Untrustworthy commissioners and nice artists becoming jerks.
11 years ago
Hello everyone. I want to tell a story of my last commission. Why do I bother? Well... why not! Anyway, let's get to the point.
On August 18th I got an unexpected note from a certain user here at FA. It was unexpected because he asked me about a possibility of a commission yet I wasn't open for commissions that time. Nevertheless I agreed. The deal was to draw a picture with two characters and a background in a painterly style which I first introduced in my artwork for Shane. I set the price for 150$ which has been accepted immediately and warned him that I would be able to start drawing the picture not sooner than two months later. As I always used to do, I decided to take the payment after I've finished the drawing. In the meantime my friend was visiting me for over a week, which was one of the reasons why I had to put off drawing the picture.
After about two months I started doing my job. He insisted on watching as I was drawing so I employed that nice skype feature to stream my screen to another user. I work pretty slowly so it took two or three weeks of irregular drawing for a couple of hours each time. If I recall correctly he hasn't asked to change anything and always said that everything was great. He was only pestering me to tell him when he could watch me drawing again. In the meantime he asked for intermediate stages of the picture. I was a bit reluctant to give him anything of good quality since it was still before the payment. He kept repeating "please trust me" again and again so I decided to take a risk and send it. It wasn't finished that time anyway.
Finally I finished the picture. He was again pestering me to show it to him and to trust him. Of course he said he would pay me once he resolve a problem with his bank. It smelled a bit fishy but the picture was finished so I couldn't save any time on drawing it anymore and again decided to take a risk. "I can't get screwed more than once anyway" - I thought. Also I was aware that over two months passed since he commissioned me so he could be short of cash. Eventually I agreed and sent him the picture and asked for payment at his earliest convenience.
He fed me the same story about his bank and how he had problems with it. That he wrote to them using traditional mail and any respons hadn't arrived yet. (Who uses traditional mail to communicate with banks today? o_O). I suggested writing an email or even going to the bank personally. I was pretty much concerned but he wasn't avoiding contact with me and informed me from time to time about the "progress" so I trustfully assumed that there might really be some problem. On November he said that he hadn't had the money yet. I asked him when would he gonna have it and he asked for a deadline for payment. I am usually a nice guy so since he didn't have money that time he wouldn't have them next day, so I set the deadline for 31 Dec 2014. A full month to collect the agreed amount. In the middle of that month he came to me to inform me about... things. Just read (he pretty often repeated his messages if I hadn't replied for more than 2 minutes but I pasted them here only once. Sometimes I concatenate a few consecutive message of the same person into one).
7 Dec 2014
Him: Hiiiiiiiii (hug)
Rezzy: hello
Him: I have received a message from my bank and my bank told me that I will receive my money next week, but I do not know what day, okay?
Rezzy: fine, that's ok
Him: I go send you a message when I received my money, okay?
Rezzy: very well... don't worry about that too much... as long as you are honest with me, it's ok :)
Him: Ok ;)
(plus some more irrelevant chit-chat)
8 Dec 2014
Him: The drawing at a little problem
Rezzy: what do you mean? I don't understand
Him: the areas in the black circles should more white and the pawpads of character of my friend are a pinkish color. You can adjust this, please?
Him: You can adjust this?
Him: You is here?
Him: You can adjust this?
Him: Please ;(
Rezzy: I could, a bit at least. I will improve the whiteness but not too much.
Him: OK, you adjust this when?
Rezzy: after you pay I'll do the adjustments and draw that bust I promised [I even promised him to draw a free bust for long waiting]
Rezzy: but it won't be a problem... fortunately the fixes won't need me to redraw things... just improve colors a bit
Him: You go adjust this after the payment?
Rezzy: yes. you said next week [for the payment] so it shouldn't be that long :). don't worry I'll do it.
Him: OK, great (hug) (heart)
Him: I'm tired (yawn)
Him: Well, I'm leaving, goodbye, see you tomorrow my friend (heart) (hug) (heart) (hug)
(plus bye bye and stuff)
13 Dec 2014
Him: I go connect me Monday because Saturday and Sunday I'm very very very busy. Okay?
Rezzy: I don't mind... but start thinking about the payment... you said this week you would resolve the problem
Rezzy: so I hope you'll be ready with everything next week
Him: Oh yeah, my problem is soon resolve, okay?
Rezzy: I hope so... initially you told me you would do it in a week... currently it's like a month... I might be willing to wait some more but not another month... better fix it before the end of this year
Him: Yes, trust me
Rezzy: trust is earned, not granted... so maybe I will... I trusted you more than most people would.
Him: See you soon (Monday), okay?
Rezzy: ok, sleep well
15 Dec 2014
Him: Hiiiiiiiiiii ^_^
Rezzy: hello
(little chit-chat here)
Him: My problem is solve (happy) I go received my money this week (I hope), but I don't know what, okay?
Rezzy: not okay... last week passed... you said they were gonna send you money last week
Rezzy: and I'm sure you would say the same next week
Rezzy: that the problem is solved and you'll get money next week
Rezzy: week passes after week
Rezzy: it's been almost a month. 25 days to be precise
Him: Yes, I know ;( my bank is slow, I'm sure this week
Rezzy: like I said last time... I'm waiting not longer than to the end of this month
Him: Give me a limited date for pay you, please
Rezzy: what do you mean? you want a hard deadline?
Him: You give me to what day to pay you?
Rezzy: ok... 31 Dec 2014... it's the deadline
Him: OK, I promise you of pay you
Rezzy: ok. for your own comfort I suggest you transfer it at least a few day earlier
Him: Ok ;)
(I'm tired, good bye, blahblahblah)
23 Dec 2014
Him: Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Him: I go pay you the 31 December, okay?
Rezzy: hello... okay... I will remind you in a few days... treat it as the final date, there won't be any more deadlines... I will take action immediately on 1 January 2015 if payment won't appear on my paypal...
Him: Ok ;)
Him: You'll do what action?
Rezzy: I don't want to threaten you for now... just pay and everything will be fine
Him: I want know, what action?
Rezzy: I want many things too... not always get them. Don't irritate me.
Him: Please, I want know
Rezzy: No... I want my payment... I've been waiting for almost two months... you don't need to know what I do... you only need to pay me for the work I've done... as simple as that.
Him: Ok. The 31 okay?
Rezzy: yes... 31 dec or sooner...
Him: The 31 okay?
Rezzy: yes of course
Him: Do not be angry, okay?
Rezzy: for now I'm only mildly irritated, not yet angry. It will depend on you though... Still, good luck finding another artists as patient as I am...
(bye bye and stuff)
29 Dec 2014
Rezzy: hello, I only wanted to remind you about the deadline on 31... Goodbye
Him: I know, bye
Him: I know, okay?
Rezzy: ok I said I would remind you once and I did.
Him: OK, bye
Now it's the most hilarious part. Our two last days of. Enjoy.
29 Dec 2014
Him: You have received the money?
Rezzy: sec I'll check
Rezzy: give me 10 minutes. I'm eating now
Rezzy: Ok
Rezzy: No it hasn't... When you actually send any money they will come, don't worry. Paypal is pretty reliable... again... my account is [xxxxxxx].
Rezzy: also paypal informs me with an e-mail for every transaction... so don't think I'm gonna believe you that you sent any money and I haven't gotten them...
Rezzy: don't worry you still have 3 hours left... plenty of time
Him: Wait
Rezzy: I do :D I'm all waiting XD.
Him: I have of problems with paypal, but I have another way to pay you, I can send you a postal money order (mandate cash)?
Rezzy: nope only paypal or bank transfer...
Him: Bank transfer?
Rezzy: you can choose any way you want if only money end up either on my paypal or my bank account. I can give you my bank account number... an international one
Him: OK, I want bank transfer. Please
Rezzy: ok... so do it... you still have 3 hours and 4 minutes... and no I won't wait another week...
(after a couple more of irrelevant messages I gave him the necessary info)
Him: I want do this today in my bank, but my bank is close today and tomorrow, I go send you the money the 2 January, okay?
Rezzy: do it through the internet
Rezzy: no, you do it till the midnight. sorry but you had the entire month. I don't believe you, even after next two days you won't pay me, you always wanted to cheat...
Rezzy: so either you pay to midnight or we'll talk differently. think up something, it's not my problem. you had two months to pay...
Him: I have received all my money yesterday. I prefer to do it in my bank, not on the internet, my bank is more secured
Rezzy: no, you prefer not to pay at all... that's why you waited till the end... don't worry I'm doing internet transfers for years and they are secure enough... just check everything twice...
Him: In a website?
Rezzy: just stop explaining and complaining. It's not my problem... use either paypal or your bank website. I'll check if money arrived somewhere tomorrow... so you should be happy that in fact you've got a few hours more than till midnight... but that's all. I waited to long and apprently you're not trustworthy at all. Like I said... think up something... ask friends, ask family, ask anyone to help you if you can't do it yourself
Him: I'm afraid. I'm afraid of internet. Internet is dangerous, I have miss a lot of money on internet
Rezzy: I don't care if you're afraid or not... I haven't begged you to commission me, you wanted... you agreed for the price. Today I won't respond to you anymore. I'm waiting for payment. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT IT! You had two fucking months... BYE!
Him: Bye? Why bye?
Him: I forgot the price. [I noticed he removed this message]
Rezzy: You're an ultimate idiot. If you forgot the price, how could you try transfering money to me on PayPal? What? you picked up an arbitrary amount of money? No, you never even tried to send anything... You're a fucking liar and I'll make sure you get what you deserve... I'll be waiting till tomorrow, till I wake up. Then I won't wait any longer.
Him: You make me what? I want know, please. [repeat a few dozen of times]
Him: My bank is close today, my bank is open the 2 January, I am really really serious, I have try of send you the money but I have received a message of my bank, my bank is close today and tomorrow, my bank open the 2 January at 9pm, I am really really serious, please wait the 2 January for the payment, okay?
Him: PS: sorry for my bad English, I'm french
[again two messages above a couple of times]
1 Jan 2015
Rezzy: I woke up and checked my account... I don't see your payment and I'm fed up waiting. Yes I received your emails I just didn't want to talk to you yesterday anymore. I could wait one more day for payment but the problem is I don't believe you're gonna pay me tomorrow... You had the entire month, you could have done it a week ago... or two... You haven't... so you see for yourself... Waiting for your payment is just a waste of time which normally I could spend on squeezing the cash out of you. It's much more reliable than waiting... which doesn't work in your case. I might even want to charge you more... for the delay... Banks do it too, and I'm not a bank... hahahaha... banks are nice. How can you prove that you will pay tomorrow?
Him: I'll send you a receipt. And the banks is not nice
Rezzy: I don't care about receipts... if money appers on my account... either bank account or paypay account (I'd prefer paypal) I will surely inform you. But how can you ensure me that you pay tomorrow? banks are nicer than I can be
Him: I don't like PayPal. You go see the money of your account tomorrow. If I have not pay you, you go make me what? I want know
Rezzy: ok I will wait till tomorrow, you better send money using a fast transfer. I won't be waiting next two days for the money to arrive. 150$ as we agreed... (the info about the price is in your notes at FA). And about yesterday... I can tell when you lie or not so better don't do it again. My friendly advice :). I work much better with honest people...
Him: Surprise ;) I promise.
Him: Answer at my question, please. If I have not pay you, you go make me what? Answer, please
Rezzy: You have time till tomorrow midnight in your timezone. If you don't have money... borrow it or do whatever you want. No my business... Till tomorrow... Have a nice day.
Him: You have answer at my question. I want know
2 Jan 2015
Him: I want cancel my commission. Please. Answer me, quickly
Rezzy: I'm afraid you're about 4 months late. when you buy bread you eat it and then go to a store and expect a refund?
Him: No. I want cancel my commission
Rezzy: exactly... the situation here is just the same... there's nothing to cancel... it's already done.
Him: Cancel. Please
Rezzy: you can beg me forever, I won't...
Him: I have not the money for the moment. The price is very big
Rezzy: where was your brain when you commissioned me? on vacation?
Him: Sorry for this. Please, cancel
Rezzy: sorry since you are unable to pay there are other ways to solve this problem my dear... you don't need to talk to me anymore. I will solve it myself. too bad for you
Him: How? you go make me what?
Rezzy: I have no reason to talk to you anymore. Just prepare for much more than 150$.
[after which he has been blocked]
Yes I know I was too gullible sometimes and like I promised many times I would keep my policy of taking payment after work until someone rips me off which is what happened. From now on you can expect a nice yet quite a cold guy who will take money in advance (like most artists do) and who won't draw free art for anyone (except for the requests already taken). Comparing to how I used to be it will be a big change. Of course trustworthy commissioners don't need to worry about anything. I will just be more careful and not trust you. That's all ^_^. And no... your trust that I won't rip you off is not the same as my trust that you pay. I need to care about my good name. If you I start cheating you it will be my end. You don't have the same problem. I will post my new commission info later today I guess...
And one more thing. I tend to believe people because I hate assuming that they are bad, untrustworthy or something. But I HATE lack of honesty. I hate it really much. It's the easiest way to piss me off. So if you want to think up some excuse, consider telling the truth. It's more likely that I praise honesty than condemn it. And one thing I hate too... Lack of logic in arguments. If you explain something to me, better make sure that your statement doesn't contradict the previous ones. I'm perhaps not a master of it but I can use it. Don't assume otherwise.
I have ideas and plans for consequences for that guy but if you have any others, do share. The more ideas the better :D.
On August 18th I got an unexpected note from a certain user here at FA. It was unexpected because he asked me about a possibility of a commission yet I wasn't open for commissions that time. Nevertheless I agreed. The deal was to draw a picture with two characters and a background in a painterly style which I first introduced in my artwork for Shane. I set the price for 150$ which has been accepted immediately and warned him that I would be able to start drawing the picture not sooner than two months later. As I always used to do, I decided to take the payment after I've finished the drawing. In the meantime my friend was visiting me for over a week, which was one of the reasons why I had to put off drawing the picture.
After about two months I started doing my job. He insisted on watching as I was drawing so I employed that nice skype feature to stream my screen to another user. I work pretty slowly so it took two or three weeks of irregular drawing for a couple of hours each time. If I recall correctly he hasn't asked to change anything and always said that everything was great. He was only pestering me to tell him when he could watch me drawing again. In the meantime he asked for intermediate stages of the picture. I was a bit reluctant to give him anything of good quality since it was still before the payment. He kept repeating "please trust me" again and again so I decided to take a risk and send it. It wasn't finished that time anyway.
Finally I finished the picture. He was again pestering me to show it to him and to trust him. Of course he said he would pay me once he resolve a problem with his bank. It smelled a bit fishy but the picture was finished so I couldn't save any time on drawing it anymore and again decided to take a risk. "I can't get screwed more than once anyway" - I thought. Also I was aware that over two months passed since he commissioned me so he could be short of cash. Eventually I agreed and sent him the picture and asked for payment at his earliest convenience.
He fed me the same story about his bank and how he had problems with it. That he wrote to them using traditional mail and any respons hadn't arrived yet. (Who uses traditional mail to communicate with banks today? o_O). I suggested writing an email or even going to the bank personally. I was pretty much concerned but he wasn't avoiding contact with me and informed me from time to time about the "progress" so I trustfully assumed that there might really be some problem. On November he said that he hadn't had the money yet. I asked him when would he gonna have it and he asked for a deadline for payment. I am usually a nice guy so since he didn't have money that time he wouldn't have them next day, so I set the deadline for 31 Dec 2014. A full month to collect the agreed amount. In the middle of that month he came to me to inform me about... things. Just read (he pretty often repeated his messages if I hadn't replied for more than 2 minutes but I pasted them here only once. Sometimes I concatenate a few consecutive message of the same person into one).
7 Dec 2014
Him: Hiiiiiiiii (hug)
Rezzy: hello
Him: I have received a message from my bank and my bank told me that I will receive my money next week, but I do not know what day, okay?
Rezzy: fine, that's ok
Him: I go send you a message when I received my money, okay?
Rezzy: very well... don't worry about that too much... as long as you are honest with me, it's ok :)
Him: Ok ;)
(plus some more irrelevant chit-chat)
8 Dec 2014
Him: The drawing at a little problem
Rezzy: what do you mean? I don't understand
Him: the areas in the black circles should more white and the pawpads of character of my friend are a pinkish color. You can adjust this, please?
Him: You can adjust this?
Him: You is here?
Him: You can adjust this?
Him: Please ;(
Rezzy: I could, a bit at least. I will improve the whiteness but not too much.
Him: OK, you adjust this when?
Rezzy: after you pay I'll do the adjustments and draw that bust I promised [I even promised him to draw a free bust for long waiting]
Rezzy: but it won't be a problem... fortunately the fixes won't need me to redraw things... just improve colors a bit
Him: You go adjust this after the payment?
Rezzy: yes. you said next week [for the payment] so it shouldn't be that long :). don't worry I'll do it.
Him: OK, great (hug) (heart)
Him: I'm tired (yawn)
Him: Well, I'm leaving, goodbye, see you tomorrow my friend (heart) (hug) (heart) (hug)
(plus bye bye and stuff)
13 Dec 2014
Him: I go connect me Monday because Saturday and Sunday I'm very very very busy. Okay?
Rezzy: I don't mind... but start thinking about the payment... you said this week you would resolve the problem
Rezzy: so I hope you'll be ready with everything next week
Him: Oh yeah, my problem is soon resolve, okay?
Rezzy: I hope so... initially you told me you would do it in a week... currently it's like a month... I might be willing to wait some more but not another month... better fix it before the end of this year
Him: Yes, trust me
Rezzy: trust is earned, not granted... so maybe I will... I trusted you more than most people would.
Him: See you soon (Monday), okay?
Rezzy: ok, sleep well
15 Dec 2014
Him: Hiiiiiiiiiii ^_^
Rezzy: hello
(little chit-chat here)
Him: My problem is solve (happy) I go received my money this week (I hope), but I don't know what, okay?
Rezzy: not okay... last week passed... you said they were gonna send you money last week
Rezzy: and I'm sure you would say the same next week
Rezzy: that the problem is solved and you'll get money next week
Rezzy: week passes after week
Rezzy: it's been almost a month. 25 days to be precise
Him: Yes, I know ;( my bank is slow, I'm sure this week
Rezzy: like I said last time... I'm waiting not longer than to the end of this month
Him: Give me a limited date for pay you, please
Rezzy: what do you mean? you want a hard deadline?
Him: You give me to what day to pay you?
Rezzy: ok... 31 Dec 2014... it's the deadline
Him: OK, I promise you of pay you
Rezzy: ok. for your own comfort I suggest you transfer it at least a few day earlier
Him: Ok ;)
(I'm tired, good bye, blahblahblah)
23 Dec 2014
Him: Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Him: I go pay you the 31 December, okay?
Rezzy: hello... okay... I will remind you in a few days... treat it as the final date, there won't be any more deadlines... I will take action immediately on 1 January 2015 if payment won't appear on my paypal...
Him: Ok ;)
Him: You'll do what action?
Rezzy: I don't want to threaten you for now... just pay and everything will be fine
Him: I want know, what action?
Rezzy: I want many things too... not always get them. Don't irritate me.
Him: Please, I want know
Rezzy: No... I want my payment... I've been waiting for almost two months... you don't need to know what I do... you only need to pay me for the work I've done... as simple as that.
Him: Ok. The 31 okay?
Rezzy: yes... 31 dec or sooner...
Him: The 31 okay?
Rezzy: yes of course
Him: Do not be angry, okay?
Rezzy: for now I'm only mildly irritated, not yet angry. It will depend on you though... Still, good luck finding another artists as patient as I am...
(bye bye and stuff)
29 Dec 2014
Rezzy: hello, I only wanted to remind you about the deadline on 31... Goodbye
Him: I know, bye
Him: I know, okay?
Rezzy: ok I said I would remind you once and I did.
Him: OK, bye
Now it's the most hilarious part. Our two last days of. Enjoy.
29 Dec 2014
Him: You have received the money?
Rezzy: sec I'll check
Rezzy: give me 10 minutes. I'm eating now
Rezzy: Ok
Rezzy: No it hasn't... When you actually send any money they will come, don't worry. Paypal is pretty reliable... again... my account is [xxxxxxx].
Rezzy: also paypal informs me with an e-mail for every transaction... so don't think I'm gonna believe you that you sent any money and I haven't gotten them...
Rezzy: don't worry you still have 3 hours left... plenty of time
Him: Wait
Rezzy: I do :D I'm all waiting XD.
Him: I have of problems with paypal, but I have another way to pay you, I can send you a postal money order (mandate cash)?
Rezzy: nope only paypal or bank transfer...
Him: Bank transfer?
Rezzy: you can choose any way you want if only money end up either on my paypal or my bank account. I can give you my bank account number... an international one
Him: OK, I want bank transfer. Please
Rezzy: ok... so do it... you still have 3 hours and 4 minutes... and no I won't wait another week...
(after a couple more of irrelevant messages I gave him the necessary info)
Him: I want do this today in my bank, but my bank is close today and tomorrow, I go send you the money the 2 January, okay?
Rezzy: do it through the internet
Rezzy: no, you do it till the midnight. sorry but you had the entire month. I don't believe you, even after next two days you won't pay me, you always wanted to cheat...
Rezzy: so either you pay to midnight or we'll talk differently. think up something, it's not my problem. you had two months to pay...
Him: I have received all my money yesterday. I prefer to do it in my bank, not on the internet, my bank is more secured
Rezzy: no, you prefer not to pay at all... that's why you waited till the end... don't worry I'm doing internet transfers for years and they are secure enough... just check everything twice...
Him: In a website?
Rezzy: just stop explaining and complaining. It's not my problem... use either paypal or your bank website. I'll check if money arrived somewhere tomorrow... so you should be happy that in fact you've got a few hours more than till midnight... but that's all. I waited to long and apprently you're not trustworthy at all. Like I said... think up something... ask friends, ask family, ask anyone to help you if you can't do it yourself
Him: I'm afraid. I'm afraid of internet. Internet is dangerous, I have miss a lot of money on internet
Rezzy: I don't care if you're afraid or not... I haven't begged you to commission me, you wanted... you agreed for the price. Today I won't respond to you anymore. I'm waiting for payment. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT IT! You had two fucking months... BYE!
Him: Bye? Why bye?
Him: I forgot the price. [I noticed he removed this message]
Rezzy: You're an ultimate idiot. If you forgot the price, how could you try transfering money to me on PayPal? What? you picked up an arbitrary amount of money? No, you never even tried to send anything... You're a fucking liar and I'll make sure you get what you deserve... I'll be waiting till tomorrow, till I wake up. Then I won't wait any longer.
Him: You make me what? I want know, please. [repeat a few dozen of times]
Him: My bank is close today, my bank is open the 2 January, I am really really serious, I have try of send you the money but I have received a message of my bank, my bank is close today and tomorrow, my bank open the 2 January at 9pm, I am really really serious, please wait the 2 January for the payment, okay?
Him: PS: sorry for my bad English, I'm french
[again two messages above a couple of times]
1 Jan 2015
Rezzy: I woke up and checked my account... I don't see your payment and I'm fed up waiting. Yes I received your emails I just didn't want to talk to you yesterday anymore. I could wait one more day for payment but the problem is I don't believe you're gonna pay me tomorrow... You had the entire month, you could have done it a week ago... or two... You haven't... so you see for yourself... Waiting for your payment is just a waste of time which normally I could spend on squeezing the cash out of you. It's much more reliable than waiting... which doesn't work in your case. I might even want to charge you more... for the delay... Banks do it too, and I'm not a bank... hahahaha... banks are nice. How can you prove that you will pay tomorrow?
Him: I'll send you a receipt. And the banks is not nice
Rezzy: I don't care about receipts... if money appers on my account... either bank account or paypay account (I'd prefer paypal) I will surely inform you. But how can you ensure me that you pay tomorrow? banks are nicer than I can be
Him: I don't like PayPal. You go see the money of your account tomorrow. If I have not pay you, you go make me what? I want know
Rezzy: ok I will wait till tomorrow, you better send money using a fast transfer. I won't be waiting next two days for the money to arrive. 150$ as we agreed... (the info about the price is in your notes at FA). And about yesterday... I can tell when you lie or not so better don't do it again. My friendly advice :). I work much better with honest people...
Him: Surprise ;) I promise.
Him: Answer at my question, please. If I have not pay you, you go make me what? Answer, please
Rezzy: You have time till tomorrow midnight in your timezone. If you don't have money... borrow it or do whatever you want. No my business... Till tomorrow... Have a nice day.
Him: You have answer at my question. I want know
2 Jan 2015
Him: I want cancel my commission. Please. Answer me, quickly
Rezzy: I'm afraid you're about 4 months late. when you buy bread you eat it and then go to a store and expect a refund?
Him: No. I want cancel my commission
Rezzy: exactly... the situation here is just the same... there's nothing to cancel... it's already done.
Him: Cancel. Please
Rezzy: you can beg me forever, I won't...
Him: I have not the money for the moment. The price is very big
Rezzy: where was your brain when you commissioned me? on vacation?
Him: Sorry for this. Please, cancel
Rezzy: sorry since you are unable to pay there are other ways to solve this problem my dear... you don't need to talk to me anymore. I will solve it myself. too bad for you
Him: How? you go make me what?
Rezzy: I have no reason to talk to you anymore. Just prepare for much more than 150$.
[after which he has been blocked]
Yes I know I was too gullible sometimes and like I promised many times I would keep my policy of taking payment after work until someone rips me off which is what happened. From now on you can expect a nice yet quite a cold guy who will take money in advance (like most artists do) and who won't draw free art for anyone (except for the requests already taken). Comparing to how I used to be it will be a big change. Of course trustworthy commissioners don't need to worry about anything. I will just be more careful and not trust you. That's all ^_^. And no... your trust that I won't rip you off is not the same as my trust that you pay. I need to care about my good name. If you I start cheating you it will be my end. You don't have the same problem. I will post my new commission info later today I guess...
And one more thing. I tend to believe people because I hate assuming that they are bad, untrustworthy or something. But I HATE lack of honesty. I hate it really much. It's the easiest way to piss me off. So if you want to think up some excuse, consider telling the truth. It's more likely that I praise honesty than condemn it. And one thing I hate too... Lack of logic in arguments. If you explain something to me, better make sure that your statement doesn't contradict the previous ones. I'm perhaps not a master of it but I can use it. Don't assume otherwise.
I have ideas and plans for consequences for that guy but if you have any others, do share. The more ideas the better :D.
Hate to see that happened to you!
PS: I know I haven't started your picture yet but don't worry I haven't forgot and all people who up to this date asked me for a request in my old journal will get it. Actually almost all of them. I will just pick one up from time to time and draw it when I feel up to it :). I know I haven't had to bring that up but I just wanted to use the opportunity you commented here :).
In any case, I really REALLY hope all this nonsense works out well for you in the long run! 80
If you don't have a job and reliant on money, buying video games or buying art is the last thing you'd want to do. Honestly, you are doing him a favor by allowing him to keep his money.
Even so, he seemed really happen about you making him something and was clearly aiming for free art. One of THOSE guys, clearly no money so he tries to leech whatever he can.
Furries man :\
I'm not sure to call him rude and childish or that is just his broken English. Regardless, he's poison to the furry community.
Honesty doesn't nearly bother me as much as trying to steal.
You know no money and leeching... Ok but it's quite different when he hears the price and accept it. If he cancelled his commmission even just after I started coloring it, I could swallow it but now I won't. Now I need to bring punishment on him one way or another. And that's not for me... It's not that my life depends on this money. It's just because such people have to be punished because they won't learn otherwise. I always believe that when someone does something wrong others shouldn't help him. He should face the consequences himself. It's the best teacher. Once it hurts, you won't do it again. It's like putting your finger into a boiling water. Unless you're a masochist you do it only once.
You know... even if he said "Sorry I spent everything on bitches, beer and computer games. Let me pay you next month ok?" perhaps would work much better. But now it's too late.
This could go one of two ways, he comes to an understanding and pays you eventually or he could just ignore you.
As much as his behavior should be punished, approach with caution in mind. The guy acts like a child, expect him to behave like one.
Although I'd advise against spending so much time getting vengeance against a man child. Obviously broke, bored and has no job, if anything he'd desire such attention, even if it is negative.
If he was trying to steal art and run away, he could easily skip phase 1 of his plan. Seriously though, as bothersome as it is, just recall how pathetic the guy is. I had a problem with a cuntboy Lynx and an copyrighted Bangaa trying to be funny, out of my anger, I looked into their profiles for ammo against them. After going through a bunch of information I had to stop and ask myself, what am I doing? What do I have to prove? These guys are just... Lame, their lives are just lame. In the end, I pitied the furs that caused me trouble, grown men with nothing to their names desperate for attention. It would be like proving to a bunch of highschoolers :\
Take it from my experience, you cannot teach those that refuse to learn. Just let it go. Don't keep trying, let the lame wither.
I know I am 5 years late to this party, but... I sense a kindred spirit in you when you said this. It immediately triggered amusement, agreement, and the general impression you value extremely highly being told the truth- even when it's infuriating.
I really really REALLY hope you dont pick up anymore scumbags like that person in the journal....holy crap. @.@
Thank you :). I hope too. Of course I won't become a jerk just because of this situation since despite being a choleriac I'm a pretty friendly guy but I will certainly not trust my commissioners as I had before. Well I'm nice and understanding but under certain conditions also revengeful ^_^''.
Should post to Artists Beware.
BUT I do hope he'll find a way to surprise you by paying you in the next few days.
I'm so sorry this happened.
About the artist taking commissions and delivering after 2 years... Well it's their fault unless it's yours (ie. lack of contact). They should use upfront payments just as insurance and do not touch these money before they finish their job. It is there but waiting either for their job done or a refund.
There is another pay in full up front option that I might consider, and that is holding the money in escrow. This his how many real estate transactions occur. The money is paid to and held by a third party, usually the bank that makes the loan, and released by the bank on a schedule. If you're getting a house remodeled, for example, the bank will pay the contractor a percentage at the start of the project, and then additional amounts as the county engineer signs off on parts of the project. Meanwhile, you as the homeowner, pay the bank...
I've pondered setting up such a service for artists and commissioners.
That man-in-the-middle thing you mentioned is a nice idea. I've seen something like that too. My friend gave me a link: https://artistsnclients.com/ Sadly this incurs some additional fees for either a commissioner or the artist. Of course it's understandable since such a website needs money to run. The website I liked to has one major drawback though. You open slots there and people buy them. I'd prefer something that doesn't require opening a slot. Just the commissioner and the artist open a controlled transaction.
The other thing that upsets me about artists is their prices being too low.
My ride is here so I need to go to work. Hopefully, I'll remember to tell you more later.
Artists have to eat, have to buy new supplies, even if it is an electric bill these days rather than paints and canvases. These things cost money, but so few good artists actually charge for them, plus the overhead of keeping a roof over head.
I do like lower prices, as a consumer, obviously, but I know there are reasons for higher prices. I don't mind paying higher prices to artists I like, just that commissioning will have to be less frequent. But, yes. Artists not charging enough makes me sad.
I will tell you on my example, though my prices aren't low anymore. First if I wanted to charge depending on how much time I spend on art they would all cost like 300$ or more XD. I'm aware it's insane because it's my fault. I do an art in 30 hours for which another artist would spend 10 or 5. Another thing, being aware of mistakes makes me feel quilty so I sometimes prefer to take less or lower the price.
Finally what criteria should we all use to set up prices? The are some possibilities:
1) Quality - unfortunately it's subjective and some people might say it's perfect, others will see only errors. Some people spend hours to create even a shitty picture. Of course you can say that since a commissioner wants a picture from a particular artist that means he likes the quality but still it's not 100% fair.
2) Popularity of the artist - but what if a popular artists creates a picture in 20 minutes and full of errors (about which most people just don't care though). Is it worth more than a perfect picture made by a highly skilled artist who is not popular yet?
3) Time spent - but some artists are faster and they can draw much better art in much shorter time. Should they charge less than others for pictures of worse quality who need more time to draw them?
4) Self-confidence - some perhaps do but most of us don't feel that much special. In my case for example I had to learn to take money from people. It took years because more or less till I hit 20 I was reluctant to take any payment for anything. I always felt that my skils are worth nothing. That I shouldn't charge for teaching people because I'm not a qualified teacher and don't know everything (yes I have a vision of a perfect teacher who knows almost everything about his field). Also I shouldn't charge for art because I'm not a qualified artist and my pictures are full of errors. For many years I felt literally too inexperienced to take money even when I clearly saw that others with less skills than I took money for them.
5) Demand - one could be an utter capitalist and increase the price until the rate of commissions be in balance with one's work schedule. No need to have more commissioners than you can handle. But is it really fair?
Also I noticed that from some time YCHs are very popular. Many artists take them. Some of them are pretty fine but some others are clearly aimed at gathering as much money as possible. Like 20 char orgies. So many that one actually covers half of another. Sometimes they are not even detailed so it's not quite fair to charge 100$ for an upper torso of low detailed character placed somewhere deep in the background. Of course people want to pay for it so it's ok but still doesn't feel quite fair.
Of course to wisely set the prices we should take into account all the mentioned aspects and weight them appropriately. What are the appropriate weights though? Also it's hard to use mathematics when it comes to something so subjective as beauty or quality or even popularity is not easily measured. It doesn't depend linearly on the number of watchers :). It's so many questions. I know one thing, no matter what the prices will be there will always be some unsatisfied people. Well... unless you draw for free but then some other artists might be pissed that you're are an unfair competitor. If the prices are too high people start ranting and showing you how shitty artist you are and you shouldn't charge that much. Should we listen to them or not? I still don't have strong opinion on these matters.
Some good points here. Hopefully I can remember to get back to you.
If you are still a little hesistant on taking payment upfront, Ive had a lot of artists do like a 50/50, where 50% upfront and 50% after approval of sketch/ink before color etc.
About taking money after and not sending images before... There's one problem here. You need to show them the progress and sometimes shrinking the picture is not enough because you hide too many details which are sometimes important. If the picture is a bit too big they might be sufficiently satisfied with that and not pay either way. If you send an image of too low quality with, for example, visible JPEG artifacts it might hide important features and it won't work too. The same with obnoxious watermarking. Too little of it and it's easy to remove, too much and you don't see anything.
Never let "product" walk out the door without payment unless you're willing to risk losing it.
Payment in advance is fine as long as -YOU- remain trustworthy, If you do, you as a business will have a good rating because multiple people will be able to vouch for you. Random commissioners will not have such generally. At the same time, you -MUST- remain 100% on the up and up. No "Hey, if I owe you a commission, let me know!" That translates to "I have a bunch of money from people and I'm hoping they forget" at the worst and "My record-keeping skills are atrocious and I should not be trusted with your money" at the very least. If you maintain 100% reliability, you're set.
Another has confided in me that she does so for that purpose because it helps her cull her commissions list.
From my standpoint as a person who gives hundreds to artists, I should not have to sit staring at their account and hope to not miss a "Hey!" titled journal that asks commissioners to re-contact or lose their commission. I keep one simple records set: This person has my money and I expect something by x time or I contest the charge for non-delivery. If their wait list is longer than half the contest time, then I do not commission them. If they lost track of the fact that I paid them and thus don't do the work, I can't be their keeper as a business person. I'll still contact them at the agreed-upon time and inquire, but if I receive an excuse, I'll generally get my money back.
It's sad, the bad people make the good people look bad. There should be like a Better Artists' Bureau instead of a BBB for this kind of stuff. Artists get screwed by bad commissioners, but some commissioners get screwed by bad artists.
You are absolutely right. Honestly you could even sue such an artist. The agreement is binding... artists should be happy that most commissioners are pretty patient and not rip them off like that. I would be ultimately pissed. You can compare this to a situation when you pay for a new product... let's say a microwave oven then you're said that you'll receive it in a week and then you never get it unless you ask for it explicitly or start arguing why haven't they sent you the package. It's simply ridiculous.
I think as long as an artist doesn't get an insane number of commissions your nickname should always ring the bell even if they lost the file with commissions. Anyway it's their responsibility to backup the list. Nowadays people get fucking excited about storing files in clouds yet they can't back their files up in one? Yeah... right. Also I notice that artists constantly have problems with computers with hard drive failures and so on. I rarely have any hardware problems... well technically I'm a computer scientist but still that doesn't mean hardware will always work for me. Anyway it must be either an excuse or some of them are just dumb and don't learn from experience.
Yeah I never said artists are saint and I heard many stories about people who have paid but haven't received their images. It rarely happens that artists don't get paid since most take money in advance. Thanks for sharing :)
Thank you for being a responsible and reliable human being. ^.^ It's not as common these days as it should be.
This guy, though....the fact that he stayed around so long after getting the finished image really does make me wonder if he wasn't a scammer and was just the most incompetent human being in the entire world. I really don't understand what his game plan was here XD
As a commissioner, I really think the 50/50 or pay halfway through payment methods are superior to paying all up front or all when finished. It requires both parties to trust equally instead of laying it all on a single party. I once had an artist finish a picture for me, send it to me, and then never actually ask for payment. I guess they forgot? I felt super awkward reminding them to take my money a few days after when I realized. I would have preferred they used a different payment system XD
I don't get his motivations too. Maybe he wanted to postpone the inevitable? Still waiting longer wouldn't do any good. If you wish to pay, you do it. If I were in his position I would borrow from my family or from my friends or something. Unless they wouldn't want to lend me any money XD.
Well you found a weird artist XD. It's quite common they take money without drawing a picture but I haven't heard about drawing it and forgetting to take the payment XD. You found an oddity amongst the artists :D. A very special specimen :D.
Also - "please trust me!". Should have told him "Bitch, I don't even know you!".
If not I'd prefer 50/50. Especially after I got scammed by some russian artists here on FA, I just don't trust those anymore.
I know only a few popular russian artists here but better not to use any nicknames here :).
Oh and the russian ones I'm talking about aren't very well known, no popufur at all XD.
Also, I wonder how long will it take till I get fucked over. Lets hope it'll take longer than it did for you. :D
This is why a down-payment upfront is a good strategy. And once you've finished, get the rest of the money before you send them the image.
I'm imagining this guy to resembles Hervé Villechaize. XD
"I forgot the price." He said that when? lol!
I think you have been talking with a small kid or with sly cheater. This is crazy. I cannot imagine the stress you have been gone through. Very bad.
He said "I forgot the price" after an attempt to pay me via paypal according to what he said earlier. For me it sounds like "Oh! But I really DID try to send a money transfer... I really did. But... again, what was the price?" XD.
No matter if it was a kid or cheater. If it was a kid that still doesn't explain him, if a cheater, it's even worse. Anyway it's hard to determine whether someone is a child or not. Especially for non native-speakers. Their english is pretty often terrible and since it's really common for furries to talk childishly like "*gropes and nuzzles* NYAAA NYAAA!" and so on then it's not a good measure of one's age.
Please consider showing us who is that scoundrel. He won't see any positive comment under stolen artwork anywhere on internet.
And if you have trouble because of this situation we can refund the money as your fans. I don't sleep on money but I can pay you $5 or $10. I assume I not alone here so you will collect full amount in no time. However I am not feeling like it to let the buddy go and enjoy the stolen piece of yours. You will have to tell us who they are.
I would love to tell who he is but I simply can't. It's against the FA rules and since I'm a user of this portal like anyone else I need to obey these rules to stay here. I should be even thankful I can be here since this portal is actually free to use. If someone asks me who he is in private I will tell though. Just I hope no one will spam his account with crap. There are better methods to deal with such people.
No I don't have any trouble. Also even if I have any fans they are not responsible for that and I can't and won't take money from them. It would be just unfair. It was my mistake to trust that person and it's a lesson I need to learn from. That's all :).
I'm grateful for your support my dear :D.
PS: I assume you're writing in english just for convenience of other users not because you don't know I'm a pole? XD