I know I'm going to get flack from people who don't know me, but I appreciate that you're not one of them. I've said this on Skype, so it's not really anything new for you, but it's a final word from me on the subject here.

I'm going to continue watching this page for as long as it lasts but I have no plans to watch the new one.

I appreciate that you are a good friend, and that I've been able to talk to you about things that many people would just judge me negatively about but you don't--and I still plan to keep you as a Skype contact. I cherish our friendship and support you, and I appreciate your talent in music and your piety towards your people, and I want to be a good friend back--but I don't support this decision, only because I don't agree with you that the two are the same thing, and I wouldn't consider it being a good friend to support it.

But that also means I won't say provocative things on that profile either, I'm just going to stay away from it. I know you're convicted on this and I respect your free will, I'm just going to choose not to go along with it.

God be with you in all you do.

A private message would have been more tasteful

Maybe you're right, I don't know--but I already said the above on Skype, and I was trying not to be antagonistic. I consider juniper a friend and don't want antipathy between us.

Thank you for being civil about it, I appreciate that. God bless you.

While I can't speak for Tonya specifically, I can tell you that this sort of thing, especially continuing to insist on doing this sort of thing, is very emotionally harmful to trans people, and thus very probably to her.

I just came out yesterday to a very conservative, very Christian friend, and was very scared to do so, as I've heard them denigrate trans people before. I wrote a fairly lengthy piece explaining not only my personal feelings, but the known biology and psychology involved, something that is actually very easy to look up, but that most people won't bother to do. Their response was that they supported anything that made me feel more myself, and that they wanted me to be happy enough that we could see more of each other, because they worked out that the associated depression and anxiety were making me hide. They instantly got that it wasn't about them.

Our situations have nothing to do with your religion. Nothing whatsoever. your opinions do not trump the medical science involved or our personal identities. Pushing against the medical science is simple denial, assuming you've read the literature.

Pushing against our identities, although you surely don't consciously intend it as such, is an attempt to belittle us as people, to put your emotions ahead of ours concerning our own lives. Saying you won't do it anymore *still* comes across as one more personal attack, a chance at a final jab.

I'm not understating things when I say that it's an emotional slap in the face to trans people every time you speak the way you have been.

"Not knowing you" has nothing to do with this, because IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.

I don't want to harm anyone emotionally, but that isn't the be-all and end-all of things.

It's not the end-all, be-all. It's merely the most important part when no one is harmed by giving a person respect.

I don't want anyone to act just to please me

It's not about you and your wishes, it's about those of the people with whom you're interacting. Throughout the medical community and the blogosphere, the conclusions and opinions are so close to unanimous as to be no different: this does harm.

Apart from that: Yes you do want people to please you and affirm your identity. You want to be referred to by your preferred name and gender pronouns.

It isn't Christian to denigrate people.

That's a whole other argument not worth getting into here, so I deleted a mini-rant.

I have a background in biology and this doesn't fit.

Then you aren't familiar with epigenetics. It absolutely does fit. Some people are gay or trans for approximately the same reason that some people are left-handed: developmental variation in utero owing to atypical hormone levels affecting gene expression. Not coincidentally, being left-handed has a much stronger correlation with having an atypical sexual orientation or identity, as well as with some subtle physical features. It all relates, and all of biology and psychology is behind it.

Also not coincidentally, left-handed people have been stigmatized for centuries. The word sinister refers to being left-handed, while dextrous originally meant right-handed. At least as late as 1980, left-handed children were still being forced to use their right hands, with results such as lifelong insecurity, learning disabilities, and stutters. (Guess how I know this...) Attacks on LGBT+ peoples' identities cause far more harm than that; just ask Leelah Alcorn.

Please don't tell me what is a slap in the face and what is not.

That's not up to you here. It's up to Tonya, and the statistics suggest that it feels just like that to her. (Even if it doesn't, when you make public comments, it affects all of us.)

I have gender identity disorder myself, and it's frustrating to me.

It sucks, and I wouldn't trade it away. it gives me a unique perspective on the world. Trans people tend to have greater emotional intelligence, higher IQs, and increased perception. It handily makes up for my Aspergers. The frustrating parts are society's treatment of trans people, and not being able to transition early, which is the only therapy that works, because it's a physical disorder; the brain works fine. The only actual harms to trans people all come from outside sources: shame, guilt, judgment, lack of empathy (even intellectual empathy). You don't appear to believe so, but this is the sort of thing that your comments will invoke in people.

Because it's a physical disorder, the DMC-5, the American Psychiatric Association's primary diagnostic tool, now lists it as Gender Dysphoria. This is *important*. Calling trans people "disordered" is another gut-punch to their confidence, and thus their ability to function. The relatively new name and description demonstrates that the APA recognizes the problem: the body is out of sync, and the person suffers depression, anxiety and more from the combination of that and social disapproval. People who transition, especially EARLY, tend to do quite well. Those who don't... well, that's where we get the 41% attempted suicide rate from.

Judging trans people adds to that 41% rate, nine times the national average. That you have gender identity difficulties (I won't call you trans unless you do, except by accident) doesn't change that. There are lots of self-hating gay and bi people who do harm to other gay and bi people.

If you want me not to put my emotions ahead of yours concerning your life, please set the example and don't put yours ahead of mine concerning my life.

I did not do that. This isn't about your life. It's about how you speak to other people and the effect it has on them, which is much more negative than you realize.

Below is a quote from Neil Carter's blog. It was specifically about the treatment of atheists, but I feel it's appropriate here:

This is not love. You cannot love people while ignoring everything they tell you about themselves. You are not loving people when you refuse to listen to their stories. You are not loving them well when you decide before hearing them that you already know all that you need to know about them, overruling their own self-descriptions and self-identifications because you are convinced you know better than they do what’s going on inside of them. When you continually speak of people in terms to which they cannot agree, you are not showing them respect or validating them as real people. This... represents a grievous failure to love people like me... If you say you are to be known by how you love, then this should upset you. The words may be there, but the thing your words promise is not.

I think it's more than a little...cruel...to publicly declare that you "wouldn't consider it being a good friend to support [your friend realizing her true identity]." I think you should reconsider and think about just how hurtful this is from someone claimed as a friend. It's about as bad as if it came from parents.

This isn't even about you in that sense, it's about actual basic respect of relating to a friend as she wishes to be related to.

I don't believe you are a troll. I believe that you're being hurtful because you are someone professed to be a friend, and thus someone who is cared about. And you are denying your friend's identity.

But fine, I'll leave you be. The reason I posted is that I want you to see that your words do hurt. I felt the need to respond to you publicly because you are publicly demeaning and ignoring her self-identity. If you had done this in private I wouldn't have known about it.

Because doing something like this is cruel. At best, it's at least incredibly gauche. Because the whole thing is predicated upon respect; you refer to someone as they wish to be referred to, because that's basic human decency.

This is why, as you have indicated above that you identify as male, and you wish to be referred to with male pronouns, I would do so because I would have basic decency and respect for your identity.

This is a very important journey, one that's fraught with many perils. But it is for a greater purpose, and I will do my best to aid you in it, Tonya.