That's what I call terrible.

i have to agree with Fara. We're terrible when it comes to overkill. Honestly, why would you (context-sensetive) need a semi-automatic rifle to go deer hunting???? Even in my books, most of the storyline is devoid of any projectile weapons on the part of the main characters and when i do introduce an actual weapon later its a little sidearm for backup purposes only. We do everything big here...and that's the problem.

if you walk into the gun shops in the Grand Theft Auto games (AmmuNation) there's a radio playing constant AmmuNation adverts and statements and things. One of them goes something like "try every sportman's favourite: than anti-tank missile - you don't need to clean the deer when he's already been minced!"

gyerg...that was the one example of video gaming that i've never really cared for. I worked at a gaming boutique for one christmas and it was horribly depressing the number of grandparents/aunts (usually women actually) would come in with lists clearly written by early primary school students (ages 9-12) with that scribbly look to it listing GTA as their top "want" that year and the poor woman would have no idea what it actually was. Even worse was when even if they knew what it was, they'd still buy it for them. I even had some parents do this even after i'd explained (as i was legally obligated to) the rating system and how this was equivalent to them taking the kids to an NC-17 film. Having someone there to "explain" the content to the kid does jack-diddly-squat, especially since its an interactive format. That's why it burns me up so much when the parents associations flare up on the issue. They always make this huge fuss over "keeping these games out of our kids' hands" but THEY'RE usually responsible for it! It's ILLEGAL to sell an M-rated game to an underage individual! I'm not sure why though, but the kid can simply hand the game to a guardian/relative who IS overage and they can buy it for them. It's horribly frustrating to watch this and not be able to do anything short of breaching etiquite and telling the parent/relative they're an idiot and launching into a career-mincing tirade against underage gaming.

It's not like in the movies.

The German guy understood that.

Germans and 9mm pistols, it's love and high accuracy!

On the nutcases who arm up and kill civvies, If they were denied guns they'd do it another way, like fire. Honestly nuts tend to use whatever is easiest.
In places where gun control is common (Chicago, New Yawk, Detroit) MORE people are killed by the badguys than places like here, in Az, where we have legal concealed carry permits.

You're right.
In London especially, guns aren't needed. People kill bare-handed in groups. Each year, there's about 300 teenagers and children beaten to death in assaults, just in London. I wont drive my convertible in London in the evening, it's neither fast nor tough enough to be of any use if I'm attacked by a gang. The gangs in LA and Detroit kill other gang members. Here, the gangs kill anyone and anything that happens to want to use the street they're grouped up on. If we gave those violent murderers gun licences... I think you can imagine.

That's exactly my argument, the law abiding folks must be free to arm and protect themselves, that is moral and just. There will never be enough police to protect everyone, and besides that, it is not their job. Police are there to enforce law, not protect us from badguys.

In Arizona, it is against the law to require a citizen to not defend themselves.

But Orwell was spot on, if not a few decades off for tech, you all are the most surveilled nation on the planet. It looks like we may follow suit, our current "leaders" are mostly Socialists with a fetish for killing off our "rights" one or two at a time.

We're way beyond what Orwell wrote about in "1984" now,
and the increase of surveillance is still at a faster rate than ever before.

Yaaaay for tech... now you can have your privacy violated at any time of day, no matter where you are.

Winston, Smith! stand and face the viewscreen!

Oceania is at war with Oceania, we have always been at war with ourselves....

I hope ya'll can shake off those chains someday soon and tell the schmucks in charge where to go. We need to do that, too.

Charles Whitman
12 dead from a height of several hundred feet

Lee Harvey Oswald
3 shots
2 hits on a moving target with a bolt action rifle in approx. 6 seconds.*
1 dead

George Jo Hennard***
24 kills***
20 wounded with a Glock 17, then a Ruger P89 when the first weapon ran out of ammo



That's what I call Texan efficiency, though I'd have to say you pick some weird shit to get into pissing contests over.



*2 of Oswalds 3 shots were in the kill zone, one in the neck, one in the head

**It should be noted that all deaths and injuries occured within a period of less than 20 minutes

***It should also be noted that the last of Hennard's 24 kills was himself. This man drove his truck through the window of a restaurant, then started shooting. The police were unable to stop him.

Of course, this is all second to the fact that you've reduced a bunch of people's lives to a punchline, making you...well, frankly it makes you a pretty horrible person.

Now, if you're purely discussing efficiency with a weapon...Europe will always lose to America. You've lost several times before, in fact. Hell, Germany lost twice. :3

You've proved my point.
America has more killings (ie fires more shots) but comparably the killing sprees are less successful (ie killing more people)

America has more killings, but Europe kills more people?

You just contradicted yourself and negated your point without really even noticing it.

So, America's bad because we kill so many people, but Europe is better because you...kill more people? I don't think you had a point, I think it just makes you feel good about yourself to know you said something inflammatory.

That last bit should have been "killing less people"

I noticed that when I posted it, and credited you with the intelligence to work it out.
You noticed it, so that's halfway there.

I'm saying that Europe has less shooting incidents, which is good compared to America. Also that when shootings do occur in Europe, it's done properly, and usually makes the yee-haw American shootings look silly and melodramatic.

I don't say what I say to be "inflammatory" but to merely see a different perspective on an event. My political views are different from the vast mojority of FA, whom it seems are unable to accept ways of thinking other than the ones which they are told to have, by those that understand the wider perspective the least.

It's kinda funny how you are defending America in that way. :P

It's retarted how you utterly failed to notice he's defending Europe in the EXACT SAME WAY. :D

Well Fara is a girl first off, and secondly I'd agree with her. So far as I can tell, she's pretty much just saying that Germans are a better shot than Americans.

Bingo!

yeah but our guy also went for max damage

But remember- strict gun laws stop these sort of things from happening.

Wait, Europe has strict gun laws . . .

Hmm,
the gun-related death-per-head rate is higher in Washington DC than it is in Basra...

(That probably says much about the American army.)

...and your government want to pull out of Iraq?
Maybe they should think about pulling out of DC.

I been to DC.

There are portions of that town that aren't patrolled by police anymore, only the National Guard, in APCs.

And they have very strict gun laws.

Odd, huh?

Do you think lifting the gun restrictions would make DC a safer place to be?

If I may, an answer from me: (though I invite all involved to speak their minds)

Yes, of course it would. The places where folks can legally carry concealed weapons makes the crime rate drop, because the bad guys don't know who will shoot back.

It's a proven fact the Socialist Liberals of this country won't admit to because it doesn't fit into their overall view. Facts have no place in their ideology if they can't tweak the facts to support their arguments, they reject them.

I agree with Fragman1919A4. If the regular folks are armed, they are no longer prey. The predators either get killed trying to rob those who carry, or they leave.

And, if every town and city, in every state has armed citizenry, that know they aren't going to be arrested for defending themselves, eventually the predators will learn.

Or die.

So, in a short answer, yes, I believe it would make it safer.

"armed citizenry, that know they aren't going to be arrested for defending themselves"

this is key.

Yup. Here, we have 'requirement to retreat' we have to *prove* we tried to run away, before protecting ourselves . . .

That's quite good.
In the last few years, there have been many cases where the attacker gets off, where the person who has defended themselves goes inside, on a murder, manslughter, GBH, assault, etc charge. The one that comes to mind is of a man called Tony Martin, who had teenagers threaten him, his farm, and his possesions, for months. When one of them broke in to steal things from him, he shot the burglar, who later died. Martin went to prison for many years, but got his sentence reduced. Politicians made a big brouhaha about how they were going to support decent people like him, but when "Tony Martin's Law" was suggested, the ministers turned round and rejected it.

Just sad. Same thing out here, really. Lawyers and laws protect the wrong folks.

its been worse since George W. Bush didn't restore the ban on automatic weapons now anybody can get any weapon they want.....

Not true there. only the military and police are allowed full auto weapons. Nobody can get any weapon they want. You have to be licensed and qualified to get most of the "poisons of your choice" that are heavily regulated by ther feds.

I can't believe that you just stated that. Clintons "assault weapons" ban was pure political placebo. So called assault weapons are to large to be used or carried by most gangs and most badguys. And once again, you parrot "automatic weapons" as if they were fully automatic, not semi automatic, which are very different cats.
Very few of what you call assault weapons have ever been used in violent crimes, mostly they badguys like small handguns, which I am sure you are afraid of also.
We can and do own full auto machine guns here in Arizona and many other states, they are heavily regulated by the Gubment. Look into your facts before you make such inane comments.
We need more good people shooting the badguys like we are supposed to, and let the police tear up the left overs.

in colardo i thought you could buy weapons or atleast bullets in target or walmart.When i was in New York i saw that this sporting good store was selling shotguns. When i was in what they call the village i saw there was a Army Navy store selling a sniper rifle but you needed a license for it. there was an army navy store in an area north of Ny called Mystic Seaport that used have isreal anti tank bazooka for 275$$. Anyway there were not too long ago many people living within Ny who used to have huge hidden stockpiles of weapons,usually nobody knows about them until the police ferret them out and arrest them. Also many local gangs and militia have stock piles too i'll bet

Walmart sells weapons nationwide, just not handguns in most places. Laws differ from state to state, but most eastern states are more restrictive. Like California, or worse.
Banning guns is never good, the cities with the worst murder rates usually have heavey gun control laws, can you explain that one? I can, the decent people cannot defend themselves against armed thugs who refuse to follow the laws.
Look in my gallery, I have one of those Israeli bazookas.
We need to punish those who use guns or any violence against decent folk, and the decent folk should be able to defend themselves, and reasonably collect whatever gun they wish.
I have a whole bunch of scary "assault weapons", and I am not a threat to any law abiding person or Police Organization. Lets all use some common sense here, and stop perpetrating lies by folks who use them to take advantage of our Citizenry.

Ah hah hah.

Just remember, that was ALABAMA. Where most people are too drunk on moonshine to get off a good round.

Here in Texas, we'll fire one shot that'll go through a wall and kill four people. KA BLAM. We take our guns surriously.

"The number of gun related deaths in America, where guns are legal, is 2600% higher than England, where guns aren't legal.

I can't help but think, the person in charge of legalising guns feels the same way about Americans as I do."

Each area has different mindsets.

I think the english solve more of their problems with thinking.

Americans... don't tend to think as much. :P