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The Future of Web Technology and Barbftr - POLL
10 years ago
Skip to the bottom for the poll. ANYONE that has played barbftr needs to respond!
TL;DR SECTION BEGIN
Okay, a lot has been upsetting me recently.
"barbftr" is a 12 year old flash vore game; It Has been upgraded a lot to support many custom enemies, vore features and lots of people making their own monsters.
However, FA, DA, Weasly, ect None of them support a HTML5 sandbox or plugin or anything that can do the next generation of this technology; All I can do is link to a .zip file on mega. This does not work for mobile users, and they can't use webgl with a zip without a lot of work. WebGL is the way forward to replace flash and barbftr, I've already proved this years ago. But it requires me to currently run my own server which I would rather not do.
So. Flash is convenient, but expensive, and not open meaning I've had to already hack it lots to get it to behave. People still use it, but I don't see any future with it at all. When I worked on RX8 I spent a good long time trying to extract data and save my work; It's kinda pointless so that failed.
HTML5 is a nice thought, but in practice, it doesn't support joypads nor do browsers correctly handle input when it's used in a webpage. Scrolling screens/slides when trying to click or use two buttons is an issue, so using web browsers at all for any of this stuff is a nightmare.
Unity5 / UE4 are semi-portable engines that can make content, but people have to download huge files, install and run them like programs. In this app driven instant-on world, that seems really crazy, especially since HTML5 type content can run minimally from a browser.
I do not see a way out of this mess. We have web technologies that seem promising but don't hold up in practice (HTML5), we have ancient stuff that's expensive and only works in a few places (Flash) and we have huge, bloated engines that don't really solve any problems we couldn't with HTML5 (Unity5, UE4). Not just that, but the constant idiotic war of CORS and other web failures (did you notice twitter ruined their query API so only servers can safely talk to it?) (domain specific loading is a real pain) (FA doesn't have permalinks that are safe to files, or a API to request them specifically for domain locks and such, but neither does any other site) that did not use to be a problem a few years ago.
Where do we go now? Do we design a HTML5 engine that can be embedded against and demand admins change their servers and security CORS policies, and add .zip files to make HTML5 apps happy? Do we just ignore it and keep going on with flash, screwing over mobile users? Do we risk making PC only programs with popular engines? Do we go PC only but use a more flexible engine like LÖVE? Are there any good roads to making something that allows the media and characters created to be used forever, openly?
QUESTIONS FOR YOU:
1. Are you using a mobile device? (phone/tablet, ios/Android)
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
The winner might receive a prize.
TL;DR SECTION BEGIN
Okay, a lot has been upsetting me recently.
"barbftr" is a 12 year old flash vore game; It Has been upgraded a lot to support many custom enemies, vore features and lots of people making their own monsters.
However, FA, DA, Weasly, ect None of them support a HTML5 sandbox or plugin or anything that can do the next generation of this technology; All I can do is link to a .zip file on mega. This does not work for mobile users, and they can't use webgl with a zip without a lot of work. WebGL is the way forward to replace flash and barbftr, I've already proved this years ago. But it requires me to currently run my own server which I would rather not do.
So. Flash is convenient, but expensive, and not open meaning I've had to already hack it lots to get it to behave. People still use it, but I don't see any future with it at all. When I worked on RX8 I spent a good long time trying to extract data and save my work; It's kinda pointless so that failed.
HTML5 is a nice thought, but in practice, it doesn't support joypads nor do browsers correctly handle input when it's used in a webpage. Scrolling screens/slides when trying to click or use two buttons is an issue, so using web browsers at all for any of this stuff is a nightmare.
Unity5 / UE4 are semi-portable engines that can make content, but people have to download huge files, install and run them like programs. In this app driven instant-on world, that seems really crazy, especially since HTML5 type content can run minimally from a browser.
I do not see a way out of this mess. We have web technologies that seem promising but don't hold up in practice (HTML5), we have ancient stuff that's expensive and only works in a few places (Flash) and we have huge, bloated engines that don't really solve any problems we couldn't with HTML5 (Unity5, UE4). Not just that, but the constant idiotic war of CORS and other web failures (did you notice twitter ruined their query API so only servers can safely talk to it?) (domain specific loading is a real pain) (FA doesn't have permalinks that are safe to files, or a API to request them specifically for domain locks and such, but neither does any other site) that did not use to be a problem a few years ago.
Where do we go now? Do we design a HTML5 engine that can be embedded against and demand admins change their servers and security CORS policies, and add .zip files to make HTML5 apps happy? Do we just ignore it and keep going on with flash, screwing over mobile users? Do we risk making PC only programs with popular engines? Do we go PC only but use a more flexible engine like LÖVE? Are there any good roads to making something that allows the media and characters created to be used forever, openly?
QUESTIONS FOR YOU:
1. Are you using a mobile device? (phone/tablet, ios/Android)
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
The winner might receive a prize.
2. yup
3. tried, failed miserably
4. it can remain like that
5. I'm learning Unity atm and it would be nice to be able to use that. though I won't complain where it ends up.
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game? Ummm Yea?
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster? Yep. Never made a monster tho
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support? Nah not really.
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies) Cant think of any at the moment...
2:no
3:yes,yes,no
4:yes
5:that we can download files of barbftr on our phones at our desire without any problems at all
2. yes
3. helped edit a few monsters, have yet to make a full monster
4. not really, but would help availability
5. as long as availability of such future technologies is limited, it really doesn't help get people interested in improving, Learning to use flash, it is difficult to get any type of art made
5 I'm always intrigued to see where pet projects such ad this go, to see where it could end up, and the endless possibility's that it has.
Boy z aren't I useful
2: Yes I do, Al's great big barbftr dump gave me experience with that
3: Hell yes, most definitely, and no (don't have Flash or much experience with programming :P )
4: I'd be okay with that
5: I think that what has been created so far is amazing, but there is infinite potential for it to get even better (imagine if barbftr was 3D :O [the amount of time that'd take, but there is always Blender])
2. yeah
3. I enjoy the game but I didn't try anything with the maker
4. not really, I never visit these websites on my phone
5. I don't think admins would change the policies for a single project, anyway I feel that Unity is becoming fairly common both in private projects and even in commercial ones. Many are even suggesting me to learn it for future jobs or something. I've seen some games playable in a browser being run in Unity. Some incremental games for example.
2) yep (is ez)
3) occasionally, haven't played the alpha (i think), and i plan to make a monster at some point.
4) not really, i mean, being on PC only isn't really that big a drawback IMO
5) dunno what to say, brain 2 stoopid to think of something. I mean, having a downloadable version is great 'n' and a web version has it's benefits... it's a hard decision really.
2. Yes. (Who doesn't?)
3. I have looked at the several publicly-available versions of barbftr. My artistic skills are too utterly hopeless to make any monster.
4. I don't care.
5. I think HD DVDs are going to make a resurgence very soon.
2. yes 7-zip
3 Yes tried but failed as flash was kinda old and always demanding
4. Flash and android never went together so pc is fine
5. Certainly plugins and add-ons in browsers and engines that support them have a long way to go, but as I major in cyber security there are defiantly scarier frontiers
2. I do~
3. I have seen and played multiple versions of BARBFTR and I think they're all pretty sweet! I have not because flash is a little expensive ; 3 ;but I would like to.
4. I think making it only available for PC is fine
5. I would love to see a pixel style vore game from you or any other game makers (I could assist in making the art if you want help) but i'm sure whatever you do next will be awesome no matter what you choose to do xD
2.Use zips alot so yes
3.Would like to give it a go if I had the time and patience.
4.It would be nice to see it on both for versatality but I'd be more than happy with it just on PC.
5.More crossover of products and product support instead of just being soley for one company
2 yes
3 my pc is shite
4 pc is fine
5 i'm fine with flash
2: Of course.
3: I've tried to fiddle with it and make a monster... could never get flash to behave properly.
4: PC master race
5: Honestly, I haven't kept up with all of the newer tech, so I have no idea. x3
2. some what
3. yes, what alpha, No
4. I only ever play it on my computer so no I dont mind
5. dont know enough to provide anything meaningfull
2: Yes
3: Yes, some. No monster made, but would like to try a moment or another.
4: Pc only is good. Would also avoid things like "holding back features to stay at mobile level"
5: I dislike the use of HTML5 to make everything now. It's far to beat other native codes. Flash is all fine with me, and I find it better than most of other stuffs for tons of things. (Seriously fuck those saying flash suck when it does things quite well. Performance problem is only a problem with heavy stuffs with flash.) Unity and such... Meh, maybe too "heavy" if you see what I mean.
2. Totally, if the file is easy to do
3. I played it since i found it few years ago, don't think i played Alpha
4. You call, but for me, i wouldn't mind, at all
5. <Insert usefull thing here>
2. Yes
3. No
4. I think you should improve on the game before going to mobile devices. so. In that case. No.
5. Everything you do is interesting.
Also will you be making a new monster soon?
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes, Yes, No
4. No
5. not from my side o..o
2. Hehe... I would've thought it a redundant question for PC users.
3. Yes, yes. Edit only so far, I haven't designed one.
4. It doesn't affect me personally. And while it'd be nice to reach the largest audience possible, I'm against it if that gets in the way of making the game the best it can be. Mugen manages just fine without a web player or mobile version either, right?
5. "Are there any good roads to making something that allows the media and characters created to be used forever, openly?"
Yeah-- put it on PC :P
Of course, you'll want to do whatever is needed, if anything, to make it compatible for Kainy or the like. Otherwise though, I wouldn't bother with a proprietary platform like mobile, and from what you've said, the competing web standards have fewer flaws than Flash, but still enough that it's hard to justify demanding that everyone switch over to that.
So the way I see it, we can move to a PC-only platform, or just stick with Flash for now hoping that something better will come along eventually.
2. Yes.
3. Yes, Yes, no.
4. Eh. I prefer browser support so I can play it on my phone, but if that needs to go because of a change in engine I'm happy with that.
5. I think either Unity or Unreal Engine- easily customizable, open, free game engines are the way to go. I've done tons with UE over the years.
2. Yes, actually. Dabbled in TF2 custom files, so...
3. Play Barbftr? Yes. Make stuff for it? No.
4. It'd be a shame, but it wouldn't bother me too much.
5. Someone needs to make a good engine.
2. Yes.
3. Yes I play now and then, but have not created any monster yet.
4. I've no problem with no mobile compability. No browser support would be OK,
5. I've never bothered about this, so I've no opinion.
2. I fear that there are those who don't know how, now that you mention that :L
3. I do not play around with the alpha because I've tried coding...little success, nor do I have any artistic skill D:
4. Perfectly fine if it means better improvements!
5. Now here's where I get quite opinionated, I feel that Flash should be dead already but because people dislike change, they refuse to drop it despite all the shit it brings with it. However, flash is well known and 'easy' to use, which to many, outweigh the complexity of HTML5, since there is clearly, very little push for HTML5 content and there's little else saying that flash is bad, outdated and shouldn't be used any more, Adobe shall continue tricking people into believing that their product is great, the best and nothing is wrong with it. After all, they have the money to do so, no?
No, that sounds terrible.
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
Huh, is this actually something people don't know how to do? I thought we were in 2015.
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
Played, past tense. Made, past tense. I dunno if I'll ever try again really, but I do have a plant critter sitting on my hard drive I could probably share with someone who's willing to finish it...
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
Not personally, unless you're trying to make some kind of mobile game...? Then again Barbftr has pretty simple controls so I guess it could work as a mobile game. Question is... why would you make it a mobile game? On top of that, weren't you working on some other project? Why're you worried about barbftr now?
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
This is all probably above my head, but I do think that Flash needs to be left behind in favor of something better, or at least something new. Generally speaking, not just Barbftr
On a side note I just thought... recently there have been things like whatever the thing Google made that lets multiple people edit a text file or spreasdsheet together in realtime. We already have OpenCanvas that acts as a "multiplayer MS Paint" so a "multiplayer Flash-like" would be cool to see (but a nightmare to create).
Not right now, and when I do use my phone it doesn't support flash.
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
Yup. I think so.
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
First two yes, last one if I knew how, and could draw, I might.
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
Fine by me.
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
I am not feeling well right now so I don't really know what I think of this.
2. Only if it asks if it can make changes to my computer so i can click yes. I never feel safe unless i can click yes.
3. Nope never. Not even once. Made a ton of monsters tho.
4. While just PC would be fine, i really think your selling yourself short. Really should find a way to port it, you know, xbox and ps5 and all that. Maybe then i'd buy one.
5. Its not my fault. Dragons.
2. i'm worried this question needed to be asked... is there honestly an increase to computer illiteracy?
3. well "play" or play? =p i guess there's a difference x3. anyways thats a yes i suppose, don't know about the alpha, and no never tried flash or other related programs.
4. this is almost tied to question 2... almost. anyways there's no point in doing so. while yes there's some simplification that could go on but multiple inputs are needed for a combat/action game that doesn't translate well oh mobile devices even the multi touch ones. emulators partially proved this wrong but those games are old and already fickle its hard to tell...
5. well unity is nice but chrome already dropped support for it being that netscape related api was used (and is an issue apparently?), so for web browser related stuff, you need WebGL (which unity can export or compile as) or html5, i'm NOT knowledgeable on anything but this is the most recent know how i learned. all i know is "apps" aren't everything. but using predefined stuff like rpg maker... you better NOT be asking for money unless you made everything yourself and tweaked code a little. premake/utilities like that are great for mini projects, learning, or casual fun.
2. Yes
3. I played the alpha, haven't tried to make a character
4. I don't mind, but mobile would be epic!
5. Eh... I have no idea...
2. Yes (I don't see what's difficult about unzipping and running the program)
3. I play; haven't made a monster
4. PC.only is good. Heck, I haven't even attempted to run it on my phone
5. [Insert wise dragony things here]
2.Yes
3.yes yes and no (srry I'm too lazy)
4.either way I'm fine
5.im not "up to date" in the latest flash tech so I have nothing to suggest srry
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes, I use a Mac, I think it should just be PC and Mac compatible
5. Eh
2.- The zipping is quite easy ones I know is there, the only thing is my organization at the moment of unzipping the files, but nothing to serious.
3.- yes, to be precise I have played almost all the barbftr versions out there, including the alpha. right now I been playing it offline with the pack that al put out a few weeks in the pass. in the matter of the monster creating, I just need to learn to control flash's more basic function to be on going with the creation. I been looking through the ActionScripts on the Monster Creating + several Al monsters and I thing I can handle the scripting.
4.- I don't really care if barbftr is PC/Mac/Linux exclusive (This opinion was base due to the fact that I stated before " I don't even own a mobile device...").
5.- I feel that the HTML5 has been doing some improvements on several parts of the web. However, this is leaving behind a part of the demographic due to the fact that the HTML5 is creating a multimedia's wrong approach. The HTML5 is a web language meanwhile flash is a direct media/flash file. so flash has an upper hand here.
Now on the Flash side... I have been experience enough times the "Flash has crash" message. I have the feeling that this has been cause by the massive "kind off s " updates prompting to an unstable flash player.
Now I have been using Unity for a while, never for a webside so I cannot take a wise argument in here... :|
As I see it, in order to promote a positive effect I think that changes are require from both parts:
HTML needs to widen their functions to allow a variety of projects to be possible, Including the inclusion of flash movies (maybe with a <flashmovie></flashmovie> tag).
Flash need some serous work to become a more stable and accessible across different plataforms, else it would "crash" down to nothing in a few years.
P.S. I'm not the wises tech guy out there, so sorry for any inaccurate arguments.
2. Ayup.
3. I believe I played atleast each version once? A bit unsure due to bad memory overall, but I believe I have. And while it comes to monsters, I given it a shot, but with the wrong Flash. And it was more just to learn the ropes really then actually create one. This was one or two years ago somethin. Around the time you did that tutorial, I know that much. Stopped pretty early when noticed I needed Macromedia 8 and didn't dare download from the net in fear of viruses and stuff.
4. Not really that much. If one needs to, one needs to, not much more to it.
5. Honestly, I haven't, despite my proffesion seeking, that great of a knowledge regarding either HTML5 or Flash. But from what I been coming to understand, the HTML5 suggestion regarding demanding the server and security CORS policies might not be all out of hand, since, I doubt it's a minority that have complains about it. And web browser stuff is always convient for the user. Though may not for the creator.
Flash well. . . it's sorta been the key and stone for this project yes? So it's not unreasonable to stick to it, if one can handle getting bald from frusturation from time to time, due to it being quite old and one can need something new to stay flexable.
And last that I got something to say about, Löve. From the little google search I done, it seems, really, damn flexiable. Now I haven't actually sat down with it and tinkered, but that's how it looks like. If one can convert all the barbftr (or part of, depending on ambition or how much it can do in reality), that don't seem like a bad choice.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
All in all, do what you need to do. In the end it's justified, the internet isn't excatly the kindest.
1. nope, well at least not for fa stuff.
2. indeed, wouldn't really do to work in IT and not know such basic things.
3. well I played it, never edited a monster though.
4. to me, it wouldn't mater.
5. well, I say its your game, so your choice on what to do. personally, if keeping it available for mobile users is really that much harder, I would go with the PC-only options, cause that would make it more fun for yourself and others who make the monsters and that would in turn, it more fun for the people that play it.
1.iPhone6 Puffin Browser
2.Yes
3.All Yes
4.No
5.I want an easy MOD making tool.
thank you
2. Umm who doesnt? xD
3. I played it a couple hours ago, never knew it existed until I first seen this journal!
4. Nope, I dont care cause my iphone/ipod are out of date and I cant access the app store or run anything well :P
5. I think Unity would be best, it has been growing hugely and there are ways to lock your pointer in on the screen to avoid the scrolling in a webpage (Dont ask how, I just have played games that have it :P )
6. Imma sleep now... x_x
2. *aku Cries*
3 You know me. Barb Fighter Omega Classic III World Championship Addition II Turbo. and Winning
4. This is a Tough one. cause i don't play Games on Anything else. i would have to Say i would Enjoy it more on the PC.
5 *aku blinks* i told you Z, we don't need the marbles to play.
2. Yes
3. Yes, Yes, No.
4. Aww YES.
5. Umm...
2. On my PC, yes. I only go through the play store on my phone so I don't know another way to get games on it.
3. I've played barbftr from a few different creators. I've played Superflame's, Blu's. 67vorelover67's, and Alsnapz's. I have not made any monsters myself though.
4. I actually prefer playing games like barbftr on my PC. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so in public because some people are nosy and I don't want to explain this game to people who are quite possibly going to judge and shun me.
5. I think the PC route is a great option, and using alternative engines is a good move. However, you may want to consider just making multiple versions so it can be mobile and PC. I know that can be a massive time sink but if you're looking to make it available that's the best move.
2.Yes
3.Yes. No
4.Nope
5. ...
2. Yes
3. Yes, yes, and working on one, slowly but surely
4. No
5. I've seen awesome things done with Unity and UE4, and I feel they could really take it up a notch. I can say I have not looked much into HTML5 for making a game (mostly for the same reasons you mentioned...I guess we can only hope that a full transition over to it happens soon, so it might be a little more friendly. >.<)So yeah, I guess my opinion would be on Unity or UE4.
2.yes
3.yes
4.yes
5.......
2. Yes
3. Did some solo edits to uncompleted monsters and such thus completing them. Did a bit of stuff here and there but never finished anything
4. PC only is fine imo. It would be nice if there were better alternatives, but from what Im reading there really isint.
5. like Searnadrix suggested, if youre looking for more availability, then you may just have to bite the bullet and code a seperate platform for mobiles even if assuming that the animations are broken by simply porting over at that point.
Nope
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
Yes
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
I have not touched monster maker, so no. No confidence in my programming skills
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
Not at all, since i feel with PC you have more freedom with options. also biased against phones due to them being too small. :/
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
I'm gonna have to go with the others and suggest Unity as well
I do on occasion, but I mostly use my laptop and Desktop when at home.
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
Yes
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
Yes and commissioned one or two.
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
PC Only would make this a lot easier. Most games except Mobile games only really run on a PC or console anyway.
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
Go with PC only. Most of the userbase is on PC and its the Oldest and most reliable option. trying to Impliment mobile users seems to just cause problems. And To be honest, You never really see any games try to Go from PC to Mobile. its always the reverse.
I'm using a couple of mobile devices (phone, tablet).
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
In general, yes.
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
I do, and often.
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
I'm OK with that.
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
You might have to go with java / javascript for longevity and cross-compatibility.
No.
2. Do you know how to download and unzip a file to play a game?
Of course, although it saddens me that this question even needs to be asked...
3. Do you play with barbftr? The alpha? Have you made a monster?
Yeah, yup, and trying to.
4. Do you care if barbftr becomes PC only (windows/mac/linux) with no mobile/browser support?
I don't really mind, but I've almost never used anything else for stuff so...
5. Opinions on this topic (the future of web technologies)
Well I can't really say too much about web technologies as I'm not that familiar with them nor do I really keep up with new stuff like that coming out.
As for barbftr however, I say do what you feel is right as the choice is ultimately yours. If flash really is limiting everything to an unpleasant degree (which it appears to be) I say move on to something else that would be simple for you to work with. If that means dropping mobile support or having to download an engine for ease of use for you and/or anyone who would be interested in creating monsters or editing the gameplay mechanics/characters, so be it.
Seems like someone with relevant interests.
The whole point of these things is to get people's creative juices flowing, right? As you say- "I like to help, because the more people that have the power to create, the greater the chance of something amazing being created."
Welp- The "PCs are on the decline" crowd probably just want to watch things, not learn how they work. Prioritizing them may boost your visibility, but it's not going to enrich your program.
I'd stick with PC. Then, if it's really just that amazingly awesome and people HAVE to have it on their cell phone for whatever mysterious reason...nature will find a way.
It always does.
2. Yup
3. Yup, Yup, i could try but as of now nope
4. Nope, i know the difficulty of porting
5. i by far do not mind having to download games, using the web as a host for games tends to be tougher on the development end due to ever changing moments. And running a server for others will be a pain in the ass and all, having cloud server will also be a pain since money, all in all i would with the idea of having the game separately, Unity is known for portability