That's a really sucky situation for you. I hope you get payed ASAP!

Ugh. While you mentioned a preference for having the customer pay last, I think it's fairest to both artist and commissioner for the customer to pay once a sketch of the work has been completed (and approved of) -- then you have the money in hand, and the customer knows they're paying for something they'll like.

Indeed. As a regular commissioner this is my preferred method of payment. Well actually I like "half on sketch, half on completion" but close enough.

I'm inclined to agree here. By the time you're ready to ink the commissioner should have a solid idea of what the final product is going to look like, and it isn't unreasonable for you to ask for payment at that point. If they decide they're not interested (or pull a Snowfox) at least you aren't out nearly as much time and energy as you would be had you finished the piece.

What I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a certain amount of trust displayed on both sides; there's really no reason why you as the artist should have to take on all of the risk.

I'm inclined to agree with you; I think I'm going to switch to requesting half the payment once the sketches are done, at least for larger commissions.

That's sorta what I do, half up front, half on completion, not only so I get paid, but so I have a good incentive not to get stuck..

I've adopted that method myself and think it's the safer way to go - though sadly I can't attest to its efficacy too well seeing as I'm not as established or talented as angrboda here. Not much to gain by tricking me into drawing stuff for free, you see. X3

Angrboda, ask Soty how well the strike thing worked out for him, hahaha.

Although he didn't call out the delinquent commissioner right away, so you may have more success.

Soty actually recommended striking to me last night. Fernin, honestly, what else am I going to do to try to get compensated?

striking is fine if you think it will work but i suggest you do what i and other commissions suggest and work on some kind of staged payment

Of all the people i comisioned this is how they have done it, maybe it can help fond your thing.

For Rob i comished 5 sketches, that was a year ago, i paid upfront, still missing #5

for crazycow i paid upfront but he had already began work once we agreed to terms, once he posted his first draft he went back to work on the fixes requested, still waiting on some of those fixes but already put a down payment down for the 3rd batch.

for Barin i paid upfront and got the colored works in a weeks time

For hipper i paid upfront and am getting regular updates on the comic pages for notes and fixes before inking.

so my advice is follow a similar model, ask for full or partial payment first, send a sketch to them via email, get another partial or remainder payment and finish the job...

....
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FYI if i paid you for that commission could i change the story and continue it :P

Nothing; short of direct legal action that is your only recourse to get paid.

Eh, that really sucks. It's why I intend to do the half on sketch/ half on finished payment method :\
Let's hope it gets sorted out soon, aye?

Aww man, I'm sorry to hear that. Didn't you do a more recent commission for him? Did he pay you for that one at all, either?

=-/

You're thinking of  shaytalis who did pay me promptly and is a lovely commissioner all around.

Sympathies and all that, however, your decisions are rather poor ones if what I construe here is correct.

You've essentially been robbed from. As a result, you will no long take commissions. Now, for a moment consider a store. When(I'm not even going to humor an 'if' in this analogy) someone shiplifts from them, do they close up? No, because doing so would be cutting off your own hand as punishment for being stolen from. You're hindering your own ability to make money because someone took advantage of your poor practices.

SpazKitty has a far better idea than taking your toys and going away completely. It sucks, yes, but you left yourself open for it. This is a lesson to learn from, not something to shut down from. Harsh as it may be.

Truth is, you actions don't even hurt the person you want compensation from. He already has what he wants from you. To 'take it out' on everyone else is just silly and ineffectual.

You're not being mean or a jerk, just foolish and somewhat stupid. I understand you're upset, but get a train of logic going for a moment and think if doing what you say you are will accomplish anything that you want it to?

It might seem silly or stupid, but let me clarify the payment thing because people are calling me out on this. I sent him the work AFTER he had initially paid me; then he had the payment reversed by Paypal; after he had received the work. How do you deal with that? Even with the methods recommended by other people, I'm still vulnerable to having payments reversed after I send the work.

Wait, what? D: Is there any way you can take that up with PayPal or something? Because, you know, I'm pretty sure most people would call that fraud.

Yeah, I'd contact Paypal. But usually there's a time limit for which you can contest things like this, and if it was 5 months ago, you might have issues. =\

His paypal (apparently) got TOS'd or something, at least, that was his excuse. He offered to send the money by money order, but of course that never materialized.

Going to stick my two cents in.

Paypal TOS'd me calling me out on some issues claiming fraud on me, it is still in dispute and at the time I did have the money which they are still holding. I have recently actually started talking to a lawyer and its now in their hands. But so everyone is aware the money order was mailed out today and angrboda has the tracking number for the package.

Paypal almost always takes the side of the customer, not the vendor. They know which side their bread is buttered on, and there are a lot more customers than there are vendors.

I suggest taking this matter up with Paypal. They do have a merchant's resolution section with appropriate contacts if you haven't made that effort yet.

Of course, there is also the case for money orders and personal check if you're truly hesitant. It takes a little longer, but there is at least some theoretical safe harbor.

Truth is, there is no 100% reliable 'safe' way for any merchant to operate ever. Regardless of the item or service. There will be times when people will circumvent any and all safeguards put in place. It's a matter of persevering in the face of such a reality that people profit.

Actually, this doesn't sound silly at all. This is why I stopped writing for commission. You spend hours of your time that could be better spent on expanding your portfolio or getting ‘professional’ work, only to get taken advantage of. And in this case, that’s just freakin’ low… So, stand your ground. I love your art. Always have. And you deserve to be paid for the work you do.

Adding a little salt to the wound there, aren't we? Some vinegar to the already bitter brew?

You ask me, the way Angrboda was doing it, was pretty nice, and on a lot of levels. She was depending upon the integrity of others. In this there is no flaw. That someone would take advantage of her for it speaks lowly of them, not her. To call her stupid for it, speaks lowly of you, and again, not of her.

You have my sympathies, Angrboda. I have experienced this from the flip-side; I have commissioned furs in the past, paid up front, but never received what I paid for. Or after nearly a year and me having to get nasty with the artist, I got something really poorly done or even sloppy. Some people can be dicks. That's life, as poor as it is.

I do agree with Mr. Foulmouth up here on one level, though. You're only hurting yourself by closing yourself off to further commissions. There are, after all, a lot more honest people around than there are dishonest ones.

Either way, it really sucks that this has happened to you. You have always seemed like such a nice person.

Thanks, man, I appreciate your sympathy. But really, he did have some valid points. I think at this point I'm going to have to change my system of payment because it leaves me way too open to getting screwed.

As for opening commissions back up, I had them closed while I caught up anyway. This, if nothing else, gives me time to finish up what I owe.

The sad thing is I do try my best to be polite and businesslike to customers, and friendly in the fandom overall, but, c'est la vie.

Those were what I'd call some of your best works, too.

i'm usually not one to condone the "rallying of the troops" through journals, but in all honesty it's a situation I think is the best use for it.

I'm honestly not trying to get people to do or say anything to this guy, I just want to let people know the situation and warn them against accepting work from him.

Thanks for the compliment, I did like the stuff I did for him, but unfortunately this is the result.

If you have a livejournal account, you should make a post over at:
http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/

Someone already posted about him a couple months ago, but it never hurts to let people know he's still doing it. He can make whatever excuses he wants about why paypal didn't work, its just him working the system though (look at how many of his LJ posts involve spending money).

I did see his other beware post. The "don't have the money now" thing INFURIATES me, he has noted me at least once twice with some variation of "payday is friday", and it's like, dude. why are you commissioning people if you can't pay?

Good luck in getting that guy to own up and pay you for your work.

That said, in light of this all, if you would like I'm perfectly willing to go ahead and pay for my commission now, rather than after it's finished if you would like.

If you'd really rather pay now I can note you with my paypal info, it's up to you. I'm inking your commish currently and it's looking good! The colors might be a little tricky to do in monotone, but I think I am going to bend the rules a little bit, if that's okay with you :3

Sure, go ahead and note me on your paypal info and I'll get that over to you. :)

Good luck getting the situation fixed. PayPal can be very troublesome - as an eBay seller, I totally sympathize with the feeling of helplessness when trying to deal with PayPal.

Your not the first artist to have a problem with this chap. Good luck with it however.

I understand your frustration, but why not ask for some money down when starting a new commission to keep this from happening in the future?

I think the best solution is the one offered aobve; half after the sketches are done and half on completion. I'm probably going to take up that method.

I agree with you 100%. I will truly miss your artwork on both Transfur and Furaffinity. Honestly I would hate to see you go.

So here's what I want to do. Just like donating to NPR and their shows I want to donate to you in hopes to keep you on and drawing. I can't cover $60 in one shot like that, But I'm sure if we got like, 13 people to donate $5 that would cover the over due fee. I would hope to see other people willing to help out if they are a fan of your art.
I'll send you a note.

The problem here is were all going to be punished for the bull one guy pulled. He's not going to learn his lesson with you up and leaving. I suggest he gets red flagged by the community as a guy who shouldn't have commissions done. He's not reliable.

I'm really sorry about the flouncing, I do feel like a jerk but I am just frustrated. Thank you for being sympathetic.

I don't want to get into donations because

a) I don't think that's fair, for people to pay for this guy's commission, because then he gets shit for free and doesn't have to feel bad.

and

b) I honestly want to give him time to make good and pay me. I'm still willing to put this issue to rest with him (not that I would ever work with him again, but at least it would give him peace of mind) if he can just get me the money he owes.

Well I'm glad all the comments before I sent you paypal lol.

Theres gotta be someone you can make this complain to ....that individual needs to pay up...or at least work out a series of payments or something .....I like your work...I dont wanna see it dissapear because of one persons neglegence

I am very hopeful that the situation can get resolved in a timely fashion. I'm hardly disappearing from the internet forever :P

Thanks for the kind comment, I'm sure things will work out.

If you're really that pissed, you should make sure you have the person's real name/address and take them to court.

Just because they're a furry or whatever should not make them exempt from penalty. I know it's a royal PITA to get the ball rolling for litigation, but with Paypal info you should have the required info to file for breach of contract.

I know it may not be a HUGE amount of money, but it is a route you can take.
~Locke

I appreciate your sentiment, but the amount of money involved hardly warrants litigation. Add that to the fact that the commissioner and I don't live in the same country... yeah. I would rather the dude just pony up. He has noted me about the issue since I posted the journal and it sounds like we have a tentative agreement. We'll see what happens.

ahh... different countries does make life sticky.

Good luck though on getting what's owed.
~Locke

Uh-huh >.>...cheap skate >.>

The moron's deleting shouts that point to this journal and tell him to pay up. It's obvious he's a deadbeat.

Alert other artists of your journal and make sure that he'll never be able to get decent work again.

He's contacted me and is attempting to make good. It is totally sucky that I had to post an angry journal to make that happen, but whatever, if he can pay me I'm willing to let bygones be. As crappy as I'm sure holding my galleries for ransom made me look, I'm happy Soty recommended it because, hey, it seems to have gotten a reaction at least.

Heh, sometimes naming and shaming does work. I used to live in a small town, and some of the local businesses would post lists of people who had bounced checks to them, for the same reason. ;)

If you think about it, he's promised to make restitution, what, twice before? And you've been prodding him for five months?

He owes you quite a bit more than another promise. And I've started warning other artists about dealing with him, by linking to this journal.

perhaps you could set up a paypal account and use that money to buy a bigger bandwagon.

Huh?

indeed.

I don't think it's unfair. Hell, I will pay for it myself if this doesn't get taken care of by the time my Paypal FA commission fund finishes processing >:{

I <3 ur art.

I actually had the same issues with this same person. I had received payment for the first commission he asked for, but Paypal reversed the payment (taking two weeks to do it) because he had insufficient funds. I let the first one slide. Then on the last one he said he sent it, but I never got it.

So I'm just not taking anymore commissions from him. I just don't feel like dealing with the hassle and I do enjoy drawing for others. I just wish there was a better way to handle this stuff without having to trust someone you barely know.

Everyone else that's commissioned me has paid with no problems though. I don't want to punish others for what one person has done.

Its a shame too, that I wanted to finish another that I had sketched out as part of a comic.

Damn, when it happened to Soty, it took almost two year for him being paid. He, on the other hand, wait to be paid to show the commish, so he finnaly got the money.

But in your case, Seeing he has done the same to Halycon, I don't think the jerk will pay you anything.

Damn. I liked you art.

It happens. I had a guy from the united arab emirates comish me. He said something about risking his life blah blah for the comish. He said he sent a money order. Never got here. Never heard from him again. So it's possible he's been killed for having my prons on his computer, or he fcked me over pretty good with a tall tale.

It happens, get over it. You change the damn rules and move on. If you care about your wallet, and you care about your fans/customers/whatevers, you ask for payment upfront, or half upfront.

Everyone gets burned.

It happens. I had a guy from the united arab emirates comish me. He said something about risking his life blah blah for the comish. He said he sent a money order. Never got here. Never heard from him again. So it's possible he's been killed for having my prons on his computer, or he fcked me over pretty good with a tall tale.

It happens, get over it. You change the damn rules and move on. If you care about your wallet, and you care about your fans/customers/whatevers, you ask for payment upfront, or half upfront.

Everyone gets burned.

Yeah, I've got it, thanks. Not to be crass, but I have never had any dialogue with you, and now you are coming to my page expressly for the purpose of telling me to suck it up? What?

I didn't know I had to have dialogue with someone to comment. I like your art *shrug*. A friend of mine likes yours too, and showed me you were on strike. I thought it was a pity.

No idea why it double posted. Bah.

Sorry if my comment came off super bitchy. I think I was reading way too much into your initial comment. Anyway, as far as things are working out now, it's not like I'll be gone long anyway. I'll probably just end up with a backlog of stuff to post once the matter is settled.

=) Good to hear. Kick his ass for me.

And if you believe that, I've got a Nigerian Diplomat who is stuck in customs, but if you were to send him a check for $1000 along with a stack of porn, he would be more then happy to return not only your initial investment, but at 32% interest to boot!

ROW ROW, FIGHT THE POWAH!

That is a total nightmare. What he did was horrible. Wrong. But I agree with above. You definitly have to contact Paypal. Even call them if you need to. Tell them that your an artist that was hired to do this piece for him and tell paypal exactly what happened. Maybe even tell them what you planned to use the money for. Like saving up for a bill, or something important. They can check out the transaction on their side and hopefully get it fixed.

You could also just keep on requesting the money from him over and over and over again until he does it. You should still have his paypal account so it should be easy. I hope

Just either way, I think because you posted this journal. And he sees it. Well it could cause 1 or 3 things. 1. He is going to deny every single bit of it. Saying that he did pay you and that your so stuck up that you took that money and say you didn't get payed.
2 He is going to pay you really quick and hopefully you fogive him.
3. He is just going to explode at you for what you did in this journal. Pretty much you hurt his name and barly anyone would do any commisions from him and stuff. So he might go after you.

Lets just hope he is going to do #2

my simpathys, i hope it gets worked out.

wow, shortly after putting out this journal, the wayward commisioner has attempted to make reperations, and you've edited the journal accordingly.

any idea on when this will be fully resolved?

Yeah... this kind of stuff is why I prefer to pay ahead of time, or at least after a sketch or two. Hope you get paid soon. Requiring a partial down payment might be good, too.

That's completely unfair. Find out his info from PayPal and send out a posse. I'll head said posse.

I like my system:

I don't just take any commission that pops up (Though I haven't ignored anyone yet, I do have standards) I fill up a modest queue of commissioners, and start working on the pictures. I finish them in order, and require that they do not pay me until I'm done. (because the absolute worst situation is for me not to do the drawing and be unable to repay the commissioner, and though I don't foresee it happening, I simply don't want to have to trust myself not to) Then, once the image is done, the commissioner goes onto a public "awaiting payment list" and they can't commission me again until that is paid for. If I make a second journal with them in the awaiting payment list, I tack on a date. I do this fully expecting abuse, and not in the least bothered by it. Being public, other artist will see that that person has the capacity to not pay.

i liked this series.

its saddening that you have not been rewarded for your skills and service.

i hope you clear this up so we can see more of your work