> two people can think two different things and still be right

This is one of those things that a LOT of people could stand to realize.

YES oh my god, right???

when i learned that i was like "okay well i need to spread the good word......."

self discovery is personal, you can get help from this or that, but someone else may not. Only upon actually wanting to know yourself, can you know yourself. If you leave your mind closed, then you never learn.

I honestly wrote my biography to understand myself. No one else will ever see it, but it really helped me to look at myself objectively.

totally agree with you, but there's nothing wrong with opening up so that other people on the same journey can walk by your side, that's why i write these things; to find my friends. :)

and i can totally understand you on that one, i've been keeping a journal and it's just funny to read my ups and downs day by day, and then i can accurately judge myself. (things ARE getting better, according to my journal)

like you said, everyone's journey of self-discovery is personal, but writing a biography would definitely help some people out, or keeping a journal, or any record of their life if that's what helps keep them happy ^_^

Premising I've never studied it deeply so I might not use the terms correctly, I think I have both in some way;
in my case, I divided it up in self-consciousness and anti-consciousness, the first being my eager desire to describe the world scientifically, which leads to emotional abortion, descriptivism, determinism and a subsequent status of "weltschmertz". The second, is the status that patches up the problems of the first (like the weltschmertz) with newfound, voluntary feelings, which lead back to prescriptivism, aesthetical reasoning and what I think can be considered "idealism", maybe?
They keep encompassing and overlapping eachother, always in a loop, kind of. How does that sound?

Yeah its possible. Depends on what your idealistic views are. You can't expect to end wars or cure cancer but you can dream of getting education, a better job, a comfortable life...those dreams are realistic and that is achievable. And your surprise is, unsurprising (lol pun). SO MANY people can't see that there is always two sides of the same coin. They are so butt clenched that right and wrong are all there is that they don't understand that right and wrong are completely subjective to the situation. There is always more then one way to reach a goal. An extremist action may have a good reason behind it. For example: you kill a person. You are considered a murderer. Now, what if you kill a person to protect someone or yourself? You are now a hero. But how is that possible? You literally just took a life, you have their blood on your hands, their soul ripped apart by your actions. Its the same thing, yet different views will make others see you as a murderer or a hero. The mind is a very complex thing, the world even more so.

For me, someone who kills someone out of self-defense I don't see as a murderer or as a hero, just someone who had to do what they had to.

A murderer, to me, is someone like... Ted Bundy. Why did he kill those women? There was no reason for it, but he did it. Some may even justify their actions, like the killer who would kill people who left their doors unlocked "Their doors were unlocked, they were inviting me to kill them" and the people who kill out of revenge.

This is one of my favorite youtubers, he does a series called Serial killer files, worth checking out ^^: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li.....FngB7EhEWhgPDo

Those people he talk about, deserve to be called murderers.

I've been a fan of Rob since he was still a new channel, like 30k. ;3

I used that as an example because it seem to be the more "acceptable" version of taking someone's life. To me, murder is murder, no matter the reason, whether you had to do it or not, you took a life, you ripped a soul out of its body. You could use the hero label for a soldier in a war instead if you want. The people they kill had families, children, loved ones, yet they are branded as heroes when all they did was destroy lives. Sure, protect, keep their own families safe, I get that, and I don't condemn them for it, but I also do not praise them for the lives they took. There should be no need for protection at all, but alas, the world is not perfect. That's just the argument that I use basically how there are always two views to everything. On one end, you protected those you love, they are happy. On the other, you ripped the family of someone who was loved apart, you are their villain.

But I agree with you there, right and wrong DOES exist and serial killers, mental disorder or no, are wrong. You can be a sociopath and never hurt or kill anyone (in fact most are).

Maaan and you were hiding him from me weren't you? :P Seriously though, man is awesome :D

Agreed, that's why I said, I can't call them heros and I can't condemn them. We're the villains to someone, ain't no stopping it, and in all honesty (and maybe because I'm kinda cynical) the world needs villains, it's what keeps ups balanced

Agreed! With those guys... I find them fascinating but that's as far as I could go with them, their mindset is rather frightening

Frightening but oh so interesting. I love to see how they tick. >:3

I Know right? >:D

I've never really understood the concept. But please let me know, how precisely do one find oneself?
I may just be close minded even though I try to keep a open mind about everything. I never judge people based on their likes, dislikes, actions, beliefs etc. And only ask them to respect mine or then we can't be friends or trust you.

the only thing you need to realize is that even with trust you can never really be "safe" from others ideas, people don't HAVE to respect you, they may not be your friend but you can't run from their ideas forever, you just have to take it and decide on what you want to do about it, that's the only things we can do as humans, change ourselves or try to change the world.

it seems like you know yourself enough! you know how you act, and come across to people, right? finding oneself is kind of like a growing journey, finding where you belong in the world in your mind and in reality.

Ahh! My brother introduced me to Stephen Covey. Good stuff.
I've been going through a similar change in my life, I'll be peeking in on this journal..

which book/s? i really want to read the divine center

Im not sure exactly which ones. He gave me an external hard drive full of audio books from his favorite authors and I usually shuffle through them. I feel like you would really enjoy my family. We're.. a unique little tribe heh. I'll pull up the info when I get home though. I'll look for the divine center too! It rings a bell... my brother just talks.. a lot.

Does it count if one person of me is idealist and one is realist?
This concept has always interested me in several levels. Good thing my psychology classes start in a month.

It feels like I have that same problem sometimes ahaha! I can't decide if it's a personality thing or just being able to see both sides of a picture?

I think it's a part of a personality. But it's hard to tell since I have multiple personalities.
I could consider myself as both, but with adaptation to both subjects when needed.

Some people use idealism to function (Knights of Faith, believing that a just cause and effort will always eventually get the desired result.) But its flawed because it takes so much effort to keep that much faith in your goal.
On the flip side, if one relies too much on realism, they can get depressed at who they are and where theyre at in life (A Knight of Resignation, faith that only a seen path can achieve a result, therefore most goals are impossible.)
I think its possible to have a balance of realism and the ideal, because people need to have goals they can stride for, and the faith in themselves to achieve it without being deterred by setbacks or loss of courage with humanity c:

Technically it is hemaglobin in the blood stream and myoglobin in the muscles that carries O2 in a structure that looks like: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...../Myoglobin.png

But there is an Fe atom in the center that attracts the electron dense O2 molecule.

Well you can think two different things, but cognitive dissonance is always come up at some point which is why so many idealist because cynical to the world, because they see a world that could be better than it is and they know they can't have it, which is where cognitive dissonance comes in. However, knowing the reality can help you make the world a bit better through your idealism, just got to know where one ends and the other begins.

As someone who has suffered Physically and emotionally in the past, I think that's perfectly possible to be an idealist and a realist at the same time. All my life, even though there was a lot of bad, I would always focus on the good (reckless optomist, hey-yo!) But that never stopped me from recognising that there was bad in my life. I would always try to combat those bad feelings by making other people feel good, and a lot of people will say that this isn't healthy, but it legitimately made me feel good to help others because it distracted me from my own problems and forced me to realise that there are people out there who had it worse than I did. I'm gonna stop on that while I'm ahead cos I'm half asleep and I really have no idea if any of this is making sense.
But even as a kid, I alays found debates to be interesting. I alays try to remain neutral on subjects because I can see some truth in each side. Take religion, for example. I live in a very small town (we're the only town in the county and we don't even have a stoplight, we're that small) and a lot of the town folk are religious extremists that look for any excuse to shove their religion down your throat. Because of this, I've been excluded from a lot of town activities. But I can understand this. They're scared of me because they think I'm an abomination, even though they've known me for my whole life. And I'm showing them little by little that I'm actually a really cool person, who doesn't judge people or get any because a specific religion says this about my being trans. People expect me to get upset and when I don't they are shocked, and even more shocked when I tell them that I have some opinions similar to my ultra religious town folk. THAT is the end of that one.
But I like to describe myself as a reckless optimist. I don't really have much of a choice in that though, because I weren't a reckless optimist, I would probable be in an insane asylum. I always try to look at the bright side of things, no matter the situation, and that really helps me through life. You have to take life with the punches, and if you come at it looking at the good rather than the bad, you're almost sure to come out on top. I'm so glad that you've been handling your life so well, and that you're making an effort to make your life better, because most people would choose to sit and sulk about how bad their life is and then continue to choose to do nothing about it to make it better.
Love ya, doll! Thanks for getting us into this! I can't wait to see other people's responses

I've found that my way of thinking is innately negative, but at the same time causes positive results XD
I have always thought that the world is innately flawed, so when it is I can't ever be disappointed, and when it's not, then it can only get better

"Two people can think two different things and still be right"

Unfortunaely that happens less often than one would would think though.

Self discovery is an interesting thing. I myself think A LOT about situations and how I have handled them or why I did something. I've had many Ah ha! moments about myself especially this past year. I've discovered so much about myself and how I work. It's pretty amazing to think about really.

I'm am fascinated by people and who they are/ why they do what they do. I've always been an observer and silent listener. I learn so much about my friends just doing this. A lot of them say I'm really non-judgemental. I suppose that's true, but it's because I understand everyone is different and will react to a situation differently. If people sat back and tried to understand each other more then small situations would be less likely to explode into big ones.

Have you gotten into philosophy at all? Some of that stuff can be pretty crazy.

I know that feel. *flops* @w@

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_thyself
The more you know!

i love you for this

Spread the word and make the world a better place.
I mean, probably.
I guess.

But is the "Queen of Green" a greeny green herself?

On another note, HOO-F*CKING-RAY! The number of observant, open-minded, and understanding people in the world has gone up by one! I'm happy to hear that this general idea has helped you in some way as opposed to just sitting in your mind as a "boring idea" like it does with most people Thank you for sharing this; the more people who hear/read this and are affected by it, the better.

This was one of my more pleasurable portion of my road to self discovery. After studying psych, I started looking at things a bit more differently. After that I took a MBTI test and found a "Rough estimation" of the inner workings in my mind, it really helped a lot. Now I'm in the sort of portion of my life where I start realizing how the world can be so carefree, ignorant and cruel, yet function. Normally that's a path that'll lead anyone to depression but it's in our nature to be selfish to be functional, and take care of our own. also as a introvert and INTJ I tent to be rather passive, but lately I've been seeing that if I want to get anything done right, I'm going to have to fight for it.

While I started rambling myself about... well myself, I just wanted to encourage ya to keep doing your thing, discovering more about yourself and the world/people around you!

There is technically no "right" or "wrong" at all, because it's all subjective. The only right and wrong that really exists is in science and math.

Also, the world wouldn't work if two people couldn't be right at the same time: Liberalism vs. Conservatism, Idealism vs. Cynicism. I think beliefs are a philosophy, not a morality.

Oh my god, thank you so much for sharing this. I haven't heard of ambiverts before, but things are making a lot more sense now!

Agreeing with Rfmg895, philosophy can be really great at times. I'm essentially taking a university minor in it and find them to be some of the more fascinating and useful classes. You actually touch on some of it with the optical illusion. We used the necker cube as our main example but the ideas are the same. It was in a science oriented class so we discussed not only that there are two different views but how these are used in how we can view scientific paradigms. This lead nicely in (scientific)antirealism and (scientific)realism, something that you might like.

Antirealism, put simply, is a view that nothing actually exists or at least we can never actually know if it exists. (Scientific)Reaslism is the opposite, stating that whatever we interact with actually does exist and that it is proovable. Scientific antirealism is a middle ground that I describe as: we cannot truly know anything, but there is a point where you need to pick a well thought out side and go with it. To me, that acts like the optical illusions by accepting both points and using them for a productive purpose.

If you want a real mind bender, look into Marshal McLuhan's views on media, Noam Chomsky's propaganda model and some basic Practical Logic (biases and fallacies in our own thought that show how truly stupid we all are).

It's a never-ending journey. Stock up on the incense sticks! x3

I can't recall a specific term for that (it'll come to me out of nowhere in precisely 4 hours, 23 minutes and 17 seconds, because my brain is a dick in the shape of a brain), but I'd say that's the hallmark of having a well-rounded and balanced mind. Same exact deal with Pragmatism and Theoreticism. It's all part of developing a sagacious mind. The introspection dance leads to heightened (self)awareness, which leads to enlightenment.

As for a particular philosophy that encompasses both idealism and realism, not a clue! XD The label isn't what's important though, so long as you embrace and understand your own views; it's important to scrutinize your own beliefs, and especially those of others before choosing to incorporate aspects or subscribe to the same system. Thinking critically and challenging your own opinions brings you closer to them, assuming they don't crumble... It's a pleasant feeling of realization and oneness within the mind.


There's a shitfuckton of underlying conditions that can result in anemia, iron deficiency is just one of 'em! Our bodies are so crazy complex... but also incredibly simple! They scream to us for help sometimes, and we're oblivious. It's sad how disconnected we are... Green queen? Replace the clubs with broccolis if you ever put that on a card.


I'm surprised you're only just now starting to dig the whole 'validity between perspectives' thing; the INFJ mind revolves around them, even from a young age! Perhaps you're an Fe-subtype. (btw -5 pts from Gryffindor to anyone who googled "introspection dance" from earlier, thinking it was an actual thing XD). I guess perspective pertains to perception (the source on which we focus) and judgement (our conclusions). It's equally possible for two people to draw different conclusions from the same information, as it is for them to arrive at identical conclusions while focusing on two entirely different sources. ^^

Also, is it just me, or does the old hag in that optical illusion remind anyone else of this? XD

Realization of a greater mind beyond the thoughts of our own hidden in plane sight...though of others who haven't awaken from their own blindness to realize such magnitude of other effects on life...it is more than just thinking outside one box...for there are many limits to break within our own reality of our time...though sometimes words cannot describe particular...emotions or events...but it is to know of that existents within our state of mind...heh...

The psychological affect art can have on one's mind is astonishing to be able to create an image that can tell different stories, but as one! I am glad to see another person so interested into psychology! Also, Applying it is always fun!

i never knew iron levels can affect you so much! I need to get more iron in my diet especially with this stressful situation im in now, I need to take care of myself. I'm really glad things are getting better for you! and i too identify with yo as an ambivert. It's so hard sometimes to get myself to get out of the house but when i do i have an amazing time! It's weird and I wish it werent so difficult but thats how it is P

yes, do it!

the only spinach I like it the raw kind and I like my meat, good to here your feeling better about your self.

I think "ambivert" or whatevs is kinda the goal for me, cuz I'm a pretty hardcore introvert myself but sometimes I really want to talk to other people and learn things about stuff, it's just that my anxiety is like "how 'bout no instead" and I'm just like "yeah ok" OTL.

As for the idealism and realism thing, its good to be idealistic but you do need to balance it with realism or you just kinda float off into another world that does not and cannot exist. Any philosophy has to be taken in balance with another, I believe. Like people think that altruism and objectivism are diametrically opposed but I consider them two sides of the same coin; taking either without the other is unhealthy, they need each other to be effective. At least that's how I see it.
One of the best things about philosophy is, like you said, two people can come to totally different conclusions with the same material available, and while that can lead to ugly fights, with the right people it can lead to higher understanding for everyone involved. And that's good. THE MORE YOU KNOW TWINKLETWINKLE/

and the same person can make two or more decisions on one thing, too :P

eeee'yup~ ^_^ Psychology is kinda the best! :>

Too many different people to understood everyone, each of us are different so...
The way of your'e an ampatic person make you weaker than other people for this sort of thing i guess, but it's a good way you have to want to learn more, psychology is not easy
Good luck!!!

Are you by any chance a vegan or vegetarian?

Also about realism and idealism.It's about finding a balance between the two. I think most things in life are like that, you can't have one without the other. In that respect you are on the right track. The best advice I could give you on adding more realism to your life is, well... Start poking holes in what you call "idealistic". That way it devalues the ideal and makes it imperfect; thus a fix. At least that's what I do. :) I'm a bit of a skeptic.

As the population of Earth passed 3 billion, man looked to the stars to help populate their world..

Hell yeah I'm all for self improvement

The part about the iron made me giggle.
I have iron deficiency anemia and it suuuuucks. I have anemic-like symptoms because of the lack of iron.
Gotta take lots of supplements. So I back you up that you're asking people to eat properly!
It suck soooo much!

yup, the world is not the black and white dichotomy we would like to think it is. it's full of nuance and numerous shades of grey (at least 50 i believe)

i feel as though i could learn a lot from you, as the source of my own depression seems to be my realism. it's like.. i'm always stuck down on earth?
it will make me panic because sometimes i can't.. escape the thoughts? it feels like i've hit a dead end sometimes, or other times it feels like life is only one path in order to be happy, but a path i'm not able walk well because there's so many obstacles. the realism makes me hate where i am in life in terms of everything.. who i am and where i live, who is around me, what i do, and what i'll become.
after calming down from each fit i sort of snap out of those thoughts and wonder why i felt that way at all.. i can imagine myself being successful (idealistic thoughts) in what i want to be or do, i begin to accept who i am and think of ways to better myself. after that i'll usually be influenced by those good feelings to achieve goals (such at artwork or exercise).
i would say that the past three years i've been struggling with this but it's gotten better. at first i would say my realism was at a 90% and the idealism at a 10%, but by now i would guess 20/80..
i'm very self aware and i think that hurts me so much when i go through my depression fits, because i know the right thing to do is calm down and be more idealistic, but i can't. i'm still learning how to get out of those fits more quickly.
i really plan to go see a doctor and therapist soon to help me with all of this! but i am taking baby steps before i am completely ready. i've been happy to see myself grow a lot more in terms of self awareness and maturity before i do see a doctor, i think it will be really useful in my road to recovery and whatever "normal" is xP

just don't learn how to run your commission business and how to talk to customers from her lol

Falvie has improved a lot since that time, although I definitely agree that the way she handled things in the past was extremely sub par. If I was a commissioner, I would have been angry too.
We all make mistakes, what matters is if we learn from them.
This comment was completely unnecessary.

don't care

Oh falvie! A thing im sure about, is that nothing its clear in the world.
You can pretend to know and understand everything but its very difficult, not only for you, even for the greatest scientific or comonly person.
Just be you, and if you feel bad about being you, think that for one reason (that nobody knows) you are like you are, and i am like i am, and that will never change.

I would love to continue but my english is horrible so... La dejaré por aqui pero espero que comprendas que siempre va a haber gente que te apoya en este dificil camino llamado vida. Descubrirte no es facíl, pero empieza por saber eso y va a ser mas facil que si crees que es algo obvio.

Kisses!

I actually applaud you on your recent discoveries, it's not often many people preach interesting and notions relative not just to oneself, but to the community as a whole. Reading about what you're saying here is both interesting an eye opening as it's seldom mentioned about how a person can go about thinking deeper thoughts. I'm not too educated on philosophy, but if I recall, Idealism is looking at the better aspects of life while refusing to look at what may actually be happening. I think understanding that you want to keep positive is a good thing, but blinding yourself to the reality of the world around you isn't a very healthy ideal to follow, especially since avoiding key issues that may be revolving around one-self is actually quite hazardous. The sad thing is, with how the world is and how many people have expressed their life to me, going to an idealistic view is probably the only thing people can do to guard themselves from awful situations.

This got me thinking about how other artists seem to hold the idealism quite close; many who've risen in rank tend to toss aside the idea of the real world in favor of their life being surrounded by followers. You mention of avoiding idealism and wanting to stay down to earth is a very important note I've learned to understand in my time through this community. Since I began back in the early 2000's, I've seen how Idealism and EGO can change people, how the desire to be known by more and become 'famous' brings about a ugly face of the person; it shows how far those who want to rise will actually fall when they push people away. That's the thing about it that bothers me, how does someone, who sees their art as amazing and had been supported by their friends up until that point decide to just up and turn their back on them? I think you're taking the right steps in realizing that you want to be good, but not elevated beyond everyone else that would make you look like worse of a person.

You also mentioned eating well, that is too important as a healthy diet is an important measure for a healthy lifestyle. Eating well, sleeping well, and being active are the three key aspects you should live your life. Often I've seen people ignore all those, even me, but it doesn't do your body any good, and a toxic body leads to a toxic mind. I think it was Lincoln who said "Early to bed, Early to Rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." (But to counter that, "Early to Rise, Early to bed makes a man healthy, but socially dead.")

As an introvert, I know how fun it can be to immerse yourself in your own world, I enjoy working on stories for my characters and just delving into the fantasies of my mind, but at the same time, it gets kind of lonely; I've recently been going out a lot more to meet people, not necessarily going to bars or clubs, but just to meet ups with like minded people.

And about your viewpoints thing, yeah, there's always at least TWO SIDES to a story, hence how there's two different viewpoints to a single question that might be right by both parties.

Yup, this hits me all the time. I have this ideal of what the world should be like, not perfect, but, people doing the best they can in this world. Maybe I was tainted by Star Trek. Maybe it was growing up in suburbia. Whatever it was, the depths of cruelty, malice, and violence humanity sinks to never cease to surprise me. Without those high expectations, it wouldn't phase me, but I'm forever shocked and outraged. When I DO expect the worst enough to not be surprised, people say I'm a horrible cynic and pessimist.

The "two viewpoints can be right" thing is really cultural I think. People REALLY underestimate the mental differences that culture and psychological states can do to human beings. People in other times and places have had VERY different ideas and modes of thought from our own.

meat has a lot more digestible iron than plants :)

Thank you, Falvie. Your words helped. I'm an empath still so lost drowning in the tidal wave of my lifetime of depression. it's a constant struggle to separate my emotions from the sea of other peoples' self-destructive emotions that accumulated inside me throughout my life. It's worse for me because of the extremely violent negative childhood environment I had grown up in that chewed me up and spit me out broken and half-dead. My idealism and the reality of the world did clash and break my heart. I flew free like a bird only to crash down into the ground, damaged and defeated.

I do need more iron in my diet, especially since I'm a vegetarian arctic wuffie. Not many veggies in the snow and ice, lol. I think on my next shopping trip, I shall buy spinach and such.

I'm an introvert in 1st Life trying to be an extrovert in my 2nd Life. This is my attempt to see both sides of a situation, which I really try to make an effort to do. It does seem hard to keep an open perspective when you're told, "Keep your paws on the ground. Stop the flights of fancy. Imagination isn't real." I just can't give up stories. My beloved books which I still have helped the little kid I was so long ago escape from a domestically violent father into other beautiful worlds of magic and fantastical creatures and heroes triumphing over villains as well as visit other worlds where things were far better than my own world. I'm sorry. I'm still a work in progress. I'll stop now.

Focus on everything happening right now and enjoy and love it for what it is. You are exactly where you are supposed to be.
Any ideals or visions you have for the future will become realised innately when you let yourself naturally expand into them without wanting them
before they need to get to you. Just keep doing what excites you!

Also! on people having two different opinions which can be right - Have you read about polarity consciousness?
Apparently the more evolved we become the less polarity we experience in the way we see and think (e.g. not viewing things as either just 'good' or 'bad', 'right' or 'wrong' but rather both simultaneously depending on how we would like to experience them).

Try these videos!
On having an extraordinary life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LolMxVjjpQU
Dropping expectations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uTrz3cWxdE
On introversion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rDIn9raTsk
On achieving perfect health: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvoSclPna14

Generally all of his videos are great. Def check out Bashar if you haven't already heard of him!