The only furry-bashing I encounter is on online gaming communities, typically Team Fortress 2. 90% of these instances involve references to The Furry Pound.

So on one hand, while it's one thing to tell people to get over furries, it's entirely another thing when there's a publicly accessible community of furries that display these stereotypes and reinforce them.

The trouble is that while stereotypes might *often* be true, they get treated as if they are *always* true, and therein lies the fallacy.

My point is that the stereotypes about furries is too often reinforced by furries. Saying "Get over it" to outsiders means much less when the retort can be "Fix your shit."

If your goal is to split hairs between the 'often true' vs 'always true' I would advocate that your energy would be best spent towards improving furry behavior. If a stereotype has any grain of truth to it, that's the problem, not the people pointing it out. Give the trolls nothing to point at.

But, the point of the message is that the behavior that elicits the "LOL, Furries" reactions are common in most fandoms. Anime. SciFi. Fantasy. Cosplay. We all behave the same way because we're all stupid human beings and stupid human beings behave surprisingly similarly when they group up.

My reaction the "LOL 'insert fandom members here'" is to say, "LOL, Typical Fans/People/Human Beings".

Pretty much, the self-depreciation expressed by people in the fandom should be pointed at the -persons- being the dinguses, not the fandom itself. And that making fun of the behavior of other people is really almost always a "Kettle calling the Pot black" situation and should just be knocked off unless it's something actually socially dangerous.

I know that asking for some maturity from fans is foolish of us, but, hey, can't say we didn't try, eh?

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=3798

First let me clarify that I made the observation in regards to the community itself, that I often see people within the community falsely stereotype the community; there's not much point addressing the *outside* community in a journal on FA. "Get Over It!" means "stop thinking that furry fandom has some special monopoly on *anything*."

Second, stereotyping is a pretty big hair to split, between "often true" and "always true", it's the difference between "guilty" and "not guilty"; it's lumping the innocent in with the guilty by dint of an unrelated similarity. 50/100 on a test means the responses were often true, in no sense does it approach that all the answers were always true. Stereotyping insists that since half of the answers a person who got 100/100 were the same as the person who got 50/100, then the two people taking the test are the same.

It's pretty straightforward: saying stuff that isn't true (lying) is bad. Stereotyping is saying something about a group of people , where for a number of them, what you are saying is not true. You are therefore lying about those people. Which is bad.

What happened to TFP? It was fine the last time I was there.

I don't play there and have only visited once or twice in the past few years, but in TF2 communities, it gets scoffed at by non-furries. Mostly about the porn sprays, in-game chat sex, and teamstacking by the admins.

People on TF2, League of Legends, Halo, CoD and pretty much ANY online battle arena talk crap about anyone and anything that isnt exactly as good as how they play. I play regularly on TFP and more than once i've seen non furry gamers pop in with obvious intent to troll and actually ended up complimenting TFP about how chill the other players are. Compared to any other TF2 server where MLG idiots are yelling at you about not having exactly the right load out or knowing exactly where to set up on every single map.

I scoff at TFP for exactly those three things.

I'm there to hang out with people and play games.

I have no issue with porn sprays, they don't offend me. But people lining up to oogle them during active gametime is detrimental to the team.

RP in non-RP chat? I find this distasteful everywhere. In a game, in an artist livestream. Keep that stuff to Furrymuck or other RP based locations

Teamstacking? Oh yeah, the admins did that constantly at TFP. I'd change teams to unstack and they'd stack immediately again.

The bullshit at TFP is pretty much why I stopped playing TF2. I have no patience for juvenile idiocy when I just want to relax and play some games.

When I joined the ATF_Humpaholics clan, my world changed. They run their HUGE clan like a military dictatorship, which is immensely helpful in cutting down on all drama and any obfuscation of rules or statuses. It frees up the mind to focus on the game, having a good time, making friends and building a community. Chain of command. See bullshit? Report it. Nothing down about it? Kick it up the chain of command.

Leaving behind TFP and the people that ran it was good for my soul.

Hmmm... I can agree with most of this, but I typically tear myself down far more than I ever would anyone else

Being self-effacing isn't wrong, humbleness is a virtue, as long as it doesn't become self-destructive.

passed that point long ago hun *hugs on*

Oddly simple and applicable journal that gave a fair bit of insight. I appreciate that~ Thanks for sharing this~

That's why I'm working on my furry story project. :O
Maybe it'll not work but I'll try to gives a better identity to the furry community in our society. :O

The funny thing is, over the decades, as far as I've been able to tell, the furry community generally doesn't *have* a bad identity, outside of the people who *want* it to have a bad identity.

Hmm I see. :O
But I don't said it either, I said I'm trying to get a better identity for it. :3c

Every once in a while I meet some people with sufficient overlap to the stuff I like that we'll do things, tabletop and boardgames, for example. After a while I'll let the know I'm a furry, or at least a big animation fan. I very often get a "Really, I'd like to know more, what's it all about."

So, yes, furries are probably their own worst enemy, and on the cusp of faded news, in the same way there aren't 'Goths' anymore, just a bunch of Emo kids. I've had to explain furries -backwards- from Bronies. "Kinda like the people who like MLP, but for Bugs Bunny." "Ooooooh."

I've been role-paying gaming for 25 years and here and there I encountered gamers who like to play furry characters, or actively don't mind them. most possibly due to the way one plays them. none of them were furries or cared about furry fandom. all the while one of them was a furry, and poked me into the right direction back when.

here and there I had to explain "furry" to people. be it as "open spontaneous theatre", "animation and comic fans", or by using the various animal characters on german TV ads (one bank is using a fox-with-glasses character, who is omnipresent on TV for the last 50 years or so. so, nothign wrong with liking similar animal people, yes?)

It's like being the wimpy kid on the playground. It doesn't matter what you do, you're branded a loser and you'll get picked on. Bullies need a target, and being "different" makes you one.

Now bronies have showed up on the scene, all "hey guys" and the bullies have to split their time, so there's less general malcontent towards furry in general. Not sure this is a good thing, but it does seem to be a thing.

That being said, the "ugh, furries" sort are not unlike those in any other subculture. Gays bemoaning the behaviour of other gays for being "too flaming", black people complaining about other black people getting to be "too black", Jews mocking Jews for being "too Jewish". Sometimes it's serious, sometimes it's mocking, both those can be problems, but sometimes it's just one of those moments of self-reflection where in the behaviour of others you see a reflection of yourself and find it funny or disturbing.

I'll tell you one thing, though. As warm, friendly and inviting as the furry community is and has been, it sure can make a mountain of even the smallest mole-hill.

Only a furry would deal in absolutes.

So we are the sith... cool. i wanna shoot lightning!!! XD

This explains the double-dildo shaped lightsaber in the weapon's locker...

People love to villify groups they dont understand

The boggling thing is when it comes from *within* the group.

maybe they dont understand themselves?
i cant really say for sure

I think it's just proof of how diverse the interests and identities are of the members of the fandom. There are extremes in all directions so you will always find someone doing something that you find weird, or disgusting or whatever is opposite of your views/feelings.

The difficult part is keeping the reactions in tune with the actions. Two people do something boggling doesn't mean "OMG, (all) Furries do that!".

Indeed. not everyone is the same. Honestly i just see people as people. i may not like certain groups, but i wont claim they are all like those i dont like.

I'd find people less human if they didn't commit those mistakes. The "socially enlightened", I would say, are the real weirdos in any group

Oh, I don't expect people to stop making mistakes and social faux-pas and all, we're *people* after all. But we're supposed to learn from those mistakes and hopefully not make them *again*, so our lives and our world become a better place!

all this! good on ya.

Yeah, I'm sick of hearing it too. Attitudes outside the fandom are changing; ours shouldn't be going the opposite direction.

Personally I can say that things you said here, Wolf, are things I often said to other people myself. Even made this point to a college newspaper when someone decided to interview me about furries for it.

We are no different from other people. Not only is it stupid for other people out of the community to think there's something wrong or different in furries, it's stupid to think that of ourselves. Despite some people wanting to deny their humanity, we're still only human. To error is to human, after all.

I was looking at some youtube videos last night of non-furry folk doing things that could be attributed to that sorta "F*in' furry mentality, and started ruminating on that, and my own biased perception.

Always a good idea to re-evaluate your own perceptions, and stop being negative towards people for a certain prejudice.

Wow, someone understands it.

Maybe people come into this community with more preconceived notions than other "geeky" pursuits? And as such, have internalized the bad habits they associate with it. Combine that with low self-esteem common with such groups and social pressure to perform, and you get a stew pot of stereotypes.

Also, furries are a so-called "acceptable target." Most other groups have shed their stigma by being profitable and easy to understand in a cultural context. People can get sci-fi and anime and LARPing. No matter what your freak is, at least you're not a furry! It could be because of a number of factors... I'm sure the topic is broad enough to encompass a graduate thesis, which I am far too sleepy to type out at 11:30pm.

question: if you look at furry porn but refuse to buy/build a fursuit, does this allow you to keep a modicum of dignity

*laughs* That's entirely up to you! I've never owned or worn a fursuit, but personally I think some of them are exceedingly well done and appealing, and some of the folks wearing them seem to be having a great deal of fun. I've done historical reenacting (dressing up like a Revolutionary War soldiers), I've been in the SCA (dressing up as someone from the Middle Ages); it's hard for me to find fault with someone who wants to dress up as a cartoon-dog and enjoy the heck out of themselves.

To be simple and blunt about the matter, the truth be told is as you said: No matter what you address any Furry as, a sub-culture, a fad, a group, a fandom...we exist, will continue to exist and will not fade away. Think of it as us being the strong of the soul, the heart of which exists a glowing flame. Shared by all, while separate, we all share the same thoughts. There are branches in their own right, ignorant stereotypes born and raised under their own banners. All would represent us and yet not...at the depth of it all, the unique nature that was and will continue to be the culture that many of us enjoy and embrace will define us. Much as we as individuals define ourselves.

I feel that this short prose rather explains well my thoughts on the matter, somewhat inspired from your journal. While I have my own pride, views, and feelings about all sorts in part of the Furry Fandom. To be most clear, I try not to think of myself as too much in this thought, as I am but one tiny speckle of sand amidst a dune.~

yes, but what if some of those remarks are just sarcasm, or self-irony?

The sheer number of them, and the fact that they're generally stated flatly (there's no indication of humor) would seem to suggest that it's not all humor/sarcasm. Even if the majority of them are, joking that all furries are in some way bad just seems like a bad idea and unfair to the fandom in general.

that is of course, a good point. I have no idea why furries berate their own passion, it surely does no good in the end.

ah, the olde days...

It's actually changing in the media. This year, the news stories were overwhelmingly positive in tone (word choices, word usage)

...and I am generating the stats to prove it.

Someone actually mentioned in an earlier comment that they found it strange that in an era where the furry community is increasingly viewed positively and even sympathetically by the mainstream, there's a subset of the community itself that appears to insist on stereotyping it in a negative light.
I did read the article by the way, the numbers are interesting, but I agree with the observation that a lot of them do appear to be rather skewed due to being taken at a convention as opposed to polling the more general population of the community: from a scientific standpoint I think I'd prefer to handle dynamite, it's much less tricky than statistics!

I think the negativity is within fannish communities where we're still the bottom of the heap. That said, Fencon is having a furries panel, which is a good step in the right direction. I intend to be on it and to Throw Science at them.

I'm such a troublemaker.

Bullies need their bottles, and over and above any so-called 'proof' that by and large we're a bunch of weirdos at best/deviants and perverts at worst (which we're not, but hang on to that hyperbole), we're easy to pick on. It doesn't mean we're all walking around with 'VICTIM' polystapled onto our foreheads, but it's easy to make fun of a group of people that to enough (regardless of whether or not that 'enough' is a majority's opinion) people are doing things that to them are borderline disturbing (however much in the lack of squick) with no omnipresent permissive authority informing the ignorant with politic reason and convincing explanations...well, we're the Hair Club For Men, here. The closest functioning body we have to that is the Big Name Artists (a couple of whom have posted in this comment section, mind you, and of course the chummer who posted the journal ^_^) who are almost always Big Fans themselves. It's not that any of us (if I may) could do a poor job of convincing someone who wasn't familiar with the reality of the State Of Fur and the kind of breadth this fandom encompasses (and being honest about the sexual aspects of it, in proper measure, once the tone was set), it's that most people who would be able to take in and respect what was explained would also probably not consider any of us to be unbiased in our beliefs.

For what it's worth, I'm quite sure there is no lack of people unfamiliar with Furry who, if having been approached by Furry fans, exposed to aspects of the fandom online or having approached the fandom on their own, would understand what they are seeing is a valid subculture and fandom that has no intention of doing unwanted naughty things to them or theirs. The truth has always been there; we just needed enough time for the metacultural rinse cycle to wash out said misconceptions. We probably need some more, too, but I agree with MelWhite: we're a lot closer to being understood by a whole lot of people who were once unaware of it than we used to be.

-2Paw.

When I "in the furry community" or "furries <fill in the blank with whatever>" I'm usually not laughing at all, nor "making fun". I'm commenting on what I've seen within the fandom in the time I've been in it, and yes, to a certain extent, I'm actually including myself in the comment, since I happen to BE a furry.

Do I automatically assume every furry in existence is included in my comment? Of course not. It applies to the people it applies to, and most of the time, when I make such a comment and you read it, you know EXACTLY who I'm talking about because you've met one or more of said people yourself.

Also, being a furry myself, at best I'm laughing at the "culture" of being a furry; something I'm familiar enough with to comment on and have some experience with. And yes in some cases it's things pretty much exclusive to the furry fandom, or at least far more dominantly seen within it than any other fandom or group.

When it comes right down to it though, it all falls under human behavior and mentality, and honestly, for some reason I can't find anything funny about the things I might comment on when I look at them from a "the entirety of humanity" standpoint. So I talk about the things I've seen and know something about in part... aka "furries".

As (I have written elsewhere here) I was part of the OLD scifi scene myself, and remember when furries didn't really exist yet. I remember when sometime in the late 70's early 80's the beginnings of furry fandom coming out of the scifi genre. Things have changed a lot since then (the parties aren't as fun, lol).

People need to remember that everything has roots in other things.

Also I am a heavy history nut as well. I Did living history with period (original) items for many years. And trust me, there are strange and sometimes rude people there too.

And don't get me started on how people talk badly about people who are into anime (as I am, and have been since the early 70's), and about each other (cliques),

I have even received flak from here.

I think people just need to stick a certain protuberance in a certain nether area of their own, and smell that they can stink just like everybody else.

Or they can choose to treat themselves and others with some respect that other groups (seem) to have without too much hassle.

(something not done very often between people of differing opinions in the furry community).

In the end, the only person you should ever have to prove anything to is yourself.

But we should all try to accept ourselves, as well as others. We are, after all, only (partly) human.

Very well said furry brotha. I'm glad someone had tha balls to speak out about it. I'm in all kinds of communities. Anime, Gaming, art, and especially tha furries. I love all of it man!