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Just a little more religious debate pt 2.
10 years ago
Video -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuO0me-pCwc
This will be the last one I post from this dude even if he decides to reply. Doesn't look like he'll have much to offer after this. Who's already reverting to religious go to phrases and avoiding some arguments i've made just to introduce new ones or just circling in general.
Youtuber 1:
See, this is exactly the kind of thing I spoke of in an earlier post of mine. You must have insulted my intelligence, or the intelligence of Christians at least 3-4 times in this long drawn out post. A: I do not have a lack of understanding and B: I am not willfully nor unwillfully ignorant. I understood the green monkeys argument.......and I still think it's a crappy comparison......ENOUGH ON GREEN MONKEYS for Pete's sake!
LOL Moving on.....I do not know you. You say you have a moral compass. Good for you. However, what your moral compass is may be completely different from other people. There are people that have no qualms about walking up and punching someone in the face (see "knockout game" on Youtube) Who has the final say on who is right if God does not exist? People often say that "if God exists, why is there so much evil in the world"? Because of man's sin, it caused our separation from God. Right now, you could say earth belongs to satan. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. I believe God still watches over those on this earth that believe in him.......but the fact remains we are separated. Would you run up to an elderly person and punch them out? Would you shoot someone because of the color of their skin or their profession? This is happening on a daily basis. Would you pay $50K just to go to Africa and kill a beautiful lion (IMO one of God's creatures) for mere sport? Who can deny Satan's impact upon the earth? And it will only get worse. Rest assuredly, there is a special place waiting for the types of people I just mentioned. They have no moral compass. If you have one, recognize it was not man made......and there is still hope for you.
In the end days God said their would be "scoffers" and blasphemers. There are more people today scoffing at the very thought of existence of a God......and more people blaspheming God (using his name in vain) and some even dressing up like him at gay parades as a joke. The special place I mentioned earlier awaits them as well. God does not want to send anyone to hell. He died on the cross so we would not have to go there. All we need to do is acknowledge that fact and realize we are FAR from perfect (confess our sins). Finally, you do realize Christians/atheists will NEVER settle this debate, right? I will tell you why: God would not speak of "faith" so much in the bible if either side could present CONCRETE physical evidence. After all, one needs faith to believe in something one cannot see, touch, taste or feel. God knew he would not be physically present on this earth with us.......so he left us with the message of faith. My question to you is....when things get so bad on this earth that you want to escape, who will you cry out to? Your fellow man? The only ones left on earth at that time will be the murderers, rapists, and blasphemers. Good luck.
Me:
and again you didn't address my other post. I'm going to assume it's because i've stumped you and your claims of prophecy and "failed logic."
Yes let's move on from that because you're still stuck on the same mistake you made in the first place. I stated a fact. your lack of understanding is evident and you continue with it. There's no denying. The posts are there for review. Also, no I wouldn't discredit the intelligence of all Christians, just most. I'm not saying atheists are more intelligent than Christians, they can be stupid too. Intelligence can be measured and can't or shouldn't be discriminated against just because of what you believe.If someone is calling you stupid simply for what you believe and without stating plausible reason for believing your are stupid, they are stupid as well. They've shown no sign of intelligence, just bias.
In accordance with the "knockout game." Fallacious argument for the right/wrong debate. Just because they have no qualms about it, doesn't change the fact of right or wrong. They know it's wrong.
"Would you pay $50K just to go to Africa and kill a beautiful lion"
Huh, that's interesting. Most refer to the bible verse that the Lord gave us dominion over all animals when it comes to topics like this. I'm surprised you came to the lions defense and have to wonder if it's because Jesus was compared to that of a lion. At any rate i'm against hunting. I believe it used to serve a purpose but no longer, other than population control, but the only species on earth that needs population control currently would be humans.
"The special place I mentioned earlier awaits them as well."
"God does not want to send anyone to hell. He died on the cross so we would not have to go there."
If God did not want to send humankind to hell, then he shouldn't have created humans in the first place, or at the very least, not created a way for evil to take root. If you believe God created all in existence, you would have to acknowledge that he created evil. You would have to acknowledge the all powerful, ever present and all knowing entity knew the devil stalked his garden in a hidden form of a snake knowing his intent and knowing Eve was going to be tricked. Instead of being flat out truthful with Adam and Eve, God spoke in a riddle so that instead of one person falling for satan's trick, they'd both be tricked. If Adam was fully aware of what the apple entailed he would have not be tricked by the sight of Eve eating the apple and being ok. The devil tricked eve's mind and God's riddle tricked Adam's eyes. That was a collaboration. If God had been straight with them and told them that the apple pertained to their spiritual death and held the knowledge that would cause their spiritual death, their faith would still have been tested but they'd be fully aware of what they were doing. God made it impossible for them to pass his test with a little white lie. Which, I believe, still counts as a sin.
Tell me, why would God create humankind knowing full well what he would do. You're so stuck on prophecies and current event's you're not looking at the big picture or asking the right questions. If God knows things before they even happen, why create them? Why create someone he knows will grow to be a criminal? Why create humankind, knowing one day He'll cause worldwide genocide and wipe them all out? Your prophecies suggest that he knew what he would be doing long before he even created existence itself. He knew he would be sending people to hell! What kind of loving God does that!?
You mention that there's a special place awaiting certain individuals! in my eyes no individual should go to hell. Not a murderer, not a thief, not a liar, homosexual, blasphemer, adulterer, no one! If all this is real, no one is at fault but the devil! We should be blaming the devil for the trick he played and it should be him that suffers! We are people that are suffering because we didn't get to choose. Adam and eve had their chance and the rest of us are born into sin.
You say God came to die for us, I don't even know why he would have to. God, an all powerful being needed to come as a man to create salvation for us when all he needs to do is will a way. Why does he need a man to create salvation? Is he only limited to that one way? That doesn't suggest an all powerful God! In fact, this seems so imperfect in fact God doesn't seem any different from the rest of us. Think about it. Did manifesting himself in the flesh make it easier or harder for people to believe in him? Before he worked with humans directly, he struck down men on the spot, people worked miracles, His voice boomed across mountains. Then, he came to earth, died and now we got to trust a book that didn't come forth until centuries later after his death, a book Jesus himself didn't write? How are we supposed to trust this book? If I wrote "You're going to be murdered" and sent it to you by mail, how would you feel? Would you take it seriously? You'd get paranoid right and possibly call the police for protection or investigation or something, right? How do you know the letter isn't in jest? How do you know if it's serious or not?
"we are FAR from perfect (confess our sins). Finally, you do realize Christians/atheists will NEVER settle this debate, right? I will tell you why: God would not speak of "faith" so much in the bible if either side could present CONCRETE physical evidence."
Anyone who states any human is perfect is a fool. We do not contest that. That would also imply the bible isn't perfect because it was crafted by humans and is apparent by it's contradictions. Of course we'll never settle this debate and only because of you and your claims without lack of evidence. What's funny is when people make good points against some of the arguments Christian's bring up, you dismiss it. you don't have an answer and revert to "you've been warned," "i'll pray for you," "you've smacked Jesus in the face," as your go to answers. You can't admit when you've been beat, you just wait until you (or life) beat yourselves (explained further down on people who backslide). Doesn't matter how much evidence that is brought forth from those opposing religion, because your argument is based on something that can't be proven, the debate will continue on.
"After all, one needs faith to believe in something one cannot see, touch, taste or feel"
Sounds like a schizophrenic has more reason claim to believe something is real than you do. Riddle me this, I've seen those who've claimed to have faith for a long time eventually walk away. Some claim knowledge, some claim a life-threatening event. Doesn't even have to be that big, some say they still believe, but they've turn back to worldly ways, stop going to church over something as little as stress. How would someone who've had such a strong faith, believe in God so heavily and claim to have heard the voice of God turn away so readily knowing what's at stake?
This will be the last one I post from this dude even if he decides to reply. Doesn't look like he'll have much to offer after this. Who's already reverting to religious go to phrases and avoiding some arguments i've made just to introduce new ones or just circling in general.
Youtuber 1:
See, this is exactly the kind of thing I spoke of in an earlier post of mine. You must have insulted my intelligence, or the intelligence of Christians at least 3-4 times in this long drawn out post. A: I do not have a lack of understanding and B: I am not willfully nor unwillfully ignorant. I understood the green monkeys argument.......and I still think it's a crappy comparison......ENOUGH ON GREEN MONKEYS for Pete's sake!
LOL Moving on.....I do not know you. You say you have a moral compass. Good for you. However, what your moral compass is may be completely different from other people. There are people that have no qualms about walking up and punching someone in the face (see "knockout game" on Youtube) Who has the final say on who is right if God does not exist? People often say that "if God exists, why is there so much evil in the world"? Because of man's sin, it caused our separation from God. Right now, you could say earth belongs to satan. I know it sounds crazy, but it's true. I believe God still watches over those on this earth that believe in him.......but the fact remains we are separated. Would you run up to an elderly person and punch them out? Would you shoot someone because of the color of their skin or their profession? This is happening on a daily basis. Would you pay $50K just to go to Africa and kill a beautiful lion (IMO one of God's creatures) for mere sport? Who can deny Satan's impact upon the earth? And it will only get worse. Rest assuredly, there is a special place waiting for the types of people I just mentioned. They have no moral compass. If you have one, recognize it was not man made......and there is still hope for you.
In the end days God said their would be "scoffers" and blasphemers. There are more people today scoffing at the very thought of existence of a God......and more people blaspheming God (using his name in vain) and some even dressing up like him at gay parades as a joke. The special place I mentioned earlier awaits them as well. God does not want to send anyone to hell. He died on the cross so we would not have to go there. All we need to do is acknowledge that fact and realize we are FAR from perfect (confess our sins). Finally, you do realize Christians/atheists will NEVER settle this debate, right? I will tell you why: God would not speak of "faith" so much in the bible if either side could present CONCRETE physical evidence. After all, one needs faith to believe in something one cannot see, touch, taste or feel. God knew he would not be physically present on this earth with us.......so he left us with the message of faith. My question to you is....when things get so bad on this earth that you want to escape, who will you cry out to? Your fellow man? The only ones left on earth at that time will be the murderers, rapists, and blasphemers. Good luck.
Me:
and again you didn't address my other post. I'm going to assume it's because i've stumped you and your claims of prophecy and "failed logic."
Yes let's move on from that because you're still stuck on the same mistake you made in the first place. I stated a fact. your lack of understanding is evident and you continue with it. There's no denying. The posts are there for review. Also, no I wouldn't discredit the intelligence of all Christians, just most. I'm not saying atheists are more intelligent than Christians, they can be stupid too. Intelligence can be measured and can't or shouldn't be discriminated against just because of what you believe.If someone is calling you stupid simply for what you believe and without stating plausible reason for believing your are stupid, they are stupid as well. They've shown no sign of intelligence, just bias.
In accordance with the "knockout game." Fallacious argument for the right/wrong debate. Just because they have no qualms about it, doesn't change the fact of right or wrong. They know it's wrong.
"Would you pay $50K just to go to Africa and kill a beautiful lion"
Huh, that's interesting. Most refer to the bible verse that the Lord gave us dominion over all animals when it comes to topics like this. I'm surprised you came to the lions defense and have to wonder if it's because Jesus was compared to that of a lion. At any rate i'm against hunting. I believe it used to serve a purpose but no longer, other than population control, but the only species on earth that needs population control currently would be humans.
"The special place I mentioned earlier awaits them as well."
"God does not want to send anyone to hell. He died on the cross so we would not have to go there."
If God did not want to send humankind to hell, then he shouldn't have created humans in the first place, or at the very least, not created a way for evil to take root. If you believe God created all in existence, you would have to acknowledge that he created evil. You would have to acknowledge the all powerful, ever present and all knowing entity knew the devil stalked his garden in a hidden form of a snake knowing his intent and knowing Eve was going to be tricked. Instead of being flat out truthful with Adam and Eve, God spoke in a riddle so that instead of one person falling for satan's trick, they'd both be tricked. If Adam was fully aware of what the apple entailed he would have not be tricked by the sight of Eve eating the apple and being ok. The devil tricked eve's mind and God's riddle tricked Adam's eyes. That was a collaboration. If God had been straight with them and told them that the apple pertained to their spiritual death and held the knowledge that would cause their spiritual death, their faith would still have been tested but they'd be fully aware of what they were doing. God made it impossible for them to pass his test with a little white lie. Which, I believe, still counts as a sin.
Tell me, why would God create humankind knowing full well what he would do. You're so stuck on prophecies and current event's you're not looking at the big picture or asking the right questions. If God knows things before they even happen, why create them? Why create someone he knows will grow to be a criminal? Why create humankind, knowing one day He'll cause worldwide genocide and wipe them all out? Your prophecies suggest that he knew what he would be doing long before he even created existence itself. He knew he would be sending people to hell! What kind of loving God does that!?
You mention that there's a special place awaiting certain individuals! in my eyes no individual should go to hell. Not a murderer, not a thief, not a liar, homosexual, blasphemer, adulterer, no one! If all this is real, no one is at fault but the devil! We should be blaming the devil for the trick he played and it should be him that suffers! We are people that are suffering because we didn't get to choose. Adam and eve had their chance and the rest of us are born into sin.
You say God came to die for us, I don't even know why he would have to. God, an all powerful being needed to come as a man to create salvation for us when all he needs to do is will a way. Why does he need a man to create salvation? Is he only limited to that one way? That doesn't suggest an all powerful God! In fact, this seems so imperfect in fact God doesn't seem any different from the rest of us. Think about it. Did manifesting himself in the flesh make it easier or harder for people to believe in him? Before he worked with humans directly, he struck down men on the spot, people worked miracles, His voice boomed across mountains. Then, he came to earth, died and now we got to trust a book that didn't come forth until centuries later after his death, a book Jesus himself didn't write? How are we supposed to trust this book? If I wrote "You're going to be murdered" and sent it to you by mail, how would you feel? Would you take it seriously? You'd get paranoid right and possibly call the police for protection or investigation or something, right? How do you know the letter isn't in jest? How do you know if it's serious or not?
"we are FAR from perfect (confess our sins). Finally, you do realize Christians/atheists will NEVER settle this debate, right? I will tell you why: God would not speak of "faith" so much in the bible if either side could present CONCRETE physical evidence."
Anyone who states any human is perfect is a fool. We do not contest that. That would also imply the bible isn't perfect because it was crafted by humans and is apparent by it's contradictions. Of course we'll never settle this debate and only because of you and your claims without lack of evidence. What's funny is when people make good points against some of the arguments Christian's bring up, you dismiss it. you don't have an answer and revert to "you've been warned," "i'll pray for you," "you've smacked Jesus in the face," as your go to answers. You can't admit when you've been beat, you just wait until you (or life) beat yourselves (explained further down on people who backslide). Doesn't matter how much evidence that is brought forth from those opposing religion, because your argument is based on something that can't be proven, the debate will continue on.
"After all, one needs faith to believe in something one cannot see, touch, taste or feel"
Sounds like a schizophrenic has more reason claim to believe something is real than you do. Riddle me this, I've seen those who've claimed to have faith for a long time eventually walk away. Some claim knowledge, some claim a life-threatening event. Doesn't even have to be that big, some say they still believe, but they've turn back to worldly ways, stop going to church over something as little as stress. How would someone who've had such a strong faith, believe in God so heavily and claim to have heard the voice of God turn away so readily knowing what's at stake?
I swear you must be a dang masochist or something.