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Kind of depressing ... (rant on clients)
10 years ago
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I'll break it up into three parts.
1. Up until recently I had exercised trust and faith in clients by providing sketchwork first, many "virgin" clients I've had really appreciated this. I always knew it would be likely I'd get screwed from it and would just suck it up and revise my process. I've been doing this for years or something so I'm very lucky to have got this far with it.
The very last commission client when I previously had - I verified he was still ready to start the commission and we talked, I did the sketch he asked for revisions and I did. Then he turned around and said he doesn't like it or whatever. I should mention that I have always been willing to completely change the artwork style, pose, etc so there was no reason for him not to continue when I'd revise it to hell and back. More than not I provide at least a couple sketches for them to choose from. I politely asked if he'd be willing to send any small donation for the sketchwork and he said no, in ruder words than that.
So now I exercise taking half down before starting work, I liked how things were before but it just doesn't work. I also used to do the "waiting list" but that doesn't work either (not everyone still has the funds/desire for the image months after asking about it and that's totally understandable). So going forward I'll do commissions slots maybe 2 at a time.
2. The YCHs I do have never made enough to make it work it so I'll probably not do those going forward. They kind of arise from me playing around with drawing and getting a pose or idea I really like, then not having the appropriate characters I post it seeing if people would be interested.
The last YCH I held, the winning bidder the next day said they're no longer in the position to go forward. I have always been very considerate/understanding of people and their positions so that's fine but now the second bidder isn't responding so I don't even know what to do with that. I guess I'll post it again later and see how it does. TwT I know people don't generally like YCH auctions so there's probably no sympathy for me on that, hehe.
3. Along the lines of being understanding to clients, I have been working on a very ... very ... very long and exhausting ref sheet set for someone. As I just finished all of it (something of a nightmare and I'm never doing complex character designs and ref sheet sets again) he says he's had an unfortunate accident which, at this time, puts me at a loss for a few hundred dollars.
This client may still follow through but with these other things combined I'm feeling not good, and my faith in people has kind of turned sour. All I can do, as I have ever done, is suck it up and change how things are done. LEssons learned and happy smiles going forward ~
In an effort to lighten my own mood I'll mention some positive things:
Firstly I'm excited to be going forward with commissions again. I kind of completed that side project I was working on that was my reason for closing commission in the first place so I'll open those again soon (probably next month). I'm confident going forward these will be far better experiences for the adjustments I'll have made.
Secondly
vagabondbastard needed a new tablet (if anyone paid attention) and offered super awesome commissions for super cheap prices and I nabbed one, super stoked.
Thirdly, while I was not offering commissions I still got notes from a few friends asking for them anyway. It's refreshing that I can still get work when I'm not even advertising for it. Return clients - I love you.
Thanks everyone for being a part of my life, I'm also slowly climbing my way to 4k watchers and ready to do a giveaway to celebrate when I get there. \o/
1. Up until recently I had exercised trust and faith in clients by providing sketchwork first, many "virgin" clients I've had really appreciated this. I always knew it would be likely I'd get screwed from it and would just suck it up and revise my process. I've been doing this for years or something so I'm very lucky to have got this far with it.
The very last commission client when I previously had - I verified he was still ready to start the commission and we talked, I did the sketch he asked for revisions and I did. Then he turned around and said he doesn't like it or whatever. I should mention that I have always been willing to completely change the artwork style, pose, etc so there was no reason for him not to continue when I'd revise it to hell and back. More than not I provide at least a couple sketches for them to choose from. I politely asked if he'd be willing to send any small donation for the sketchwork and he said no, in ruder words than that.
So now I exercise taking half down before starting work, I liked how things were before but it just doesn't work. I also used to do the "waiting list" but that doesn't work either (not everyone still has the funds/desire for the image months after asking about it and that's totally understandable). So going forward I'll do commissions slots maybe 2 at a time.
2. The YCHs I do have never made enough to make it work it so I'll probably not do those going forward. They kind of arise from me playing around with drawing and getting a pose or idea I really like, then not having the appropriate characters I post it seeing if people would be interested.
The last YCH I held, the winning bidder the next day said they're no longer in the position to go forward. I have always been very considerate/understanding of people and their positions so that's fine but now the second bidder isn't responding so I don't even know what to do with that. I guess I'll post it again later and see how it does. TwT I know people don't generally like YCH auctions so there's probably no sympathy for me on that, hehe.
3. Along the lines of being understanding to clients, I have been working on a very ... very ... very long and exhausting ref sheet set for someone. As I just finished all of it (something of a nightmare and I'm never doing complex character designs and ref sheet sets again) he says he's had an unfortunate accident which, at this time, puts me at a loss for a few hundred dollars.
This client may still follow through but with these other things combined I'm feeling not good, and my faith in people has kind of turned sour. All I can do, as I have ever done, is suck it up and change how things are done. LEssons learned and happy smiles going forward ~
In an effort to lighten my own mood I'll mention some positive things:
Firstly I'm excited to be going forward with commissions again. I kind of completed that side project I was working on that was my reason for closing commission in the first place so I'll open those again soon (probably next month). I'm confident going forward these will be far better experiences for the adjustments I'll have made.
Secondly
vagabondbastard needed a new tablet (if anyone paid attention) and offered super awesome commissions for super cheap prices and I nabbed one, super stoked. Thirdly, while I was not offering commissions I still got notes from a few friends asking for them anyway. It's refreshing that I can still get work when I'm not even advertising for it. Return clients - I love you.
Thanks everyone for being a part of my life, I'm also slowly climbing my way to 4k watchers and ready to do a giveaway to celebrate when I get there. \o/
Just so you know, you'll have no trouble from me when doing commission work. *^^*
I look forward to working with you in the future if you do so choose to give me that honour! :3
Not that I don't want to trust people, but I can't, and have been advised by many to not trust.
The majority I'm sure wouldn't flake out, but there are just enough to where you have to take precautions.
As for the person that requested the reference sheet, I'd say ask them for at least some sort of partial payment for the work you have done already. And in the future, take payment up front, and only refund partial when work has been done.
It's only fair to you and the work you have put into it.
If they don't want to do a partial, I'd say auction off the reference sheet sketch as a ych. I know you're scared to do those, but they really pay off sometimes.
YCH's usually only do well at the beginning to middle of the month. I try to avoid doing any towards this time of the month unless desperate. D:
I think the YCH did particularly bad as the result of school starting, it was posted on the 11th of this month, but good of you to mention as I was wondering what times of the month would be best for that stuff. Next is to figure out if there's a better time of year for it. :3
And really truly unfair for you as you've done the work and should get your times worth in payment.
Yeah, school starting is a really bad time of year for commissions/artists taking commission. I agree though, best time is income tax time/ march-June.
And I mean ... the ref sheet was something so different from anything I've done or will do again, a very custom and unique character design and the ref sheets weren't even ... yea. I might not have to adjust for it given that I'll never let it happen again. x_x
So don't lose hope, buddy. Just know there are some rock covering every diamond in life.
Tx buddy <3
FU be chillin with the squad.
Only problem with this is someone might get the work and report you anyway. This will freeze paypal until you can prove your innocence.
It's a weight of pros/cons. I personally prefer to pay in full up front, mostly so I can budget appropriately and not screw an artist by backing out last minute. Half/half is a good compromise. I've always hated paying upon receipt of art because then the artist can complete it whenever and maybe I won't still have the funds earmarked by then.
I don't know your turnaround time but all artists I've worked with who want payment upon art delivery take months or more. And as a customer, I was never really cool with that. I would rather pay a premium to get it in a few weeks at most.
Anyway, I'm sorry you've been having such a bad time. Hopefully your new way of doing stuff will work out!
When I started I had motivational things to consider, it's hard to get paid first and do work after. I think artists who take it all up front then make clients wait for a really really long time might dismiss the value of money they got for "nothing". I am confident that things going forward will work out awesome though, thanks! :3
Someday... *glares at empty bank account*
but I had to draw the line somewhere
Now I just need to attract some customers since I haven't drawn in a while. Haha
Auctions are inherently a gamble; a seller may get more than they thought possible or you might get less than what you would normally charge for such a commission. Some artists are successful at offering flat-rate YCHs, but then they don't get any more than they would for a normal commission.
Its very unfortunate when kind people (like you) offer sketches beforehand and then you get no form of pay to compensate time taken. And the sad thing is - it only takes one person to make you never trust again. I love to please all of my clients but you can only get burned so many times before you lose faith in people.
With YCHs, i was very lenient in the past with payments and that got me nowhere. Then you have the people who don't reply to your notes and all of that... and ruin things further.
Some people never appreciate the amount of time and effort artists put into their work, and that sucks BIG TIME. The majority of artists on here never 'make' money because of the time spent on their pics; and lots of people take advantage of 'cheap prices' and don't want to pay 'too much', even though they would be getting a quality picture in return.
The thing i have always loved about you - you are a fantastic artist with quite a following; yet you still take the time to reply to comments. Not only that, but you STILL love to please your clients, even after all of this time (and you have probably been burnt a few times along the way). You have always inspired me to be a better artists - not only in skill set but also as a person. Sometimes i see high-profile artists who post their work and never take the time to respond to people- no matter how mundane their comment was (or sometimes the high-profile person has a 'god complex' and doesn't respond at all). But you are a caring, compassionate (and amazingly skilled) artist who has always taken the time, and i respect that and aspire to that.
Your words are so touching, thank you!It means so much <3
Nicer things than I'd ever say about myself. ;w;
Let's strive to be better artists together! o/ (and people, being good people is good too)
Paying in full upfront seems to be the way to go in most situations.
Art is a luxury. If you can't afford it, don't get it.
My only current annoyance with this is that I did pay an artist $180 upfront for art almost six months ago. She is still taking and doing other people's commissions, YCH's, and commission sales(in which I could have gotten the same commission at half the price), and I have still yet to receive any sort of status on it (despite asking for one three times in the past five months).
I also keep maybe almost annoyingly in touch with clients during the process, I know that it does so much to keep in contact. Did the artist not respond to the status inquiries or just didn't have any progression to report on it? Not responding to the messages is an even worse thing for artists to do, so sorry to hear about your experiences. :'<
I like to try the most fair action (with the assumption I might get screwed again in the future) first then adjust only if necessary. I'll start with the half down and see how it goes. With the "betrayal" of so many artists I hear about it's totally understandable that it makes clients uncomfortable, I mean people who quit commissioning because of bad experiences may very well be hurting myself in a roundabout way. x_x
I don't press it because I don't want to be a dick nor do I want rushed art, but then nothing happens and another month goes by... and another... as more commissions are taken and completed for others. Quite frustrating.
Also building up repeat clients and having friends who commission me is a sure way to the trust thing not even being a problem any longer. :3
I've had too many artists rip me off when I pay in full upfront (3 so far), I guess there is less motivation to finish it on their part if they got paid in full before even doing anything, and there are tons of flaky commissioners out there too that will refuse to pay till the end and then usually run with it.
When you do show them a sketch or color proof work, always do it with a reduced resolution picture until you receive the final payment, then you give them the full resolution finished product once you get paid.
Its just like any other contract work and you should have an invoice/contract and everything all agreed upon before starting.
The only slightly weird/different thing I've done is given the rough sketch before all that, which is quite a quick/very rough sketch, like a 5-15 minute thing. My practice on that ranges from stick figures to full detailed sketch depending on the complexity of everything. If it's just a bust of a very simple character I do the whole thing because it's still very quick, then more stick-figureish if there's multiple characters with full bodies and stuff.
In the case where I did the sketchwork and the guy bailed ... I did make it very low res and add my watermark, stealing the sketch wasn't the problem. He simply didn't like his character in non-chibi form and wanted to try out something different. The lame thing is that he was totally ready to put half down right when we started talking but I said he didn't have to (because that's how I've done things). So why someone would be ready to pay, get sketchwork done, have the opportunity to change everything about it in every way ... and just not ... it doesn't matter I'm not going with it any more haha. ^_^
With all of these cases I explain the process to everyone, everything is agreed on by both people. Short of actually making people fill out contracts (and be willing to pursue legal shit if they break it, which really wouldn't be worth the hassle) there's nothing I can really do. The only thing I could do that would guarantee my side being clear is asking for it all up front, which, even for people with bad experiences should know that I do and have practiced professionalism for all the work that I do. :/
If you post that YCH back up, make sure the winner and runner up are barred so they can't just turn around and potentially get it for cheaper. I've had people do this and it ticked me off to no end. Rough, but they backed out of it in the first place.
I'm sorry you went through all this halabaloo. =(
I've contemplated half and half, but my life is like dodging fast balls. Never enough time.
What do you mean by barring the winner/runner up? I can only imagine asking them to pay right away but that's kind of what I did with the last one. x_x
Every YCH experience I had before this was great (as far as the winner following through) so it's sad my record with that got ruined too. Aside from feeling bad for a while I can't overall be too sorry for the experiences so long as I adjust for it in the future, like it was inevitable for these things to happen at some point.
I mean like, either not let them bid again, or they'd not be allowed to bid unless they're bidding the same.
Art on here is hard. =( Sometimes it's smooth sailing, sometimes it's like dodging boulders. And tbh my sketches need to get toned down. XD When you take 7 hours on a sketch then there's a problem, haha.