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Very well then.
10 years ago
General
http://pastebin.com/b6RJrQCv
Here's the screen shots of note i sent : http://i.imgur.com/p3ay6uj.png
and the note i received : http://i.imgur.com/jwmomE1.png
http://i.imgur.com/1pfHEC0.png
welp. since he opened my note on public, ok then.
Now let's see who's greedy and backfireing c:
Kiki and our team will handle this soon.
...this might create new furry drama...but i can't stand spreading wrong stories on public.
Mick is just too tired and lazy to prepare legal stuffs.
and that's why our team supports her, so she can keep create her own works.
we were been quiete because we didn't wanted to make this huge problem.
but that guy is keep spreading wrong informations and vicious rumor on public, i have to do this.
P.S. People who have question, please contact
pentalis. he is also member of Vilous official staff, he is smarter then me, his english is better then me. i'm just an amature translator that translate Jap<->Eng.
Thank you
p.s2 people who looking for removed comments.
https://archive.is/FH7ra
https://archive.is/LsZ9i
Thanks to
Curus-Keel
Here's the screen shots of note i sent : http://i.imgur.com/p3ay6uj.png
and the note i received : http://i.imgur.com/jwmomE1.png
http://i.imgur.com/1pfHEC0.png
welp. since he opened my note on public, ok then.
Now let's see who's greedy and backfireing c:
Kiki and our team will handle this soon.
...this might create new furry drama...but i can't stand spreading wrong stories on public.
Mick is just too tired and lazy to prepare legal stuffs.
and that's why our team supports her, so she can keep create her own works.
we were been quiete because we didn't wanted to make this huge problem.
but that guy is keep spreading wrong informations and vicious rumor on public, i have to do this.
P.S. People who have question, please contact
pentalis. he is also member of Vilous official staff, he is smarter then me, his english is better then me. i'm just an amature translator that translate Jap<->Eng.Thank you
p.s2 people who looking for removed comments.
https://archive.is/FH7ra
https://archive.is/LsZ9i
Thanks to
Curus-Keel
To bad we're dealing with furries.
I really would expect this from someone who made a game like that, honestly.
lmfao
Oh, i have to pay royalty? how greedy you are. now proove me i can't use your creation legaly in 48 hours."
Mick : what ever. don't bother me. leave me alone. i don't need your money. go away.
"how rude! that only proove you don't have any legal rights to stop me!"
^this is what happening right now i guess. poor mick.
http://i.imgur.com/jwmomE1.png
EXPOSURE
hope you can resolve that quickly with this douche .
Not only that, but the stress they are forcing the staff. Mick made it, the time stamps in history show that. Fucking idiot people, it is very apparent that all they care about is money. I find it funny that when the fellow got the warning, somehow he went from not knowing a sergal, to all of a sudden saying he could keep the sergal.
He is such a liar e_e
Don't let them have another inch, stand proud and chin up, the truth will always win, in the end <3
Lol.
Don't try to worry too much, you and the others.
Some FB furfag is the least of your worries.
And still calling Mick a "he"? Not knowing what Sergals are?
It's almost negligent to not have the answers these days with everything being more open once more.
and i'm not worrying too much. i just feel bad that they were kept doing those shit posting on public.
I was ignoring them and almost forgot about those happening. but then he sent me a note again :c
I remember he opened a YCH Auction for a new character...(it's gone and don't know what happened) but then they want to put sergal back?? <_>
I don't care about money and such. just i don't like, they are keep trying to pushing, threatening, bullying us by using 'legal request' and such...
What do they want? a sweet sweet revenge and victory? ~_~ we don't need anything from them. just leave Mick and her creation alone.
I know there is a language barrier, but his own notes don't even make much sense.
He is just trying to play like he is intelligent and everyone must have an IP form for their creations, otherwise he will use them as he please. He is just trying to sound fancy with legal jargon.
Typical basic bitch fur tactics.
To be fair, even though Mick doesn't want royalties from this guy, let this be a lesson that it may be time for Mick to file her creations for IP protection. The Creative Commons can't protect her world from people bastardizing her ideas forever. No more than they already have.
You should talk to her about it. Do some research.
Well, copyright holds since the moment of creation, it is not necessary to file a petition, so, her works are already protected. As for other forms of protection, we've been discussing this as well.
Calix below eloquently explained how the same Creative Commons license Klace tried to use on his defence would force him to freely release his game to be redistributed, he didn't even bother to understand the license.
And I am a firm believer of the power a CC license gives their creators, however many (such as what ya'll are dealing with) do not respect CC's and want something more real.
I just figured by now something a little more stronger than a CC can be waved in times like these.
What exactly that is, I do not know. I am not educated much further after that fact.
믹양반한테 안부 전해줘. 힘내라고.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/417990/
I looked at the trailer and the character mentioned definitely looks like a sergal. I can understand the issue, but it is difficult to act on it without copyright stuff. The most I think you can do is spread the word that this person has stolen the sergal design and is pretty much making money from it... I don't know :/
pretty sure Klace is just playing victim because he knows his fans will fall for it
And even if he keep use Sergals in the game, i guess that will be not good for his reputation.. and eventually, 'expose' sergal as they said. spitting his own face... U_U
anyway.. i don't want to be personal to this... i don't know. if i keep saying like 'they are the bad', then i might be the same one who playing victim or furry drama..what so ever...
just best wiches for both. Mick and Klace <: /
There is also the hairs, on a sergal, but hair extensions exist so why the heck not...
But they still got a large poof on their chest, so they would be northern, hence a great friends!
I'm sure you know a friendly northern, eating slabs to raw meat and screaming like an animal.
They make such good friends, be assured of that! *coughdangerousanimalscough*
Seriously, how can one pretend to give exposure while pissing on the canon?
(all my love to mick, trying to translate the new age canon to french o/)
I don't know what to understand what those human are thinking.
I'm working on a document regarding this visual novel, its developer, and their business practices.
The document is in need of a revamp, and I think this would be an interesting addition to add to it in regards to their behaviour towards copyright laws.
Would you be interested in sending me screenshots of the messages? It'd be much more convincing than a pastebin log.
No problem if you're not interested or don't want to :3
Have a good one~
then he admit and remove sergal from game. i thought this case ended there. but seems like he've been spreading about this case and playing victim(or cover them good whatever),
make people to hate Mick and Sergal. and now he's keep pushing and threaten by mentioning law and legal stuff. Mick and I don't have much knowledge about laws.
but one sure thing is Sergal is her creation, and she's receiving royalties from conscientious people. (such as KZK SecondLife avatar maker)
btw, mick said didn't want money from them. so we are not acting greedy or such. we are not trying to win or such(win from what? haters? childish). just saying leave her and her creation alone.
I don't hate them. i understand his hard works about game developing, but i..don't like they are keep mocking us and such. because it's not true. i didn't wanted to open this on public because i believed truth won't change.
but i saw them keep trying to make a new furry drama and trying to harassing our reputation. (which is..actually harassing their own reputation too)
So. as a kind of vent, and to show the truth, i wrote this journal. of course this might look i'm also 'playing victim' and engage in furry drama. i'm also just human, not a holy man...
Also, he doesn't understand laws either, because the laws he cited against Mick also implicate that he has to distribute Major\Minor under the exact same license if he wants to add Sergals to it. This means that anyone could take Major\Minor, make tiny or huge edits to it, and he'd have no legal ground to do anything about it. Even if all they did was fix some typos or change tiny bits of dialogue and then distributed it for free. Or at least, any chapter that includes the Sergal character.
and the note i received : http://i.imgur.com/jwmomE1.png
I hope his game does become successful, and I have no ill wishes for him. However I wish he would be more mature in this.
https://www.facebook.com/klaceybunny
Is this true?
https://www.facebook.com/klaceybunn.....8274120069091?
Picture of comments where he says he received permission
http://imgur.com/l4T1JT0
If you read the screenshot shown by Lime, on the list of received notes you will see that Klace made demands with a time limit on them. Upon receiving no answer, he went to celebrate the deeds of his imaginary "Public Relations Manager", and claimed to have solved the problem.
He's claiming that Mick has no copyright over her own creation. Mick wants nothing to do with him, and he's using the lack of an answer to continue using the character without permission, without royalties and without credit.
This comes to show the kind of person he is.
Also, the part where he said that he got permission is a factually a lie, since he has received no response.
PS: he's lying a lot in that facebook link http://imgur.com/l4T1JT0 , this guy has no honor. "But we were able to talk it out and get it back which is good", this didn't happen. "The rumor down the grapevine says that I removed it out of greed because I didn't want to pay the creator. This helps clear that up as well" shameless, denying the thing he's exactly doing. Onix Angel then wonders what made Mick change her mind. Well, nothing, she hasn't changed her mind; Klace just made all that up.
I know what was said in the screenshots, I had already read it all.
I asked the question, because a lot of things can happen in a few days, and I genuinely didn't know if the situation might had changed or not.
So if this was untrue, I figured it should be at least be brought to the staff and Mick's attention what he's doing and saying to the puplic.
This journal has sort of become the source of official information on this issue from Mick and the team, so by making your question and including the screenshots you helped inform others as well.
As a person representing Mick, you're saying no response was given to give Klace's latest demands, meaning he was not expressly given permission to use Sergals?
Just want that one part to be clarified in its own comment, as a simple "No, permission was not given since these screenshots were taken" or the like, since that'll give a definitive answer to this particular issue.
R: No, permission was not given since these screenshots were taken.
Q: And now?
R: Still not.
In your own words, "Screenshots don't prove anything"
Because you're an incredibly scummy person who thinks he can get away with it.
http://i.imgur.com/4GnfnZz.png?1
(inb4 screenshots don't prove anything, yadda yadda)
Call me a skeptic.
Message or not, the rest of their response still stands.
You were never given permission, only where to find information.
To repeat what they said: Absence of refusal is not consent. Until they agree, you have not been given the green light.
I still stand by the opinion that you were not given permission yet. You jumped the gun on that announcement.
Speaking of distracting from points, you skipped by the point that you stated you would put the Sergal in if you received no response.
Just wanted to point that out.
This situation is really stupid. I'm only remaining this composed because I have plenty of music to listen to. Let me tell you, it gets much deeper than this.
Might as well just keep listening to this.
Good luck, Vilous staff. You know Mick way better than I do. Perhaps I'll make a game that treats the material of Vilous with actual respect, and I'll contact you people about it first. It's been in the idea stage for a while.
Klace, you really are an idiot.
Either he removes the sergal, or he pays Mick royalities. Shit's simple but Klace is such a cheap asshole that he doesn't want to give a creator their royalties since it's their copyrighted creation being used in this disgusting sparklefur abomination of a visual novel.
For the record, here's the archive with the last few posts of Klace inact.
PS: for those lost in this sea of hidden messages: my last post, the one that begins with "After talking with Mick and Kiki, this is their official response:" was in direct response to Klace's post that says "I'm going to assume the answer is yes because you said that's splendid up there ^ "
Now, having said that: do you understand there's a language barrier here?. We know the way Mick writes English. Her message is NOT giving you permission, however, it is true that it is also not DENYING you permission. This is the way Mick writes.
Do not interpret a lack of denial for an approval.
Also, you were given that exact same information by KP-YOSHI before, and it is clear in the screenshots quoted above that you refused to pay royalties then, and called Mick greedy.
Now you sent her a message, and received neither a denial or an approval, and you decided to take this as express permission?.
Moreover, do you really plan to pay royalties?, If you do, that's splendid. Why did you not do this from the start?.
What is so different now that you were directed in a personal note to the exact same place you rejected before?
However, in that note, you have not received either approval or denial.
Just so you know.
First of all, I want to clarify something:
Klace made this demand from Mick http://i.imgur.com/jwmomE1.png read the last message.
"Does Mick hold a legally binding copyright claiming ownership of the Sergal species? Or do they have any sort of proof that royalties are owed by law (not just upon request?) If so, such document or proof of ownership must be shown to me within 48 hours. If no document can be shown, we will be placing the Sergal back into Major/Minor"
This was his demand. We were told that this demand would not be responded because the demand was unreasonable. Mick owns her creation, Vilous, sergals, etc; she doesn't need to send him proof. Copyright exists from the moment of creation, there's no need to apply for that protection, and there's no need to show "proof of ownership" to defend a creation even in court.
We were told to not respond to this demand (it follows, by logic, that she wouldn't respond to it).
With respect to that, I said to other people this:
"Also, the part where he said that he got permission is a factually a lie, since he has received no response."
To his //demand//, the one where he requested legal documents, he couldn't have received a response, so I said that which I said above.
However, he has proven that he noted Mick, and it is true that I did not know of this, and I did not know she responded to that note. This note, however, didn't respond to that //demand// I listed above. And while it is true that I did not ask Mick before posting my response -- This was because this team was made to handle things for her,
[RULE OF MY FA NOTE]
*Don't ask me about Sergals and other Vilous setting.
*Don't ask me permission about creating Sergals and other my species character/fursona.
*Don't ask me about copyright issue.
There's also a journal explaining what our role is.
Klace seems to have ignored that request, and sent her a note about the issue anyway.
And he got a response, this one:
http://imgur.com/KSqlCN5
Here Mick is neither giving him approval or denial of his use of sergals. She says that "payment is obligation", "but compulsion doesn't do", she meant to say that there's no use in trying to force people to pay. However, she did say that payment is an obligation. She is neither giving approval or denial, this is the way she writes. Mick directed Klace to information that was given to him by KP-YOSHI many days ago.
Klace requested an apology from me, this one:
<<I would appreciate an apology for all the attacks happening to me in this thread because you AS a representative of Mick posted without double checking or confirming facts. You are supposed to be the voice of Mick. You acted without checking with her and brought lots of unnecessary drama into this. >>
Klace, I apologize for making it seem as if you had not talked to Mick at all, this was done out of ignorance. I explained the reasons for that earlier in this message.
Now, Klace, I would like to ask something from you: if you intend to pay royalties, why did you say all the things you said before?, the things you said here: http://i.imgur.com/jwmomE1.png
Mick simply redirected you to information that KP-YOSHI gave you before, it's not a new deal. Why change your stance now?
http://pastebin.com/reU6dvYM
(I'm sorry but FurAffinity didn't display the post when I put the Japanese directly here)
I was told that they sent you an English version of their answer, translated by them. Their translation is here:
==============================================
Thank you for Understand.
And I ask you 2 points - If you want use Sergal again, please read official wiki.
For example Sergal has specific color, and female doesn't have a breast.
Parody is free, but the wrong information isn't suitable because you use the name of "Sergal", when you have regard to original.
Another one - Honestly, did you get the income of much by a game and were you hesitated/scare in the payment of copyright? When you were consulting about that earlier, we had accepted. we don't think big price on this case.
Thank you. Mick39 & Kiki-UMA
==========================================
We will later post (in this thread) a translation done by a translator friend. I suggest you wait for that translation if you are not sure about what Kiki and Mick meant to say. In any case, the Japanese original stays there to clear misunderstandings.
mick has had these terms clearly written on her profile for some time now, and i don't believe a legal document is required to say 'stop using my creation for commercial use.' in america those works are automatically protected.. not sure about the situation overseas though. @_@
perhaps mick could come up with a TOS statement regarding use of vilous species, i have one that i post publicly wherever my art is shared so that everybody can be aware of it. anyways, good luck to you guys with sorting this out- it can be irritating.
Anyways, as one of Klace's backers, I do hope all of this is cleared up with minimal damage, as all of the other mistakes have. I wish to see his project succeed to the best of his abilities rather than it being torn to shreds by a community that supposedly should come together to support and provide insight into improving skills.
we contacted him politely from the first time, and we are keep trying to act polite. we didn't spreaded the false information, we didn't do any negative campaign, we didn't insulted him.
our team is also discussing with Mick directly, but because of language barrier and time difference and etc (her personal life), it's taking time. (and we also don't want to drag this too long)
As for the spreading of false info, we have the Chan boards to thank for that. About 75% of the info I read on those involves stuff like "Klace is filth, he steals artwork from artists and claim them as his own!" or "We have all this outdated evidence on Klace! Here are screenshots of things that don't exist anymore in his game!" Both claims, so far, can easily be found on this journal.
Then you have disturbers like Curus-Keel, above, that have gone and tried turning friends against each other for little reason other than one friend happened to like the game, such as here... http://postimg.org/image/6tk08kfc1/full/
There are so many people keep speaking about these and that on the internet. I also saw many people saying bad things about Mick, and also Klace.
The more you care about those bad things, the more you will get hurt. I was also felt really bad to reading those nasty things...
so i stopped caring about those, and care only about what was happened, what is happening, and what will happen..
Regards. KP.
p.s. i forgot to reply on your comment directly, and just wrote this on my own journal. so i hide it.
Yes, he's saving logs, which is okay. But he has a history of using those and putting negative context on them with no reasoning. I figure he's just looking to destroy the game and come back as some sort of hero for the people and further his own agenda, which is easy to do with some new Indy developers. He's always talking about making mods and boasting he can make things of better quality, so the guess is plausible.
To put it simply, creators should support creators; be it with advice or a simple thumbs up and pat on the back. Now, we have people trying to make creators fight one another, which is what none of us want.
What I think should be done at this point: Klace should edit the character that started this into something not resembling a Sergal (which he had done already at this point), and Mick just nod her head, wish the best of luck and move on. Both parties apologize for the misunderstanding, and work to stop people from making scathing, uneducated slurs about the other parties.
If they do not accept we will make some modifications.
I never would have thought I'd see the day where offering to pay backfired.
Pentalis also apologized for acting and lying without consulting Mick.
Because I did indeed receive a response from Mick, and they publicly called me out without even asking or looking into if it was true.
They just assumed it was false and called me a liar which caused more undue hatred towards me.