Be careful of where you tread. I see no "flagrant disrespect" here, but this smells suspiciously like ableism.

Those who choose to join this group know better than you. They know full well if their condition qualifies as a chronic illness. If you're going to draw a line in the sand and not let sufferers decide, where are you going to draw it? Does CFS qualify as a chronic physical illness? Fibro? Some of these invisible illnesses have their roots in the brain. Does that make them mental illnesses and therefore not worthy of this group?

What matters is that we have something in common, living with something that affects and limits our day-to-day lives. What's the point of the group if it's not open to those that feel they belong? I understand how you could see it as "disrespectful", given those who are mentally disabled may not know what it's like to live with a physical illness. But on the other paw, you must remember that you may not know what it's like to live with their particular condition.

In contrast to those in wheelchairs, those that live with invisible illnesses get a particularly raw deal. It's disappointing to see them receiving the same treatment here.

What are you talking about? Fibro and ones like it are VERY real physical diseases, and I in fact have it. I support those with invisible illnesses completley. Invisible illnesses are incredibly real and it really hurtsto have you accus me of such things espically considering I face ashit ton of ableism for my own. Did you also miss the fact that Im mentally disabled AND ill too? I understand.

Im talking about things strictly classified as mental illnesses such as GAD and depression and the like. This is not a group for mental illness. However if you have those things and youre also physically disabled/ill Im here to support. Im here to support straight up just mental illness too but this is nit the group for it.

-CARVORE

Well, I'm sorry if I offended you, but I'm merely echoing what others have already said. People have been and *will* be offended if you exclude them from a group where they feel they belong.

My point about being unable to draw a clear line between mental and physical illnesses still stands. Instead of excluding people from your group, I suggest you focus more on sign-posting them to other groups where they might find people with more in common.

I can't even understand why you feel the need to exclude people. It's not as if there's a sudden influx of people with depression or other illnesses you deem unworthy. In fact, looking at the shout box on your page, *every single one* of them has at least one illness which cannot be considered mental. Why do you suddenly feel the need for this PSA?

You are not on a moral highground for trying to bully a group owner into giving everyone who asks for it a participation trophy. You can't call someone ableist when you're making the comparison that neuroatypical illnesses are somehow exactly comparable to physical disabilities- of which I have both- they are very different. And physical illnesses are very hard to self-dx. Physical disabilities and chronic physical pain need visibility, their own visibility, and that's what the group is for, not for people who want to command a group not made for them, and make it about them.

As they say on le tumblrs.... I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me?

I'm not bullying anyone into anything. I'm expressing my disappointment that the group owner is choosing to *actively exclude* certain people from the group, a group which members normally decide for themselves whether they fit the description. The established norm is that FA groups are open to anyone who feels they fit the group description.

If you are in favour of exclusion, just how far do you want to see it taken? Will we have to provide written evidence from a qualified doctor in order to join? Will only certain illnesses on a pre-approved list be allowed? (incidentally, much like how "invisible illness" sufferers were treated through much of the 20th century, when their illnesses were not recognised as disabilities)

Since you used the term "neuroatypical", I assume Fibro also qualifies as a neuroatypicality and therefore all the Fibro furs should be kicked out the group too? If not, how about those with major autism-related sensory integration issues, where even the sensation of air moving against their skin feels like someone is cutting them with knives? Or is their constant pain "different" to a Fibro sufferer's pain and therefore doesn't qualify?

My point is that the only *fair* way to determine who can join the group is to allow anyone to join, and let them use their infinitely-better experience of their condition to decide whether they qualify.

Then join a different group. This one is obviously not for you, is all I can say. You aren't the spokesperson of what is fair or isn't for everyone, and you take offense at certain illnesses not being included as a personal attack rather than a decisive split between two very different kinds of illnesses. Everyone doesn't deserve to always be included and paid attention to. Make a group for other chronic illnesses if you think one should exist and be all-inclusive. But I don't see why people are always obsessed with having to have all of the attention all of the time. If you disagree, feel free to go somewhere else, because the comparison between the two is sort of irrelevant in this discussion. This is just a public forum and participation isn't mandatory.

Frankly, disabilities aren't always illnesses, and illnesses aren't always disability. Anxiety makes life hard, but leaves someone completely able. Someone disabled without legs isn't ill- less able, but different to someone in chronic pain, fatigue, etc that will get worse over time, reduce lifespan, and cost thousands of dollars in healthcare. I have Hashimotos, juvenile arthritis, chronic migraines, delayed sleep disorder, and finally (!!) gad and ptsd. They are all debilitating but the experience of chronic physical illness is unique in its presentation comparatively to mental health, and with the rise of self-dx'ing teenagers, even genuinely mentally (ill!) people can't find true company to share in. Perhaps invest in creating a forum of your own for that, if that's what you're desperate to find. But I don't think that's the purpose of this particular group, and it isn't really yours to command as such. Be proactive in solving your problems instead of blaming an owner for having a vision and forum for one specific purpose that, apparently, got appropriated by inappropriate diagnoses. Why should someone conform to your needs and not, say, mine? Is that really the more fair option.. because you want it more?

I want to be clear that I have no personal agenda. Like you, I watch this group because I suffer from both physical and mental health conditions. I don't know anyone who is watching this group for mental health reasons alone - and I see no evidence to suggest they even exist (see the shout box).

I'm not personally offended by the actions of anyone here. I am, however, very disappointed. While I'm no "spokesperson," I feel it's totally appropriate to voice my opinion.

To clarify why I felt the term "ableism" was justified, there's this sentence in the group owner's post: "incredibly frustrated at peoples flagrant disrespect." To me, this strongly implies that people joining the group have no concept of what it's like to live with a real chronic condition. This further implies that people with mental conditions have it easier than people with physical conditions. In my opinion, that's out of order. That sentence could easily cause offence, as it has already done (see the hidden comments).

I have no problem with the group having a particular focus. However, I do feel it is unfair for the group owner to decide which individuals fit the description. Those who are suffering from a condition are quite able to decide for themselves. This is particularly true of the many conditions that have both physical and mental components (rendering it very difficult to draw a line).

Amen brother <3

Floppy, I agree with what you have to say here and you are very well spoken might I add. What we're seeing here is ableism in a nutshell. Never judge a person till you've walked a few miles in their shoes. A chronic illness is a chronic illness whether the symptoms of it are physical or mental and many, if not most of them are a combination of both. The brain is an organ just like the liver, lungs, pancreas, and heart are. We don't even really know what causes chronic physical illnesses like fibro and CFS, for all we know it could be similar to or perhaps even the same thing that causes schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. A relatively common disorder called cerebral palsy is caused by abnormalities and/or damage to the brain and the symptoms of it are primarily physical. Many mental illnesses are also caused by brain damage and/or abnormal brain wiring and they primarily present as mental and behavioural symptoms.

Fibro is more than Neuro, in the fact that it can also be debilitating physically too.

This group was created for physically ill/disabled furs.

You are arguing a mute point, mental illness and physically illness are indeed two very different things.

OP, I'd like to politely challenge your point here. Mental illness can often have physical symptoms and vice versa. Look up somatoform disorders and catatonia for example. As an individual with a chronic illness that involves both physical and mental symptoms, I feel like the name of this page is rather misleading. It's not up to you to define the term "chronic illness" because it means so many different things to different people. A name like chronicphysicallyill furs would be more appropriate. I feel like your stance is slightly ableist and to me it seems you're perpetuating some of the stigma associated with mental illnesses.

this is really disappointing. i come here to check out this group and see this journal then see the comments here. it just reinforces why most people with problems, specifically myself, dont seek out support groups. the world beats you down , you beat yourself down, then you come into a group and you see disabled furs having a go at each other because they are not the right kind of disabled. (and all the screwed up disrespectful disparaging remarks from both sides) isnt it bad enough that anyone has any kind of disability at all? the world already looks down on everyone that has one. then to see disabled furs having a go at each other in a "support group" i mean come on. isnt the point of a group like this to make people feel better not worse?