https://media.giphy.com/media/e3C4p.....9rji/giphy.gif

*shuts up and takes* :D

Gonna have to give this some thought, I am already supporting a few artist on Patreon to the tune of $70 for the five or six. I am supporting, but I like the idea of this.

No worries, if you're all tapped out it's cool! I appreciate the thought either way. :3

I prefer to support artists via direct commissions, but you're no sellout, Ru. However you're able to get paid, go for it.

I always hated artists who used patreon as a sneaky way to make extra money, as if their commissions didn't make enough. But there are a few select who don't hide their work behind a pay wall. Some artists even censor their work and post it free but only get the uncensored via patreon. I haven't supported anyone on patreon at all, BUT, I am willing to support you since you've been very kind to me and have been such a pleasure to work with in the past. It probably won't be much but anything counts right? :)
Plus I look forward to working with you again and again and again :)

Hey man, if you don't like the idea of patreon that's cool with me! It's definitely not for everyone, but I figured it was silly of me to not at least give it a go. That said if you do decide to give it a whirl, I really do appreciate the support! :3

Well I'm always willing to support you ^^

Out of the hundreds of artists I've commissioned, I've never met one who made "enough" on commissions. Barely getting by? Sure. Possibly scraping together enough for a frequently-raided rainy day fund? Rarely. Slowly sinking into ever more crushing amounts of debt? That's pretty much the majority.

Well I've seen artists who only do art who drive an expensive bmw

I'd love to see that.

Point I'm trying to make is they were able to before patreon and suddenly patreon appears and suddenly they can't pay bills. I'm doing just fine financially and I don't have a patreon

People's situations change. You can be on top of the world one day and in the gutter the next.

Seems like these big time artists suddenly change after things like this hit. I discovered most of them don't care about their fans, they just want your money. That's why it seems like they always take art for the same people because they have money.

Just my opinion

> I discovered most of them don't care about their fans

I think caring about fans and regularly taking commissions from high paying customers are not the same thing.

> That's why it seems like they always take art for the same people because they have money.

But even that said, I just don't see the problem with an artist that is delivering a service for money, and I don't see how the distinction if they don't really care about their fans really changes that acceptability?

I'm.sure many people agree with me that most of the popular ones don't give a shit about their supporters. Hell I've seen some block their watchers because they try to give constructive feedback.

> I'm.sure many people agree with me that most of the popular ones don't give a shit about their supporters.

Not the impression I've got from the popular ones I've commisioned (and hence supported). How much of these "many people" which have this opinion have genuinely "supported" by commisioning the "popular ones" to get this impression?

Do you think this might be a form of typical popularism to hate on popular things?

> Hell I've seen some block their watchers because they try to give constructive feedback.

I've seen people that simply can't handle negative feedback, regardless if constructive or not. However, there is a place for it and for most artists, it's typically not on people's commisions since it tends to making commisioners unhappy after-the-fact.

I've drawn giftart for some of my favorite artists and they blocked me instead of thanking me. And before you say that they weren't comfortable with it... They apparently love gifts from others, and what I drew for them was tame. Plus I even asked them.

I've been attacked by several popufurs and even slandered by some when I "supported" them.

There's only a small few who have not been this way, such as Ru.

> I've drawn giftart for some of my favorite artists and they blocked me instead of thanking me. And before you say that they weren't comfortable with it... They apparently love gifts from others, and what I drew for them was tame. Plus I even asked them.

That doesn't mean anything.

> I've been attacked by several popufurs and even slandered by some when I "supported" them.

So, you paid for a commission and then got assaulted?

> There's only a small few who have not been this way, such as Ru.

Honestly, nothing you've stated stands on it's own. I don't believe for a moment there isn't far more context to the events than what you're stating.

Popular people assaulting a fan after getting a commission for no reason at all other than to attack you, because they don't care about their fans... Even if you don't care, you don't just attack people because you don't care. This narrative you have provided makes no sense at all.

I know people who drive an expensive BMW but are massively in debt because they bought the thing on a loan.

It's the American way. :P

You see it a lot in Europe too.

I'm quite lucky in that my bills are pretty low so I'm not sinking into debt. I do alright! But even though it seems like I might make a decent amount per picture, but I definitely work a lot of hours on any given work day and make below minimum wage. Part of that is my fault for being a slow artist, but hey, watercolours are hard. x3 So yeah, every little bit on the side definitely goes a long way toward helping out!

It definitely shows!

You $ellout.

I know! I can no longer contain my shame. D:

But does Patreon take exposure bucks?

Thought it was something to do with ru dragon XP

I'd have to be a pretty big ass to go around calling other people a sellout that publicly. x3

Naw :P who doesn't like a friendly jab here and there

Hey! If you start getting enough money from patreon to cut back on other job hours that means more time for and posibly more of ych es for us so im all for it xD

If I get enough people I could potentially start doing YCH dealies specifically for patrons... That's an interesting idea! A bonus for supporting that I don't think would upset everyone else too much. I like it!

I wish I had more money I could use freely instead of bills and stuff. I'd totally support you on there! I'm looking for a new job so maybe if I get one with better pay I could support you. I'm still really wanting to commission you some day as well. :)

No worries, bills and real life stuff must always come first! I appreciate the thought though, and who knows, maybe I'll see you on there some day. :P Either way I hope we get to work together at some point! I've got that crazy long waiting list to get through but some day I'll be done with it and can start being a bit more free with who I work for!

Well, now I can call myself your patron. ~_^

Aw damn dude, thank you! :D

Mwahaha. Hey, do you use telegram?

I'm afraid not. I've been pretty bad about the whole social side of this art thing for a while. I'm slowly working on changing that, but as an introverted git that's tricky, heh.

Well, if you ever wanna talk or be social, then no pressures and I always enjoy it.

Patreon's math is bad. It says you have four pledging, one to each (50, 10, 5, 1) for a total of $59

They attempt to give a realistic idea of what the artist is actually getting after fees and stuff. Their math is actually quite a bit more complicated, but I think it's probably not half bad. :P

That makes sense then. I retract my statement.

I've seen some artists come up with creative rewards and such for patrons/subscribers. I say if you've got something in mind, go for it!

Good for you, Ru. You deserve to get paid, and I'm glad you're doing this.

Aw, thanks so much for the kind words! :3

"it's basically paying artists to practice"

Yeah, so is commissioning them? Why does that change anything? xD

I can't speak for other artists, but for me doing commissions isn't really practice. It's more like taking the final test. You don't learn much, you're instead using what you've learned to do the thing, y'know? I can't really take any big risks or do much experimentation to gain new skills on a commission, because if I fuck up then I've lost a day of work, heh.

Would you be up for streaming when you practice? Would like to see what you're learning!

seconded

Donating to artists to encourage/enable the creation of art is exactly what being a "patron of the arts" has always been. The concept and practice have existed far longer than any of us have been alive. It's funny to see people expecting something different from a site named Patreon.

Edit: Haha, a guy below me has already linked the Wikipedia article for patronage. I should've read on before posting.

Oh, good. When you said 'sellout' I was afraid you were going to start putting corporate brands on everything... :P

*Adds you to his growing list of awesome artists doing awesome things*
One dolla pledged~

You KNOW I have to.

Ru you sell out, you monster, you little bdsm fiend. I never want to talk to you again D:<










Are they gone? Good. RUUUUUUUUUU you make me tempted to tip you sooo much. With how much great art and... well attention you give me ;-; I know why artists need a steady, reliable income... Just don't hate me if I can't give something... It makes me sad </3 Ru!!! Know that I love yoooouuu ;~;

I think that you're doing it the right way. You're not saying that no one can see your art or whatever unless they're a patreon subscriber and you're not hiding all commissions behind that wall as well because both of those are just shitty things to do, in my opinion.

You shouldn't be ashamed or anything like that, it doesn't mean you're a sellout either! Your work is fantastic and well, artists have it rough when it xomes to make it a living. The best people can do is support you, especually if they claim to have respect for what you do and such!

So a patreon doesn't mean you're a sellout, it's just part of an artist's modern palette of things to reach out to their audience and to help with making a living out of what you do! <3

Just keep up the great work. <3

I follow the same philosophy with regard to Patreon content. No need to make the vast majority of content "Patreon only", they just get to see it in advance, and get shiny PDF copies of my stories that can be read offline/on devices of the reader's choice. :3 Of course, I don't have a problem with people who DO want to paywall their content, as it's their business and their choice, just as it's people's choice whether to support or not (viewing art is a luxury after all, not something anyone 'needs'). But yeah, awesome to see you doing it this way!

"it's basically paying artists to practice"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patronage

thank you, this way i don't have to explain it...
the idea is not a new one and the people complaining are basically ignorance at it's finest...

I think that the attitudes on both sides of the Patreon fence are typically a bit off target. On one hand, there are those who at the core of their argument feel that artists have a responsibility to create as a volunteer public service. On the other hand, Patreon is commonly being used for sale of what amounts to incrementally distributed folios. Maybe that's a symptom of a society which has lost its value for creativity.

don't sure about that. lately saw a documentation about a german artist, who is paid 3500€ and upward for a single line on a canvas, put there randomly, while runing along a long line of canvases. so he made like 35000€ in under a minute... it's just about what's "in". there was also a nice simpsons issue on that once. i think it's more about the fixation our culture has on value at all. everything has to be fixed with a certain price-tag in money.

Don't even get me started on the pseudo-artistic squirmings of the false intelligentsia...

*but they're

I was just trying to think of the word linked to such practices...Makes you wonder how many names were on the metaphorical drawing board came before Patreon came about.

GetPaidToImproveYourTalentAndShareItWithTheWorld.com just doesn't roll off the tongue nicely.

Depends on the language you use perhaps, I know some other languages could possibly work that down to a far more manageable mouth-full.

So at what amount of money will it take for Ru to sell out and paint more CGF? Hmm 100,200,300?

Honest answer- for 10 bucks I let people toss me ideas about what to draw, and let everyone vote on it. GCF is a popular guy, it seems like folks want him, so I won't be surprised if that happens fairly soon. x3

Draw as in sketch or draw as in to a full color piece?

Once a month, I'm going to do a fully coloured picture based on what my patreons vote for. People who toss 10 bucks a month my way can also put forth ideas that I'll consider putting into the list of stuff to vote on. While I'm not making any guarantees that I'll take every suggestion in case somebody suggests something I really don't want to draw, I plan to add every suggestion I'm comfortable with drawing. And since GCF is my character I'd of course be happy to add him to the list, and since he's a popular one I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got voted for!

That said, I'm not tryin' to weasel money outta you- I also plan to toss in my own ideas to be voted on, and he's a good one to add to the list anyway, so I suspect he'll show up sooner or later regardless. :P

now you have me interested: what would be something you would never want to draw? and is there something you wouldn't draw, no matter how much someone would be willing to pay?
g to pay?

Basically, if it's on my "no fly list" I'm probably not going to take it as a suggestion. That can be found here:

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/148128/

The only one I'm maybe rethinking is maybe commercial characters. I've always felt a touch odd about drawing them, but I've certainly enjoyed my fair share of seeing art done of them... so I dunno. I'm thinking on that one.

hmm, nothing really surprising in there... thanks for the quick answer though!

No no you misunderstanding what I said. Its how much money does it take to make you sell out and draw art outside of commissions.

Hrm, no idea. That's not something I do super often. Probably a fair amount. x3

I guess my only question on all of this is..what happened to green chastity fox?

Nothing! He's still just fine and locked up as tight as ever. His keyholding wolf companion takes good care of him. Just haven't drawn 'em for a while, that's all! :P

Hell, some artists also do videos and tutorials specifically for pateron, or prints or post cards for certain levels. I know of one who engages their patrons of a certain level with 'lessons' even. Well, technically, she does all of the above. There's many ways to make it work, from just plain support to various rewards. I really wish people would stop complaining about pateron, though. Patrons is how many artists have been able to work in the past.

It's totally okay to get money for one's work ;)

You sold out! UNSUBSCRIBE!

If people get all uppity over you having a bit of financial aid, they can sit on a cactus and spin. Patronage was how many artists stayed afloat when they were not commissioned for artwork. The same principle is in affect here with Patreon. Sure, many artists have jobs aside from painting, but (for physical artists such as yourself especially) having to buy new paints and paper/canvas etc. can get expensive after a while.

I realize you're talking tongue in cheek self-deprecation humor on calling sellout, but I've been thinking on the patronage model for a while and kind of hit the philosophy behind it.

"people saying that "it's basically paying artists to practice"." As you said, that is what the model was created for. Original patronage was someone loving an artists work enough to throw money at them to keep doing what they do. People at the time viewed them as master artists as a wealthy and elite was willing to keep paying them. But, how many paintings do you see at museums, absolutely popular artists historically, who died pennyless?

Along comes this new era. Kickstarter changed everything where it wasn't one or a handful of investors dumping thousands at once to buy something, but thousands of people dropping a dollar on things they believed in. This dynamic shift suddenly gave a larger voice to the general population. In the same territory, Patreon came and now larger masses of people can keep the artists they appreciate working on art, as frankly if the money doesn't go to them, the likelihood of said artist having to get a job and art decreasing is a possibility.

Which leads to the lashback. I applaud your choosing not to be behind a paywall, as because right now I can't afford to aim a new direction to throw money. But I view the paywall as something the artist can choose to try to make extra money, as a game has a cost as does a movie. I fear for me this means most of those artists I stop following, not out of anger but because I can't afford to do so (However, in defense of the paywall, something like it I pay a monthly fee for a makerspace. My fee is to get me in, but I can't go every month, but I call it my patronage because I want to keep the lights on in such a place that's rare.)

But to those that say any movement on patronage is selling out, that artists commission costs are too high, that artists are getting rich off of this and I just want to angrily scream "REALLY!?!" I mean, I'm not going to run off the basic arguments of how much money one makes because frankly, I don't care. My argument is if someone can make enough money on their art to afford nice things, that makes me hop up and down giddily clapping my hands.

... And I just wall-o-texted waxing philosophic to say, as someone who watches your art constantly and is excited when you post new art, Yay for anything that keeps bringing art.

I hope it works for you. If I have a bit of cash free up, I will support you as well, since I like your work and style. Good luck!

The way you have your Patreon tiered is super friendly.
It's basically not a lot more than a `Hey, if you want to see my WIP and scraps, toss me some funds for access, otherwise wait for the finished pieces` and `I'll have a reserved commission slot for anybody who's extra serious about supporting me`.

There's nothing for anybody sane to complain about because you yourself selected patron rewards which are reasonable and non-withholding to your viewers.

If I had more time to reliably do artwork, I might do the same thing. You've got an excellent attitude for your Patreon model, so more power to you!

It's about time though! <3
Wishing you all the luck!
Once I have stability in my life, you'd be one of the few I'd be subscribing to. :'D

Secondly, I've often heard complaints about Patreon, people saying that "it's basically paying artists to practice".
WTF??? That's the friggin' point!!!

it's more a way to get regular income for an artist. You just CANNOT be sure month to month what a commission list will be. This way, you have a base to work from.

I just don't trust patreon the site with my info yet

I'm in but you gotta promise me you'll keep doing frustrated chastity pics

My only issue with Patreon is that I've seen some artists basically stop doing public commissions and only offer them to people who already give them money on Patreon. So long as you don't start doing stuff like that, I don't have much to say really x3

Patronage of the arts has been around since before anyone on FA even was born, so I don;t personally have a problem with it.

Too bads I missed when this opened...I'd have been all over a sketch spot on it haha