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Shame, Etc.
9 years ago
General
You may have read this journal already. If so, please skip to the addendum at the end.
I've been seeing this sentiment aroundabouts the web and it's pissing me off. Furries going around coming down on porn and people who like or draw porn because "It gives us a bad name" and "it makes us all look like perverts", etc.. Look, if you don't like porn, that's your prerogative, and I don't judge you for it. It just doesn't work for some people, some people find it gross, some people find it offensive. I seriously don't care how you feel about porn. But I cannot abide this habit so many furs are in of treating people who like bizarre pornography like they're less than civilized or bringing the rest of us down somehow.
I try to be a positive person, but sexual oppression—if you hadn't noticed—is one of the things that infuriates me most about human society today. Not just American society, mind you—I mean everyone, because it comes from all sides of the field. There is absolutely zero reason anymore for us to engage in this petty, ignorant bullshit, and yet I hear furries bitching and moaning about pornography over and over and over again. Even people who enjoy porn crack wise about the negative stigma. This shit makes we stupid angry. It makes me so angry I misspell things and can't be arsed to fix them and would rather just point at my own mistakes in frustration with myself.
One of the reasons the furry community has always appealed to me, even when it was going through growth spurts where it was filled with huge assholes and drama like 24/7, is that it at least purported to be tolerant of, and even accepting of, sex and sexuality. This was a place where you could generally be gay, lesbian, trans, bi, pansexual, asexual, or basically whatever you wanted and that's cool. It's one of our strongest features, and yet on the subject of pornography, "Let's spend an hour pissing about how much porn there is here!" Or sometimes "Let's talk about how creepy furry porn is!"
Look, I think we should be considerate with adult images that contain subject matter that could be harmful to certain people—in fact, my terms of service specifically address that issue. And I believe in supporting and encouraging all artistic endeavors, sexual or not—and some of the best art here on FA is non-sexual and it absolutely does not get enough attention. But what I can not stand in the least is people spreading shame about pornography, as though enjoying sex and sexuality is something that we need to hide and be ashamed of. I've heard propositions, both casually and seriously, that porn should be buried on FA, that it should be something you have to deliberately search for regardless of your SFW settings, and similar ideas.
Fuck. That.
If our little subculture likes it some sex, that's something we should be fucking proud of. Yes, a huge number of our artists are sex workers, and that's not something shameful. That is something that we can hold up as evidence of having risen above all of the oppressive bullshit that our various societies have dumped on us. We've created a community where we (ostensibly) don't have to hide who we are and what we enjoy, and where we can buy or draw a hot cheetah getting railed by just the biggest fucking horse cock you've ever seen (maybe two or three or twelve, fuck it) without having to worry about what that says about our character. Yes, some of the stuff you can find here on FA is undoubtedly unorthodox, and I admit that there is material that I am not comfortable drawing—but if you're honest-to-god not hurting anyone with your kinks and fetishes, nobody should give a shit what you like. And that extends to the whole damn community: if we, as a group, love us some porn, that doesn't make us a bunch of perverts. It makes us a bunch of people who like porn.
The idea that one's sexual interests and preferences are in any way indicative of the quality of their person is backwards and harmful to our community, and it needs to stop. Nobody should be made to feel like they're "selling out" or "abandoning their scruples" if they discover that they can make good money (fucking AMAZING money sometimes) drawing pornography. Nobody should have to choose between a "good reputation" and eating.
So: if you can't handle the fact that the furry community throws its doors open for sex workers, if you can't handle the fact that this subculture has become a place to express non-traditional adult interests and commune with others who share that interest, if you can't handle the simple fact that a lot of people here enjoy something that you don't, and you feel the need to express your contempt and discomfort by shaming the people around you, get the fuck out. You are toxic and we don't need you. Go find some wholesome group to be a part of. I hear the 4H club is always looking for members.
Please, spread the word to stop porn shame. Let people know—preferably more politely than I have here, please—that their words do us harm. Let them know it has to stop.
ADDENDUM: ON "SJWs"
Several folks responded to the original Shame journal by blaming the issue on SJWs and "Tumblrites". Before you respond to this journal with a similar response, please read the following:
First of all, even if I didn't find the term SJW offensive, which I do (more on this in a bit), I don't think this is an SJW issue, because SJWs (gods I hate this term) are, in their way, trying to speak out on some social issue that they think is important, such as racial inequality, gender inequality, rape culture, etc. etc. Whether you think SJWs are full of shit or not, porn shaming is the exact opposite of what SJWs are ostensibly trying to do, which is right social wrongs. Any form of sexually-based oppression is exactly the opposite of their goal, because sexual oppression is a social issue. This here just isn't in their wheelhouse.
So why do I hate the term SJW? Because it demonizes people who are, however poorly, trying to help. Because it is a slur, and slurs only make discussions stupider, more generalized, and less informed.
A forward: I believe that inequality and other social issues are problems at the root of society, not on the surface; surface solutions like legislation will not solve the underlying causes of social issues that plague humanity. The only thing that will help is changing minds, and that means open and constant dialogue about the issues. It means reaching out and connecting people, creating empathy and understanding, and growing a culture of compassion.
Enter the so-called "SJW". These are people who, according to Urban Dictionary, the authority on all things slang, "repeatedly and vehemently engage in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation." Notice that this definition clarifies that these people are speaking out not to help, but to further their own self-interest. If this were exactly how this term were applied, I'd give it a grudging pass. I don't give it a pass, because, like any slur, it's become a way to dismiss a person's argument without actually seriously engaging it. Here are just a few ways I've noticed.
• People are often slapped with the SJW slur when they don't fall into the category of people they are defending—for example, if a male speaks out on gender inequality, or a cis person speaks out on transgender rights. The label is applied because "They aren't a [group], so they can't understand the issues of [group], so they are unqualified to make arguments for [group]." This is a fallacious logical jump that assumes first that empathy is required to understand a social issue, and second, that human beings are incapable of empathizing with a circumstance they have no personal experience in. To rebut: you don't have to have been a slave to know that being a slave strips people of their inherent humanity and personhood and to argue therefore that slavery is wrong.
— A more cynical variation of this argument is "They aren't a [group], so they have nothing to gain by defending [group], therefore their motives are not to help [group]." This argument assumes wrongly that rectifying social justice issues that relate specifically to one group or class will not feed back improvements into society as a whole.
• People can be slapped with the SJW slur for being uneducated, regardless of sincerity. This is especially true on Tumblr, which is dominated by youth who may not have had the opportunity to be fully educated or may lack the maturity to fully understand an issue. This use of the slur I find particularly heinous because if you know enough about an issue to know that a person is lacking a full measure of understanding regarding said issue, by choosing simply to use pejorative terms to insult the person, you are missing an opportunity to educate someone who sincerely cares about the issues at hand and better equip them to contribute to the discussion—and on top of that, you are lowering the discourse from something that could be intellectual to something vulgar and destructive.
• The most common way I see SJW used is simply to dismiss an issue, toss up deuces and walk away from the conversation. This use basically slaps the SJW slur on anyone who speaks out on any social issue anywhere anyhow, and a great example of this use was during "Gamergate", when it got stamped on anyone who tried to argue for minority rights and representation in games, gaming culture, and game development. This is the most cynical use of the term and therefore the most depressing, because it means that the user thinks the issues are simply not important and don't need discussion, vehement or otherwise, and anyone who speaks out on these issues is simply making talking points to look good. Basically, this is patently and demonstrably untrue. People care about social issues because people care about people. Not everyone is a self-absorbed egomaniac.
I'm not coming down on you folks who used the term; it's possible that you've never thought of it as a slur or realized that by using it you're contributing to a destructive discourse. Just know that using any slur reduces your credibility in any argument, because slurs are unintelligent oversimplifications and only serve to demonize your opponent for lack of a proper, intellectual argument, and I know my fans are better than that. If you think that the people who are porn-shaming are only doing so to look better, or that their arguments are half-cocked, just say so. Make a reasoned, impassioned argument. Raise the bar.
~Robin
I've been seeing this sentiment aroundabouts the web and it's pissing me off. Furries going around coming down on porn and people who like or draw porn because "It gives us a bad name" and "it makes us all look like perverts", etc.. Look, if you don't like porn, that's your prerogative, and I don't judge you for it. It just doesn't work for some people, some people find it gross, some people find it offensive. I seriously don't care how you feel about porn. But I cannot abide this habit so many furs are in of treating people who like bizarre pornography like they're less than civilized or bringing the rest of us down somehow.
I try to be a positive person, but sexual oppression—if you hadn't noticed—is one of the things that infuriates me most about human society today. Not just American society, mind you—I mean everyone, because it comes from all sides of the field. There is absolutely zero reason anymore for us to engage in this petty, ignorant bullshit, and yet I hear furries bitching and moaning about pornography over and over and over again. Even people who enjoy porn crack wise about the negative stigma. This shit makes we stupid angry. It makes me so angry I misspell things and can't be arsed to fix them and would rather just point at my own mistakes in frustration with myself.
One of the reasons the furry community has always appealed to me, even when it was going through growth spurts where it was filled with huge assholes and drama like 24/7, is that it at least purported to be tolerant of, and even accepting of, sex and sexuality. This was a place where you could generally be gay, lesbian, trans, bi, pansexual, asexual, or basically whatever you wanted and that's cool. It's one of our strongest features, and yet on the subject of pornography, "Let's spend an hour pissing about how much porn there is here!" Or sometimes "Let's talk about how creepy furry porn is!"
Look, I think we should be considerate with adult images that contain subject matter that could be harmful to certain people—in fact, my terms of service specifically address that issue. And I believe in supporting and encouraging all artistic endeavors, sexual or not—and some of the best art here on FA is non-sexual and it absolutely does not get enough attention. But what I can not stand in the least is people spreading shame about pornography, as though enjoying sex and sexuality is something that we need to hide and be ashamed of. I've heard propositions, both casually and seriously, that porn should be buried on FA, that it should be something you have to deliberately search for regardless of your SFW settings, and similar ideas.
Fuck. That.
If our little subculture likes it some sex, that's something we should be fucking proud of. Yes, a huge number of our artists are sex workers, and that's not something shameful. That is something that we can hold up as evidence of having risen above all of the oppressive bullshit that our various societies have dumped on us. We've created a community where we (ostensibly) don't have to hide who we are and what we enjoy, and where we can buy or draw a hot cheetah getting railed by just the biggest fucking horse cock you've ever seen (maybe two or three or twelve, fuck it) without having to worry about what that says about our character. Yes, some of the stuff you can find here on FA is undoubtedly unorthodox, and I admit that there is material that I am not comfortable drawing—but if you're honest-to-god not hurting anyone with your kinks and fetishes, nobody should give a shit what you like. And that extends to the whole damn community: if we, as a group, love us some porn, that doesn't make us a bunch of perverts. It makes us a bunch of people who like porn.
The idea that one's sexual interests and preferences are in any way indicative of the quality of their person is backwards and harmful to our community, and it needs to stop. Nobody should be made to feel like they're "selling out" or "abandoning their scruples" if they discover that they can make good money (fucking AMAZING money sometimes) drawing pornography. Nobody should have to choose between a "good reputation" and eating.
So: if you can't handle the fact that the furry community throws its doors open for sex workers, if you can't handle the fact that this subculture has become a place to express non-traditional adult interests and commune with others who share that interest, if you can't handle the simple fact that a lot of people here enjoy something that you don't, and you feel the need to express your contempt and discomfort by shaming the people around you, get the fuck out. You are toxic and we don't need you. Go find some wholesome group to be a part of. I hear the 4H club is always looking for members.
Please, spread the word to stop porn shame. Let people know—preferably more politely than I have here, please—that their words do us harm. Let them know it has to stop.
ADDENDUM: ON "SJWs"
Several folks responded to the original Shame journal by blaming the issue on SJWs and "Tumblrites". Before you respond to this journal with a similar response, please read the following:
First of all, even if I didn't find the term SJW offensive, which I do (more on this in a bit), I don't think this is an SJW issue, because SJWs (gods I hate this term) are, in their way, trying to speak out on some social issue that they think is important, such as racial inequality, gender inequality, rape culture, etc. etc. Whether you think SJWs are full of shit or not, porn shaming is the exact opposite of what SJWs are ostensibly trying to do, which is right social wrongs. Any form of sexually-based oppression is exactly the opposite of their goal, because sexual oppression is a social issue. This here just isn't in their wheelhouse.
So why do I hate the term SJW? Because it demonizes people who are, however poorly, trying to help. Because it is a slur, and slurs only make discussions stupider, more generalized, and less informed.
A forward: I believe that inequality and other social issues are problems at the root of society, not on the surface; surface solutions like legislation will not solve the underlying causes of social issues that plague humanity. The only thing that will help is changing minds, and that means open and constant dialogue about the issues. It means reaching out and connecting people, creating empathy and understanding, and growing a culture of compassion.
Enter the so-called "SJW". These are people who, according to Urban Dictionary, the authority on all things slang, "repeatedly and vehemently engage in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation." Notice that this definition clarifies that these people are speaking out not to help, but to further their own self-interest. If this were exactly how this term were applied, I'd give it a grudging pass. I don't give it a pass, because, like any slur, it's become a way to dismiss a person's argument without actually seriously engaging it. Here are just a few ways I've noticed.
• People are often slapped with the SJW slur when they don't fall into the category of people they are defending—for example, if a male speaks out on gender inequality, or a cis person speaks out on transgender rights. The label is applied because "They aren't a [group], so they can't understand the issues of [group], so they are unqualified to make arguments for [group]." This is a fallacious logical jump that assumes first that empathy is required to understand a social issue, and second, that human beings are incapable of empathizing with a circumstance they have no personal experience in. To rebut: you don't have to have been a slave to know that being a slave strips people of their inherent humanity and personhood and to argue therefore that slavery is wrong.
— A more cynical variation of this argument is "They aren't a [group], so they have nothing to gain by defending [group], therefore their motives are not to help [group]." This argument assumes wrongly that rectifying social justice issues that relate specifically to one group or class will not feed back improvements into society as a whole.
• People can be slapped with the SJW slur for being uneducated, regardless of sincerity. This is especially true on Tumblr, which is dominated by youth who may not have had the opportunity to be fully educated or may lack the maturity to fully understand an issue. This use of the slur I find particularly heinous because if you know enough about an issue to know that a person is lacking a full measure of understanding regarding said issue, by choosing simply to use pejorative terms to insult the person, you are missing an opportunity to educate someone who sincerely cares about the issues at hand and better equip them to contribute to the discussion—and on top of that, you are lowering the discourse from something that could be intellectual to something vulgar and destructive.
• The most common way I see SJW used is simply to dismiss an issue, toss up deuces and walk away from the conversation. This use basically slaps the SJW slur on anyone who speaks out on any social issue anywhere anyhow, and a great example of this use was during "Gamergate", when it got stamped on anyone who tried to argue for minority rights and representation in games, gaming culture, and game development. This is the most cynical use of the term and therefore the most depressing, because it means that the user thinks the issues are simply not important and don't need discussion, vehement or otherwise, and anyone who speaks out on these issues is simply making talking points to look good. Basically, this is patently and demonstrably untrue. People care about social issues because people care about people. Not everyone is a self-absorbed egomaniac.
I'm not coming down on you folks who used the term; it's possible that you've never thought of it as a slur or realized that by using it you're contributing to a destructive discourse. Just know that using any slur reduces your credibility in any argument, because slurs are unintelligent oversimplifications and only serve to demonize your opponent for lack of a proper, intellectual argument, and I know my fans are better than that. If you think that the people who are porn-shaming are only doing so to look better, or that their arguments are half-cocked, just say so. Make a reasoned, impassioned argument. Raise the bar.
~Robin
Don't oppress sex guys and girls! Religion has already been doing that for thousands of years. Don't need to add to that shit storm. Let's finally get to a point where there is actual freedom to these things. Just stay within the law.
I would say that is what you should have said, because the association you suggest here isn't necessarily accurate—it may be how you and some others use the term, but it isn't a universal definition/association, and even in the manner you use it here it's still pejorative and generalizing. Notice how my provided definition—from UD—and yours, and Elsa-chan's there are all different; if varying people give it varying definitions (and clearly we do), and those definitions have no contextual support, it has no value as a descriptive term.
I appreciate that you were "on my side" as it were in the original journal, and like I said, I wasn't coming down on anybody; I just wanted to explain why using labels isn't conducive to good discourse.