that's pretty smart in this day and age haha.

In the USA I'm a "on the fence" Republican

Everywhere outside the USA I'm a royalist

Liberal. Libertarian is something different.

Main difference. Liberals believe in government ordained belief structure, Libertarians believe in free will with limited government.
??

I ment more along the lines of its usually liberal vs conservative. I pretty much lean left far enough that #blacklivesmatter and equal rights for everyone.

ohhhh boy. I agree to disagree with you.

Thats fair, no harm no foul friendo

How dare u. Caring about people and whatnot :P

No way! Im the worst of the worst!

Honestly I consider myself liberal. Pretty left-leaning but in a "I want all humans to have good lives and respect" sort of way.

Also like. I firmly belive someone's rights end where they start effecting someone else's negatively.

i'm probably pretty liberal myself, just believing that people should do and be what makes them happiest as long as it's not infringing on other people's rights and they're safe and consensual, y'know? and i supported bernie sanders quite a lot, so that'd probably make me left.

No clue, I dislike politics and just go my own way

Left leaning independent I guess?
Both sides have major issues I can't ignore (but so do third parties)
But most liberal ideals and social issues are things I agree with just think there's too much corruption within the parties :(

I've lived my whole life not too far from San Francisco CA, you can probably guess what I am.

Libertarian. Left.

Yup.

Up.

democratic libritarian.

and shitty speller.

That's a good question. I'm definitely liberal though I don't believe in most of the BLM/SJW BS.

"let people do what they want if it doesn't affect other people negatively"
Whatever the shit that's called

I think that's called being a respectable human being haha.

I don't really do politics... Honestly, I don't know what being right or left even means... (In terms of ideals/parties... I get that it's terminology regarding which side of the political spectrum you're on)

Probably moderate, leaning libertarian

I stay very far away from politics, so much so that I don't know what beliefs are left and what beliefs are right. In terms of wings I just say I'm bird ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm neutral, I'm sure there's views on both side I agree with as I'm been called both

i dont go into politics cause it starts a shit fest

Mostly liberal, I suppose.

Whatever side gets people salty X3 jk

liberal...socialist?
i believe that it's the government's responsibility to take care of things like health care and environmental protections. and by proxy, citizens of course.
i am impressed by a lot of the socialist-like setups of other countries like the health care, care for those who can't work, schooling aid, ect. because honestly, i wouldn't mind paying what americans consider to be 'high' taxes as long as the government produces significant benefits from those taxes. i'm also very interested in saving the environment and species that are dying out because of human intervention, personally i feel like that's everyone's responsibility, and the world is less rich without it's animals or environments even if everyone doesn't see every single one every day.

I agree in theory it sounds pretty good, But I've heard it's a mess in practice.

yea, but that seems to be the running theme with all politics. things can be amazing on paper, but when human ambition and greed get involved it all falls flat. but one can hope ^^

you have a point haha.

I believe in a government that should be running about the people the people's decision is the most important thing out of anything sometimes behind closed doors people make decisions on which have a strong and big impact in our society and in our country. But the only that can happen is when the people are well-informed to be trusted with the government.

It depends on what you're discussing, I can agree with some things the right says and same goes for the left. I tend to lean more towards the right and occasionally the far right, but I think it's best to avoid the far right and far left. They tend to become echo chambers and disrupt normal society. It's best to keep an open mind and remember there's more than one side to every argument.

Very well put I agree.

Im a libertarian :3

I keep getting called a liberal by butthurt nazis that see my page or notice the BLM on my twitter bio, but I'm really not. I guess I do lean left, but I'd figure I'm more libertarian I guess?

I just give a shit about people and the proper treatment of everyone, not just some. And I ain't about that racism and bigotry bullshit. So whatever you want to call a decent human being who doesn't shit on the lives of someone else just to get mine then there ya go.

After doing a bit more looking into it, I am DEF not a libertarian. Very very little of my views match with that. I'd more fly under liberal or left.

Well people don't like BLM movement because of the crazies. You know the people who speak the loudest. Like that guy who was in the BLM movement and assassinated a three cops a few days ago. That and the Movement was founded on a racist person on america most wanted list called "the black panther" who murdered cops. If you are interested I could inform you about how the media is lying to you about this (most often they try to make up a "he was unarmed scenario" and cut film to make the victim look innocent) or the unfortunate part about how BLM isn't addressing the ridiculously high crime rate in its own community.

Even if you don't it's cool. If your not going out of your way to shame others others for their beliefs (Thus why I just stated facts above and didn't shame you.) than there is no problem there.That would be an ad hominem attack and changing people's hearts starts with understanding and not insults. Though I do still believe people still get away with racism RARELY on a systematic level which and more often socially.

I am of the type that doesn't condemn the entirety of a movement or a group for the actions of the misguided and violent. That's the same lesson minorities have been wanting folks to realize for YEARS and people still don't get it.

On top of the fact that technically BLM isn't a group. It's a movement. Therefore there aren't any leaders, no members. Which means it's VERY possible to be a part of the movement and what it stands for without being for the people who are also participating. It'd be one thing if he was the actual leader of the group, but all he did was start a notion, and that notion's basic principles didn't suddenly change to "let's kill cops" because the guy who started saying it and started the movement might have done so previously. There's nothing in the basic notion of BLM that has anything to do with invalidating the lives of other people. People who QUOTE being in said movement have done so, but BLM as it is itself isn't the embodiement of cop killing and fuck everyone but black people. Which is why I cannot equate the poor misguided actions of the few and use it to mean the entirety of the movment, because at it's core, that's not what it's about.

As for the high crime rate, I'm pretty sure that's been addressed by MANY folks in said movement, but as it's a movement, not a group, you'd have to actively be participating or be watching those that are in said movement to see the discussion. I'd have to find it, but I know I've seen the rate of black crimes vs. communities where they live vs. poverty rates MANY times on twitter discussions when it's brought up. But even so, that still doesn't erase the fact that black people as a minority are an opposed group, which is what BLM stands to try and correct.

We'd have to disagree on the systematic level. There are more than enough instances of systematic racism in history for me to disagree there. It's a hell of a lot easier to do the shit on the down low and have people question you for pointing it out now a days. Lot of loopholes and ways to just hide it within something else.

But no I don't go out of my way to shame others for their beliefs unless they're outright in public talkmbout "I'm scared of black people shopping non threateningly in my walmart store so much that I have to mention I carry my gun on me"

Usually it's some nazi, who gets butthurt about me saying "hey maybe not be racist/transphobic" then they go to my twitter bio to find something to come at me with and mention I'm in support of BLM as if that's going to discredit me saying "maybe not call that dude a N****"

Ive never seen them addressing high crime rate, they just push it on others but like I said the people who speak the loudest become the face of the movement and you are correct there are no appointed leaders but that's not the point. There are bad people that many in the movement look up to. People considered to be leaders. Back to crime rate based on povertyy there are many more people of other skin colors that live in poverty that do not cause as much crime.

As for your idea of "Don't judge a movement by it's people". The people make the movement and the people i've seen are terrible. People are using it as an excuse to be racist mainly to white people and that's disgusting. (I'm not going to get into any arguments about you can't be racist to white people because that's bullshit)

Racism cannot be systematic as there are laws to stop it. People who can slip around that are people who have the privileged of wealth. To say that racism is systematic is to say that "Black people can't do this because they are black" No these days everyone is judged equally UNLESS They have money and a good lawyer. As for fixing the justice system which can be used to screw over anyone of any color. That is another matter entirely.

I didn't intend for this to cause a discourse but I've seen too many people start out in the movement with good intentions but slowly turn into race baiting race hating morons. And it's just like morgan freeman said. "If we want to stop making race a problem we need to stop talking about it." This huge influx of racial tension was CAUSED by the movement.

I suppose my main problem is. I've seen NOTHING literally NOTHING good come out of the movement. It's separating people, at the BLM protests they stop white students from going to class, Create further segregation, Kill cops. It's not spreading understanding and kindness it's spreading hate and tribalism.

Again, yes, the people make the movement, but just as you've seen the bad, I've seen the good. Should I now discredit them and equate them to the bad folks in the movement because of the wrong doing of others? This is why I have issue with people who find fault in BLM.

And with that being said, even if the people who started the movement (as there aren't any leaders, there may be people who started it but that's where their involvement ends in terms with being a MEMBER) initially did some wrong doing, it doesn't negate the fact that I've seen FAR TOO MUCH good come of the movement. The rallies where I live involve people of MANY races and creeds and not a one person is singled out and no white people are told to piss off or treated like they aren't included. As I said, at it's core, it just means the involvement of EVERY RACE in terms of treating people correctly.

Equality in itself is ONLY on paper. Just because there are laws to circumvent things now, doesn't mean that is the end of all systematic racism and oppression. In fact, there's a GREAT read about a community here in Cincinnati that is DYING due to systematic oppression and the faults that were in places WELL AFTER there were laws that said you can't discriminate. Racism is systematic, it didn't just stop because some laws were put into place. Black people are NOT all treated equally, as a black person living in America I can tell you from PERSONAL experience that in a lot of cases we are not, and yes, there are laws against that, but that doesn't stop it from being an issue.

And I'm going to have to WHOLLY disagree with you. There was racial tension FAR BEFORE the movement was a thing. The movement was caused due to the influx of racial tension. I'm not really sure where you go tthe notion that there wasn't any, but that wasn't the world I lived in and it didn't suddenly become an issue when BLM came to be.

Just like you can cite instances where the movement was bad, I can cite instances where it brought people together. There are videos of the rallies of the movement in Cincinnati, where all kinds of people PEACEFULLY protest or hold meetings. People in this fandom have banded together against facist furries all under the movement itself. I think it's WHOLLY unfair of ANY demographic, group, or organization to take those who have bastardized it and say 'Ya'll all like that' because that is done to me just because of the color of my skin. Some douche dude does a thing and happens to be black and some other douche uses that to mean I'M going to cause them issue. So I can't, even though I know exactly what you're talking about, condemn the entire movement. I've seen more good than bad on my end.

You also confirmed exactly why systematic oppression of minorities still exists. Wealth. Laws are DEFINITELY in place, but have ENOUGH money and ENOUGH standing and you can get around them. I mean hell even how criminals and people of lesser crimes are depicted in the media based on the color of their skin. The fact that a white man can rape a bunch of folks and get only a few months sentence and house arrest and a black man who committed the same exact crime can go to JAIL for years is enough of an indication. Just because there are laws on paper that say 'you can discriminate' doesn't mean that it's done in practice and it doesn't mean that the entirety of the racial tension and bullshit is abolished. Wealth and power very often supercede any laws or consequences. If someone has enough money, they can get away with murder. Even more so if they aren't a POC.

You assume POC can't become rich which is completely false. Many people came from places considered to be "Slums" and are now rich.

I assume then something we can agree on is there are many circumstances in which cause people to be good and bad for the movement. To be honest with you I was initially very hesitant about people saying that they were being judged based on the color of their skin because to me and many other people skin color seem so trivial.

It wasn't until my friend who is black told me about how they were discriminated against in their job based on their skin color which is illigal but somehow her job got away with it.

but you also can't argue that there are really insane racists in the movement. How would the rest of the movement address them? A lot of people say its not their job to address crazies in their movement or religion but if it makes the movements look bad enough they are technically enemies of the cause.

And would you be able to provide me with some links to positive things the BLM movement has accomplished. I'm sure that would help me understand where your coming from. I don't think I really need to provide links to what I mean by crazy people in the movement but if you like I don't mind.

Systematic oppression and racism has nothing to do with one's wealth. And even though a POC can become wealthy, that person is STILL seen as less than by colleagues and peers. Just because a black person can get rich doesn't mean they aren't met with oppression and doesn't mean that the systematic oppression of his people, typically seen in lesser communities and affected by the poor (he'll be able to circumvent a few of the problems by his wealth, like not having to live in a poor income community for instance where a lot of bullshit is a lot more common). For instance, my father was often snubbed by white collegues, even having one so much as snidely remark to him how "lucky" he was to be making the money he was and being in the position he was. Besides, in the case of systematic oppression, it would have to be done by people of HIGHER power. Not just the wealthy. People in high power pass the laws and judgements and you'd be VERY hard pressed to find POC politians and government officials that haven't met with some wall they had to climb simply because of their skin color.

As pretty as the laws look, the real fact is minorities are and continue to be oppressed. That's a real issue. This issue was caused initially by laws and regulations (moving minorities to 'ghettos', poor income schooling in these neighborhoods leading to crime, etc) in the past that new laws can't possibly erase without a LOT of changes.

And I never ignore nor did I say there weren't any insane racists in the movement. They are exactly who I mean when I say they bastardize and are misguided. They took the core meaning of the movement's words, and added in unneccessary bullshit twisting it to mean they can cause harm. I DON'T condone people being prejudice towards someone simply because they are white. If they are reacting to someone being RACIST then okay, but I don't play that "white people are all bad" nonsense. I'm married to a white man who proudly stands by BLM. I'm not so naive.

And those people are what we call Hoteps (in the case of them also being black). It's addressed, at least through the people I tend to discuss and associate with who are also within said movement. But like I said, it's a movement, it's individuals like myself and my friends. These things you're looking for would be found within THEIR discussions and THEIR forums. Twitter conversations, Facebook status discussions. Other like minded individuals like myself who don't believe the movement means "fuck everyone, shit on whitey". I can find you their discussions if you'd like, send you videos of the cincinnati rallies. Peaceful marches. I don't think it's hard to find at all. I know I've said it quite a few times how frustrating it is that someone sees some douchebag doing a thing and then thinks the entirety of us just join in the bullshit.

For me all it means is the inclusion of black lives, not that they're the ONLY ones that matter. Not that they are better. I still believe that the movement stands for equality and inclusion and only those that are misguided and misinterpreted things are bastardizing this.

Here's Trevor Noah's Debate with Tomi Loren, a good watch I think: http://www.allhiphopmusic.com/trevo.....movement-with/

Peaceful rally in Cincinnati, many of the rallies are peaceful and diverse! https://www.yahoo.com/news/diverse-.....022450193.html

Time has a GREAT article on why the movement isn't racist and why the notion that it is, is a problem: http://time.com/4413786/splc-black-...../?xid=tcoshare

I'd have to search through a shit ton of twitter feed to find my discussions with folks about the movement myself or retweets I've liked from other folks in the movement.

Thanks Ill take a look at the links. I appreciate that you are respectful enough to remain calm in a debate haha. Most people tend to loose their shit and that really doesn't get anyone anywhere. But maybe with your help here I can understand the logical side of the movement more. If it's as basic as protecting everyone's rights no matter their skin color I've always been for that.

Oh no worries, dude! You are someone I have mad respect for and have been watching for YEARS! I'm glad it didn't turn into nasty nonsense too lol. I never mean any ill will with my debates and it's nice to be able to discuss without someone getting upset. Even if I curse a lot lol

I am pure communism. Actualy I have some right wing beliefs, some left wing beliefs, and some moderate ones to. I'm not really where I am, but id say more likely left. I just think that people should take stances on issues they actualy believe in, rather than just playing red team or blue team.

Good point

Because red team blue team is why America ended up with Clinton v Trump. And we know how that ended.

I think teams are good to an extent be we need to be like other countries and have a ton of parties that can compete fairly. Because like you said to assume that only two parties can express all the many issues is a false dichotomy.

Yeah. How free are we really if there are only 2 choices?