100% this

Good to know I'm not the only one sick of these label brainfarts.

Many autistic people thrive on pattern recognition and order. That's why shows like MLP and Pokemon are so popular among ASD folks, because everything matches a template with clear cut labels and ordered structures like unicorn, pegasus, earth pony, or clearly defined types like electric, fire, steel, fairy, etc.

Unfortunately, the real world isn't as clear cut as fiction, so when you try to fit yourself into a label such as "Male" or "Female" you find some things that don't quite fit those traditional gender roles. So in their mind, there HAS to be something that fits better. The puzzle piece doesn't fit perfectly, so it's obviously wrong.

Thus labels like "Genderfluid Demiqueer otherkin" were born, which unfortunately only complicated the problem.

I understand they're trying to figure out who the hell they are (I'm sure most furries can relate to that) but these fucknuggets need to stop being so god damn militant about it.

>Many autistic people thrive on pattern recognition and order. That's why shows like MLP and Pokemon are so popular among ASD folks, because everything matches a template with clear cut labels and ordered structures like unicorn, pegasus, earth pony, or clearly defined types like electric, fire, steel, fairy, etc.

I found this pretty insightful.

Oh yeah, also Minecraft. That's a pattern recognition whore's wet dream.

In those times everybody seems to be autistic, so most likely 4/5 of them is not even standing near to it, they just think they do to make themselves look special. I really doubt that most of those people have autism, they just jumped on the bandwagon because they wanted to BELONG, and most of them got their brains washed in the process because that's how propaganda works. First you just talk like that, then you start thinking like that.

Perhaps my age is showing, but isn't it as easy as 'do you prefer to identify as a guy or girl? Okay, that's what you are. Done'? Like why is it that it's fluid? Male. Female. You can be a feminine male or a masculine female, but it's still the same gender. The preference for their mate shouldn't be effecting the gender of the person itself. Or does someone how a better way of explaining how that's incorrect without going straight to 'feelings'? Cause let's be honest here, science and legalities aren't about feelings. Your anatomy doesn't change physically, so gender should be solid too. Least in my opinion.

Again, if someone can maturely talk about a reason to knock this down, I welcome an alternative perspective that's reasonable. :)

It's not your age, so much as your sense.

What we're dealing with here is essentially an attempt to discredit and undermine physical sex as having any bearing on gender, whatsoever. It started with devaluing the default and normality of not being trans by labeling "normal" as "cis." By using a prefix specifically to just make cis and trans two perfectly equal alternatives, sides of the same coin, they inherently invalidated cis as being normal and trans as being abnormal. When in fact, only about .8% of the population of humans across the world are or identify as any gender outside their born and given one. That'd be about 4 people out of 500 identify as anything but Cis/normal.

Academia has decided that to be trans is not to have a psychological or physiological condition, but that it is a minority that must be protected and civil rights extended to in order to protect them from persecution by the medical establishment. In fact, the schizophrenic partition between physical sex and gender arose specifically because of post-modernist ideas regarding gender being entirely mental and cultural, rather than having any biological basis.

They reasoned that gender was a social construct and only a social construct, and sexual/reproductive organs were just that, reproductive organs, that had no bearing on whether you were male or female.

We now know that gender is more than social constructs and what you feel or prefer. Gender is as inborn to your psyche as your chromosomes and your genitals. Gender is as much a sex characteristic as anything else. It's when hormones are disrupted or something is malfunctioning that dysphoria happens. Dysphoria is in fact an illness of the brain.

However, academia does not want this to be true. It wants a reality in which gender is as protected a civil rights as sexual orientation, and that means one of two things:
1.) Physical and biological basis for determining whether your are male or female, or any other gender needs to go away, be excluded from the conversation of what makes a gender.
They push this by insisting that men can be pregnant and that the language of places like Planned Parenthood must change in order to accept, acknowledge and validate the phenomenon of transgendered or "nongendered" pregnant men. That people must call people by their preferred gender pronouns or, like in New York, face legal action for hate speak. Yes, you can be compelled to call someone their gender pronoun there now, or face legal action. Refusal to do so is now hate speech. "Trans women are women," and thus entitled to all privilege, nuance and validation as women.

2.) Biology does matter, and that means trans people are not male/female, they're trans-male/female. They cannot compel someone to call them by their gender pronouns, they must legally change them, they must go through the medical establishment and even then they will probably get a special designation, but they will not get to depose biology as what determines if one is male or female.

The encouragement by academia to "explore your own identity" and embrace all these different genders is simply to get people into this magic bubble and to bandwagon the trans rights cause. But not the actual trans rights cause, the one that wants to utterly decouple gender from biology whatsoever. Thus, why all these people are fluttering around like special snowflakes, declaring themselves "non-binary". "agender", "lunargender" and "omnigender."

They reasoned that gender was a social construct and only a social construct, and sexual/reproductive organs were just that, reproductive organs, that had no bearing on whether you were male or female.
But that right there, is the part I don't get still. Your gender has always been what your genitalia was when your born. If you get a sex change, then you identify with the other. I understand wholly, as a child of a pre-op transgender parent, that there's a wide gray area in the middle there; but he identifies as female, despite the fact he has a penis but also has breasts. I guess maybe that's why I'm comfortable with trans, but not really on-board with the fluid issue. The way I always saw it, was if you look like a female, you go to the women's room, and people identify you as female. If you look like a man, you go to the mens room, and people identify you as male. It seems so simple up until the last few years when that 68 or so gender thing came out.

The encouragement by academia to "explore your own identity" and embrace all these different genders is simply to get people into this magic bubble and to bandwagon the trans rights cause. But not the actual trans rights cause, the one that wants to utterly decouple gender from biology whatsoever. Thus, why all these people are fluttering around like special snowflakes, declaring themselves "non-binary". "agender", "lunargender" and "omnigender.

I mean it seems to be we're on the same side on this; things have gotten out of hand (at least that's how I'm interpreting your post; could be far off). Personally, I don't see many trans people being stopped from going in bathrooms in the first place, not to mention segregation and discrimination are already illegal, so hating on someone because their trans is always by that issue a crime. So then why the special one-up on that specific topic? But I guess that in itself is the issue you present with that last quote; it's all a facade; some agenda to be pushed without the proper backing of rational thought behind it?

Or am I reading into it incorrectly? It's been awhile sense I've read something by someone that didn't seem biased but was still very well spoken, and without insults to boot. Thanks :)

Your genitalia and chromosomes have always been what helped define you, of course! But what I'm saying is these moonbats are on a crusade to forcibly change that in the name of "trans rights." Right up to and including trying to dissuade new parents from gendering their children (calling them boys or girls, using gender pronouns around them) until they "discover" their gender.

Swedish schools have been doing everything from nongendering the children to having schools that openly encourage gendering everything specifically for the purposes of trying to get boys to do 'very specifically girl things' to identify as girls, and vice versa. What they got was girls playing house using racecars and little boys bending barbie dolls into toy guns. One teacher in America even tried to sexually segregate legos and refuse to let boys play with them, under the idea if girls had more access to legos, they'd develop better math, logic and spatial reasoning. But they never did.

They quite simply and literally view anything outside "gender is 100% a social construct" as transphobia, and all these postmodern genders, they're trying to equate to having as much validity as male and female.

That's it. That's the agenda. These people getting credibility by jumping on the trans rights bandwagon and proclaiming themselves to be Mysterious Gender are trying to claim they're just as valid as a person with incredible gender dysphoria, that you don't need the medical community to diagnose when you have it, and that civic society should recognize and validate all these genders and all these pronouns, and quite literally abandon the idea of male and female as being sexes. It sounds fucking insane, but it's reality.

It's radical college professors and their brainwashed students, now working parents and people that want to be on the right side of history, trying to change this in both law and society.

Thats'.. that's complete insanity. How the hell would a parent get things done at the doctors office? A child might not 'know' it's gender into teenage-hood, and then it could flip-flop like the footware of the same name.

I mean I dig the whole 'let the kids play diversely, break the social norm of girls with dolls and boys with guns' stuff; I do it too. I give my daughter dolls and toy throwing stars, mermaids and lightsabers, legos and doll houses. It works when it's casual. But FORCING segregation like that only breeds contempt, least in my views. The girls that will want to play with dolls will resent boys that play with it cause they're hogging all the doll action. How about they instead, dump them in a pit, and let the kids go in to get what they want 1 boy then 1 girl at a time. Then they get a mix of what's there, and nobody is being forced to play by the imaginary rules that some holier-then-though SJW forces on them? Sorry if that sounds like it's anger towards you, it's not, it's towards the way things currently are. Just lunacy at it's worst.

I remember back in the day, you were either male or female, and your sexual orientation and mental choices didn't effect it. You were a dude that likes girl, boys, or both, or you were a girl that liked girls, boys, or both, and that it was totally cool. Not sure if I'll ever completely grasp the fluid thing. Either be a guy or be a girl. I don't care what's between your thighs unless I'm the one that's supposed to put my face there. And even then I don't care as long as it's cleaned. Eventually we'll all have to just walk around in opaque blue smocks that go from head to toe with a serial number on the front that people can scan to find out what they identify with. u_u

Weelllll... (and no, I know your vitriol is directed towards this absurd situation)

They aren't doing it for the sake of the children, they're doing it to change society "for the better." It's no secret that these types have a whole host of other, tangentially related mental issues. Mostly an arrested development, emotional issues (both diagnosed and not) and narcissism. These Bandwagoneers, these people that are not trans but like to wear it like a culture, these "gender fluids", often get called Trans Trenders. Because they're like the totally straight but politically lesbian feminists of the 1960s to today, and the people that experimented with sexual orientation labels for street cred among other idiots in the late 90s/early 00.

When it was done by the lady teacher with the legos, it was done in order to 'equal the playing field.' These postmodern "durhur everything is a SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, biology doesn't matter when weighed against the human spirit!" fools can legitimate assume the only reason men are taller than women is because society and culture conditions them to feed boys more, resulting in taller and more robust men and weaker deprived oppressed women. That boys are cultured to be aggressive and selfish, and that deprives women of opportunities.. like playing with legos. It's tied in with feminism, too.

It's called "Intersectional feminism."

But it gets worse. So much worse.

All this hinges on theories that have their roots in the Frankfurst School of Marxism. If you're unfamiliar, yes, that's attached to all the dogma and stupidity of communism. Frankfurt's school decided they'd go in a different direction than trying to revolutionize the world through violence or force or economic tyranny; they'd go after the very foundations of society and change them towards communist thought.

That's why these supposed academics and postmodernists use what is called Critical Theory. Please note this is not critical THINKING.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory

To a communist, if you aren't in charge, you are a slave, oppressed and consigned to menial persecution by the one whom is. That's why so many of these people on this bandwagon claim cis-hetero people and cis-heteronormativitiy isn't just oppressive because it excludes gay or trans people from the cultural narrative, it's oppressive because only .8% of the population are trans or gender nonconforming, and that's not equal. So they see straightness, whiteness and maleness through the lens as an ultimate oppressor that needs to be brought to heel and the situaiton equalized.

It's a philosophy that is designed to turn you into a hater of cake if you say you love pie.

These people are not above using propaganda and lies about gender and sexuality in order to try and "fix" this problem of gays only being 5% of the population, at max, and trans folk being less than 1%. So they encourage this "gender fluidity" nonsense (and it is nonsense) and this mentality that gender is only an idea, with genitals and chromosomes just being circumstantial and unimportant to whether you're male or female, because it destroys "the white cis hetero patriarchy."

It's not limited to just gender issues, either. These people are the ones who've eaten the core out of feminism and are wearing it like a bulletproof suit to do their stupid bullshit. They relabeled themselves intersectional feminists, but what they really are are a borg, a gestalt of social issues, using women's special role in society and making everything a feminist issue, specifically because feminism can always use the female oppression card for both male sympathy and female acceptance as fact. Their very conception of "social justice" involves preventing non-PoC (and whites are the only people excluded from being PoC) from getting employment if a Person of Color needs a job, preventing men (specifically white men) from getting scholarships for school, if a female (ideally a Woman of Color) needs one, and gladly and lovingly opening the borders for immigration, specifically from india, africa, south america and asia. Less asia these days, because the asians tend to reject their "it's us vs. THEM" mentality and just be doctors or engineers or shop owners.

The people pulling their strings are in fact the same fussy babies that went around and had Antifa (antifascist) tantrums after Trumps inaugural. Which is why they went around inscribing hammers and sickles everywhere and were walking around with red and black flags. They really wanted Clinton and the protection she'd bring to academia and civics to win. Trump in there endangers everything, but what they're trying to do to the culture and the narrative especially.

EEehh, I can kinda see their point on the social element where girls are meant to like pink, play with dolls, and boys are meant to play with weapons and like blue. I can see that; but there's nothing actually -stopping- parents from buying toys 'for the opposite gender'. Not to mention there are toys for both in an attempt to cross the roads of gender rolls, like the HUGE chunk of the lego isle that is dedicated to girls and the area where there's play dough with pics of boys on it baking cakes and stuff. I mean how is that completely overlooked? It's not NOT there, I guess it's just overlooked by parents that don't care enough to roam each isle and just claim a sexist environment or something like that.

Whoaboy, shit just got real and deep at the same time. *jaw drops at that wiki* o_o I had no idea this shit was going on for this long. But in all honesty, none of these people are in charge; so they're all slaves in their own ideology. Or is it that making even 1 person feel worse and less through social oppression and bullying makes them feel enough in charge to raise above 'slave status'?

Just hard to believe that they would want something that has so far never worked in any county long-term without completely oppressing and nearly demolishing the working class. Then again, most of them aren't working. But what happened in communism when you don't work? :u

They ignore progress, because progress is just a lie towards their end goal. They've just used the veneer of progress as a stepping stone to what they really want. :\ They've been disingenuous and part of the conversation to help shape it for so long that they feel entitled to continue doing it. Adding their own ideas, all of them horrible, to ways to resolve things like minority unemployment and healthcare costs.

The fact that boys, naturally, are drawn to weapons, aggression, like any other primate (and they've done studies across MANY PRIMATES.. all of us do pretty much the same, not counting the rare, rare outliers of gender) is seen as a cultural and social flaw that needs to be stamped out. They aren't afraid to do the "pray the gay away" style denial of reality, so long as it's denial of reality in the way they want. They aren't afraid to try and shape policy to shape PEOPLE, not simply accommodate them. They aren't above thinking maybe if they encourage homosexuality, maybe more people will choose to be homosexual. Which is wrong, of course, but they firmly believe you can be "cultured" to do what they want.

In short, they're psychopaths.

As for them not being in charge? You so sure? They've been entrenched in academia since the 40s. They have been subtly affecting curriculums and since the 70s have been openly marxist/socialist. The universities and colleges with strong gender studies and sociology programs are where these deranged children indoctrinated with this sweet sounding "fight the power" nonsense comes from. This idea that capitalism is inherently oppressive to people who aren't rich, and the idea that white people inherently have wealth and privilege by being white people (class, again, taken to a marxist literal conclusion)

They have tenure. That means those professors teaching this garbage pretty much can't be fired, and any attempt to do so would just make the "oh no the capitalist patriarchy is acting! Quick, protect freedom of speech!" hornets nest swarm.

The Oppression Olympics is a real thing, but ultimately it's unimportant when they use a hierarchy of priorities. And right now, these misc. people and the white sympathizers to their cause (the overzealous social justice bullies) are assembled and deranged to work against capitalism, work against society in the hopes they can somehow destroy white male heteronormativity.

The ultimate purpose of course is to get rid of peoples ethnicity, gender, ethnic cultures and religions and then "well, GUESS WE'RE ALL READY TO BE PROPER SOCIALISTS NOW THAT ALL THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN SHAMED OUT OF US AND WE'RE ALL THE SAME!"

People were just unable to really call it for what it is because the layman isn't informed. Or they could be smeared in Old Media as a racist, sexist, anti-semitic McCarthyist and automatically be deplatformed or ignored. Any attempt to explain it being met with doubt and skepticism, the burden of proof being on poor people who can't really afford to go to college to prove these professors were feeding this hateful indoctrination in the form of something else. So... it was left to fester, like an 800 pound gorilla nobody could do anything to make leave.

Thankfully there's pushback against it from places I was not expecting it. ^.^

Otherkin actually were around before all the SJW bs.

They pretty much bastardized it, unfortunately.

It's not needed at all. Just be yourselves and be happy with it for God's sake indeed!

Says the guy who pretends to be a anthro black dragon with antlers. :p

Kind of a mute point coming from you though.

It's a moot point from anyone on FA.

Moot point from anyone that exists honestly.

:/

second'ed

Yep.

I'm having trouble trying to figure out what your actual problem is here.

Is it people asking you about your characters' genders and/or sexual preferences? If so, I think they're just trying to be respectful.

Is it the use of terminology like "cis"? That's literally just a modifier with the opposite meaning of "trans". It's not an insult any more than the words "red" or "metal" are.

Is it people whose gender doesn't fit the sex they were assigned at birth asking people to respect their identities and pronouns? How is that any different from literally every person in the world expecting you to, say, call them by their name? I mean, I assume that when you tell someone your name you expect that they'll extend the courtesy of at least getting it right, right?

I mean, I know folks can be combative but in these kinds of situations I expect you would be, too, if you were in their shoes. This isn't people wanting to be special, this is people wanting to be normal while others are constantly telling them that they're not for completely arbitrary reasons.

I will agree that cis has been used in a negative context, but more or less exclusively with regards to cis people (which is to say, people who aren't trans) trying to either lecture trans people on trans issues, or when referring to the tendency to erase or otherwise diminish trans people from society, whether that be intentional or otherwise.

Also, this conversation you're talking about could refer to a number of things. If it's a conversation where people try to get educated on trans issues, I've never really seen it used to push people away, unless those folks had overstepped some bounds before.

If this conversation is referring to a broader conversation on the kinds of rights that should be afforded to trans people, cis has been generally used in a negative sense when responding to people who are arguing while under the impression that basic rights and human dignity are up for debate, which is, frankly, insulting of them, so I don't lose much sleep over its use in that context.

To dismiss any person's talking point because of the fact they do or do not align with their current ideology of their personal gender is absurd, even if it's about a trans topic. Why not just listen? They might have insight from other people that the individual trans person hasn't personally experienced, and as long as it's constructive and well mannered, why not?

As for the Cis term used negatively, I've seen quite a bit of what SJWs would call 'hate speech' against them; as if somehow they're evil or wrong for not accepting what they were born with and being comfortable with it.

The whole "cis" thing is a nasty piece of passive-aggressive work: "Don't you put your labels on me, cis!" Why should anyone have to identify according to what they are not? The false righteous indignation is ridiculous and pretentious. For example, trans folks don't want to be trans — they want to be their correct gender. But I guess they're not allowed to, because that would be offensive. All this special snowflake bullshit is profoundly disrespectful of everyone except the snowflakes.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Cis isn't used as a response to being labeled something, generally. Cis literally just means the opposite of trans, as a modifier. When applied to people it refers to folks whose gender matches the sex they were assigned at birth, whereas trans means people whose gender does not match the sex they were assigned at birth. That's it.

Trans folks generally only don't want to be trans in the sense that they usually wish that their birth sex matches their gender. I don't know any trans people who want to be considered not trans, like, that's not how it works. They don't strive to not be trans anymore. Transitioning isn't about becoming cis.

I mean, I'm having a hard time explaining this because I'm honestly baffled by this comment. It comes off like you're using these "labels" I guess in a way that nobody else on earth uses them, like, your use of them is close enough to feel recognizable, but off just enough to be mystifying rather than anything else.

Perhaps you're assuming that you have the masses behind your opinion, and haven't looked over your shoulder.

Tell me, what's the opposite of a postal worker? What's the opposite of someone with diabetes? There is no such title, because we don't identify the absence of minority status, we identify exceptions. To impose "cis" on the majority is linguistically and socially pointless, so what's the purpose? It's a bullshit "take that!" It's a finger raised at people who have nothing to do with you, just because they exist. So frankly, fuck you too.

It's not really any of those things. Cis is used because it literally means the opposite of trans. As in, "trans" is latin for "on the opposite side of" and "cis" is "on the same side". And it's a better alternative when talking about people than dividing them into "trans" and something like "normal". By describing something explicitly as normal you also imply that any deviation from that is abnormal or wrong in some way, which isn't really the case with trans stuff. It's not abnormal, just uncommon. And It's also a more accurate descriptor anyway, since there's still some variation possible under the cis label, whereas "normal" implies an overall consensus and rigidity that quite frankly doesn't exist.

Also, you absolutely do identify the absence of minority status in a whole crapload of cases. Race springs to mind. The majority of people who aren't part of a specific profession or field of knowledge/study are called laypersons in matters concerning that profession or field.

I don't understand the hostility here, like, you disagree with a term that has an honestly pretty long history dating back to waaaay before you're probably aware of, and you dismiss or insult a whole group based on that, or make generalizations about them that just aren't backed up by reality at all? I dunno, I have the feeling I won't be able to convince you either way so we can just leave it at that, I suppose.

I don't think boo was being aggressive in their statement, but rather trying to explain things, so your particular insults at the end seem uncalled for.

The use of the term "cis" versus "trans" in terms of sexuality was coined back in the late 90's in a German scientific publication and has been used to varying degrees since. While it can be used while trying to insult someone (not that it should), those who use it in the normal sense of a descriptor aren't trying to insult you (e.g. boo). Your additional questions of opposites isn't really along the same lines but can be used to make a point. Someone who isn't a postal worker is a non-postal worker, but postal workers might consider you a resident, or a civilian as you're not a government worker. Someone without diabetes is often called "healthy" by doctors. They're all some kind of a label, so I'm not sure why you want to use that particular argument.

I was in a spot like you mentally at one point, I didn't like the idea of having any particular label imposed on me, but at the same time I realized that it didn't really matter in the long run because we rarely recognize the number of labels that are imparted upon us on a regular basis. Those who happen to sling the term "cis" in a manner of being hateful are not in the right in how they are using it, and I didn't appreciate it when it happened to me. However, when I spoke with a friend of mine who is a trans man, I got a better understanding of the appropriate use of the terms, and that they have been scientifically accepted in their use at some level. Additionally, right now, those who are transgender have had to deal with a large amount of derision just based on who they are. When your existence is questioned/threatened on a regular basis it isn't a surprise that anger would be part of the result.

I would implore that rather than responding to boo with anger, that you take some time to talk to them, normally, without the chip on your shoulder. They seem like they want to be informative not combative.

See guys, this is why Trump won.

You're too busy worrying about the little things like "micro-aggressions" and "triggering" so that you've lost site of what REALLY matters.

And now look, we've got people threatening to kill and beat up other people who use the wrong bathroom, domestic abuse victims are being deported, the press is being stifled, and we're slowly but surely moving towards fascism.

And yet, all this inconsequential "cis-trans" label shit is STILL the only thing you seem to care about.

Its also sad that they have no other identity than that.

Okay, you're right, too far.

I don't care about the origin of the... 'word'. German scientific publications don't get to play Humpty Dumpty with the English language. I hate pretty much all pathological neologisms, like "grok," or "alternate fact," or "walker." We already have perfectly good words for these, like "understand," "lie," or "zombie." "Cis" is otherwise known as "normal." That's only offensive if you believe that difference equals inferiority, and if you do believe that, then then thrusting a label upon someone is an attack on their state of being. Incidentally, I say this as a 'non-normal' person in multiple regards. Part of being different is the emotional onus for that difference. Life isn't fair.

As to the anger, when I argue I put some thought and effort into it. So, when someone dismisses what I have to say without examination just to repeat their stock argument ad infinitum, yes, I get a tiny bit miffed. Am I supposed to respect that kind of dishonesty? Am I supposed to respect the disrespect for my effort? Should I continue what is proving to be a frustrating and futile conversation with an intellectual brick wall?

And I think it's important for those who use a word in social ignorance to see for themselves that yes, it does piss people off. Nobody is okay with having an unwanted label thrust onto them. I'm sure you can think of a few choice instances where this has happened before, but which I can't repeat because it's offensive. "But that's minorities!" So it's okay if the millionaire elite start referring to the rest of us as "peons"? Didn't you twitch just a little bit when you first read the word "muggle," even in a work of fantasy?

Please remind me to ask Dragoneer for the link to this when we can start favorite-ing comments :D

People are NOT ASSIGNED sex at birth. You tell me that doctor has a jar of vags and penises and just puts them on babies? There are only two sexes/genders, one has vagina and other has a penis, sometimes people are born as hermaphrodites but those are very rare cases and are not conisdered as third sex, its an anomaly of the TWO, and not always easy to identyfy without looking inside of the body. Doctor just looks between the legs and annouces the gender/sex by what he sees, not assigns it. Geezas.
I have no problem with REAL transgenders who suffer through identity crisis becaouse of it, but they still go between TWO sexes/genders. Male to female, female to male. TWO. they are not third or five or millionth gender. Most of them also have enough common sense to keep it away from public sphere, and treat that as private matter, and they don't go outside screaming about it and make demands upon it. People who put million gender labels on themselves becaouse they don't see a difference between gender and sexual preferences, in public, are just morons who crave for attentionand not identity. Everybody has problems, and everybody feels like misfit at some point in their lives, some people even for all the time, Its their problem NOT the whole world's. I refuse to be labeled by a trans-trending-cancer community who I don't even respect and which is creating a bad name for real transgenders. They can boil themselves in teheir own sauce of TUMBLR delusions, but they shouldn't bring it outside and make demends on majority of people, and then call them names because they got laughted out at their propesorous bullshit. Even the REAL trans community laughs at it and shows it the middle finger.

Apart from the sarcastic jar thing, you are literally wrong on all counts. Sorry for taking up your time, I guess.

It wasn't sarcasm to begin with but reductio ad absurdum. I see that problems with dictionary are pretty common as well.

"Reductio ad absurdum" I think I'm in love...

I suggest you spend some time learning about how sex is a lot more complicated than a simple binary. To begin with, the portion of the population which is intersex is about 1/60.

And yes, people are indeed assigned a sex at birth. Most of the time the assignment is easy, (i.e. the child is not intersex), sometimes it requires the assistance of a specialist to make a determination regarding ambiguous genitalia, and sometimes the doctor and/or the parents simply make a decision, (which is sometimes then imposed through surgery, although that bit of butchery is becoming less common).

You are also completely wrong on gender being a simple binary, things like genderqueer[1] and agender are very real things.


[1] "Hermaprodite" would be a sex, not a gender.

sorry i hate the term cis because I'm not a darn subspecies of male a MtF trans person is female in my eyes a FTM trans person is male point blank period. we aren't subspecies of humans and there aren't two different types of males and 2 types of female this form of separation needs to friggin stop my own trans friends even my Ex gf never called me Cis and refused to call me cis quoting them "ive spent most of my life just wanting to be a normal girl now come to find out normal girls are cis and i can only be trans" thats why i hate the term cis

i agree with you here sir.

Excuse me, did you just assume that I'm not a xagrusexual hnorkmale?

The only people who need to know someone's physical sex or preferences are those who might end up naked with them..

Beyond that, I'll just try to be polite, but I don't see myself using neologisms: singular 'they' is about as far as I'll go.

I bow to that.

Too bad there are a number of artists who've made Tumblr their primary gallery...

Your avatar is hilarious.

Yep, a SJW called me sexist because I thought women were able to make their own decisions without the influence of society. Yeah... still not sure how that happened myself. Tumblrinas are interesting specimens...

Agreed, agreed, and agreed again.

Feel your pain

Tumblr has devolved into a giant pile of human feces over the past years. I'm not 100% sure what even triggered this all. People getting all up in arms about trivial things, about the sexuality/gender/race of fictional characters... it's disgusting, tbh. Even moreso when they decide you need to get involved, when you're actively trying to avoid it all.


All those fake genders they created... when in truth, there are only THREE. And there always will be only three. Four, if we're being kind. Male, Female and Intersex. "Trans" as single denotation that they're currently transitioning (tho, technically, they would be intersex during the process). But once they're done- NO. No more special snowflake. If you have boobs and a vagina, female. No boobs and a penis, Male. Presto. You're no longer trans, you're now the other gender. You're not a Trans (Wo)man, you're just a Wo(man).
Or...genderfluid. You don't change gender on a daily basis, even if today you're being a dick and tomorrow a big pussy. That concept is dumb. It's not a gender, it's just a feeling. :/

No, just two genders. Birth defect is not a gender, intersex are males with physical traits of females or vice-versa, they don't have reproductive organs exclusive of both genders, that would be impossible. Trans aren't intersex, they just take hormones and plastic surgery in order to have the physical appearance and hormonal balance of the target sex. Although that means trans don't technically change sex I agree that trans people should have some self-respect and stop calling themselves trans when they stop taking additional measures to transition, or at least take it with a good mood like Blaire White

I wonder how many would accept that I am in fact a male gryphal in not the human being I was assigned at birth.

Well, for starters... what online community isn't full of complete fuckwits in one way, shape or form? Tumblr's got their "SJW" nonsense, Twitter is notorious for racist, sexist hate speech... and don't even BEGIN to start with YouTube. There's shit people everywhere you go.

As for the whole "gender identity" issue, I say let people do what they want, so long as they don't shove it in other people's faces... for the most part, at least. When it comes to me, I'm on the side of there being 3-5 genders overall (male, female, legitimate hermaphrodite, male to female and female to male). Sexual preference isn't gender identity... and in that case, I would say there's 4 types of that as well (you like men, women, both or neither). I don't go into the whole "30-100+ genders" thing, because it's a bit insane and nitpicky. If someone sexually identifies themselves as an attack helicopter, okay cool... if it offends them that I don't see that to the point where they need to point it out to me, okay fine... but I'm not going to know until they say something... and if they're going to be a dick about it, then it's just going to create a scene for little good reason.

Still, it's not exactly like being "politically correct" is new, nor have I ever been that big into it. I remember in the 90s where extreme women's rights activists wanted to change the spelling of women to "womyn", in order to remove the word "men" out of it, as well as be offended at other words with "man" in them. I remember the whole "god is female" nonsense in where these activists would have to bluntly point it out (IE: God? Oh, HER again..."). I thought it was dumb there too, to be completely honest.

If I were to give some simple advice in these situations, I would just say to either ignore questions/comments about things like that or, if someone asks what character's gender or pronauciation is, just give a general term "She's a girl. She likes guys." and, if they press further, then simply say that's as far as you went with it and you don't see a point in making it more complicated than that. As for the whole "cis" thing, just consider it white noise.

I totally agree that such things are private and shoving them into people's faces is downright rude.
I don't agree on gender part. There are only TWO genders. Transitioning people don't count as a separate genders because they want to become one of the two and after that they want to be called male or female. Hermaphorites don't posses a third gender either, they are mix of the two but that doesn't create a new one, hence why they also go thrugh procedures to become one of the two. We need only two genders to breed, there is no third needed for that, and if there is I would really want to know how that works in practice. :) Also sexual preference is not a sexual orientation. You can be hetero, homo , bi or asexual, everything else is just a preference to your orientation... except for asexuals who could care less.

I mean, on a completely biological standpoint, there are two main genders with an incredibly rare third. Legitimate, biological hermaphrodites are somewhere in between, so it's not really correct to say that they simply don't exist or that they fall into one of the two other genders - they simply don't. As for the other, non-biological genders I mentioned before, it's a lot more of a mental thing. There's enough people out there that want to be the opposite gender, so whatever.

And yeah, sexual preference does not equal sexual orientation.

But your mind doesn't determine your biology. Your sexual preference doesn't determine your anatomy (outside of if your aroused or not, but that's diving into more philosophy of it). If one wants to be a different gender; then be it. The world, for the most part, doesn't give half a turd. Just don't go waving it around and cramming it down people's throats, and there won't be a problem o_o

+1

The number of genders is entirely up to how finely you want to divide things. Gender is not a set of discrete possibilities, it's not even a simple spectrum. At a minimum, gender has to be described on two axes: How much are you a "man" and how much are you a "woman".

If you plot them on the standard Cartesian plain, you can cut it up into regions in all sorts of ways. You can do a simple cut along the M=W diagonal to get two genders, you can divide out a region around that diagonal, you can isolate the area near the origin, etc. In the end you end up with a large number of terms describing various regions that overlap with each other, and frankly that's no sillier than how a city will have multiple overlapping ways of describing what part of the city you are in[1].

As for the you "not wanting to know" thing: That sounds a lot like the people who said they had no problem with homosexuals, so long as they didn't "shove it in everyone's faces."


[1] I could say I'm in West Hill, Guildwood, Scarborough-Guildwood, Ward 43, etc.

- At a minimum, gender has to be described on two axes: How much are you a "man" and how much are you a "woman". -

Excuse me, just because woman has ,for example, a lower more manly voice or or even a beard it doesn't make her any less woman or any more man, it doesn't create a new gender. You are a woman who happens to have something in her genes or producing a bit more testosterone, but it is still a woman. OR do you wanna say, that my husband is not a man but something else because his face has more delicate "feminine" features? That's downright preposterous. You can't separate people like that. What would you say to a woman with beard? oh, you are this and that because you have a beard and that puts you in some place in spectrm. Or to a guy with tits? You know how rude and insolent that is? You lot get your feelings hurt because somebody "misgendered" you simply because he doesn't belong to your clique, but at same time you are doing exactlly the same, or even worser because you are trying to push your own labeling system on people who don't even believe or know about this stuff. Who are you to say to others that they are more or less of a woman or man? Who are you people to even decide about such things?

You can't draw lines at every genetical curve or hormonal hesitancy. Every person is different with their set of hormonesor or genes, but that doesn't create anything new in terms of gender or sex, that just creates a biologically and mentally unique person as it is. Everybody is unique like that. but they are just man and women. Even transsexuals want to become either a man or a woman, and they sure want to be called and identyfied as one of those, and not something that some clique of unstable teenagers invented somewhere to label their mental instabilities.

But apprently your lot likes labels. The more labels there is the better person feels about themself because they make her so unique and special. That's fine, everybody likes to feel exceptional from the others, and if that kind of segregation suits your clique, good for you. But guess what, most people don't like labels, specially iamginary ones that function within some separtaed circle of shared adoration. I am only sorry for your lot that it can't distinguish itself with something more real and productive. You lot created a very nice biosphere for yourselfs, so keep it inside. You think that most of the world is like you? Sorry to break it to you, but most of the world dosn't give a shit about TUMBLR or BUZZFeed, and your artificial genders which those hives of cancer produce. Stay in there with it and don't assume that whole world is like that or even accepts it.

You also need to learn the difference between sex and gender, given that you keep pointing to sex traits when talking about gender. Here is the quick way to tell the difference between sex, gender identity and gender expression: If the trait is about the physical makeup of the person's body, it's sex, if it about how the person thinks, it's gender identity, if it's about how the person acts, it's gender expression.

Who are you to say to others that they are more or less of a woman or man? Who are you people to even decide about such things?

Given that I am not a mind reader, (and neither are you), I simply fall back on the simple technique of believing people when they describe their gender identity. It's your side in this sort of argument that is telling other people what they are.

You can't draw lines at every genetical curve or hormonal hesitancy.

A glimmer of a clue!

You're right: There aren't any simple bright lines! That's why I said: "In the end you end up with a large number of terms describing various regions that overlap with each other...."

but they are just man and women.

And we're back to the simple, and wrong, binary.

Even transsexuals want to become either a man or a woman, and they sure want to be called and identyfied as one of those,

And, again, you are wrong. There are certainly people whose sex is at one corner and whose gender identity is at the other but that is not the whole. There are plenty of people who are somewhere in between, and you are reading the post of one of them RIGHT NOW!

mental instabilities.

The only mental instabilities involved are the ones caused because people have to deal with bigots.

But apprently your lot likes labels.

Labels have utility, in that they can take something that would take time and effort to describe and boil it down into a word or two. Saying "agender", "genderqueer" or "genderfluid" is faster than saying "not really being much in the way of either a man or a woman," "having a gender identity which is a mix of being a man and a woman," or "having a gender identity where the exact mix varies over time."

Stay in there with it and don't assume that whole world is like that or even accepts it.

Where have I seen that attitude before?

Oh, that's right:

"Gays shouldn't go out and throw their sexuality in people's faces."

http://i.imgur.com/yuXfJ2e.jpg

*applauds you* there's a reason I rarely post there its more toxic than 4 chan and thats saying something

4chan is a honest troll community and doesn't treat itself seriouslly like TUMBLR does.

My Doctor says I should avoid trans-fats. Whelp... so long tumbler.
(JK, Never been on the site.)

Right now, this is all that came to mind when I read your journal and I couldn't stop laughing my ass off.

Well thank you for calling over half my friends bullshit, stranger I was watching for some reason.

You were watching because you liked the art, same as everyone else on this account.

They could probably fix the entire bathroom issue with a simple sign change.

Penis on one, no penis on the other. Done.

If you physically have the equipment, -points-, go pee over there as the facilities are designed for it.
Otherwise, -points the other way-, go pee over there.

Don't like it ? Go home and pee in whatever manner makes you feel great.

Dunno why folks have to make this difficult.

Because its only identity that they have :) or at least they think they have

I've said it many times. There will always and forever be only two genders: female and male

That is reality. Slapping custom labels on something is not going to change the nature of that thing.

Or as the kid once said, "Boys have a penis. Girls have a vagina."

Sucks for anyone who hates the hand they were dealt with upon birth, but some things can't be changed, no matter how much you dress it up and claim it's something else.

Now when it comes to fiction and the imagination? That's a different story. In that case, I say more power to ya if your character is a 1/4 male, 2/3rds female, and 1/5th herm creating a (insert new gender here)

Well, I've read a novel about aliens and thay had legitimate five sexes to breed.

My mind is blown, just trying to think of how that even works. lol

it wasn't explained, but they laughted at a theory that there can be two sexes and saw it as impossible to breed. :)
It was written by sci-fi and philosophical visionary Stanislaw Lem, and it was part of a book of tales - "The star diaries". I just don't remember which tale it was.

Hundreds of genders have existed for thousands of years. It's pretty much the first thing I learned in my (at one of the top Universities in the world, by the way) anthropology class. We learned about many of them and I could link you to some if you'd like to read about other cultures. "Male" and "Female" is a Western ideology.

How about you name a gender, as in a legitimate biological gender, that performs a function that is OTHER than a male that impregnates a male or a female ovulating. And no, asexuality doesn't count. And I'd like a solid citation as well. If you can't or won't deliver, then I continue to call BS in any such claims to the contrary.

Asexuality isn't a gender. Biological often refers to the parts you have but can be problematic. For example, female hyenas have larger testitcles and penises than male hyenas.

Here are some genders from around the world that are present in other cultures:
Hawaii: Mahu
Navajo: Nádleehí
India: Hijra


Sources:
http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/articles/men-women-pacific
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/
http://abcnews.go.com/International/photos/indias-gender-20240959/image-20243244

I'm afraid this doesn't prove any scientific basis for more than two genders. My original statement still stands. Though at the very least, I do appreciate that you at least put forth genuine effort to show me otherwise, rather than how most people would make excuses for not doing it. Also, I stand corrected on asexuality.

I think it's because you may be equating genitals with gender. A lot of time people go, ah, a vagina! That means you're "a girl". That's not always the case. Gender is a social structure that varies from culture to culture. Biology is something different.

However, it is my personal belief system that if someone says "I am a girl" and they have a penis that they are biologically a girl. Because that's what they say they are, so they're a girl. They just happen to have a penis.

That's just it. THAT is a social construct. One can't just arbitrarily declare, "Hey! I'm a girl!" when they are biologically male, then poof, they're a biological female. All the surgery in the world can't change one's chromosomes and DNA. It would be like claiming that a pen is a pencil or a car is a truck. You can't relabel something and have it magically become that something. In the end, there are two genders, male and female. Everything and anything else is a social construct; a means of belittling the hand you were dealt at birth.

I think it would be for the best that we cease this conversation here, because we're probably never going to see eye to eye on this. Let us simply agree to disagree and move on. So thank you for being civil, which is more than I can say for a lot of people on such touchy subjects.

Female hyenas have a pseudopenis. Get it right mate.

Cool.

What does tumblr "social justice" have to do with people asking how to pronounce your character's name? I don't get it,lol.
Atleast they asked instead of just saying it completely incorrectly.

I wouldn't give a damn if they did or not. No normal person does. But it's damn annoying when somebody pushes its delusions on you and expets you to follow them.

I never found out if you are able to comment on tumblr. I can´t, maybe i´m to stupid. But i think thats what drives them all to tumblr. No public comments, you just collect likes, everything else is left outside. You don´t get shit in public, an that makes it look like everybode agrees. Makes everything easy. Sad thing is that some artists only post there.
And yes if you are a LGTBXYZ12345OMG whatever i just watch your art and thats it.

They sit in their private biosphere and think most people on the world follows it.

word!

I'm glad there are some furries who aren't stuck on the Tumblr bandwagon. I wouldn't give a shit about what genders people wanted to invent if they didn't jump down people's throats when they got them "wrong".

Tumblr is a prime example of where the next generation's going to get its janitors and drug addicts, because these people sure aren't fit for a civilized society.

+1
and to be clear, I am not a furry :)

So let's see if I got this right: You leave the site for about 5 months just to come back not talking about any commissions being done but to sling mud at transgender people simply because Tumblr is terrible? Wow boy, I mean nevermind the fact that transgender people existed before you were even born, no it is much more easier to publicly disrespect those who never did any harm just because some miserable children on a useless website tries claiming the concept for themselves.

Where I was or for how long, it's none of your business. I am also not talking about REAL transsexuals/transgender people, but TUMBLR/ BuzzFeed trans-trenders who try and pick up a ride on the same train. I have real problem with presumptuous, delusioned people who try and impose their problems on me and rest of the world, and dare to dictate how we are suppose to act and behave.

So what, saying that trangender people are autistic or living in a bio-sphere in the comments while disregarding info that the ACTUAL transgender community already knows is justified before you were told what to do? Sir, I would say "stop going to Tumblr and find actual people not living in a bubble" but that also counts as telling you what to do so I'll just carry this discussion with actual transgender people, I guess.

Luckyly I don't dwell on TUMBLR, its something that crawled to me elsewhere and I made the mistake of actually investigating that occurence, and i seem to bump on it more and more.

I was one of those folk who used to go on Tumblr every day, and at one point subscribed to the "genderfluid" and transtrender ideologies (but never considered myself AS any of them, just a supporter.)

How did that change? I don't know, perhaps it was the overall cult-like hivemind they have, also some of these people thought (and tried to convince me) I was FtM trans because I'm a freakin' tomboy, who isn't traditionally feminine (I'm a woman, get over it,) and these people have tried calling me asexual/demisexual because I'm really, really picky about people I date or have relationships with. I like dudes, but I prefer intelligence and personality (mostly) over looks.

Also I find the majority of the Otherkin portion of Tumblr (*cough* Tumblrkin *cough*) to be a big, cringe-fueled joke. Pretty sure most of them are trying to call themselves an Otherkin to give themselves a bigger snowflake status. Makes me rather not tell people close to me that I'm one myself, due to fears of being mixed up with the snowflakes. I rather say I'm a furry around normal people anyhow.

It destroyed alot of places ;_;

Just like this? https://youtu.be/AbNOWTjFrvw?t=2m7s

I identify as a guy who just post 2D pictures

*fistbump*

A lot of it is just dumb to me. Don't really care too much about a character's orientation. I find it ironic with the whole "don't use labels" yet they want to be labeled.

Hypocrisy is a beautifull thing.

Ahh good ol tumblr, the land where simple sexual preferences become Labeled Sexual Identities and the concept of gender becomes a Flavor of the Month based not on the obvious binary of our species but on the attention whorish need to belong to a group of crazy

and like every good ol' plague it can't stay contained in one place.

I believe the current count is 52 Genders for humans now. Picards forehead is not good enough anymore.

Best thing is, that even their spokes people can't remember or distinguish them :D Whenever i saw one they were using phones to actually find and read what are those "genders" :D

We Need to remove genders form restrooms.... make it so you have a pussy or a dick!

Copypasta inbound.

I sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of soaring over the oilfields dropping hot sticky loads on disgusting foreigners. People say to me that a person being a helicopter is Impossible and I’m fucking retarded but I don’t care, I’m beautiful. I’m having a plastic surgeon install rotary blades, 30 mm cannons and AMG-114 Hellfire missiles on my body. From now on I want you guys to call me “Apache” and respect my right to kill from above and kill needlessly. If you can’t accept me you’re a heliphobe and need to check your vehicle privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

This is why I am so obscure even on there, I don't like getting involved when it comes to people's problems.
I only have two tumblrs, one for a roleplay thing (I keep shit private) and the other to keep up with friends I've made at conventions.

PRoblem with people's problems is, that those asshats think their problems will be solved when, anybody who doesn't have gruel for a brain, will start and act accordingly to their BS. :)