FA+
Shop
Selling prints? (Questions and Concerns. )
8 years ago
For large pieces in the future. Since they're going to be at a quality that would be best for printing.
Would it be fine to start offering prints of said artwork at conventions or online, even if the artwork in question were a commission?
I've heard that many other artists do. I've always wondered about it, but have yet to do anything like that.
Of coarse we're talking about 7x9 and up, not badges or ref sheets or anything like that.
To other artists.
Do you sell prints of commissioned artwork? Is that a good thing to do?
Would you recommend doing that as a source of extra income?
How would one go about doing that?
What printing place do you use? (local or online?)
To Commissioners.
If you commission (large) art from someone, how would you feel about that artists then selling prints of it to the public at conventions or online?
Would you want the piece sent to you to have a special mark on it to state that it comes from the origin file, while the prints have a different mark?
(That way your piece would still be unique to anyone else's)
______________________
Of coarse I'd have to find a good printing place, which will be harder to do in my area.
Would it be fine to start offering prints of said artwork at conventions or online, even if the artwork in question were a commission?
I've heard that many other artists do. I've always wondered about it, but have yet to do anything like that.
Of coarse we're talking about 7x9 and up, not badges or ref sheets or anything like that.
To other artists.
Do you sell prints of commissioned artwork? Is that a good thing to do?
Would you recommend doing that as a source of extra income?
How would one go about doing that?
What printing place do you use? (local or online?)
To Commissioners.
If you commission (large) art from someone, how would you feel about that artists then selling prints of it to the public at conventions or online?
Would you want the piece sent to you to have a special mark on it to state that it comes from the origin file, while the prints have a different mark?
(That way your piece would still be unique to anyone else's)
______________________
Of coarse I'd have to find a good printing place, which will be harder to do in my area.
:)
Hoping to expand my 'menu' of art with some more low-cost options. Hopefully there will be something in the future that you'll like enough, and be able to afford. :3
I believe selling prints of species that do not feature an OC to be a totally legitimate practice. Say, somebody commissions you to draw an illustration of a pack of wolves running through the woods. Since that gives you a high degree of creative freedom, one can say that it's entirely your work, and that you were financially motivated to draw it.
However, things get rather tricky in my opinion when selling commissions of OCs. I, personally(And I stress personally), do not agree with this because of two main reasons. First, you have already been paid to do that artwork, and secondly, the OC belongs to their respective owner. I usually spend more than 10 hours designing my characters, creating their backstories and the like, so it is a rather time consuming process in which a lot of energy gets poured into it.
The way I see art featuring OCs is like a fifty-fifty partnership of sorts. You, as the artist, get employed and paid to draw my character. However, I, as the commissioner, supply you with the money, the character, and the references for it, which not only pays for your time, but also saves you the hassle of designing the character/putting up anatomy refs of them yourself. So, your work is yours, but since the characters, their design, the pose ideas are mine, I would expect that fact to at least be acknowledged.
Which is why this is an area that can cause you problems as an artist, as some people have very strong feelings towards their OCs. If you were in the commissioner position, would you feel alright with having an artist make a killing off selling prints of a character that is of your design, in which you invested a lot of time to make it unique? It's not a question of money, but of character ownership and/or copyrights, and unless you somehow credit the OC to their respective owners on the print(Not sure how/if that works O_O) a lot of buyers will simply assume the character is your design, which isn't exactly fair for the character owner.
So, my suggestions to you are the following if you want to proceed with this practice.
1) Contact the OC owners beforehand and ask them if they are alright with you selling prints with their OCs.
2) Inform them that credit for the character ownership will be given to eliminate the doubts of who owns the OC.
If they agree to this, then I personally see no issue with selling prints of OCs. The one practice I dislike is when artists start selling OC prints without even informing the commissioner and while taking the credit for the art as a whole, character included. That's not really nice, but at the same time, there is not much commissioners can do in that regard. For better or worse, we put ourselves at the mercy of the artist when we commission them :P
I don't really sell prints unless requested but I think it's fine to use a commissioned character? It's like those "being at this place you have a chance of being in pictures and used in advertisements".
Personally I'd be using a really generic character if I was to ever make prints to sell. I don't think many people want a beautiful art piece of someone elses neon rainbow winged hooved wolf thing.
But I don't think it's a bad thing.
You can even charge a fee for it, may artists do.
I personally would not seek a commission from artists who do not have that as an option.
But I think if the commissioner knows upfront that their commission could be sold as print later, there should not be a problem. If they dont like that, they are free to just not commission you.
I think if both sides know the detail of the deal, everything is fine.
(But I have to admit, I am mostly a traditional artist and the commissioner gets the original anyway. I dont know how they feel if there is "no" original and others get the "same" as they do)
Instead of including a clause in your ToS that you may sell prints of commissioned work, you should increase your commission prices to include compensation for exclusive rights, and then include an option for people to get a discount to your current level of pricing if they provide permission for you to sell prints.
I suggest that instead of the other way around, because people's characters are their property and their exclusivity. Consider it similar to e.g. characters published in media like Marvel or Disney characters - you can't just sell images of those characters even if you drew them from scratch, without legal ramifications.
Another point is that as a commissioner, characters are often personal. I'm sure folks wouldn't want their personal imagery be posted, printed, put up for display or what-have-you in a stranger's home, in that case. In a way it feels disrespectful to the character and person behind the character to make that a default practice.
So, to sum it up, my opinion: Don't do this by default, and if you want to sell prints, then do so only if you have explicit permission from the character owner.
To compensate for the money you're not earning from prints: increase your commission prices, but allow a discount for people who let you get money from prints (giving their permission in that case).
This right here. Exclusivity of commissioned work is a premium service, one that should be offered and have a higher price tag to match.
1) If you keep in your TOS that your retain rights to the artwork. then YES it is VERY VERY LEGAL to sell copies of YOUR artwork at conventions. I specifically say I retain the rights to sell printed versions of any artwork I produce, I retain the rights to edit or change any image I produce.
Here's why this really should be require for any artist selling their work: COMMISSIONERS ARE NOT BUYING THE RIGHTS TO THE ARTWORK THEY ARE ONLY BUYING THE TIME TAKING TO MAKE SAID ARTWORK. Publishing companies PAY JUST FOR THE RIGHTS TO PRINT, RESELL, ETC FOR PROFIT. and those rights can be upwards in value of 2k+ because most companies recognize that thats how much money you can make at cons selling those images. Example- my third year selling at Anthrocon I made about 3k IN MOSTLY PRINTS.
You are fucking yourself if you dont retain this right. Wizards of the coast(magic the gathering) lets artists retain resale/printing rights for this artwork for this reason. BUT you have to have that in your TOS.
other artists who would be good to talk about this is
-basically any bigger named artist.
this is one of those cases where I dont quite care what a commissioner thinks about the situation. The artists needs to take care of themselves and make sure they are paying their bills. artists cant make money purely off of art 90% of the time AND they are usually not even making minimum wage- selling prints and merch bridges that gap.
This is legal because you are NOT selling the rights of the original characters, just the art that YOU produced. GRANTED, this CAN be illegal in the case of fan art, but its a huge grey area.
Put it in your TOS you reserve the rights to print, edit, change, crop, etc all artwork you produce unless the client wants to purchase the rights for said product and then no one can complain. if they do- point them to your TOS that they agreed to the moment they commissioned you.
2) YES. Prints are actually my MAIN source of income and I think you would do EPICALLY at a con. I think you would do explosively well at ANY con too, not just furry cons. when you're sitting there and realize you can make at least several hundred dollars over a weekend, just from ordering quality prints. it is most definitely a good source of income.
3) I truthfully have only ever had luck selling prints in a physical setting, ei conventions. its a lot easier to sell something when people have a face connected to the art and they can hold and see it for themselves.
4) before I invested in a good inkjet printer I used iprintfromhome.com they are EXCELLENT quality, fairly inexpensive and they send you samples when you first use them.
Long story short. I'm THRILLED youre using 300DPI and you can start printing stuff. you would KILL at conventions and I THOROUGHLY believe that if you could start attending you'd greatly increase your income. If commissioners really have a problem with it, then they care little about you being sucessful if they understand that you are loosing potential money that would make your life significantly easier.
Most artists retain rights to make profit from the art they produce. this is how much of the art community EATS. The commissioners are not only paying for the time is took to create said image, they are helping pay for time for you to work on personal work too. Pritns give you some freedom to work on your own projects.
Its like this:
1)I dont get paid to do any personal work and have no guarantee if I'm going to be able to sell prints of it regardless(thats a chance you take with ANY work you produce and decide to make prints of)
2) being able to sell prints of work I've already done gives me some freedom. The time was paid for, any money made from prints can pay for the time to invest in yourself, your business, and time to pay for your personal projects.
3)Like I said, it's not uncommon for companies to pay solely for the rights to an image. these are PRINTING rights. if you made a personal image you could sell those rights to walmart and make a FUCKBUNCH of money. I DONT do that with client commissions because then it is a grey area of legality because another company is making money off of their character and your art versus you making profit off of your artwork.
4) some folks are saying you should raise your prices to compensate for publishing rights. the problem with that:
even when companies pay for publishing rights they usually only retain the sole rights for a few years. when you factor in that you could make thousands of dollars worth of money on prints you'd essentially need to factor that into the price. which becomes a price no one wants to pay...at least not in the furry world.
I realize that people are going to get mad at me and use the argument that this isnt a company situation and that this is the furry community. Well, sorry folks but if I want to eat and pay my bills, I look at company polices, what are effecting industry artists and why it effects them. there is a reason why bigger entities do these things and it makes sense. the artist HAS to look out for themselves. most artists you think are super successful are living moderately or fairly poorly. These types of things really do come down to -do I want to pay my bills?
Also I'd like to throw in that 99.9% of artists undercharge just for their time. If you pay $200 for an art piece and then spend 40 hours on it, youre talking CRUMBS. Definitely a non livable wage.
Making the argument that this is the internet , therefore laws dont apply here, is faulty at best. In that case both parties need to understand their laws. Does it get more complicated? yes. but if someone from finland buys artwork from an american, then the finnish person is bound by american laws and same goes the otherway. There is some grey area there.
And truthfully I AM also talking about good business ethics too. Both parties SHOULD know exactly what is expected of them. I'm simply fighting the argument on WHY is smart to retain printing rights. This is an unfeeling, I dont care what clients think, I need to eat and pay bills mindset. some artists fully would disagree with me and thats on them. I simply know whats standard industry wise and why it needs to become a standard thing everywhere.
The other problem with this argument if you're trying to make the case that I spent X amount of hours designing this and youre assuming the artist takings credit for the design. When I'm selling commissioned works I NEVER take credit for the design. that IS copy write infringement on the artists part. I'm talking reserving printing rights. They are not the same standpoint.
If someone asks me at a con if the prints I sell are commissions I say YES and then point out the ones I created for myself. There are also some folks whose character I instantly recognize because they are so popular, regardless of the artist who did them.
Those character rights still belong to you, that character is yours. if an artist was claiming the character as their own, you actually could do something about it, otherwise the moment you commission an artist you are agreeing to their contract and what they already have deemed appropriate.
Thats why you shouldn't commission an artist without talking about these things with them
if you came to me and asked for a commissions and said I couldn't make prints of that commission, well I would politely decline your business or offer you a price to pay for the printing rights to the image.
I do credit the creator of the character and even the IDEA of the commission on my FA page and wherever else I post the art, which is public. The only reason i expect the same of the client is because it's in my terms of service.
When I sell prints I dont have a watermark on it and the only thing I include is a business card and a signature. Most people at cons dont remember that signature or even me once they leave the con space.
This IS all about legalities versus feelings. what legally true: The character that you lovingly created is legally yours. It's copywritten to be yours. The artwork an artist creates, regardless of content, is theirs. If someone creates a traditional image of mickey mouse, not being commissioned by disney, they legally have rights to sell that image without ANY legal repercussions. It gets tricky when you mass produce that image. Now if disney commissioned an artist an image of Mickey mouse and they both agreed that the price doesnt include printing rights? The artist is free to print images and make profit outside of that.
Good business practice means both parties know what they are getting into before they have gotten into business. And yea each country has different legal ethics, but youre agreeing to the legalities of whatever country that that commissioner is from. Clients are fully capable to create their own terms of service on how their character will be used and wont be. I see it all the time on peoples FA pages regarding to free or gifted artwork.
Like
--Artist's signature
--Character belongs to (name)
That way it would also cover the OC creator, and let other people know that the character depicted actually belongs to someone.
- I do sell prints of commissioned artwork, IF it's a commission I think will sell well as a print; basically, if it's generic enough. This doesn't happen often. I have it in my ToS that I reserve the right to do this, or to edit a commission to make it usable as a print (example: turning a green husky gray so it's a generic husky). I have never sold prints of commissions that were done before I added this clause to my ToS. You can also always offer commissioners to pay extra to ensure there are no prints made of their piece.
- I recommend it, yeah
- If you only plan on selling online, you can use a site like RedBubble or Society6. They'll handle all the manufacturing, storage, and fulfullment, then throw you some money periodically. It's a LOT less money than you get doing it yourself, but also a lot less work, and you can see what images will sell without any investment. If you want to do it yourself, you get your work printed by a printer (there are online printing services, or you can find a local print shop). Once you have your prints, you post them in an online store of some sort, whatever you choose to use. Storenvy, Shopify, personal website, etc. And of course, if you go to conventions, that's pretty self-explanatory.
- I recommend SixthLeafClover's printing service. Amazing quality, turnaround, and customer service, and there's a backing board and sleeve included with every 8.5x11 print.
As a commissioner:
- I don't personally mind, especially if it's edited to not be my character like I explained above. Most of my characters are either really generic, or really NOT generic and therefore not suited for a print lol
- I'm not sure I understand what you mean, so I'm going to assume I don't really care XD
Good luck!
That's legal. It isn't *smart*, but it's legal.
Probably the smart thing to do is say that you reserve the right to do so with any art your produce, but then also offer a fee/add-on/whatever where commissioners can pay a little extra if they want to prevent sales, and offer that at any point after the commission is done as well, as well as do a "heads up" prior to setting up for sales.
The caveat is that I would have a reasonable time period for response ("I will assume you have no objections if you do not respond within two weeks"), and that they don't get to change their mind if they give an active affirmative.
But that's just me. Nobody would commission me for art. xD
----
As for SELLING prints?
https://inkedfur.com/ is admittedly run by a friend of mine, but he does what I used to do with selling prints. Check him out and talk to him.
I've been working on my site and my TOS all day. Lots of new updates.
Probably could be better worded as
"The artist retains all rights to work created, including, but not limited to, the right to make..."
Bolded clause is the important bit.