I want to help you!

I don't have good art, nor anything people want to steal.

Thanks for putting up the link! I've read the original post and I'm reposting the link now. Bots are getting too smart, this need to stop!

I hate art thieves!

While I do agree with most of this, I have to say that personally, I think it should be considered free game if the artwork is based of a copyrighted character, Lucario, Renamon, Krystal, etc. The artwork of these characters from what I understand aren't protected under fair use, no calling it parody doesn't count, parody means that it is for comedic purpose. So while artists like Kadath, Skygrace, and Miles-DF may have characters of their own that they post, or have the permission of a character owner, I just can't see things their way when they use characters that A: Don't belong to them, and B: They haven't gotten permission from Bandai, Nintendo, or whoever else to make a profit off of artwork depicting such characters.

true true, you got a point there

but there's also my effort that i put in, the time i take, the passion and the struggle on each and every single picture that is made. What they're doing is NOT fair at all.

The way artists use Patreon differs from artist to artist. For some like yourself, Patreon is used as a way to get paid to do art, while others like the before mentioned artists, use Patreon more as a do-it-yourself paysite. There's a distinct difference between the two, and while I feel that the former can afford some leeway in terms of copyright, paywallers don't have that wiggle room.

I'm glad there are some people out there with the mental capacity to see things reasonably. OCs would be protected, but no artist would have much of a right over public domain characters, without some alteration to make them unique, anyway.

As for the patreon subject, I have nothing to do but laugh. -> https://imgur.com/7ZlhkL9

These characters are not "public domain." That term refers to an entirely different set of laws applying to characters created more than a century ago. Used to be 75 years, but the "Save Mickey Mouse Act" made it so that nothing will be entering public domain for years.

"Parody" does not apply exclusively to comedy. Though comedy is the most common form of parody, any clearly transformative work meant to satirize, comment on or criticise a work can still meet the criteria. But remember that fair use isn't a law, it's a legal defense. Karabiner's "renamon as Marilyn Monroe" picture may be argued to be a commentary on how the fans see her, or even porn of her and Rika can be an exploration of how their relationship was portrayed in the show, but each image has to be defended on a case-by-case basis in court. Random pinups are really hard to defend, believe me.

From what i've heard, there is a difference between doing art under fair use and claiming ownership of characters.

Read the journal though little confused. Is it those who pledge then take art n never pay or some other new piracy tactic?

probably some piracy tactic.

May go research a bit more to see what this one is. Because the pledge n not pay tactic is sadly common.

Doom, love your work. But I'm confused.

Are you against people who save your work then copy it and call it their own? Or ppl who just claim they did it?

Or are you against the distribution of work you consider paid content.

Because, as I see it...your work is not tangible. I can't touch it, it has no intrinsic value. I totally agree with paying you to make something for me, but to make other ppl pay just to LOOK at it and nothing else, is very very odd to me.

Yes you should absolutely be paid for your time but at the end of the day your work isnt much more than pixels and data on a screen. I cant put it on my wall, and I can't interact with it.

If you ask me, I would want everyone to see my work, let them all look at it. Its free publicity and It'll encourage more people to pay me for art.

And if none of the second bit applies to you then please ignore it. Ppl stealing work and claiming it as their own need to die in a hole.

And if the second part DOES apply then please explain to me why Im wrong cuz I really just don't understand. I dont do art for a living, I do it for fun, so I dont really get it.

First thing first, i might not be that much spoiled, cause i always send the high res pics and the psd files through messages, so i think the trouble doesn't sit heavily on me, but other artists, like Skygracer, everything he made exclusive for patreon has been given to public.I believe that's piracy and it's a crime.

Secondly, some sketches AND early access of exclusive content that i wanted to be for patrons only, are being exposed for public. I eventually post everything that i do on patreon (except for some sketches) for public...but here's the thing: do you think it's fair to my patrons, who PAYS to get exclusive content before everyone else, that my work gets exposed for everyone to see? No, that ain't fair, they are paying for it, and people who isn't is getting these content for free, without my concern. And i fucking hate that.



anyway, i hope you understand

That does make sense, but clearly that involves a form of trust established among your patrons. It certainly isn't fair, but, honestly that business strategy seems doomed to fail anyway. Since your patrons may or may not be trustworthy, perhaps you need to adjust your tactics to defend yourself and justify the cost for early access.

Like it or not, there are a lot of ppl who think paying to look at something isn't a fair deal. So perhaps you can adjust your perks to make it better for people to pay, rather than steal.

And I dont mean punish your patrons, das bad for business.

I was called an art thief who scammed artists for free art, never paying them. It was a lie. This person and his troll squad then spread this lie to multiple websites. When I and several artists I bought art from reported it, I was suspended, and those artists I commissioned had their comments removed and our journals removed. Currently the harassment continues. I reported it here and on other websites. Nothing is happening. Every time an artist comments on my submissions saying I paid them, staff remove the comment... I don't know what to do... currently they are spreading a rumor that I was banned from FA a few years ago and that I should be banned from all furry websites... I've reported it on other sites... they take no action...

I wouldn't hate Patreon as much as I do if it weren't for some artists who PAYWALL EVERYTHING PERMANENTLY and the ONLY public stuff they post is heavily censored and/or cropped pics or just SFW garbage versions

useful read there
i dont mind having my art stolen, mine is not that good nor relevant to anyone
yours by other hand are awesome works and i understand your corcern. wil share this tho

I've heard about this site mentioned before the journal and it amazes me how a site like this is even managing still as more artists are aware. How exactly you can you stop or get rid of a site like this?

I've been putting a lot of effort into researching how I should handle my Patreon when I eventually launch it. Art thieves are definitely a concern, as well as the people who access the art but decline payment at the end of the month. I don't want to have to hide my art and send it out after payments go through so I hope Patron gets that cleared up soon.

I guess I'll have to feel my way around see how it goes. I want to make my art available for all to see, not lock it behind a paywall.

There is a real issue around copyright as mentioned earlier in the comments. I've had Nintendo issue a few DMCA take downs on some of my art from Tumblr. I spent a lot of time researching copyright and fan art as well as commissions of copyrighted material and it's a real difficult situation to fully understand.

I know fan art will be an important part of what people will pay for and it's hard to build a career out of such an unstable type of art. I imagine you must think about that a lot considering the importance of copyrighted characters in your art. As far as I know, there are no copyright holders going after fan art on Patreon so it may be a non-issue right now but it still worries me.

Balancing the actual art with the incentive to pay for it is tricky. I think we artists need to provide more than just the art. Audience participation is likely key to keeping people engaged so they don't just hunt the art down on sites that steal it. Developing a brand that isn't reliant on fan art is probably a good idea. I'm going to have to do a lot of thinking and experimenting with this in the next year as I don't believe it's reasonable to expect people to stop stealing art. It's so easy in the digital age.

Strict say that I take no sides, for I stay neutral as all have their own reasons for what they do. It is not for me to say if something is morally right or wrong. Also may be wordy issues that make no sense or grammar mistakes.


Patreon was designed to be a crowd source funding on a sensible level.
Not a "Make your own personal paywall small business here" site.
Once Artists started using Patreon in such unintended manners is when they gave incentive for piracy.
Don't go teasing people, the internet, with things and then throw them behind a paywall. Look at the gaming industry. Prime examples of what happens when things are teased then locked behind Micro-transactions or subscription fees? Boycotting takes place alongside piracy.

Before Patreon became the thing you, your parents and their parents had. Art theft was simple and low weight of an issue. For it was just people whom take and re-upload things and claimed as their own. Was not very hard to track them down and have such content removed, things were quite smooth of a process then. Now? Now we have people going on Patreon, grabbing all the "pay-walled exclusives and non public versions" and releasing to the public. You cannot track this down and stop it, but many believe it is possible. No, sadly this is where the term "hydra" comes in. Cut off one head, two more will grow or at least another.

The harder one tries to stop piracy, the harder pirates will work if deemed worth it. In the gaming industry, Denuvo DRM thought it was unbeatable, they were wrong. Now it is cracked within hours or a day now. Making content harder to obtain only makes it more difficult for those who fully support. At the same time it may make it harder for pirates to obtain, but they will find a way anyway. There is no true winning solution, such is only delaying the inevitable.

I fully agree with this. Morality and my personal hatred of Patreon for the reasons stated above aside, it is akin to trying to stop a ruptured water pipe with a BAND-AID. It just ends up wasting time/energy and punishes the people who do or want to legitimately show support.

Thank you Doom. Artists should decide how they distribute their content :) I noted you the group channel, where we can work around any piracy or misuse or any un desired places obtaining your amazing work. Don't ever feel pressured in protecting your work. Some are filled with envy from their entitlements. Your true supporters will admire your work and overall support you with the way you conduct yourself ❤

Im with you in this, your art should be kept as your art and you should be able to distribute it as you see fit! There should be no reason why a website should have to steal it from you, good luck with the take down!

Goddamned! Thank you for making this public. Though I am only just starting out, I was wondering about those random bots that came in and got kicked out at the end of the month each time... So this is what they were up too. And though I am not in the loop, I did find out which site programs/uses them and has a copy of all my art.

Ohw my i hope they get thier justice

What site are they talking about?

Get a real job

yeah i'm not gonna waste my time arguing with a moron like you

That was uncalled for and shows your admission to being too lazy to get a real job.

yep, that just proves my point that you are indeed a moron

I think what big is trying to say is waste your amazing talent and get a "real job" by flipping burgers. She has a lot of support for her amazing art why would she throw that away for a neglectful corporate job.

I work full time retail for company that sees as nothing but as expendable machines.
I think you provide a service you go above and beyond with DooM, don't ever stop your success by being your own boss ❤

No, more like, if you rely too much on your art to get by, it it's not working out, than you have to get over yourself and find other sources of income. It's not being a "corporate slave" or flipping burgers, it's called being a responsible adult.

So, if your not working for a corporation or franchise your not a responsible adult? Here is the definition of self employment for you, "The state of working for oneself as a freelance or the owner of a business rather than for an employer. "

I believe it is you who needs to get over yourself my friend. I'm sorry that you feel as if you need to go out of your way to attack someone. . . how sad :(

No. Why is that the only alternative answer to being a struggling starving artist? If that's what you want to do, fine, but don't act like a charity case when "doing what you love" isn't putting food on the table. There are people out there In worse situations than you who actually do need help. Who are impoverished by situations out of their control, and not because they were too proud to get back on their feet doing a job they didn't want to do.

:Y ok but this isn't about that... at all, this journal is about people stealing content and your going to make this into a whole different topic? Are you wanting a sticker for pointing out the obvious.

Yes there are jobs that are more difficult then art,no one is saying that and no one is bring up being a "starving artist" or wanting sympathy.This is about being aware of how to protect yourself as not only an artist but a content creator so i'm not understanding what point your trying to make?

:U You are making my brain itch from how off the rails you are becoming, go be a responsible adult and get off the internet, please
I'm not here to argue with a child, have a good day dude. ✌

You took it in that direction by mentioning flipping burgers. But whatever. Those who draw porn versions of other people's properties don't deserve to complain about people "stealing " their art.

They have more than a "job" DooM has a successful career that they are making for themselves.