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15 Do animals sweat? A chapter in anthro logistics
16 years ago
thefunkyone's journal "Anthro Logistics" from way back in January.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/600349/
Very comprehensive discussion, and, among the replies one FA user introducing the idea that animals don't necessarily sweat.
But, wtf? Animals don't sweat? To me, this was a BOMBSHELL.
Because, as is the very subject of discussion, if animals don't sweat, would that mean anthros don't sweat either?
at some point I realized, that I haven't looked into the subject any more since then, despite actually considering not drawing sweat and even re-evaluating the use of sweat as an emotive device. (see also: blushing through fur)
So why not find out?? To google it was.
Do animals sweat.
wikipedia: "Mammals are a class of vertebrate animals whose females are characterized by the possession of mammary glands while both males and females are characterized by sweat glands, hair, three middle ear bones used in hearing, and a neocortex region in the brain."
"Perspiration (also called sweating or sometimes transpiration) is the production of a fluid, consisting primarily of water as well as various dissolved solids (chiefly chlorides), that is excreted by the sweat glands in the skin of mammals."
ok, so I take it that only mammals have sweat glands. (but apparently this does not necessarily mean that they are used to the extent of humans, and/or if the the animal has as many sweat glands as a human)
"Animals with few sweat glands, such as dogs, accomplish similar temperature regulation results by panting, which evaporates water from the moist lining of the oral cavity and pharynx. Primates and horses have armpits that sweat like those of humans."
Ok so we have dogs, which don't sweat like humans and rely on panting, and horses, which do sweat like humans but only in specific parts of their body.
One user on answers.yahoo.com says that horses sweat from all over their body, he/she may be wrong but I would believe it because when riding a horse at one time when I was a kid, my jeans got horse sweat on them.
more user posts, some of which reveal that apparently footpads sweat. Any of these might be accurate.
- "Just like any mammal they have sweat glands and sweat to cool themselves down in the summer. However the effect isn't as good as with humans as it's more difficult for the sweat to be evaporated away from their body due to all the fur. This is the case with warm blooded mammals."
- "A cat sweats through its feet mainly unless over heated then they will open mouth pant."
- "Yes but only through certain parts of their bodies. For example, the pads on a dogs feet."
- "yes animals sweat but some animals sweat glands are not in the obvious places such as foot pads"
- "Most animals can't sweat the way we do, we adapted that ability because we are no longer covered by dense hairs"
- "Yes, they do. Dogs have 2 types of sweat glands. The first type is called merocrine glands. These are located in the foot pads of dogs (and cats) and function to help cool the animal. The second type is called apocrine glands. These are located on most of the rest of the dog (and cat) but they do not function to cool the animal. Their purpose is to release pheromones."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_would.....d_to_rump_area
"A dog's tongue is an integral part of its cooling system. They inhale cool air and expel hot. They perspire primarily through their tongue and a minimal amount through their paw pads and skin pores. The result is slobbering and panting hot dogs!" yaay
ok, but what about the old phrase "sweat like a dog" or "sweat like a pig"? Seriously! It could be largely because of those phrases that I second-guessed the notion that animals don't sweat. Because, really. If a saying goes "sweat like a pig" that that's clear proof that pigs sweat, right??
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_pe....._don%27t_sweat
"Actually, dogs do technically sweat--but only out of their pads on their paws. However, I think the expression is actually or originally "sweat like a horse." People may say "like a dog" because they're mixing the animals up because of other expressions like "dog tired," etc., where people have come to feel that the word "dog" just means "very much." I believe the expression is "work like a dog" rather than "sweat like a dog"."
As for pigs, pigs don't sweat and have to roll in the mud to keep cool.
More:
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2005/05/2.....2600351700.htm "In cats, rats and mice they are confined to the soles of the feet. In rabbits, they are around the lips; in bats on the sides of the head; in cattle on the muzzle; in hippo on the pinnae. Hippos and giant kangaroos have red sweat. Birds resort to panting, losing water from air sacs. Dogs also adopt panting. Their tongue has rich blood supply from where water is evaporated." By the way, apparently cattle and horses have different sweat biology. Make note of that! Also "Though sweat glands are present in all mammals, few especially those belonging to the dog family, small ungulates such as sheep, goat and small gazelles cool primarily by a second method of panting because of the fewer number of sweat glands. Third method of salivation and licking is common in Australian marsupials including large kangaroos and some rodents."
So, in conclusion, it seems it can really depend on what specific animal it is, there's no general answer. We can always type in "do ____ sweat" in google to find out for specific animals.
Generally we do know mammals have sweatglands, but depending on the animal they may not actually "sweat like humans do".
my perspective:
I think this opens up liberty as to whether or not anthros would sweat IF they are mammal-based, because if a dog does not sweat but has sweat glands, then an anthro dog might as well sweat like a human since it's a human-styled mammal - a cross between an animal with sweat glands and an animal with sweat glands that actually sweats. So you have a choice, pretty much.
Scalies and avians, on the other hand, might not sweat since they aren't mammal-based to begin with. But, then I realize, virtually all anthros have mammal features. Namely breasts. (and also other things, if you know what I've just read about birds) So on that count, perhaps ALL anthros are mammal and thus must have sweat glands, if all mammals have sweat glands. Though that still leaves open the choice of whether or not the anthro actually sweats like a human.
Lastly, I note that even if anthros sweat, perhaps the sweat would not visible because of fur. Rather than sweat rolling dramatically down flesh, the fur would simply become sweaty. Your thoughts?
p.s: Also wow, did I just say that all anthros are mammal. That's quite a claim. Is anyone going to contest this? ("my character is not a mammal" etc)
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/600349/
Very comprehensive discussion, and, among the replies one FA user introducing the idea that animals don't necessarily sweat.
But, wtf? Animals don't sweat? To me, this was a BOMBSHELL.
Because, as is the very subject of discussion, if animals don't sweat, would that mean anthros don't sweat either?
at some point I realized, that I haven't looked into the subject any more since then, despite actually considering not drawing sweat and even re-evaluating the use of sweat as an emotive device. (see also: blushing through fur)
So why not find out?? To google it was.
Do animals sweat.
wikipedia: "Mammals are a class of vertebrate animals whose females are characterized by the possession of mammary glands while both males and females are characterized by sweat glands, hair, three middle ear bones used in hearing, and a neocortex region in the brain."
"Perspiration (also called sweating or sometimes transpiration) is the production of a fluid, consisting primarily of water as well as various dissolved solids (chiefly chlorides), that is excreted by the sweat glands in the skin of mammals."
ok, so I take it that only mammals have sweat glands. (but apparently this does not necessarily mean that they are used to the extent of humans, and/or if the the animal has as many sweat glands as a human)
"Animals with few sweat glands, such as dogs, accomplish similar temperature regulation results by panting, which evaporates water from the moist lining of the oral cavity and pharynx. Primates and horses have armpits that sweat like those of humans."
Ok so we have dogs, which don't sweat like humans and rely on panting, and horses, which do sweat like humans but only in specific parts of their body.
One user on answers.yahoo.com says that horses sweat from all over their body, he/she may be wrong but I would believe it because when riding a horse at one time when I was a kid, my jeans got horse sweat on them.
more user posts, some of which reveal that apparently footpads sweat. Any of these might be accurate.
- "Just like any mammal they have sweat glands and sweat to cool themselves down in the summer. However the effect isn't as good as with humans as it's more difficult for the sweat to be evaporated away from their body due to all the fur. This is the case with warm blooded mammals."
- "A cat sweats through its feet mainly unless over heated then they will open mouth pant."
- "Yes but only through certain parts of their bodies. For example, the pads on a dogs feet."
- "yes animals sweat but some animals sweat glands are not in the obvious places such as foot pads"
- "Most animals can't sweat the way we do, we adapted that ability because we are no longer covered by dense hairs"
- "Yes, they do. Dogs have 2 types of sweat glands. The first type is called merocrine glands. These are located in the foot pads of dogs (and cats) and function to help cool the animal. The second type is called apocrine glands. These are located on most of the rest of the dog (and cat) but they do not function to cool the animal. Their purpose is to release pheromones."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_would.....d_to_rump_area
"A dog's tongue is an integral part of its cooling system. They inhale cool air and expel hot. They perspire primarily through their tongue and a minimal amount through their paw pads and skin pores. The result is slobbering and panting hot dogs!" yaay
ok, but what about the old phrase "sweat like a dog" or "sweat like a pig"? Seriously! It could be largely because of those phrases that I second-guessed the notion that animals don't sweat. Because, really. If a saying goes "sweat like a pig" that that's clear proof that pigs sweat, right??
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_pe....._don%27t_sweat
"Actually, dogs do technically sweat--but only out of their pads on their paws. However, I think the expression is actually or originally "sweat like a horse." People may say "like a dog" because they're mixing the animals up because of other expressions like "dog tired," etc., where people have come to feel that the word "dog" just means "very much." I believe the expression is "work like a dog" rather than "sweat like a dog"."
As for pigs, pigs don't sweat and have to roll in the mud to keep cool.
More:
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2005/05/2.....2600351700.htm "In cats, rats and mice they are confined to the soles of the feet. In rabbits, they are around the lips; in bats on the sides of the head; in cattle on the muzzle; in hippo on the pinnae. Hippos and giant kangaroos have red sweat. Birds resort to panting, losing water from air sacs. Dogs also adopt panting. Their tongue has rich blood supply from where water is evaporated." By the way, apparently cattle and horses have different sweat biology. Make note of that! Also "Though sweat glands are present in all mammals, few especially those belonging to the dog family, small ungulates such as sheep, goat and small gazelles cool primarily by a second method of panting because of the fewer number of sweat glands. Third method of salivation and licking is common in Australian marsupials including large kangaroos and some rodents."
So, in conclusion, it seems it can really depend on what specific animal it is, there's no general answer. We can always type in "do ____ sweat" in google to find out for specific animals.
Generally we do know mammals have sweatglands, but depending on the animal they may not actually "sweat like humans do".
my perspective:
I think this opens up liberty as to whether or not anthros would sweat IF they are mammal-based, because if a dog does not sweat but has sweat glands, then an anthro dog might as well sweat like a human since it's a human-styled mammal - a cross between an animal with sweat glands and an animal with sweat glands that actually sweats. So you have a choice, pretty much.
Scalies and avians, on the other hand, might not sweat since they aren't mammal-based to begin with. But, then I realize, virtually all anthros have mammal features. Namely breasts. (and also other things, if you know what I've just read about birds) So on that count, perhaps ALL anthros are mammal and thus must have sweat glands, if all mammals have sweat glands. Though that still leaves open the choice of whether or not the anthro actually sweats like a human.
Lastly, I note that even if anthros sweat, perhaps the sweat would not visible because of fur. Rather than sweat rolling dramatically down flesh, the fur would simply become sweaty. Your thoughts?
p.s: Also wow, did I just say that all anthros are mammal. That's quite a claim. Is anyone going to contest this? ("my character is not a mammal" etc)
genetically speaking, if a chimera (meaning hybrid for those whom don't know:3) were bred from a human and an animal, (Its been done with animal-animal) (well *cough* erm also technically its also been done with human-bovine as well...but erm...yeah...nother story nother timeX3)
anyways...with genetic sampling pretty much anything that is wanted can be kept and anything that is unwanted can be ommited. (this is of course within the ideal situation and is "theoretically" possible in nearly all situations) problem is that varying factors sometimes botch things up.
So say you wanted to create a fox/wolf/human chimera.
well the thing is that overlapping traits cannot be combined. (within reason.)
you can't have a strictly wolf paw, and at the same time have that same paw be strictly fox. what you can have is a "morph" (non-technical term hereX3) a combination of both...not quite fox/not quite wolf...
thats how it pretty much works. (well thats the simple explanationX3)
So what this means is that if you want your critter to have sweat glands, yes that is perfectly possible and within true reason in genetic science.
Pretty much its a pick and choose...er... well we're not that far, but more close than you think?
now furthermore pushing genetic science aside.
Think about it. your a human. (I thinkX3) anyways you most likely have hair.
so the existence of hair (or fur) doesn't really mean anything as far as sweat glands. Think of the main regions of the human body where the most prominent sweat glands are. There is hair there.
So now to address the "what would sweat on fur look like" question.
think about it. If I've been outside working in the hot sun, I'm going to sweat. So the hair on my head will become sweat drenched. (ok this is getting gross now but anywaysXD) so I don't see droplets running down the fur...(perhaps on areas where the skin is exposed, pads nose etc) otherwise the fur would just be moist to wet depending.
Pretty much if it were that they were to be in the "drenched" situation,
think of what a dog looks like after a bath!!!!X3
Hope that helps a bit:3
Either way, anthros are fun things we make up to draw and play with, so in the end it all comes up to what the individual says about their character. x3
same thing about breasts on a dragon.
Breasts on a dragon, I think are ok, so long as they have nipples.
Also, mammaries are what strictly defines mammals, so mammaries on a reptile somewhat break that idea.
It says "nearly all mammals are warm-blooded"
But wait can an an anthro reptile legitimately not be mammal? And if so, what aspects of anatomy need to be adhered to. (namely no bewbs, and completely different sexual anatomy, and what else) I guess it's easier to just imagine a reptile walking on two legs, that has gained human-intelligence and the ability to speak but is in every other way (or in every way) a true reptile?
Perhaps what I really meant to say is that furry characters are typically mammal or they are mammal 99% of the time, I suppose "realistic" species could have been made, in other words anthros created with strong intention for purposes other than fanservice..?
Fanservice isn't bad, but consistency shouldn't fall victim to it...
Sure I guess it comes with the territory - That is, if you draw a furry you might need to know anything about that animal. But "that" aspect of any animal is probably the most difficult to find info/pics for.
Though now I have to wonder if that's an excuse. What would it be to design a furry race using only what one doesn't know as the basis?? Maybe, maybe not...
Inaccurate is certainly more forgivable than outright wrong. Certain memes are more persistent than they should be. You'll frequently see drawings of hermaphroditic stripped hyenas, while it's only the spotted hyena that displays that specific trait of anatomy. People stick canine knots on all kinds of penises of various species. Inaccurate sure, but at least they tried...
Of course there is this second route, you just drop the whole "believable anatomy" thing and use your Licentia Artistica to draw whatever you like however you like, you just need to put your foot firmly against any "corectness", no feeble attempts, this is fantasy and nothing else - no physiology, no anatomy, no evolution, no physics, just art.
And as for a purely fantastic race... that's an interesting idea too. Not based on lack of knowledge about a real species, but something created from a scratch. Just look what a blast the Sergals are.
As for something like the hyena example. I don't know anything about them, but if the two species of hyena are similar enough, it seems largely incidental to me that one has hermaphrodites and the other doesn't, in which case it's not necessarily less realistic to portray either species that way.
So what's the deal with Sergals? To think that a fan-made species could become as popular as it is.
It's hard to pinpoint what caused the wild success of sergals (if it was easy, everyone would be doing it), but they are entirely made up species with made up anatomy, physiology, culture and society. I guess the secret is the same as a secret to a good story: it doesn't have to be true to be good. If the idea is original enough, has the right feel to it, is interesting, good and so on, you don't need accuracy. Only if you copy the Nature (...or whatever), you need to copy it accurately, or the result seems a poor work.
Similar to the Uncanny Valley: if you create moving models of humans, either create them so well they aren't distinguishable or so weird (toony, grotesque, stylized) that one can see they aren't humans at once. If you get almost-but-not-quite there, you get creepy, ugly, repulsive creatures that seem like horrible dolls.
So, for best results either be very accurate, or very inaccurate. The middle ground sucks.
Well there's also the issue of physics, that can always be inaccurate (Center of balance, etc, can the creature realistically stand on its own) unless the physics are made up too..
Anyway I might consider anthros made-up creatures essentially, so they don't have to adhere to the base animal too strongly. My characters might fall in this category. However I do appreciate any advice!
I think your going to be a fantastic fur artist, your going beyond just drawing. Your thinking
I know dogs do sweat. My Dal's pads of he feet show footprints everytime, on concrete, or at the vet's office (painted concrete floors).
Horses sweat like humans. IE: they get wet, and they're fur does too. So I'd see a anthro horse getting wet and sticky (get your minds out of the gutters, readers ;).
I'm not sure about how deer do. I know they pant at times.
Birds pant as well. Hmm...what else?
Anyway, that's my $.22 (.02 for inflation)
- Shado
- Shado