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Joker movie review
6 years ago
General
Well.
I saw Joker and...you ever see something that's good in every possible way, but the soul of the thing is kinda rotted out? This movie was well acted, had perfectly consistent tone, beautifully choreographed, and even well written, but I left the theater feeling kind of gross, like someone just rolled me in really slimy garbage.
Do I think the movie merits the controversy around it? Not really. It is basically an incel's dream come true in some ways, but it doesn't go out of its way to say that any actions in the film are good or bad. You don't really root for the main character, you just kind of watch him. Mostly the film takes a giant steaming dump on anyone suffering with any kind of mental illness, but specifically depression, schizophrenia/any illness which causes hallucinations, anyone with an uncontrollable physical tic, people who were abused as children, the poor in general, the suicidal, and anyone who takes medication to relieve symptoms of mental distress. I can't say if any of that was intentional or not; the film really banks on stereotypes of mental illness from the 1960s but it leans so hard into those negative stereotypes that it's pretty uncomfortable to watch if you live with any of the stuff depicted.
Should you watch it? I dunno. If you want to. I don't recommend taking your kids to see it though. I'm not mad at this movie and I don't want my money back, but I wouldn't ever want to see it again myself. I should caution that the film depicts violence more realistically than any movie I've seen before and it's unsettling. If you're sensitive to that or if you just don't want to be depressed today, I'd give this movie a pass. It is an intentionally joyless film.
The Good
- sets and costuming
- the acting (not just the lead, everyone was really good)
- consistent tone (bleak and grim all the way through)
- Rich People Suck™ is a pretty legit message
The Bad
- too bad the movie doesn't really do anything with that
- if you have any kind of mental illness/take medication/have suffered abuse, prepare to be pooped on for two hours
- how many cliched negative stereotypes about mental illness can one movie lean into? All of them? All of them. And how! 8D
SPOILERS TIME!!!
The big bummer about the mental illness stereotyping is that it's acted well, it's just almost entirely a lie and this movie feels like it's going out of its way to shove understanding of these conditions back into the 19th century. If Gotham were portrayed in a less modern light, that would be more understandable, but it is absolutely a modern city. The problems are all blamed on the rich and, well, that's fair. If Bruce Wayne was blonde and orange this movie would feel even more on the nose with that topic. >_>
The one saving grace to the whole story is the heavy implication at the end that it was all in Joker's head. But he's still in a psych ward at that point, so... The fact that he would be in his 50s or 60s by the time Batman came around is also something of an indicator that it's one of the many fake stories that could be a Joker origin but, like The Killing Game, probably isn't. (Btw, if you want a Joker origin story that's...not this...give The Killing Game a read. Yeah, it kinda fridges Barbara Gordon, but overall it's a good story and it contrasts the choices people make when put through the same terrible circumstances very well.)
On a personal level, I never liked the idea of Joker having any mental illness beyond narcissism (which also is not strictly a negative thing for those who have it). Look, I've been in the mental ward myself. Someone who could bring a city to its knees ain't comin' out of there, trust me. It's just out of character in general and giving someone like this multiple illnesses and traumas is why it feels like the movie is crapping on a huge swath of humanity that is, in reality, pretty harmless. The film likes to imply that Joker doesn't have a choice in his actions and that's...not good. Or very consistent to the classy, clever clown that is pretty much more popular than Batman himself.
That's my thoughts on Joker. It's not bad in the fun way, but not good in a fun way. Either somebody didn't think through the message they were sending or is intentionally targeting a group of people that currently have minimal rights as it is and suffer tremendous abuse already. It's a beautiful, delicious apple that you just took a bite out of, swallowed that bite, and then notice only half of the worm that was in there is left.
I think I need to watch HBO's Chernobyl again to get the taste of this off my brain. At least that's depressing for a reason and I didn't feel like I needed a bath after.
I saw Joker and...you ever see something that's good in every possible way, but the soul of the thing is kinda rotted out? This movie was well acted, had perfectly consistent tone, beautifully choreographed, and even well written, but I left the theater feeling kind of gross, like someone just rolled me in really slimy garbage.
Do I think the movie merits the controversy around it? Not really. It is basically an incel's dream come true in some ways, but it doesn't go out of its way to say that any actions in the film are good or bad. You don't really root for the main character, you just kind of watch him. Mostly the film takes a giant steaming dump on anyone suffering with any kind of mental illness, but specifically depression, schizophrenia/any illness which causes hallucinations, anyone with an uncontrollable physical tic, people who were abused as children, the poor in general, the suicidal, and anyone who takes medication to relieve symptoms of mental distress. I can't say if any of that was intentional or not; the film really banks on stereotypes of mental illness from the 1960s but it leans so hard into those negative stereotypes that it's pretty uncomfortable to watch if you live with any of the stuff depicted.
Should you watch it? I dunno. If you want to. I don't recommend taking your kids to see it though. I'm not mad at this movie and I don't want my money back, but I wouldn't ever want to see it again myself. I should caution that the film depicts violence more realistically than any movie I've seen before and it's unsettling. If you're sensitive to that or if you just don't want to be depressed today, I'd give this movie a pass. It is an intentionally joyless film.
The Good
- sets and costuming
- the acting (not just the lead, everyone was really good)
- consistent tone (bleak and grim all the way through)
- Rich People Suck™ is a pretty legit message
The Bad
- too bad the movie doesn't really do anything with that
- if you have any kind of mental illness/take medication/have suffered abuse, prepare to be pooped on for two hours
- how many cliched negative stereotypes about mental illness can one movie lean into? All of them? All of them. And how! 8D
SPOILERS TIME!!!
The big bummer about the mental illness stereotyping is that it's acted well, it's just almost entirely a lie and this movie feels like it's going out of its way to shove understanding of these conditions back into the 19th century. If Gotham were portrayed in a less modern light, that would be more understandable, but it is absolutely a modern city. The problems are all blamed on the rich and, well, that's fair. If Bruce Wayne was blonde and orange this movie would feel even more on the nose with that topic. >_>
The one saving grace to the whole story is the heavy implication at the end that it was all in Joker's head. But he's still in a psych ward at that point, so... The fact that he would be in his 50s or 60s by the time Batman came around is also something of an indicator that it's one of the many fake stories that could be a Joker origin but, like The Killing Game, probably isn't. (Btw, if you want a Joker origin story that's...not this...give The Killing Game a read. Yeah, it kinda fridges Barbara Gordon, but overall it's a good story and it contrasts the choices people make when put through the same terrible circumstances very well.)
On a personal level, I never liked the idea of Joker having any mental illness beyond narcissism (which also is not strictly a negative thing for those who have it). Look, I've been in the mental ward myself. Someone who could bring a city to its knees ain't comin' out of there, trust me. It's just out of character in general and giving someone like this multiple illnesses and traumas is why it feels like the movie is crapping on a huge swath of humanity that is, in reality, pretty harmless. The film likes to imply that Joker doesn't have a choice in his actions and that's...not good. Or very consistent to the classy, clever clown that is pretty much more popular than Batman himself.
That's my thoughts on Joker. It's not bad in the fun way, but not good in a fun way. Either somebody didn't think through the message they were sending or is intentionally targeting a group of people that currently have minimal rights as it is and suffer tremendous abuse already. It's a beautiful, delicious apple that you just took a bite out of, swallowed that bite, and then notice only half of the worm that was in there is left.
I think I need to watch HBO's Chernobyl again to get the taste of this off my brain. At least that's depressing for a reason and I didn't feel like I needed a bath after.
Personally, I've been waiting to see what reviewers and mutuals had to say about the movie before I really decided if it was worth my time and my money to see. I'm not the kind of person to go out to a movie theatre unless its something I absolutely have to go see. Namely, the past two movies I have done so to do is Shape of Water and Hidden Figures.
I've heard artistically that the movie is a success. The story, pacing, and acting is all on par for what qualifies as a good movie nowadays, and the snippets and bit of the movie I have seen inclined me to believe that.
Do you think, perhaps, this movie would have done better if it were released at a different time? Like, perhaps more in the future? I'm curious of your take on that. Like, if the current climate were different, would the movie have hit those same notes and feelings that you got from it?
Mind you, I'm also coming from a place of not quite knowing the Joker in story. So, I may not be as inclined to know every aspect about them or their character and mannerisms. This would all mostly be 'sort of new' for me.
Personally, I think this movie was always going to feel the way it does to me. The stuff with the city riots and Rich People Suck™ are honestly sort of background things compared to the overarching, constant dumping on mental illness. From what little I've seen of reviews and others' thoughts, it seems I may have a more personal take on the mental illness aspects than most. It kinda just gets a lot of things wrong and, if you know anything about the themes IRL, the way things pan out just doesn't make sense.
I'm not too well versed in the character of the Joker myself, really. XD I've only read The Killing Joke, watched some of the (awesome) animated series from the 90s, and thoroughly enjoyed The Dark Knight. Someone I used to know told me about the character in general having no official origin story and that makes sense. He's just not the kind of character you could pin down so easily. This incarnation doesn't feel like it fits him, though.
Mostly, I just love the take that is a movie for all monster lovers out there, and allowing us to wave our freak flag. Really cute, and touching at moments with certain themes. It also doesn't skip a beat in announcing that the movie has sexual tones from the very beginning.
Hidden Figures is also pretty great. Hits some pretty powerful notes and the actors and actresses I just absolutely adore. It is up their as one of my favourites.
If I wasn't such a coward, I'd probably watch the IT movies. I'm just a wimp with scary movies. So I'll leave it to things like Kill Count or Ending Explained for me to enjoy it without the horror elements getting to me.
Ah, okay. That is a bummer.
I've dealt a lot with mental illness and well being in my life, especially what it is like in mental institutions or psych wards.
That is why I wanted to hear more of your take on it. I think your experience might be more similar to how mine would be. I wouldn't want to watch something that would just disappoint me. Thank you for your insight!
Okay, Hidden Figures looks like something I absolutely want to see. :)
I didn't find IT particularly scary, but I've come to realize that I have such intense nightmares and I've seen so much true crime stuff that of course I wouldn't by this point. XD I felt like it was The Goonies but with adults. The kid deaths made me sad. Years ago I wasn't able to watch stuff like this, though, so I definitely get it. :)
Yeah, if you've been through the system, this movie is going to bug you. It's such a downer all the way through and it's frustrating to a) see the Joker's illness(?) taken care of properly, b) see it treated by the filmmakers with so little consideration of the real world people living this way, and c) more or less saying "welp, that's just how it is" to brush it all aside. The "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" style ward bothered me, too. They only let you run that loose if you're in the seniors' ward and the scrubs are blue, dammit! XD The whole "totally modern setting, 1960s hospital" aesthetic frustrates me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-YPZ1_h7gM