I agree with this also reform is needed however unions will try to stop it

Thanks. And yeah, unfortunately it fraternal/sororital mentality of law enforcement is a double edged sword all too often blinding officers from recognizing when they need to take a firm hand with their problematic members.

That is sadly true as well I mostly blame the unions

agreed. agreed. and agreed.

Thanks, thanks and thanks.

Aye, ye got that right, old friend. Personally, my opinion is that whoever riots, loots, vandalizes etc should be identified and THEIR homes, livelihoods, etc be vandalized in turn. Let's see how long vandalism lasts...

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Thanks. Yeah, it's oh so tempting to give them a taste of their own medicine.

Who has BLM actually helped at this point? They seem to just hide in the shadows until a white guy kills a black guy and automatically assume it must be because of his race then cause as much trouble as possible while getting fat stacks from donations which I highly doubt that a single penny goes back to the black community as a whole.

Amen to that.

Can't blame the entire movement on the actions of a few

Why not, doesn't seem to stop a lot of people from accusing all Christians of being homophobic, blaming all conservatives and centerists for Trump being elected (regardless of who they voted for), just to name a couple examples.

Ok, to be fair, that's not an invalid philosophy; hell I largely subscribe to it myself. But in the particular cases of BLM and Antifa, I dont think it applies. They have too much history of direct association with this sort of behavior and neither doing nor saying anything to discourage it.

I think you need to zoom out a little bit. Look at a timeline of how people have protested and responded. Ferguson and Baltimore happened under a Black President, Attorney General, and head of Homeland Security, so the peaceful way of protesting of Black Faces In High Places didn't work. After that, we thought we could do things peacefully, but it didn't work. Kaepernick knelt to protest police brutality. Nothing happened and his career was ruined. NBA players wore "I Can't Breathe" shirts before a game. Nothing happened.

The response to George Floyd *hasn't* been rioting and looting; it's been protesting. Things get violent because the cops show up to *those* and start gassing people. And don't act like it's *only* the rioters who are assaulting and killing people. We have 2+ videos of the cops toppling a 75-year old man. Despite this, the official report they released said that he "tripped." We know he didn't, we have proof that he didn't; what sorts of things are the cops covering up even if they lie in the face of having proof? Unlike Ferguson and Baltimore though, now people know to bring cameras, and they have:
https://imgur.com/gallery/o4foNF6
https://imgur.com/gallery/Ez0EdpA
https://imgur.com/gallery/K9r0qTP
How do you commit these acts, then expect things to *not* get violent?

Let's also talk about kettling, something protestors have no means of doing: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8000641.stm
This happened in Boston. You confine people (who may not have even been involved) to a park or some square, decide a curfew starts in five minutes, then hey, everyone in the park is breaking the law and violence is totally okay.

As to who BLM actually helps, you obviously haven't bothered to look up what they do when events like these aren't popping off. At least in my chapter, they were distributing information and equipment to fight COVID and not just that, getting a moratorium signed that prevents evictions by landlords for people and businesses during the pandemic.

I detest violence. But I have to ask, what alternatives are left that we haven't already tried?

Well, that's the thing- marching and "getting the word out" campaigns are only part of peaceful protests. Activists had the people's attention, but then proceeded to do nothing with it. When people see Kaepernick, they don't see someone protesting police brutality or racism, they see a spoiled millionaire athlete whose own experience does not mirror the average American, far less the average African American. The same with NBA stars and, well, most celebrities that like to virtue signal and then do nothing of value about the causes they claim to support.

The peaceful movements that do make change happen require more than just obstructing traffic, marching down a street, and making noise. It requires voting, it requires boycotts, it requires a lot of different things. The problem, from where I'm standing, is that people in big cities, where the vast majority of these problems are occurring, keep voting in the same people that talk a big game but make no effort to change anything, because they've grown complacent. Because they have a certain letter next to their name on the ballot, they will get voted in again, and again, and again.

And the problem is, there's been loads of violence that has no police presence- especially in the first week of the riots. People have died, and they seem to have been killed by people associated with the protesters. Store owners are beat senseless and left to bleed in the streets because they tried to protect their property.

Does that justify the tactics the police have been using? Absolutely not. The country has a very real problem of brutality and a lack of accountability from some of the biggest police departments and their unions. I've done my part to end that; I support the bans on chokeholds and tear gas, and I really want to see Police Unions heavily de-powered and qualified immunity either gutted entirely or severely altered. And the good news is, state governments are beginning to act- New York, Colorado, and a few others have already pushed through reforms addressing these issues- but I can guarantee it's not because of the rioters and the looters that they decided to act.

What he said.^^^

"It requires voting-" The way our democracy operates is between two parties - The Overtly Use Force To Disproportionately Punish Minorities Party vs. The Covertly Use Force To Disproportionately Punish Minorities Party. Did you miss the part where I said that we had Black people in three of the highest offices and nothing still happened?

"It requires boycotting-" what, boycott the cops? Sure. That's where the phrase "defund the police" comes from, but people like you two don't seem to care much about that idea beyond the words.

There are so many people proposing ways of solving the problem. You all just throw up your arms and say, "well, I guess both sides need some accountability," end it there, then act surprised when this whole scene erupts, again, a year or so from now because of it.

Well, no, that's what I'm saying- one party has the vast control over our cities, and has for several, several decades. They have grown complacent, especially since they take the black vote for granted. Challenging that easy rule would probably galvanize them.

Are you familiar with the work of the Populists, or the Progressive Party? Third parties have never truly managed to break the mold of Democrats or Republicans, it's true, but the end of the Gilded Age and throughout the early 20th Century, huge gains for workers' rights were made precisely because of these third parties- they never won a presidency, but they took a big enough bite out of the two main parties' voting base that they acted fast to fix that, and pushed through reform. Black Lives Matter is sitting on a war chest that would shame Croesus right now, with donations from celebrities, corporations, and the twitterati pouring in. BLM is sorely decentralized and lacking in leadership and organization. It has 16 chapters, all of which are saying different things when it comes directly to what the end goal and policy changes wanted are. Reform the Police? Abolition of Police? Defunding the Police? Defunding but not really because they realize how bad the optics are on that? People are hearing different things from different parts of the movement. If you organized into a political party and established a comprehensive policy, you could put forth your own candidates, and, with the goodwill from the black community, you would have a very easy time of winning seats in city councils. With that leverage, you would be much more likely to see the reforms people can actually get behind and see real change.

You asked what was left if not violence, and this is one possible route- I probably don't agree with a lot of your politics, but no one wants to see people getting needlessly killed by the police. If you can translate that into votes, then God bless you. At the end of the day, when we're talking about effecting change in a democratic system, there is always a better way than violence.

Yeah, I don't buy this utter lack of culpability and attempt to rationalize what's been happening. Just flat out no, I don't buy a word of it.

why

Because the line's gotta be drawn somewhere.

I blame the unions

It's possible, I honestly can't say.

Thank you for this. Truly.

You said what I was not able to get out properly, and for that I am grateful. 💜💜💜

Glad to be of help.

MikeFang Except for the part where you said: "I'm sure his word will carry a lot more weight than my stupid white ass ever could", all I can say is: Yes, thank you! I'm glad that someone decided to speak up about this.

Through this journal, you've said what I've always wanted to, but just couldn't find the right words to express it.

On that one particular quote, I have to ask: What does your skin color have to do with your intelligence or whether you can speak on any topic or not...or anything, for that matter?

Why does that even matter? Why even mention it / bring it up?

By all means, speak your mind. Tell the truth. Don't let other people try to tell you what to think or say.

You're NOT stupid, regardless of what color of skin you have. Your post shows more character than anyone who will try to tell you, otherwise.

It also doesn't make you a lesser person for saying what you're saying.

You did very well with this, I'd say.

Also, it's good to see that there are some members of the furry community who are willing to sit down and talk about an issue like this one, in a civilized manner... without letting it devolve into a screaming match full of name-calling and other nonsense.

I certainly appreciate the support. You're right, ethnicity/race shouldn't matter; empathy for the human condition should apply here. Unfortunately, it's been my observation that there are many among the vocal people in these issues who do make it matter. They claim a white person can't understand the difficulties and pressures facing a PoC, that "white privilege" protects white people from prejudice, and so on, so whenever someone like me, whose white enough to inspire Weird Al Yankovic songs, speaks to the subject of bigotry and it's not to prostrate oneself before minorities, the reaction tends to be "what would YOU know about bigotry and prejudice?"

I am grateful that you said this. There is more than 'HURR DURR POLICE BAD/GOOD'.

Honestly, I am surprised tha there are more furries that do not just go blacksgoodcopsbad and call a day.

(from a Latino)