They get popular from two things:

1) They get themselves drawn by so many famous people that everyone assumes they have connections.. including the famous artists. Who then consider them above the rest of us rif-raf and start associating with them. So then.. they DO have connections.

2) They're whores. Art whores. Attention whores. And of course, just plain whores. The fandom loves someone who will try to fuck anything that moves.

I myself used to be a bit of an attention whore, but I matured out of that. I also used to be a real slut on furcadia, but I never seem to get in the mood before... I have never, however, been an art whore. Don't really know many artists, and I'd rather not disrespect the ones I do know by begging for free stuff. ;P

1) Agred there, but honestly, in th end who cares? Reealy there just amuse for the artest. If anythign w should be congratulating the artiest for making them look good and using them to further there own skill, not making celberties out of the subject.

2) I.... Can't say ANYTHING to contest about that. ANd that's a first. ;)

I think you hit it when you said to stroke thier own egos. They want to keep themselves in the spotlight so nobody forgets them. The reason people let these famous ones walk all over them is that people in general don't think for themselves, they need some kind of entertainment so they don't have to think.

I'm sorry. I enjoy using the upper levls of my mind often, at that. I sometimes think I think to much. I should think on it... Shoot.

The problem is that monster called 'prestige'. "I know X and Y and Z, and they all thought so much of me to draw my fursona next to theirs! Muahaha!"
My usual response is, "Okay, but what have YOU done for me LATELY." We put up with them, however, because we're too afraid of pissing off some artist whose work we like.
This is one of the reasons that I don't have too many pictures of Treyn. I'm not an artist. I'm really not. If I needed to make money off of my art, I'd have people PAYING me not to draw. But, on the other paw, I write. Sure, I don't show everything that I write, but I do write. And I include my friend's characters in the stories because I want to have fun with it, when I want to have fun with it. When I don't, guess what. I don't!
What you're complaining about is the market of 'pull' rather than the market of ability.

I don't be live it's pull. Cause honestly, when you talk too, should you be so hopnored as to talk to these folks, cause lord knows there better then you, thre not the type of peron that you would really want to know, in all truthfulness.

I will agre withteh prestig thing. But really can you say that it is them thinking of you enough to draw you, or you willing to '*clears throat* Degrade yourself nough that thy ventuly give in?

That's the whole point of prestige tho. It's completely un-earned respect, appearing as earned. None of the art whores you're talking about are going to like you because you're calling it like it is.

*smirks* You make it sound like I'm TRYING to be liked. ;)

Nope. Just observing things as I see them. You think that I want to be liked, when I wrote "300 - You probably don't deserve to see it" as my original tag line for the review? lol I'm happy that there's someone besides me who's standing up and saying, "Hey, dirtbag. Grow an ego and stop whoring yourself out."

I've been saying that for years. ;) To artiest and art followers alike. I supos cause I'm comfortable with me, I can stand up for these peple that seem to meek or to slefcentered to do it for themselfs.

A philosophical point more than anything else, but I would challenge your use of the word 'self centered' regarding that. A self-centered person has no need for anyone else's approval or regard. Only one without a sense of self has to rely on other's estimate of himself.

Perhaps, but to make that sence of worth in themselfs some heed to rach beyond themselfs into others. A thought process that I only matter as longas other think I matter. From that, can spawn selfcenterness, as when one is established, they no longer need that regard, as they know they have or had it. A odd circle to the same ends.

Not to sure that I would agree with that. I'm one of the most selfish people on the planet (self-centered, consumed with my own interests) and I've never wanted or needed anyone else's approval. Hell, some times if you approved of it when I told you my plan, I thought about doing just the opposite. Then, of course, I realized that you were simply recognizing my genius anyway, so it was alright.

Honestly, I'm very guilty of something CrashFu said. I am probably the biggest whore on here... *sighs* I'm sorry.

And I agree, there are plenty out there who are like that... just... remind me to never become like them if I ever get to be famous on here...

It's easy enough to remind. Just not alway easy to spot. nless your delibratly trying to be spotd for it.

Ye could say i'm the beginnings of such a whore : though yeah, you're absolutely right there and i don't have much to say back at about that.

My skills are limited to studying and surviving at university right now x,x Though my dream is one day to not rely on other artists but draw the so called "My character" exactly the way i see it, hahhah! xP

Though yeah, that seems to be the way the fandom rolls. If you're known, then you're almost always awarded with + coolness and + attention, which turns in to more + known and + watches and all that. +++++ if ya know what i mean :P

Keep at it when you can. I'm sure you'll b a good artiest in your own right.

I find it so sad that we in the fandom are judged by who w know. So if I were to say that I knew blankity blank and blanoby bonk, I would be more sought after? That's... Disgusting.

I talked about this with ma mate when he came up to visit, about the "social hierarchy" that we have in the fandom. To sum it up...

Don't judge people too harshly for being famous and non-artists. Many people want to be well-known, they want people to recognize their names for whatever reason, they want to feel like they make a difference or something. This rarely happens outside of the fandom because there are billions of people, but in a community with more like tens of thousands, it's more feasible. I don't judge them too harshly because I know I'd like to be well-known and drawn by people. Is it such a bad thing? Like the rest of life, being in art is a combination of hard work (stuff you pay for), relationships (people you're friends with) and dumb luck (running into somebody at a con when they don't have anything else to do, so they draw you up).

And say that you are drawn by a bunch of people, for whatever reasons. You can either put "your" pieces up and show them proudly, displaying your character and whatever situations your mind has come up with for them to be in, or you can just let them sit on your computer and not share any art. If nobody shared art of people's characters the fandom would be have pretty slim pickings for viewing material. So I say share it.

I don't like people walking all over others because they famous, that's totally uncool. But as for being famous (which is self-perpetuating, as many things are), that's what many people aspire to be and won't hide if they get it. Don't judge them too hard, they just want to be heard and liked.

I'll agree with heard and liked. Bt really you can do that by being a decent person. And many of these so call famouse ones, really, arn't.

They fall into that walking on people catogory. Which is uncool. Which is sorta contradictory.

You can be heard and liked if you're a decent person, but not by many people. If you'd rather have two hundred rather than two dozen people who have heard your name, or two thousand rather than two hundred, you can't just "be decent". Is it greedy and over the top? That's a matter of personal opinion.

Again, cool people being jerks is kinda annoying. But what I actually think is a bigger and more frustrating problem is not when members of the un-artistic furry masses become popular, it's when the artists do. If you have thousands of people who watch your art religiously, they care less about whether you're a nice guy or a complete asshole. They can shrug off the attitude and just say "Eh, I only care about his/her art". The artists interpret the support they get as "Hey, these people like me" when really it's "Hey, these people hate me but like my porn".

Nice point. I like that last one. I agree with you on it. Tho allot of artists need to remember that, and emember why they started drawing in the first place. Sorta fal back to there roots.

Who knows? Sometimes they are social creatures that make friends easily and have a personality that allows them to be very extroverted and recognizable. Others are just callous attention whores good at stirring controversy. If you want to be flexible, you could say the ability to become recognized is in itself a talent.

I dont belive that cause eally anyone could be reconginzed. Or ratehr should.

Social creatures generally come with ...HH cups :3?

I see your point. In some cases I’d agree (like my self .... ... even though in my circles, I’m more known for being the angry, disapproving type x3, still .. I hav sum fanarts from friends). But, from my experience, it’s been mostly because they have these ultra attractive characters. Now, I won’t knock somebody for liking the hot women, or men, but .. Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of otherwise perfectly nice, even interesting, people who are socially active go completely ignored because they’re normal looking x3

I feel bad that you know so many of those furs that are the "bad" versions of the famous furs because in my extensive experience with furs that get drawn constantly they are rather nice and either well off financially or are just friendly. I don't think there is a problem with furs getting to be famous and making galleries of other's art of their characters, it allows them to show off what a part of them looks like and give credit to the artists. And another reason and the main reason they are so popular is because we the "rif-raf" as someone earlier put it think they are very sexy and comment constantly on their work. Sergals, Kineta, Citras, Dobermans etc. We think they are all sexy so we make them famous.

-Balto Wolf

Ah, but then again, are we calling them themslfs sexy -or- are we calling the work that we are constatly bombarded with in images by said artiest they buz around sexy?

For me when I find a character that I really like I find it for multiple reasons, the art is good, the art is usually erotic in nature or has a significant erotic element (I like pron, though pron doesn't equal me always liking a specific character). And for me to really love/fanboy a character the character themselves (the human that plays them) has to be kind in themselves. I like a fair amount of fursonas and such that are unique and different, and like I said the pron element isn't 100% necessary, though it is nice. And I wouldn't use bombarded in reference to new art, I love seeing more art done every day.

-Balto Wolf

Alas, I would use bombardment. I've browed through FA some times. It get rather annoying deeing the same image posted 2 or three times once frrom the artiest and then again by the individual. (Points back to his previous journal)

I persnaly think that the porn element should not have much levrage in the matter. The charater should be appeling without porn, and if they need fame, should be such without the use of ereotisium. That's too easy.

I just personally like porn, but almost all of the characters that I love and have come to see as "famous" furs I love with or without an erotic element. Personally I like the fact that the comissioner has the ability to post an image done by an artist of their character on their page. I have found an amazing amount of relatively unknown artists by looking at images like that.

-Balto Wolf

it all goes back with the art, no one sees that art is art, it either has to be good or bad

I don't buy into that. I see art as art. I'm ntot scared to mention problems or pros in a picture I see. Every pictre that is crerated, every pice of creatisum, from audio too art, is regarded. One can't be expected to like everything, but one should be willing to have open mind about anything.

I HATE THEM TOO! I SWEAR I'VE BEEN MAD AND MAD AT SOME OF THEM AND I STILL HATE THEM FOR STEALING THE SHOW!!

Seriously, I cant seem to get a day's break without seeing one of them in at least 5 of my many daily submissions...

Welcome to th stat of the fandom now. Wher yo don't ned any passible tallent then a prity apperence to be made more importent then anyone else. :P

I have a few names in the head, and I certainly feel like sharing them out. Well whatever we can do for that. They are more popular than us hard workers that gain nothing, and that's because they're spoiled, whatever they did.

Heh.. Well I was going to sday n names, but Giving a poodle friend of mine did, I supose all bets are off.

I supose i's lowest common denominator.

Well not so mch that... But I forgot to include that sort of thing. Thank you. ;)

I find most individuals have a very tunnle vision sort of thinking. It's ony when you put the wall infront of the bullet train that they notice that thehave to stop and look around.

Fortunatly for me, I carry that wall where ever I go. ;)

*nods* I just try to be me. Like me for it, or hate me for it. In the end tho, at least I'm real, I think that ammases to allot of it.

And I'll agree with you. Grtanted, some of there attitudes stink, but remember, there only like that because you put them up on that pedistle.

I know someone like that, he used to be in an obscure furry chat where he manipulated and used everyone in his own way before finally getting out in to the "mainstream", where he took off in popularity.

He's always thrived off of attention but was a total emotional trainwreck, but he's always been unwittingly very good at manipulating people, and it gets him the attnetion he wants in sometimes overwhelming amounts. Now that he's popular though, furries look to him as an idol of sorts now, and emulate him all the time now, which is pretty fucked up because he's pretty fucked up.

(Some) people with no art talent get popular in the fandom by manipulating those tho do have art talent. It's unfortunate because those people usually become the most popular, and gain the most influence.

Which is wrong, because really they have no redeeming quaities, most times, other then said manipulation. And there not afraid to flaunt it. Which in turn, as you say, spoiles other people because they view this behaviouas sociably acceptable.

It is wrong, but they're too deep in to it to change at that point, that's what sucks about it. They're too popular by the time they're there to want to hear what they've done wrong, they think they're a god of sorts.

And thus spans the ego and the "oh, I've done nothign, but I can judge you", mindset.

Yeah. I've kept in touch with the guy I mentioned off and on, and I've begun commenting on how he's not as good a guy as he portrays himself, and all I've gotten is flak, avoidance and flat out lies. At some point I'm sure he'll just block me, because no matter how right I am, in the end he's not changing because he has no need to change, and anything he says in the fandom is gold so he feels what he's doing must be right.

This the same individual that you mentioned in your journal?

Yeah. I've seen it with a few people though, so I was speaking in general but using an example as well, off and on.

I thought so. Yah, I've seen it enough to make my belly crawl.

I have contemplated this very thing, and have my own opinion on the matter. My RL beau is one of these "famous" furs. He was long before I met him. I knew of him way before he ever paged me for a chat (Yea. I still reel over that.)

He'd been drawn by numerous "famous" artists, including no less a luminary than Doug Winger. And yes, he's the nicest, sweetest, most dear man I know. I'm a little biased, but... He's just a good person. Goes to college, works at a job, enjoys Dr. Who, and got me into it. Not all famous non-artists are jerks or talentless hacks and atention whores. Some folks just get lots of exposure.

Now some are just richer than G-d (As they say down south) and have got the gelt to make all the artists sit up and beg. Usually, they have an agenda, a deep need to be seen, and a chip on their shoulders the size of fucking Jupiter (cf. CigarSkunk.)

So, while you're not wholly wrong, there are folks who get drawn, but are really very nice and sweet and pleasant folks (cf. Kincade.) But more often, they utilize negative tactics (cf. Froyst.)

I did mention with an * that I know a few of these famous ones that are good people. I was not downing on all of them, jsut what apperes to be a majority.

Again, thanks for your insight as usual, you bring a nice even ground on situations.

How does anyone get famous? You see someone enough and eventually you learn to recognize them and then remembering their name and general information is easy so they are famous to you. However, I have always wondered how some of these people get so much artwork of themselves done, unless it is that they just have a lot of $ and then I suppose in this ecnocratic society it is only right that they be heralded as best.

Technically, the word you're looking for is "Plutocracy." Rule by the monied.

No, I am looking for Ecnocracy, rule by the economy.

Normaly it's either 1) Allot of kissing up. 2) Allot of scratch. 3) Annoy the HELL out of an artist till they buckle. 4) Buddy buddy.

One of those normaly can fall into credit. Oddly enough, I could lable a individual and artest for each one of these situations if I really wanted too.

I love getting my ego stroked, mmm. Oh wait. I guess it's common in any fandom. I originally started drawing (and eventually 3d stuff) for myself. I did it for years until I posted on the net. Getting recognized feels great though (especially from those I idolized). I rather be famous for what I do and what I am than just knowing the right people. Much more satisfying to me. Networking is part of life I guess. Sorta like leveling up. ^^~@~^^

All well and good. But you DO something to denote being noticed. You create, lie I do. I'm more or less talking about individuals that are know kust cause there known. Like someone being famous for have a certin name atached to them.

You want me to lie?!?. I know, I know it's a typo. Just pulling your tail. Trying to make a funny. You can put that down. No really... ack! *ducks and runs off* ^^~@~^^

Yeah, I guess the reason I'm only famous as a close-minded bastard is because unlike those art whores, my moral integrity and standards are NOT for sale for ANY price.

yeah I understand what what you talking about, and i hate people who think they are so great for no real reason. i mean some pople do earn it through work and a lot of time, but when someone comes up and does it like that *snap*, it just angers me so much.

Not long ago I had my first real run-in with one of them . . . fellow asks for my IM's. I'd seen him around for about a year, we'd talked on occasion, so I decide why not. He immediately begins ripping into a slightly similar character owned by someone who commissions me, completely ridiculing the person behind it, who he does't even know. I call him on it, he appologizes, and then asks me to "collab" with him, or to open up OC so we can draw together. Note . . . he's not an artist. At all. When I say I don't have time for collabs and I don't OC, he stops talking to me. No big surprise.

I know a few that are "famous" because they have the money to spend, recognizable and attractive characters that are fun to draw, and are just all-around good people too that people just enjoy spending time with. I think those folks really give back to the community as much as they take through support and really positive interaction; a couple that come to mind hit every con and are the first ones volunteering every time, for example. They may not produce their own character art, but they still earned their kudos by legitimately keeping a lot of folks in business.

the scammer assholes can just die though.

Tell me, how long have I said things of this matter. Ironic it's it, that I seem to be effect by this matter at times despite noticing it and voice my thoughts on the matter. That is life I guess.

You have said it as often as I have. And have been subjigated too it just as oft. We won't gt into our unified problem here. I have mre tack then that.

Absolfugginglutly. ;)

Again, don't knock it. I've been trying to become popular despite being a talentless hack for a long time, now. ;)

Point one: You have talent.

Point two: You actuly make your own thigns and create.

Point three: You don't make yourself know or act like your so important that you can snub pople.

I can knock it, cause your not what I'm trying to get at here. ;)