By Goldie's stories, the chakats were the first to have a second heart figured out/tied in (first couple generations were single heart), so those made before them would all be single heart critters.

And even those with dual hearts are greatly limited if one of them fails (like your own heart after a heart attack or having a valve 'leaking' and limiting your blood-flow.)

I know Khaos' people have two hearts, I know that came about because of Goldfur's stories and that'll probably be the case for many here 15-20 years back. I wonder if I'd have thought that one up myself. I'll never know. :>

Random thought. Timelord taur. Four hearts! Badumbadumbadumbadum!

That is a very interesting question actually. Years ago, based on Chakats, I created my own feline taur characters as well and started the Nezinoma Salis story series with them. I did make sure my characters were distinctly different enough from Chakats however so there would be no problems arising about me being accused of copying Chakats or anything. I did read up on them a lot during that time however, and learned of the way their inner anatomy was worked out with duals of a lot of essential organs such as heart and lungs and whatnot.

The differences I conveyed in my Mry characters are that they are single-gendered rather than hermaphrodites, and they have a single heart located in the chest of their anthro upper body rather than two separate hearts. But, in order to have enough bloodflow to all the organs of the quadruped lower body as well, I decided that my characters would have super strong hearts, like those of a giraffe, that has a much higher beat-per-second rate and is larger and much stronger so the blood can be pumped around and to all organs of both bodies, much like how a giraffe has a very extra-strong heart to pump blood up that long neck to the brain. They do have a double set of kidneys, one set in the upper body and one set in the lower, to help with the additional blood filtration, but of all other organs, they have only one or one set. A stomach is located in the upper body, with an extra long intestinal tract to reach all the way down to the rear end of the lower body.

Additional features due to this kind of inner anatomy is that my feline tauroid characters can, to a certain extend, digest poisonous substances thanks to the extra long intestines, much like how koalas can eat eucalyptus leaves and digest the poison in them, and thanks to the extra strong heart, they also possess much higher physical strength - for instance one of them who owns and operates a garage on the mainland of my Minnaluna world, shows her strength by the ability to lift up cars from the front or the back without the need for a floor jack or anything.

I did, at one time, have them have a feature that when nuzzling your head/ears against them while they purred, you could hear two distinct purrs coming from both the upper and lower body, but I dropped that idea after that one mention and decided they would just have one set of lungs as well, much stronger just like the one heart they have. It would be really interesting to have them have double sets of organs since they basically have two bodies, much like Goldfur's original Chakats, but I personally decided to keep it a bit more simple and have an author's excuse to make my characters stupidly strong as well, hee!

Yeah, I love seeing all the 'taur art out there.

Two hearts? Checks monitor... Odd, I don't seem to have even one heart, how odd.

It's quite an interesting concept to think as how certain species would move about their daily lives when creating their world around them or inserting them into an existing one. As for how their dwellings would look and are constructed, I found myself thinking architectually when once asking myself 'what would a wolf's house look like?' for a creative writing project I did back in my high school days and came up with an answer - Frank Lloyd Wright. With that in mind built an entire house for my char with that concept as he designed and built his structures with the land not just on it.

As for the dual hearts, that I would dwell too much upon and find myself going into a rabbit hole if you will as to how they would work, sync or non-synchronized between the upper and lower sections, blood flow from one to the other...gah..anatomy was never my strong suite but it would get to the point where even I wouldn't believe it if it were real. If you recall Alien Nation from back in the late 80's mid 90's, they too had dual hearts even though they were a bipedal species and used that as a reference to work on and even as I tried to keep it simplified, I would still fall into the same rabbit hole...but as you said, it all looks good on paper....heh.

Intauresting subject, Mr. Foxy.

Two hearts makes sense, as well as two sets of lungs. Similar on digestive tracks.

But there are a couple of limitations. That anthro fox muzzle now has to eat a LOT of high protein food to support the much larger lower half, possibly 3x the normal intake for an anthro versus taur form. That is a lot of time spent eating. I expect they always have snacks handy. Herbivores would be non-stop munchies of treats.

Sitting. Low profile foot rests the size of an ottoman or similar with padded top seems like a natural adaptation for furniture. Possibly a U shaped shallow saddle shape to lay upon. Could keep the anthro portion at normal sitting height for tables. A Taur Booster Chair.

Breathing a lot of air has to be forcibly moved through relatively small nostrils. Ferrets make a "dooking" sound due to small nasal passageways and excited hyper breathing. Too much air in a constricted space, reversing direction rapidly results in their cute little doors. For a foxtaur, would that be even more pronounced? Would we have fox hooting?

What does the foxtaur say?

**HROOOONK**

In the works of science-fiction legend Philip José Farmer, he wrote about centaurs several times. And in those books, he also figured that they would have two hearts with the heart in the humanoid torso being simpler and used as an augmentation for blood-flow. The heart that did all the heavy lifting was in the lower-half.

He also reasoned that they would need double lungs and wider mouths than expected to be able to pull in sufficient oxygen and distribute it properly. I believe he said that the lungs were larger (in both parts of the 'taur) and were as powerful as "small bellows".

The centaurs appear in his series "A World of Tiers" as you can see in this cover to the second book: https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/co.....R1200,630_.jpg

Oh, I thought this was gonna be a Doctor Who post. X3

Timelords have two hearts, and the "pa-pa-pa-pum" rhythm of the theme has been retconned as the rhythm of a timelord's hearts

To quote Romana, "One for casual, one for best."

The advantage is that you can leave one in San Francisco and still have one to operate with.

Horses and giraffes don't need two hearts and you can see they have much more forward mass than a taur would have. Two hearts could lead to some fatal complications which is why nature doesn't do that in higher life forms. Hearts are muscle and they seem to pump blood in a perfect rhythm but it doesn't, the volume between one beat and another can vary a lot even in a perfectly healthy animal. Now consider one heart beating out of sync with a second heart, one drawing blood in while the other expels, you suddenly have zero blood pressure. Then there is the issue of how the blood flows and the risk of agitation and reverse flow. Nature avoids this by just making the heart bigger.

Similarly, two sets of lungs doesn't work, either. Lungs are worked by the diaphragm muscle, and having two diaphragms operating through one windpipe just doesn't work. The smaller set would just be overwhelmed by the larger set.

I've always had this idea for a picture of a male centauroid fox confronted with a wall-mounted urinal, trying to decide whether to do a headstand with his hind legs against the wall or stand sideways and lift a leg high.

I can understand the assumption that a 'taur-form would require two hearts. There might even be a "secondary" assisting blood pump. But I suspect that there can and would be only one actual heart in such a creature. After all, if a giraffe's heart can pump blood all the way to its head, a 'taur shouldn't be much trouble to supply.

Thought about it more and decided to draw up the dining platform for taurs in restaurants.

https://www.furaffinity.net/view/39427688/

I already said on your picture, I think in a world where Taurs and Anthros mix that a Bench like seat with padded but area would be more the norm, can fit one taur or two/3 anthro's, I also have the idea that true furs would not like much in the way of clothing, if you put a knit/stcking hat on when it pulls your head hair the wrong way it is uncomfortable, Can you imagine how that would be with fur being pulled backwards all over your body. I am not saying anthro's would be walking around nude, but I see clothing as being more loose, baggy shorts, kilts Loincloths or a mix of kimono/desert robes styled for tails., taurs on the other paw would have issues dressing the lower body so I can see things like horse blankets being used or a loose shirt maybe belt with added pockets/pouches and a naked lower body, if you want a laugh just think of public toilets in a world with anthros and Taurs .... how to poop and pee on a human toilet when you have a horse butt lol and another thought boobs if you have a taur body would you have crotch lower stomach nipples like a horse/dog or upper chest nipples/boobs but my personal nightmare would be a Taur buying and driving a car.....where how do you fit the body and still use pedels etc all the controls would need to be on or next to the stearing wheel

The ideas behind unusual (as in, not four-limbed biped) biology are fascinating to explore.

Along with blood flow, there's getting enough oxygen through, and then there's getting enough food to fuel the entire entity.

think of Taurs they might not need two hearts take the Giraffe they have a big heart that pums blood up an 8 foot long neck. They do have a lot of valves in the veins and arteries that prevent back flow and control the pressure so when they lower the head blood does not rush down to the brain etc. Also speaking of Giraffes they are able to move air up and down that long neck with the lungs they have. Other more simplistic animals do not have a 4 chamber heart, why not have 6 or 8 chambers 4 for the lower body other chambers for the upper, as to diet if you think of the Taur lower body as being the power house it would be able to hold large lungs and stomachs you could just have other organs moved up into the smaller space of the taur body, just becuse the liver in a human is down low does not mean it has to be there. .... We need to get vets doctors and mechanics into a group chat and design a taur body some day .....I also need to find some good Taur stories and art, as i dislike the way that most taurs are drawn now as hyper boobed cocked herms. I prefer a single sex body type myself

Over the years I've been in the Chakat Universe I too have wondered how the duel heart system would work in a Chakat. In cannon stories one heart will sustain life. So that says they work as a parallel system, a simple valve net work would allow this to work with enough bypass flow to let the organs in the lower torso to do their job of filtering the blood.

Blood is a little heavier than water so the hydrostatic pressure in a body is about .5 psi per foot of height. This is why if you are working hard laying down then when you stand up you get a headache. Because of the short stature of the Garetta I don't see this as much of an issue.

It was my impression that the upper torso had a pair of lungs and a heart, all the other vital organs were in the lower torso along with another heart and pair of lungs

The double lungs are not that hard to do the diaphragm impulses just need to be synchronized, the lungs in the lower torso are for oxygenating the blood the upper lungs to help with oxygenation of the blood but are more for speaking. The taur would be able to voluntarily stop the lower diaphragm from working when they were speaking unless they needed to shout

I've explored how taurs would function in an anthro world. (Some NSFW links below.)

That big lower half would mean needing to plan your movements indoors. Getting stuck would be a thing.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26055134/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26057433/

They would absolutely need help grooming themselves. This could be either by family or friends. Getting a call from a taur friend to come help dry or groom them would be normal.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23319598/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/20779109/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27613554/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/31916996/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26202181/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/26202092/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/31832339/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27539324/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/31832481/

I know some taurs would be averse to letting others ride them. Others though would have no problem with it. I would see it limited mostly to friends and family.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/20325943/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27762903/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/39365310/

Taurs would absolutely be used in industry. Feral horses are temperamental, but taurs would be able to put their strength to good use. The level of control they have would beat any mechanical tug.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27695012/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27696568/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27696915/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/29942034/

Clothing would be a bit more optional. Both because of the difficulty in dressing ones-self and issues of thermal management in the summer. That said, clothing would be VERY useful in keeping ones fur clean, given the difficulty of bathing. The issues with dressing ones lower half could be more than offset by the decreased need to wash ones lower half. Clothing in winter could also be very desirable. Bundle up ones upper torso due to the upper torso and arms being thinner, holding heat less well. With those parts insulated, there would be less need to bundle up the lower half. I also imagine the lower torso would grow thicker fur than the upper half. Pockets are also very useful and having ones lower torso carry that weight would be much more comfortable. Taurs would both be more open to being nude while also highly appreciative of the benefits of clothing and wearing it whenever possible.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27159165/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/31518338/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/38841333/

Sleeping would be interesting. You would need a LOT of pillows to get everything properly supported. With a taur couple, they could even use each other for support. You would also need to make sure everything you need is in reach. Once you lay down that lower torso, you're basically immobile. A tuar can't easily scoot about like a piped can when they are laying down.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27159512/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27763539/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/31917442/

The snuggling and cuddling would be legendary. Having even a friend or roommate snuggle up with that warm and furry lower torso would likely be very welcome in exchange for help arranging the blankets and pillows the taur needs to get comfortable.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/33108258/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/27159512/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/30774795/

This is an interesting idea to discuss. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'm not sure about two hearts. you'd need either a valve system, or them beating perfectly synchronous all the time. I think one heart is enough if the rest of the body is up to it. like a giraffe having only one heart (and one lung) which is enough to not only push the blood up all the way to the head, also pushing the blood back out of the legs, and not exploding by the backflow. nature will find a way if you give evolution enough time.
same with the lungs; a giraffe's windpipe is incredibly long, and the body is way larger than any taurform's like garretta or chakat, yet they still have one lung. so why should a much smaller critter have two lungs? I don't see the need to it. if a lung is effective enough is determined by more than the size; grown people who are chainsmokers have the same sized lung than non-smokers, but the constant coughing and filling with smoke makes the tiny bubbles pop which enlarge the exchanging surface inside the lung, lowering it's efficience.
personally I'd locate the lungs in the upper body which is already heavy enough with shoulders, arms, and head; and leave the rest in the lower body, thus lowering the point of weight. many artists put very long upper torsos on taurs, making them top-heavy and in my opinion, prone to fall over forward. (I did a little comic on that years ago, but I think I never posted it anywhere. gotta look for it and change that.) so adding extra intestines (what for, again?) and heart and stuff in the upper torso would make it even more top-heavy.

it reminds me of a couple pewter figures by Ral Partha, origianlly made for the game Bushido. they were called Daeshiru and looked like feline taurs with upper torsos so short there cound't have been more than shoulders and three handwidth of spine. surely those wouldn't need more hearts, lungs, stomachs, livers, etc. :)

this is a very interesting topic to discuss, and come up with ideas. :)

Those how says that centauroids hade no future is obviously unaware of the excellent and beautiful comic-book : Tribes of Kai. A highly recomended reading.

I'll have to look for that..

In exchange I'd like to recommend two:
http://mindfoldcomic.webcomic.ws/comics/
and
http://thelandoftusk.thecomicseries.com/

both have lots of taurform characters. the biplane in Mindfold is of great interest as it is built for a taurform pilot.. :D

I've never really subscribed to the idea that a more complicated cardio system is actually an absolute requirement of a centaurine creature. It's obviously not a matter of size, because every mammal from a shrew to a blue whale manages to get by with one heart. Nor is it distance or "aspect ratio," i.e., length of body vs width, considering that a thirty foot python and a giraffe still have a single heart. In reality, the heart in mammals is not the only pumping mechanism. Veins (but not arteries) have one-way valves in them, and just the action of muscles during exercise also moves blood around the body, like a whole-body distributed "heart."

My reluctance to have two hearts in the Turrans is because that made it feel like they were "put together" from parts, rather than being natural creatures who evolved to their modern morphology. I did think of a slightly more complicated circulatory system, because it seemed to me that the mammalian heart allowed too much mixing of oxygenated and unoxygenated blood, and also was not optimized for supplying the muscles and internal organs proportionately as needed. Elevated blood pressure, necessary for the muscles, is actually dangerous for the neurological system, so there's compromises that have to be made. The mammalian heart is also not all that efficient as a pump, as I learned when mine was in for repair. A "good" ejection volume is around 65%

So the turrans have an eight-chambered heart, located in their mainchest, with more separation between the muscular circulatory systems and the neural/visceral circulatory systems. Taking their blood pressure is not as straightforward as in terrestrial mammals (the visceral blood pressure can be calculated from the ratio of a cuff on a foreleg and a cuff at the base of the tail), and they have a more complex heartbeat with three distinct phases. Their hearts are rather large for their body size, and a 600kg Ayss male might have a heart that weighs 10kg, depending on athletic conditioning. Their heart rate can drop as low as 12 BPM in deep sleep, up to nearly 200 during hard exercise.

None of their organs are longitudinally replicated, but some are bilaterally symmetrical, e.g. lungs, hematocrit spleens, internal reproductive organs, etc. They appear at cursory examination to have two "brains" with one between their mainshoulder blades, and a much smaller one in their head, but the "brain" in their heads is almost entirely dedicated towards sensory interpretation, and is linked to the rest of the brain through a neurological trunk in their upper spine, much the way the sensory cortex is linked to the rest of the brain via the thalamus in mammals, except that the Turran sensory trunk operates at electrical speed, not chemical, thanks to long connective nerve fibers with a high ion content. This gives them shockingly fast reflexes. This also makes them sensitive to strong electromagnetic fields.

https://www.tor.com/2012/04/19/cent.....mbs-one-brain/

In my lore, taurs like me have two sets of the following: Lungs & vocal cords, hearts, and stomachs; the rest of the internal organs are singular.

The upper lungs mostly provide oxygen for the upper half, while the lower lungs provide oxygen mostly for the lower half. The two hearts receive their oxygen from the corresponding lungs. There is some overlap near the "joint", but not much is even necessary, as they are mostly two separate cardiovascular systems.

I see a lot of comments in here mentioning how a giraffe only has one heart. In my opinion: The issue isn't just about the height or distance to the upper body - a giraffe pretty much just has the long neck and head at that point. Imagine having the neck, head, arms - with probably stronger muscles than a biped has, stomach, back muscles, abdominal muscles....it's an entire body, and there's a lot more to it than a giraffe's neck and head. Plus, being highly intelligent creatures, we foxtaurs need more oxygen flow to the brain than a giraffe.

To somewhat respond to a comment about diaphragms when having two sets of lungs: The diaphragm pulls air into the lungs, via vacuum pressure, not positive ("forced air") pressure. Thus, each set of lungs gets its own diaphragm, and air will fill the lungs because it's being pulled into those lungs. They don't technically even have to be in perfect sync, but they tend to be, since taurs just take one breath to fill all lungs.

The vocal cords on each set of lungs are different - the lower set, on the larger feral lungs, provide for more feral sounds, such as growling, roaring, howling, even purring, etc. The upper vocal cords allow for the more-refined sounds, such as speech and singing. And yes, we can use both simultaneously - such as growling while talking when angry!

Being that there are no other internal organs in the upper body cavity, the stomach takes up the remainder of the space where a biped's other organs would be. Thus, the upper stomach is very large, which is necessary because of the increased amount of food a taur needs to consume compared to a biped. The upper stomach is actually large enough to hold an entire meal's worth of food for a taur, before it even passes into the second stomach, which further assists in digestion. This leaves the upper stomach empty and the taur feeling hungry again, which is why we are prone to becoming overweight more easily.



For the subject of "Slice of Life", there are a few differences in a biped vs. taur vs. combined environment. For example, in a taur's home, you may find double stacks of shelves above a counter. Since we can stand on our hind legs, and basically double our height, we can easily reach much higher than a biped, as long as we have something to rest our forepaws against. While I didn't do the double-cabinets in this pic, you can see that I have regular cabinets above the height of the fridge, higher than most bipeds would put their commonly-used items: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/22316520/

Since I'm a macro foxtaur (I'm 8' 9" tall), my home has even larger cabinets and higher ceilings than even a regular taur's home. And it's always stocked with a lot more food than even a taur's typical pantry!

A taur's home also has much wider hallways. We need to be able to turn around without having to back up, so the hallways are at least a couple times wider than in a biped's home. That helps for me, since I'm several times wider than most bipeds or ferals. x3

Our couches are much deeper, since when we "sit" (such as to watch a movie), we like to face forward with all four lower legs "crouched". When visiting a biped furiend, we have to sit sideways along their couch, and turn our upper bodies to one side to face the TV, which can get uncomfortable during a long movie.

Our chairs are basically like a biped's chair with no back or sides. They support our lower belly, so that our legs can rest on the ground without having to support any weight.

In a typical public venue, such as a movie theater or restaurant, you'll generally find designated taur seating, similar to handicapped seating. While these spots can be occupied by anyone, they are preferrably left open for taurs, unless seating becomes limited. The seats will either have no backrests, or ones which can move out of the way for a taur, as well as extra clearance behind it, including being in a wider aisle, when seating is arranged in aisles.




Our cars are typically designed as such: The front seats have no backs, and the inner armrests come up from the bottom of the seat (since they can't be attached to the back, when there is no back!) The outer armrests are on the door sills, as in most cars.

There are no seats where the second row would be, since our back ends occupy that space - both our lower body, and our tails, of course! Opposite to a Rolls-Royce's "suicide doors", the front doors swing open from the front (eg. hinged at the B pillar), while the rear doors swing from the back, like in a normal sedan (eg. also hinged at the B pillar). We open the rear door and get in from the back. When we exit, we open the front door and get out that way. Basically, we move forward into the car, then move forward out of the car. We use our forepaws to push the gas/brake/clutch, just as a biped would use their feet in any other vehicle.

In fact, there's generally not a lot more difference between the two-taur variant and a typical four/five-passenger (biped) sedan or SUV. From the outside, you'd just see the reversed front doors; on the inside, you'd notice the modified front seats without backrests and the armrests attached to the bottom, and the lack of back seats. Some of the heavier of us taurs, such as myself, often have to opt for cars with a bit more horsepower, due to the fact that we can get to be much heavier than bipeds.

Other common vehicle options include a family sedan (or SUV) for four taurs, which look more like a limousine from the outside, and would have a third set of doors. Five-taur variants are not common, since that's kinda cramped. Typically, these cars have the middle door on a double-hinge, which can open either way, allowing for the front passengers to get in, or the rear passengers to get out. They have handles on the front and back of that door, and of course a mechanical lockout to ensure it only hinges one way at a time. The middle door would be on the "aisle" between the front and rear seats, with the rear door being behind the rear seats.

There is also even the option for a taur/biped variant, which would be longer than the two-taur trim, but shorter than one for four taurs. The rear seats in these are designed like the rear seats of a biped's sedan or SUV, but have the reversed front doors and center aisle. The rear doors are aligned on this aisle, to allow the two taurs to get into the front, but the biped passengers can climb into the rear.

Taur-variant vehicles typically come with a flip-up or removable backrest on any taur seat, for biped passengers or drivers.



Hope that insight into my world helps those of you who are curious about us taurs! :3

The 'Centaurs' I wrote about more than 40 years ago only had one heart, but they only weighed 300-400 pounds. The front was almost generic Human; the back section was pretty much like a Human bending at the waist, and their spines ran the whole length and up. One heart, one pair of lungs, for the reasons persons wiser than I have pointed out above. I have referred to 'taurs as longspines in comments in the past, and it usually gets a grin out of somebody.

As for the dragons flying:The (Hitchhiker's) Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

Obligatory...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5312ECwfuvQ

Also: https://youtu.be/ENTJgrjALkY?t=144

Just one reeeeeaaaaally long heart.

Gods this is great. So much to read, so many things I've thought bout.

Tired right now, I have a few taur characters, I try to do these things with them.

I mean, I know I'm still writing about 'taurs. All this month I've been working on a murder mystery story in the chakat universe. And I know that  SethTriggs continues his Tales of Chakona comic series, and he's really good about designing items used for sentient non-bipedals.