you just looked at miles new ych pic

People are really upset about that.
Art is a luxury item, if you can't afford that it's really just to bad.
It's providing a service, some services cost more then others.

Correct.
And the remarks happen every time that he does one. It's really painful to see the same ignorant remarks over and over again and yet people provide NO solution as to what they think should be done about it short of FORCING artists to charge less.

If you have the skill and the demand, you charge what you think your time is worth. He got as big as he is through hard work and a lot of man-hours.

Yep, the same case kinda started to rise up with another artist Rajii whom is having issues with his YCH's being AB'd almost immediately, so the discussion came up that he needs to raise his prices because the Demand is obviously much higher than he is pricing himself at.

What people should be more upset about is Miles posting a character sporting a racist slogan and then defending himself with "The character is interesting" as his only defense as to why he posted a racist dogwhistle

Which was?

Miles originally posted this character to Twitter with nothing more than their name. They have since deleted the post due to backlash, following up with such tweets as this one when pressed.

Then he posted this after people called him out: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/39991654/

I'm confused, what about that slogan is racist?
Also why is it bad for an artist to create a character with potentially negative traits?

I can only assume you're being willfully ignorant if you're not aware of the racist origins of the slogan "America First," because in this day and age there is no question about its origin or its usage.

An artist can create a character with negative traits - in fact, they should, as media should explore all manner of themes including the idea that some things are actually bad. But it is also the artist's responsibility to communicate clearly what the intention of the depiction is.

When an artist posts a widely-known and racist dogwhistle, it's actually their moral responsibility to say "This is a bad thing, and this character is meant to represent a negative aspect." When asked about it, Miles only said he wasn't going to explain a racist slogan when people asked him why this character was using a racist slogan.

And then when people say "Hey, that's not a great depiction," you don't then play the victim and act like you were muzzled for using a volatile racist slogan during an actual white supremacist uprising.

"I can only assume you're being willfully ignorant if you're not aware of the racist origins of the slogan "America First," because in this day and age there is no question about its origin or its usage."

Incorrect actually, I pay very little attention to politics or the trigger finger happy "Everything is Racist" culture we have nowadays, frankly I've gotten tired of listening to people call everything racist or phobic at the drop of a disagreement.

Looking at that slogan from such a point of view I could see it from quite a few angles, one of which could be patriotic concern for ones country.

Context means alot and the usage of the slogan in Miles' image gives no context for me to derive anything racist from nor the rest of the image.

And as for Miles' reaction, in this climate today, I wouldn't be surprised if Miles thoughts were "Oh christ the over sensitive sjw's are bitching a fit, better to take it down than try to explain to people that aren't going to listen about it anyways."

I dunno, you have to stretch pretty hard to justify a white nationalist slogan as acceptable in ANY context, but refusing to provide that context is pretty damning overall.

But you seem like a bootlicker, so whatever.

God, you sound like such an unpleasant person. lmao

They already blocked me for not agree'ing with them.
This is why it doesn't surprise me that what I said earlier is most likely true.

"And as for Miles' reaction, in this climate today, I wouldn't be surprised if Miles thoughts were "Oh christ the over sensitive sjw's are bitching a fit, better to take it down than try to explain to people that aren't going to listen about it anyways.""

Sorry you had to deal with them. They seem to be quite the sensitive person.

Judging by a number of things that's most likely the case.

Jesus. What a ride that was.
I don't normally block people in general, let alone from reading SOMEONE ELSES Journal.. But that person is kinda a douche. Yikes.
Sorry you have to deal with that kinda stuff.. But I suppose this is the internet.
Feel pretty bad for Miles as well. Poor guy.

It was quite impressive how they jumped in on a journal about miles prices to yell out.. "BUT RACIST SLOGANS!!!"

I find it funny that America means "The Americas (also collectively called America) is a landmass comprising the totality of North and South America. The Americas make up most of the land in Earth's Western Hemisphere and comprise the New World." So by their logic, the Western Hemisphere is racist.

I also find it funny that people call out, "I am leaving America! and moving to Canada!" First, Canada is in America, and you mean you're leaving the United States of America and moving to Canada.

he is not entirely wrong tho , you can stretch it any you want , same as swastika who once was peaceful religious symbol now cant be displayed anywhere because its symbol of Nazism.

That person is in real need of some help. They seem to see hatred in everything they look at, something is truly wrong with their soul.

I hate nationalism, but you need to shut the hell up. Being nationalist is not innately racist, and having a preference to your own country first is not racist. America first has been a motto used as far back as world war fucking one as an excuse to not deal with european affairs.

Everything has origins and things are also subject to change. The Swastika for instance used to have a very different meaning to it for example.

I agree being America First doesn't innately mean you're racist. I have no doubt that most every other country thinks the same thing as "Country First". It's the context in which you use these slogans that are of importance too.

Very much so, I have little tolerance for kneejerk stupidity where just because someone who IS racist uses a motto means that all future uses are racist, especially when the racist usage is still overwhelmed by the original usage.

Ah the typical "fuck context, I said it is [insert]". Sure hope that won't bite you in the ass in the future. Spoilers: it will.

I'm gonna put it simply for you. America First is more of an economic slogan. Amercians are not a race as we come in a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds. It's a stretch to call this racism to have our in interests take priority on the international stage. It's really gotta suck to see racism where there is none. Worse when you start a conversation and then simply block the person when they don't give you the answers you like and end it with a personal attack.

That, bud, is being willfully ignorant. S'ok. I used to behave like you too when I shared the same mindset you clearly have. It's how I know you aren't the objective one here.

Take care.

So I did some extra digging and yeah it seems this person is associating it with white supremacy because during its first use (which was a motto used to keep America out of wars following WW1) and the KKK did adopt it back then and recently with Trump.

Still, looking at the policies themselves and judging them based on that... nah. Looks more like failed attempts by white supremacists to twist it into a slogan favoring their own agenda. Otherwise the actual policies behind the slogan would indeed promote nonsense like racial superiority and blatant hatred of the Jewish people.

The US was involved in a bloody world war that also helped to spread a plague (originated in Kansas) that killed an estimated 675 thousand in the US alone and tens of millions globally...on top of those killed in WW1. So America First became a thing as a slogan promoting neutrality in other wars. Was in part why the US didn't get involved in WW2 until we were drawn into it following the attack on Pearl Harbor.

This person appears to be using the logic "white supremacists supported it therefore it is racist." The same line of thinking that has been at the core of many issues today, from my perspective.

You - "you're stretching pretty far!"

Also you - "patriotism is white supremacy"

Lmfao

Don't assume the worst in people by default. Going off another comment, Drayk just literally isn't very engaged in politics, and did not actually know about the history of the phrase. And even without that, I've watched them long enough to know that they avoid it, too.

Always give benefit of the doubt to people you don't know. Calmly explain first, without insulting them. Then guage their reaction and proceed from there.

It's when people automatically jump down other's throats that really turns off polite discussion and debate with people of differing views and backgrounds. You're not going to convince others when you already treat them like dirt.

Is the slogan on the book in the background ? It's a bit small so I can't see :o Been looking at the pic for the past minutes and I'm unable to find it D:

Try again, see if you can find it: https://imgur.com/a/HNPi1lk

But that's a whole different picture !

is this your only line of defense?

Hear hear!

Is it hear hear or here here... I've never known for sure!

I had to look it up too, its hear hear. XD

Honestly it's supply vrs demand, are there some artist that are out of my price ranger yes, but if they have the demand where they can do that higher price ranger honestly good on them. They need to do what is best for them, most of those people who complain bout high price or probably the same people who try to force refunds and scam artists anyways

Supply vs Demand is part of the equation yes, it's something that all artists need to take into account with their prices in relation to their output speed.

It's why i've asked a few artist friends of mine wether or not they feel that the price they charge for things like Shading justifies the amount of extra time they spend to complete it.

I'll be quietly paying $US30 or a story trade for higher quality work based on my own custom design rather than dropping $200 on someone's ego and a halfway premade image, thanks~.

The community's willingness to shell out entire rent payments for a popufur just to say "I got art from/with X" has always baffled me. They can complain about something if they want and opt to shop elsewhere, I guess, but the crowd is getting a bit too aggressive this time.

People do the same thing with other luxury products, it's no different. Artists like Miles charging such high prices has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with trying to find the ceiling to what people are willing to pay.

Are you really suggesting that artists ask tell themselves that they don't deserve to get paid what people are willing to pay them?

It has everything to do with ego and popularity, or "the brand" as you called it. An insecure or humble artist isn't ever going to seriously slap a multi-hundred price tag on a YCH where they've already decided all the details for any potential buyer.

People will work up their prices as their "brand" expands and there will always be whales (the economic term, not anthro whales ^^') to feed them... while other fans are left to watch the price lines continue to climb beyond what anyone should reasonably be spending on a luxury product or identity piece. You can't swing your argument both ways, by the way; you're saying that economics is at play, but then saying that artists are just going with what they seem to deserve based on what specific people will pay.

And my personal opinion is that, yes, some artists are overhyped and overinflated. Even setting prices and popularity aside, I'm not buying a damn thing from someone who posts a veiled rant every other week, takes weeks to deliver from a queue, and only offers canned YCH options.

"An insecure or humble artist isn't ever going to seriously slap a multi-hundred price tag on a YCH where they've already decided all the details for any potential buyer."

again that doesn't necessarily have to do with ego but more to do with business sense and fear of scaring away customers. a business sensible artist will take notice of the demand for their stuff and over time adjust and adjust to a degree.

Some artists sure probably do go by ego and charge absurdly high, but then when no one buys from them because they don't have the brand.. oh well guess they're pretty fuckered in that case.

Hello oakley sunglasses say hi as a fine example.

Funny story regarding Oakley's. Father and I used to run a second hand store in what is what most people would consider a Rather Mediocre small town with 20k population.

A guy came in wanting to sell off his Oakley Sunglasses for a couple hundred dollars and seemed quite Perplexed(offended) when he was told that he wouldn't get much for them.

"But they're oakley's!?! Do you know how expensive these are?" he said.

To which we replied.

"This is (tiny as fuck town), no one is going to come in here and be willing to spend $$$ on fucking sunglasses."

Couple hundred? sh*t even if they hadn't been opened yet few would be dumb enough to buy oakleys for that price except directly from the vendor.

Exactly. So many people go into second hand stores expecting to get somewhere close to full retail value for things.. It's stupid.

That might work if you were selling it to someone on craiglist. But to a Business that has to then Resell that item as well as pay for overhead? Get real

Something nobody really mentions is what a commission is. A commission is paying an artist to make a picture, that is you are convincing them to make your image. Miles may accept commissions but he'll need a lot of convincing to do an idea that is not his.

Indeed, you're asking another person to perform a custom service. And those services can certainly vary greatly in price depending on the people involved and what's being asked

A common thing that's forgotten is that the artists are usually only one person.
With the brand also comes the supply and demand. And being a single artist the supply is low compared to the demand.
To those people I can only say:
it's ok to be upset you can't afford it, but yeez, move on. You said there's other artists who draw for less, then support them? Don't be a pissy douche.

When I was younger I used to be jealous of talented artists with big followings, who could get very high paid commissions. Nowadays I'm thrilled for them! YOU GO ARTIST! You earn that cash!

erk It's upsetting there's still a lot of people acting like that :/

As a Commissioner alone I've encountered several artists that expressesed "envy" at the following that I have alone myself, but one way or another I cultivated that following over time and in a way it does have its own value.

Brand does have a weight that people need to understand, you yourself saw it when you and I did that YCH together long ago involving the room party. That was a great example of Brand Value!

I remember having this sort of conversion about a type of car.
It was about Skoda vs VW.
At the time there was a car that was nearly identical to the VW Passat. and someone had scoffed that only poor people would get a Skoda. I told them "Well look at those two" *happen to have a VW and Skoda parked next to each other* "You know which is which, right?
"Well what if they took off all the badges and IDs could you tell which is which then? Your not buying a car here, you are buying a badge. A symbol nothing more, like all the other high ends they are mostly status symbols, here you have two cars pretty much identical but you know what one is more exspensive, due to its brand"

I will admit the first time I saw Miles do one of these expensive YCHs i was a gasp, that was a second hand car to many. But you look at just WHAT he can do. Not a Miles fanboy but I am impressed and like any artist he can charge what HE feels his art is worth.
There are times I see an artist who has really amazing talent getting side lined and feel they are cheapening their worth with barely any notice but like anything consumer based its not about how much they are selling, its about how much someone is willing to pay.

The car thing is a great analogy too as well. I was talking to a customer at the place that I work and something came up regarding cars that was rather funny was that most vehicles all use parts from the same fucking manufacturers. When a vehicle needs a repair it's never a "Ford" or "Chevy" part that needs replacing.. it's all the same shit from the same part maker.

Cars are typically all made up of parts from the same places, just put together differently with a different brand name on them.

I appreciate your take and completely agree, if only more people saw it this way

Unfortunately it seems that many people see artists as just a Machine that all are equally worthless instead of individuals that are capable of generating their own greater worths

There's also too many people who feel entitled to artwork, which is a luxury good. *shakes head*

Support our smaller artists! :U

Yeah.. sadly alot of people do get kinda pissy when something they want is no longer within their grasp xD

Reminds me of the old days when people bitched about playfur being a paysite. "We deserve it for free!" when they could just, y'know, check another artist's work out for free. It's not like we don't have a nearly unlimited amount of furry porn on multiple websites. lmao

Yeah I always rolled my eyes at that... plenty of furry art available for free... why are people bitching ??

Ah, yes, the person who works hard to get their money, is miserable and hopes to get something to perk up their mood, is entitled, while the person who makes thousands of dollars for ten hours of work (which if you paid attention to the speed in which miles posted Completed YCHs in the past, it was usually less than a full day after it closed), is just a "guy selling luxury goods"

Also great comparison. people forking over real cash totally the same as people demanding free shit. Not like the artist upping his price in a false way is any example of someone wanting something for nothing.

Showing malice towards someone simply because they're not within your price range could certainly come off entitled.

However I never said anything about "Demanding Free" shit. I said "No longer within their grasp."

There are fuckloads of artists that I Consider "no longer within my grasp" because I can't justify spending the money on them in relation to my current income. That doesn't mean I think their prices are too high or should be changed.

^ This
I used the word 'Also' for a reason, I was adding onto what can help contribute to the problem.

Plus... people can elect to save up money in anticipation of getting a commission from the artist that is out of reach at a future time. I have seen artists other than Miles show a willingness to even work out a payment plan. Even if they don't then just save up if its that important to have. Took me months of saving for my 3dtv and foregoing other luxuries.

Exactly, if we really want something, then we'll save up for it if it's within our means. Otherwise we can just look elsewhere and invest in other things

I was going to try to tell you "no need to yell" but fuck it.

If you don't want to read an entire comment, I won't read yours.

Just know I wasn't talking about commissioners, I was talking about people bitching about not getting free stuff. Two different things.

I read your full comment. You equated people complaining about an absurd price for a commission to people demanding free shit. It isn't hard to read it. read it back yourself you entitled prick.

Hostility won't get you anywhere. Have a nice life, lad ;)

I know what you are saying and though I might not agree with it personally I can respect it. A brand takes a lot of time and energy to cultivate. When people devalue that kind of work it can really be a bumber for the one who worked hard to make it happen.

My own opinions aside, I can understand why their prices are ridiculously high. I don’t complain but I can be disappointed! XD I can also tell that I would wish they were a bit lower but that doesn’t mean they have to do what I want!

As long as we can recognize that this work is Miles and they can do whatever they want with the rep they earned, then I think that is fine. Complaining about it won’t change the price and it really shouldn’t. That would disrespect the person who worked so hard to make their art so popular.

Basically, long way of saying, more money more problems.

We probably agree more personally than you think. I wish the prices weren't as high myself, it sucks to feel that something is out of our reach. But at the same time I understand why these circumstances are what they are!

True that complaining about it won't change anything. People have more power with their wallets afterall!

Exactly! XD We just need to be more mindful and courteous! People need to live too!

I tend to not use price sheets, since I price commissions individually; based on difficulty and how long it'd take to work on. But I do try to keep them as cheap as I can.

It's not an easy balance to achieve, especially with individual per basis pricing as I know that can kinda scare customers away if they're unable to find a price sheet to give them an indication of affordability or not!

well, I feel like Miules prices are ridiculessly high but Im not going to their page and complain about that. After all, our world works in quite simple ways sometimes. think their prices are too high? dont buy, if others think so, too they have to adjust their prices but as you can see, people buy their art. Why? because appereantly it is worth it to some.
Sometimes the value of something is subjective, or well, quite often it is.

True true... people will pay what they're willing to pay, and as long as people keep doing so then no need to change ... if it aint broke don't fix it they say

yeah. as long as people are willing to pay those prices why go down^^"

While I'll never pay the prices for his art, I definitely can admire the fact he knows his worth and is willing to give a bottom line to it. The fact he has built himself up over the years he's been around and is crazy awesome. I get it, people will bitch but some people never take the time to think, he's been around longer than most and he has built from the ground up, what he sells today.

He is too expensive for me but that doesn't say I hate him or his art, actually the opposite. Love the art he pushes out and his style. I might be the weird one here but, more power to him.

I do like reading all the comments when he puts a YCH up though. It's rather entertaining.

Same I do quite enjoy seeing some of the comments, not all of them though ... which is why we're here lol

Yessir yessir. I'll just sit back and relax, watching the comments burn. *Insert fire reflecting on sunglasses*

Ill admit it, when i first saw those YCHs from miles a few years back, i was pretty skeptical about his art legitimately being worth that much. I was also in the crowd thinking he was just exploiting the community or something. I felt like him and other artists where just trying to nickle and dime people. But when i really thought about it, i realized... its not really effecting me in any way. If people are willing to pay those prices then, i guess good on him. If i can't afford it then well i just have to find someone i can afford. people made a pretty good point that a lot of artists do tend to under charge for their work, hell sometimes the stuff i do doesn't feel like its worth it so i can definitely speak from experience there. nowadays i just laugh when i see those ychs and move on, theres no reason to get pissed off about it. if that artist is able to make that kind of income then if anything it just shows how accomplished that person is and in a way should be inspirational.

Agreed on all points. What I find funny is the artists that comment on there saying they would never charge like miles does and try and act all high and mighty and taking the moral high ground about it.

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that these people would genuinely say no to someone wanting to pay 4 digits for something they drew.

yep that is true. seen that very thing for myself. I guess its just really hard for some people to let someone enjoy the fruits of their labor. Jealousy likely. Again i'm just as guilty of it but its really not worth stressing over and making an ass of myself. im getting too old for that kind of drama now lol.

Too old for that shit no kidding.. I feel that 100% ... so many times i've just backspaced an entire comment in progress because I was like.. "Nope.. not gonna waste the braincells on stupid."

Sure he's built himself a brand, but it's pretty clear (at least in my eye) he's been getting lazy with quality over the last year or two.
I mean, there's no denying that's ultimately what you want: Maximum gains = Minimum effort
But as someone who's clearly worked hard over the years to build the aforementioned brand, it does reek a bit of resting on one's laurels.

I mean how many watering hole YCH's have we had? How many gyms? How many pinups with generic and uninteresting poses? Quite a few.

He's free to charge whatever exorbitant price he pleases if people are willing to empty their pockets for it (cuz it's a free market). But equally I don't think it's wrong to want more from someone who has such a history and brand ostensibly for quality.

Though given how many companies and brands out there have gotten lazy, more expensive, while steadily offering less and less over the years, I'm equally unsurprised people are used to it.

I've had the same thoughts as well. I really wish we could see some different "Scenarios" in regards to his YCH creations.
it's like seeing skyrim released again...

Well it's nice to hear someone agrees with me on that particular point. It seems to be one of those legit criticisms that gets drowned out whenever it comes to this guy. Because it's really the primary thing that bugs me so much about his prices.
It's churning out the same thing over and over for increasingly greater sums. C'mon man, add some variety in there for goodness sake...

Yep exactly.. I could care less about how much he charges, they're out of my price range regardless... But I just want to see them do different scenes!

That's partially why I had to unwatch. I got so flippin' bored of the output.
Variety is the spice of life, as they say.

True that! Can't blame you there at all! :D

^This. I have noticed that when some artists gain popularity their prices go up and quality goes down. That is actually my main complaint. If someone simply charges an absurd amount I just don't buy it nor do I go out of my way to thell them they are pricing too high. It's obviously working for him since people buy from him. But yeah the quality drops I'd argue are more of a problem. I would feel cheated knowing I am paying top tier pricing but not getting their top tier skill.

Personally I always argue that just because something is selling, that doesn't necessarily make it good.
There's plenty of stuff out there that's of poor quality, yet people still buy en-masse.

Like PS5 Boxes on Ebay!

Which is dumb...dumb...dumb because Sony doesn't typically honor warranties without the original store receipt and they've been known to deny warranty service on consoles purchased on auction sites like ebay even in "new" condition.

But it's as my dad says "You can't fix stupid."

Yeah, I heard about that. Chad move to those sellers xD

This is very true. Seen it plenty in the art community as well as in retail. I personally don't think it's unreasonable to expect a person's top tier level of quality when they're charging top tier pricing.

Sadly it has happened with a few artists I had commissioned before, one of which did it in the middle of the project itself cuz she felt she took on more than she could chew and acted as though she was doing me a favor by finishing it in spite of getting a $50 "tip" to do as we agreed on. This was after paying nearly $300. She only finished it after she completed 118 other commissions nearly 2 and a half years after the fact and the quality was just garbage. Which really did suck because the first drawing of my character she did was just dead on accurate with only one mistake that was actually my bad cuz I didn't catch it until after it was done. That could have been the perfect refsheet.

But yeah it's happened too many times now and kind of lost interest in commissioning art. Instead I'm just working on my own art study to draw stuff myself. Leaves me with more funds toward other luxuries I enjoy.

I’m really glad I had the opportunity to get a drawing from miles when I did at a con. I’d never be able to justify these prices

Absolutely. Different products for different incomes. I can't justify it either, but if I had just.. retarded amounts of disposable income laying around I'd happily nab a spot from Miles just for the sheer fuck of it.

If I had THAT much disposable income I’d have an entire room dedicated to action figures lol

Which ones :o

Hot toys. Roughly $300 per figure

Oh dang.. that's some expensive figures!

Honestly when I see people making those whiny comments on his YCH pages it feels like people are just plain harassing him at this point .... that or it's just gotten to be that god damn annoying from seeing all over and over again lol

Exactly, if you're going to complain, at least offer some constructive criticism or an idea or solution as to what he should do other than "You're not allowed to make that much!"

theres iphone and android, then theres landline

a truly archaic creation!

Rotary is where it's at! And I was doin it before the pushy buttons! *Adjusts onion*

damn right

timeless!

Respec

Squeee

Crazy that people can't understand the gap between the art/time and the brand. Your iPhone comparison is pretty spot on. For a lot of people the ''brand'' has a lot of value; I'm not sure why people are surprised when we see people walking down the street with 800$ Gucci sunglasses that look just like any other sunglasses... but with a half a centimeter Gucci logo on it.

As ridiculous as I think the prices are, those who blame Miles for it are really out of touch with reality. If they were a big brand and could sell a furry commission for 5000$, they sure would. My one (well, two) gripe is that I feel like the quality went down a lot, and that the pictures would probably look better without squeezing in 6 extra characters in pictures on the walls :)

I agree, the quality argument is something I hear a bit. That's a definitely valid viewpoint to have ! Sadly I can't really tell as I haven't paid attention to it all over the years so I haven't much noticed a decline XD
I don't have the eye for it I suppose

Well, people usually don't think of art as a luxury item. Art has gotten a lot of bad rep in this day, partially due to all the nonsensical "modern art" that costs a ton and is very little effort. Again, as you explained, because of the "brand" the artist has. There is a discussion to be had whether it is right for luxury items to even exist or not. For example i think it is not exactly fair for a few persons to be able to spend on one image what a ton others earn in a month.
I also think people see it as the artist having a huge ego and thinking their product is worth the enormous price, when in reality others can do the same or better for cheaper. People do call Apple a scam company from time to time for "tricking" people into spending way more on products they can get for less somewhere else.
Artists as well get angry when they see someone in a similar skill level as them earning 10 times more just because they have become a celebrity.
All in all, it comes down to feeling cheated and like life is unfair, which is kinda true in some ways.

Life is full of the fair and unfair, but that's just life and all it's infinite possibilities. Also it's quite subjective as to what is fair to people.

I think it's perfectly fair that people who earn alot of money are able to spend it on things that other people cannot. Afterall it is their money.
I think it's perfectly fair that someone who has grown a large following of people is able to reap the benefits of it while someone who has not yet grown any audience does not.

....and here I am just throwing extra money at the people I commission telling them they can have all the artistic liberty they want because I think their style is neat.

That's the way to do it.. Find artists you love to do business with and shower them with repeat business

Maybe so, but you can literally find three other artists with a similar art style and quality who are 1/10th the price.

It might be "the brand" but there's also ignorance from the customers, arrogance from the artist, and laziness. The guy went from making a few pics a month and having enough money for multiple months to doing ONE pic a month, and having enough money for four months minimum.

You might think people's upset are simply spoiled entitled jackasses, but most of us don't get free art from people (like SOMEONE, hint at who is really more entitled here). You might think his prices are fair, but again, most of us have to think about our purchases before we buy them. You might not think his money is too much, but some of us have been out of work for nearly a damn year due to a virus, and do not have the money to buy fifty dollar commissions, let alone these absolutely abhorrent prices.

To add to it you want to make it seem like it's normal that his prices are so high. He's one of the absolutely most expensive artists now. And it's not because his quality is the greatest. It's because he just ups his YCH prices every time and basically stopped taking normal commissions. He's LITERALLY grifting. It's price manipulation. The guy has more than enough time to work on more than one pic, the speed in which he used to do pics even with multiple people shows it. He's only slowed and upped his price to artificially inflate the demand by forcefully reducing the supply.

Guy saw himself a golden goose and instead of simply taking it home like many artists who have done scummy things, the guy's outright punching the golden eggs out and letting a bunch of ignorant fans defend him as he does because "WhAt HaS hE rEaLlY dOnE wRoNg"

"but you can literally find three other artists with a similar art style and quality who are 1/10th the price."

Then go commission them, that's the whole point.

"The guy went from making a few pics a month and having enough money for multiple months to doing ONE pic a month, and having enough money for four months minimum."

That's an achievement. Think of how much he can put into retirement. He's quite the lucky one.

" but most of us don't get free art from people"

This has what point?

"You might not think his money is too much, but some of us have been out of work for nearly a damn year due to a virus, and do not have the money to buy fifty dollar commissions, let alone these absolutely abhorrent prices."

So what does that have to do with miles?

"To add to it you want to make it seem like it's normal that his prices are so high"

Oh they're certainly not normal, they're quite abnormal. But people are willing to pay for it still so why is that bad?

"The guy has more than enough time to work on more than one pic, the speed in which he used to do pics even with multiple people shows it. He's only slowed and upped his price to artificially inflate the demand by forcefully reducing the supply."

If you could work at a more relaxed pace and make more money, wouldn't you?

"Guy saw himself a golden goose and instead of simply taking it home like many artists who have done scummy things, the guy's outright punching the golden eggs"

So what is the solution then?
How do you solve the "Problem" of people willingly conducting business with each other simply because you don't like the prices involved?

The solution is not to fucking defend it. Not to label everyone complaining as an entitled brat just because they don't want to pay outrageous prices. Everyone tries to say "vote with your wallet" for shit like this, guess what doesn't work and what you've completely fucking ignored. Voting with your wallet when the prices are so high the minority decide the end result.

You know where your wallet doesn't matter? the place where a person only needs one sucker to be set for half a year. Then all it takes is people defending his abhorrent practice to encourage suckers to go for it.

You want to know how to solve it? complain about it. make it a big deal instead of defending it. Reason? peer pressure will make less people willing to go for his outrageous prices, which will force him to reduce them to maneagable levels.

As for your other points "what does it have to do with miles" simple: guy is in a luxury cruiser, while the people who keep him in said luxury cruiser are drowning in the ocean. Guy deserves no sort of special defense in that situation.

"This has what point?" it's proof that you complaining in other comments about people being "entitled" by complaining about his prices, shows you have no room to talk. emphasis once again on how much FREE ART you get from people. For someone who wants to complain about people being entitled for complaining that an artist is essentially marking up their prices to unreasonable levels so he can be LAZIER, you sure do get alot of free shit from people, including high-tier artists. I'd say that sure sounds more entitled than someone forking over hard-earned cash. Don't bother trying to defend it as "i buy alot of the art i get, too" It doesn't nullify the point that you get an abnormal about of free art compared to others, yet want to label OTHER as entitled.

"then go commission them, that's the whole point"

Then ENCOURAGE people to go commission them, don't make a journal going "How dare people think this guy's outrageous prices, are infact outageous!! They're just spoiled, entitled little pricks! Have they not learned that a drawing is a luxury good and thus totally counts in the same price range as being able to buy a HOUSE!"

"that's an achievement. think of how much he can put into retirement, he's quite the lucky one"

He's not lucky, he's exploitative. The fact you try to twist this from "guy could make one or two pics a month AND BE SET FOR MONTHS ANYWAY to making ONE pic a month and being set EVEN LONGER" into "He's just really lucky" is really telling.

I do go to other artists for my art, there are really fucking great artists who are alot cheaper, they're alot more talented as well, which is part of why his price is so outrageous, even you've admitted his price was absurd, the reason people think so is because his talent and skill are not proportional to that of what he is making. It reduces other people's motivations, as people who are just as skilled but have more reasonable prices, will see his prices (as he is popular enough for them to see it) wonder why the hell he can make so much more, and when people defend him they start to think he has talent and they don't. In his actions he hurts the art community much more than just by "Oh. some people just don't like that he sells things high". You for for a fact artists make "am i really any good" journals all the time, question their own art prowess, most of the time good or great artists, and many of those times their reasonings are because they saw what other artists are making, and don't get why people won't pay them that same wage when their art is just as good or in some cases better.

Defending this guy. hurts. other. ARTISTS.

"The solution is not to fucking defend it. Not to label everyone complaining as an entitled brat just because they don't want to pay outrageous prices. Everyone tries to say "vote with your wallet" for shit like this, guess what doesn't work and what you've completely fucking ignored. Voting with your wallet when the prices are so high the minority decide the end result. You know where your wallet doesn't matter? the place where a person only needs one sucker to be set for half a year. Then all it takes is people defending his abhorrent practice to encourage suckers to go for it. You want to know how to solve it? complain about it. make it a big deal instead of defending it. Reason? peer pressure will make less people willing to go for his outrageous prices, which will force him to reduce them to maneagable levels."

What we're disagreeing on however is that belief that his prices are a problem to begin with. You are suggesting that we use peer pressure to force an artist to change his prices so that they're more affordable. Shouldn't the people that are willing to pay his prices set a standard of what he should be allowed to charge?

"As for your other points "what does it have to do with miles" simple: guy is in a luxury cruiser, while the people who keep him in said luxury cruiser are drowning in the ocean. Guy deserves no sort of special defense in that situation."

What is your evidence that all of his customers are "Drowning" in the ocean. I know some of the people who have purchased art from him and they I assure you are very well off in boats of their own. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the people who are his customers are people who are financially capable and willing to support him?

""This has what point?" it's proof that you complaining in other comments about people being "entitled" by complaining about his prices, shows you have no room to talk. emphasis once again on how much FREE ART you get from people."

So does the fact that I've received free art in the past invalidate all the experience and viewpoints I may have despite the fact that I've commissioned and paid for far more art than I have received for free?

"Then ENCOURAGE people to go commission them"

I don't need to, that should be common sense. What person looks at an artist they can't afford and goes "I should harass them into being affordable instead of going anywhere else." The common sense thing to do is to look elsewhere.

"He's not lucky, he's exploitative. The fact you try to twist this from "guy could make one or two pics a month AND BE SET FOR MONTHS ANYWAY to making ONE pic a month and being set EVEN LONGER" into "He's just really lucky" is really telling."

So then how much should an artist be allowed to make? Should we set limits on how much people are allowed to pay artists? At what point do we no longer allow customers and artists to decide that between each other?

"Defending this guy. hurts. other. ARTISTS."

I argue that attacking him makes other artists fear becoming popular and upping their prices.
I've spoken to artists that have said they are worried about raising their prices because they don't want to be attacked for it.

Alot of misleading attempts to remove context in that there string of yours.

First off. you try to mask it by going "how do you know ALL of his costumers are 'drowning' in the ocean" this already denotes the fact you know plenty of them are and you are simply trying to downplay those people.

Again you've cut off where i stated you'd try to work around my statement of the free art with the very thing you tried to use. You. are calling people entitled. for complaining about an absurd price. While YOU. are someone. who gets free art ON REGULAR INTERVALS. It doesn't matter if you buy 300 pics and get 299 freebies, if you're complaining that people are justifiably upset that a picture from an artist costs as much as a fucking HOUSE.

"how much should an artist be allowed to make" is a loaded question and you know it, not only does it not pertain to this situation PROVEN BY HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE UPSET BY HIS INSANE PRICES it is meant to make it seem as though the guy's worth it because people buy it. The guy can set these abhorrent prices because he is so popular people are buying his art to gain popularity in the first place "I could buy this much less popular guy's art for a hundred bucks... but i'll get like... 20 views. But whoa, this guy, if i pay that ten grand pricetag, i'll get thousands!" Just like how people adore to get retweets on twitter, the view and watch system gives a similar endorophine rush and this is something that people will want to get. It is like Ea manipulating rich kids and gambling addicts in videogames.

Do you wanna know why they fear upping their prices? because people like this guy's set a standard, many people are gunshy about propping artists up anymore, oh, you "spoke" to artists and they are "worried about raising their prices because they don't want to be attacked for it" good job. You know why people attack them for it? because they're sick of seeing spoiled artists get outrageous prices on their shit.

People like me, i'm sick of seeing artists abandon the community because they do good art but nobody will commission them because it doesn't fit the popular art styles. I'm sick of seeing expoitative bullshit like this get defended just because it's popular because all it does is create even more animosity between the consumer and the artist.

You want artists to be happier? don't defend this shit and you'll find when this guy's out of the community others will be less scared to up their prices based on their actual skill level. This guy on the other hand has not improved his skill level in years and yet his prices have continued to rise to levels you could literally buy land cheaper than you could buy a picture from him.

"Alot of misleading attempts to remove context in that there string of yours."

copy pasting entire paragraphs is unneeded, just focusing on the points :>

"First off. you try to mask it by going "how do you know ALL of his costumers are 'drowning' in the ocean""

Not trying to mask anything, I'm making a point that whose to say that any of his customers are drowning? You're making it sound like all of his customers are struggling to survive instead of possibly being financially stable and responsible individuals.

"Again you've cut off where i stated you'd try to work around my statement of the free art with the very thing you tried to use."

Again what does free art I've gotten have to do with our views on miles prices?

""how much should an artist be allowed to make" is a loaded question and you know it"

When everyone is complaining that he charges to much then shouldn't it be relevant what the peer pressure tell him he make?

"Do you wanna know why they fear upping their prices? because people like this guy's set a standard"

Do you really think that one guy charging high prices is setting the standard for the entire fandom?
Again I tell you that the Behavior of attacking artists for their prices is the more damaging component, it's something that people do to artists on various skill/price levels and it's really disheartening to them.

"People like me, i'm sick of seeing artists abandon the community because they do good art but nobody will commission them because it doesn't fit the popular art styles."

I'll agree that totally sucks. But Popular art styles are popular for a reason, people flock to them and enjoy them more, they're easier to gain a following with. Not all art styles are equal and that sucks unfortunately.

I'm sick of seeing expoitative bullshit like this get defended just because it's popular because all it does is create even more animosity between the consumer and the artist."

Then why stick around and consume it? Why not just unwatch the artist and focus on other artists you do like?

"You want artists to be happier? don't defend this shit and you'll find when this guy's out of the community others will be less scared to up their prices based on their actual skill level. This guy on the other hand has not improved his skill level in years and yet his prices have continued to rise to levels you could literally buy land cheaper than you could buy a picture from him."

Skill levels may not have improved, but his fan following and thus the people that want art from him still has continued to rise, again if people are still willing to buy from him... why not allow that to just continue?.

In summary why continue to focus on miles and try to tear him down because his prices are so high. Yes they're high, they're outrageously high, ridonkulous even!
But what good will come from bitching about it? How is it a problem in the first place that he is conducting business with people that are willing to pay these prices.

Ah, yes "copy and pasting entire paragraphs is unneeded", so indeed "true" when you outright cherrypicked literally every bit of what you responded to here, ignoring what was actually the context and pretending like i didn't answer questions you're re-asking.

You're out of an actual defense so you're trying to be disingenuous at this point.

If you're just tired of arguing you can say so.. I'd still like to know what my "Free Art" has to do with anything still. I thought that was quite amusing.

Hm... gee, i wonder, a person who gets free art... complaining that others are entitled for complaining about an artist demanding the price of a house to get art from them... hmmmm....

At this point you're playing stupid. I know you are, you're not that fucking stupid and you're more self-aware than this. You know full well the hypocrisy of this journal, as you're one of the most art-whoringest artwhores on this platform, you get free art from artists who literally say they block people for hinting at free art, you get more free art than 'neer does and he gets free art as a freaking payment system sometimes.

Again I'm confused why you think what amount of art I get is free or not is relevant.

We're talking about wether or not Miles should be allowed to charge what he charges or not.
If me getting free art invalidates my viewpoint. What about everyone else here who shares that view?

Im afraid I don't see the logic here.

The logic is simple to understand: You made a journal, essentially defending an artist for a horrendous price. You in the comments above have literally agreed with the idea that these people who are complaining are acting entitled, aka, spoiled.

It's hypocritical, as most of the people who are complaining, they more than likely haven't gotten even one piece of free art, yet they're to be labelled as "entitled" by you and your readers. Oh, but you, with your overly high level of free art from artists, even ones who repeatedly even complain about people "asking for free arts", you are not at ALL entitled and spoiled, nope, you "boughts some of that arts yourself" so that totally puts you in a position in which you're allowed to lecture people about what said artist should or should not be allowed to do.

It's extremely hypocritical and it IS what invalidates your opinion on these matters. You might sit there saying "well he's allowed to have whatever price he wants" but you're also someone who gets free shit on the regular, even from artists who are constantly complaining "people only ever want free shit!".

The fact that you're equating validity of opinion with whether or not someone has free art sounds like an excuse. Especially since Free Art has nothing to do with wether an artist is charging to much or not. If you're not willing to discuss this topic with any valid merits then I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

If you truly feel that Levels of Free Art affect this opinion then perhaps you should discuss this topic with any of the other people in this journal whom share the exact same opinion despite not having as much free art or any at all.

You wanna talk about an excuse? i pointed out people were in situations where they had little to no money, and you brushed it off (in a fucking covid lockdown, fyi, where businesses around the world are being shut down forever) as "They should've been more finiancially stable"

Talk about a fucking excuse. Guess they should all just eat cake, ms. antoinette.

Why are you worried about people with no money getting art?
I'd be more worried about them being able to afford food...

Like Cake...

im still not sure how free art means anything in this. im by no means a popular furry and i've gotten a few bits of free art from artists. like a thank you for commissioning them so much,making them laugh on stream, or just because they can and im easy to draw XD

It means something because he is trying to equate these people complaining about an artist's unreasonable prices (incase you don't know, miles' prices are in the multi thousands and rising), to the old choosey beggar stereotype of "this artist sucks because they didn't give me free art".

He's already admitted he would never pay this much, he tried to defend this by saying artist friends of his are worried to increase their prices because of the backlash people like miles gets, but he also seems to completely ignore the fact he basically admits if they up their prices he'll stop buying from THEM as well.

It's complete hypocrisy.

Quite a few words you're putting in my mouth. I even know what some of them mean!

But naw really, you're misrepresenting my context quite a bit. Im not equating people complaining with anything. I'm just saying that should like.. move on and go commission other people.

Also if people up their prices to meet demand then they likely have a healthy customer base that can afford them. It's very natural that as artists grow and acquire more customers, more of those customers will likely be ones that can afford their higher prices as the less wealthier customers taper off and commission less. It's really a balance and growth that happens across the fandom naturally.

Defending an independent artist and their choice to charge what prices they feel is fair for the demand their work garners is NOT hurting other artists. That is such an obtuse take.

Starting from nothing, working your way from the ground-up overtime, and earning the respect and attention you earned on your own is entirely fair, and everyone has the same opportunity.

What people choose to buy is their choice, and their preference.
What you choose to think about how fair or unfair it is entirely your opinion, and it is definitely one in the minority.
Popular artists do not hurt other artists, but in fact have little effect on other artists who charge less for potentially the same or better quality.
It is also up to the individual to grow their audience/brand, and nobody is ENTITLED to anyone's attention or money.

Drayk is entirely right: vote with your wallet.
If people mutually agree that a person's art is not worth the price, they will find other artists to suit their budget and tastes.
There's hundreds of them out there.
Just because you have this unusual perspective that seeing someone successful for having made a name for themselves and recognizing their growth and utilizing their success is somehow HURTING other artists does not give you nor anyone the right to demand how they should run their life and their business.
You are entirely entitled to whine and complain as much as you want, but you only make yourself look like a fool in the process when you realize how entitled you sound to dare complain about "luxury" purchases that have entirely no effect on anyone's life but to simply act as "a top-brand t-shirt for e-clout."

People's own issues with budgeting and making smart economic choices is not the artist's fault, and don't you dare try and say such a thing.
Artists are within their right to charge whatever price they wish, ESPECIALLY when they worked their ass off to earn such a luxury as Miles DF.
Harrassing and attacking these artists and making it some bizzaro political activism to cry and scream anywhere possible about how "unfair" it is will never make anyone take you seriously. THIS is what hurts smaller artists by making them scared to want to raise their prices higher when they know they can given how high of a demand they may have gathered for their art. Criticism is one thing, but to blatantly blame artists like them for the struggle of other small artists is just so close-minded of you, you can do better.

THE FUCK YOU SAY ABOUT MY ANDROID

*Beep Boops in Warforged*

Artists can name any price they want for any reason, and people will choose if they want to pay or not, but just like you don't walk into a store and whine about the pricetag on a fur coat, no one should whine about artists pricing themselves too high. It's a brand, but it's also their time and talent that is unique to only them.

That said, my perfectly reasonable and even cheap pieces have been "too high" to plenty of people who would never pay me a cent anyway. Even my free pieces? I still get complaints. Art is, in the end, a luxury, and as such no one needs it to live. No one is deprived of art because they can't afford it, there are endless droves of artists who do free streams or free raffles or free adopts out of the goodness of their hearts.

It's a shame but very true, no matter what price you have there will always be that group that's like "TOO HIGH FOR ME"
Complaining about Free Pieces though... well that's just being a dick xD

WRONG! The only course of action is to complain until affordability is achieved! *RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE*

South Park just fills the world with happiness

This is beautiful.
This is thoughtful.
This is the direct truth of art, and its concept, as a whole, as with anything.

Turns out I'm completely wrong.. Guy above says I'm wrong because I've gotten free art before... Awful shame, I thought I had a valid point!

Well...I've came back to this, and re-read over the threads. You've seemed to got the whole neighborhoods attention with this turd on the lawn.

I'm not gonna deny that in my opinion his base prices are just flat out absurd. But that's all it is: an opinion. People spend tends of thousands of dollars on shiny cardboard (Pokemon cards) which I also believe is absurd. 40k on the latest graphics card because they are not patient and willing to wait a little while to get one for under a grand at retail.

However, he is pricing based on the demand for his work. His work isn't necessary for life ergo a luxury item and he only prices it as such because people pay for it. As you have said he had built a brand. It's the same reason why people willing to pay so much for apple devices in spite of the fact their counterparts tend to be significantly less expensive and perform as well if not better.

In spite of my opinion I just don't see it necessary to take it directly to him as though he is going to drop prices cuz his work is affordable to very few. As those people have said... they can get more pieces from other artists for his pricing. Well... they should do exactly that rather than throwing shade at him in some attempt to guilt him into lowering prices. We aren't entitled to his work. Simple as that.

Business is Business as they say. And exactly, I don't see why people think harassing the artist about his prices is going to make him lower them. If anything I imagine Miles just shakes his head and goes back to doing Russian things

Yup. It's crazy. These folks need to lay off and just buy something from another artist who could use the work. So many choices out there It's like...why waste the effort on trying to bully one successful artist into lowering his prices.

No kidding, so much energy wasted on shit like that.. just move on, use that time investing in artists that can take your business!

No. They're not. I think the name is Stripes, I could be wrong on that. Anyway they charge 300 or more per piece but they do an insane amount of detail in them too. Usually mech related things and that shit can't be easy to draw. Price doesn't scare me so much as not having work done by someone before. If they never drew a given character I get real sketchy on it because I want them to look a certain way. Still trying to find someone who can draw Talon the way I want. Damn it all the hell. >\

Talon has a certain vibe to him that I can't see many artists pegging down very easily

I'm curious. What vibe do you think he has?

Tbh. There'd be no use in complaining for me. I'm not saying your art isn't worth X-amount dollars, I just don't bother. I don't have to the money for a $50 commission, let alone one of his quality. It's nice to dream though.

Could you imagine all the fuckery if everyone who couldn't afford something went out and picketed that thing...

Oh man the Yacht's and SuperCar makers are in for it from me now!

Agreed. Totally. I can’t even get people to pay me $100 for a full colour, shaded digital pics with up to 4 alts, because they see I’m not a big name and expect me to do it for almost nothing. People have very unreal expectations for what artists should be doing or charging. They don’t care that it takes time or that it takes a lot of effort, they want the Mona Lisa for the price of a kindergartner crayon drawing.

yeah well lets be real here. it aint any better when supreme or disney does it either. just because a base level computer has anti-consumer software locking it together and a bitten apple slapped on it doesnt make it magically worth three times the cost of another computer of similar objective computing power. there are expensive artists and inexpensive artists. however those both can fall either in the "overpriced" or "underpriced" as well. dont sell yourself short of what your work is worth. but also dont treat your work as if it is magic. the fact someone can throw splatters of paint on a canvass and his post-mortem spills go for millions shows just how dumb some people can get. the fact there are people out there who barter, haggle, and even harass artists to lower their prices to near nothing for amazing portraits of characters also shows how awful and greedy people can get. you dont need to defend milesdf to defend fair priding of art.

It's so outside my realm, all i can do is sit back and watch. I've been poor my whole life, having to be content with that i can get or make. I'm glad that others can get high quality art or fursuits, but at this point if i can't make it myself I often find that i don't even want it for long.

That said, not trying to call anyone else out. I just felt like saying something. Trying to be more social.

I agree... I have nothing else to say so just imagine a farting sound here.

People forget that the reason the 'Brand' goes up in price due to popularity is because... wait for it... you are paying for their time and they only have so much to go around regardless of demand. Basic economics.

I hate when people nit-pick what Miles does, it's his art and his brand.
I agree with everything you said above, it's ridiculous. If ya don't like it stfu and go find someone else to commission rather than bitch on someone else's art.

how dare you make sense! you stop that right now and be mad like everyone else!

I want a million dollar luxury trophy truck too but I'm not going to companies demanding they give me one or telling them they need to bring their price down specifically for me. I instead bought myself one I can afford. imagine that.

He can charge whatever the hell he wants. People can buy whatever the hell they want. It's not that hard. Getting pissed because something is far out of your price range is ridiculous.
They're choosing to get pissed off by following him and looking at it. Everyone knows at this point what his stuff costs. It's not a surprise.
If he values his time at $300+/hr, great. I don't. I'll commission someone else and move on. That's what adults do.

😂 you opened pandora's box drake lol

I get that there is some stuff that is expensive, but it's his product and he can charge whatever he wants for it. You don't want to spend that kind of money, then don't. But if others want to, let 'em.

A louis vuitton sweater is 2k while just being a sweater too. Or philipp plein jackets.

And if i could charge 4.5k for anything i can make using a couple of hours of mine i absolutely would.

I always said that if people are willing to pay this much for his works then there is nothing I can or should do about it. It's between the artist and their clients. It's still kinda funny because how inflated Mile's prices are is a little absurd and indeed people could pay much less for similar artworks for other artists but in the end, at least from Me, there is no ill will towards anyone, especially the artist. So yeah, live and let live and don;t be too much of an asshole. it's not a sin to have a laugh but don;t be mean. That's my stance on the matter.

Meh. I see no issue with charging what people will pay for.
So long as the rising tide doesn't lift all ships too far, too fast.

I do think everyone ought to be entitled/empowered to purchase art if they wish, at a fair price. Which is why a free market is important, and the right to choose.