
I have been seeing a lot of rude comments in regards to pricing around the internet lately. SO I MADE THIS PSA.
(if i see any dramarama in the comments I WILL HIDE THEM, fair warning)
(if i see any dramarama in the comments I WILL HIDE THEM, fair warning)
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I love it when I get people saying " I think your prices might be set to high.. blah blah blah ( convoluted reasons for you to lower it so they can buy something)" and then the following comments are people immediately buying up commissions. It's like giving a smarmy response without having to do a damn thing XP
I totally agree with you Boo, I'm sorry if this has been a recent occurrence for you.
I totally agree with you Boo, I'm sorry if this has been a recent occurrence for you.
basically is what i used to say until i learned how rude and stupid/arrogant/ignorant that it came off honestly. (not you specifically)
then it just became more a, "shit, i wish i could commission you. i'll have to work on saving for it first though." being complimentative rather than derogative i suppose, even if that desire to commission for them is still present.
reminds me of this one little "kiddy" artist a few months back who started bashing all professional artists he could stumble upon because of some self righteous "i would never charge for art, because blah blah and blah" @@'
rrambling aside:
agree with you here too bud. :)
then it just became more a, "shit, i wish i could commission you. i'll have to work on saving for it first though." being complimentative rather than derogative i suppose, even if that desire to commission for them is still present.
reminds me of this one little "kiddy" artist a few months back who started bashing all professional artists he could stumble upon because of some self righteous "i would never charge for art, because blah blah and blah" @@'
rrambling aside:
agree with you here too bud. :)
For a lot of popular/super good artists, it's easier to set higher prices. For those of us that are just starting out on this site and are still struggling to even get Watches, it's usually smart to start low, get the attention of the "broke" furs, and it'll gather attention. I'm still on the low end of this, offering $5 Plushie Icons. My higher end, which is still low, is my fur stuff... I'll make it to that point eventually
It's more of a side thing I do, just like my fur stuff, because I work 42 hours a week in a retail job. So I guess when it comes to me, I don't see it as that big if a deal to be making min. wage on art I do. But for people that make commissions their bill paying job, then heck yes, they need to to whatever they can to get the commissions but still make their rent.
the problem comes to this is actually more complecated, in short its "supply and demand"
yes 15 dollar that is way to low and goes even past minimum wage, the issue is actually misinterpretation of value and pricing, as we have 1 good and 3 some that cant draw well or starting up, and all fo em charge form 5-15 each, the good one charges for similar work 50 or more, now people will ask the good one why are you so expensive compare to these other ones?
we all know that is a really stupid thing that is like go to restaurant and bitch that the French file is expensive and should be same as a big mac.
the problem is some cant tell the difference in quality, mostly its actually popularity that makes one be able to charge more, with is to me a bit of a silly thing, but that is also how things works as they can charge more if many wants their work.
yes 15 dollar that is way to low and goes even past minimum wage, the issue is actually misinterpretation of value and pricing, as we have 1 good and 3 some that cant draw well or starting up, and all fo em charge form 5-15 each, the good one charges for similar work 50 or more, now people will ask the good one why are you so expensive compare to these other ones?
we all know that is a really stupid thing that is like go to restaurant and bitch that the French file is expensive and should be same as a big mac.
the problem is some cant tell the difference in quality, mostly its actually popularity that makes one be able to charge more, with is to me a bit of a silly thing, but that is also how things works as they can charge more if many wants their work.
Well the "supply" is there, but if someone wants art from you simply because you're cheap or popular, then no thank you. I'm neither but I still have somewhat of a "demand" because I draw a lot and have gotten decent at it, and as tough as it sounds, you need to put that amount of work into it before you'll really get any commissions at reasonable rates. Draw for yourself first and eventually you'll have some demand regardless of rates or popularity.
Oh and when I say popularity, I'm not talking about it being gained through being a good artist, that's natural. I mean popularity as in popufurs.
Oh and when I say popularity, I'm not talking about it being gained through being a good artist, that's natural. I mean popularity as in popufurs.
When it comes to industry standards, most furry artists would be considered underpriced! In fact, in all my time in the fandom, I've only seen one artist who I'd call overpriced. (It was a fursuit maker selling suits with visibly shoddy workmanship, charging 2k+ for them. Don't remember the name.)
Having been a furry for 18 or so years, I can tell you that, waaaaay back in the day, there was an artist called "Wookiee" (a.k.a Nakira) and his work once fetched over $1,000 each. Overpriced? Or more supply and demand? There were few, if any, artists who could produce images that looked that good back in the fledgling 90s and early 00s fandom, and so he could charge what he wanted -- and people were willing to pay BIG.
Oh, and he's still around -- if you want to have a look.
wookiee
It amuses the fuck out of me when furries cry over "$30 this" and "$5 that". LOLZ, I'd like to see these people go downtown and ask a regular professional illustrator to produce their furry porn -- especially at at those prices. I don't think professional illustrators start THINKING about moving a pen for less than $700, much less to sully their professional image and portfolio producing content commonly associated with zoophilia.
Oh, and he's still around -- if you want to have a look.

It amuses the fuck out of me when furries cry over "$30 this" and "$5 that". LOLZ, I'd like to see these people go downtown and ask a regular professional illustrator to produce their furry porn -- especially at at those prices. I don't think professional illustrators start THINKING about moving a pen for less than $700, much less to sully their professional image and portfolio producing content commonly associated with zoophilia.
This is the truth!
I recall my professor giving us an equation for pricing, I tried it with my art and even my current prices are way below what it's worth by that standard.
This is part of our lives we spend on making this art. If people had to pay us in hours from their own life we'd probably never get customers... or they'd all die.
I recall my professor giving us an equation for pricing, I tried it with my art and even my current prices are way below what it's worth by that standard.
This is part of our lives we spend on making this art. If people had to pay us in hours from their own life we'd probably never get customers... or they'd all die.
There were a couple different variations in my notes, but it comes down to:
Cost of Materias+(an hourly wage x hours put into piece)+ Overhead(which is any extra considerations like electricity or if you have to rent a space. It's optional to add) + Size of work (obviously only applies to traditional work. One equation actually had us multiply the total cost by this, but that was for metal works.)
Cost of Materias+(an hourly wage x hours put into piece)+ Overhead(which is any extra considerations like electricity or if you have to rent a space. It's optional to add) + Size of work (obviously only applies to traditional work. One equation actually had us multiply the total cost by this, but that was for metal works.)
I get this very thing at work all the time. If you can't afford our labor, don't complain!
It's easy enough to buy the saws, routers and other equipment and then gain years of experience to do it yourself, but it will not be less than one of my $100 per hour charge.
It's easy enough to buy the saws, routers and other equipment and then gain years of experience to do it yourself, but it will not be less than one of my $100 per hour charge.
I disagree. let's take video games. if a video game is worth 70 dollars, is three hours long and has a metacritic score of 50 and under, then it's fair to say that's overpriced. similarly, if an artist has the talent and drawing skills of a blind guy with parkinson and only half the normal amount of fingers on his one and only hand, makes more anatomical errors than rob liefeld and then charges a hundred and a half dollars for a pic with flat colors, then yeah that's overpriced.
Your art is rather good! Don't be discouraged! :)
Just keep practicing :D
Overall, on FA, the way to get known is 1) Post in the forums occasionally 2) TAG YOUR STUFF 3) Make sure to post often; even in the scraps; if you flood the site with stuff, people will notice.
This is stuff some of my friends with tons of watchers do. So, you got to find what works for you to get more peeps :)
Keep up the great work! :D
Just keep practicing :D
Overall, on FA, the way to get known is 1) Post in the forums occasionally 2) TAG YOUR STUFF 3) Make sure to post often; even in the scraps; if you flood the site with stuff, people will notice.
This is stuff some of my friends with tons of watchers do. So, you got to find what works for you to get more peeps :)
Keep up the great work! :D
As somebody who's been doing commissions for years, I'd much rather people tell me I'm overpriced than kiss my butt and tell me I'm perfect but not ever buy anything. That's a very frustrating place to be, you don't know where to go or what to do. You can start to be convinced that your art isn't worth -anything- if people keep telling you how nice it is, but still never want to pay anything for it.
There are definitely people out there who are extremely rude about telling artists that they're overpriced, with spite or envy in mind rather than honest help. But if you want to tell an artist that they're overpriced because you think it might help them, if they're not getting any commissions or whatever, as long as you're gentle about it that should be perfectly fine. Its a critique like any other, just on the business side.
There are definitely people out there who are extremely rude about telling artists that they're overpriced, with spite or envy in mind rather than honest help. But if you want to tell an artist that they're overpriced because you think it might help them, if they're not getting any commissions or whatever, as long as you're gentle about it that should be perfectly fine. Its a critique like any other, just on the business side.
Sorry for just butting in out of nowhere, but... Ohgodthissomanytimes!
Especially the last part. I have a few friends on welfare who like to smoke some circus tobacco once in a wh... every day, and when they complain about their poor economy, how they can't afford anything fun and the government is making their lives so miserable I just wanna smack them HARD upside the head! (In my country you can easily smoke away 500 dollars a month) But I bite it in... and fume inside!
Especially the last part. I have a few friends on welfare who like to smoke some circus tobacco once in a wh... every day, and when they complain about their poor economy, how they can't afford anything fun and the government is making their lives so miserable I just wanna smack them HARD upside the head! (In my country you can easily smoke away 500 dollars a month) But I bite it in... and fume inside!
ugh.. that reminds me of a friend of mine. he admins on a furry gaming site, and some kid posted on his profile this huge collection of games and consoles, then whined about not having money over something else. so my friend asked how he had such a huge collection. the kid's response: "welfare and unemployment, but the unemployment is only like 100$ a month" ....really? :/
I think when people complain about prices in the fandom being "too high" or artists "overpricing" their work they should look at industry standard prices, then tell us our work is "overpriced" :/
And while I realize there's a good difference between buying a piece for personal reasons and buying for commercial purposes, but still buying in the fandom is SO inexpensive, there's a good deal who don't charge near what they should. And I have to agree, if you can't afford it, look somewhere else and don't be a douche saying the work you want is "overpriced" :I
And while I realize there's a good difference between buying a piece for personal reasons and buying for commercial purposes, but still buying in the fandom is SO inexpensive, there's a good deal who don't charge near what they should. And I have to agree, if you can't afford it, look somewhere else and don't be a douche saying the work you want is "overpriced" :I
THIS. I want to show this to so many people who have given me shit over my prices XD
Seriously, if you don't like the prices, DON'T BUY IT. There's no reason to say, "Your work is over-priced," -especially- when you're not planning to buy anything. Keep your negativity to yourself.
Seriously, if you don't like the prices, DON'T BUY IT. There's no reason to say, "Your work is over-priced," -especially- when you're not planning to buy anything. Keep your negativity to yourself.
I thought this phenomena was limited to furry cons until I started doing art shows for the general public... My god the things people have said to me or in front of me like I'm not even there.
The thing I tell people the most is that just because art may seem like a fun thing to do, it does not mean that it's not amazingly difficult to do and the fact that a painting may only take a couple hours does not take into account the years of practice and schooling it took to get to be able to create it in the first place.
The thing I tell people the most is that just because art may seem like a fun thing to do, it does not mean that it's not amazingly difficult to do and the fact that a painting may only take a couple hours does not take into account the years of practice and schooling it took to get to be able to create it in the first place.
Been there once with a local arts and crafts fair, and wow is it insulting. I had plenty of people ooh and ahh over the gallery-wrap canvas acrylic paintings, then gasp about the pricing (which was set to give me minimum wage for the time put in, but not much above it - not a one was over $120) and walk away in a huff. All while I was sitting two or three feet away and able to hear every word. I'm not sure which is worse - "You charge too much" from a fandom that is used to rock-bottom pricing on commissions, or "I can get a generic, mass-produced framed print at Walmart for $20, so your original painting shouldn't be worth any more than that" from the general populace.
Sadly, this. Furries are actually one of the better crowds I've run across in terms of paying at least livable wage for freelance artwork.
Heck, I recently had a freaking company contact me about possibly producing some comic pages for them for an advertisement but their budget was only $100, which comes to a little over 8 hours at my $12/hour furry rate. When I work with companies I charge $15/hour instead, and I knew it would take me longer than that and quoted them higher; they decided to look elsewhere. I only quoted them $195. Sadly the internet is full of so many desperate artists that will work for next to nothing, so that happens. The number of ads I see looking for artists to work at a lo/no/deferred basis kind of sickens me.
And when it comes to internet niches, other fandoms are often much worse than furry. Prices on DA and Tumblr are abysmally low. I feel so damn lucky that the niche of the furry fandom exists. Not all furries may respect the time/work that goes into art, but at least a good number of them do, and it's a subculture that tends to revolve around art so that helps boost demand immensely.
tl;dr people everywhere try to shaft artists into working for less than their time is worth.
Heck, I recently had a freaking company contact me about possibly producing some comic pages for them for an advertisement but their budget was only $100, which comes to a little over 8 hours at my $12/hour furry rate. When I work with companies I charge $15/hour instead, and I knew it would take me longer than that and quoted them higher; they decided to look elsewhere. I only quoted them $195. Sadly the internet is full of so many desperate artists that will work for next to nothing, so that happens. The number of ads I see looking for artists to work at a lo/no/deferred basis kind of sickens me.
And when it comes to internet niches, other fandoms are often much worse than furry. Prices on DA and Tumblr are abysmally low. I feel so damn lucky that the niche of the furry fandom exists. Not all furries may respect the time/work that goes into art, but at least a good number of them do, and it's a subculture that tends to revolve around art so that helps boost demand immensely.
tl;dr people everywhere try to shaft artists into working for less than their time is worth.
Honestly, maybe it's just me but if I were coming over as maybe more expensive as I should, I would actually like people to tell me if I was. I mean don't get me wrong I wouldn't like if some was trying to rip me off but I kinda would wanna feel like I was ripping people off either and nor would I wanna price myself out of the market so to speak.......I guess it depends on the context in which it's said to me.
Artist are only over priced when they get no work. They set their own rates and if people agree with these rates for the quality they will pay it. If no one is willing to pay for the artists work for the price he/she has set than they have misunderstood the market/their own value.
Oh, I absolutely know what you mean! I frequently 'tip' after the fact when I get a commission, which is my way of saying 'You're not charging enough' without saying 'You're not charging enough'.
One could get into an interesting discussion here, I'll bet, as to whether the consistent pattern of underpricing among furry artists at all levels stunts the growth of the artistic culture overall...
- "Top" artists are overwhelmed with commission requests (more demand than supply)
- Artists from outside (the fandom) see no reason to jump in with their own services (they perceive it as not worth their time overall)
- Up-and-coming artists don't get the commissions they might because -- the folks that do have money stay up top
- The lower tier prices (call 'em the 'building a reputation' prices) are so low that 'minimum wage' doesn't describe how low the labor price is, de-incentivizing artists inside the fandom to jump in at all
Um...yeah, discuss?
It's something I've thought about though.
One could get into an interesting discussion here, I'll bet, as to whether the consistent pattern of underpricing among furry artists at all levels stunts the growth of the artistic culture overall...
- "Top" artists are overwhelmed with commission requests (more demand than supply)
- Artists from outside (the fandom) see no reason to jump in with their own services (they perceive it as not worth their time overall)
- Up-and-coming artists don't get the commissions they might because -- the folks that do have money stay up top
- The lower tier prices (call 'em the 'building a reputation' prices) are so low that 'minimum wage' doesn't describe how low the labor price is, de-incentivizing artists inside the fandom to jump in at all
Um...yeah, discuss?
It's something I've thought about though.
100% this.
The amount of comments i've seen re: this topic.....it drives me nuts!
I've increased my commission prices by £5 (and altered my price listings) because i feel as though i'm underselling myself (and my artwork has improved abit)
The last commission i worked took me at least 3-4 days and working on it 4/5 hours a day (beforehand i did abit of research on wolf expressions and tutorials): and the commission was £30.
If people don't like XYZ artist's prices, then press the back button and move on; its not that hard.
The amount of comments i've seen re: this topic.....it drives me nuts!
I've increased my commission prices by £5 (and altered my price listings) because i feel as though i'm underselling myself (and my artwork has improved abit)
The last commission i worked took me at least 3-4 days and working on it 4/5 hours a day (beforehand i did abit of research on wolf expressions and tutorials): and the commission was £30.
If people don't like XYZ artist's prices, then press the back button and move on; its not that hard.
no one ever seems to think of the time that is taken out of your day to do THEIR art,or the material costs or how much of a challange something is to make...by paw! I thinkt of that must because people can go and buy whatever they want at a store these days whenever they want it. kinda sad really
It's all in how you word things, too. The attitude you present to an artist makes a huge difference.
For instance, guy A asked for a price quote, which I gave. He told me flat out I was charging too much (even though I've successfully sold many at that price before) and asked me why it was so "expensive". I told him about how it takes many hours of skilled labor to create, and that I pay taxes on everything I make, paypal fees take a big chunk of it too, etc. He got a horrible attitude and accused me of not answering his question and was generally extremely hostile towards me, which was not making me want to work with him at all. I deleted all his emails because they were upsetting and he obviously only wanted to fight.
Now, guy B comes as asks me about a price quote. He was surprised at the price and asked me politely why my quote was so high. I answered his question with all the information I have guy A, though it was much less stressful to do so because of guy B's wording. Guy B understood better why I have to charge what I do, and asked if there was anything that could be done to lower the price. We negotiated a bit and I found a way to lower the quote for him. His politeness and patience really made me more inclined to want to help him find a solution! In the end it was still too much for him to justify spending, which is fine, it was a rather tall order after all. Our negotiations were on very good terms, even though in the end he didn't end up buying anything.
Three guesses which kind of person I like dealing with more!
For instance, guy A asked for a price quote, which I gave. He told me flat out I was charging too much (even though I've successfully sold many at that price before) and asked me why it was so "expensive". I told him about how it takes many hours of skilled labor to create, and that I pay taxes on everything I make, paypal fees take a big chunk of it too, etc. He got a horrible attitude and accused me of not answering his question and was generally extremely hostile towards me, which was not making me want to work with him at all. I deleted all his emails because they were upsetting and he obviously only wanted to fight.
Now, guy B comes as asks me about a price quote. He was surprised at the price and asked me politely why my quote was so high. I answered his question with all the information I have guy A, though it was much less stressful to do so because of guy B's wording. Guy B understood better why I have to charge what I do, and asked if there was anything that could be done to lower the price. We negotiated a bit and I found a way to lower the quote for him. His politeness and patience really made me more inclined to want to help him find a solution! In the end it was still too much for him to justify spending, which is fine, it was a rather tall order after all. Our negotiations were on very good terms, even though in the end he didn't end up buying anything.
Three guesses which kind of person I like dealing with more!
I also don't think it's anyone's place to tell an artist they are "overpriced", unless the artist specifically asks.
If an artist really is charging beyond their skill level/popularity, they just won't get any bites and figure it out on their own soon enough and then either:
1. Increase the quality of the product/service
2. Advertise their work to new clients
3. Lower prices
4. Find a different job
Or some combination thereof. Either way, it doesn't affect someone who isn't interested in buying something anyway, so keep your negativity to yourself.
If an artist really is charging beyond their skill level/popularity, they just won't get any bites and figure it out on their own soon enough and then either:
1. Increase the quality of the product/service
2. Advertise their work to new clients
3. Lower prices
4. Find a different job
Or some combination thereof. Either way, it doesn't affect someone who isn't interested in buying something anyway, so keep your negativity to yourself.
When I was a youngin' I dated this guy who was in an art college. And he would price his commissions at 40$+ and he almost never got commissioned, and I always thought it was kind of pricey (but I was young and didn't have the concept of money that comes with having bills and such). Now I 100% understand that, with the level of time it takes to make what he was making (a very detailed sketch flat colored then shaded in photoshop), 40$ was god-damn giving it away.
I'd also like to point out to everyone using the industry standard argument, is that a very large chunk of furries would not make it in "the industry." They don't draw well enough, or fast enough, or act professionally enough, or whatever else. There are definitely furries out there who ARE completely comparable to "industry standard," but they're usually also the ones who also charge "industry standard" prices.
I get this all the time. It's like, why even say it. That would be like a gorgeous person telling you when you're single "I'd totally date you, if I could." Telling someone that you'd buy their work if you could is ridiculous---- it's one of those things I think people shouldn't say at all.
I don't recall the url - but there was a brilliant article about the pricing of artwork in the commercial business world.
In it there was a comparison to the prices set by amateurs online.
If we began to take the actually agreed upon fees for our artwork, the people online would swoon with shock.
In it there was a comparison to the prices set by amateurs online.
If we began to take the actually agreed upon fees for our artwork, the people online would swoon with shock.
Is it rude? yes
But as a consumer I have every right to tell you your prices are too high(tho I would never do this myself personally...I'm to big of a pushover). If i wanted too I can walk right up to Wal-Mart find a manage and tell them their prices are too high.
The artist just like the manager of that Wal-Mart should just laugh and say "Ok" and ignore that costumer.
But as a consumer I have every right to tell you your prices are too high(tho I would never do this myself personally...I'm to big of a pushover). If i wanted too I can walk right up to Wal-Mart find a manage and tell them their prices are too high.
The artist just like the manager of that Wal-Mart should just laugh and say "Ok" and ignore that costumer.
Except art isnt like anything sold at walmart. That managers didnt spend hours putting together that TV or weaving those towels. its a lot more PERSONAL than being the manager of a crappy discount store. So no, as a consumer you really dont have a right to tell someone how much YOU think their time is worth.
actually a consumer does have every right to complain about something about a product they don't like (at least in the country I'm currently residing in)...It's still VERY rude and shitty but It's not against any rules/laws telling me them they can't tell you what they think your time is worth. Admittedly only an Asshole would walk up too an ARTIST (somebody who sets their own prices based on how much they think it's worth) and tell them their prices are too high.
The Artist ALSO has the right to put said asshole on a Ignore list and move on with their day. Which they TOTALLY should.
But as a somebody dealing with and making things for the general (furry) public you have to be ready for Assholes and not be upset by them...your GOING to find them whenever you work with large groups of people and money is involved. I've worked Retail far too many times to not expect the worse from people nowadays...and been told how the stupid system of as long the Customer doesn't break anything or threaten anyone he can do pretty much as he pleases
The Artist ALSO has the right to put said asshole on a Ignore list and move on with their day. Which they TOTALLY should.
But as a somebody dealing with and making things for the general (furry) public you have to be ready for Assholes and not be upset by them...your GOING to find them whenever you work with large groups of people and money is involved. I've worked Retail far too many times to not expect the worse from people nowadays...and been told how the stupid system of as long the Customer doesn't break anything or threaten anyone he can do pretty much as he pleases
THUS why this was MADE to inform people that that shit's rude. SO I AM GLAD WE AGREE.
also I have every RIGHT to be upset by assholes, thats not my job as an artist. I wasn't put here to withstand abuse from some kid with no allowance. AGAIN retail and art is two different things. Think of an artist as a PERSON preforming a service that results in a product. Treat that person KINDLY and you get good results, treat them poorly and expect to be black listed by them and all their artist friends.
also I have every RIGHT to be upset by assholes, thats not my job as an artist. I wasn't put here to withstand abuse from some kid with no allowance. AGAIN retail and art is two different things. Think of an artist as a PERSON preforming a service that results in a product. Treat that person KINDLY and you get good results, treat them poorly and expect to be black listed by them and all their artist friends.
omg THANK YOU!!! I had this one person who I thought was my friend harp on, nag and bitch at me about my prices because he couldn't afford anything from me, then he'd turn right around and try to get me to draw him something for free. Hah think again. He finally exploded on me and said I put myself up on a pedestal to rob people of their money for my overly expensive art. Pretty clear that 'friendship' was over then.
xD
xD
I kind of agree with this yet I kind of don't. XD It feels weird. Sometimes I do see people selling their art and the rage when it never gets bought and the reason why is obvious...no one is going to pay even $15 for something that is poorly done. -facepalm- Yet it IS true that some people just get butthurt over prices because they can't afford it. Hrmm....-stuck in middle- -chintap-
There's only been two cases where I felt an artist was overpricing their stuff. There was a ych auction where it was your fursona eating ramen. It would be a rough sketch with flat coloring, and the artist started the bid at $150. In my opinion, it was asking too much for the quality given. The second case is an artist who's cheapest possible commission is still over $400. I got something of similar quality for only $100. It's not ignorant to look at art and say "that's overpriced;" it's simply a matter of opinion (or sometimes fact). Granted it is totally rude to tell the artist that.
Oh yeah. moments like those are where an 'overpriced complaint' would be valid, cuz $150 for a rough flat colored sketch, you could also factor in time, for the individual, but really if your doing paid work like that, at that quality and price, when I've seen people do full body characters at that price, fully painted and done in a short amount of time. It really makes you think.
I even think a while ago, there was a partially infamous artist who did really good art, but it was INSANELY priced... like... in the thousands XP
I even think a while ago, there was a partially infamous artist who did really good art, but it was INSANELY priced... like... in the thousands XP
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