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More from Jasonafex
Another comic written by me and illustrated by 
Kabier, last one being a bit more light hearted
Here's the Twitter version if you want to RT it!
Kabier, last one being a bit more light heartedHere's the Twitter version if you want to RT it!
Category All / All
Species Unspecified / Any
Size 900 x 900px
File Size 688.6 kB
It's a commentary on the divisive nature of the political landscape and how it's affecting even us, the fur community. We've always been one of the most inclusive and welcoming communities out there... But conflicting political ideas are the one thing that seem to fracture our community... and it's only getting worse...
Here's the breakdown:
Blue analogous to Democrat
Red analogous to Republican
A Blue suggests being inclusive to Reds like it used to be. Other Blues then label the Blue as a Red and gets ostracized.
I don't entirely agree with it, but there is a bit of that going on today. Mostly involving people who make every issue a political one and ruin family get-togethers because they can't stop talking politics :P
Blue analogous to Democrat
Red analogous to Republican
A Blue suggests being inclusive to Reds like it used to be. Other Blues then label the Blue as a Red and gets ostracized.
I don't entirely agree with it, but there is a bit of that going on today. Mostly involving people who make every issue a political one and ruin family get-togethers because they can't stop talking politics :P
Here a possible conversation:
Wolf: Ugh! Another alt-right fur. They shouldn't be allowed in the fandom.
Lion: Hey, it wasn't very long ago, that everyone was accepted and we got along fine.
Wolf: I knew it! You're alt-right just like them!
Wolf: Hey, everyone! Here's another alt-right fur to shun!
Wolf: Ugh! Another alt-right fur. They shouldn't be allowed in the fandom.
Lion: Hey, it wasn't very long ago, that everyone was accepted and we got along fine.
Wolf: I knew it! You're alt-right just like them!
Wolf: Hey, everyone! Here's another alt-right fur to shun!
I mean, nazis, fascists, and assorted bigots have no place in an inclusive fandom, because that runs contrary to the entire ideal of exclusivity. It's the paradox of tolerance: Tolerating everything will result in intolerant people overwhelming the community and driving out everybody who's tolerant.
Inclusiveness doesn't have to mean endorsement. Keeping lines of conversation open instead of shutting people down is key, because if there are some people you're willing to straight up shut down, then all you have to do is apply that label, rightly or not, to people you disagree with just because you want to shut them down anyway. And that itself borders on fascism.
*See South Park Season 6 Episode 14 "The Death Camp of Tolerance"
Garrison: "This kind of behavior should not be acceptable from a teacher!"
Random Guy Alluding to 70's movie: "But the museum teaches us to be tol-o-rent."
Garrison: "Tolerant but not stupid! Just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it. Otherwise it'd be called the museum of acceptance. Tolerate just means you put up with it... it can still piss you off, Jesus tap-dancing Christ!"
Garrison: "This kind of behavior should not be acceptable from a teacher!"
Random Guy Alluding to 70's movie: "But the museum teaches us to be tol-o-rent."
Garrison: "Tolerant but not stupid! Just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it. Otherwise it'd be called the museum of acceptance. Tolerate just means you put up with it... it can still piss you off, Jesus tap-dancing Christ!"
The course gave a low groan is member jolting several times twitching with the canines attention giving a nether growl he pushed his head herder against the blue canines crotch working the knots around in his mouth as he vigorously fingered the tight blue backside every so often his hips, giving a nice powerful shove of warning of a impending explosion.
It's a commentary on the divisive nature of the political landscape and how it's affecting even us, the fur community. We've always been one of the most inclusive and welcoming communities out there... But conflicting political ideas are the one thing that seem to fracture our community... and it's only getting worse...
It IS blue con though. Silly cat, All Con is next month.
What is red shirt guy doing here!
Seriously uncool of blue shirt wolf to destroy the blue shirt belonging to idealist cat.
Why are those other two blue shirt furs giving them the stink eye, did they not just see blue shirt wolf splash them with paint?!
I seriously hope that blue shirt wolf plans on replacing that destroyed property. Getting arbiters involved is such a headache.
What is red shirt guy doing here!
Seriously uncool of blue shirt wolf to destroy the blue shirt belonging to idealist cat.
Why are those other two blue shirt furs giving them the stink eye, did they not just see blue shirt wolf splash them with paint?!
I seriously hope that blue shirt wolf plans on replacing that destroyed property. Getting arbiters involved is such a headache.
Not like it changes a thing. Division, be it gender, race, sexuality, disability, religion, politics, basically anything someone can try say is superior or lesser, is always going to be a pissing match. The entire human race loves to fight over who's the special boy, who's the unique little snowflake who HAS to be in the right, who HAS to win and be the fuckin' Highlander cos there can be only one massive cunt atop the pile of corpses they amast in their little bitch fit.
Everybody is the same. You bleed the same, die the same, rot the same, all have a grave to dance on. The sooner everyone learns to stop fighting over who has the biggest dick, the sooner my headache clears up.
Now, maybe if you spiced up this constant fighting with free booze, baby oil and sexual themes, I'd be less pissed off.....
Everybody is the same. You bleed the same, die the same, rot the same, all have a grave to dance on. The sooner everyone learns to stop fighting over who has the biggest dick, the sooner my headache clears up.
Now, maybe if you spiced up this constant fighting with free booze, baby oil and sexual themes, I'd be less pissed off.....
I was notified of a reply, and find that they are hidden. I assume they were trolling or as you put it the kind of behavior.
I have heard a bit of policy change for FA, so they can ban people that seem to be on the mind set of the right. I don't know much about it, But I hope they don't go all crazy on you for this tame and truthful comic.
I have heard a bit of policy change for FA, so they can ban people that seem to be on the mind set of the right. I don't know much about it, But I hope they don't go all crazy on you for this tame and truthful comic.
A guy was replying to every single comment shouting 'Racism!'. Had to block him so people can actually leave opinions.
Honestly if this comic goes against FA rules then there's something seriously wrong. I didn't join this community to masturbate my political beliefs in an echo-chamber.
Honestly if this comic goes against FA rules then there's something seriously wrong. I didn't join this community to masturbate my political beliefs in an echo-chamber.
And he was being serious about racism? *face palm*
I would not put it past many of these big companies. I seen many times when they shape everything into what you say, an echo-chamber. I thought the left was all about acceptance and diversity, but right now it just seems to want to separate people out into pools of stagnation. :( wish it would all just end.
I would not put it past many of these big companies. I seen many times when they shape everything into what you say, an echo-chamber. I thought the left was all about acceptance and diversity, but right now it just seems to want to separate people out into pools of stagnation. :( wish it would all just end.
I'm looking forward to post-postmodernism so fucking hard. Not just in people's personal philosophy but also in art and entertainment. It's such an optimistic philosophy. While post-modernism is an interesting concept in art it certainly leads to many problems when applied to people and social issues, in my opinion.
*Examines keywords - which are very informative in this case - and attempts to explain without bias*
This appears to be a political comic generally implying Furry conventions in have become 'Democrat Furry Conventions' with Blue shirts representing democratic/liberal ideals, where republican/conservative ideals ()red shirt people) are not welcome. Somebody who self-identifies with the liberal (blue shirt) ideals expresses remembering that back when (represented by 2010 'All Con') all the ideals were welcome and happy together. The other liberal ideal people then decree that he is conservative/republican (painting his shirt red) and is now unwelcome.
This appears to be a political comic generally implying Furry conventions in have become 'Democrat Furry Conventions' with Blue shirts representing democratic/liberal ideals, where republican/conservative ideals ()red shirt people) are not welcome. Somebody who self-identifies with the liberal (blue shirt) ideals expresses remembering that back when (represented by 2010 'All Con') all the ideals were welcome and happy together. The other liberal ideal people then decree that he is conservative/republican (painting his shirt red) and is now unwelcome.
I like how there's people calling out use of the n-word in these comments and yet the one thing I've noticed is that it's mostly the dems/ leftists using racial slurs if not on social media than in public when they think they're safe. And they always give the most garbage reason for it like "I'm not saying to be racist", "I'm not using it with the hard R", "I have a black friend and they're cool with me saying it", or my personal fave "yeah but I'm :insert political affiliation: so you can't say I'm racist".
Then that mentality carries into this fandom and no one calls it out. They let it go until it's some popufur who's fallen out of favor with the community and then everyone rushes the chance to virtue signal over the popufur's loss of face. If people using the n-word in this community meant so much to you why don't you call it out on less popular channels, groups, users, Twitch streamers, Youtubers, fursuiters, artists, musicians, or everyone around you?
Then that mentality carries into this fandom and no one calls it out. They let it go until it's some popufur who's fallen out of favor with the community and then everyone rushes the chance to virtue signal over the popufur's loss of face. If people using the n-word in this community meant so much to you why don't you call it out on less popular channels, groups, users, Twitch streamers, Youtubers, fursuiters, artists, musicians, or everyone around you?
It's no different from calling your detractors transphobic, sexist, child abusive, Nazis, bullies etc. Straw-man tactics is just their bread and butter. It's why they insist to TELL you what your beliefs are, rather then listen to anything you actually have to say.
Those screaming profanities in the comment section fit right into the bill of what I'm depicting in this comic. They're desperately trying to throw paint around to cover up the fact they want to control people.
Those screaming profanities in the comment section fit right into the bill of what I'm depicting in this comic. They're desperately trying to throw paint around to cover up the fact they want to control people.
This is the problem with witch hunts.
If no witches are found the crazies/assholes will simple make one up by accusing someone.
Left,Right Liberal,Conservative, democrat or republican This has got to stop.
Let the chairpeople of conventions know that this vocal minority can destroy a con just as easily as any other controversy.
If no witches are found the crazies/assholes will simple make one up by accusing someone.
Left,Right Liberal,Conservative, democrat or republican This has got to stop.
Let the chairpeople of conventions know that this vocal minority can destroy a con just as easily as any other controversy.
Meanwhile, at Red Con, a Blue Shirt shows up and is beaten and sent to the ER. A Red Shirt insists they try to go back to how things were at All Con, everyone politely nods and agrees - where has the civility gone, they wonder, as they wash the Blue Shirt's blood from their hands.
To be clear, I see from digging into links that this relates back to Pepper and your interactions. I don't get into furry drama or often pay much attention to an artist beyond their art (I'd never even heard of Pepper before) so I don't know your views and am not commenting on them. What I'm saying is that, in my own personal experience, which I do not pretend is representative of any particular group of people or views, those calling for "can't we all just get along" are the ones who have done the most harm and just want other people to get over / forget that. Maybe that's you, maybe it's not, I don't really know - but if you're going to argue that you wish conventions and the fandom at large were less political, you're not going to achieve that by making what is, in essence, a political (or at least politically charged) cartoon.
Maybe you should put in the effort to actually inform and educate yourself before forming opinions. Your 'red con' scenario doesn't exist, that's why there is this witch-hunt mentality in the first place.
When was the last time someone was assaulted at a furry con for being liberal?
When was the last time someone was assaulted at a furry con for being liberal?
"Maybe you should put in the effort to actually inform and educate yourself before forming opinions. Your 'red con' scenario doesn't exist, that's why there is this witch-hunt mentality in the first place."
Or maybe I'm forming an opinion based on information you've made available? And as you yourself say in the video, people are free to ignore certain parts of your public persona, so I mostly know you by your art and not your political views? Which is why I weighed in with the disclaimer in the first place?
Also, you're right, Red Con does not exist. But Blue Con also does not exist, if we're keeping this topic about the fandom and not political organizations - what you paint in this comic would be... god I dunno, Democrat Furry Con, which *looks* yeah, not a thing. You seem to be upset that people of one particular group (in this case the furry fandom) tend to lean one way politically and shout down opposition. That's a valid argument and I agree that shouting down someone for thinking different shouldn't happen (I would've liked you and Pepper to be able to have a more moderated debate and for him to not interrupt you constantly, that was rude and not at all constructive), but you've confused your messaging by portraying it as "Blue Con". Like... that's one step removed from a Democratic primary, and is not at all what happened to you. You went somewhere that a person with a following publicly, loudly disagreed with you, and you got mobbed. That sucks, it totally does, it shouldn't have happened that way, but that's not what you've drawn here.
"When was the last time someone was assaulted at a furry con for being liberal?"
I thought we were speaking in hyperbole to make a rhetorical argument. When was the last time someone had red paint thrown on them for suggesting inclusivity?
Or maybe I'm forming an opinion based on information you've made available? And as you yourself say in the video, people are free to ignore certain parts of your public persona, so I mostly know you by your art and not your political views? Which is why I weighed in with the disclaimer in the first place?
Also, you're right, Red Con does not exist. But Blue Con also does not exist, if we're keeping this topic about the fandom and not political organizations - what you paint in this comic would be... god I dunno, Democrat Furry Con, which *looks* yeah, not a thing. You seem to be upset that people of one particular group (in this case the furry fandom) tend to lean one way politically and shout down opposition. That's a valid argument and I agree that shouting down someone for thinking different shouldn't happen (I would've liked you and Pepper to be able to have a more moderated debate and for him to not interrupt you constantly, that was rude and not at all constructive), but you've confused your messaging by portraying it as "Blue Con". Like... that's one step removed from a Democratic primary, and is not at all what happened to you. You went somewhere that a person with a following publicly, loudly disagreed with you, and you got mobbed. That sucks, it totally does, it shouldn't have happened that way, but that's not what you've drawn here.
"When was the last time someone was assaulted at a furry con for being liberal?"
I thought we were speaking in hyperbole to make a rhetorical argument. When was the last time someone had red paint thrown on them for suggesting inclusivity?
Eeeeeexcept not really? I don't know where you're getting your statistics but hate crimes (which is to say targeting someone because of their beliefs, status, or demographics) are by FAR more often aimed at minority groups. While not comprehensive description of the political spectrum, those on the right (which would align with Republicans, represented by the color red in the US) tend to be white, Christian, heterosexual males. ( http://www.people-press.org/2018/03.....raphic-groups/ ) Are people targeted for being white, Christian, heterosexual males? Yes, absolutely - but not nearly to the degree POC, the LGBT* community, non-Christian faiths, and females. I don't know where you get your numbers from "a simple search" but here are some numbers from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2016/tables/table-1
You are making a broad generalizations for what is a furry topic. Conventions are bleeding into extreme politics in a way I strongly disagree with. The crusade against 'Nazi-furs' at conventions such as AC is honestly asinine. Witch-hunts are leading to false flags so they actually have enemies to justify the dogma. Those seeking power and fame are framing themselves as minority groups in order to cast immunity to accountability. 'You just hate X if you criticise me as an individual!' It's not new, and it's not sustainable.
I see far more discrimination in this community then I ever see in general public.
I see far more discrimination in this community then I ever see in general public.
I didn't say that furries can't broach politics or shouldn't, I was just trying to point out that the logic of "There is no Red Con" would apply to your comic as well. Anthrocon, BLFC, Further Confusion, etc. don't identify themselves by the politics of their attendees, ie. there is no "Blue Con" either.
I can't speak to your discrimination as I haven't witnessed it, and telling my own experiences would be just as anecdotal (and therefore, non-constructive). What I'm curious about is, if you genuinely feel like the community is too political, if you don't like politics getting in the furry community, why are you engaging with the people who try to push it? Legit question, not trying to be snarky or anything.
I can't speak to your discrimination as I haven't witnessed it, and telling my own experiences would be just as anecdotal (and therefore, non-constructive). What I'm curious about is, if you genuinely feel like the community is too political, if you don't like politics getting in the furry community, why are you engaging with the people who try to push it? Legit question, not trying to be snarky or anything.
The 'blue con' banner was moreso to create a simplified example of a changed climate from something inclusive and tolerant to something political. 'All con' isn't a real thing either. To take the names literally, is missing the point that it's an abstract way of explaining that this behavior isn't exclusive to the characters within the panels, but a growing trend over time.
If the comic is in reference to a single event, it would be more literal. Many people I have met and known have an over-arching fear to make opinions on really anything, or else risk being ostracized by their friend groups for not conforming to politics. 'Not caring' is identified the same as 'being problematic'. The simple answer is 'Well then those people clearly aren't your friends', but it's not that easy for people to step away from their social groups. The end result is whats depicted here.
If the comic is in reference to a single event, it would be more literal. Many people I have met and known have an over-arching fear to make opinions on really anything, or else risk being ostracized by their friend groups for not conforming to politics. 'Not caring' is identified the same as 'being problematic'. The simple answer is 'Well then those people clearly aren't your friends', but it's not that easy for people to step away from their social groups. The end result is whats depicted here.
That makes more sense - my impression was that this was specifically referring to what happened between you and Pepper at AC. But to clarify, I wasn't taking the names any more literally than you were in your replies. That's why my first response was so hyperbolic.
Unsolicited critique: When making a political cartoon (which is, in essence, what you've done here) you need to make it absolutely clear who, in the abstract, represents whom, and what the inspiration for the comic is. I don't think you quite succeeded in that here if you're trying to show a general trend that isn't limited to your experience re: politics.
Respectfully, I'm still not sure what your end goal is here. Do you want there to be less politics in the fandom, period? Or do you want people to be able to express their political opinions without feeling penalized or ostracized? Your replies here would suggest the former, but your comic (and what I could gleam from your Twitter) would suggest the latter, and those are quite different goals.
Unsolicited critique: When making a political cartoon (which is, in essence, what you've done here) you need to make it absolutely clear who, in the abstract, represents whom, and what the inspiration for the comic is. I don't think you quite succeeded in that here if you're trying to show a general trend that isn't limited to your experience re: politics.
Respectfully, I'm still not sure what your end goal is here. Do you want there to be less politics in the fandom, period? Or do you want people to be able to express their political opinions without feeling penalized or ostracized? Your replies here would suggest the former, but your comic (and what I could gleam from your Twitter) would suggest the latter, and those are quite different goals.
what if it was a Buddhist swastika, meaning peace? That's where the symbol came from originally and is still used.
And any time I ever seen anything about Nazis. It was always a joke. Nazis are a laughing stock. I mean good you don't accept Nazi ideals. but its bad if you go around and assume everyone is a Nazi, least you become a Nazi yourself. :(
And any time I ever seen anything about Nazis. It was always a joke. Nazis are a laughing stock. I mean good you don't accept Nazi ideals. but its bad if you go around and assume everyone is a Nazi, least you become a Nazi yourself. :(
I mentioned once I was against the hillery suppers because of all the hate violence, I see the shattering of windows that starting of fires I live near to Berkeley which is a hot spot of hate. It does not even seem like rational hate it’s hate for the sake of hate. What’s worse is they claim to be inclusive, I mean seriously they put up a sign on a place that says everyone is welcome but you better not go in that place with a Trump hat. By the way I am a libertarian so I do not necessarily support any massive government programs neither mass deportations nor mass government health care, the average death rate for curable conditions is up for all age groups ever since the affordable care act... why it does not work, well it’s pure logic, government red tape and the fact the quality of care depends on the number and quality of doctors, you suddenly flush the health care system with more people and more rules and paper work the quality only goes down.
You want better cheaper health care the solution is obviously get more and better trained doctors and better/more medical equipment. Not more rules and more sick people fromacross the border, by the way we need to do something about that, it’s nice to let people in but we have this thing called infrastructure and well it can only handle so many.
You know, there's a nuanced point to be made about how shunning people doesn't change their opinion, doesn't stop them from voting the way they do, how evil politicians are not the people that were duped into voting for them, and how keeping those folks as your friend means you may eventually change their mind. (Or not, but in the meantime you've got another friend.) And how, especially in a place like furry which has always and probably will always lean significantly left***, excluding those people prevents them from being exposed to opposing viewpoints and only accomplishes making the fandom more exclusionary (assuming they weren't going around being dickbags about it, which is different), even if in good meaning. But that's not the point I want to make.
***Compared to the mean in the United States
I kind of feel like the reason 'furs on the whole' tolerated more conservative types in the past was because the fandom was built on accepting each others' flaws. It's no secret a lot of furs came to the fandom at least in part because they were ostracized in life, and part of the appeal for the majority of the fandom's history was not only "feeling" furry since before you knew what the word furry meant, but the fact we were all in it together due to that ostracization, and we made this the one place where you didn't have to feel judged, for anything.
If you were gay in the 90s, when people sincerely believed ridiculous things about gay people like this, that didn't matter here. Some people might have been uncomfortable, and yes, there were also those who were homophobic dickbags. But they were few, and in a general sense you didn't have to worry about being gay here. If you liked weird erotica or were extremely socially awkward, same thing. There's always been a line to cross, but nobody was gonna judge you for being too enthusiastic to talk to someone back then. There's a difference between unwanted talking and harassment, and unwanted touching and unwanted touching below the belt, but if you didn't really mean or do anything wrong no one cared.
Now I don't know why, but I've noticed some of the conservative types in the fandom are really… strange about it. Like, gay Republican furries during that time when being gay was still controversial. I don't know how to explain that very well beyond that, but with that in mind, I feel like furs saw other furs like that and just wrote it off as another one of their flaws - not something you should judge them for.
And don't get me wrong, there are definitely some who just don't deserve to be in our community, at all. But I don't think a lot of those people who are being kicked out are it - some, but not all. And the very act of wanting to "kick people out" kind of betrays that foundation so much of the fandom was built on, doesn't it? I know you can't tolerate the intolerant, but to me there's a difference between believing something dumb for dumb reasons, and actually being a bigot. Gay Republican Furries back in the Bush years were still Gay.
And yet still there was this feeling that if you'd be judged yourself anywhere else, what gives you the right to judge others here? That mindset lets some bad people slip through the cracks, sure, but paradoxically that was also what let so many rejected but well-meaning people find a home here. To see the people saying "Maybe we shouldn't be so judgmental during these heated times" be themselves tarred and feathered as well just feels like throwing out that tolerance and acceptance. After all, if they're still on the "blue" side politically, what argument do you have that they're a red? At worst, you might say the fact they're arguing in favor of "the enemy" in spite of not being one just means that they're… flawed. Flawed in judgment, or too forgiving. So couldn't you say they're being excluded for their flaws when you paint them red, when they're clearly not red?
It's all just so sad to see.
***Compared to the mean in the United States
I kind of feel like the reason 'furs on the whole' tolerated more conservative types in the past was because the fandom was built on accepting each others' flaws. It's no secret a lot of furs came to the fandom at least in part because they were ostracized in life, and part of the appeal for the majority of the fandom's history was not only "feeling" furry since before you knew what the word furry meant, but the fact we were all in it together due to that ostracization, and we made this the one place where you didn't have to feel judged, for anything.
If you were gay in the 90s, when people sincerely believed ridiculous things about gay people like this, that didn't matter here. Some people might have been uncomfortable, and yes, there were also those who were homophobic dickbags. But they were few, and in a general sense you didn't have to worry about being gay here. If you liked weird erotica or were extremely socially awkward, same thing. There's always been a line to cross, but nobody was gonna judge you for being too enthusiastic to talk to someone back then. There's a difference between unwanted talking and harassment, and unwanted touching and unwanted touching below the belt, but if you didn't really mean or do anything wrong no one cared.
Now I don't know why, but I've noticed some of the conservative types in the fandom are really… strange about it. Like, gay Republican furries during that time when being gay was still controversial. I don't know how to explain that very well beyond that, but with that in mind, I feel like furs saw other furs like that and just wrote it off as another one of their flaws - not something you should judge them for.
And don't get me wrong, there are definitely some who just don't deserve to be in our community, at all. But I don't think a lot of those people who are being kicked out are it - some, but not all. And the very act of wanting to "kick people out" kind of betrays that foundation so much of the fandom was built on, doesn't it? I know you can't tolerate the intolerant, but to me there's a difference between believing something dumb for dumb reasons, and actually being a bigot. Gay Republican Furries back in the Bush years were still Gay.
And yet still there was this feeling that if you'd be judged yourself anywhere else, what gives you the right to judge others here? That mindset lets some bad people slip through the cracks, sure, but paradoxically that was also what let so many rejected but well-meaning people find a home here. To see the people saying "Maybe we shouldn't be so judgmental during these heated times" be themselves tarred and feathered as well just feels like throwing out that tolerance and acceptance. After all, if they're still on the "blue" side politically, what argument do you have that they're a red? At worst, you might say the fact they're arguing in favor of "the enemy" in spite of not being one just means that they're… flawed. Flawed in judgment, or too forgiving. So couldn't you say they're being excluded for their flaws when you paint them red, when they're clearly not red?
It's all just so sad to see.
Beautifully articulated, thank-you for your perspective! I agree full-heatedly. These kinds of politics just put a giant lump in my heart. There are psychopaths and sociopaths yes, but we have to acknowledge statistics; 3-5% of the population at best. The odds of more then half the population basing their judgement on hate and intolerance is just flat out wrong. The majority of disagreements are easily settled via mutual respect and understanding. If someone has an opinion different from yours, ask them fair questions if you feel you are missing pieces. If you understand someone, it's difficult to hate them.
Many are willing to throw accusations and labels around, but few want to put in the effort to ask why people may have different opinions than them to begin with. It's a far more effective persuasion technique to communicate and empathize others then it is to demonize them. Resentment and betrayal is often the reason people fall radical in the first place. Witch-hunts on behalf of Social Justice achieve little more then turn all those in it's wake the other way. Often it's those completely unwilling to budge their beliefs that are the sociopaths to begin with.
I'm disliked by a small portion of the community for a very simple reason, they don't understand my world view. Success, relationship and fame seem completely unfair, the easy answer is to assume it was built upon cheating and being malicious. With some wisdom, that kind of lifestyle flat out isn't sustainable long-term. I have my achievements from hard work, growing as a person and having the integrity to always be honest, kind and compassionate to those around me. Keep that up across the course of years and it's quite easy to become liked and respected by multitudes of people.
Many are willing to throw accusations and labels around, but few want to put in the effort to ask why people may have different opinions than them to begin with. It's a far more effective persuasion technique to communicate and empathize others then it is to demonize them. Resentment and betrayal is often the reason people fall radical in the first place. Witch-hunts on behalf of Social Justice achieve little more then turn all those in it's wake the other way. Often it's those completely unwilling to budge their beliefs that are the sociopaths to begin with.
I'm disliked by a small portion of the community for a very simple reason, they don't understand my world view. Success, relationship and fame seem completely unfair, the easy answer is to assume it was built upon cheating and being malicious. With some wisdom, that kind of lifestyle flat out isn't sustainable long-term. I have my achievements from hard work, growing as a person and having the integrity to always be honest, kind and compassionate to those around me. Keep that up across the course of years and it's quite easy to become liked and respected by multitudes of people.
This is way more effort than this comic deserves. It's a well thought out post about what does being inclusive mean. However, this post and this comic overlooks what has happened on a larger scale since either time stated (2000-2007; 2010). You can rattle off a whole list of events that shifted the Overton window in Liberal ideology (but also in general). We can start with honest to god white supremacists coming out of the woodwork because of Trump. People from Islamic nations being banned from coming to the US (failed multiple times and then upheld), every variation of PermitPatty, #MeToo, The ever growing list of abuses by those with authority. It's not very hard to see why those threatened by the majority are on the defensive.
As more injustices are brought to light, why defend someone that actively wants to harm your supposed compatriots? If someone believes, for example. that being colored makes them subhuman, why defend them? Why give them an avenue to broadcast their, in your words, "flawed" beliefs? Why tolerate them? To say you're more tolerant than someone else? What and who you tolerate also defines you as a person.
This is way more effort than this comic deserves because arguments for "the good ole days" are dumb and ignore the current political climes.
As more injustices are brought to light, why defend someone that actively wants to harm your supposed compatriots? If someone believes, for example. that being colored makes them subhuman, why defend them? Why give them an avenue to broadcast their, in your words, "flawed" beliefs? Why tolerate them? To say you're more tolerant than someone else? What and who you tolerate also defines you as a person.
This is way more effort than this comic deserves because arguments for "the good ole days" are dumb and ignore the current political climes.
Because again, those that actually hold those extreme, racist beliefs are such a minority it's difficult to tell if they even attend recent conventions. It has moreso devolved into an intolerance of ANY opposing ideology, rather then any fairly deemed discriminatory, harmful or unproductive. People are so flooded with resentment they will fabricate enemies if none are present.
You're right that a silly comic like this doesn't merit a well thought out reply, but I like to write, so I did one anyway :P Besides, part of the point of making something like this is to start discussion. Even if this isn't the best place to do so, where else are people going to talk about any of this?
I definitely agree things are bad and getting worse, far worse than they have any right to be, but it's like I said in my original post: Evil politicians are not the same people that were duped into voting for them.
There's definitely a far worse movement out there now than the 'typical' Republican from say a decade ago, though. Like I also said, there's a line to be crossed. In your example of someone believing other races are lesser, that crosses that line and I feel no sympathy for someone's dumb ass being kicked out for that. It's the right thing to do for everyone's sake, by that point.
But there are people out there who are just confused, or duped, and believe dumb things even though they'd be better off not believing them. Some of them won't ever be convinced otherwise, yes. It all depends on the individual circumstance. So to me, the bar for kicking someone out is "Is this person a bigot, or are they causing trouble? If not, they can stay. If they cross the line, out."
All the horrible things going on, to me, I think opposing the people doing it directly instead of attacking other citizens would do better to stop it. I agree that opposing voting for Trump et. al. is one way to get them out of office, but what does alienating the actual people who voted for Trump do? They're a little less than half the country. They're still going to do it again whether or not they're kicked out, and if they know it's because they voted for Trump… they're a lot more likely to do it again!
It doesn't let them reflect, shouting at them doesn't make them question what they've done. Opposing Trump's policies does more to stop him than getting Joe and Barbara down the street fired. And again, if someone crossed the line, fuck 'em. But I don't think 45% of Americans are that bigoted, even if they believe and do dumb things, even if those things hurt us all. They won't go away just because they have no friends.
During the W. Bush years, it was unbelievable just how angry I wanted to be at the fools who voted for him. Every horrible thing Trump is doing today, he has the power to do because of a Bush-era law.*** It's worse now because they're actually making ground, instead of finding and undoing restrictions on their power (though they're still doing that too). But yelling at family over the dinner table never accomplished anything. If you actually want to change their minds, you have to deconstruct their position. If you even try to politely debate something, people are programmed to react with disgust when they hear certain ideas, so it'll just escalate until everyone drops it. Coming at their position with empathy doesn't mean you support their idea, but it lets people listen to you instead of dismissing it all after they start thinking "Durr ur a librul!!!".
***Such as the 1983-inspirted USA PATRIOT "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" Act, which among others allows the US to indefinitely detain noncitizens without trial or charge
So when we're talking about intolerating intolerance, what are we aiming to do? If they're racist and being racist, we're making things less racist and more welcoming by kicking them out. That's good. If they voted for a racist, but only did so because they think they're gonna "Own the libs" or some other equally dumb reason (see Malik Obama @ ObamaMalik on twitter for an example, and yes that's really Barack Obama's brother… sadly), that's not going to stop them from voting that way again. If we kicked someone out who just dared to ask "Why are we kicking everyone out?", we haven't accomplished anything. That's what we have to ask - what are we accomplishing?
I definitely agree things are bad and getting worse, far worse than they have any right to be, but it's like I said in my original post: Evil politicians are not the same people that were duped into voting for them.
There's definitely a far worse movement out there now than the 'typical' Republican from say a decade ago, though. Like I also said, there's a line to be crossed. In your example of someone believing other races are lesser, that crosses that line and I feel no sympathy for someone's dumb ass being kicked out for that. It's the right thing to do for everyone's sake, by that point.
But there are people out there who are just confused, or duped, and believe dumb things even though they'd be better off not believing them. Some of them won't ever be convinced otherwise, yes. It all depends on the individual circumstance. So to me, the bar for kicking someone out is "Is this person a bigot, or are they causing trouble? If not, they can stay. If they cross the line, out."
All the horrible things going on, to me, I think opposing the people doing it directly instead of attacking other citizens would do better to stop it. I agree that opposing voting for Trump et. al. is one way to get them out of office, but what does alienating the actual people who voted for Trump do? They're a little less than half the country. They're still going to do it again whether or not they're kicked out, and if they know it's because they voted for Trump… they're a lot more likely to do it again!
It doesn't let them reflect, shouting at them doesn't make them question what they've done. Opposing Trump's policies does more to stop him than getting Joe and Barbara down the street fired. And again, if someone crossed the line, fuck 'em. But I don't think 45% of Americans are that bigoted, even if they believe and do dumb things, even if those things hurt us all. They won't go away just because they have no friends.
During the W. Bush years, it was unbelievable just how angry I wanted to be at the fools who voted for him. Every horrible thing Trump is doing today, he has the power to do because of a Bush-era law.*** It's worse now because they're actually making ground, instead of finding and undoing restrictions on their power (though they're still doing that too). But yelling at family over the dinner table never accomplished anything. If you actually want to change their minds, you have to deconstruct their position. If you even try to politely debate something, people are programmed to react with disgust when they hear certain ideas, so it'll just escalate until everyone drops it. Coming at their position with empathy doesn't mean you support their idea, but it lets people listen to you instead of dismissing it all after they start thinking "Durr ur a librul!!!".
***Such as the 1983-inspirted USA PATRIOT "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism" Act, which among others allows the US to indefinitely detain noncitizens without trial or charge
So when we're talking about intolerating intolerance, what are we aiming to do? If they're racist and being racist, we're making things less racist and more welcoming by kicking them out. That's good. If they voted for a racist, but only did so because they think they're gonna "Own the libs" or some other equally dumb reason (see Malik Obama @ ObamaMalik on twitter for an example, and yes that's really Barack Obama's brother… sadly), that's not going to stop them from voting that way again. If we kicked someone out who just dared to ask "Why are we kicking everyone out?", we haven't accomplished anything. That's what we have to ask - what are we accomplishing?
I agree, it's such a narrow-minded, short-term answer. You find your witches and you ostracize them. Then what? Does the movement suddenly disband? What if the system oppressing you is no different? Clearly that must mean there are more witches to burn.
I have already seen on multiple accounts, people being false-flagged as alt-right in order to be banned from FA, the same mentality is being utilized at cons now. Literal 'If you don't agree with this, you are a Nazi' badges being thrown on peoples dealers tables, stuck to their doors, stuck to fursuits. Seeing that kind of propaganda on a suit just makes me not want to take a picture with them. I don't really think the general public coming into cons wants to see that toxicity either.
Supposed 'family friendly' conventions having 'Fuck off Nazi' on their mascots, repulsive. There is a natural progression to this kind of behavior, and it's violence. Someone is going to get assaulted for being labeled.
All the while, FA still believes Antifa doesn't exist. I agree fully that the distinction for toxicity in this community should be "Is this person a bigot, or are they causing trouble? If not, they can stay. If they cross the line, out." If ANYONE is spreading bullshit instead of contacting con staff at the first sign of harassment (Doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on), they shouldn't be here. A real Neo-Nazi would get himself into trouble, we don't need a mob.
I also agree that failing to think long-term about our actions now are just going to lead to more conservative politics. People do not like anything shoved down their throats, especially identity politics. Guilt, shame and antagonizing the dominant majority is a terrible strategy, you want them to vote on your behalf. Otherwise you just come off as entitled and whiny.
I have already seen on multiple accounts, people being false-flagged as alt-right in order to be banned from FA, the same mentality is being utilized at cons now. Literal 'If you don't agree with this, you are a Nazi' badges being thrown on peoples dealers tables, stuck to their doors, stuck to fursuits. Seeing that kind of propaganda on a suit just makes me not want to take a picture with them. I don't really think the general public coming into cons wants to see that toxicity either.
Supposed 'family friendly' conventions having 'Fuck off Nazi' on their mascots, repulsive. There is a natural progression to this kind of behavior, and it's violence. Someone is going to get assaulted for being labeled.
All the while, FA still believes Antifa doesn't exist. I agree fully that the distinction for toxicity in this community should be "Is this person a bigot, or are they causing trouble? If not, they can stay. If they cross the line, out." If ANYONE is spreading bullshit instead of contacting con staff at the first sign of harassment (Doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on), they shouldn't be here. A real Neo-Nazi would get himself into trouble, we don't need a mob.
I also agree that failing to think long-term about our actions now are just going to lead to more conservative politics. People do not like anything shoved down their throats, especially identity politics. Guilt, shame and antagonizing the dominant majority is a terrible strategy, you want them to vote on your behalf. Otherwise you just come off as entitled and whiny.
"There is a natural progression to this kind of behavior, and it's violence." I've heard this one before. In a letter to MLK Jr., "Hang your head in shame. You are responsible for all of these riots and havoc in this country today." https://splinternews.com/martin-lut.....cis-1793850027
"A real Neo-Nazi would get himself into trouble." What if people do believe their being harassed but they aren't disturbing everyone? Do you throw them out? Or are they not a real nazi?
"I also agree that failing to think long-term about our actions now are just going to lead to more conservative politics." I am made so angry by this statement that I am struggling to not write an insult. Instead, I will write that anyone that votes to limit the rights of others based on immutable traits from birth hold evil in their heart. I feel the same way about the people calling the police on minorities. They were going to vote that way anyway and they get to play the victim.
"People do not like [being forced to consider discrimination based on race, religion, gender or creed]. Guilt, shame and antagonizing the dominant majority is a terrible strategy, you want them to vote on your behalf. Otherwise you just come off as entitled and whiny."
Why? Why should one not fight for their beliefs? Why should progressives not get to use the bully pulpit that has been used by conservatives for decades to shame progressives? Who is the dominant majority? Are they an apathetic populace that is for the status quo? Is the minority supposed to wait for Mighty Majority to come and save them?
additionally, you want to know where people get confused on a person's stance? It's when they write, "Supposed 'family friendly' conventions having 'Fuck off Nazi' on their mascots, repulsive." The nicest reading I can give is 'I believe in decorum to a fault'.
"A real Neo-Nazi would get himself into trouble." What if people do believe their being harassed but they aren't disturbing everyone? Do you throw them out? Or are they not a real nazi?
"I also agree that failing to think long-term about our actions now are just going to lead to more conservative politics." I am made so angry by this statement that I am struggling to not write an insult. Instead, I will write that anyone that votes to limit the rights of others based on immutable traits from birth hold evil in their heart. I feel the same way about the people calling the police on minorities. They were going to vote that way anyway and they get to play the victim.
"People do not like [being forced to consider discrimination based on race, religion, gender or creed]. Guilt, shame and antagonizing the dominant majority is a terrible strategy, you want them to vote on your behalf. Otherwise you just come off as entitled and whiny."
Why? Why should one not fight for their beliefs? Why should progressives not get to use the bully pulpit that has been used by conservatives for decades to shame progressives? Who is the dominant majority? Are they an apathetic populace that is for the status quo? Is the minority supposed to wait for Mighty Majority to come and save them?
additionally, you want to know where people get confused on a person's stance? It's when they write, "Supposed 'family friendly' conventions having 'Fuck off Nazi' on their mascots, repulsive." The nicest reading I can give is 'I believe in decorum to a fault'.
The reference to MLK Jr is wildly off the mark imo. You imply Nazism is already celebrated in the furry community and that the necessary change is public protest and harassment in what is meant to be a vacation setting. There is no evidence that Nazis even attend these cons.
Again, "Is this person a bigot, or are they causing trouble? If not, they can stay. If they cross the line, out." Someone trying to incite identity politics drama or violence at a con should be kicked out, regardless of their political affinity. These are meant to be avenues to escape the bullshit of daily life and relax. Why aren't these 'Fuck off Nazi' types hitting the streets? Because then they would be recognized as antifa, IE a terror group.
The rest of your post is an insinuation that you are entitled to power without the due process to vote for it, that is not democracy. Your rights are no more important than the person on the other side of the room, or political spectrum. If you are pushing a message of entitlement, bigotry and guilt, few are going to buy into it without the assumption that you want to breed a generation of permanent victims to the system. Mentions of police brutality based on race etc have absolutely nothing to do with furry conventions.
Again, "Is this person a bigot, or are they causing trouble? If not, they can stay. If they cross the line, out." Someone trying to incite identity politics drama or violence at a con should be kicked out, regardless of their political affinity. These are meant to be avenues to escape the bullshit of daily life and relax. Why aren't these 'Fuck off Nazi' types hitting the streets? Because then they would be recognized as antifa, IE a terror group.
The rest of your post is an insinuation that you are entitled to power without the due process to vote for it, that is not democracy. Your rights are no more important than the person on the other side of the room, or political spectrum. If you are pushing a message of entitlement, bigotry and guilt, few are going to buy into it without the assumption that you want to breed a generation of permanent victims to the system. Mentions of police brutality based on race etc have absolutely nothing to do with furry conventions.
Someone has done there research. And true thinking, knowing someone like this is in the fandom gives me hope.
No matter how bad the "fa mob" gets. Jasonafex you are a true pillar of the community.
Both in art and in thinking in speaking and meeting. Most mob members seem to say "thats weird coming from you" and "your the last person to talk about this" and yet your behaviour especially in cons says otherwise.
(watch cuckshack to fully get this)
No matter how bad the "fa mob" gets. Jasonafex you are a true pillar of the community.
Both in art and in thinking in speaking and meeting. Most mob members seem to say "thats weird coming from you" and "your the last person to talk about this" and yet your behaviour especially in cons says otherwise.
(watch cuckshack to fully get this)
You think that’s bad in regular society imagine in the ghetto you being a punk some African-American or Hispanic Mexican assumes your just a Nazi and treat you as such just because they don’t know much about what punk is just stuff happens every day I guess the reasons why it’s bad to you? is because this division happening in our own community is kind of annoying as well
I dunno why but it makes me feel like how people are today. If you don't want to take part of someone's idea, both accuse you of being in the other camp, which is actually not the case. I rallly don't like this mentallity but eh, I can't do anything to change it since I know for fact that people will judge, furry or not. By vaguely looking at comment,s, I know it's political but for me, it's more just of a question between politic, it's kinda how most of the people think in this damn era. If you don't have the same opinion, you're an ennemy.
At the time I’ve written this, it’s safe to say identity politics (mostly pretaining to the left) have created such a rift in the fandom that it’s become an ugly place to be. No I’m not a conservitive (actually left-leaning on a few divisive topics), but I’m still constantly harassed by furs who claim to be rightous. I’ve been called a “Nazi” over and over again simply because I wish no part in the social justice movement. Was once even harassed on Twitter for following “Nazi furs;” one of the “Nazis” had retweeted an altfur blocker.
It’s getting old.
I want it to just stop.
And yet I know that I will be attacked for speaking out against identity politics, mob mentality, and tribalisim. Why do it anyway? Because none of what I mentioned has any place within the furry fandom.
Also, nice comic.
It’s getting old.
I want it to just stop.
And yet I know that I will be attacked for speaking out against identity politics, mob mentality, and tribalisim. Why do it anyway? Because none of what I mentioned has any place within the furry fandom.
Also, nice comic.
The left would readily paint you as a supporter of nazis and general bigotry over such a stance though, if recent interactions between tens of thousands of Twitter users is anything to go by. In their eyes, if you aren’t actively fighting against every right-wing sensibility, then the left (and by extension, most furries on social media) see you as an enemy by proxy
The trends in the behavior of the greater furry community over the past 5 years have been in line with the absolute most extreme leftist views, with dramatic increases year over year in intolerance against lightly right-leaning individuals and even against libertarians/centrists by treating them as if they’re the alt-right; And at this point, the fandom having good art isn’t enough of an excuse for me to really put up with such behavior anymore.
The trends in the behavior of the greater furry community over the past 5 years have been in line with the absolute most extreme leftist views, with dramatic increases year over year in intolerance against lightly right-leaning individuals and even against libertarians/centrists by treating them as if they’re the alt-right; And at this point, the fandom having good art isn’t enough of an excuse for me to really put up with such behavior anymore.
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