k

you were not kidding about those delays XD
but yeha I get what yah mean on this pic

Ya, this was from my old delayed system. With the new delayed system it'll be much later than this for most pictures LOL

🐯👍✨

No thank you

??

That's a pretty mature way to think about our history! I dig your approach on this idea.

If you really think the USA history is THAT BAD, you desesperaly need to real OTHER'S COUNTRY HISTORY (Huns empire specifically). The biggest mistake people make while learning history is judging people of the past with today's moral standards. YOU would be a monster if judged with the morality of centuries into the future & YOU would be "as bad" if you were born in that timeline. People need to get down of that non existence high horse & learn morality is EVOLVES. The only ones that can brag about never commiting a mistake are those who didn't make anything at all, because doing nothing, is the only thing you can make perfectly every time.

STFU boomer.

The history I'm judging isn't old. I have family that can remember their experiences during the times where American failed greatly. Consider the eugenics boards.

Also if one does not learn from history, they are doomed to repeat it. AKA, you're allowed to judge the past because acting like the past is just the past means you'll keep it going.
For example, the USA use to have harash slavery but then we kinda ended it. Now the USA has slavery via prison labour because there's an "except" in the 13th amendment which allows us to not feel bad because they're just criminals. You know, those criminals that society decides are criminals such as the very dangerous pot smoker OOOOOOOOOO.

With your standard of logic, which countries have the largest prison populations and what sort of people are more likely to be jailed? In the USA in particular, what mistake do you think white supremacist feel like they made and what was their solution to implement more white supremacist laws and systems?

Also this journal is for you!
https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/9511244

Thank you for the excellent journal to read. I hope you stay safe and keep active.

Thank you for taking the time to respond! I believe that my opinion contrasts against yours.
I do believe we have to compare our morals today against the morals of yesteryear because of what we understand are the effects of those actions in the past. We have to see -how- our morals changed, what good qualities we held up, and where we failed and could have done better.

We have to do the above because we need to find out what we are going to pass on to the future and also help others understand how we got to our current state, either by slow progress, backslide, or a sudden pivot in understanding. Without this candid and important view of the past, we ignore our mistakes as a country and people, and doom our descendants to worse fates, more than likely because we will perpetuate failed systems, wittingly or unwittingly.

Concerning your idea that we need to contrast against other country's history: I feel this is a red herring. Every country has skeletons in their closets. Yes, we can look to other countries and see their failures, but that does not necessarily bring us to a reckoning of our past in the United States. We may not be the worst, but we CAN be doing better. This ties nicely back up into the statement above and the subject of the artwork.

Finally, your statement concerning "Never committing mistakes" is also odd. No entity is immune to mistakes. To assume that we are looking to the past to prevent future mistakes is a shallow, but benign, statement. History shows us HOW and WHY we made these decisions, for weal or woe. This does tie nicely into the subject matter of the picture: We need to come to a reckoning of how and why the current state of our country is the way it is, how it is hurting a significant section of the population in a manner that is not in line with the spirit of our founding documents, and how we can bring our country close to the lines, "The all men are created equal", and to protect the precious unalienable rights of "Truth, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" that we say, are due to all, but don't actively give.


Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment! I'm glad you feel strongly about the USA enough, even though I am not a fan of Moral Relativism as an argumentative stance.

One year, I had a white history teacher... All the stuff I heard every year as a kid.

I had only 1 black history teacher... And he said he's required to leave out a lot of truth, that Washington's teeth weren't made from wood, how the first black Olympian gold medalist was stripped of his honor the same day he arrived back into the United States, how the first settlers gave pox blankets to the natives...

He was fired after I graduated. The only guy to really tell us our true history, and the board didn't want to let him do so.

ok

Yessss! I love this.

> When the symbols become more important than the citizens, what are we even celebrating?

This, this right here. Nothing really to celebrate. Wasn't for me at least. If anyone thinks that's unpatriotic they can get fucked. It's the most patriotic thing to stand up for what you believe is right in your country because you want your country to be better. It's nothing but blind jingoist nationalism to just "YAY FLAG" because you wanna here things go boom colorful in the sky instead.

Patriotism isn't about fucking symbols. It's about what you do to make your country a better place. If someone's just celebrating because "I'm American" and they think doing the motions is what they need to do, they're not a fucking patriot. They're a sycophant. And a sycophant is never a patriot.

Thank you for this, even if it's 31 days late. x3

Very true

Also it's not 31 days late!
I just delay posts to this site. Soon the delay will be by months lol. https://Koorivlf.com has my more main sites that get posts on time.

Oh derp! Well I appreciate the heads up, I'm bad about checking places, will try to follow there more!

Also, oh comments, oh boy the toxicity back in ...some amount of force, whee. I'm sorry you gotta deal with it.

Honestly it's pretty calm in this thread. I say a lot of things that piss people off so I'm very use to it lol.
>:3 If it spreads good information then it's worth it

Wow, just wow.

Nice art. VERY good points about complete history not being taught, and that historical figures are shown as very one dimensional.

Bad though? I have to wonder what country is considered "good" (that has been around a couple hundred years at least).

Regardless, "we can and should do better..." is very true.

If you really think the USA history is THAT BAD, you desesperaly need to real OTHER'S COUNTRY HISTORY (Huns empire specifically). The biggest mistake people make while learning history, is judging people of the past with today's moral standards. YOU would be a monster if judged with the morality of centuries into the future because you're not an oracle & YOU would be "as bad" if you were born in that timeline, because you would be educated exactly in the same way or otherwise killed/exiled. People need to get down of that non existing high horse & learn that morality is EVOLVES/CHANGES. The only ones that can brag about never commiting a mistake are those who didn't make anything at all, because doing nothing, is the only thing you can make perfectly every time.

There are good and bad aspects of any country. No country will be fully good, that's not their intended purpose in the first place

However, you can compare countries and compared to other developed countries, the USA is pretty shit. The things that USA is best at are generally those that hurt most citizens.

Some of that is due to the foundational system we used for the USA. Some of that is just modern day fuckery.

Ah, the fabled good faith discussion on the internet. It does exist! A great take, but I hate this version of reality where the most fair and nuanced position on this topic I've seen so far is from an artist I follow because I think the way he draws fetish transformation is particularly arousing.

But I am happy to see the opinion stated. To often I see blind support or condemnation of the past. "Ideals are like the stars: we never reach them, but like the mariners of the sea, we chart our course by them."

Ya, the internet can be pretty bad at points, but there are many people who want to talk honestly about stuff!

There's many big discussions happening currently that are more accessible due to the internet! Such as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Z0Srfpd2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lac-8tTuyhs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho_Teko-Jr0
- Another broken link
- This link broke cause FA is old and bad I guess so hopefully this works

Ok all the links work now. FA really needs to update their site LOL

I don't know why but this response really made my day. Hope the rest of yours goes well too.

That's nice... but bringing political standpoints and views into a fetish driven website? Stick to drawing man... people are here for the artwork, not to hear about your political views or what you do and don't like about the USA.

Lord knows there's enough of that on the news, Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, etc. Let us have one corner of the universe as our own haven away from the doom and gloom of the real world and stop bringing it here too.

Technically, art is used to convey whatever the artist wishes to. It is not limited to fetishes.

If we limit what the artist can do, is it even really art anymore? I've seen many artists quit, and specifically quit Fur Affinity, because they feel that they are not allowed to express themselves with their art unless it's to satisfy someone's fetish.

You totally missed the point. What I'm saying if you want to be politically vocal, use one of the other avenues to do it with. I used to follow this person on Twitter before they became a political advocate and it got to be too much, but I liked his/her fetish artwork so I continued to follow them here on FurAffinity. I would just like there to be ONE place where I'm not constantly seeing or hearing about how fucked up everything is, or how evil white people are, or how greedy anymore with more that $100 is, or how much police suck, or how much the US sucks, etc.

I do see your point. While it's good for the artists to be allowed to express themselves, us the viewers would rather have our entertainment uninterrupted.

Still, if you look at the advanced search option in Fur Affinity, you'll notice that there's options to search for music and poetry. I don't think Fur Affinity was designed exclusively for fetishes, but I do agree it'd be nice to have a place that's ONLY for fetishes.

Thanks for your point, btw. I like it when people give me a new point of view that I hadn't considered.

This is a bad point. Xana7274 point assumes you CAN avoid such issues at some point in your day. It takes power and resources to have a space of uninterrupted entertainment, even for a limited time. Not everyone gets that luxury.

You can in fact, have big political topics next to your entertainment and still be entertained. Even if you're reminded those topics exists. Trying to act like a good space is one without such issues being brought up is really just coping with the issues of the world by actively avoiding the problem.

If one doesn't want to see politics during their entertainment time, they can just in fact, skip over it and come back to it later. You're allowed to be reminded of it but not engage with it. This is the same thing like if you're gay, and you see straight porn as you're scrolling, you skip over it. It would be nice to have a gay only space, but since the world is primary straight, you always have the chance to be reminded of it and your reaction can be one of letting it co-exist, working to making a more secure lgbt+ space, or what they did which is to say "I follow you only for the gay, don't put the straights into my feed. I don't care if you're bi/just wanted to draw straight porn for some reason. Stop it"

It's an understandable point, but it fundamentally assumes that a selfishly curated contained space is what other people should help try to create

If problems in the USA don't get fixed, I can't make as much porn. It directly affects my output. Also a lot of my other artwork has political messages but they're not as apparent so it doesn't bother people. For example, what do you think I based KoorTech off of? How does that inform the pictures I make? It may be horny but I do certainly make comments about the inspiration for KoorTech in there.

TLDR- Don't agree to have a place only for fetishes. It is a nice luxury but is ultimately harmful currently the way people try to express having that luxury.

That is also very true, and I shall keep my eye out for it.

I do understand the desire for a place that only caters one one's specific fetishes, but to be honest, I like it when artists go beyond that. I like for art to have meaning and story behind it. It's the main reason why I favorited this one.

Do keep up what you do.

There is no such thing as being apolitical when it comes to being creative. Anything you, or anybody else makes will always be tainted with political messaging. The sooner you realize this and just accept it, the less stress you're going to feel.

No, that idea of "everything is polítical" comes from the "cultural revolution" of Mao Zedong, to label every piece of media (especially old art & Chinese culture) that didn't endorsed his politics explicitly, as "dangerous or counter revolutionary", as an excuse to destroy it & to attack anyone who didn't explicitly bend the knee or clap at it. That idea is very dangerous.

Btw, if you don't know someone's gender just use they/them

That's true. I'm deeply sorry for bringing politics onto this furry website.

I, as a furry artist who draws some fetish stuff a points, should be more considerate about what type of experiences I'm creating and sharing for the folks here. I should really be creating experience where everyone can enjoy my content, especially with recent events going on.

I made this journal for you. I hope you read it and forgive me.
https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/9511244

-sigh- So glad you're being mature about this. I tried to be humble and bring up another side to this discussion and create a dialog and conversation. You took the road of spitting in my face and double-downed on your efforts. I suppose one of us needs to be the bigger person here, so this will be my last comment.

I'm sorry, but I will no longer be a follower of yours on this or any other platform. Take care.

You said "Stick to drawing man... people are here for the artwork, not to hear about your political views"

Your statement was not mature, humble, nor was it a discussion. That's a suggest at best and a command at worse. I have no desire to entertain the idea of "Maybe I should consider how my political views could affect people" when your statement itself does the same thing to me while also acting like I as a person shouldn't exist beyond any capcity besides porn. This is ultimately my artwork. I can make the works I create go for any end goal I want.

Generally the end goal is primarily horny, but even then I put political messages in there. This is just a more overt political message, because I am a person whose works are informed by the world. For this not to be there means most of my other works wouldn't exist either.

If being the bigger person means disengagement, you could have just done that from the start. 1000+ people did so. People who don't care about the message will just pass over it. It takes effort to comment. It takes more effort for a discussion, which to me, you were not trying to do. It is ok to be the big person AND to care.

Take care as well. I don't need to know your follower list but thanks. Bye bye.

I mean, given the awful fucking environment that is the furry world on Twitter, this particular submission is TAME. I'm fine with it.

Dude the usa is a piece of shit, art is inherently political

If you really think the USA history is THAT BAD, you desesperaly need to real OTHER'S COUNTRY HISTORY (Huns empire specifically). The biggest mistake people make while learning history, is judging people of the past with today's moral standards. YOU would be a monster if judged with the morality of centuries into the future because you're not an oracle & YOU would be "as bad" if you were born in that timeline, because you would be educated exactly in the same way or otherwise killed/exiled. People need to get down of that non existing high horse & learn that morality is EVOLVES/CHANGES. The only ones that can brag about never commiting a mistake are those who didn't make anything at all, because doing nothing, is the only thing you can make perfectly every time.

The following aren't arguments against what you said per se, but more like philosophical points that came to mind, and I think would make good conversations:

- Isn't doing nothing in of itself a mistake depending on the situation?
- If we don't use morality to learn from the past, judge our present, and aim for a better future because of the fact that morality changes and evolves, what's the point of morality in general?
- While I believe that other countries have worse history than the US, wouldn't it still be best to compare USA to itself in order to seek improvement? I mean, just because it's not as bad doesn't mean it can't be better than what it is.

Good, questions, I recommend the youtube channels of "Hystory Matters" to now the "whys" of Hystory, there's always a context of why some things happened or not, and sometimes "the more moral" is usually an impossible standard for said moment. Example, there was a denounce against slavery in the original draft of the declaration of independence but was left out because of souther states wouldn't support the independence. Thomas Jefferson warned that controversy would lead to a war in the future (which it did).

First off, saying one country has a worse history than another doesn't equate to one country having a good history and one having a bad. They can both be bad. You're relying on a Tu Quoque fallacy to make an argument.

To your second point, claiming that people were a product of their times only works when they didn't know better at all. When it comes to topics like slavery, civil rights, universal suffrage, LGBTQ+ rights, etc, the US wasn't the first to realize which side of these arguments was amoral, and which one was moral. For instance, with slavery, the founders pretty much universally knew it was bad, but didn't address it anyway because it would have torn the early nation apart. So yes, these people are all pretty complex assholes.

And if someone 200 years from now considers me an asshole because I knew something was wrong and refused to listen, then I'd be an asshole. Everybody would be.

Your argument only works with slavery (LGBTQ rights in 1776? Are you even serious?), taking the contrary against the mayority is very dangerous, Galileo was almost killed for saying that the earth spinned around the sun, no matter how right he was, no one listened & was just punished. For example, everyone believes they would be "anti facists" if they were in the Nazi Germany, when in reality they would just shut up for their own safety, that's why those who actually spoke out are considered heroes & brave now, they are the exception not the rule. Sometimes "the most moral/right" is an imposible standard, usually, not achievable without spilling blood, not many take that risk for a bargain that can maybe pay off or not, & also because the "lesser evil" was considered "good enough" for their short term goals. A lot of people have regrets because of this, but doing things is usually a bargain, life is better understood backward (when you already know the outcome) but it has to be lived forward which is an uncertain. That logic still applies today, try to be a "hero" or speak against the system where your safety is not guaranteed, like China & Russia & then tell me to my face the mayority wouldn't chicken out in front of the very real possibility of been crushed without actually achieving nothing (Tiananmen Square). People need to see the glass half full, as long as things improve, then everything is going to be fine & going in the right path, Roman wasn't built in one day.

1.
This video is you and you should consider the underlying assumptions you're making in your statements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yts2F44RqFw

2.
have an extra video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Z0Srfpd2s

This is a very cinical & pessimistic train of thought. Sometimes "the most moral/right" is an imposible standard, usually, not achievable without spilling blood, not many take that risk for a bargain that can maybe pay off or not, & also because the "lesser evil" was considered "good enough" for their short term goals. A lot of people have regrets because of this, but doing things is usually a bargain, life is better understood backward (when you already know the outcome) but it has to be lived forward which is an uncertain. That logic still applies today, try to be a "hero" or speak against the system where your safety is not guaranteed, like China & Russia & then tell me to my face the mayority wouldn't chicken out in front of the very real possibility of been crushed without actually achieving nothing (Tiananmen Square). People need to see the glass half full, as long as things improve, then everything is going to be fine & going in the right path, Roman wasn't built in one day. About patriotism (which I'm not very much), is just a tool to keep cohesion, so people can have at least one common goal, otherwise nations would fall apart & treason would be more common (especially if money is involved).

Again, rewatch the video. You are being guy from payroll. Being guy from payroll is unhelpful especially when historically there has been change for logical reasons not moral reasons. It's not a high horse thing to say when everyone is suppose to be able to purse life, we should make it a goal for everyone to have medical care that's free to access. Every other country does it fully or to some degree and we just don't due to profits for the few. Literally historically the system has been and is currently been in use.
You're literally just making excuses not to do even basic shit other countries have done already without bloodshed. And what? We should let a shit ton of violence and bloodshed continue because more bloodshed could happen if we made things better, thus causing more overall bloodshed over an extended period of time? Why not stop the bloodshed sooner?

Also use your real words. You copied yourself and no one cares about roman not being built in a day. They didn't make each day a little better, people lived and you hoped people made it better eventually. "We'll do stuff eventually" is a dumb statement when you have shit like global warming that will destroy human's survivability rate within 10 years, taking a long time actually means death for many.
Patriotism hasn't always been a thing. But let's go down that route...why not make patriotism based on humanity? How well humanity is doing? Why can't the common goal be to make sure everyone is fine and able to have a life before they die?

What in the universe says the common goal has to be land grabs and resource extraction? That's silly.

Here, have history https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119.....lice-63877803/

It's not that America's history is so much better or worse (better in some respects, worse than others), it's just that it's worse, often much worse, than the stories we tell ourselves, regardless of how other countries conduct themselves.

On the plus side, I've had added this to my favorites.

On the down side, now this masterpiece is surrounded by all the porn in my favorites.

It's ok, people will just think "Cum to the USA" when they see it

Every once in awhile, I click the SFW slider at the top, then go to my profile and look through my favorites. :-D

This is brilliant and I love it. Thank you for taking a stand. Respect the hell out of this.

Too right. Thank you for sharing.

I'm surprised how many hateful people are commenting and attacking you, those angry might need to look at the character/hero who wears the flag.
Captain America.
There's a comic where he explains that a flag is just that, a flag.
People might learn a thing or two.
https://aetherealengineer.files.wor.....7/cap_2015.jpg
I still love your art, screw the haters!

The 4th of August is the new 4th of July.
Pretty spot-on though.

For FA it will be! FA posts are just delayed by a lot. They'll be delayed by months soon. So christmas may be in july :3

Https://koorivlf.com has my main sites that post on time

Comedy Central used to do something like that! I remember they loved to promote their "new fall season in July."

You weren’t kidding about the delays. I really respect this piece. There’s so much history that gets glossed over or boiled down to make things seem better than they really were and it sucks.

Hopefully history is taught more or at least the ability to research into history is taught more soon!

This is a great submission. Thank you for posting it.

thanks!