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A PSA for fighters regarding arms and armor.
Or: Let people have their leather armors and fantasy weapons!
I have been seeing some discussion recently about what the "best" weapon/armor would be, usually regarding what the "best" would be for a certain race; what would allow a person of that species to utilize their unique strengths etc.
I think the discussion in itself is lacking an important piece of context: Best for *what*? Dueling? Skirmishes? Dungeon-diving?
In a fantasy world, it would only make sense that the equipment people use would adapt to be effective for fantasy uses. Realism is pretty cool, for sure, but I think people using equipment that is most aptly-suited to their needs is even more realistic.
I've also seen some amounts of gate-keeping regarding equipment, mainly regarding how a piece of equipment would be 'unrealistic', and I disagree with that. So long as the player/DM/writer has put some thought into why people are equipped a certain way, and it is consistent with the rest of the setting, they can get away with anything. If every soldier in a setting wore that adventurer's outfit, that'd be pretty dumb, so I think there shouldn't be an expectation on every adventurer to wear a soldier's outfit. (Of course if the adventurer is an ex-soldier that's a different story!)
Or: Let people have their leather armors and fantasy weapons!
I have been seeing some discussion recently about what the "best" weapon/armor would be, usually regarding what the "best" would be for a certain race; what would allow a person of that species to utilize their unique strengths etc.
I think the discussion in itself is lacking an important piece of context: Best for *what*? Dueling? Skirmishes? Dungeon-diving?
In a fantasy world, it would only make sense that the equipment people use would adapt to be effective for fantasy uses. Realism is pretty cool, for sure, but I think people using equipment that is most aptly-suited to their needs is even more realistic.
I've also seen some amounts of gate-keeping regarding equipment, mainly regarding how a piece of equipment would be 'unrealistic', and I disagree with that. So long as the player/DM/writer has put some thought into why people are equipped a certain way, and it is consistent with the rest of the setting, they can get away with anything. If every soldier in a setting wore that adventurer's outfit, that'd be pretty dumb, so I think there shouldn't be an expectation on every adventurer to wear a soldier's outfit. (Of course if the adventurer is an ex-soldier that's a different story!)
Category Artwork (Digital) / Fantasy
Species Western Dragon
Size 2000 x 1323px
File Size 688 kB
I have gotten rather tired of all the people I play DnD with focusing on gaining the 'soldier' look solely for the purpose of having more AC. AC is all that matters to them and the base every level up, feat, and purchase around gaining more AC so that the DM has to scale all of the enemies against them, leaving those that are NOT min/maxing to suffer. People that play 'characters' do not belong in the same party as people that play as 'killing machines'.
TLDR: Min/Maxing is bad, M'kay?
TLDR: Min/Maxing is bad, M'kay?
I'd say this is more a case of bad DM'ing. A good DM should let a player enjoy their build, not find ways to nullify it. Remember that every choice made when building a character comes with an opportunity cost - every decision made means another decision that wasn't made. If a player builds their character to have a super buff AC, let them enjoy their super buff AC.
I feel personally attacked.
Ive made a long rant before on why I hate the fantasy adventurer style leather armor, and I honestly think the solider look you got there is the best for all 3 scenarios (tho it wouldnt be fair in a duel so I'd at least understand not using it for that one, unless both fighters are heavily armored and its a point based duel). Im not opposed to the idea of lighter, more comfortable armor tho, so I do understand the need adventurers might have for it, I just think the typical fantasy leather armor they use for it is bad.
I'd never like call anyone out on that stuff or attack them for it tho. its just something I occasionally rant about into the void, and sometimes people listen. I mean hell Im kinda guilty of it myself with one of my characters. (but in my defense, he is a bird, so I needed him to be light so he could fly)
Ive made a long rant before on why I hate the fantasy adventurer style leather armor, and I honestly think the solider look you got there is the best for all 3 scenarios (tho it wouldnt be fair in a duel so I'd at least understand not using it for that one, unless both fighters are heavily armored and its a point based duel). Im not opposed to the idea of lighter, more comfortable armor tho, so I do understand the need adventurers might have for it, I just think the typical fantasy leather armor they use for it is bad.
I'd never like call anyone out on that stuff or attack them for it tho. its just something I occasionally rant about into the void, and sometimes people listen. I mean hell Im kinda guilty of it myself with one of my characters. (but in my defense, he is a bird, so I needed him to be light so he could fly)
I certainly didn't mean it as an attack to anyone!
I'm also a big fan of realism (I rename all Leather Armor in my DnD games as Gambeson), and AFAIK leather armor is hella expensive and not protective enough for how much it costs. *But* I can imagine a setting where leather armor is cheaper/easier to make for some reason, or a hero-type character who is cocky enough to be wearing the crop-top breastplace, valuing sex-appeal over protection.
His whole outfit in fact is a bunch of fantasy pet-peeves of mine that can be explained away with creative writing:
Maybe his humongous fork-sword is driven into the ground because it's magically sharp,
maybe he needs the potion-belt because it can make the difference between life and death,
maybe he has some fighting style that never leaves his right shoulder exposed and can afford to wear only half a set of armor.
It would certainly make for a fun conversation to walk up to him and ask him about these things!
Like, there has never been a situation where anyone would need to wear a bandolier of wooden stakes but I imagine it'd be very useful for a vampire hunter.
I'm also a big fan of realism (I rename all Leather Armor in my DnD games as Gambeson), and AFAIK leather armor is hella expensive and not protective enough for how much it costs. *But* I can imagine a setting where leather armor is cheaper/easier to make for some reason, or a hero-type character who is cocky enough to be wearing the crop-top breastplace, valuing sex-appeal over protection.
His whole outfit in fact is a bunch of fantasy pet-peeves of mine that can be explained away with creative writing:
Maybe his humongous fork-sword is driven into the ground because it's magically sharp,
maybe he needs the potion-belt because it can make the difference between life and death,
maybe he has some fighting style that never leaves his right shoulder exposed and can afford to wear only half a set of armor.
It would certainly make for a fun conversation to walk up to him and ask him about these things!
Like, there has never been a situation where anyone would need to wear a bandolier of wooden stakes but I imagine it'd be very useful for a vampire hunter.
I am not real big into realism, but my rationale for adventurer piecemeal armor is usually mobility and not like in travel or a fight. The soldier is best for protection in a fight, but imagine if you have to scale a cliff in that or squeeze through a narrow opening. Not to mention sneaking around or traps.
I might be wrong but that is always what I peg. The actual adventuring part of the adventure.
I might be wrong but that is always what I peg. The actual adventuring part of the adventure.
For me it's always the leather armor. It's why in my campaign leather armor essentially doesn't actually exist in any real capacity in the world. Gambesons of various varieties replace leather armor. Will still never understand why you get a stealth penalty in padded armor in DnD but that was my way around it and the players generally don't complain because the studded gambeson I have them wear is identical to studded leather. My world treats leather more like reality. Leather is for boots, straps, bindings, and luxuries. Having a leather jacket or pants is more a luxury item then an actually advantageous thing in combat. That and longswords. I usually specify 'Arming Sword' when a Longsword should be presented though they generally operate the same state wise.
When it comes to fantasy/D&D, the way I see it is that soldiers are people who are trained primarily to fight other 'sapient' races and defend their respective homes against monsters that wander too close. They only need to know as much as the job requires. A soldier can moonlight as an adventurer when they're off duty with permission from their commanding officer, lord, or other direct authority.
Duelists, in my opinion, are those of higher or noble birth, they're people who can afford the relative luxury of specialized training without necessarily having to be a part of an army. Any need to fight is generally for personal honor or political reasons, though in a pinch they can be of aid to a group of adventurers if necessary.
Adventurers, however, are those who are either self-taught, trained, or otherwise called to the lifestyle for whatever reasons. Whether there's a unified guild or they're just wanderers, adventurers fight against things that would otherwise require an army to subjugate, risking life and limb for honor, glory, and/or a shit ton of money.
So there can be overlap, an ex-soldier becoming an adventurer, and adventurer becoming a soldier, a duelist seeking fun and adventure... It's all up to the imagination of everyone, really.
Duelists, in my opinion, are those of higher or noble birth, they're people who can afford the relative luxury of specialized training without necessarily having to be a part of an army. Any need to fight is generally for personal honor or political reasons, though in a pinch they can be of aid to a group of adventurers if necessary.
Adventurers, however, are those who are either self-taught, trained, or otherwise called to the lifestyle for whatever reasons. Whether there's a unified guild or they're just wanderers, adventurers fight against things that would otherwise require an army to subjugate, risking life and limb for honor, glory, and/or a shit ton of money.
So there can be overlap, an ex-soldier becoming an adventurer, and adventurer becoming a soldier, a duelist seeking fun and adventure... It's all up to the imagination of everyone, really.
Another thing I keep in mind is that most adventurers are probably people who started out as your average civilian, armed with only the bare basics or what they could scrounge up. Maybe the spear-wielding fighter with mismatched and incomplete armor is a former farmer. Stabbing a spear isn't too dissimilar to poking something with a pitchfork, and perhaps they couldn't afford a full set of armor, and decided some was better than none, or maybe it's piecemeal from what success they've had thus far.
For an adventurer, pragmatism is often more important, and while it may be risky, carrying 5+ daggers on their person in easily reachable areas is more so they can quickly retaliate when grappled, (Think Resident Evil 2 Remake's subweapons,) or the potions kept in a sort of bandolier are specifically so they can pop a healing potion quickly mid-combat. Maybe the leather armor comes from a monster that was magic enough for it to provide a passive protection without being counted as enchanted and without necessitating a full suit.
For an adventurer, pragmatism is often more important, and while it may be risky, carrying 5+ daggers on their person in easily reachable areas is more so they can quickly retaliate when grappled, (Think Resident Evil 2 Remake's subweapons,) or the potions kept in a sort of bandolier are specifically so they can pop a healing potion quickly mid-combat. Maybe the leather armor comes from a monster that was magic enough for it to provide a passive protection without being counted as enchanted and without necessitating a full suit.
Armored tail sleeves!? What is this, some kind of actual armor design that accounts for their anatomy?
I am 100% into tail sleeves if I actually had a tail, but I don't like them aesthetically for reasons. Just uh, grow your tail back it's fine. Blood loss? Not unless they deal bleed damage!
I am 100% into tail sleeves if I actually had a tail, but I don't like them aesthetically for reasons. Just uh, grow your tail back it's fine. Blood loss? Not unless they deal bleed damage!
Yeah I definitely agree with this. I've always said characters should be outfitted with a function in mind. Sure, you can stretch the boundaries a bit to have fun with it but if you want your character to be a master arbalest or some such why did you make their side arm a big war maul?
Nothing wrong with unorthodox choices and all, but I've seen so many silly things like that while someone beats their chest about their setting is so 'realistic'. I feel so many people get caught up in trying to hit that realism bench mark when they'd just be better off going with what they think is fun and dropping the pretense. Otherwise, just do a little research and think of practical application people.
Nothing wrong with unorthodox choices and all, but I've seen so many silly things like that while someone beats their chest about their setting is so 'realistic'. I feel so many people get caught up in trying to hit that realism bench mark when they'd just be better off going with what they think is fun and dropping the pretense. Otherwise, just do a little research and think of practical application people.
I mostly agree to this, though as far as homebrew worlds are concerned I'd like to see more differences in enemies you fight on them, I'd like a homebrew campaign where you get to fight merceneries soldiers guards rebels etc while fighting full wars or a civil war, because if we're fighting the same goblins orcs cultists undead why not just play a module campaign? I do sometimes feel like D&D is too focused on monsters.
Of course with medieval fantasy militaries there are different units also, heavy armor is hella expensive, I imagine mainly more elite soldiers would be equipped with full plated armor, similar to the irl middle ages, of course whenever common soldiers or merceneries or even adventurers wear leather armor or padded armor is up to how to fantasy world works. I do like adding leather armor because it does look cool, but I would like to see more of a focus on padded and scaled mail armors, I feel it's very underrated.
Last thing would be the effectiveness of the armor in the fantasy world, I cringe every time I see a main hero slicing through people in plated armor like butter, or stabbing right through a steal plate with their katana. I get it's fantasy, even I bend the rules a bit in order to have fun, but come on, that makes armor look pointless.
Of course with medieval fantasy militaries there are different units also, heavy armor is hella expensive, I imagine mainly more elite soldiers would be equipped with full plated armor, similar to the irl middle ages, of course whenever common soldiers or merceneries or even adventurers wear leather armor or padded armor is up to how to fantasy world works. I do like adding leather armor because it does look cool, but I would like to see more of a focus on padded and scaled mail armors, I feel it's very underrated.
Last thing would be the effectiveness of the armor in the fantasy world, I cringe every time I see a main hero slicing through people in plated armor like butter, or stabbing right through a steal plate with their katana. I get it's fantasy, even I bend the rules a bit in order to have fun, but come on, that makes armor look pointless.
Nice characters!
People do seem to like gatekeeping. I tend towards the realism side of things, but some things simply look cool, and my go to answer for it is: "They couldn't afford actual equipment and just scavenged what they could find."
As an aside, strangely people don't tend to address the issue of continued technological development in arms and armor either (besides gunpowder). Chain mail is expensive in the 13th Century, munitions armor makes plate mail much cheaper for mass use in the 15th Century, better firearms makes full body armor pointlessly cumbersome by the 17th Century, yet most fantasy seems to work in a linear quality of leather armor < chain mail < plate armor.
People do seem to like gatekeeping. I tend towards the realism side of things, but some things simply look cool, and my go to answer for it is: "They couldn't afford actual equipment and just scavenged what they could find."
As an aside, strangely people don't tend to address the issue of continued technological development in arms and armor either (besides gunpowder). Chain mail is expensive in the 13th Century, munitions armor makes plate mail much cheaper for mass use in the 15th Century, better firearms makes full body armor pointlessly cumbersome by the 17th Century, yet most fantasy seems to work in a linear quality of leather armor < chain mail < plate armor.
Some people like realism. Others couldn't care less. I prefer creativity and imagination, honestly. Especially in tabletop games... all we really have is imagination. We don't get to see intricate designs on weapons, or styles for armor. It's just numbers on a page, and (if we're lucky) some personalization notes. Not everyone can draw, but we still want to have fun. And I don't know about you, but even in video games, I don't like spending so much time designing appearance on a character just to have them buried under "generic plate mail #73"!
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