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Our Reflections Are Not Always Pretty
15 years ago
Anti-Drama Llama Movement NewsletterAs you may know, within the last 48 hours or so, I wrote a journal about a rather controversial topic that got such a varied response that I was actually quite impressed. I also got some "tsk tsks" sent my way for it, but believe you me when I say that I APPRECIATE the "tsk tsks" and the feedback and everything. In fact, I somewhat expected the membership of the ADLM to drop. I was expecting PMs voicing outrage, disappointment, or "I'm leaving". But instead, the only new PMs I saw were from people wanting to join! As of this writing, the number of watchers here is at 792!!!
That's a FANTASTIC number! I can't believe there are so many people interested in this movement. It makes me glad to know that there are so many people out there who care about the movement.
At the same time, I should also apologize since I have to admit that when I wrote the last journal, I was a bit frustrated at a lot of things at the time, and may have gone a bit overboard. But even so, I'm not going to change it, delete it, or alter it for any reason since I said what I said, and I'm not going to take it back. I will, however, apologize for upsetting some of you, though, and for those of you who did get upset, I am sorry.
But at the same time, this gave me a chance to get a look at how many of you out there think drama, in general, should be treated. One of the more common comments I saw were from people saying that it should just be ignored. That given time, the drama would just go away. I saw comments saying that bringing up touchy subjects would re-open old wounds and incite negative emotions. And in some cases, yes, this is the right thing to do.
Take for example two people arguing over the Pokemon Combat Academy Role Play being held here on FA. (
PokeCombatAcademy if you're interested. ) One of the rules states that only game admins or faculty (game managers) are allowed to be the "Legendary" Pokemon. All students and others have to be the regular Pokemon. So one person tries to join with a student that's a "Legendary" and another player goes "HEY! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!"
Things devolve into name calling, "I'm telling!", and general flame wars where friends soon take sides and it just goes downhill from there. In situations like these, YES! Just walk away! Just letting it go and ignoring it will solve EVERYTHING. This is because this is something VERY PETTY! Something that is so insignificant and minute that the only reason it exists is that both parties are incapable of either walking away, or just letting things slide. It's also possible to diffuse situations like this when a 3rd party comes in and plays the mediator. They help get both sides to an agreement that works for the both of them.
One thing I believe is that if many people on FA had better social skills and manners, a lot of needless drama can be avoided by being tactful and polite enough to walk away or diffuse a situation.
I had an artist friend of mine come to me once saying they had a problem. They had been contacted by someone who wanted to pay them for art that they could then resell. My friends initial reaction was to tell them off, but was worried that would cause some kind of backlash. After thinking about it for a moment, I said that a better solution would be to ask for more details instead of just brushing them off. My friend wouldn't be saying yes, but at the same time, putting the ball back in the commissioner's court. If they came back all uppity and snotty, then I told my friend that they had every right to tell them off after that. However, the other person replied with information and a chance to learn more about what they were planning on doing. Again, my friend wasn't sure how to respond since they didn't feel comfortable. So I helped them write a reply saying that they politely declined because they weren't 100% comfortable with the arrangement, but at the same time thanked the person for their interest and welcomed them to my friend's regular commissions if they were interested. My friend got a new watcher because of this, and the matter was diffused peacefully with both sides in agreement.
With some carefully chosen words and a professional demeanor, my artist friend was able to get out of a rather uncomfortable situation while saving face, and even making a new watcher in the process. (Granted I helped them with the choice of words, but even so, I've had quite a bit of practice.)
But this brings me to my next important point:
NOT ALL DRAMA CAN BE AVOIDED OR IGNORED!!!
As much as it is, life is filled with inevitable drama. Things such as bills, cars breaking down, paying rent, difficult co-workers on the job, family differences, love life, etc. When I posted my journal a while ago about the fandom being used as a means of escape:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1262596/ - Journal
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3551731 - Journal as Submission
my intention was to mention how some people were using it as a means to get away from real life. How people were getting way too involved and forgetting the important things that make real life what it is: real life.
However, after the recent brew-ha-ha my latest journal created, there's another thing I want to add onto it.
IF THE FANDOM IS TO IMPROVE, WE MUST ALSO FACE ISSUES REGARDING THE FANDOM ITSELF!!!
In retrospect, I could have used a different example than what could probably be argued as the biggest drama-storm in recent history here within the fandom. However, at the same time, it also gave me a glimpse at some of the UGLIEST aspects the fandom has. Trolls, hate, grudges, and then some! This drama storm had/has it all!
But why?!
I've heard people say that trolls are inevitable, okay, but why must this fandom have more trolls than any others? Why are these trolls so cruel? In my last journal, I quoted a comment where someone said that someone should just DIE! THEY WANTED SOMEONE DEAD! This isn't like the Console Wars where a troll says that one console sucks while another console rules, NO! This person commented they wanted someone DEAD!?
Troll or not, that's not cool!
And the journal I referred to was so full of hate and disgust towards a person that just paid them back. It is my understanding that there's a lot of bad blood between the two of them, and a long history as well. Even so, I would think that given a positive thing such as getting their money back would at least keep them from writing such hateful things. I'm not saying they'll forgive the other person or suddenly do a 180 and praise them, but I would hope that they would at least have the decency to not use it as a means to go on a warpath against this person.
Grudges are a terrible thing, but as mature people, we should be capable of forgiving others. This isn't a religious thing either, this is a human thing! As human beings, we should be able to live and let live. We should be able to forgive those who have wronged us, and let water be under the bridge. The fact that some people can be so bitter bothers me, and makes me wonder what the underlying problem is.
This was what prompted me to write my last journal. However, apparently, trying to find out that underlying problem apparently elicits a LOT of negativity. I get people saying I'm opening old wounds, that it's none of my business, that it's something best left alone, and if it's a deeply personal problem, then yeah, you're right.
BUT THE ISSUE AT HAND ISN'T PERSONAL AS IT APPLIES TO THE FANDOM AS A WHOLE!
In which case, what's so wrong about digging for answers? For truth? For the causes behind what makes certain drama happen? If the root of the problem is known, then a solution can be found, right?
And most importantly, people need to take a good long look at themselves to figure out what's important and what matters. They also need to ask questions of themselves and the environment around them.
Answers can not be found if Questions are never asked.
If we just go along merrily without questioning that which is around us, then we are no better than sheep or cattle. It is our right as SENTIENT BEINGS to question ourselves and the world around us. If we don't then we learn nothing of ourselves or of our environment. And when something happens to cause a stir, we can't just bury it and walk away because it can happen again...
...and again...
...and again...
...and again!
History repeats itself to those who don't learn it. That's why I want to learn more about what happened, who was involved, why did things go down the way they did, when did it all start, how did it get this way, where did it go wrong, and so on.
Sometimes, to put an end to drama requires questioning and examining the drama that's already happened in order to be able to learn from it so it doesn't happen again. It may require stepping on a few toes, and it may require finding out some ugly things that we as a fandom don't want to admit about ourselves.
But if we don't look, then we'll never learn and never know.
I'm willing to bet that many outside the fandom consider many in the fandom to be sheep. It doesn't matter what character you have, what your "fursona" is, or what you think you are; to them everyone here are sheep who follow along blindly.
A friend of mine likes to sarcastically say that the fandom is "accepting, forgiving, friendly and oh so tolerant". Dissecting his sarcasm, I was able to figure out:
"The fandom is always accepting because we accept no one."
"The fandom is always forgiving because everyone is guilty."
"The fandom is always friendly because we hate everyone."
"The fandom is always tolerant because we can't stand anyone."
This is a rather cynical approach to the fandom from an outsider's point of view, but at the same time, it's not entirely wrong either. There are some rather ugly spots in the fandom and within ourselves that we need to look at. It's like combing your hair without a mirror. How are we supposed to make our hair look good if we don't have a way to look at it? At the same time, how are we going to make the fandom and ourselves look good if we don't address the bad stuff. You can't just cover it up, you have to actually take action and do something.
THIS
THIS is the point I wanted to make in the last journal, and it kinda went in a different direction than I had intended, but at the same time, it also gave an even bigger glimpse at some of the ugly spots we as a fandom have. We have to be willing to look at the past and learn from it, otherwise we are doomed to repeat it. That means that there will be another drama storm, probably with somebody else about something else, but a drama storm of equal or greater proportion than the one we've already had.
Do we really want that? I know I don't!
That's why we have to look at ourselves, find the ugly spots, and make them better. Whether it be improving our tact and manners, whether it be showing more compassion to those in need, or whether it be simply taking a stand and speaking out about something we don't like (EVEN if it means that you might get some opposition), we NEED to fix those ugly spots if we are to improve as human beings.
That means being able to give compassion.
That means being able to be honest.
That means being able to show honor.
That means being able to have some faith in others.
That means being able to muster up some valor.
That means being able to make sacrifices.
That means being able to call for justice.
That means being able to admit our own mistakes.
We aren't savage, mindless animals ready to prey on the weak should the opportunity arise. We are sentient people capable of great things. I myself don't consider myself great. I am one guy who just happened to have an idea that things could be better around here. The people who are really great are you ADLM members who are willing to hear me out and listen. Even greater are the good deeds that you do on a daily basis. I myself have my own life, my own moral compass, and I can't force anyone to change just as no one can change who I am. But people that are willing to change for the good, who strive for good, and who take action for what is good are the ones who are exceptionally great.
I know this may seem rather ironic, saying this here, but as a parting note, I have one question I want people to ask yourself:
"Are We Men? Or Are We Mice?"
~Otaku-Man
That's a FANTASTIC number! I can't believe there are so many people interested in this movement. It makes me glad to know that there are so many people out there who care about the movement.
At the same time, I should also apologize since I have to admit that when I wrote the last journal, I was a bit frustrated at a lot of things at the time, and may have gone a bit overboard. But even so, I'm not going to change it, delete it, or alter it for any reason since I said what I said, and I'm not going to take it back. I will, however, apologize for upsetting some of you, though, and for those of you who did get upset, I am sorry.
But at the same time, this gave me a chance to get a look at how many of you out there think drama, in general, should be treated. One of the more common comments I saw were from people saying that it should just be ignored. That given time, the drama would just go away. I saw comments saying that bringing up touchy subjects would re-open old wounds and incite negative emotions. And in some cases, yes, this is the right thing to do.
Take for example two people arguing over the Pokemon Combat Academy Role Play being held here on FA. (
PokeCombatAcademy if you're interested. ) One of the rules states that only game admins or faculty (game managers) are allowed to be the "Legendary" Pokemon. All students and others have to be the regular Pokemon. So one person tries to join with a student that's a "Legendary" and another player goes "HEY! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!"Things devolve into name calling, "I'm telling!", and general flame wars where friends soon take sides and it just goes downhill from there. In situations like these, YES! Just walk away! Just letting it go and ignoring it will solve EVERYTHING. This is because this is something VERY PETTY! Something that is so insignificant and minute that the only reason it exists is that both parties are incapable of either walking away, or just letting things slide. It's also possible to diffuse situations like this when a 3rd party comes in and plays the mediator. They help get both sides to an agreement that works for the both of them.
One thing I believe is that if many people on FA had better social skills and manners, a lot of needless drama can be avoided by being tactful and polite enough to walk away or diffuse a situation.
I had an artist friend of mine come to me once saying they had a problem. They had been contacted by someone who wanted to pay them for art that they could then resell. My friends initial reaction was to tell them off, but was worried that would cause some kind of backlash. After thinking about it for a moment, I said that a better solution would be to ask for more details instead of just brushing them off. My friend wouldn't be saying yes, but at the same time, putting the ball back in the commissioner's court. If they came back all uppity and snotty, then I told my friend that they had every right to tell them off after that. However, the other person replied with information and a chance to learn more about what they were planning on doing. Again, my friend wasn't sure how to respond since they didn't feel comfortable. So I helped them write a reply saying that they politely declined because they weren't 100% comfortable with the arrangement, but at the same time thanked the person for their interest and welcomed them to my friend's regular commissions if they were interested. My friend got a new watcher because of this, and the matter was diffused peacefully with both sides in agreement.
With some carefully chosen words and a professional demeanor, my artist friend was able to get out of a rather uncomfortable situation while saving face, and even making a new watcher in the process. (Granted I helped them with the choice of words, but even so, I've had quite a bit of practice.)
But this brings me to my next important point:
NOT ALL DRAMA CAN BE AVOIDED OR IGNORED!!!
As much as it is, life is filled with inevitable drama. Things such as bills, cars breaking down, paying rent, difficult co-workers on the job, family differences, love life, etc. When I posted my journal a while ago about the fandom being used as a means of escape:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1262596/ - Journal
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3551731 - Journal as Submission
my intention was to mention how some people were using it as a means to get away from real life. How people were getting way too involved and forgetting the important things that make real life what it is: real life.
However, after the recent brew-ha-ha my latest journal created, there's another thing I want to add onto it.
IF THE FANDOM IS TO IMPROVE, WE MUST ALSO FACE ISSUES REGARDING THE FANDOM ITSELF!!!
In retrospect, I could have used a different example than what could probably be argued as the biggest drama-storm in recent history here within the fandom. However, at the same time, it also gave me a glimpse at some of the UGLIEST aspects the fandom has. Trolls, hate, grudges, and then some! This drama storm had/has it all!
But why?!
I've heard people say that trolls are inevitable, okay, but why must this fandom have more trolls than any others? Why are these trolls so cruel? In my last journal, I quoted a comment where someone said that someone should just DIE! THEY WANTED SOMEONE DEAD! This isn't like the Console Wars where a troll says that one console sucks while another console rules, NO! This person commented they wanted someone DEAD!?
Troll or not, that's not cool!
And the journal I referred to was so full of hate and disgust towards a person that just paid them back. It is my understanding that there's a lot of bad blood between the two of them, and a long history as well. Even so, I would think that given a positive thing such as getting their money back would at least keep them from writing such hateful things. I'm not saying they'll forgive the other person or suddenly do a 180 and praise them, but I would hope that they would at least have the decency to not use it as a means to go on a warpath against this person.
Grudges are a terrible thing, but as mature people, we should be capable of forgiving others. This isn't a religious thing either, this is a human thing! As human beings, we should be able to live and let live. We should be able to forgive those who have wronged us, and let water be under the bridge. The fact that some people can be so bitter bothers me, and makes me wonder what the underlying problem is.
This was what prompted me to write my last journal. However, apparently, trying to find out that underlying problem apparently elicits a LOT of negativity. I get people saying I'm opening old wounds, that it's none of my business, that it's something best left alone, and if it's a deeply personal problem, then yeah, you're right.
BUT THE ISSUE AT HAND ISN'T PERSONAL AS IT APPLIES TO THE FANDOM AS A WHOLE!
In which case, what's so wrong about digging for answers? For truth? For the causes behind what makes certain drama happen? If the root of the problem is known, then a solution can be found, right?
And most importantly, people need to take a good long look at themselves to figure out what's important and what matters. They also need to ask questions of themselves and the environment around them.
Answers can not be found if Questions are never asked.
If we just go along merrily without questioning that which is around us, then we are no better than sheep or cattle. It is our right as SENTIENT BEINGS to question ourselves and the world around us. If we don't then we learn nothing of ourselves or of our environment. And when something happens to cause a stir, we can't just bury it and walk away because it can happen again...
...and again...
...and again...
...and again!
History repeats itself to those who don't learn it. That's why I want to learn more about what happened, who was involved, why did things go down the way they did, when did it all start, how did it get this way, where did it go wrong, and so on.
Sometimes, to put an end to drama requires questioning and examining the drama that's already happened in order to be able to learn from it so it doesn't happen again. It may require stepping on a few toes, and it may require finding out some ugly things that we as a fandom don't want to admit about ourselves.
But if we don't look, then we'll never learn and never know.
I'm willing to bet that many outside the fandom consider many in the fandom to be sheep. It doesn't matter what character you have, what your "fursona" is, or what you think you are; to them everyone here are sheep who follow along blindly.
A friend of mine likes to sarcastically say that the fandom is "accepting, forgiving, friendly and oh so tolerant". Dissecting his sarcasm, I was able to figure out:
"The fandom is always accepting because we accept no one."
"The fandom is always forgiving because everyone is guilty."
"The fandom is always friendly because we hate everyone."
"The fandom is always tolerant because we can't stand anyone."
This is a rather cynical approach to the fandom from an outsider's point of view, but at the same time, it's not entirely wrong either. There are some rather ugly spots in the fandom and within ourselves that we need to look at. It's like combing your hair without a mirror. How are we supposed to make our hair look good if we don't have a way to look at it? At the same time, how are we going to make the fandom and ourselves look good if we don't address the bad stuff. You can't just cover it up, you have to actually take action and do something.
THIS
THIS is the point I wanted to make in the last journal, and it kinda went in a different direction than I had intended, but at the same time, it also gave an even bigger glimpse at some of the ugly spots we as a fandom have. We have to be willing to look at the past and learn from it, otherwise we are doomed to repeat it. That means that there will be another drama storm, probably with somebody else about something else, but a drama storm of equal or greater proportion than the one we've already had.
Do we really want that? I know I don't!
That's why we have to look at ourselves, find the ugly spots, and make them better. Whether it be improving our tact and manners, whether it be showing more compassion to those in need, or whether it be simply taking a stand and speaking out about something we don't like (EVEN if it means that you might get some opposition), we NEED to fix those ugly spots if we are to improve as human beings.
That means being able to give compassion.
That means being able to be honest.
That means being able to show honor.
That means being able to have some faith in others.
That means being able to muster up some valor.
That means being able to make sacrifices.
That means being able to call for justice.
That means being able to admit our own mistakes.
We aren't savage, mindless animals ready to prey on the weak should the opportunity arise. We are sentient people capable of great things. I myself don't consider myself great. I am one guy who just happened to have an idea that things could be better around here. The people who are really great are you ADLM members who are willing to hear me out and listen. Even greater are the good deeds that you do on a daily basis. I myself have my own life, my own moral compass, and I can't force anyone to change just as no one can change who I am. But people that are willing to change for the good, who strive for good, and who take action for what is good are the ones who are exceptionally great.
I know this may seem rather ironic, saying this here, but as a parting note, I have one question I want people to ask yourself:
"Are We Men? Or Are We Mice?"
~Otaku-Man
Thank you for Reading! If you want to subscribe to these journals and keep up to date on what's happening, feel free to subscribe by watching 
Anti-Drama_Llama_Movement You can also keep up to date on who needs help on FA at our other newsletter, the 
ADLM_Daily_Spotlight 
Anti-Drama_Llama_Movement
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Just link them to the submission and ask them if they can delete the offending posts. I've found the admins to be very helpful in this regard, as it is much easier for them to do this, than to have to deal with any drama that might arise if you choose to fight back.
This will also put the people leaving these posts on notice, and if they continue to make harassing posts, they can get banned.
On a serious note though. You have a good point. I've seen so many artists break down, go on hiatus or flat out leave completely because of the animosity in the fandom. They just get fed up with it all and leave.
I find it depressing that this community is so negative that we're actually forcing artists and fans out now because of all of the drama.
Something needs to be done before this kills the fandom. And it will if it goes unchecked for too long. Eventually FA will be nothing more that a furry 4chan.
Jokes aside, I think it's really cool what you do. Everything I've read of yours makes clear sense and from what I can tell, is the plain and simple truth. It's also nice to see that other people see eye to eye on these matters! Heh, heck. Heh, nice to know you're not the only one asking 'WHY?!?' sometimes. n.n
Way to tell off that drama lama! Love the work, keep it up! :D
Even better if those 792 are as active as you in the anti-drama crusade.
One of the more common comments I saw were from people saying that it should just be ignored. That given time, the drama would just go away.
There has already been more than enough heads in the sand, which is why furdom has gone so far down the slippery slope. Those with their heads in the sand (and asses in the air) will say they don't want to start anything, want to get along, fear if they say something they'll be ostracized. Bad behavior, if left uncorrected continues as bad behavior or worse, because NO one issued checks and balances.
One thing I believe is that if many people on FA had better social skills and manners, a lot of needless drama can be avoided by being tactful and polite enough to walk away or diffuse a situation.
Social skills and manners aren't hip, rad or kewl, duder (heh). It's more cool, y'know, to use the slackerspeak, y'know. Also it's hip and rad to use the creative mizspellingz, y'know, duder, lol, omfg, wtf. rotffl. What would all my buds at lulz think of me if I had social skills and manners, y'know, duder?
I couldn't resist. Social skills and manners are more the domain of the "greymuzzles". The youngsters want to continue to act like hyenas, hoping they'll be accepted into the pack.
IF THE FANDOM IS TO IMPROVE, WE MUST ALSO FACE ISSUES REGARDING THE FANDOM ITSELF!!!
True, but very few want to face those issues, especially the utopians who firmly believe furdom is just fine as is.
Grudges are a terrible thing, but as mature people, we should be capable of forgiving others. This isn't a religious thing either, this is a human thing! As human beings, we should be able to live and let live. We should be able to forgive those who have wronged us, and let water be under the bridge. The fact that some people can be so bitter bothers me, and makes me wonder what the underlying problem is.
Grudges or being bitter isn't terrible to me. In fact, they sustain me. If anything grudges show that both parties are being honest in their hatred of each other, and I appreciate honesty. As for forgiving, let THEM sac up, step up and do e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g within their power to mend fences; NOT just give a half-hearted "Sor-RY", then throw up hands and proclaim "I TRIED" when their half-hearted apology isn't accepted. As a wronged party, I firmly believe I have the right to expect the wrongdoers to make the initial attempt. When I believe the apologist is sincere, I'll accept the apology, yet maintain a degree of caution until that person has proven themselves worthy of trust, which must be earned.
In which case, what's so wrong about digging for answers? For truth? For the causes behind what makes certain drama happen? If the root of the problem is known, then a solution can be found, right?
The utopians will battle you TTD on that one. They DON'T want any truths revealed.
I'm willing to bet that many outside the fandom consider many in the fandom to be sheep. It doesn't matter what character you have, what your "fursona" is, or what you think you are; to them everyone here are sheep who follow along blindly.
I'm one of those who looks down on the flocks and herds in furdom. Even funnier is when some of them think they're white knighting or gallantly protecting the furdom by piling on someone. White knight, hell, they're more like the carnictis at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LRuCLkXgPo , or hyenas.
That means being able to give compassion.
Nar...they're more into giving passion.
That means being able to be honest.
They're only honest in their hatred.
That means being able to show honor.
The only time they show honor is when they loudly broadcast that their fursona is some sort of master lord samurai with bushido clusters.
That means being able to have some faith in others.
The only faith they have is that their favorite artgod will purp out more spoogeart.
That means being able to muster up some valor.
ONLY if they attack in groups like the carnictis and hyenas.
That means being able to make sacrifices.
They're more like Templeton the rat from "Charlotte's Web". "What's in it for me?"
That means being able to call for justice.
The utopians DON'T want justice, unless they can control it. They'd run like the Blue Meanies at the end of "Yellow Submarine" if there was a ethical housecleaning of furdom.
That means being able to admit our own mistakes.
The utopians will claim they don't make mistakes, that all is perfect and good in furdom.
Yes, I know. A VERY cynical look at furdom. However, it's a brutally HONEST cynicism. I was in it for seven years, I've been watching from the outer perimeter for ten years. I've no regard or respect for furdom. My regard, respect and admiration are for those who are in my circle of friends, associates and acquaintances; for the fans who do appreciate the non-perverted/pornographic aspects of furdom; and to
It is drama, but I think banning people posting cub porn or anything meant to be erotic is a good thing. Society doesn't like it. Loophole or not, it's bad. Right? Same with vore.
This place should not be a safe haven for artists to do ANYTHING they please and be bad in a barely legal way.
I swear, if my favorite artist got banned from here I'd dance a jig. I know it would never happen, because even if the admins were to view her art and say "Sorry, you're too sick to be here" all of her fans will cry and shout and the admins will leave their spine on the nightstand and let her come back.
It doesn't matter if they're nice people or not. "But she is just so NICE to me!"
If they are posting artwork that is offensive to an entire genre of real life then if it is within our legal right to keep them out it is our DUTY to kick 'em out. It is our RESPONSIBILITY. How many people post legit art, porn or not, just legit unintimidating art? It's the sickos, perverts, and sexual deviants that give furry a bad name in CSI and Stroker and Hoop and MTV. We are not viewed as individuals by the outside world. I don't have any naked pics up. If someone came up to me and asked if I was a furry and I said yes, I'm not me, as a furry. I am a grain of sand in the fandom and I represent the good and bad. If they find this rediculous porn insulting, then I am viewed as being guilty by association.
I don't even admit I am a furry. My furry art is not hanging on a wall, it's in a box. How sad is that? Because I'm ashamed of the fandom. I don't want to be standing next to some 90 pound geek wearing fox ears and a tail and scritching people walking by as he says "Yiff... yiffy... yiff", I will be standing outside admiring the cars just so people don't think I'm with him.
I tried "trying honor" with those that annoy me. It doesn't work if you're talking... they have to listen. Being honorable cost me a lot and I got nothin' to show for it.
Forgiveness... I'll forgive the little humpy bunny and all her friends when they stop knowingly, willingly, and uncaringly stop disrespecting for the sake of their own jollies. No sense in forgiving a murderer when he's still killing a man, is there? They will NEVER... EVER... EVERRRR stop. I don't mind tasteful nudes. Just keep some subject matter out of it.
"In which case, what's so wrong about digging for answers? For truth? For the causes behind what makes certain drama happen? If the root of the problem is known, then a solution can be found, right?"
Wrong, sorry bro. I don't mean to be disrespectful here. I know I come off as it. But a solution will only do good if the problem is willing to be solved. If it means they have to stop fapping you'll never succeed without flatout banning them.
BANNING things like inappropriate porn is a big step. Don't ban all porn, porn can be a good thing. But if it's sick... block 'em and ban 'em. But I know it will never happen. The admins lack the BALLS to do such. They lack the INTESTINAL FORTITUDE to say "We need to keep a higher moral class here. Some of you have to go." because they fear the low lifes might look down on them.
seriously, huge rant about how porn you find offensive should be banned posted in a journal made by the ADLM? Whoa.
Relax. The porn is part of the fandom. No matter how much you hate it, it's not going to go away.
If we want outside public to look at us without judging then the first thing we need to do is clean up our image. Otherwise we're just "dog and cat humping sexual deviants out to get their children next."
Nobody outside my life knows I'm a furry, it drew very negative attention at two jobs of mine.
Porn is not bad. Fucking children, fucking people in comas, fucking people who have no say in the matter... if you think that's not sick then I'm keeping the hell away from you.
I disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but this journal isn't the place to argue about it.
If you do not want to see such 'horrible' things... dont click on it. And dont watch people who create it. "Oh but their other art is so good!" So turn off your adult content features, or POLITELY ask the artists if they could put a warning thumbnail on any 'extreme' art so your warned and dont accidentally click on it. I know many artists who, when asked nicely, will do such.
FA is about freedom. Freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom to show off things that THEY cant otherwise express. Yes, some of it is sick, dirty, twisted and 'gives the fandom a bad name' But my favorite quote is "We have no more perverts and deviants then any other fandom. Ours just happen to be far more open about it." Which is very VERY true.
The admins dont ban what you might be considered 'sick' because FA IS a place about being able to post what they cannot elsewhere. It is why it has become such a huge part of the fandom. If anything they have the BALLS and INTESTINAL FORTITUDE to allow it, despite people like you who are raging because you dont like what you see. And to stand up to the rest of the world who may also condemn them and tell them that freedom of expression is a right, and if you dont like it, dont look at it.
Do I like everything that the fandom cranks out? Gods no. Do I whine and cry about it? No. Do I look at it? Not if I cant help it. Have I asked certain artists to put thumbnails on their extreme art? You bet. Have they done it? Every time I have asked, they have. Why? Because I asked nicely. I like their other art. I dont want to un-watch someone who otherwise has amazing art, for the few random postings of stuff that makes me want to wretch or gouge my eyes out.
Do I like or agree with everything the admins have done? No. Have I told them as such? Yes. In a calm and rational manner, in private notes so as not to bring drama to public journals or forums.
In the end, being a troll accomplishes nothing. Responding as a calm, reasonable adult gets far more positive results.
I have to see the horrible things, because I have to see the results of what happens when some of these more freakish fetishists comes unhinged and decides blowing cocksnot into a sock just aint cutting the furbiscuit anymore. It happens a lot more than you see, if every instance where someone loses control of their fetish made the news you would be utterly and completely blown out of the water. Not just in furry, but just in indecent porn at all. I see the aftermath often enough to know "Turning a blind eye because it's bad in the name of acceptance" is a blatant insult to society. Too much freedom leads to anarchy, and when there is anarchy the people who can't swat down obsticles die.
And what happens if one of these guys does come unhinged? What if one of these FA rape fetishists loses it and rapes someone? Fender and the other admins may be called into question. I know any prosecuter I know would be putting them on the stand. You may THINK you're ready, willing, and able but I promise you this... if you haven't been cross examined and had to look a victim or their families in the eye while the person who victimized them glares at you, you are not ready and it won't be as easy as you think, not by a fraction. I have had to be character witness. All it was in the end was a fetishist who pics wouldn't cut it anymore. Toys wouldn't work anymore. The natural last step was to TAKE what he wanted.
He was executed by the state, by the way. How would you like that weight hanging over you?
How would the admins react when cross examining begins? "Did you know Mr. Furburger was into a rape fetish?"
"yes?"
"Is that a question or an answer?"
"Yes."
"Were you aware they uploaded over 700 images related to the fetish?"
"To an extent, I was aware."
"They also engaged in RPs? Correct? On a nightly basis?"
"I can't say one way or the other."
"You didn't see anything wrong with that? There were no red flags?"
Trust me, there is no right answer that wouldn't make the site look like a partner in crime. The whole "It doesn't matter how vile your fetish is, you're safe here, you can express yourself freely!" will be used against you all. You might not be charged with anything... though some shit on here... considering a man is on trial because he had a loli mag... might just get this place shut down.
Lastly, I can't put blinders on because it's inconveniant. It's because it's wrong to ignore the bad in society to avoid rocking the boat. It gets people hurt, you don't see it because you just turn away. I can't respect that or anyone who can do that.
What YOU seem to want is a world in which nothing you dont like happens. But that is not the case. And as such, I would rather see fictional characters violated in any which way and perversion someone has, then to see them act it out IRL.
In the end, MILLIONS of people online RP or draw our write out such fantasies and NEVER act upon it, and MOST of them are not in this fandom. Its the slim few who do. And if they end up raping or murdering or molesting someone, you cannot blame someone else for their actions, because it is ultimately THEIR actions. You can never see into the mind of someone else and know how they are going to act. And the moment you, or the government starts to put a curb on anyone's imagination or fantasies, is the day I will happily leave said country. That imagination may be sick and twisted, but in the end it is YOUR imagination.
That is like saying you have to ban Highlander from TV, because some retarded kids got it into their heads that it was real and one ended up decapitating another. Or the mornoic kids who were playing a D&D fantasy and ended up killing one of their friends. Guess its time to ban all those books least their imaginations end up hurting someone.
Perhaps you would be more happy in China... They have this communism thing there I think you would really get along peachy keen with. Most of the country hates it, but it sounds right up your ally. You can live in a happy bubble wrapped world of which the government has complete control over. (And an FYI, no one even knows how many rapes and murders happen there because those poor repressed people never hear about it.. the government has little happy cleanup squads that try and make them 'dissapear' Same for the MASSIVE amount of suicides. And the poor women who may have been raped dont say a thing because they would be dishonored and often beaten for 'allowing' herself to be raped) And somehow.. with all those restrictions on their net access and such, I doubt most of those murderers and rapists are online posting their fantasies. Their just DOING it because its the only way for them to release such urges for them.
I do not turn a blind eye to it. I know it is there. Do I like it? No. Is it hurting anyone? Not really, except for maybe your brain. So if it is NOT hurting anyone, and their NOT acting out on their urges irl, tell me why I should care? I cannot jump to a conclusion that if they draw it they will do it, because for 98% of them, they DONT. It is something you have to take with a large lump of salt.
Friends playing D&D, act out a scene and kill someone accidentally. No, don't ban the entire thing. Ban them from doing it. Take it away from them. Watch those who have all have the similar profiles and watch the profiles closely. If need be, take it from THEM.
You KNOW that if they draw the same type of thing over and over and over again hundreds of times or tens of hundreds of times statistically they're doing more than just drawing it. I can only hope some of these laws pass, for when their art comes down I will dance a jig on their account pages as they cry in unison "FURSECUTION!"
It will be a while, maybe never, but I can dream. Certain things should not be celebrated publically. It's in poor taste. It's of no moral fiber.
And it does hurt people. Not just my meager little insignificant mind and my oh so fragile ego. As I said... you need to spend more time in a court room. You need some eye opening experiences. Sad it would have to come to that, you think your protecting something good.
But you're not. I only hope you don't pay the price. I did. It cost me the happiest time in my life. A time I'll never see again. All because of a fetish. You're choosing to ignore the math. This site has the RIGHT to say "no cub art. No rape. No vore. No pedophilia" instead you choose to NURTURE those fetishes. Protecting people who often ARE sexual predators, just not caught yet.
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=11785 This is how the public sees furries. You're okay with this? I seriously doubt that if it were you in those tails and someone walked up to pick on you teasing and laughing... you'd feel pretty picked on, wouldn't you. You have all those furries who misbehave and act rediculous in public to thank for that as much as a closed minded society.
It's clear you nor any FA admins give a fuck about how bad the fandom's image is. Just so long as you can burp the worm before going to bed at night. Am I right or am I right?
And those kids who ended up killing each other, you have no way to guarantee that others wont do it to. So by your logic, we have to remove it from everyone to prevent the stupidity that MIGHT happen, even though the cases of such are small.
And as a side note, when I said "Is it hurting anyone? Not really, except for maybe your brain." I wasn't referring to yo your brain in specific. More of a generalized 'your brain' as in the brain of anyone who see's it and is offended by it. Im sorry if it came across as otherwise.
As for that people of walmart thing? Who cares. If wearing a tail makes them comfortable, and happy, let them. I have several times, though not often. Do I get odd looks? Yes. Do I get asked questions? Sure do. And I answer them truthfully. I am NOT ashamed to be a furry and I have NEVER had an adverse reaction to the fact that I am one, and those who had uncertain reactions I have explained to them that no, were not all sexual deviants. Were just more open about our sexuality then most, and the majority of furrs simply like looking at anthropomorphic art that is neither dirty or perverse. I freely and openly admit it to people and no one has a problem with it. I have fur art on my walls (nothing beyond clean nudes), and even a statue of my fursona on my shelf. I have never been called a 'furvert' or anything of the sort. If you are ashamed of being a furry, then perhaps you should find a fandom you can feel more comfortable in.
At conclusion, I do not think that either one of us is going to come to any sort of an agreement on this. And it is best to just part ways with an agreement to disagree. We would just continue to butt heads with differing views that would get us no where.
A modicum of civility, taking time to understand the situation before jumping in and reacting emotionally, and keeping in mind there's a whole lovely world outside your computer screen will do wonders as well.
A good guideline is this; If you really don't believe there's anything wrong with what you're doing, you're not seeking trouble, doing anything to attract negative attention or hurt anyone, you're being nice, kind and civil, and someone still wants to give you grief, let that be about them. Remain detached and ignore/diffuse it.
I think the best thing we can do is to lessen the sense of hostility and animosity between ourselves and other furs who disagree with, or object to our own ways of believing. The way we can do this is to strengthen bonds of kindness and friendship among ourselves, and extend these bonds to those who don't necessarily agree with us as well. Some disagreements can be tempered by understanding.
What is right? What is wrong? When have I been hurt and when is it not okay? The trouble is that, in a group which is as large as Furry has become lately, (never mind society at large or the human race as a whole), there's never going to be agreement. That's what causes drama.
I say information wants to be free; you say that you created this and have a right to profit from it.
I say it's wrong to make a fetish of those who don't or can't agree to it; you say as long as nobody is hurt, it's okay.
I say that I've been treated wrongfully; you say it's my own fault so shut up and you're going to make fun of me until I do.
...because of conflicting opinions of what is okay and what is not. Otakuman, you ask why we can't all just get along. It's because there are too many of us to agree on what's okay. Luckily, there's a much smaller group who are responsible for saying what's okay and what isn't on FA; no prize for guessing that I mean Dragoneer and his crew. As for Furry as a whole, well, you could try to assemble a Code of Furry Ethics and promote it around the world. I sure won't try to stop you. It might be the best Code of Ethics ever created. You might even get some of us to follow it. Prophets tend to die young, though. (Look at Jesus and His disciples for instance, or The Bab, or Martin Luther King.)
It might be more effective to teach ways of tolerating drama than to try to end it.
However, the Anti-Drama Llama Movement wouldn't be Anti-Drama if we tolerated drama. Sure there are some cases where there's not much we can do in certain situations, but that doesn't mean that we have to like it.
For those situations where we can do something, I say people just need to learn the better ways to handle the drama without making the drama worse.
These are the social skills, the manners, the virtues, that if people actually took the time to work on and practice them, then a lot of un-necessary drama can be negated.
I'd actually like to talk to you some more over messenger if that's alright. You can find my AIM and YIM on my personal FA page, and if you prefer MSN, just shoot me a PM and I'll PM you my MSN name.
~Otaku-Man
I'll add you to my AIM and YIM accounts ASAP, but I'm not sure how soon that might be.
To be honest, those are things that don't have to get out of hand, in SOME cases yes it is inevitable, but your whole point evolved from a case that could have been easily avoided.
Also, ALL INTERNET DRAMA CAN BE IGNORED, but if you get involved with it, or start it with your own actions, it's like slanderous media. The more attention you draw to the drama, the more attention that is going to be payed to it by the media and then by everyone who uses the media.
I wouldn't say the trolls in the furry fandom are more nasty then trolls I've seen in other fandoms. Personally, I've noticed that the larger a site or fandom is, or the more people that frequent the site, the more trolls that site tends to have, and that isn't the first time I've seen death threats on petty subjects.
Trolls enjoy messing with people, and if they find a subject that people will get defensive over, trolls will do everything in their power to get a reaction from those people.
Youtube had some particularly nasty troll problems, one of the ways they deal with it is a "ratings" system that allows viewers to vote down comments, essentially allowing the community to monitor itself, although that system comes with problems of its own.
- - -
Aside from the trolls, there are people out there who grew up with conflict, and create it as part of their daily life. Some people naturally respond in ways that will create drama, because that is how they've grown up and drama is what they feel comfortable with. Often, they will refuse solutions to their problems, or respond with other problems or more drama.
With these kinds of people, the fastest, most effective way to remove their drama from your life is simply to ignore them, possibly with blocking. Some can be talked down, and eventually "rehabilitated" into a drama-free life, but not everyone is willing to leave the drama behind. Some people really do thrive on conflict.
This is probably the main reason "ignoring" has become the standard for dealing with internet drama.
- - -
It seems the other major source of internet drama is simply that people come from a wide range of backgrounds, with many differing personal experiences, and as such different people will have different reactions with different ideas on the same subject. Often the strength of the reaction depends on the strength of the personal experience.
This is the kind of drama that social skills and tolerance can help avoid.
- - -
Also, everyone has their own share of personal problems and life issues that we all need to deal with. As long as people don't blow these problems out of proportion and we keep discussions civil, I'm reluctant to group these problems with the other kinds of internet drama.
After all, part of the reason we have friends is so that we can help and support each other. When drama happens in real life, talking about it can help people get over the situation, and brainstorm solutions. If a solution is found, then the source of the drama can be fixed.
However, if there's a posting about a source of real life drama, and the posting is more about how the situation is "unfairly" effecting the poster, and goes on about negative feelings resulting from such, then the poster is concentrating on feelings connected to the situation, not the situation itself. This is where the "drama" comes in.
In other words, life drama can be categorized two ways:
1) Constructive discussion - objective
Constructively dealing with or talking about the situation, trying to find a solution to the problem, can also be alerting others to the source of the drama, so they may possibly avoid it in the future
2) Destructive discussion - subjective
Whining about how unfair the situation is, talking about how upset you are and how mean the opposing party is, trying to get people on your side of an argument, how the whole world is "against you", vilifying the opposing party, name calling, etc
Destructive Drama makes other people feel bad, dealing with it is draining and often upsetting. As such, should be avoided if possible.
http://tv.gawker.com/5506453/trolli.....f-the-internet
~Otaku-Man
It can be easy to think of some of these issues as only relating to the fandom, or as how it effects your personal life, but these issues are very widespread through our modern psychological culture, and across the world.