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The Sanctity of Marriage
14 years ago
Personally, I find "protecting the sanctity of marriage" an odd notion. We're not stopping divorce. 50% of marriages never last. Cheating isn't illegal. Just ask Tiger. Hugh Hefner marrying a woman 60 years his younger? Fine. 'Til death do you part? A lawyer can fix that. Five or six times for some people.
Yet, two women/men want to hook up...
We're not protecting marriage. We're just stopping gays.
I know this has been stated before, but it still needs to be stressed.
Yet, two women/men want to hook up...
We're not protecting marriage. We're just stopping gays.
I know this has been stated before, but it still needs to be stressed.
*improves chassis*
You've done it before, it should be easy.
[I had to]
I specifically stated 'you' to get across a point :3
Made with buttuh and luv!
And despite the fact that the 1st amendment does not put an iron curtain between the federal government and churches. The phrase "respecting an establishment of religion" referred to declaring an official state church. Plus the ban on "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" means that it's better to be hands off even bringing religion into it, because it gets thorny.
Anyway, marriage is a state-regulated 'business', the Federal Government has relatively little say in recognition of it.
It may be legal to get married in Massachusetts for example, but that is only good for 1) that state 2) US couples.
Not quite, it extends to giving government support to any particular religion or set of religions/religious positions other than the universal set.
...I think the problem is people just don't know how to get along or actually work for their relationships anymore. It's sad, but people seem to think marriage will be some sort of fix all bandage that'll make everything right as rain. *Sigh*
My husband and I are soulmates, but we've even discussed things like, "what if I get burned in a fire and am horribly disfigured?" or, "what if I get into a car accident, suffer brain damage, and become a totally different person?" These are things any healthy relationship should be able to handle discussing, and in an open relationship or marriage, similar discussions need to be up for discussion. I'm glad that you two were able to handle it.
This of course works both ways, if he were going out.
this'd be mine. drunk girls are all over him at parties. I find it adorable.
Not to invalidate your point. You are absolutely correct, as always.
Have all the casual sex you want, I'm not about to have sex with you, or anyone you may have come in contact with.
Now buttoneyetis, that's no laughing matter...
That's why I like to ask.
I just get REALLY itchy fingers when someone mentions one-night-stands.
There, problem solved.
I'll take "what really happens" over anyone saying "it can't happen" each and every time.
Civil marriage, civil union, butt buddies, I really couldn't give any more of a damn.
Also: some of your FC pix are hilarious.
Binding yourself to another 'in the eyes of God'
I think we should argue about the athiests getting married, instead. B|
rofl
Oh, where I live, it is, and religious marriage have no value except for the religions, of course...
BTW I don't see why it must be "sanctified" or something... It's just two people living together...
This whole "Sanctity of Marriage" is the presumption that marriage of any legal notion must also be a religious ceremony. People have the right to get married without whatever church's permission. it's not as if anyone told any church that THEY THEMSELVES had to accept homosexuality into their religion, but they don't have any place inside our government. If they don't want the government in their business, then they can nose their way out of the government.
It's a frustrating matter in regards to homosexuality and marriage. If we are going to talk about the loud Christian right in the US, the logic behind that is already tangled. Mind you it's not Christianity what I have a problem with being that Christ himself had no problems against homosexuality. Whatever is sighted in Leviticus was already pretty much dissavowed by Christ when he said... "yeah... no more of this angry God stuff.. he's nice now." Yet they keep referencing Leviticus when they want to be right or fear something new.
Another frustrating subject are these little "facts" they come up with. Lewis Black said it best that each side comes up with a set of "facts" all of which contradict each other. So their argument against homosexuality is usually routed somewhere in perversion and pedophilia. Even going so far as to say it's a mental disorder. Which, going by that logic, being straight is just as much of a mental disorder.
The fact of the matter is that this country is founded on a principle of a separation of Church and State. Meaning you can beleive in whatever crazy religion you want to so long as you don't infringe on the rights of others. Allowing gay marriage into our society doesn't infringe on families. Men aren't FORCED to marry other men. And whatever sanctity their was prior to this ( like marrying for land, or royalty marrying other royalty as close as first cousins to keep the bloodline "pure") All I see when gay marriage is voted against is that you are forcing people who love each other to NOT marry. Something that they should be entitled too.
Marriage doesn't have to be this big romantic, storybook kind of thing. And it doesn't have to be founded on some perfect ideal of love... but no one should tell me that I don't have the right to marry someone just because they have the same plumbing as I do.
Get married. :3
All marriage is in my perspective is a signature on a piece of paper, so I don't see the big deal when homosexuals want to get married.
Procreation is the only thing useful to a species. Sorry.
And most anti-gay marriage people don't find gays just useless. They severely despise them. Because it's in their nature. Why any gay couple wants to be apart of that kind of atmosphere is beyond me.
if that's their purpose in life, then said person are a lost cause, because not everyone likes to make children/be around children, or sex for that matter
I said 'species' an 'useful.' I said nothing about 'purpose' and 'life.' If you want to debate philosophy with me, then just admit that this argument at hand is beyond your debate, otherwise, just let it be.
All in all, if my next door neighbor wants kids, go for it and have fun, just don't come to my doorstep saying "your a shitty life form because you don't want to procreate like everyone else", follow this and life will be easier. That is all
Let's say, tomorrow, everyone adopted your attitude. Nobody 'wants' kids. All children under the age of 9 are gotten rid of. 25 years from now, the youngest of us would be 35. They would slowly be weened from being able to do manual labor. 35 years from now, and the smallest would be approaching 50. No new blood to keep the planet alive and the world is turned into a mortuary, full of dead, decaying crops, livestock and past generations strewn about because no one's around to pick them up. 45 years from now, and not a person on the planet would be without senility. In 50 years, I propose that with no one left to tend to any sort of crops, the last man and woman huddled together for warmth.
Let's say, tomorrow, everyone with your attitude vanishes. Suddenly, a good portion of the planet is empty, and population is nice and steady and we continue on for another... however the fuck long it takes?
Nobody 'comes' to your doorstep and tells you you're worthless. This is a case of you coming to THEIR doorstep and begging to join them and them denying you for whatever reason.
(nb4 you correct me and tell me you're not a homosexual, looking to get married, because you can't appreciate that it was a symbolic analogy)
I beg to differ, i don't go out of my way to pressure people into doing things because I don't have the energy or the patience too (plus its not my business). Oh no, its the other way around, they come to my house literally in front of my family, telling me I'm worthless because i happen to be gay and not straight (also insert religion stuff) . And when they start to threaten my mother and sister because they support me as a person, that's where I draw the line.
You can live your life the way you want, but my life is doing very well right now without the help of kids in life. Thank you
I offered an insight free of the burden of you, or me, or any religion or lifestyle on this earth. Rooted in the very survival of ALL things, not just our things.
But you continue to mettle it with personal matters.
Tch~
And before anyone brings up things like seeing a lawyer: First, needing to go to great expense and trouble to get what straight couples can for $50 and an hour at the town hall is blatantly discriminatory. Second, it often doesn't work anyway, as hospitals often ignore them and courts can void them.
I ignore them and I keep on with my inferior ways, as it suits me. I don't go looking to join their social clubs or hang out with their groups. I stick to my own.
Seperation of church and state.
Humans are weird like that--we're naturally inclined to cling to the things we know and love, yet we're equally inclined to keep looking for more, even if it's at the expense of what we already have.
That poor goat. D:
now 'protecting the sanctity of marriage' is a term that should not be used so loosely. Since clearly there is no protection going on. But the United states was founded on Christian views, which (being a fellow gay not withstanding) teaches in multiple places where being gay has been frowned upon through out the years. though, most of the examples given show either the being gay being the least of offenses in the list a location acts upon, or for hygiene reasons that (back in that time) could cause major illness and death. So, in the time of the books creation, these where legitimate problems. The problem with the U.S. law forbidding a homosexual binding is that they are assuming all American citizens are, indeed, Christian. And I think it's fairly obvious that is a false claim. But one cannot expect the government to listen to us, as citizens. The only way for large change to happen is if those of us whom see the truth in this to band together. build our numbers, and gain followers to a cause, and march on the White house. Yes, the majority will be arrested, more likely than not, but being gay is not against the law, and neither is it against the law to prove our point, such is shown by the our right of speech.
But that ramble aside, looking at the real glaring flaw here. they claim they are 'protecting' marriage, yet they do not stop divorces. They assume that everyone believes in a god that does not allow gay marriages, but is ok with two of opposing genders getting wed and then separated in the same year. There is no truth, nor protection in this. I say that any whom love, and are loyal, should be permitted marriage, regardless of genders.
check your facts there. Google the Treaty of Tripoli.
I still appreciate the points you're trying to make, regardless.
So, as a Founding Father, as some like to paint him, and as one of the people who penned your Constitution, your country isn't based upon Christian principles. Religious, yes, Christian, no. All that religious nitwittery the right likes to use about how this is a "Christian nation" as a way to prevent gays from having the same rights as everyone else is total hogwash.
Considering that the "founding fathers" were living in the 1700's, where homosexuality was barely noted as anything other than a social aberration to be ignored (the kindest tactic) or imprisoned (the most common response), let alone accepted, it's not surprising they'd never make a rule to cover the possibility of gay marriage- it's likely that they never even considered it as a possibility and so never discussed it. "Gays" as a group were almost unheard of before the 20th Century- they weren't so organized.
There was no "judgment" to doubt- in other words, they never considered it, they never discussed it- it never entered their minds that homosexuals were equals who might wish to share in the same rights as everyone else. The concept was completely alien to their probably world-view. Bringing the founding fathers up at all is not only pointless, it is irrelevant.
OK, enough with my nerdiness. I hope I haven't offended you at all.
But as you pointed out, there is good reason that the FFs didn't make a point of addressing gay marriage in the Constitution. :)
And to all the people talking about separation of church and state? Shut up. If marriage was a pure religious thing and not a legal thing, you'd have no legal rights when your husband or wife dies. You'd be in the same boat as homosexual couples unable to see their partners when in ICU and losing everything you owned with your partner when they die because there's no legal reason for the state to give you possession of your partner's things. It's the LEGAL part that gives you those rights, so there's no "separation" there. The religious part is OPTIONAL, as plenty of atheists/non-religious people get married every day.
It's my considered opinion, after having been a religious follower for decades (I am now an atheist), that, while so much good has come of the various faiths of this world, all religion may have been founded by mentally-ill schizophrenics with delusions in full flower who talked a good game and managed to convert people to their irrational cause.
I find that I get the same exact, slightly creeped-out, "something isn't right, here" feeling that I feel around "True Believers" as I do around actively delusional insanity... Not to slag on the mentally-ill- I have a mental illness myself, though a relatively minor one that doesn't render me too irrational to function (just makes me danged moody).
I feel equally creeped-out around the ultra-religious... but that's because I really do believe the ultra-religious are suffering from a mental disorder... more specifically the kind that makes it so you can't make ANY DECISION EVER without doing some random religious thing (prayer, usually). Often reminds me of cults.
Such as Scientology. That's some crazy shit if you read up on it.
Yeah, the creeped-out feeling I get is around the ultra-religious. I suspect the decision-making problem you noticed is a compulsive thing- these people may well be OCD at some level.
I call myself an atheist, as I don't believe in a god, but I do have a spiritual aspect to my personality that sometimes feels like there is a kind of... connectedness to life that goes beyond coincidence and simple interaction. There have been moments of seemingly total understanding between me and an animal I know, or a human- my mate and I seem to share thoughts, on occasion, or I'd be thinking of asking him to do something for me, and he then goes and does it. I don't know what that is, but I don't think I can properly call it telepathy, not in the usual sense of the word.
Anyway, I still don't believe in a god, or even an intelligent Creator, but if there was any kind of a Creator, I suspect it is not self-aware and it won't have anything like a personal "relationship" with it's creation like people seem to expect from religion. I'm still open to the idea of a creative force of some kind (or experiencing it in such a way as to remove all doubt in it's existence), though I'm unlikely to worship it.
"Think it'll work?"
"It would take a miracle."
...Wait, that's not helping our case here. XD
I don't want a christian-forged sheet of paper telling me who i love.
Seriously, we are fighting over sentimental, here. He get all the other benefits of straight people.
My apologies.
Behave or you don't get a whipping.
I've pointed out several clear problems that you (as an organization) have been puzzling over seemingly for years, and have several different ways to fix them.
Also, I predicted that you would use exactly this excuse for ignoring all of this.
i'm not even sure it's a ticket
lmfao get out of here with your bs
is dats pickle
I have no interest in telling him what to do, but let's look at this from my perspective.
I have a full-time job. In my spare time, I have produced several detailed postings on a couple of forums about what exactly is wrong with the site as it stands right now, and put honest thought into several different ways to fix all of the problems I have listed.
Dragoneer, on the other hand, has produced one (somewhat flawed) piece of artwork over the past 2 days (already behind schedule on those IRON ARTIST commissions), and seems to have used the rest of it to studiously ignore all of our hard work on reverse-engineering and re-engineering his broken system.
Also, there is a gigantic staff list of people who are supposed to be handling bans and solving trouble tickets. As far as I can tell, those people aren't doing their job very well either.
I've gotten pretty fed up with hearing the same excuse every time he ignores these things (again, i predicted, two days ago, what excuse he would use this time), and I'm also pretty sick of people who buy into the same excuse over and over again. It's come down to this: he is ignoring major problems with the site. All we're doing is pointing them out.
excuse me for butting in, but this is a journal about how retarded marriage/religious whatnot is these days, not about fixing a fucking site/admin troubles. Stay on topic please
Our contention is that he is ignoring major production issues. In response, instead of considering any of this, he posts a journal about something entirely unrelated.
Again. In my personal time, I have done more work for the site than it has probably seen in years. Dragoneer, in his personal time, has done what? He's posted... this pointless topic, and some picture with fundamentally broken anatomy. And people are going to congratulate him for that?
I personalty don't care what the admins do about this site, but if you want to talk about things unrelated to this topic about marriage, do it in the personal messages in private and not here for everyone to see you. Thats about it
Either that, or he can get sick of seeing me show up, delete this journal in a hissyfit, and ban me. But if he did that, I think it would just prove my point 100% perfectly.
Also, myself and others have brought up these issues in private. Repeatedly. Over the course of many years. They don't get fixed until something major breaks. Go on, ask me how I know.
I have issues with what he is not doing, because what he is not doing is dangerous for the people using this site. I care about this site. You... don't seem to. You only seem to be interested in kissing admin ass.
He will never make a topic where my criticism would be considered (by you) to be relevant, so I have to do this to get other people to pay attention to what is going on.
I am not angry at an admin. I am angry at the systemic lack of action about major security issues. The constant dodges. The excuses that have become so predictable that I am able to guess at exactly which one is going to be used. Constant downtime, constantly degraded performance, constant failure, an ever-present attitude of mediocrity, always excused with constant promises of "we're working on it!". The repeated lies. That bothers me.
If you think my critical stance against this kind of behavior makes me look like an ass, then I have to ask: what does misspelling your username make you look like. (And don't give me the "i did this on purpose" lie)
Seriously, if you care so much about the site's current state so much, then go and do something about it yourself, instead of yelling at the admins over nothing. (that's probably why hes not responding to you)
Pull the other one!
agreed, also, this is a journal about the craziness of marriage, not about site updates or fixing whatnot. If dragoneer wants to talk about the stupidity of society/religion, he can.
I function pretty well as a human being in society, thank you very much. what's your excuse
What war? All I want is to see the site fixed. This is my absolute last resort: expose all the grimy inner workings across every single level, and let the chips fall where they may.
My friends and I know how to fix this site. We are prevented from working on this site because of stupid tricks like this, where we bring up major issues, and the people in charge say "we don't care" and the users of the site say "you shouldn't care".
For more detail, please see: http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....oid-and-iPhone and https://forums.vivisector.org/index.....pic,455.0.html
I can forgive you for not being familiar with the history of the site. I cannot forgive you for willingly maintaining ignorance.
Your talking to someone who knows nothing about how dragoneer's journals goes or what this FA forums you speak about. In the meantime, if he posts it today, horray, if not, no biggie. Demanding it won't get it here sooner.
Because I was commenting to
So asking why they are either posting their stuff here/suggesting sending a PM to Dragoneer is attacking?
And I'll be glad to change my behavior when you are paying me to solve your problems. Until then, deal with it. Dragoneer isn't behaving any better here.
Enjoy your pizza. Meanwhile I shall work on fixing things some more.
Not a furry, try again (oh shit, not everyone on FA is a furry). that and my popcorn is done, yummy, but the show is over
You have a furry character
You have a furry boyfriend
You draw furries
You're a furry, bro.
2)their called anthro characters (or shit, even non-furries have anthro characters aka funny animals)
3)My boyfriend is not a furry, and doesn't really care too much about this fandom besides the characters, thank you
4)So does Butch Hartman, Sega, and Disney, and they aren't furries (oh shit again)
try again, next in line
Son, I am disappoint.
CANT BREATHE
Furthermore, performance is dragging ass. It's starting to take seconds to load pages. *I* have some idea of what's wrong, and I explained it on the forums. I might even be able to fix it, but every time that comes up, it boils down to "sean piche does not like you because you are mean to him". That is no excuse. Plus, I am only mean to him because he does things like this, things which damage the community, and I have no other way of trying to get heard so the site can get fixed.
Ignoring the problem for upwards of six years doesn't get them fixed any faster either. These problems have been ignored for years. I think I have a right to vent just a little bit when people come in and say they have no clue but they'll offer their opinion anyway.
its also the higher ups that say one thing that lower downs copycat trying to be just like daddy or in likeness of LOL who cannot see that the truth isnt something said but found. and again LOLZ
There is nothing civil about a discussion that involves God in any meaning of the word. As soon as you bring up spirituality, religion or a deity, you're making up excuses and you genuinely have nothing to add to the debate. Just go on and say how you really feel: you're keeping people from being happy solely because you're uncomfortable with the idea. You feel merited to have a just opinion on this matter because you have a bigoted and homophobic outlook on life.
*HUGS you really, really cozily, lovingly and happily*
Biological: You were born this way and you can't change a thing. It's hard-coded into your genes, and are genuinely revolted at the thought of having sex with the opposite sex, and no boners can be had.
Social: You've grown to accept that sex is comforting and/or fun, regardless of who it's with. Bisexualism generally falls into this category.
Environmental: It's how you were raised, where you were raised. Maybe something bad happened to you as a child and it affected you psychology, maybe you grew attached to feminine objects and you continued to do so for a good time. Either way, something/someone in your growth development phase has resulted in you growing attracted to the same sex, sometimes moreso than the opposite sex.
Scientists know that homosexuality is at the very least biological as it occurs in other animals aside from humans.
My grind is this: your "excuses" are just as valid as theirs. It's all in your mind. Nature, nurture. Potato potato. You grew up gay, they grew up religious. Being one doesn't invalidate the argument any more than not being the other.
Yes, it's Wikipedia, but it does link to legit studies. Regardless, if you're going to throw the "homosexuality is a cult/religion" at me, then I'm going to throw "freedom of religion" at you.
Here is a list I found of some of the 1,400 rights conferred to married couples:
Joint parental rights of children
Joint adoption
Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
Crime victims recovery benefits
Domestic violence protection orders
Judicial protections and immunity
Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
Public safety officers death benefits
Spousal veterans benefits
Social Security
Medicare
Joint filing of tax returns
Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
Child support
Joint Insurance Plans
Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
Estate and gift tax benefits
Welfare and public assistance
Joint housing for elderly
Credit protection
Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
Note that I said "What I know". My claims are not definitive, but such things are able to be, and are, being studied with empirical tests - and getting results, unlike the bible/spaghetti monster/space teacup you are touting. People ARE gay, and the Defense of Marriage Act is causing actual harm to same-sex couples. In the eyes of the law, same sex partners are considered lesser entities than married couples, simply because it's two men or two women.
All I'm saying is "BLEH, RELIGION IS FULL OF DUMB DUMB STUPID HEADS" is no different then them saying all gays are blasphemous and should burn in hell.
... but hell, you're probably one of those "If the tables were turned..." bastards who would neuter other people's rights if given half the chance.
I don't know WHAT you're going on about. If you consider being gay a cult/religion, then I guess that means being straight is a religion as well.
Sounds like you want things to be as equal as a chiropractor's pen is straight. In other words, not at all. You believe that you have the right to dismiss anything you want, because it doesn't fit your little narrow path.
I'm done arguing now.
You were done arguing 4 posts ago.
All I'm trying to say is that the Defense of Marriage Act is discrimination. Whether you think it discriminates against one religion versus another, fine, it's still selective and gives one group of people more rights than another, on the basis that God Says So. To me, and anyone who can use their damn brain, that should not be enough of a reason to exclude a group of people on a federal level.
If any given church doesn't want to allow gay people to get married, then fine, that's their own volition.. but the government shouldn't be allowed to legally back them up.
But you believe in science.
They believe in religion.
You aren't trying to prove who's right or who's wrong, you're just trying to disprove their belief with your own.
They're trying to disprove your belief with their own.
You're no different. No less thick headed. No less unforgiving. No more deserving to be without any power over the other.
The fact that you haven't caught wind of that yet makes me glad that you are voluntarily removing yourself from the gene pool. Or your genes did it for you. Or the environment. Or God.
Bye.
This whole thing is dumb, and unconstitutional. Isnt there something about having the right to pursue happiness? Apparently not if you are attracted to the same sex.
"A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)"
We can quote the bible too.
The contradictorily in this whole gay marriage argument baffle me... The religious protesters can't even follow what the bible actually says, yet it's their big reason for not wanting gays to marry eachother.
Worth reading:
http://www.kobrascorner.com/opine/prop-8.php
http://www.kobrascorner.com/p/traditional.php
TL;DR version: Tradition is a stupid reason to stop gay marriage, and traditional values is a dumb phrase.
Also, you're preaching to the choir. :)
It also serves as a distraction, so he can avoid thinking about it for that much longer.
How well that's going is debatable.
It's obvious that they have other matters to take care of. If they haven't or don't want to hear your views on how to improve the site then drop it. Go to a site that might actually take your suggestions like IB for instance.
"Don't hold your breath"
I have my own issues with IB, but those ones are not "raging apathy on the part of both the admins and the users" so this approach would not be useful in clarifying those issues.
Thanks for your suggestion, though.
Black's had to fight for their rights, but in the end, they won. (So have most races)
Woman had to fight for their rights, and we won.
The LGBT community is now fighting for it's rights, and if history taught us anything, they may just win too.
The hypocrisies in all these arguments being mad are ridiculous. I don't understand how they can be protecting the sanctity of marriage when it comes to gays, but not everything else.
Isn't it against the bible to have sex before marriage? And what about having a child out of wed-lock.? Or the fact that woman aren't just baby machines for their husbands anymore and have the right to do whatever they want?
I saw an article online somewhere about this very subject. One of the quotes was about how Brittany Spears' marriage (Which lasted a matter of hours) was somehow more holy and worthwhile than a gay couple who love each other and have been together for years. (The thing I'm talking about was supporting gay marriage for those who don't know what I'm talking about.)
nice one
Divorce wasn't allowed until I think it was King Henry the XIII made the clergy realize he was killing all of his wives so he can have another one to replace them
Hell, marriage between races was also unheard of decades ago until people started realizing blacks were human beings too.
I kind of see it as an inevitability gay marriage'll be a reality, we just need more young people in support for it to outnumber the stubborn old-timers.
God help me if they say "well, we might as well allow people to marry their pets" as their counter-argument, then that's freaking dehumanizing the people you're arguing against.
Talking to him further only revealed that a major part of his concern had to do with how gay couples would get some of the same legal capacities and rights straight ones would if it was made legal.
At the same time, I live in a place where someone who wants to be a preacher and teach others how to live a "righteous" life just got married himself. He did it fairly quickly, then left the house.... only to return within a week to say he didn't think his new wife's parents "followed the right path" aka "let me lay around and not work like I did here". He has since been trying to direct his discomfort at having done what he did at "God trying to tell him something" and is talking about divorce. *shrugs*
I think there are few people in this world anymore who really know what the sanctity of marriage is, and even less who experience it themselves.
either move, or just travel for the ceremonies.
preventing something like that is how did the borg say it...
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!
To put your statement in laymans terms: to the straight people out there that try to "protect the sanctity of marriage": don't go bitching about gay marriage unless you start bitching about your own.
Is that acceptable or no? o3o
cant see why others refuse to see the truth in this because all it gets them is a good broken nose arm lost kid or even death for claiming they know better.
I thought that only happened in TV!
Hell, right now, if your gay lover ends up in the hospital, you can't visit them. Only "family" can. Marriage would allow that, but current conditions you'd be forced out.
Problem is, you mention "Gays wants civil unions!" and people just sorta of go "Huh?". Marriage is the only term most understand.
but still theres got to be some compromise or deal we can work out to give Americans rights yet leave Religious people with our own thing that doesnt feel threatened.
Gay says he wants a civil union, everyone looks around the room, shrugs their shoulders. 'Sounds pretty fancy. Go ahead.'
Gay says he wants a marriage, people with a bible strapped to each ear jump up ontop the table screaming obscenities.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fe.....ights_for.html
And by recent, I mean just this last Tuesday.
I'm exaggerating if you think I meant to say that one road was wrought with worry and danger and the other was sugar, candy canes and lolipops.
....that's all I got this time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpsT3e8UsM
that way we can give rights to fellow Americans, and who knows maybe what we call marriage really is dying, dont join it! replace it and laugh as the people like me keep trying to have Sanctity in our marriages.
no more political parties!
no more gays vs straight
no more Religious vs. Nonreligious
I want to work together :/
Thus even though millions of gays want to be married you're stepping into a religion's threshold and they don't want it. It goes against their faith and belief's.
So what I'm wanting to know is why gays can't be happy with domesticate partnerships? Why must they step on the toes of the religious? :I
OH. By the way before anyone wants to hate on me, these are my opinions and happily pansexual. BUT I do respect the wishes of those who are religious and what they hold as their rights to keep marriage [only] between a man and woman.
you don't get the benefits of a straight couple if your gay or lesbian, even pansexual, since your considered abnormal to society. Also, religion does not have a foot hold in marriage, since alot of non religious people get married. Good look finding someone without being chastised for being not normal
Every religion has their own version of marriage [most commonly used is the Christan version] so to me, when someone wants to bitch and whine about no-one accepting that they are gay and want marriage it just annoys the living shit outta me.
I mean yeah gays are now out there and in the society but sometimes its flat out annoying how many fucking rights gays want. Its like they are trying to be a whole new breed or race of people. Christ its just an orientation D;
bro I don't even want to go anywhere with this, but the thing is to me.
It seems like gays wants the world. Its endlessly annoying.
You see a gay guy and he MUST pronounce he is gay. How annoying would it be if some straight dude or gal was like: SO I'M STRAIGHT :D it would be juuuust as annoying.
Either way, I'm tired of annoying and over-baring gay people. And marriage is one of the most annoying topics gay people bring up. All you hear is bitching and whining
In the end, we are people, regardless of who we love or want to be with. When you strip away the freedom of a group for who they are, you get backlash. it happened with colored people, then with women, now with minorities like gays and lesbians
All I was trying to say was that the main reason gays don't have much luck is because being gay is a orientation not a damn life altering issue. But yet gay people push that shit into the damn open all the time. They make a huge stink about being gay and want everyone and their mother's to know it. Gays put themselves into boxes. Yes, being gay is a taboo, but its because its so different than what has been designated from the norm. But god damn, if you would just shut up for once, stop screaming how you are gay maybe people wouldn't attack you so much. But no, thats not a very good idea is it? You must scream that you are gay and then shove it into everyone else's face while you're at it right?
Ugh. Whatever.
Obviously you and everyone else will just keep prattling on and on about how you should have all these rights [when you already do so just shut up and be happy with what you have now] so I'm ending this cluster fuck nightmare of a discussion. :/
Have fun bitching about not having a perfect life because you ask for trouble
you seriously believe this
maybe you should tell black people to stop listening to rap music because it's stereotypical, and for muslims to stop wearing their traditional clothes because it's and abnormal in our western culture and it makes them look like such a terrorist. if straight people don't have to hide their sexuality then neither should gays, nor anyone else have to hide a simple belief that is not illegal. after all, it's not illegal to be gay, not yet anyway, but people like you make it seem like a crime even when you say you're supportive of it.
But, I would like to comment on two things. First, marriage has been around for a long time before Christianity came around.
Second, you talk about supporters of gay marriage stepping on others religious beliefs, but there are a lot of supporters of gay marriage who do, in fact, believe religiously in the right for gays and lesbians to marry.
For the government to either support or oppose gay marriage is a violation of freedom of religion. If the government were to submit to the idea that marriage is a religious institution, then they should leave it to the churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, etc. and only regulate civil unions. But, personally, I don't think marriage is a religious institution.
Thus even though millions of gays want to be married you're stepping into a religion's threshold and they don't want it. It goes against their faith and belief's.
Sorry, I gotta call bull-pucky on this one. Marriage as a concept and as a social contract between two families (or more- multiple wives in some cultures, multiple husbands in others) has been around FAR longer than a new-kid-on-the-block like Christianity. That religion has power currently, sure, but it hasn't been around for more than two thousand years. Humanity is more than thirty times older than that, and marriage as an agreement- whether financial, forging alliances between tribes or even for love- between two or more people has been around almost as long.
Marriage in this society is also NOT a religious thing- the ceremony a couple goes through at the church is fine and fancy, but it isn't at all legal until they both sign the CIVIL contract that government will recognize.
Don't assume that Christianity is the only religion. There are plenty others whose rights need to be respected. That includes those who are not religious. If the Christians consider marriage to be only between a man and a woman, then I'm perfectly fine with that. Just don't force that belief on those of us who don't subscribe to that religion. That's why we have freedom of religion in the first place; so we don't have to comply with any religious doctrine other than our own.
Also, Marriage became a strictly legal matter the instant the government started awarding tax breaks to married couples. Married couples have to pay less and can file jointly for taxes. That's a benefit that "civil unions" are not awarded.
There is no sanctity of marriage, not since you can get married in vegas in five minutes and annulled within days *cough*Britney spears*cough*
As for it beng about "raising children" being it's purpose, if that was true, only fertile people and people with kids would be allowed to get married.
Funny thing is the church didn't used to care one whit and same sex union has a long and world wide hisotry, it's only in the last hundred years that they got pissy about it.
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fave this journal
you put it perfectly and i didnt have to TL;DR
so much awesome stated in so few words
perfect ;u;
What's worse is that you can't even argue it without having a bible shoved in your face. I don't mean to sound rude, but there really is no place for spirituality in law.
The ones that horrify me are the ones who think that it shall be their rock and their savior; that because they now have this knowledge, anything is going to be any different.
Uggg~