lol I agree. Ironically, when I put out music or written works, nobody pays mind

Influence by surrounding,s I reckon. But definitely hear you and agree

lol first comment

oh u

GIVE ME MY MOTHERFUCKING PRIZE BITCH

Here's your PRIZE BATCH!

*cockslaps*

Love you Fen. You never call me anymore ; _ ;

I thought you were in Alaska fucking polar bears or something :P

You need to try and talk to Jonny, he went through some tough shit, the last few weeks

lol That's bullshit, because if everybody made that simple click of a button like they do for a piece of visual art, then there'd be more to argue with than "Oh, we have lives"

Stories do admittedly take time to read, so I can undestand that grudgingly. I admittedly skip stories, just because it's usually assumed to be erotica that follows the standard boy-on-boy action. Not usually into sitting through the same shit in written format, so I skip it. My bad

Music, I learned that using the middle button on my mouse opens it up in another tab. I hit play while I browse with the initial tab, and if it's good music, I fav, if it's okay, I close, if it's bad, I set fire to things

In the end, Strype's just saying be creative, put more out there, if you feel like it

lol Not saying that ya should be phony about it; just to give more things a try. Try the music/tab thing a little more often, you can always close it out, if you don't dig

If you want music, another great artist is  malcolmthebear.

Funny that you should mention that you skip over stories because you assume that they're going to be the same m/m, pretty-boy porn, because that's usually the -only- thing that ever gets read.

The most pageviews I've ever had on a single story is the one with the most sex/fetish labels on it.

I won't dare say it takes more effort to write than it does to draw, but it does take a lot more effort to read (har har, effort to look at a screen...) than it does to skip over a picture and comment about your sexual fantasies with (character). Composing (well) is one skill asset that takes an incredible amount of talent and is vastly overlooked (moreso if it isn't techno/a remix).

I can't say this without sounding very cliched, but the "finer arts" will always be lost in a sea of porn and sexual innuendo and that's a bit of a downer when it comes to trying to perfect your own art.

lol It's true, and I do stand corrected. Granted, I have run across some great stories on here. I've read quite a few, and I guess I'm sort of guilty for putting off many because of a bad case of the few that I've stumbled across that were like Naruto Foxboi meets Debbie Does Dallas

Oh my God, I'm not going to blame you for that one. Despite being a writer myself, I've skipped over a zillion of the stories in my submission box because of the absurd quality that seems so rampant.

Plus, people keep complimenting my writing style, so I guess it's okay for me to have a big head about what's good and what's not.

Not to jump in or drag it off topic slightly, but have you checked out http://www.nanowrimo.org/ ? It might help even if you don't make the word goal for it, and there's a lot of ideas and inspiration given.

I don't have much time to write, or the muse is too finicky to let me write or gives the inspiration at the absolutely wrong times...

Hope this sparks some inspiration...

Nano is fucking hard. If you actually do it, you will surprise the hell out of yourself.

Even though the first (and only time so far) that I won it, I wrote a big heaping pile of shit, I actually cried when my main character died at the end. Then I resurrected him and that made it even more shit, but hey, I wrote 50,000 words of it! ;)

I didn't even get to 50k, but I had a lot of work done as much as I could.

Though you writing 50k is totally sweet and you definitely need major props for getting that far ^_^

Midi music makes my ears bleed and furry stories make my eyes bleed (porn and clean).

I do favorite and comment on clean art though.

lol Not all of the stuff on here's midi. I don't do midi,  foxamoore,  smoh2go and  renard_v sure as hell don't.

Stories I rarely read, admittedly, but I've seen several series on here that, both erotic and non, were very thought-provoking and well-written.  tredain, Liconjaegungriff: amd  trendane come instantly to mind

But hey, great that you like your clean art, big guy.

 jaegungriff. I fail at code~

Everything I checked after joining FA was MIDI, so I haven't checked any music in a long time. I'll go back and check your and the other guys stuff out.

lol It's cool, man. I also avoid music a bit, because of the same deal. There are great artists of all kinds in the Fandom, it's just a matter of testing the waters, every so often

*nods* There's a lot of techno...but I can't say I really run into much MIDI anymore. Maybe it's just that the people I find on here are usually through other artist's favorites and such. The music doesn't get as much attention on here. Probably because it's hard to keep it fur-oriented.

the thing is - I am guilty of NRTFUP (not reading the fucking user pages) - is this music made by furries, or furry music?

The art is usually furry art, except when it's not, or when it's photos of your ferret or a tree in your yard. But music.. you know, I have no interest in listening to 'furry' music for the most part, aside from 'transformation'-themed stuff and even then that might be a stretch, as I'm kind of transhumanist.

lol Well, it's more like, Furries are people like you and I. We do shit, and like to showcase it, usually.

Visually, it's like, you can draw an anthro. And text, you can describe one. But music...  foxamoore's probably one of the few that tries to convey bestial spirit through music, but it's still in orchestral format... So, I guess, like visual art, aural art is meant to express a part of you, showcase what you like, ya know?

I mean, even if I really was an Anthro wolf, I sure as hell wouldn't pick some fruit banging erratically on drums and yelling jabber over some Tori Amos or Benassi, just because Native A stuff is linked to animal spirits and whatnot. Hell, if anything, that's like saying all black people like gangsta rap. And, honestly, seeing as how almost 80% of the fandom's Caucasian, it's probably best to drop the whole feather-in-the-braid-in-the-fur wolf thing, for the sake of respect and originality; it's like saying you're a Dru'd because you freaking play World of Warcraft, taking a handy shortcut around a verbal tradition partially documented in old books written by the uninitiated

Music's music and visual's visual, ya know? We're Furries, but we're more than just a shell, more than just a stereotype

Out of curiosity, what do you define as MIDI music? What some would call "chiptunes", "Commodore 64 emulation", or "NES emulation", or other things? I'm curious because, well, curious about what people define as "MIDI music"... Going to assume it's more electronic in nature...

((Because MIDI is only a protocol for transfer of information between various types of hardware for producing sound))

Some people consider the use of free/cheap MIDI sequencing programs and soundfonts from, like, the late 90's to about five years ago the MIDI sound. Some people do well with it ( dmf, for example), but some abuse it and its' pretty limited sound. It's sort of a slang for some that misuse advanced programs like FL Studio and Reason to the point where it sounds like it's from a MIDI sequencer from the 90's; i.e; really bad technoes

Me, I meant MIDI sequencing the same way (the sound), as well as the way that some people actually use premade sequences to "create" music, in a form of tracing. I do remixes by ear, as well as original stuff; not a fan of reusing premade sequences

Ah, okay, was quite curious about such... I personally prefer programs like Reaktor, but I'm gearing more towards a hardware setup (Reaktor just seems to be the most flexible one out there that I've found, and fits well for travelling - plus is well known in the DnB and EDM/IDM (Industrial) scenes).

Makes sense now, I tend to get confused when people use that term as I'm not all that familiar with the slang usage of the word.

Still wish hardware was as "cheap" as software for initial entry cost though, $400 for Reason or Reaktor versus ten times that to get the same level of flexibility in a hardware setup (okay, so such isn't exactly truthful, but the path I want "requires" a Virus, and they aren't cheap (Virus TI Desktop is $2,500 or so, but hopefully it's only $2k CAD now), as well as a few other things (Akai MPC-2500 comes to mind), and then might as well add in the MOTU 24IO or other high end audio cards as I'm going for ProTools certification one of these days (whenever I can afford the $14.5k CAD to go into a DAW accelerated programming course, only place I've found so far is blue Pixel FX ( http://mydeveducation.com/ ) that has an actually decent program (locally, i could go to Vancouver, but that's 3 years and $90k CAD to go through plus selling my condo)... wow, went totally off topic).

Out of sheer curiosity, what's your opinion of programs such as RubberDuck from ages and aeons ago? (early to mid 90s... i think, can't remember, had a friend give me a copy of it before I knew anything about how synths work).

I definately have to agree that most of the lower end synth programs seem to be fairly limited, and even Reason seems to be unless you know how to use the more higher end features it offers (although i will admit, one time I managed to make a synth sound like a wailing cat as well as do Samhain (Halloween) undertone music with it o_O, I think i was using about four or five plug-ins along with the analog synth).

Btw, thanks for the link to another artist, been looking for music guys, they seem to be hard to find these days

lol Honestly, I'm still learning, myself. As far as programs go, all I know extensivelyabout are FL and Reason. I dicked around with a MIDI sequencer a few years back, but it put me off bad with it's limits and I got a hold of FLS5 from a friend shortly after

But, as far as extensive MIDI sequencing knowledge, I recommend  dmf. He's pretty hardcore and hasn't used anything beyond simple MIDI sequencers for his works. You should talk to him about that, he'll definitely help you out. There's also  noboyuki, who does pro MIDI sequencing for games (I think)

Program-wise; I'd go with  renard_V,  annodam,  ghar,  dmashura and  djtemper. Analog and real media, go with  foxamoore,  tekfox and  benanderson. Renard does Breaks using digital, and TekFox DJ's Breaks live and pretty exclusively

Hope all of this helps. Sorry for the late reply, had to jet to work

 nobuyuki?  nubuyuki?  weeaboo? Somethin lol

Truth be told, I've only really done a little bit of messing around with those two programs - seems my paws are a little more apt at coming up with something creative if there's actual control surfaces to play with (probably why I've had better luck with NORD's or KORG's products as I've had a little more time to fiddle around with them (gotta love friends who own desktop/rackmount versions of synths ^_^). I really need to find those old cds and give reason another spin, got back into games and completely forgot about audio >.> As well, by the sounds of it, your skills are a fair bit more developed than mine are

No worries about "late" replies, we all have real lives to live ^_^ And damn, I knew Tek was into Breaks, but didn't realize he was into production o_O ^_^

A few others I like are  djclusteryiff,  dragonboy,  ravingdragon (as well as some of the ones you've mentioned already :) )

Amen!

Music? *goes back and looks, obviously missed it*

Furry Musicians really need more attention. I mean it doesn't help that we're the only category you have to scroll down for, but sometimes you can find truly inspiring artists there.

I've actually been listening to your megaman remixes ^^
I like em :p

Agreed

I draw far too much porn nowadays

oh wait

YES YOU DO. You filth-mongerer D:<

Indeed, but it's oh so loveable porn ~_^


...for the ears. :)

Agreed, sooner or later people will drive out the porn to a bare minimum.

LOL Yeeeeah, okay

whaddya you know your nothing but a smut peddler anyways

try somethin' different

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/deeplydisturbd/

And you like smut. If it doesn't have muscle or a dick, it's passed over. Just stop with the bullshit's all I'm saying lol

Nothing wrong with erotica, but it'd be great to see a hell of a lot more. And I agree, I do need to get back into doing more than just porn, though about half of my gallery isn't

But will you guys care, if I actually did?

YEAH maybe
relax. lol.

I like lots of things with neither of those, thats why im an illustratoin student

lol That's fine, but don't sit up there and act coy. The shit's tacky as fuck and makes you look hypocritical

yeah its like a mirror

t depends on how much you care about that. do you draw for the others? or Despite the others? because that makes a hell lot of a difference.I grew tired on how this community handles lotsa things, that's why i took down my galeries and am currently drawing again for the pleasure of it in first instance.It was a breath of fresh air.But can i really blame anyone?Don't forget this fandom is what it is also thanks to big ass artists and not only "window lickers". I honestly see a lot of journals stating how deviate, ungrateful and disgraceful this community is, but no1 complains when he gets paid to draw what he /she declaredly despises so much.Nor when he/she gets hordes of fanboys/girls that would pay with a lung for a shit nodle drawn by their favourite artist.
Besides, look at the footer banner: what does it advertise?

J.

(and argh i think i double posted lol)

lol Exactly. Also note who's watching Strype, but is very tactfully and wisely not responding to this journal to cement their high status

argh please rephrase: i am not sure if i got the question right XD you know: not english here XD
What are you suggesting?

Do as the kings do, if you want to be king lol

oh you mean by not exposing oneself, saying what one thinks?

I see some of them doing it for that reason
But i also think some of them didn't simply join the discussion because, imo it's partly uncalled for:
look in my opinion it's a purely a matter of offer/request.
If i were one who likes to draw cock all the time because it's what i like, i'd keep doing it.
Same goes if i were an attention whore and by drawing what other people like to see i'd get said attention.
Same goes to high shot artists who earn hundreds of bucks with commissions.
There has been a moment where i was very disappointed with what i perceived of the fandom, and took down my stuff, then i realized it was me taking the whole thing in the wrong way.People are people and look at what they like and makes them feel good. So one has to do things firstly for himself before than according to watchers expectation.

This whole brawl is useless for this reason: just bring out a valid alternative and inspiration.That's all we can do: give alternatives and ideas.In the end the crowd that makes this community so varied and peculiar will pick it up or not.Will decide if it's valid or not.

And of course one can do it if that's what he wanna do.Because don't forget there's a bunch of people at peace with themselves doing what they do because they like it or not, kinky or normal, clean or dirty.

Besides this whole discussion is bringing up what communities like this come up with regulairly: drama.

LULz

And of course one can do it if that's what he wanna do.Because don't forget there's a bunch of people at peace with themselves doing what they do because they like it or not, kinky or normal, clean or dirty.

Bingo lol

fuck yeah!

what did i win!? 8D

Whatever I won for getting first comment

awesome ! I always secretly desired a free commission from Strype! 8D

no wait, that serious sci-fi
and now i'll end up un the infamous be-warned-or-be-burned spot!

XD

Oh noes!

oh sadness oh woe is me
./ wrists

forgot to add "in order not to get mad, pissed off,fed up with" after "So one has to do things firstly for himself before than according to watchers expectation."

XD

Assassinate the previous king, take his throne, and watch your back >:O

~N~

it depends on how much you care about that. do you draw for the others? or Despite the others? because that makes a hell lot of a difference.I grew tired on how this community handles lotsa things, that's why i took down my galeries and am currently drawing again for the pleasure of it in first instance.It was a breath of fresh air.But can i really blame anyone?Don't forget this fandom is what it is also thanks to big ass artists and not only "window lickers". I honestly see a lot of journals stating how deviate, ungrateful and disgraceful this community is, but no1 complains when he gets paid to draw what he /she declaredly despises so much.Nor when he/she gets hordes of fanboys/girls that would pay with a lung for a shit nodle drawn by their favourite artist.
Besides, look at the footer banner: what does it advertise?

J.

Hey, time might fix it or make it worse. But its getting worse :)

lol Hey, even Rome fell, right? I guess we're just riding on the coattails of Nero, so to speak

your kidding right?

Nope. Its all generations.

yeah i think most it can be moved otu but all of it i dout even strpye said its not bad. just to clean things up and be creative

You make many very valid points, and I happen to agree fully.

then again, I've been saying most of this since I got into the fandom and people just kept telling me to shut up....."anyone who denies that porn is a big part of the fandom is naieve" they told me.

I don't think stype is denying that porn is a big part of the fandom, i think he feels that we could do more to make the best of it. I mean thats why i many times felt like leaving the fandom because there was nothing but boybitches and chicks with dicks floating around the net when i feel there could be so much more. I wish i was an artist because my mind is filled with actual concepts i would love to draw out and not a one porn.

Porn is an unfortunate majority in the fandom and it gets sickening quickly.

Yeah, I know, and that's why I wish I was a prefer clean art. I have a lot of porn art too, no point in denying it, but let's be honest here, if I had a choice, it'd all be clean. the problem, as you stated, is that Porn is a big part of the fandom, and it seems 90% of the good artists prefer drawing porn, or are comissioned by the fandom to draw porn.

Indeed, I wonder if we can see a drawing of an anthro that isn't showing off his or her doodads 75% of the time when we check every day.

I think most people (not me) in the fandom would rather have porn than art

Sadly i cant draw for s#*t, But yeah it does seem to be all porn...

Probably one of the best judgement calls on this site, although I wouldn't just limit it to art... plenty of stories too. I try and do equal measure porn and non porn... 50/50 although I hardly post any non porn here :P

I agree fully..
So many people ignore what you do if it's not porn, and it really hacks me off.
I won't deny i can't draw to save my life, but i take photo's which are ignored or i get PM's which say that because it's not furry or porn, i should not be on the board.

Wow, that's terrible! Glad I haven't received that yet. How do you respond to such asininity?

Ignore it.
And carry on posting my photo's.. I haven't uploaded to my FA or DA accounts lately.

Back to topic

I've kinda resigned myself to the fact that the majority of the fandom doesn't give a shit about art and creativity, they just want something to jerk off to.

You know I always thought the same thing, and sometimes it bothers me that the only art that gets any attention here is porn... I'm not a fan of drawing it, but I will occassionally, but it bothers me that that is what a majority of people seem to want to see here... I love your art because you don't focus on that aspect and your characters look freaking awesome! Anyway I could write a whole yarn about this topic, but I think you'd get tired of reading it XD

Kudos to ya! =^_^=V

Hey, I do like much more jobs of an artist than porn. I don't care for fav and like a picture here (in my favs are more porn than another thing, but because I'm for "clean" in dA).

Just I know that you artist are much more than pornographers. Except when you want to be a pornographer artist, as Aaron xP

I keep saying something similar. :( Like you, ! see there to be more potential to our community and our work than "lol titties & cocks". Unfortunately, since I don't draw porn at all myself, when I try to say this it sounds like "OMG PORN IS EVIL STOP IT" to some people.

Good to know though there's more people who'd like to see some more creative variety in this fandom.

Do agree here man. alot of people write things adn do some art that not prn that dont get enough ation that they should.
But my question is how do you change a sub culture with out people saying that your effecting there creative commons?

btw "window-lickingly retarded" just great haha

a whole community's output can be affected by one person. Who knows, maybe we'll see some awesome shit come out because of this journal and the effect will spread like wildfire. Not entirely likely, but don'tcha think it's worth a shot?

I really do and i think that some change will come from this. Just look at the people who are agreeing with you. there s the best artist and most influential on here and there all agreeing with you. so personal i would say things are looking to be going in a good direction. So yeah i think its worth a shot to see what the artist here can do! there alot of talent here!

personally i think the chage will come when more people support this on there own. not in a single journal But its the best start i can see! way to start the fire!

Aye, there are tons of pornmongers out there. Remember that most people are looking for praise and validation (after all, we like to get our egos stroked) and so they draw whatever is most likely to get positive feedback from people. Drawing porn brings the most "FAP I love" comments, so that's what is drawn.

or it can just be fucking fun too draw for some people, andit also reaps other benefits, a great way to learn anatomy and improve over all skills srsly

oh I'll totally agree, porn is great ofr learning anatomy... but then so is life drawing and anatomy studies.

YEAH MAN

I DO BOTH OF THOSE AS WELL <3

Pornographic life studies! This sounds like fun...

LMAO TOTALLY

lol

After all, we like to get our egos stroked.

Unfortunately, that's what the people on this site look for, and what the money maker is. [Most of the time].
I have to be honest when I say that some of these fetishes are disgusting.
D;
I really don't want to see fat-porn.

If it gets attention, people will draw it.
If it makes money, the same thing.

I agree with the whole potential thing, too.
You won't really progress in anything if all you draw is dongs and tits all day.
]:

I don't want to start doing commissions or anything until I've improved, also why I rarely draw porn.
I kinda' just sit at the back of my class & draw people's clothing.
As creepy as it sounds. I really want to improve with that shit. D:

Drawing porn all the time doesn't benefit some of these people, only makes them look like "OMG FURFAGZ YIFF IN HELL" weird kids.

*inserts bullshit about not liking porn and how FA should be clean*

Porn is great, but not all the time, is what's being said here, guys. Cut the bullshit, damn LOL

LOL amen

lol It's funny, because I've been casually checking peoples' favs that comment on this, and it's like DONG EVERYWHERE. It's fucked up, because Renard up there's an outstanding musician, and I can pull a shitty sketch out of my ass and slap a cock on it, and it gets more favs than his best work ever will

Why? Because Furries like porn. Don't bullshit, guys, seriously LOL

Like, why is deviantART so bad? #1 reason besides the abundance of anime-influenced 12 year olds is the fact that we can't post porn. That's all I hear

So, what, Strype does a simple (for him) bustshot of him showcasing armor and rain effects, and people go ballistic. Why? Because it's rarely seen on here. If more artists, hell, including myself, tried more, think of the potential out there?

i agree with you every bit. But like i said how do you change the sub culture with out people yelling that your invading there creative commons? Best thign i can see is yeah artist that have big effects on the community to help show that but eh.
You and strype make good point thought there alot there. More than if you look up somtihgn about furries in news and its about sex and pron between popl who like animals. (that i find funny he gets a journal up and i timed out 5 mins and like 20 post haha *sees my post* way to be a sheep me LOL)

Funny thing is that, I'm a sexual person, anybody that knows me knows this for a fact. It's my nature. So my art is erotic in nature, usually. I love erotica

But that's me, not everybody else. I've heard people in the Fandom bitch about the abundance of porn, people play the whole coy game where they don't see what the big fuss is about, as far as porn goes, so on. We know this is usually bullshit, because these same people usually end up somewhere down the line either hording or drawing porn

Hell, it's affected me when I think of the fandom, matter of fact. When I first joined, I knew a little about the porn, but my experience was through deviantART, the Furries there. I thought I was odd, because I did erotica on the side, while everybody else that I got to know didn't. As time went on, I got more involved and BAM, found out about FurNation, VCL, the Kemono artists, then FA, YG, SheezyArt; I was like... Damn, I was sure as hell not alone, this is what Furries like

I don't even know how the Fandom influences my ways of thinking, these days, but I guess it might've been the initial idea that it was something special, out of the norm. I like it, I can associate with the spiritual beliefs mired under all of the phoniness that initially drew me in fully. Now, it's nothing but a bigass fetish, case-in-point with this journal, stating the obvious when it comes to general art

Yeah, an artist should draw what they like, but it is somewhat amusing that all we see is the same shit every day

I agree that they should becuse what the point in being an artist? and there is sex in almost everything in good art.adn prn isnt bad but isnt there a point where its like omg there fucking... again. i dont hitnk hes askign peoepl to drop all that becuse theres sexual type art even in his art but to try and be creative with its adn not toss ina dick to get favs

In the end, even Strype's being imposing with his latest messages. As an artist, you put out what you feel. If it's porn, it should be because it's what you like to do. If it's fantasy, great, vore, whatever.

But I see what looks like people just trying to garner attention through art, instead of showcasing what they put a little bit of theirselves into. It looks phony, two-dimensional, and same shit, different day. But it's pressured by the fact that people get Fav's for drawing a penis, while others can sit and draw a fully rendered dragon, and it gets overlooked. Case in point

Me and  bartol fucking around in oC, rather bad sketches - http://www.furaffinity.net/full/683633/

 silverone doing a finished piece - http://www.furaffinity.net/full/1496972/

I mean, how are these two comparable, and how is her favs/views so low on that pic? Because there's no showing of the cooch, no dicks, etc

People keep track of this, and want the views more than having to work hard, so you see an abumfance of stock, mediocre porn. Cause and effect, due to surroundings

In the end, what Strype says might be right, but the fact he has the pageviews/faves/comments he does WITHOUT porn, shows that it is indeed not all that "furries" are interested in. That alone is more proof than anything else that can be said or done on here. Sure people complain about DA because porn is not allowed and Anthro art is looked down upon, but FA gives them the freedom to do as they wish. This would be different discussion on DA, all about the amount of Anime fanart or Artistic Nudes. I myself, really have no taste for spooge-tastic porn, but it is the majority of this site. Do I sweat it when I make an awesome picture that has nothing to do with porn and it doesn't get as much faves as let's say a commission with cock pussy and fucking involved? No, because people are going to like what they like, and people are going to complain about what they want to complain. The difference is knowing that the people that watch/fave and comment on my art know that I, as an artist, have more to offer than simple porn. Yes I make some of it in my personal art but I always try to inject emotion into the illustration. Some are gonna see that emotion, some are gonna "fap" to it. Either way I caused a reaction in someone, and that is truly what the art should come down to. We have the freedom to do as we wish on FA, let's not get choosy about what those freedoms should entail.

lol Dude, sure, yeah. But sexuality is fused throughout his art, even inadvertently. It's like, why do any of us have to have avatars that are muscular or prettyboys? Because we want to have something appealing on the screen

In his gallery, there is cock, there are breasts, there is pussy. Yours and mine, as well. This gives hope for more of the same for a majority of his watchers, though it sucks to be real like that. Sure, some come just for his skill, and he is 'very' skilled, I've always said that. But on FA, there are many artists that do exclusive nonporn, or nonbeefcake, or just music or stories. All usually lost in the undertow.

 greening : bauske  renard_v  ghar  tredain  foxamoore, to chip off the tip of the hidden iceberg. All outstanding, all overlooked.

You don't think I had my eyes open, the few years I've been in the fandom? This is extensive research, guy.

Then I guess it is up to folks like Strype and others not lost in the undertow to help these guys come up out of the undertow. Showcase lesser known artists, do trades with them so folks then take an interest in them and go check out their pages.
The artists who do exclusive non porn, non beefcake, or music and stories are catering to the people who are interested in that. Supply and demand is a pure fact of life, even here on the net. They are not without the fans who are interested in their works, there just are not as many as the ones who are into instant gratification visually. This is an old theme and until mindsets are changed offline, it will continue online.
I came to FA an unknown in furry circles, and I admit it was because of other artists well known and liked that I got a bit of daylight. Go on out there and use the popularity you have gained to shine the light on the hidden iceberg little by little and eventually it will melt, but it is not gonna be anytime soon.

lol Dude, I've been doing this shit since I've been on FA. I plug people left and right, I try and bring everybody to where I stand, when I can. It's what I do, what I'm known for on here, why my journals get so many views, because I try and make this fucking place a goddamned community... This shit isn't new, just never done, and it's a little sad that this journal sparks such a revelation in others, when it should be rote

I watch everybody that watches me to say thanks for the watches and then some more. I have a shitload to go through every day I check on the account, and I've gotten to the point that I can skim thumbnails with skill, and though a majority of it's blaze, or people still growing, some not trying at all, there are those that I've found that were just... Hidden. So I keep my eyes on those, not the established people, because I'm curious to see if anybody else sees what I see

Usually, the case is no

Greening, on the flipside; phenominal artist, phenimonal ingenuity. Fun art, great skill. Overlooked, even after being plugged several times by somewhat established artists. Why?

Because he doesn't do porn, never will. His stuff even has the occasional big dude in it, whatever. but none of it's sexually charged, it's all just fun.

And this brings us to what? Full circle and another chip in theory that sex doesn't sell. Greening will never get to where Nek0gami or Zaush is, because the sad fact is that, as creative as he is, it's not the forefront of FA. Even Strype, if he took out all of his porn and only did clean? Yeah, I'd be amazed if he'd hold as much ground on here as he did on dA. And that's fucked up to say, but it's the truth

Do I like the truth? No. Would it stop me from doing what I do? Luckily for me, I like doing erotica, so I won't be affected as much. But I know that me posting music and character design, stories, fantasy, it slowly peels away at a fanbase that wants their porn. But it won't stop me from doing what I choose, and if I lose watches, oh well. Just probes my point here

So chill, don't try to be the white knight (I've tried for years and look at me lol), grab your dick and double-click for the dogknot, big guy. Sad but true

Sex sells

But it doesn't mean that you have to sell out, never saying that. Fuck the masses, do what you do

White Knight? I doubt I am coming to the rescue of anyone, but let's go from that to Devil's Advocate.
I agree I got to do what I WANT to do, fuck everyone else. Yeah it comes down to that, specially here on the internet. So being that the statement becomes absolute truth I say this, calling for others to rise above what they are doing, what they LIKE doing, is pure and utter bullshit.
If those artist LIKE doing erotica such as yourself, would you consider it selling out if most of their work is erotica? or would it be following what their hearts want to do?
Not everyone good is going to be popular that is a sad fact and we both agree on it, so then why are we still trying to say that with an expansion of OTHERS, they would be brought to the forefront? I know Strype, I love his attention to detail, I can see the effort he puts into them, but if he went all clean I would not stop watching him. Anyone who would stop watching him because he went all sterile, is not someone he would want as a fan anyways. Same goes for you, you want the people who can appreciate everything you do to be your fans, the rest are coincidental additions. I will say it here and anywhere else, if you don't like what is going on in a place, leave it. Don't bitch about how shit is going on in a fucking online gallery where you don't really know anyone. Including their likes or dislikes. Vote, run for president, or make your own site if you do not like what is happening around you. I am not gonna say all this and act all clean about it, because I have my grievances about shit here too, but guess what? I don't give a good dog cunt how good anyone is at anything, if I don't like it, I don't watch them.

lol I think you're misreading a little, but okay, I do agree with a lot that you're saying.

All this encompasses the fact that, though you can appreciate skill, I can appreciate skill, and there are others that'll do the same, a lot won't pay any of this mind. My thing isn't the aspect of being popular, but of using said rather inadvertent popularity to have some sort of influence, which is what's summing up all of this in the journal, in the comments

Just like you won't watch others because it doesn't interest you, I'm sure it's the same with your skill, where you're only influenced with something that you agree with. Strype's putting this out for all to see, and it's having influences both positive and negative. How he's got here is through his skill, as have we all. Power is responsibility, and how you use it affects those that are in the wake of it. He influenced you, as he has many others, and hopefully more through this journal.

But over him, and us all on this site is the premise of FA, which is to showcase all of whatever the Fandom and beyond has to offer. You talk about how this is so important, but you also agree that, hey, there are things that you don't care to see. A lot of people don't like to see more than just the porn, and a lot of the artists just don't want to draw more than just the porn. A lot don't want to think, a lot don't want to stray too far from what's pop and lose their moneypot fanbase, because their main goal is popularity, not the art. They start doing clean, or landscapes, music, they lose said influence, and it's scary to them

This is trivial to what Strype's saying, in a black/white situation, but putting it in 3D, I'm just pointing all of this out to show that there is a different view and that these are the flaws that I see that'll stop this from coming to fruition in a grand scale

It has made me think on something that's been knifing me int he back since 2005 about my own art, and it seems to make others step up about the lack of ingenuity in Furry art, no matter what their Favorites say, and every little bit helps, which is the important part of all of this. And hey, who knows; I might just be being a little too pessimistic about all of this

How about this, let's make this a meme, spread it around some, like you mentioned up there somewhere about using Journals and art to plug great ideas or hidden talent. It's normally my MO, so people expect it from me, but the fact that Strype did something and it's making a ripple as well shows that this can carry on through others. SolidAsp, Spunky, Blotch, Zaush, Nek0gami, Wookiee, so on. If you guys got in on this, made it a mass message, who knows how it might affect the Fandom, right? Isn't that the goal, in essence?

I would say anyone who wants to do it can, but if they don't then they have that option.

I don't care about a mass upheaval of artists, in either way. I don't care to inform in a united effort, because all it causes is an equal reaction from the other side. A balance is all I ask for and personal freedom.

I will do what I have always done, help who I can, how I can, when I can.

Balance is the key, and I'm not gonna expect less of you, man. Cause and effect, and the more effect, the more potential for future profit, in the form of masterful works of art. Do what you can, or choose to, and I'll do the same

Yeah.. I don't do porn at all and I get little attention. I'm not the greatest artist, but when I keep getting comments, notes, emails and requests telling (not even asking most of the time, TELLING me what I 'need' to do) me to draw porn...

But I haven't done it, because I have no interest. I accepted the lack of appreciation as a trade off for not drawing things I really don't want to.

The fandom loves porn. I can understand why people complain, but I don't think it'll ever change. So I just do what I do and deal with it, though it is annoying when I post up a sweet and innocent piece just to get 'You should draw more porn!' as the only comment on it.

If you want instant popularity, draw a masterful-looking dick, just that simple

but, if you want to feel fulfilled, then follow your Path, not anybody else's

Quote: "I plug people left and right, I try and bring everybody to where I stand, when I can. It's what I do, what I'm known for on here, why my journals get so many views, because I try and make this fucking place a goddamned community..."

Keep up your effords, you're one of the nicest guys I stumbled across here!

lol Thanks, guy. Guess you should keep an eye on  faint; he's going Saint Jude on his Journal lol

Yes, he basically writes what I think about the matter.
The number of pageviews is no measure for the quality of your art and adult stuff will always catch more attention.
I like the porn you, TaoRen, Ayndrew or others submit, but that's no reason for me to do the same.
...well maybe some nudity is okay, but no heavy stuff.

lol I dunno. I do it all, but I like drawing the peen

And you do it good!
But seriously, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of drawing my character doing nasty things...
Maybe I'll invent alternate charas, IF I ever feel like drawing porn.

lol Nobody's forcing you to do anything. Though it seems imposing, even Strype's words in the journal are nothing more than a suggestion

Do what your heart tells you to do, in the end

That's right, nobody is forced to do anything here and there is the option to hide adult art for all those who complain about it.
It seems to me many people got Strype wrong and think he demands the damnation of adult art (at least some comments appear to go into that direction) althoug this is absolutely unnecessary.
Well, whatever... as you said it, let's do what our heart tells us.
*strays off to practice his drawing skills, glad he had the chance to exchange some thoughts with the gorgeous Fenrir*

I so agree with yeah on that. Question on your thought is hwo you think it would come about? only way i could think of changing a established type of art is hat the peopl who like that art have to be out there more supporting it insead of looking at it and say o that cool and just moving on then goign to apron type thing and going gaga over it.

Support lesser known artists , blast the shit out of them on your journals front page what have you. I find new people to watch through my friend's fave list, the front page of FA is something rarely seen by me. There is an over abundance of crap art, both clean and dirty on there that I avoid.

I've gotten lucky with getting comments on my photography

Indeed. You do have an eye for composition, like  havoc_wolf does. But, hey; try putting a few fursuits in naughty positions every so often to rake in a few more views

LOL i've wanted to actualy if my friend's visit me i will be

lol Well, there ya go. More luck for you. Difficult: yes/no?

oh hey i'm stealing your messager info to chat

lol Fine. I'm trying to battle my way back onto MSN, but I tend to use AIM the most, these days (easier to state that you're busy or away and such). I tend to leave em on 24/7 unless doing something that's hogging memory like Delta Burke does a 15-tiered wedding cake

Ironically not logged on either right now, but I'll hop back on tomorrow, when I get in from work

What's sad is you're right. I second this.

You're correct. I think some of those folks you're talking about don't really care.

That's a downright shame.

I can't draw porn without being inspired, personally, and inspiration has certainly been lacking. It's one of the reasons I don't think I'll get too insanely popular XD

Also agreed. That's one reason I'm trying to expand my stories beyond simple 'stroke fiction'.

Trendane. C'mon.

*chuckle* No, I mean it! "A Lesson For Jamest" isn't sexual! And, umm..."The Witching Crimson", though it'll have an extremely violent sex scene near the beginning, most of it has nothing to do with it.

Sex is a common topic because it's easy to crank out in very short order. Extending one's self beyond that can, for those who use it as a crutch, be extremely difficult.

lol This can be true, given your surroundings and how you let yourself settle

I have to agree with you. Theres way too much porn out. Like the pictures you draw, those are just plain awesome. And you hardly draw any porn type stuff. Yeah I enjoy looking at porn but only for so little each day. I've been looking at your stuff for a few years (even though most of the time was on DA) but still I enjoy looking at your work alot more than alot of the porn here

sex sells. Quality art that is not sexy dont sell this proven by a naked fluke picture or a naked blotch picture taking thousands in auction while a widly creative or stunningly beautiful moving piece of art sells for a few bucks dontget me wrong those of us who like the expression of art can get some god deals and really have actual intelligent conversations about someones emotional piece or the message the artist was conveyng. the others are OMG UR SO HAWT I CAME. I like sex fuck my character represents that i have kinks. But funny how i dont need to smear the internet with porn of myself to get attention.

And I do listen to furry music often sadly Im not into trance or techno so i cant offer a strong comment or discussion on it. Music is an art form i am not well versed in. I agree the furry community has power and has so much potential to actually do alot more good. But its wasted on todays circle jerk of porn.


I wonder all that effort we put out for porn if for one year that money that energy was say put forth to help real wildlife. how much furries can accompolish. We do do TONS for charity but time and time again i hear .. I just spent 900 bucks on art.. And that same furry doesn't even drop a dollar into the donation bucket for the con charity.

Thanks Faint I hope some people are actually listening I too feel furry has so much potential.. And alot of its wasted to the one hand in pants salute.

I wonder all that effort we put out for porn if for one year that money that energy was say put forth to help real wildlife. how much furries can accompolish. We do do TONS for charity but time and time again i hear .. I just spent 900 bucks on art.. And that same furry doesn't even drop a dollar into the donation bucket for the con charity.

Oh man! A guy i know spend 1000 Euros on EF Art, mostly dragons, MUCH Porn..
But i didnt pay 1 Euro for the Charitything there...

Not true in a lot of cases. Art that doesn't sell is at fault of the artist... either by lack of advertising, lack of knowledge of anatomy, perspective, lighting, etc, or lack of knowing how to sell.

I'm not a porn artist and I made $2000 in two days at FWA, and I wasn't even in the art auction. I made around $15,000 in selling my art last year. I know how to sell art, how to set up my display, and I practice and practice to constantly improve my anatomy, perspective, lighthing, blah blah blah. Nonporn artists CAN make it big in furry, but I will agree, it is a LOT harder. It took me years to get a name for myself.

Also, I too would like to see furry take some of their commission budget and use it for charities. Or even see artists sell art and use that money for charities. :) An artist even once a year could say "Hey, bid on this commission. Whatever money I'll get, it will go to [whatever] charity." That would be cool too. :)

thank you for showing a counter example i never claimed my word is gospel. I am glad your able to make a decent coin with fair pricing and good customer service. But i merely speak from personal experiences and what i have observed many times.:)

And that would be utterly cool if an artist offered a commission to a chaity at AC/any con that would really help. I do feel we as furries in way should be more respectful and responsible for the animals we imitate.

lol I never claimed your word as gospel. I said "In most cases," not all cases. :)

I've often wanted to do the charity thing. I'm DEFINITELY doing the charity thing for my art auction at FWA 2010. Thing is, there are so many charities I would love to give to that I don't know which to pick first!!!

Either it's "I can't draw for shit, so I'm going to draw porn to get attention!" or "I can draw pretty good and have a decent fanbase, but drawing porn gets me even MORE attention!" I wish more people would draw more unusual anthros, experiment with artistic things like perspective, lighting and anatomy, and if they are gonna draw porn, at least think up something sensual, unique or emotional rather than covering the character and anything else they'd rather not have to put effort into, with spoo. You'd think something with as interesting an idea as anthropomorphism would spark enough interest to where people wouldn't JUST be interested in it for the porn, but I guess not.

I love porn. A lot. But only about 1/10 of it.

I think the problem isn't so much with the artists as the rest of the fanbase. An artist draws something beautiful, it doesn't get the attention they were hoping for/that it deserves, because it's not porn - said artist starts drawing more porn to get recognition/commissions, etc. etc...

"I think the problem isn't so much with the artists as the rest of the fanbase. An artist draws something beautiful, it doesn't get the attention they were hoping for/that it deserves, because it's not porn - said artist starts drawing more porn to get recognition/commissions, etc. etc..."

yes

See, you're one of the peeps I really admire for their creativity. Not many people pull off the eclectic mix of bugs, bodily mutilation and biological monstrocities as well as you, and frankly, that's thek inda stuff I wanna see more of. People working with an idea and transforming it into something truely unique and new.

On a side note, your porn is pretty hot stuff sometimes, too

Thanks. I realize that with every time I post something *I* like, it probably takes away a watcher or two, but I don't care. I do what I enjoy. And really, in that sense, the people who draw nothing but porn and don't put effort into the artistic aspect, should do just that. I really have nothing against that, it's just the people who draw porn for the sake of getting attention/popularity that irks me. Art should be fun and as long as an artist is having fun -creating- the art rather than reaping the benefits of said art after not actually enjoying its creation at all, I can't really have anything to say against them. It's late and I'm rambling :P

Amen, truly. I mean I posted what I pictured to be an amazing piece in my standards and truly a breakthrough for me artistically. And as far as comments? little. But I put up yiff art and suddenly I start getting new watches and favs and such. I love the attention but I wish it was more directed towards the pieces I'm most proud of like my bug picture or the Fear and Loathing fan picture I did.

I guess its because of many "artists" who cant get attention through outstanding colouring, lighteffects, breathtaking angles and stuff try to improve their "watches" and "PLZ LIEK ME!" with "Oh c´mon i draw porn with every character u want! YES EVEN YOURS!!11!!"

Argh.. its late here, i have a dumb output but.. do you understand what i mean?

hmm as an artist i dont daw porn offent...very very rare for me to. Besides i find it very creepy with some of the stuff drawn...If i do nudes i try to make them tactful if im not laughing my ass off long enough to do so.

Porn is rather amusing when not creepy

I guess it's the nature of the beast (so to speak). Like some people said, most of the viewers out there won't give a fuck if it doesn't tingle they're no-no spots.

Shit, I'd like more people to do more things in the fandom, besides your run of the mill comic or what have you. Hell, I'd like to see more animated shorts or features, but I get the feeling from the peanut gallery that it's ,"Too much effort."

More often then not, most of the kids see it more as a hobby and haven't looked at it as more than that. I want to make this a business for me, to produce artwork for the masses. This can be an outlet leading to so much more.

TOTALLY, ITS FUN TO FUCKING DRAW
BUT IT HAS LITTLE VALUE SO I ALSO DRAW CORN AND OTHER ODD VEGATABLES IN MY SPARE TIME.

so yeah totally its sad that some people can only draw that shit, maybe im being a hypocrite but i draw lots of stuff.

hehe I'll have to think up some cool concepts to spam fa with that arent in any way gratituous

Because everyone likes sex. It's one thing that no matter how different people are, they have at least one thing in common and that's they enjoy sex. Even if they think they don't, it's not physically possible to not enjoy a stiumulation you're biologically programmed to comprehend as "good". Your body will enjoy it even if your mind does not. So, due to the fact that sex is the most common thing everyone can associate with, thusly the most common thing in the furry fandom is porn. And honestly, I'm mostly into the furry fandom FOR the porn, sex and free alcohol, so I really have no complaint.

Actually a lot of people are in this fandom for the community, the tight knit people who in the end will know everyone else one way or another. Do we all like porn? Yes i will not deny that but that isn't a factor for only furries. Its human nature to fuck and be fucked.

You are they type of person who makes me question the integrity of this fandom. A over zealous cock-mongler so to speak.

I choose not to associate with this fandom on any deeper level other than for sexual release because of drama precisely like your insult towards me. I'm not here on the Internet to argue with you, or with anyone else. I don't come home to fix everyone else's problems and I'm never in a mood to be bitched at, teased, or anything else. I'm here to have fun and the furry fandom frankly is just not fun in that kind of way. Furries are not my friends, I just happen to be one and my boyfriend just so happens to be one. But that's about as far as it goes.

you are the reason we can't have good things ifg you think this site is for teenage chit chat only.

and you wonder why i laugh at you people when you whine about too much porn

Its what I get commissioned to draw, so its what I create.

I in fact draw some pretty varied things in my free time, why upload it to a site designed for porn ? :3

Thank you!

Much of the art that gets attention is porn. Unfortunately that's how the brain works. Sex (for most) is a strong persuader.

Porno images can take away from the whole work, tasteful nudes and a nice intimate moment are another thing. My favorite furry peace of, probably, all time is a Karabinger work where Renamon and Leomon are hugging & kissing, renamon's teat is barely noticeable which makes it an adult work but the work is so lovely...

I won’t deny that porn makes up an unfair portion of all work but that is also how the human brain works. Guys think about girls (well straight guys), a lot of things not limited to cars, fruit, vegetables, landscape, bottles, buildings and airplanes have been referenced to the human body, namely the female human body.
I won’t deny that Sex sells but it’s starting to get out of control.


 crocdragon89 not much of a porno artist but a good (and fast working) artist none the less. Though I would put that out there.

That's the bad thing about FA. And FA, being the biggest furry community there is, transfers this message all over the world. This is why we have furry haters. :U

But yeah. I hope that avatar of yours is connected to a full piece, because it's fucking hardcore.

Oh, I didn't mean FurAffinity provided the haters, I meant it pretty much gives them more reason to be haters.
There's haters for everything who have no reasoning, but I'm saying if FA was much less pron affiliated, there would be less furry haters.

Sadly no, I did up a head and DraconicaNimbus (she's over on DA, check out her stuff if you haven't already, the woman is INSANELY GOOD at colouring) coloured it up for me.

Insanely? Please, she's one of the best I've seen in the community. I don't think she even has a tablet, last I heard.

hehe I helped her get a tablet a few years back ;D but in all honestly she was pwning jesus before she got it |D

Gaaaah, You spoil her too much!

probably lol but considering how much we've been through together its the least she deserves. besides dealing with and loving a nutcase on a daily basis should yield some reward lol

Have you ever checked out artspots?

There is some/much talent there.

Porn requires no artistic thought, all you really need is a mild understanding of anatomy and you can become a big hit with the fandom. It's simply a standard that was set a long time ago, back when the furry fandom was a new thing on the internet. Some of the most popular artists on this website and the fandom in general have become popular or furry namesakes simply for drawing porn.

While there are other artists who have become popular for other reasons, like Jay Naylor for Better Days or what's her face for Las Lindas, it's just alot more work in comparison. Porn just a much easier route is all. Someone probably already said that too. D8

I approve of this message.

I draw what I like...and what I like is nudity, weird fetishes, and porn. I like sharing these things---but whether others like them or not isn't really relevant to whether I'll continue to draw it or not. If one of my pics evokes feelings of lust and someone rubs one out to it...great. That's awesome. The orgasm is a wonderful thing and I'm happy to have contributed to that.

Why is that 'wrong' or uncreative? Why does that make another artist (who does not draw porn, or nearly as often) somehow 'better'? Because their art evokes feelings of 'omg that's beautiful' instead of 'omg that's hot *FAPFAP*?'.

It doesn't make them better...not by a long shot. It makes them seem pretentious and sour grapes that people they deem 'beneath them', artistically or otherwise, have a higher fanbase/more praise/more comments/fetch higher prices/ect.

The furry fandom consist of mostly late-teen-adult men. Men are visual (testosterone-induced biological fact). Men also have a high sex drive (again, testosterone-induced biological fact). In a fandom composed almost entirely of men...yeah, there's going to be a HUGE amount of sex-focused content. It's inevitable. Even anime has its hentai (and yaoi, which is rapidly catching up). Look at how much money people spend on sex and sex related items/services...just in the US.

Sex is a huge part of human nature...whether you view it as making love, sharing something intimate with another, or just a fun way to feel great for a little while, people will always be interested in doing it, seeing it, and expressing it.

I won't deny the draw of porn, nor that it has it's place in this community, cause really, a lot of peeps came here FOR the porn and only the porn, and also, porn does evoke a response from the viewer, like art is supposed to. My beef is that there's such a high saturation of it that it just seems like that's the main thing the fandom does.

I'll admit, I love the porn, and I hope it never ever goes away, but I want people to expand their horizons a bit as well and maybe do something interesting and new with the genre

Not all of it is porn.

Maybe that's just what you are looking for

Damn straight! I actually enjoy clothed art MUCH more than the porn stuff. Now I still like the sexual side plenty to favorite things and all that, sure. But I would always rather be looking at a well drawn and portrayed character as they naturally, casually are rather than just the sex-centric scenes of their lives. :b

I think the very porn aspect of this community that so many people speak against is actually what makes it so unique. It takes quite a bit of imagination to come up with some of the bizarre fetishes that furries seem love and it's even more challenging to push those ideas to their limits. It's not simply about art but about pushing the boundaries of emotion and sexuality in images.

You can't try to apply the same standards to the furry community that would be applied to a community like conceptart.org or other such groupings. Furry isn't just about the animals it's about the use of an external avatar that is capable of enhancing and creating new experiences for those that use them. The animal merely sets a neutral stage completely open to the application of any emotions we desire.

Anyone can draw a squirrel with boobs the size of dump trucks and 15 cocks but it really takes a true artist to make that appealing.

Things like this can't really be explored in other communities as easily as with furry.

Y'know, as odd as it is to admit, you do have a point.

Very elegantly spoken. You make very valid arguments, and I agree with you completely. This is something I am sure many people including myself have tried to say, but it is not very easy to express this view so clearly. Thank you.

;)

I kinda agree with you there, but porn isn't the only way to express and explore new dimensions of one's imagination. Lust isn't the only emotion we have, nor is it even the strongest. There are many more aspects of human emotions: joy, wrath, hope, sadness... I guess folks fear that they may seem overly dramatic, and since porn is so widely accepted, they settle on using their creativity in erotism. At least that way they can be like everyone else. If thats the case I find it rather ironic: we seek to withdraw from the maisntream culture only to follow mainstream phenomenons of our own.

the thing is, most beginner artist want some attention too and whats get the most attention here is porn so its obvious that most of them will try their best to get known by porn. but the sad part is, they probably don't want to be known as porn artist but as a full artist but most of all the commissions. includes porn. I cant say i dislike porn but when i see interesting work, porn or not, it gets my attention and i leave a comment that express my appreciation and also sometimes when i see something that bugs me, i tell them and i try to give them advises. Now, what i advise to the new members who wants some attention, draw some fan arts... that's what i would do. There's all kind of fans who like to see their favorite anime/videogame character. I don't say ill never draw porn, sometimes there's some inspiration that are from your own fantasies but yea. i plan to do maybe a comic someday and all. There's plenty of options other than porn. So that pretty much all i had to say. peace!

My favorite color is clear? o3o

mine too?

You has one scary avatar after the next xD
*lick nearest window* .......>.O

I just wish i could draw :p

im a 3d artist but so far not really dabbled much into character art.

i should at some point try it again. i could make porn... And i could make arty renders :p

I for one fav and watch good porn artists. And good artists.

While the majority of my favs are erotica I also fav good peace's of art like your art. it has a great illustrative feel and the work in color and shading its great.

i also fav good concept work if i see it.

But FA 70% of the time for me... Is about porn. I just keep a good look out for good art too.

Really wish i proof read that before hitting submit :D Sorry

Porn is okay, but some people really seem to post it just to shoot their pageview-counter up into the sky and to get some attention.
I'm not saying that I'll never post any porn, but it's just not the way for me to express myself.
I'm very proud of my 250 views without any porn and I'm even more proud of the nice people I met here like SilverFenrir!!!
One thing that I really liked and that shows what a cool community we are, was the wave of fendersuit-avatars ( © fatbat ) that you could observe earlier this year or the huge response Kuma got, when he had trouble with his parents and hadn't anywhere to got but this place.
Stripe, you really have a point here that this community has a barely used potential beyond porn!

Sorry, this wasn't supposed to end up here...

I know well the feeling you are trying to express here. Though the problem is not really the porn itself. There are quite a few artists now (many more than there were 10 years ago or so) who are very skilled and don't even draw porn at all, and yet nothing really outstanding is emerging yet.

IMHO skill and motivation are not lacking in the fandom, quite the opposite... there is a lot of both, but it's rational ideas to channel them which seem to be a bit lacking. Probably the only way porn can be balanced is by making other art more appealing than porn, which is not an easy task, because well executed porn is VERY appealing for humans (though nobody used to tell that back in art classes at school ^_^) and it is not easy to draw attention away from it. Even more than skill it requires a lot of ideas which people may find worth of their attention. There are such ideas in the fandom, but it might be really hard to build upon them enough "food for thought" to fulfill more people than the porn does.

You really surpassed me there in intellectual hard boiled reason. Ofcourse there are no limits to gaze upon some where deep inside thinking "I could do that". I admire your spunk (no pun intended). You certanly have charisma and class in what you do and that beyond what I have seen as far said what furry fandom can bring. Tough I am simple and just comment for others self asteem boosts -making others feel more respected in their own eyes makes me feel great in return- [i do hope that it wouldn´t be hypocrithic of me] I do draw from time to time, mear doodles of... well... kindergarden drawings in compaire to how you pull of reference sheets among other "GAW!" giving pieces of "Holy Crap!" Not to over analyze and getting straigt to the finishline and wrapping it up -getting reminded how you wrote this journal and frankly feels timidated- I salute your initiativ and humbly follow the show from the guidelines, in silent revereness, other then future drawings that just urges me to atleast say something...

I have been looking for something like that forever that would challenge me in my art. Without an art teacher to make me push my envelope i just got lazy. Maybe thats whats happening. People are getting lazy and drawing things that are the easiest fav getters instead of making something new because new scares people.

Wow thank you for so eloquently wording an issue I've pondered about both myself, and others

epic truths. even  chimera-synx does amazingly different porn.

oh fuck typo. idk you know who i mean

I like doing my clean work. I like illustrating and writing my story... but there are times when I just want to draw one of them holding a giant toy or have her boobs hang out. I think it's good for artists to expand their knowledge, of course it is. Then again, I mostly draw for myself so eff it if someone else doesn't like it, I'm not asking them to.
but i will say that i have roped in new fans of my clean work, by them seeing a mature work of certain Characters of mine. tsch tsch.

I wish to make superdetailed things in the future. When i get better :D
That is all. lol nothing important to say.

Agreed, I really don't understand a lot of it myself. If people are so.... starved for such things... meh I dunno. But I don't draw porn, I have a couple of nude pics, but nothing so explicit as a ginormous tittied herm... how did you say it? "Gargling cum like its Listerine?" *snicker*
And actually, I find that something with more substance than just T&A keeps my attention a hell of a lot longer, and I will come back to those images and look at them time and time again. Porn usually makes me go "eh.." before promptly clicking my back button.
But then again, I am a self proclaimed oddity x3

I understand with what your saying and I think others have as well. I've noticed some artists say "You know, I'm going to start doing clean work. I'll still draw porn, but I need to try something new." Which is great. I'll be honest, I love the porn aspect as much as the next person, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy clean artwork as well. As a matter of fact, I love clean artwork as much as adult....it's just that there's more adult artwork here than clean. I'm not an artists so the only artwork I can post is what other artists have done for me, and I know that for a good long time, the comissions will be clean. The only thing I can post here that is of my own creation, are stories. Sure, there'll be adult stories, but there'll be clean as well. But like others have said, it's also up to the fans to remove their hands from their pants and open their minds to clean art.

I prefer furries for furries not for porn^^ There's enough porn all over the net already lol That's why I don't draw porn, some are better than me with that and I really don't want^^ (I think all will see me as a naive guy now XD )

A lot of what has been said before is quite true, though it is not just furries that draw porn. Nearly every fandom has porn in it drawn by the fans, some of it hetero and some homosexual. Various animes, even Star Trek has it in there (I've read Kirk/Spock action and seen the slash music videos of the pairing).

Sure, it would be great to see more works that are breath taking. The sad thing is that each person views art differently from the figurative person sitting next to them. Your work, Strype, is very attention grabbing, the colors are very vivid, as are the works by  alphachimaera.

There are those that even though I have them on my watch list, some are just absolutely boring because of falling into the cookie cutter molds. This is due to either feeling too comfortable in the same sets of poses, drawing style or whatnot. There's one person that I took off my watch because he would post profiles of many different characters in the exact same pose whether or not they were male or female (same person had the nerve of stating in a journal that he was taking some off of his watch list because their art was in the exact same poses and were not aesthetically inspiring for him...hello, pot, this is the kettle calling). I know that I can be found guilty of not challenging myself enough in my digital art, though I work with what I can.

Perhaps many do not challenge themselves like they should because they only have lower end art programs (though I've even seen magnificent things happen in MS Paint) so they don't want to try, or their efforts at trying do not seem to be, pardon the phrase, shitting masterpieces that make the works of the great masters look like finger paintings out their ass and most people do not want to look at that except for friends.

bleh, I have rambled X3

In my defense, I can't really draw so I got no basis for that. However, I got tons of wicked ideas I've created like different alien species with histories and cultures I've spent a good long while creating. I got a story and a whole world I've been working on for years now. If only I could draw, believe me you'd be seeing some nice stuff. :/

I honestly have to agree with you, hon. I recently posted a journal of a FANTASTIC artist with loads of potential that only has a lil' over 3000 pageviews, because she doesnt draw porn or erotica. Her artwork is exquisite, as are many others on this site. Problem is, if you want to really have your art known and get your foot in the door for industries and such, this site wont really give you that. Its a community, not really a gallery. Try out conceptart.org or deviantart (which I dont particulalry like because they are very picky as to what is "art" or not). Thats my humble opinion, but I do understand your frustraition and aggravation.

well FA is being what it is. if we put "furry porn" at other sites then furry haters gonna bash it
and besides I do have some idea. but I figured no one is interested

I have to agree with most of what is being said, and you've made some valid points, Strype. I've been trolling the fandom for 8 years, and the vast majority of what I've seen in writing and art is pornographic in nature. I enjoy a well-written love story or a tastefully done piece of smut (porn IS really fun to wank to :P), but my focus when it comes to this stuff is the emotion, the passion, the love, and the flavor (yes, flavor).

I'm an aspiring writer myself. I have several stories I've written over the years, but it's only recently that I've begun actually showing people my work. I often fall into stymies, however, because I focus more on the interactions between characters, their conversations and reactions, and their daily lives. I do have the occasional sex scene in my work, but I love a story full of STORY.

It's a shame to see so many people squander away their talent trying to become the next Cock Lass or Titty Man, even though some artists really do put out some amazingly well-done and sensual pieces. One of my favorite artists,  spiritcreations, does incredible work with paintbrush, digital tablet, and airbrush, and I'll watch her for life. Your artwork's emotion and visceral nature is awe-inspiring as well, and I hold you two, along with several others, as the pinnacle of what furry art and literature can be.

I'll forever look for the next big artist or writer, and I'll support those who deserve it as long as I can. I just hope that my fervor, your desire, and the wills of those furries who desire substance with their smut can pull this fandom into a more cohesive and intelligent lot.

For those who do fit the aforementioned criteria, just ignore me. :P

Oh hun, thank you so much! :) Your words really mean so much to me! *squeeze* Awww, I have tears in my eyes now. LOL You just made my day. :)

Kinda funny that now she'll probably click on my gallery and the recent submission is a wolf jacking off. LOL Oh well... I mentioned in my own post why I took a few porn commissions since I need money ASAP. Plus, I find uploading the porn as a very interesting study. I've gained about 20 watchers in the past half hour. It's just proving my own point about how oversexed the fandom is.

Anyways, thank you hun! *hugs*

I does agree^^

Or maybe we can continue to draw whatever the fuck we want. :D Some of us want to draw what interests us, not necessarily what interests you, and if you don't enjoy that, well... suck it up. I draw what I draw because it's stuff I want to see, and guess what? Some of what I want to see is porn. Sadly for some, I still have yet to reach a level where I can draw them to my own satisfaction.

Seriously, there's shitloads of artists who do some incredibly creative non-smut stuff. Check out people like Tesso, or oCe, or Ursula Vernon. Jen Seng draws incredible stuff, and I almost always get a giggle out of whatever Macroceli offers up. Iiji offers some fascinating compositions, and Ollie Canal has done more world building than some RPGs I've seen. All these artists just off the top of my head. And guess what? They've all drawn porn.

Some of us express and expand our creativity in methods other than yours. If you're unable to see past the tits, dick and ass, that's *your* problem, and I see no reason why I should change my methods to suit you. It's no different than the guy who comments, "This would look better if it were a (my preferred gender)" or, "Why doesn't anybody draw *my* fetish?"

It's frustrating as hell and makes me want to do more of exactly what that person doesn't like. Because I know that somebody else will.

Amen.

Did I say I hated porn? Fuck no. Am I forcing anyone to change? fuck no. I'm just saying that there's a lot of potential in the genre and that it's my personal opinion that we have way too much of good thing and the average furry porn artist should think a bit about diversifying.

And I gotta say all those artists you mentioned are exactly the kinda thing I'd wanna see more of because they don't -just- do porn. they diversify, and it's fucking awesome

Then why is your complaint central to porn? The entire journal seems to be summarized as, "You all draw too much smut, and not enough of it is what I like!"

The thing is, of all those artists I listed, maybe one of them isn't making a living with their artwork or making a best effort. But the thing is, not everyone wants to do that. Some of us draw for the hell of it; because it's a fun hobby, like the woodworker who makes nothing but spinning tops and has for the past forty years.

Not everyone needs to push the boundary of what is considered art. While I agree, it would be incredibly awesome if there were *more* people who did, I don't think it's necessary. Besides, many people are at a stage where those 42Q tits really are pushing their skills to the limit.

Ten years ago, there was a really good artist named Eric Blumrich. He drew pretty much anything that crossed his plate, and did a damn fine job of it. He finally went utterly batshit and after denying that he'd ever drawn porn, he went on a diatribe much like yours and came out with this. http://coon.dyndns.org/~ben/problem2.jpg As you can see, it did him a whole lotta good.

Not everyone's going to draw everything perfectly, and with a fandom where the major population is people in their 20s, a good portion of it is going to be porn. Find the artists you like, and sooner or later, the rest will catch up. Or maybe they won't. But ultimately, all you'll accomplish by getting worked up about it is getting an ulcer.

Fuckin A.

Also, what the shit? How many ass kissers can there be in one journal who agree with the poster. I would like to see some more Debate here, you know? For the most part it's a bunch of hypocritical bullshit. Oh there's too much porn, well you know if we assume people draw what they want then we can assume people want porn. As an artist I get maybe 1 out of 10 commissions that is a nice non sexual request. As far as I can tell, people really really want porn in this fandom. So be it. Reading all these comments though, makes one feel like a majority of these people think there is too much porn, and I KNOW for a fact that some of these people do almost nothing but porn. What hypocrisy.
As far as I can tell we just got ourselves another opinionated loudmouth artist who thinks it's cool to abuse his fans because guess what, furries Love the abuse. Fair nuff but that don't make this point any more valid than anything else in this mad mad fandom.

true, true, there is a major obsession with porn here. i admit, i do enjoy the porn a few people here come out with, and i do understand that there is way more to art than just that. i ought to put out more artworks, myself...

there are many better things than having tits and cocks popping out of every inch of bare skin, like technology, or epic tales of adventure, or poetry and music. i've actually seen a musician or two here that did bring tears to my eyes on numerous occassions.

so yeah, i agree.

PS: i probably would have gone with "leper-lickingly retarded" or as a homage to good ole Yatzee, "pants-on-head retarded", just to put that out there ^^

100% Agree! Not everyone is here for the porn, and it's really damn annoying to have to sift through all of it for something worth looking it.

And most of the porn drawn is just bad.

Funny enough, even if it's bad porn, some people still give it more views than a creative piece.

It's a well known fact that most furries are attracted to the color red in the form of a square.

Good God, you've already got a ton of comments. Well, here is one more.

You just said everything that I've been screaming for years. I totally 100% agree with you and support you on this opinion. I actually am in a dire situation (I have to move in a few weeks across the country and am trying to raise money for gas... gah!!!) so I took a few porn commissions just because I know I would get some immediately. Sad, huh? Timril mentioned this journal in my latest submission, and I'm glad he did. You posted a great journal.

I've made so many journals about this exact same topic it's ridiculous. Have your porn, enjoy it, but damn... stop jackin' off for five minutes and stop and smell the roses. Life offers other things than just hypercock foxes and a variety of fetishes so disturbing it makes me ashamed to be on this planet. I also agree that I would love to see more non-porn art and see these wonderful artists who draw nothing but porn expand their horizons. Thing is, they'd probably improve their skill even more!!! There are only so many sex positions that you can draw and you get used to the anatomy in those repetitive positions after awhile. I'd definitely love to see everyone expand their horizons.

One of my best buds is a porn artist. I love him to death, really I do, but I'm sick of how obsessed with sex he is. It actually grosses me out. He talks about how he's a male so it's not his fault he's overly horny. Umm... news flash, girls get horny, too. :/ (Isn't horny such an ugly word?) He also says that humans are inherently sexual beings (duh, all living creatures are... well, most of us) and that art is about emotion, and the strongest emotion is sex. Last time I checked, sex isn't an emotion... being aroused is a feeling induced by chemicals in the brain, like emotion, but that emotion is lust or love. Sex is just the act. There are MANY other ways an artist could express that same emotion without drawing pornography. They could draw two lovers simply supporting each other through a bad day or accepting one another even though they have differences or sharing a meal or so many freakin' options that you would never run out of pictures to draw. Thing is, it would be HARD to draw a picture and convey that emotion. Every artist needs a challenge, otherwise we just stagnate. But no, you can't jack off to that. Well, if one used their imagination, they may pick up on that energy and feel the love between those two subjects. Grr... I'm just so sick of his porn excuses... it drives me nuts and I can't understand it. Oh well, he is who he is and I will always support him, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with him. We usually just don't talk about this subject and agree to disagree.

Either way, fantastic journal. :D Sorry to ramble... I'm just so passionate about this subject.

Furry is porn. If the animal characters aren't having sex in said story or art, its just....well art. Don't fuse the subculture of furrdom with art. Things just get frustrating and confusing if ya do.

.............Said the filfth monger. Xp

Whew! It looks like a lot of folks have responded rather pointedly to this issue so far. Honestly, I doubt if you'll get as far down the list as to read my response, but I'll say my piece just the same.

The pornography issue is perhaps THE biggest identity crisis for the furry fandom. Anyone outside the fandom who knows it and everyone inside the fandom knows about it and it's so prevalent that it cannot be avoided. It's become one of the main identifying factors of what a 'furry' is, and I think it's terribly sad that in spite of the long history of humans anthropomorphizing animals for fictional, political, and commercial purposes that the last 10 years have transformed the whole concept into a carnal enterprise.

I've also brought up the issue before. I very rarely draw porn, and I believe that this is part of the reason I don't have many page views (though attention is growing). When I throw the question out, "What can I do to draw attention to this great idea?", there's invariably a response suggesting that I start drawing pornography. Even I'm on the verge of admitting that porn = fame in the fandom, but then I wonder- if we let ourselves believe this, how on Earth can we pull ourselves out of it?

I think that the fandom is caught in sort of an unending spiral- not a death spiral, I suppose, but not a good one either. We reason to ourselves that pornography equals fame, and so we justify drawing it as a necessity to get attention. This attracts the kind of person who only enjoys pornography, and not only that, it builds the economy of the fandom around them. Because the porno enthusiasts are the only ones willing to pay the artist for indulging their fetish, the artist becomes attached to this habit and suddenly it becomes essential.

It comes down to this- people may be interested in both innovation and smut, but right now people are much more willing to pay for smut than they are innovation, and until a large enough section of the fandom exists to say "Hey, this isn't right. I shouldn't have to live in a cultural cloaca just because I like fox people! I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!" pornography will continue to rule the fandom. It will continue to rule because that's where the money is, and all the idealism and philosophy in the world won't change the fandom if it doesn't generate the revenue required to feed the artists.

Because smut and innovation are mutually exclusive.

Because sexuality is an inherently corrupting ideal.

Because pornography and mediocrity are inexorable from one another.

Because everything that's wrong with furry can be traced back to this single freedom.

Honestly. I don't care. Porn is entertainment and it keeps me entertained.

That said, I WOULD like to see some awesome serious artistic shit around here. The problem is, not everyone is actually that good. When it comes, it comes, and it will be good. I'm not gonna pretend acting holier than though over porn is gonna get anything done. For a lot of us, drawing mindless porn is actually helping us adapt to sequential design/layout as well as good posing. Porn is obviously not necessary for practice in these pursuits but it makes the end product more entertaining to the audience.

I myself completely agree with this. I'll admit yeah the porn is a nice little bit to have, but seriously give me a Rembrandt, or a Picasso, or a Da Vinci and I would stare at it and study their masterful techniques way longer than I ever would stare at a smut piece in one sitting. Yeah I've drawn smut too but I draw smut like I drink a good beer, next to never.

I would much rather improve my skill through other means than drawing genitals repeatedly, and that's what I intend to do. I'm not going to be drawing smut in my future career. I'd rather draw interesting concepts that pop into my head that I might be able to use and pitch to my bosses at some point or another.

Just my two cents.

Pedestalmonger.

It's so good to hear someone finally come out and say that 8D I love the occassional romantic humpy pic as much as the next guy but like you say furry art has so much potential that it's a crime to subject it to only erotic work

Gonna try and keep it short since so many have replied.

Sadly, I think it's up to everyone...and let's face it, most people come for porn. You can plug people who do clean/interesting/nonporn related shit but people tend to pass them by. Lame but it seems to be the trend.

There are definitely people who appreciate it though. I myself should get in the habit of remembering to fave stuff. Most of the stuff I find truely amazing on here is cleaner art with great emotion/action/coloring/etc that really makes the pic worth a thousand words.

I'd use  thumbclawz as an example...he has a knack for knowing about unique creatures, and follows up by giving them wicked cool looking color schemes...plus you often end up learning about some cool insect or aquatic life...there's no limit on it.

That guy's awesome in my books. Probably one of the few artists in the fandom who can actually draw a herm with a cock shorter than 14 inches. Plus the designs and mixes he comes upwith are incredible and memorable. I'll never forget that batmunk.

Ah yes, the tao of the furry fandom. We yearn to be so much more but still trap ourselves in base desires, we have the potential for greatness yet we squander it on things so petty.
And then there's the writers... We're no better despite getting infinitely less attention then even the worst artist.

I really didn't feel like reading 128 comments. So if it's already posted I Apologize. There's three reason why people can't reach the potential and why there's mostly porn to browse through. (I truly have no room to talk though. I haven't posted anything)

1: A lot of us amateurs can't draw to save our lives. And the more experienced artists won;t even hand us a clue on drafting.
2: People draw porn for page views, They think once they reach enough page views they get a prize.
3: People are also willing to pay top dollar for good porn. So to attract these "customers" artists put out their best kind.

I don't agree with number one. Granted I'm sure some are like this, but most artists are ready and willing to offer advice on how to 'get there'. I think the main thing is that there isn't a sure-fire super quick way to become that skilled. Art really is about practice and discipline, as far as the learning goes. Those more skilled don't tell beginners that to intimidate them, it's merely the truth.

I've had non-furry people ask me to teach them how to draw, but I really can't provide them any more or better help than they could provide themselves with books, references, and doing it constantly.

The second I do agree with. I'm personally more interested in my comments, but since I get fairly intelligent comments on a regular basis, I'm very satisfied despite not being known.

The third I absolutely agree with. :/ But all I can do is make sure I put my own money towards non-porn, one cannot make the average customer change.

So by disagreeing with the first comment there, are you saying that raw talent isn't a factor at all? I'm not saying anything either way, but do you believe that artistic skill can be taught to anyone who has seemingly no prior aptitude what so ever?

I think raw talent can give an edge mostly because it enables quicker learning because an individual with talent already has either an innate understanding or because they'll pick it up much faster.

An individual with sheer determination however can do the same thing, it may simply take more time and/or effort.


I think that's true for things even outside of art. Intelligent people(Above the average IQ specifically) or those with a knack for academics may seem to make A grades without any effort at all. But even those without those talents can make A grades themselves if they apply themselves and work for it.

I really want to believe what you're saying is true, but I can't say that I've ever heard of someone who didn't have at least some degree of natural talent go on to establish his or herself as an artist. But then again, I don't exactly toss that word around lightly. In a lot of respects, I still don't consider myself to be an artist, especially not in the same vein as the historical greats, but I don't think there are many people around that can be held to that standard.

I've actually talked to a number of artists who have said that you can draw if you actually put the effort into it...and in that sense, anyone can draw. It's just that many people choose to say they can't and don't bother putting the effort to seriously try it out.

I didn't draw much at all growing up (like many artists seem to say they do) and I took an art class in college. When I forced myself to really do it, I actually came out with some decent looking stuff. I'm currently doing more research to "teach" myself how to draw. We'll see where it goes.

You haven't heard because once established and slightly infamous, it's pretty impossible to tell how much of their artwork is talent and how much is sheer honed skill without knowing a very detailed past history.

I am NOT a 'talented' artist. I started at the bottom and I've struggled all the way where I am now by my own work, not on an innate ability or understanding. Therefore art can be learned. I'll admit it gets easier to learn once you have a strong foundation, but that isn't the same as having talent.

I will reply to you because your first point is a big contributor to this problem. I do my part to help anyone who asks me for help. I am not big artists, btu I knwo what it is like to be on the bottom.

Yeah, but this is what I'm talking about. This is what's going on. Where's the influence, right?

Good. I need help. Could I get your opinion on something then. I need help in a bad way. I want the opinion of a fellow artist. I'm a writer with no graphic talent at all. Inasmuch, I have no means of attracting anyone to the prologue of the next piece I'm working on. I've tried getting the opinions of other artists that I watch and can't seem to get them to even look. It's only a few short pages.

Please help me. You can find it at...

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1547966/

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I will take a look at it but I got to say I am better with my stylus than my typing, so I am not sure how much I can help you.

Thanks, man. I appreciate the review.

#1 is not entirely true! I help others, and others help me! Just ask!

1) UM, there is no "penis-enlarging" patch for drawing and artistic skill -
its learn and cultivated over time. I myself have taught life drawign classes
at cons for years, given crit, and honest help to everyone who's asked me,
you observation that "boo hoo, there is NO one out there who'd help anyone get better at drawing" is just plain stupid. There are alot of helpful people in this fandom like that - and THAT is one of the good fucking things about this fandom.

2) the pageveiw counter on this site are inaccurate - this is a fact confirmed by the site Admins on many many occanssions, being a page-view whore is not going to get you anywhere - and for goodness sake - who knows where they com from anyway! The only reliable barometer for an artist is comment and feedback -
and that is something anyone who puts their time and effort into soemthing wants most.

3) People will pay top dollar for what they are willing to pay top dollar for at the time ! Your statement is a glaring generality - if you were stranded in the desert I am sure you pay top dollar for a nice coolor full of icewater ! Fact - Sex sells - and people like sex - OH NOEZ !

Now that's just hostility all around.

1: Why did you say "penis enlarging" patch. I was hoping for a pill. And where are all the helpers huh? You don't post have journals or any way of us knowing where you are. Thanks.

2: It's still there. And it still goes up. It doesn't need to be accurate to give excitement to someone who is about to reach 1,000,000.

3: And I wasn't complain about how sex sells. Your accusing me wrongly.

I guess you were mad when you typed this. I apologize if I offended you somehow. But I'd appreciate a little less hostility. Thanks

Props to Spirit creations and those of you adding constructive non flaming bitchy remarks to the topic there is hope after all that we haven't all become trolls and lulz seeking troglodytes itching to tear everyone else a new one when we don't agree.

Its refreshing to see a bit of maturity and manners.

I agree too. I won't say that my writings haven't had sex in them so far, (the first story was years ago anyway, the recent one was made for my bf, who was feeling lonely, and the intimacy was meant to be a passionate evening between two lovers), or that my favorites aren't mostly pornographic, but I do in fact agree. Whenever I have daydreams of my character, it's mostly action-oriented, or peaceful scenes, not necessarily sexual. Hell, I wish I could draw, I'd have a ton of cool-looking shit in my gallery.

Didn't have time to read all the comments, but I'm sure they were awesome. Anyway, I agree completely - there's so much weird porn around of furries it's disturbing ... no wonder we have a bad rep!

I agree as well, especially since my gallery has almost no porn at all. I often ask people in the fandom why my artwork never sells....they simply say, its cause i dont draw porn....i could if i wanted to, but I dont see the necessity of it

Well I hope it catches on because personally I need a good critic or two...Selfish yeah, but it helps to have some. I'll do my part even though I still currently suck. But hey, can't start perfect, right? Besides, that would help other artists...More better artists, the more critics and the more critics, the more better artists. I have a better chance finding good critics here than on DA because...DA from my eyes seems to be nothing but Naruto fanart and as it was mentioned earlier, artistic nudes.

...Yet I post stuff there and have stopped here...Why the hell did I do that for? Maybe I should post some of the other stuff I've done...

I've always wanted to draw a huge furry comic, and sex would only be in one scene, if any. I can't draw though, so I guess if anything, I'm just going to have to make it a novel.

I totally understand that. I couldn't illustrate to save my life. Go for the novel.

I'm gonna masturrrrrrrrrrrbate, till the break of daw-ya-ya-ya-yaaaaaawn.

Please check out hipflask.com. Elephantmen is one of the best comics on the market right now. It's furry, and not at all porn.

But God bless 'em for making the women in the comic have an unusual attraction to ol' Hip. :D Mwuahaha.

But yeah, one of my favorite comics ever...

pron.

*Casts his thought out comment into the sea of better-known people*
I think that the main reason for the flood of porn for the basis of FA's submissions is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's got the most stable artistic baseline. I mean, it's really hard to draw something meaningful and know when it's good, even by personal standards. But, when it comes to porn there is only one goal; "Is it fappable? Yes? Mission accomplished."

Think this is at all founded, or just personal examination?

being a writer I don't really count around here, but writing is one of the medium where boundaries seem to be pushed, a lot of good writers on here don't even have porn in their galleries.

for myself I will write pretty much anything except Horror and comedy.

I think the majority of furies that aren't here *almost* exclusively for porn are lurkers.... like me.
I may reply to something once or twice a month at most. I just lack the experience to say more than a clone comment like: "awesome" or "I like it!"

I have been here for over a year and have posted a few ... ok looking works. None of my stuff is adult rated, and I have 6 watchers and almost 300 page views (80% are me showing my friends the site or checking my shouts).

I appreciate good art here. I don't always fav or watch someone unless I see something that blows me away at the time. Sometimes I look back and wonder why I faved something, but I leave it there in case I remember.

Sorry for rambling. I'm not used to talking on boards.

Yeah, ahuh. Sure. Listen, you're gonna post a submission with a asskicker of a description, and then turn around and try to be the voice of reason to the people you just dissed? Fuck that.

Now, I'm not saying this isn't a good idea; I respect it like I do your art. It's admittedly, extremely good. But for fuck's sake, be less of a dick if you want people to listen to your suggestions. Personally, I'm into the smut as much as the next guy, but I know that's not what's gonna get me where I want to be artistically. I know I haven't show it in any meaningful way, but I am trying to move with some things that will make the fandom more than a kink dumping ground. I dunno if they'll come to fruition, but I'm trying. My point is, looking at how you're acting, if I hadn't already had this goal and hope and mind, I woulda just said "piss off". I'm wondering if there are some other people thinking the same thing.

I'm just writing it as it shows up in my head. If people have a problem with me being a dick, whatever. I honestly don't expect a single person to be changed in any way by this journal. If they are, booyah, but I sure as hell don't have big expectations

Then what's the point of putting it up here? Why would you shit away your time on something that wasn't gonna do anything?

You're asking an artist why they would spend their time expressing themselves?

Damn good points, all of them.

I also think that writing can be a bit less likely to be nothing but smut, though god knows there's plenty of written porn here.

I suppose to change things, furs need to start doing things that are more like (from what I've heard; I haven't read it) Heathen City... some real story and intrigue with the occasional nod to the furry love of sex.

Then again, I personally think it's getting better in lots of ways. I know there are a lot of other comparisons that go against this one, but for example, take a look at ASB vs. Circles. There's progress to be made.

*Applauds*

Arigatou, Gracias, Spaciba, Thank you.

welcome to the fandom of the "lowest common denominator"

draw what you like and others will feel free to do the same.

I like adult work, I've been drawing it for a long long time,
but to suggest that that is somehow a lesser form of "art"
or that its a waste of potential on any particular artist's
part would be tremendously shortsighted.

Art is visceral and open to many interpretations, as is that which
is one of the most basic human drives for guys and gals alike.

Sex!

It sells, its always interesting, its the begining of all life
on this planet (unless yer an organism which reproduces asexually
- how boring).

The fandom is not about sex though, its about anthropomorphic
animals - who's human counterparts are HUMAN - and like SEX !!

if you'd like to draw more high brow subjects - that the enourmous
ammount of T&A I see in your gallery - please feel free. I am sure you
as I, as any artists draws for themself, so - draw already.

- Fennec

I've spent just as much money, if not more, on clean and well-done art as the dirty dirty commissions. I guess the only difference is I'll spend hundreds on properly done custom framing and matting to hang the clean and inspiring pieces on my walls.

I agree and disagree with ya here.

I definitely agree that people should push the limits with their art, and really let their imagination run with it, since there's definitely a huge amount of creativity that's not yet been discovered.
There's very few artists around here (when considering how many people are on here) who work to inspire, provoke thought, philosophize or just create something original.
Instead there's loads of people around who're striving for popularity, working on porn because they know it's what the majority wants around here, or who're just here to get off.

However, i can understand why there is so much porn around, since to a lot of people (myself included), it's a means of release, where you can let go of your inhibitions through an idealized representation of yourself, without fear of rejection or jeering. Besides, as someone said in an earlier comment, it takes a lot of creativity to make some of this stuff look appealing.

There's also the matter of imagination. It's one thing to have an amazing idea for a drawing, but putting it on paper might be a completely different matter if you're not too confident in your skills.
I mean, one of the reasons my output of art is soooooo painfully slow is because the vast majority of my ideas are way beyond my abilities at the moment. Generic smut on the other hand, i think i could manage without too much trouble. For now i'm sticking with the harder ideas though, since i need to work at em to improve.

The kind of art you say there should be more of - I tend to like it best anyway. I like substance, though, feeling, etc. in art. Years ago I even left the furry fandom because of it. (I never *officially* came back - kemono therianthropy is just so much more interesting and seemingly more creative than furry anthropomorphism has been able to produce.) Finding art that speaks is the reason I'm here. :3

*substance, thought, feeling

Well now. I'm certainly glad to see that I'm not a minority in thinking that a ton of potential is lost in the sheer amount of extremely talented artists drawing nothing but pornography. The biggest disappointment for me tends to stem from the growing realization that artists that I used to truly admire and look up to begin to severly bore me over time, the initial admiration of the artists technical achievements begin to fade once realizing that they do is, at it's core, repeating the same idea over and over again. There's no contextual range whatsoever. I know that I'm not seeing the extent of the artists creativity, and I think that's a shame.

So many people with immense talent but not a thing to say.

But don't you think the bigger issue here, then, is mediocrity, not pornography?

I suppose you're right, but you can't blame me for making the easy association. I find it genuinely surprising to find anything non pornographic in my inbox, quality of the work aside. It's not the content I'm disappointed in, but the lack of creativity in a social group that should thrive on creativity. It explores a single aspect of life so vividly and pays far less attention to other great aspects of life. I like porn as much as the next guy, but I'd just like to see the artists out there to explore themselves and exercise their creativity a bit more.

It's what makes art fun.

"I suppose you're right, but you can't blame me for making the easy association."

Y...yes I can.

In fact I will do that.

For shame. FOR SHAME, AYATO.

"It's not the content I'm disappointed in, but the lack of creativity in a social group that should thrive on creativity."

Umm this is a pretty hard point to argue, outside of saying I disagree hella strongly and think the only excuse for not finding a LOT of creativity on FA is laziness.

And again, creativity, what we like, and what captures our imagination are all very subjective values. I just want to argue for the position that seeing a "lack of creativity" in the fandom isn't so much inherently the fandom's fault as just individual people in furry looking for different things. Not saying the fandom is perfect, oh my god am I EVER not saying that, but your perception plays a huge role in making judgments about supposed levels of creativity.

Hm, perhaps I was being unfairly subjective. I do feel as though a lot of people arent exercising their creativity as much as they could, but it's hardly like they have to to enjoy what they do. It is selfish to expect people to draw for the same reasons that I do.

That said, I think I'm just disappointed that I've drifted away from what appealed to me about this community in the first place.

You've been here for a while, so I can understand how things could have lost novelty for you. The best thing to do in instances of creative malaise is to ask yourself: what am I doing? Is it what I want to be doing? If not, what is it that I want?

The hard part is answering those questions, and then following through, even if the choices will be difficult, or unpopular.

Also, to be defined by your art means giving your creative muse a lot of power over you. Sometimes the answer when things get difficult like this is to step back and consider if maybe you've given it too much.

"window-lickingly retarded' I'm going to use that on someone tomorrow....

But I have to go with you on this, being a known furry in my community, I'm immediately plagued by the "OMG ITS PORN" label. It gets to be a bitch, especially when I'm NOT drawing porn. I draw a face and people instantly flip shit "HES DRAWING DOG-PORN!!!"

Maybe, if this community was a little less....like you said: focused on triple-Q tits and spunk gargling, we'd be a little more respected. Of course, everyone here is desperate for views/watches/favs, and porn gets it.

It'll never stop, but I really hope somebody gets your message, maybe we'll see some well drawn -not- porn....thought I doubt that....

I'm with you all the way on this. It is reassuring to see that there are other furs who are not stuck on adidas and are more oriented towards evolving the fandom as an art form. I dream of seeing anthropomorphic films that can rival the ingenuity and creativity of Hayao Miyazaki. The potential is there, it's just buried underneath a mountain of vulgarity.

Respect +50

Well, what exactly classifies as "art?" Art, to me, is anything intended to elicit certain feelings and emotions in people. Can't just try and drop something because the emotions it elicits aren't pretty. Just saying is all.

Im still a noobe to the art... but to me it would seem that every singe piece should be a push in every aspect from the Previous one.. porn or not..

is there to much porn.. yeah.. i think there is.. i would like to see more ROMANCE.. more family situations..

well.. idk.. im just trying to work on anatomy and color XD.. but i could at least help bu putting more out that is less porn based.

though, my next pick is porn based,, hell im in the middle of coloring as a gift to someone. cant change that now XD

Family situations..? Explain that please? XD

Father son moments

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/405207/

Pals being pals

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/109984/

Mates being just in love

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/103735/

Bithdays

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/895345/

Trubled friends

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1255352/

Getting into truble with friends

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1255404/

relashionship issues

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1440216/

New families

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/870777/

Natral disasters

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/870408/

Just chillen

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/831373/

<3 Good to know.

Furries don't have families, they respawn, like in WoW. Sex is just for the EXCITEMENT, the THRILL, because, with no condom usage, when's the last time you saw a male get a female pregnant on here?

I mean, I've seen a male get pregnant more often than I should've, but a female?