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11 years ago
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Journal Start
We are aware of growing concerns over an issue regarding one of the members of the Project Phoenix development crew, and we are currently working on a response to address those concerns. We will also be working with the community to help quell rumors, and answer questions regarding the current state of FA, as well as plans for future development.
It hears its own voice and speaks in agreement. It hears two voices now, and it speaks again, giddy. Like recognizes like, and there is joy. It shouts. It bellows. It screams. The voices grow, eagerness and agreement swelling until it seems that that heaven itself rings with their unified voice.
Soon
A thousand voices. A thousand thousand. A thousand thousand thousand. A cacophony of bellowing, no single voice intelligible now, every syllable a raindrop contributing to a mighty sea of noise. Those who stand before it, are crushed, their battle as futile as wrestling the ocean. It lives! It lives!
The echo chamber lives, and it is strong.
._.
But yeah yeah...I got really annoyed at all the journals and stuff o3o
Just yeah o3o that icon ♥
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This this this this this this.
I hope there is a good explination to get this whole thing back on track, I hope it's not true. /:
I'd rather just wipe my hands of this affair and have FA back to it's good ol self.... XD
What disturbs me the most is when users leave the site complaining about the issue and going on a rant about the issue, while simultaneously ignoring the reality of it for the sake of looking like they're somehow morally superior.
http://www.rainn.org/get-informatio.....eporting-rates
The low report rates coincide with the low conviction rates. So many people get away with it, that it scares individuals into to not wanting to go forward. Plus your average individual who isn't emotionally tied to the victim will generally ask for "proof" and believe that it didn't happen. This also scares victims into not reporting their crime.
Just food for thought!
You're very welcome! Have a nice night :]
I just find the censoring and silencing of people to be a little too extreme for my tastes, especially when they can be on top of this, yet art thieves get away with scamming money out of people with plagiarized works for months or longer with no actions taken against them.
Especially the second paragraph. I hadn't thought of things like that. personally I haven't had to report things but i know people who have and they get no response but then things like this are acted on within 20 hours or less.
All i wanted was a little logic. and i finally got it.
I give up .
Furry fandom is really as fucked up as outsiders say it is.
the fact you can't see why the whole situation is a problem is frankly terifying.
indeed, I just hope it passes on very soon
shhh shh o3o
Kids, don't log in to things on public wifi without HTTPS! Or, really, even with HTTPS...
the amount of misinformation with this is like 5th graders playing telephone >:(
I say this as a male who was raped, which I did not report or even tell anyone about. For shame.
( )
That said, I think everything after that has been handled poorly. People on both sides have pulled this into an out of control issue. People are saying those who don't leave or who want to avoid this are ignorant or malicious. those who don't care call it "silly" or drama. It's turned into a huge problem and dragoneer ignoring things, hiding it, and downright being dismissive about peoples' legitimate concerns are terrible. I personally don't know how I feel. I think Zaush is pretty shady, and his actions after the accusations were pretty damn telling of his character. I certainly don't like him being in such a delicate position...all I can say is I feel sorry for that girl that this was pulled to light, since she didn't want it to be and wanted to move on. But I'm glad the public on FA now can be more informed and make choices that they can morally agree with.
I understand it's easy to lose track with these jumbled comments, though ;)
THIS SO MUCH
It's really not o3o soooo the whole"I AM LEAVING BLA BLA BLA"
..okay you are aloud to join another site and tell what it is. But are you either party in the "news"? No...so....
just say the site info and leave the Zaush stuff out of it... some "Adults" here are more stressful then my high school days...
first of all, if you're worried about people seeing your private shit, especially if they are a proclaimed rapist, what the fuck do you care? You should already know FA's note privacy isn't that spectacular.
so don't be a moron and use FA to send personal information, except skype or IM services, because blocking exists for a reason. addresses or phone numbers are another thing, re-stating: don't be stupid.
his coding expertise is the only thing i really could give a shit about, but then again FA is a free-to-use site, so who fucking cares?
Shhh Shhhh it is not our business,
but as for the coding thing I can't wait to see what's gonna happen :D!!! I hope the site turns easier to use and well more appealing to the eye ♥
|;
My main thing is that they knew there was going to be concern and anger over this, and yet they did it anyways. I find that to be incredibly undiplomatic of someone that runs a major site.
peace out homies
this will probably blow over in like a month or two and people will come back as they normally do.
this comment. oh god, I choked on my water.
You made me spittake. Amazing.
"A supposed rapist, let's all leave FA.
But a convicted rapist on the dev team of Windows? Nah, I love my PC too much. "
http://ransomdracalis.tumblr.com/po.....-ashes-im-gone
Do you know what that product is?
That product is you. When a person buys adspace, they're purchasing exposure to the FA userbase in the hopes that that exposure will pay off in sales. The money for adspace goes back into the running of the site, which allows more adspace to be purchased.
You have a right to be treated respectfully as a vastly important part of why this site exists. Of course you don't have to care about those rights or choose to do anything about it. But you have rights.
People are too ignorant to know what's okay to do and what's not okay to do on the Internet. Let it be known that I am not a rape-supporter/enabler, but honest-to-fucking-god, this whole situation is not any of our goddamn business. (our being the furry population) it's a legal matter, not a furry one.
If a member of the Senate was revealed to have slept with a minor, would you vote for them again?
If the creator of a news website came forward admitting to cheating on his wife of 20 years, would your opinion of that news site change?
so I'll change it to a company I do care about
> I wouldn't give a shit, as long as the product still delivers and the company doesn't fuck me over, I essentially don't care as it's not directly affecting me.
apply that to all of your scenarios. As long as it's not directly affecting me or people I know, i do not care, because it's not my business.
the thing is personal life /
/ buisness
I'm just asking questions to gauge reactions. I've made up my mind of where I stand on the issue, but I won't say what it is.
It's just good to think sometimes about what's important in life.
1) No because Apple already do that with their low welfair towards the chineese that make their poorly built products
2) What member of the Senate has not slept with a minor?
3) People need to stop beleaving what the news says to begin with as it is all biased from the start of it being shown from the media.
how would you feel if the waiter at the coffee bar in senate was a rapist
how would you feel if one of the designers of the apple trash can robbed a bank
hes not an admin, he said it himself in his last journal
hopefully this helps
Also, I am glad users will report violations, regardless of the status of the violator. It allows us to know there is a problem to begin with, and take action.
If I actually had physical evidence against InkBunny, SoFurry, or Weasyl staff members, everyone would say I made it up, took stuff out of context, etc or just try and dismiss it to "He said she said" nonsense.
Meanwhile if I said I was fondled by a member of FA or dA's staff at a con neither of us attended, I'd probably be believed.
There's a serious concern regarding the accusation of a recently acquired staff member/collaborator with the site. I really think this deserves to be addressed.
Regardless of the friend/staff bias, though, I do hope the admins can come to some sort of [good] conclusion. I believe that the users of this site deserve [to a reasonable extent] to feel secure in the decisions made here, especially in regards to such a sensitive issue.
That's all.
The show is called "LazyTown".
Here's a link to the exact moment in the video: http://youtu.be/W173sLJivYU?t=17m35s
[Warning: it's all very bizarre]
best lazy town song ever
we should get together and make the most beautiful sound track ever.
The problem is, it WILL be addressed, but the drama llamas will move the goalposts. "LIES YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE HE'S A FRIEND LIES LIES LIES"
The community will react how they want, but if the actual concern in the issue at hand, people will know that screaming and whining about it won't do anyone much good.
If there's such a huge disagreement, users are free to have their opinion and leave, but, hopefully, peace will be restored, either way.
Although, I curious to know why the admins thought this was a good idea in the first place, knowing the previous history, but I digress.
My loving, caring, kind, generous, heartfelt mother...has a rap sheet that makes the accusations against a certain user seem small...so it all becomes objective.
The "victims" have remained silent on the matter, for 3 years...does that mean the drama has silenced them or that they've moved on?
But FA has survived worse drama than this. I have a feeling it'll all blow over on its own.
What differentiates all the other art sites from this site is the fact that other art sites make progress in how they're built. Updates to the code happen. User features are added. Stuff gets done. On FA, that doesn't happen. The most significant thing we've received in these long 5 years is advertisements being slapped all over the place, tags (LOL) and a rehashed old version (advertised as new) of the commission tab.
I just.... can't understand where you're coming from at all.
But honestly, that's a weak argument. How many of those staff that were barked at made up a majority of the coding staff? Sites like DA have multiples. And that's not to say that there isn't some scum on those websites, but at least they get shit done. This current member IS the coding staff. Like the sole person. Whom has failed time and time again.
This isn't even putting into play the controversy that surrounds the two folk in particular that I'm talking about. I'm sorry, but FA is a unique pile of shit that got pushed into the position of art site power it is now because it is considered the only and main furry HQ. Imagine if there were alternatives (like right now).
But hey, it doesn't really matter anyways. Afterall, Neer doesn't care: http://i.imgur.com/yRQZFTZ.png
Journal: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/...../#cid:38244612
I've been neutral on the whole subject; i just hope how they address will clear things up and hopefully get people to chill out -3-
The drama is people passing judgment without having the facts.
Or, better yet, people thinking they have to express a loud opinion on the matter when it doesn't concern them in the slightest.
(Not saying you're doing that - just making the distinction.)
So then I can laugh at all the furs who're bitching at people passing judgment on them without having the facts. >:)
However there is certainly a difference from purposefully/directly causing/influencing drama by some living factor that has control of its own self and by accident by something non-living and inanimate.
The only exception to this is plants which all strive for the same ideal, of which the non-living forces may act upon, thus causing drama for those living, and so forth.
No one likes drama, but what's the point to living without stimulations?
Seconded.
The fandom is not furaffinity.
You keep telling yourself that.
Banning users for speaking their piece only fans the flames of descent. It doesn't help that notes were leaked showing Dragoneer has covered peoples asses who were participating in illegal activities. Now it looks like hes doing the same for Zaush. The userbase are not at fault for this. He is. Honestly how did he expect us to respond?
ALOT of my favorite artists have "Left".
Admins removing posts/journals and suspending people because they want to hear the truth has a great deal to do with them personally.
and I would love to see your icon in real life. lol (sorry couldn't resist but say something about it)
I think If I were an admin- I would end up hiding some of the more slanderous comments and journals myself because no one knows the FULL story besides the 2 originally involved.
THEY ARE LEAVING BECAUSE THEY FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND UNSAFE AT FURAFFINITY because when people tried to voice their concerns they were banned and suspended, not slandering, but voicing the concerns of someone that POTENTIALLY could have committed these things. Whether he did or not is irrelevant. It's the fact it could be true, and how the admins/neer handled the situation.
So yeah, it does affect them.
And people that are flocking with the others, is because they saw the mistreatment of other community users because someone is childish and couldn't just flat out say, we're going to be dealing with the issue/finding a happy resolve.
I just wanted to say that because honestly "it's just drama" is pretty fucking annoying when it technically is something that affects the community as a whole, especially not handling the concerns of the people of said community.
If you don't know anything, cool, awesome, go about your day, but don't try and get involved by saying "OH LUL TEH DRAMAZ."
Just because it doesn't happen to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't happen to anyone else.
The stuff that happened caused a ripple effect, it hit some people, and people involved with those people, so they made their own decisions.
It shouldn't matter anyway. It's THEIR decision. No reason to complain/hate on someone for their choices.
If you stay, awesome, if you go, awesome. This goes both ways~!
Don't be a dick just because someone's not doing the same thing as you :D just move along!
My opinion doesn't mean i will rally, no offense.
though if you do get your signatures, i hope neer is decent enough to listen to what you're asking.
I say this because of this part in your petition "whether he has or has not done what he is accused of is for the law to decide. We feel that it is unfortunate, one way or another, that the events involving him have unfolded the way they have, and that justice will likely never be meted out in any case.
However, regardless of that, FurAffinity is a service-based community website that connects hundreds of thousands of users. As users of that site, we feel that the controversy surrounding Mr. Wan cannot be ignored, and that it is inappropriate to place a person so accused into a position of power." -which to me basically says "we're not sure if it's true or not, but rumors are powerful and he should be removed from FA's list regardless of the truth"
-Don't get me wrong, if the accusations are true, I certainly don't think he should be in power, and if they happened on FA then he should be permanently banned. But if he's innocent? Then proof and explanations are required and he can keep his position.
however, granted ferality's notes (which were not supposed to be public, she didn't publicly say that zaush is a rapist) portray she did not want sex willingly, and the twitter posts by zaush made recently saying something like "don't stick your dick in crazy" (I'm not gonna go search for exact quotes, the post made me ill), I'd say that some sort of sex did happen, and I'm not one of those asses to go with the "are you sure you didn't want it and change your mind afterword?" route.
It's proof enough for me
Do you know if they met up in real life? Or this happened through FA notes?
I actually forgot about Dr. Phil for these past couple of days XDDDD!
And most of them may not even understand what the internet is like, like the older generations, still in the dark,
Going to Hear about all this drama, and already as it is, a lot of people THINK furries are to accepting! And without having the knowledge we have, knowing that Not everything is true what you hear and read on the internet is going to believe this....
It's not what goes on in the community that bothers me, it's how it reacts to such extremes, causing a large eruption of chaos, bright enough to bring the looking eyes into our 'subculture/fandom' we have worked good and hard to keep going well.... And if it hits the right time, at the right moment, We all could be labeled as something that we'll regret. I know we already have a pretty pathetic image as it is... And a lot of us are working for the good, running for causes, fursuiting for donations and fun events, doing that...
But what is there to be when the base of the fandom itself, when we get right down to it, is rotten... and we collapse on our self... right there... for everyone to watch, for our mother, for our grandparent, or even that cool boss... We will be imaged as this, and just this.
No one can keep to themselves anymore, everyone has to shove (Forgive me for this figure of speech) But Dicks, down our throats, like we have no other option but there way or we won't be right until we see it there way because the ignorance and selfishness is ripping ourselves apart...
Everyone is so blind and numb in the skull because they don't want to realize that WE as a new and up coming thing, just another community, just like any other, are putting the wrong example, that it's causing entertainment and just not a good Documentary, for these things people can learn from...
We are equivalent to a jester, being. Being the fool and being ridiculous with our own 'thoughts' that its so immature, that it's dumb and marked as a Dark Entertainment we are giving TO the media who finds easy money through this way.
Our fandom can be so selfish, not weighing the facts that maybe Yes! Just maybe someone that at the time was so angry, so much an ass hole something was said because it was their only selfish way out of the way to get past and look good for someone else's eyes...
It's not about us anymore... We all want attention so badly, that it's hurting us. We're selfish, we want the wrong spot light on people.
And others, are just spitting what they want because of their own anger, their own accepting choices, that we also have became a bitter community.
I am sorry I went on about this, but it's been seriously on my nervs that the one thing I look for, the positive, is being torn down by something so big, and so bright, that I get distracted... I can usually brush off a lot of stuff, but with everything right now, it's sad that even how your own friends are turning on you in the community because you simply just don't care about either side, and just want the calmness and real focus of what the website was made for...
It's seriously has became a Spot light thing. So many people want it... So many people want to be heard... they do it in the wrong way...
We are human though, we are built for disaster unless people really buckle down and find real problems instead of ones that make them selfish..
They can do the 'right thing' and possibly, slowly attempt to turn things around.
Or just make this much, much worse.
The problem lies in the time delay between when the drama broke out, and the response being written. Some folks have already abandoned ship entirely...the response may never be seen by them. Others are still floating between here and another place, and thus stands a greater chance of being noticed.
Likely never quite the same, but yeah, even small attempts is trying. 8/
Drama drama drama rabble rabble rabble
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Essentially.
Complains about drama causing drama
Attempts to come up with a solution for drama causing drama
Cries and goes to bed
Did I sum up a reply to this well?
x_x
So much worse than the win $1111 journals as same people KEEP ON POSTING about leaving FA and reminders of them leaving over and over
definitely not for attention
Those that have fucks to give will follow, those that don't.. I wouldnt feel a need to add a cash incentive XD
hmm
I'm SICK of hearing about it
Instead anyoen who speaks of it was suspended for even bringing it up. And that is pretty shitty manageent of a site, isn't it?
how dare users mention something that actually happened it MUST be labelled as staff harassment.
not to mention the other problems that have been had on this site? it just all piles up into being really gross imo.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I couldnt agree more
It's really all just giving me a massive headache
regardless less drama mongers for a lil while.
hundred
So, yeah, from what I've seen, they were banning people who were not harassing anyone
And yes they are trying to. The only thing that could make this uproar stop is for them to get rid of the alleged (or un-alleged which ever) rapist, and to remove Dragoneer from admin status.
But yet, it is dumb, and now, almost a week later they're finally saying "We're working on it!"
I seriously hope they unban everyone they've banned.
And now that a bunch of people are leaving, they've decided they're going to "do something about it"
The banning of people was severely uncalled for on Dragoneers and the rest of the admins part.
Fine they can leave...doesn't change the fact that its his website.
Its his site, if he wants people banned for something, its his choice. His house his rules (unless they actually break laws then..well the action to take then is obvious). Just because you say open your house to the poor doesn't mean you'll let them urinate on your TV does it. Its his property that he lets us use, there are alternatives and you can use them. Having a malicious go at someone about how they do things makes them defensive, which is what most critics of the site do, if you can't offer constructive feedback with some credible suggestions then you aren't doing anything to actually help. Creative people like proper criticism, but because things didn't change the day people made those professional criticisms forgetting that these things take time, they went absolutely crazy and started a "I hate FA" campaign because it makes them "feel" better, even though if FA just went away people would be upset at all the people they didn't get to find on other sites. I'm following 1297 users on FA right now, and only 500 or under on other sites like it...that's a lot of artists I don;t get to follow. BUT I agree that the banning in some cases was uncalled for...but they're going by personal judgement here which is exactly what any "professional" would use...so this kind of breaking of a rather loosely interpreted ToS...is bound to happen.
Would have been nice maybe before this all blew up.
That was not even 3 weeks ago when all that happened. So much for transparency and learning from your mistakes.
Let's go make a handsome man site instead. XD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuZxn0aT_UQ
(also, omg...that new fender journal is so laughable. Nothing changes)
This fandom makes me laugh so hard, I almost shed a tear from the sheer about of assmad people can generate.
Because people are moving the goalposts. They have their minds already made up. "This IS what happened, and NOTHING YOU SAY will take me down from defending my NOBLE CAUSE, and if you do, you're an APOLOGIST".
All the admins can do is ban the loudest people that cry out in open revolt and take down anyone openly taking their side until the loud ones are all stamped out of existence from FA. That's the closest thing to "handling" it that FA will be able to muster, as absolutistic as that may sound to anyone. There isn't a way to fix this in any positive action.
The leg's been messily amputated. Gangrene's set in further up. It can't treated, it can only get sawed off a little more with the hope to butt the wound off proper next time properly.
I don't know if that'll help to be honest. I'm sure someone else will take their place in no time.
Prevention is better than cure. If only they caught this in time. Surly they thought this might of happened.
But I think this will be a situation that may not be easily manageable without some form of an apology or(/and most likely) some suitable action taken to, well, really just make us feel like the Staff/Admins care or are even listening. A prime time to have acted would have been day 1 or day 2 being the latest for damage control as well as controlling the fire a bit more. But letting it linger, and banning people has only serve to be the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a fire.
I'm hoping they can pull this off, change things. Fix things, whatever has to happen. I just wish they would have started trying to work this out instead of banning people (the unreasonable ones, or the "shit" throwers, okay. I could understand (mostly of) those. But the ones in the dark, just trying to figure out why their favorite artists were leaving? That didn't win them many likes.)
Anyway, heres to hoping. c:
(i think you're trying too hard to appease the administration with your post)
the real injustice is the hypocrasy behind it all. we train FA users to react this way
by banning people for the same thing x is guilty of, which is really just being accused.
i'm not going off hear-say or dropped docs, because i don't believe stuff i read on
the internet, i get to know a person and judge them on the content of their character
a fundamental that is completely lost in the fandom.
no amount of apology can repair the damage that has been done here.
you're saying they need to work this out, but it was ok for them to ban the " unreasonable shit throwers "
which those shit throwing monkeys are the same monkeys they trained to throw shit
at people like x, the major difference here being in the past they have chosen the target.
we can both agree this needs to be a discussion, this needs to be worked out,
but we need to start at the ground floor. which would mean, to universally unban EVERYONE from
the site, the furry fandom welcomes all, so should a site that represents it.
when i say EVERYONE i mean EVERYONE.
I said, and quote "I could understand" them, not that I did, or that I agreed. Simply that at least they had grounds for it, rather than having no grounds at all for banning just simply curious people.
I do agree, they need to fix this, they need to start over. whether everyone gives them that chance, who knows - but again, here's to hoping.
From what I've seen, said team member said they knew a coding system(well) the new thing was made on. Then was seen on Twitter asking for people to help him in said coding system.
I'm not impressed. It make me lose faith in the project.
I couldn't give a shit about the other thing.
However, if you know nothing about even the basics of a popular language like JavaScript or PHP (using Node.js as an example isn't fair since it's largely used with far larger-scale deployments than this), then there's something seriously wrong.
Then on twitter say hes just starting to learn.
That's why my faith is just lost.
What else is he just starting to learn?
i know he didnt claim to know everything, but to say he was proficient in it, then to say hes new. ya know...
ill believe it when it happens.
Also, before the slew of text-wall replies, I know about the situation, I just don't care. Deal with it.
Furries and their drama, gotta love how they make a mountain out of a molehill *shrugs it off and goes back to my drama-less corner of the world*
slander is slander, and i dont stick up for anyone but yeah. words are just words to me
If there is no guilty verdict, then I can't just assume that this was an unreported crime, otherwise anyone could make up any accusation they liked and just say it was never reported, then there'd be no way of telling apart the true accusations from the false ones.
I can barely begin to imagine what it's like to be a victim of sexual violence, I know I can't fully put myself in that position, and I am sorry for anyone who has been in that position. But without sufficient evidence, I can't in good faith accuse someone of a crime I didn't witness, particularly one of this severity.
Statistics call you a liar, friend.
I'm not saying rape being the least reported felony is false, I'm saying that given the agenda at play here, you make youself lose credibility. Maybe if you toned down spamming that petition everywhere. :P
Again, if you read my other comments instead of writing me off as someone who doesn't care about victims of rape like a lot of people pushing for Wan's firing and shunning from anything to do with the fandom ever (neither of which will actually do anything to rectify the situation as the damage has already been done, which is something the majority of people on the other end of this conveniently glossed over. It's a PR nightmare and those aren't solved as easily as removing the offending thing, whether it be a staffer or otherwise, see the Xbox One debacle.), I'm trying to be reasonable. Of course the crime, alleged or not is of importance, but so is his relative lack of experience regarding what he set out to use for the rewrite, and so is the eternal FA nepotism issue. The rape is not the only issue with hiring on Wan.
At the same time, we've been promised updates for so long now that most stopped caring who did the rewriting, as long as it actually got done. Using the rape case is counterproductive to what the vast majority of FA users wanted when this was announced: a modern, functional FA frontend.
I'm well aware that false claims are rare, but claims are also not acted on, and that's a serious problem. What we have going is a sort of "lie unless proven otherwise" mentality, which is silly, and does nothing to address the actions and grievances of either party. This doesn't just hold true for sexual offenses either, although they are the est examples, but for many other categories of crime, including financial fraud and police brutality (Kelly Thomas' killing by LAPD being a good example of the latter, people only found out because of live recorded video which nobody with the power to do anything believes is real).
What I'm getting at here is that using statistics to further an agenda makes it painfully obvious that you have other reasons for wanting Wan removed that you aren't telling us--happens all the time in politics, and it's why people refuse to swallow spying under the guise of protecting children or stopping those darn terrorists, because neither have proven to actually work as reasoning, and the real reason for it is often very different. Calling into question Wan's experience as a coder and Neer's penchant for nepotism is fair game as is the rape allegations (though the legitimacy of leaks can be questioned, they can be proved correct, in which case I would be more for hiring someone more competent to do the job anyway, much like I am now).
So yes, remove Wan and his inflated ego, because I do care about all things being said, having had several high-profile rape cases hit close to home here in eastern Ontario, but for God's sake, stop assuming that someone who may have a counter argument doesn't care about the situation, because it's false.
Again, if you read my other comments instead of writing me off as someone who doesn't care about victims of rape like a lot of people pushing for Wan's firing and shunning from anything to do with the fandom ever (neither of which will actually do anything to rectify the situation as the damage has already been done, which is something the majority of people on the other end of this conveniently glossed over. It's a PR nightmare and those aren't solved as easily as removing the offending thing, whether it be a staffer or otherwise, see the Xbox One debacle.), I'm trying to be reasonable. Of course the crime, alleged or not is of importance, but so is his relative lack of experience regarding what he set out to use for the rewrite, and so is the eternal FA nepotism issue. The rape is not the only issue with hiring on Wan.
At the same time, we've been promised updates for so long now that most stopped caring who did the rewriting, as long as it actually got done. Using the rape case is counterproductive to what the vast majority of FA users wanted when this was announced: a modern, functional FA frontend.
I'm well aware that false claims are rare, but claims are also not acted on, and that's a serious problem. What we have going is a sort of "lie unless proven otherwise" mentality, which is silly, and does nothing to address the actions and grievances of either party. This doesn't just hold true for sexual offenses either, although they are the est examples, but for many other categories of crime, including financial fraud and police brutality (Kelly Thomas' killing by LAPD being a good example of the latter, people only found out because of live recorded video which nobody with the power to do anything believes is real).
What I'm getting at here is that using statistics to further an agenda makes it painfully obvious that you have other reasons for wanting Wan removed that you aren't telling us--happens all the time in politics, and it's why people refuse to swallow spying under the guise of protecting children or stopping those darn terrorists, because neither have proven to actually work as reasoning, and the real reason for it is often very different. Calling into question Wan's experience as a coder and Neer's penchant for nepotism is fair game as is the rape allegations (though the legitimacy of leaks can be questioned, they can be proved correct, in which case I would be more for hiring someone more competent to do the job anyway, much like I am now).
So yes, remove Wan and his inflated ego, because I do care about all things being said, having had several high-profile rape cases hit close to home here in eastern Ontario, but for God's sake, stop assuming that someone who may have a counter argument doesn't care about the situation, because it's false.
Worthy of note is that I do trust the Guardian given their reporting of the NSA scandal, but I don't think it's fair to assume anyone not up in arms over the situation to an alarming extent is apologising for Wan's actions.
Right now, there is a claim. And you and I have no evidence to know whether the claim is true or not. Should we agree with an accusation just in case it is true? I'd rather withhold an accusation and be wrong than judge someone innocent and be wrong.
Like I said, I am not trying to fight, just putting some other points to light if you wanted to take them into account <3
I guess what we are both trying to say is legality isn't always up to stock. I'm sorry that happened to your momma though Haru.
Personally, I think the whole mess can be sorted by the people that are at the heart of the matter getting together and just talking, its even been tested, victims have talked to the criminals and have said they feel better. Though I doubt that can happen. I've got a nervous personality offline and when people defend me in a loud manner...I accept defeat because I don't feel comfortable with it. That's just a nervous personality what happens to those that go through something traumatic? Your sister's claims are based around her suppressing it because of how it made her feel...all this attacking the criminal in actuality puts pressure on the victim.
So yeah legality is a problem, not because of the system but because the people that make the decisions are just that people. And people make mistakes, intentional or not...its best to offer gentle support for the right course of action rather than taking a side in something hat could have been either side. I suffer from depression, and every time people try to "help" they just make me angry and upset, but when they do nothing that makes me feel worthless and pathetic...best stance is be willing to offer support when it is needed, regardless of who needs it. Zaush, regardless of any points made about him, is a human being, he can get just as hurt, upset and angry as the rest of us. I think people have forgotten that a little too easily.
The person 'becoming a better person' does not change the damage they had done. None the less, Zaush doesn't even seem sorry for what he allegedly did, and if he did indeed do it and he is not sorry and people are placing the blame on her... well let me tell you that that will often make the victim end their lives.
We should stop talking about this. You have personal reasons for your opinions and I have a very personal and now dead reason why i feel the way I feel about it.
I'm sorry that I've bothered you.
But I'll respect your wishes as you clearly feel you have a personal stake in this. Also you weren't a bother, I found you a delight to talk to.
http://i.imgur.com/NkcDTo2.jpg
Just feel like this will not even help since cat's out of the bag and it's throwing a fit in the room.
Everyone who cares has gone on their week long vaca- er... abandonment of FA
Go make me a sandwich.
Some people have been signing with initials and I'm sure there are some pseudonyms in the signatures as well, and according to Change.org's FAQ regarding addresses: "Petitions that get sent to U.S. federal elected officials (the President, U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives) will include your address. This is simply to confirm that you are one of their constituents. Your address is never made public." And as the person running the petition, I can assure you that all even I see is the state that signatures are made from. You're perfectly safe in lending your voice to this movement.
However, it is a dark mark on the community that you are afraid of personal retribution for speaking your disapproval, and I would encourage you that this is even more reason to support the effort. If you are unable to sign the petition, please consider spreading the word so that others can help.
Thank you for your interest.
Forever!
Forever!
....Forever...
Oh-no...
NOOOOOOOOOOOO........!!!!
WHEEEEEEEEATON....!!!!!!!! D:
SERIOUS
"well, she /did/ drive to the park, to be fair! She should have seen the murder coming from miles away!"
I think everybody needs a bit of love D:
Love seems to be lacking around here lately :c
People have already left, others have been (temp) suspended, comments hidden...
What's to say at this point? Whether what happened in the past happened or not, it's way late to. People have already drawn their own conclusion, based on what (little) was known. This should have been done as soon as word got out.
It should have been dealt with the day of. Not like a week after when ALL the drama and good artists are leaving the site because nothing is getting done.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12541494/
Good. Luck.
to delete BAW journals about leaving
http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....=1#post4358527
I rather trust into the person who actually owns the site...
"I rather trust into the person who actually owns the site... "
That's exactly why all of this is happening. So many people have been leaving the site because they DON'T trust the guy who owns the site.
Fuck's sake, might as well trust the safety of your kids to a violently hungry wild bear. Shit is not going to end well because the bumbling faggot can't even get his FINANCES right.
"the only person who could rewrite FA properly"
>>Implying that said person is ANY good at coding (Spoiler that I learned this week: THEY AREN'T. THEY ARE AN AWFUL CODER AND OTHER CODERS HATE WORKING WITH THEM.). DOZENS of much, much better coders have offered 'Neer their services FOR FREE. The only reason they picked the person in question really seems to be that they're buddies.
And tbh at this point, it doesn't matter if what they were accused of did or did not actually happen, as far as the re-writing of FA goes (well, it does, but going into THAT will take all day), said person has SUCH a bad PR rep that they are just not worth having on the team anymore.
It is understandable that there's no trust in a compeltely foreign person.. not to mention that there's no money to pay a worker to do that...
"It is understandable that there's no trust in a compeltely foreign person.."
What.
You know sadly enough, this kind of bad decision DOES seem to fall in line with other decisions that have been made in the past.
+1 Again.
No, I meant it is like it is that Zaush was chosen for trust reasons mostly...
If dragoneer would have asked for "who wants to code on FA?" he'd probably got a quantilion of responses.. how to chose there?.. :/ So it's logical someone already known was chosen...
That's not a professional way to run a site because it means the best people for the job get looked over and 'Neer doesn't want to spoil friendships by saying 'No' or 'your fired!'.
Dragoneer has asked that question; 'Who wants to code on FA?' several times on the previous abortive updates for this site. People have offered their skills for free. People who know how to code. But they get chased off by the volitile internal politics of this site's staff.
Finally there is no issue about employing foreigners to help code. Nor has 'Neer refused help based on someone's nationality to best of my knowledge.
I'm sorry, but trust aside, hiring on Zaush was a fucking PR nightmare, that's all this was.
Someone better could have EASILY been picked.
Jesus christ.
Sorry, I should word myself more clear.
Zaush is far from the only one who could help.
'Neer hired on his buddy and didn't give a damn about the backlash.
I didn't see the "far" in that sentence. >_<
I highly doubt he can rewrite it properly, when it was said to someone who wanted to help on the team (who knew the coding being used), he said to that person that he KNEW it. Lied blatantly.
Like really, he's learning on the spot with the project. I have no faith in Project Pheonix.
They dun goofed with their choice of coder, and should've maybe gone for someone who is not a friend of theirs who will lie to get a job.
lmao get over yourself
and just how are they doing that, exactly????
what does this have to do with tumblr????
I'm just kind of baffled that you're so quick to jump to the conclusion of OH NO THE SOCIAL JUSTICE WARIOS ARE ATTACKING THE FURRIES just because of two completely isolated incidents. It's a little silly. Like, "tin foil hat" levels of silly.
Won't go in depth on it, but I kinda feel the MRA movement is redundant at best when you remove the faction that is trying to swing the pendulum backward in response to inaccurate perceptions of our culture. :V
I've noticed how batshit insane the fandom has become with quickly pulling the triggers to things, making it mundane and belittling them.
"RAPIST!"
"CULTURAL APPROPRIATION"
Calling attention to someone's shitty behavior is exactly that. The fact that people want to dismiss it as "being an tumblr social justice warrior" only serves to prove that they'd much rather piss and moan about being "attacked" instead of looking inward and realizing that, hey, MAYBE PEOPLE ARE GETTING ANGRY FOR A REASON
Granted, there are people who choose to appropriate the word "trigger" into meaning "something that annoys me or makes me angry", but those people are very few and far between, once you actually stop lumping everyone into the same category.
BUT FurAffinity isn't exactly a shining paragon of humanity so I probably be better off shouting into a dirty toilet than have enough optimism to expect most people here to listen
I'm not going to get too involved with what's going on here, just browsing and making light of things where I can.
everyone should be held to the same level and not based on how they were born.
thats my point.
everyone is taking being PC way too far,
they are bad.
but when eating food from another culture, wearing a sash, a kimono given to you by someone of japan etc is cultural appropriation its too far.
the same for rape.
like really, eye rape is apparently a thing now.
THATS what i mean. being way too PC.
it's not about other people "being too PC" (which is ANOTHER mode of thinking that's a load of bullshit), it's that YOU would rather do and say whatever the hell you want to without consequence instead of meeting the most basic, minimum requirements of human fucking decency.
appropriating aspects of a culture without full understanding of that culture is bad. it's insulting and strips an entire culture down to an object, something that "makes you look cool".
and yes RAPE. IS BAD. that's not a matter of political fucking correctness, that is a matter of common god damn sense. the fact that I even have to SAY "rape is bad" and have people on here STILL try to fucking argue with me is a reflection of how monumentally disgusting the collective mentality is on this.
It is not Zaush that is causing people to flee from FA. It is the DRAMA.
FA staff says they're going to address it, and rather than people being content to let that be that, people come on here with a flood of comments INSISTING that we need EVEN MORE DRAMA.
Should we just roll over and die? NO.
But SJWs are there more for the drama, and the screeching (they are a minority, remember that) and eventually they'll find something else to occupy their time, they always do.
QUICK, PEOPLE, HEADS IN THE SAND.
No one cares about them except you, your just fueling the fire for drama.
No.
Bobby stop.
As for everyone else, I am just here to watch this play out.
*sighs* Oh people people... learn logic and understanding facts please! xD
That was fantastic.
Why did you not call the police then? D: You did a crime too!!!!
Lol...
Seriously, just forget it.. Your comments are actually funny, else you were already blocked xP
Back to topic. There was no evidence and in EVRY CASE it is not your duty to judge now.. Anyways, good evening.
weasyl is better
period
end of story
Hey man, all the whiners can go, I dont care much. my list of people I watch has dropped from 118 to 88 today. AINT NO THANG.
more people need to be chill
and I dont have a preference for any one site, only a preference for user base.
You'll be dead in 10 minutes, yes, but, look on the bright side; you won't have to deal with that sort of unapologetic stupidity anymore!
Bonus: One shot "in a week", two shot "in a month", and so on.
Or "I don't see what the big deal is"
Or "You're overreacting"
etc
Actually, you know what? Forget making a game out of it... just pour alcohol straight into your face until you forget FA even exists.
i cant tell if its from laughter from this chain of comments or horror at the other comments on this page
Readyyyyy aaaaaaaannnnndddddd go
i need to stop now
[11:12:49 PM] Mix: at that point you down an entire bottle of everclear and call it a night
But as we know.. stupid people will always continue complain...
WIN!!
Lmaaoo, totally didnt mean for it to be a pun; its something my friends and I say all the time x'D We praise the deer lord
*puts hands up to make antlers* PRAISE THE DEER LORD.
want some?
now we just need pizza =D
*jumps from couch and answers door*
Me: I did!!!
YOU WIN EVERYTHING!
Nice try .
you really have no proof of such person being such thing.
Unless you give me full proof, i will not sign, because its stupid.
That said, if ultimately it is not your desire to sign the petition, I apologize for bothering you. As mentioned below, it is not my intent to badger users for their support.
youa re doing it if you are replying to mostly all the comments to get them to sighn it.
It must have been huge to make you guys actually think about doing something besides hiding everyone's comments on the issue.
Get out of here, Hank Hill! :P
This is gonna be a good one heh heh
fuck you
I have been here since 2007, and trust me, FA is -still- the most popular furry art website online, and this is by far not the worst incident to have occurred here.
http://cdn5.movieclips.com/disney/t.....8_MC_Tx360.jpg
When asked for clarification, Dragoneer said "Suck it!" and did those little crotch chops Triple H used to do like 15 years ago in the WWF.
I've commissioned it from
Regardless, I'm eager to see how this all pans out.
After Mass Exodus: "We take this seriously and are working on a response to the community's totally legitimate concerns."
(Yes, I'm plugging myself shamelessly at you. ;p )
my thoughts: Your leaving? ill see you here again in a few days.
FA is stickier than glue. CANT LEEAAVVEEE. xD
whispers absolutely nothing but sweep it under the rug
I, however, know what its like to be the victim. I was raped twice. Both times I didn't report it due to the same culture that happens here in this journal- defending zaush, instead of defending the victim. I find that to be in ill taste.
Fuck his feelings and fuck you for defending the fucker. Maybe if he saved from babies from a fire instead of sticking his dick in a person who otherwise wouldn't have touched it with a 20 foot pole we might care a little more about him and his feeling and whether or not he drops fucking dead tomorrow.
You're just as terrible a person for defending him and you should feel bad.
My best friend went through similar allegations that were false, but it didn't change the fact that he lost his job, lost his girlfriend, and was harassed constantly by strangers over it, one of which I gave a fucking black eye to. Think before you act like a complete and total dumbass and one of the mindless masses, else you're like one of those tools who think everything in life is white or black, that there is no grey area. And trust me, life is one gigantic fucking grey area.
That's kinda the hinging point here. A fairly important detail that has been covered many times in this discussion.
Less we also cover the fact that while he's also a terrible person and we don't care for him; he's also a shit coder. Why would you Want to hire him?
Though this is same place that gives Mod/admin power over the forums to a dog fucker. I just don't think FA cares.
The leaked notes from a while ago were pretty well forgotten about and only brought back up because of him getting put on staff.
Theres enough proof that points to him at the very least being a sexual predator. I mean hell, if Dragoneers girlfriend knew who he was referencing when he told her about the notes when he didn't even mention a name, you know theres an issue there. Plus, why would someone ask advice privately from said sexual predators friend if they were making up a story to ruin him? That seems pretty stupid.
This could have all been avoided if they put someone reputable in that position. Hell, Zaush could have very well said NO because we all damn well knew this was going to happen. He obviously doesn't care.
And that is unacceptable.
The end.
i hope this site dies and project phoenix fails to make it rise from the ashes
after like 3 days
because they dumb
Ugh.
I go to other sites and they're all about it there too. x.x
I just want to draw and have fun with y'all, not watch everyone behead one another.
<3
I only log on to get information on artists that are just now moving over and to laugh at this site.
Ahh the naive hasn't been paying attention to who does what kinda person. His actions have been hurting the site since 2005 and the fandom since before then.
We are far too apathetic here in the furry community, and when a wrong is committed we just roll our eyes and cynically let it happen. So many of the comments on this very journal read to the effect of, "eventually this will all blow over." But it will be another stain on our reputation.
This petition will stand as a testament that some of us tried to stand for what was right, and tried to hold our community to a higher standard. Perhaps other, more reasonable and upright administrations will see the petition and take it more seriously. And perhaps the next time something like this happens, more people will be willing to take a stand because we've proven it's possible to have a voice for a better community.
I hope that you decide despite the discouraging fact of Dragoneer's indifference to lend your support to the petition, if for no other reason than that it is the right thing to do.
As for the "stain" on our reputations I just have to ask. Do you even know where you are right now or what you are a part of. Lot of people see furs as a bunch of sex crazed social outcasts because guess what? Most of them are go figure! You can't just remove a single stain on the sheets that is the fandoms reputation the whole thing is drenched in seamen and blood and food stains and shit and piss and reeks of rot. If you one of those people who thinks the fandom cause be seen positively by society you are even more deliousal than I thought and I wish you luck with your issues.
Neither I, nor anyone else, is delusional for thinking that our subculture can be held to a higher standard and be a positive community. I can walk into game night and they know that I'm a furry and that's okay, because furries are, by and large, normal people.
I do believe that furries can and will one day outgrow our negative reputation, but whether that's a decades-long battle or simply a slow, patient climb will depend on the actions of the community and our efforts to rise above that awful reputation instead of wallow in it as though there's nothing we can do. We can, and must, do something.
but hey, what do i know.
And I speak the truth!
When people need attention geez, if it was positive there would not be a uproar -.-
Just like killing Brian from family guy ...sigh ppl these days
Plus the dude has already left the site, he just wants to enforce his beliefs on the admins/owner/ new coder of FA. If he cared he would be doing something more helpful.
And people commenting or faving stuff while their account is disabled is a totally a let down. D: Some times you'll be like "Oh I like this avatar or which to talk with this person in PMs or whatever" and then you check their page only to get a huge let down. It can be compared with getting a beautifully wrapped present only to open to find nothing but packaging peanuts and nothing else inside. D: ( Or that kid getting that new game system but the box was empty )
Gosh with all this complaining about how terrible Fa is there sure are a lot of people here still.
Even the ones Who say it's a terrible place, even the ones who are being Cold.
People really do like being nosy on this site, that sure is unfortunate, sorry FA staff for all this nonsense. Seriously.
I'm sure half the people who left will come back. Though personally I don't know if I'd want em to! Gotta love intrusive folks.
Not too long ago we had the whole issue with Horror (Twitch lead admin), and now this.
I mean really people, it doesn't concern us, so stop white-knighting -.-
Personally I take no sides with either the Horror issue nor this one as neither directly concern me.
For the most part, it usually ends up that the staff goes into ostrich defense mode (That is, duck heads in sand and wait for the storm to pass), but this is certainly a unique and interesting time here!
You have to set a professional standard for yourself if you want people to stop thinking of you so poorly, ’Neer -- so run this site like a damn professional.
I was going to say something, but this sums it up.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And since Dragoneer FORGOT he already had a volunteer team working on a recode of FurAffinity when he hired [redacted], I also think it's perfectly fair for Dragoneer to AT LEAST ADMIT HE NEEDS HELP running FurAffinity, and start looking for a co-owner to scrutinize some of his ideas for brain-DERPs.
As far as the temp suspensions go: I'd nominally agree, though I believe the people who made those comments brought it upon themselves by ostensibly breaking FA's rules.
I don't think FA needs a "co-owner", but I do think Dragoneer would do well to stop shutting out his critics.
Think logically, not out of your ass.
Most cases dealing with rape are a "he said/she said" situation because they are often the only two involved as there generally aren't witnesses. 40% of rapes are reported, a fourth of those reports lead to arrests. Of those ten that are arrests, eight are charged, four are convicted, and one of those four will have the sentence overturned. Thus, only three percent of rapists spend even a single day in jail.
Rape is the most under-reported violent crime of all. It is also the one that is hardest to prove because it is so hard to find evidence of rape.
"I tried to clarify that, but I doubt it will matter at this point. When I told Sciggles of this, I left out names... and she mentioned that Zaush tried to do something like this to even her. But she mentioned when she said no, despite him keeping asking and insisting, he backed off.
So I can't verify it on every instance, but I didn't agree with Zaush and the accusations concerned me. I just didn't want her getting burned."
https://forums.vivisector.org/index.....sg4109#msg4109
That never happened. Please stop spreading that rumor.
I'm concerned that a number of other things that have been said lately and screencapped will also be written off as "never happened caps can be faked these are just rumors" though.
Unless you're using the royal "you" and referring to everyone and not just me, to that I suggest trying to word things differently to avoid any further confusion.
I guess try and imagine something like this happening to you :T its frustrating and I honestly don't know what to do about it if what I say regarding the rumor wont be taken seriously.
So you're assuming I believe the rumor, much like your chastising everyone who is believing it based on assumptions?
Can anyone else here smell the irony or is that me?
Except the statistical evidence. Whoops.
Project Phoenix will be right around the corner!
I'm not sure where the main source of info has disappeared.
I'm cool with anyone that wants to fill me in (via note preferably), but just from what I've gathered in the forums and comments here, all I can say is I'm cool with there being more space on FA.
If people need to make a journal to express their concerns before leaving them by all means good on them. Probably just means less B.S I gotta deal with seein' in the future.
I wrote this to try and have something for folks to read to get caught up on what was going on.
What you do when admining a site, you address the issues IMMEDIATELY.
The fact that it took THIS long to address this is ridiculous and unproffessional. You have lost a TON of users of the site not only because of the week outage and this issue.
Ya'll needa get your shit together.
I mean, do you stop going to eat at Burger King because one of the guys working in the backoffice may or may not have done something bad in his past?
People need to realize that humans are despicable beings, that will do bad things in their lives. Eventually time has passed, and they try to continue their lives, but everyone is just gonna jump their neck and treat them like a criminal for the rest of their lives. I'm not saying that I agree nor try to protect those people, nor how the issue is being handled (tho, honestly, the users who couldn't help but stir up the shitstorm further are being at fault just as well), but, again, if it doesn't affect me personally, or someone close to me, I do not see a reason to get on the hate-train and turn against an entire site's staff.
Then again, I live in a 3rd world country where the people are suffering from corruption, mis-management of resources and overall tyranny of the government, now coming to the point where basic food stuff becomes scarce and toiletpaper is almost a myth... so I got different views on the world than most people out in the 1st world.
I agree the updates are pending, yes, but the whole drama BS really needs to be stopped in its tracks.
It needs to stop. Not our business, doesn't concern us or affect us, so nobody should be running away from home over this crap.
I understand that its a fairly serious topic if it is what I heard, but still.
What happens when he is brought on the team though? Protest.
That is what makes it our business.
In a business mindset, even if they aren't paid (from what I know) they'll take what they can get if theyre short on time, or want to get their project team together as fast as possible.
I'm sure I speak for good portion of FA's (former) userbase here when I say we'd be more comfortable on a site that doesn't resort to mass suspension in order to stifle discussions.
Ugh, just leave already....
When people leave FA because of the way FA is run they get:
Ugh, why are you all leaving, this issue is none of your business.
>.>
It isn't our business, but it did spread everywhere like a disease to where it wasn't really avoidable and us humans are just nosy.
Also the way everything was handed just made me feel uncomfortable , BUT WHAT DO I KNOW.
A nice change from the obfuscation and general lack of concern here then! (not being sarcastic.)
I haven't checked weasyl's forums at all but should I have any issues with the site I'll make sure to. :o
*blinks idly at repetitive journals*
*blinks*
...Hm!
*goes back to life as she knows it*
*Cloaks away!* :P
Weasyl is just a less developed site and I have found it that way. All the users that the leap of faith and stay gone like to cause drama in my opinion.
I have read his journal on his side of the story and overreacting is the problem. Just let him work on the update and not his P.R. over this for now.
FA users are like the senate questioning the developers of Health Care.Gov wanting to know why it is not working and not letting them fix it. Leave him alone for now and let him work on the updates.
To simplify this, Let him do the updates and let his personal history not reflect how he is now.
Do not post the links because I will ignore them and you will likely be put near the top to have the comment hidden or worse. Best to end this conversation now.
Gotcha.
I'm just done sitting back and watching this whole thing. The apathy going on here is sickening.
I am trying to not get the links to avoid getting in trouble. Further more, I get the impression that you have already abandoned FA. If you keep posting you are ether staying on FA or a proverbial cop assisted suicide.
Also you are aware that "private notes" aren't private... right? Any admin can go through anyones private notes. This was proved in the great note leak of 2010...
honestly that will effect everyone more then this.
you guys are adorable
That the said person writes a journal 5 days later tryin to explain himself and his past behaviour, is all well and good, but what you are proposing is way too late. The damage has been done and instead of releasing a statement/journal right way, this situation was allowed to fester and splinter this awesome community.
When people are posting easy ways to move their galleries and watch lists over to sites like DA and Wsl. The damage may be unreparible. I truly wish this situation can be salvaged but I am not getting my hopes up. In the past I was always one to say, "just wait, they will be back". I am not saying that this time.
The time delay from when this situation developed and the lack of a response (only to get a post that a response is forthcoming) to this issue is what is causing me to truly back away from this site. This was a PR disaster and it seems the powers that be chose to try and let this blow over which has worked in the past. But I think that strategy was used one time too many.
To quote my mom, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think there were a lot of really good intentions to show how transparent the staff were going to be in revamping the site. By ignoring the proverbial elephant in the room, when it was loudly being adressed was a major blunder.
Good luck Fender in coming up with a solution that will see you bringing this fractured community back together. I really wish you all the best.
http://www.angelanoelle.com/.a/6a00.....a352970d-800wi
Radda mew yiff! I HAVE A VOICE IN THIS MATTER! ALL SHALL LISTEN TO ME!!!
mew MOOO neigh Baaaaaaaah radda harrrummph! Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--B6mP36xu.....1600/photo.jpg
THIS PROVES MY POINT! MY SIDE IS CORRECT!
Oops.
"Guilty until proven innocent ... in a court of law"
Nuff said
not one little bit.
nothing to do with anyone but the people involved.. now bring on the next offender!
This other stuff is just pretty much the last straw with me.
It's not even the claims against said user, but how people are acting in response.
:/ I'm most angry about that. You banned a lot f people t cover it all up.
Don't you mean silencing the community to help cover your ass?
Just take the guy off the team it's that damn simple. You can find any other coder in the world to do the job. I can guarantee you can find one that isn't a rapist.
Ditto. There are plenty of people who code.
But I agree that's sound logic.
It'd be FUCKING EMPTY.
We may not pay for it... but we still support it by being here and beholding ads. Furthermore, staff should have an obligation to try to keep their userbase here, as without it Furaffinity would not exist.
Do you know what that product is?
That product is you. When a person buys adspace, they're purchasing exposure to the FA userbase in the hopes that that exposure will pay off in sales. The money for adspace goes back into the running of the site, which allows more adspace to be purchased.
You have a right to be treated respectfully as a vastly important part of why this site exists. Of course you don't have to care about those rights or choose to do anything about it. But you have rights.
Neither hope Nor Obama
Can Change the sight of Zaush
Riding on my llama
:I People.
This either means censoring any discussion of the issue, or taking an official position as a site as to what is or is not true.
The first option is what you've been doing anyway, the second option is just going to cause more people to leave.
And, ya know, not kickin' your asses into gear and having done so ahead of time
Ya done fucked up
And you let it fester
Way to go
It's not like this is some kind of petty drama thing going on here.
It was a large issue in the past, and they are putting it out on the forefront once again.
By putting said person in charge.
They had it coming.
They should of known that and known what kind of shit storm it would cause.
I'm just surprised they are trying to fix it now, and not when they actually saw shit hitting the fan.
They've had enough time to actually come up with something to do.
Not say, "We are working on it."
A person's values doesn't determine the quality of their work in a given trade
but he's a pedophile
what do?
Let me put this in laymans terms
A teacher teaches children. Which means they wouldn't hire someone who's crime is directly related to what they deal with.
A coder codes websites. They have no interaction with what they are accused of.
I doubt he's out to get everyone but honestly if he wanted your IP, he wouldn't have to join a website to get it. He could simply get it.
That's why it matters. You don't support businesses that go against your core beliefs when there's alternatives, unless you have no morals, which would make you psychopathic.
"He made the trains run on time"
There's reasons people arent directly linking them on FA.
You still use those things. And those things affect your life a bit more than your local porn site.
Are peoples' furious comments REALLY causing FA to slowly crash again? If so... I don't know if that's sad, or hilarious.
too little too late
thank god this bullshit went down, otherwise I wouldn't know how disgusting a large chunk of this website really is. y'all will just take the narrowest chance to be rape apologistic victim blaming shits. And that's not just the admins, I'm talking about the userbase at large.
well, I say reading, I mean glancing at them and imagining they say what you want them to, rather than what's actually there.
ah well, never mind, I'm not going to debate that with someone that accused me and so many other people of being 'pro-rape' just because we didn't join in your little hate campaign. no point trying to talk to some people.
-You were not involved with the accused rapist.
-You were not a witness to the alleged crime.
-You have no pertinent evidence to the case (which was, by the way, never filed)
Therefore, it does not concern you.
If you want to say he's not qualified, okay. But the other is not the issue at hand. Maybe Zaush is a womanizer - maybe he doesn't have the best reputation with women. But RAPE is a matter for police and the ones involved, not a mob of histrionic furries.
The surface issue is that Zaush, who already has the strike of not knowing what he's doing, now has four victims coming up and then urged to hush by 'Neer- which further infuriates the fan base. Why would they want to stay in a site that condones that sort of thing? It may not involve them, but its still quite serious.
Personally, Neer's victim blaming and other comments made to someone who came out are reminicent of my assault. I ended up not reporting my attacker either due to this same attitude. Victims of sexual assault don't feel safe in a site like that.
You said that victims don't feel comfortable reporting their attackers - if that is the case, then how does it become a public spectacle in the first place? Why did the alleged victim go public and make it an issue for people who weren't involved? I would think (and having never suffered anything like that, I can only guess - if I've got it wrong, please enlighten me) that a sexual assault victim who was afraid to report it would keep it private altogether.
Please don't hear me saying "Oh she should just keep her mouth shut" - that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just confused as to why she would go public like that rather than going through the channels that could actually help her, like police etc. You yourself just said that doesn't feel safe.
"You said that victims don't feel comfortable reporting their attackers - if that is the case, then how does it become a public spectacle in the first place? "
In the tumblr post I linked, there was a section where the notes that were at first privately sent between dragoneer and the first victim were leaked to the public. So, this wasn't a choice on the victims part. When it exploded and maybe, when seh saw the support she got, she was comfortable enough to come forth on her own journal stating what had happened.
"...a sexual assault victim who was afraid to report it would keep it private altogether."
In the law system in palce today, its only natural to throw caution into the wind whenever a person accuses another person of something else. A person's integrity is brought to be questioned. However, in the areas of sexual assault, sexual assault goes far, far past a phsyical ordeal that lasts for however long it does. Here is a quote that may explain it a little more eloquently than I can manage:
Quoted from FascinatingFades on r/AskMen on reddit >> Link
"Yes, rape is unforgivable.
As a guy, I can't even imagine putting myself into a situation where the taking of something I hold so valuable is forced from me in a way that makes me feel powerless.
And the action of rape is only the beginning. That trauma is so severe that every incident even mildly relatable to that event is just as traumatic. A new boyfriend touches you the wrong way, instant shut down. A guy hollers at you in the streets, instant fear.
The act of rape changes the victim in such a immeasurable way. Either they spin wildly out of control and try their best to regain it and become desperately hollow. Or they shell up and it takes them years to regain just the perception of normality.
I've dated a girl who has been raped - the person who did that to her should be dead. He took from her so many things, so many possibilities, robbed her of her adolescence and sent her on a spiral that took her years and years of therapy to recover from. And I use recover there loosely, because she was strong up until something triggered her and then it would take weeks to regain that strength.
I don't know your friend, I don't know his situation. But as a general rule for myself - no I would never be forgive a friend if they raped someone."
With that said, you also have to deal with the authorities who automatically say that it either didn't happen, or that she was asking for it with the clothes she wore, or her behavior, or the simple fact that she was at his house to spend the night.
I couldnt, personally, go to the authorities because I was 16 and feeling guilty. He called me a whore when he was done, and I didn't want my friends or my parents to think that of me. That I'd deserve it because he was giving me oral. That he was allowed to because we were in a relationship.
If she went through the process of reporitng it, she'd recieve more scepticsim and rude and horrible words than support. It shuts down a person. Rape is one of those things that are very, bvery hard to bounce back from because it robs you of something you can't get back. Today, three years later, if someone mentioned how they lost their virginity, there's always going to be a pang in my heart that says "My first time wasn't my choice."
So, unfortuantely, it was not her choice to come out with it. When the cat was out of the bag, is when she decided to go forward. Because its such a grey area and it happened such a long time ago in the privacy of Zaush's home, it makes things difficult. In a jury, in a court, you're supposed to tell strangers every single excrutiating detail. Everything. you have to relive that night for months.
Wich, is why many victims never come forward.
The problem here is that everyone is assuming that he is guilty, and anyone who dares to think there's even the possibility that he wasn't is labeled a "victim blamer" and an "apologist" - that's just as bad.
However, I would like to clarify that I too, believe that zaush is accused- not convicted. However- having someone at the head of a highly publicized site is nOT good, and understandbly, people are angry because of his past. Its like- its not what he did or did not do, its the fact that he was accused, the fact that dragoneer asked her to hush, its a lot of little things. And a lot of people don't want to delve in the little things and just the term catchall 'rapist'.
On top of that, my personal issue resides in something that is quite tangible- zaush is NOT qualified to do what FA needs. Ben and his team was, and neer forgot about them. That is my main issue with Zaush being on head team. My secondary issue is how neer and zaush handled this whole ordeal. Again, not the accused rape, but how all of this came out to be.
I'm not really sure what people like you are honestly trying to do. You seem to be trying to stop all the 'drama' but you're only making things worse by paying attention. Every single one of your comments that you've made on this journal honestly make you look considerably ignorant of the real issue at hand here.
People are storming off of FA because "BAWWW FA is supporting a rapist" (which they don't know/aren't involved), when they should be raising their concerns about his qualifications and how the site can improve.
But I suppose you're right - "people like me" are just wasting our time because if this issue has taught me anything, it's that when people want drama, by heaven they're going to make it happen.
Regardless of this, I can honestly understand why people would not want anything to do with a site that has had any help from someone who is thought to be a rapist. I can see why they wouldn't want to support the site and why they might want to jump ship. Regardless of if this is true or not, it's going to be difficult for the staff to settle this drama now. Either way they're going to making a good handful of people royally upset.
I guess my way of thinking is like a lot of people are saying: if you're going to leave, leave. If you're going to stay, stay. I just don't get why people have to turn it into a big deal.
Perhaps calling a large group of people 'rape apologists and victim blamers' for not getting involved, or even for asking questions and trying to see both sides is going a bit far. But either way, the issue is that the FA staff handled the situation rather badly, reacting too late, trying to shut people up rather than openly discussing things, and most of all keeping a staff member that was both under suspicion and known to have acted badly in the past (and not to mention wasn't doing as good a job as the person he replaced)
Anyways, I'll not take up any more of your time.
1. Kick you know who off the team (his own explanation https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u.....s/journal.html of events paints him as sleazy, at best). He's not known for being trustworthy (or skilled) even sans allegations.
2. Bring back the volunteer team they had recoding the site they completely forgot about.
3. Install some motherfucking accountability so ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT TEAMS don't disappear into the void and Dragoneer's ideas are vetted rather than just running damage control on whatever the monarch forgot this week.
4. Apologize for banning people spreading facts. FACTS. They can say they are not, but that's not going to help their ass at this point. They've taken too long to respond, and banned too many people spreading them. Now people are convinced, at the very least, they had something to hide. http://ransomdracalis.tumblr.com/po.....-ashes-im-gone
5. Change the insular culture of the FurAffinity Forums that is a negative twisted poor reflection of the main website, and most FurAffinity members avoid like the plague for its venomous atmosphere.
6. Totally EXONERATE the alleged victim who came forward. She was not trying to ruin anyone's reputation. She didn't go to the police because she didn't want to destroy the fandom's reputation as such a media shitstorm would have naturally ensued had she gone public. That's the reason she sent the notes private to Dragoneer asking his advice rather than go to the police. To protect our fucking furry pride. Only after a HACKER got the notes and published them, did this story come to light. PUBLICLY DENOUNCE ALL PEOPLE FALSELY CLAIMING SHE WAS OUT TO SLANDER AND DEFAME FOR ATTENTION/MONEY AS GOING TO DRAGONEER IN PRIVATE WAS A (FOOLISH) SACRIFICE TO AVOID ATTENTION AND SHAME. She should be strongly regretting her decision to not go to the police to protect our "furry fandom" for how much it has ungratefully repaid her.
NOTE that despite all this drama, and following closely along, I haven't heard anything from the original victim. Perhaps she is still avoiding attention and shame. Shame on the ENTIRE furry community for falsely painting her for making these allegations in PRIVATE as an attention whore.
If FurAffinity does all this, they can convince the community and save enough face to keep this website from going the way of the VCL dinosaur -- even though colossal damage has already been inflicted to inevitably dethrone FA as the lead furry website just on account of its miserable management.
If anything about this experience has taught us is that one website SHOULDN'T hold total dominion over the keys to the furry kingdom like this one has been.
And whiteknights, drop the "it's a free website" feeble defense. All FA's competitors have free websites -- and look and function better!
Do you know what that product is?
That product is you. When a person buys adspace, they're purchasing exposure to the FA userbase in the hopes that that exposure will pay off in sales. The money for adspace goes back into the running of the site, which allows more adspace to be purchased.
You have a right to be treated respectfully as a vastly important part of why this site exists. Of course you don't have to care about those rights or choose to do anything about it. But you have rights.
You're on a site that is being coded by someone who at best has a history of being "pushy" at best (if the accusations are false *lol*) and at worst a rapist (if the accusations are true). Now someone like this has the reigns to the biggest furry art site. Like, seriously? You don't think something like that would affect you?
Also, a good chunk of the migration is due to the poor handling by the admin staff, regardless of whether rape happened or not.
It's a number of things, that pushed people away, not just Zaush.
But yes, it's just so many things done wrong, piling up one after another.
Also the fact that now he can have an easy access to people's private information. Email addresses, notes etc. How is that a good idea at all?
I feel like it's a whole different kettle of fish, I mean he did one thing, or is accused of one thing. That doesn't mean he's gonna go and do everything, but don't think I'm not in the same boat as you, I think he should be fired, He's causing too much trouble whatever he did.
Personally, I haven't decided to leave FA, because I know the issue really doesn't concern me.
Simply put, it's between the admins. Not the next, random, unknown kid down the block.
I also have never really felt much of a threat.
And the site, as a whole, never bothered me, regarding updates and shit, because Im usually just too busy to care.
Y'know, what with my hectic college life, and all.
One thing I think this journal is really late for though, is it's target audience.
A good majority of those who NEEDED to hear this, whether they wanted to or not, have already left.
The people who REALLY needed to know this information, have already packed up, and fled to Weasyl, or some other site.
And you know what? Many of them are never coming back.
Thousands flock to weasyl, the site is fully lambasted and ass blasted to the point where an entire ED article is being made, people realize FA isn't the only place you can look at furry art, everybody gains one less reason to trust this site.
Consequences of hiring Ben.Anderson and his team from before:
Literally nothing. And they were already done.
So hey regardless of the truth in the accusations everybody's choices here caused irreferable damage that could have been avoided. Regardless of if the THING actually happened, the choice in hiring him caused a fuckup. Regardless of neer trying to act in neutrality, it caused the opposite of neutrality, as you can probably tell by the sheer existence of this journal.
You dun goofed. REGARDLESS of what you intended.
http://i.imgur.com/m9mzApm.gif
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5378139/
So, in short, it was not functional. It was a proof-of-concept prior to any sort of functional prototype. We have jobs, families, and friends outside of FA. =P We're good, but not that fast!
By function and done I meant that your project was functional and you were more done than what they went with.
Essentially that going with you guys there would be no site explosion of journals with 3000 comments and thousands of people moving to a different site. That kind of functional.
also One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself
and finally if you want to blindly point fingers then how about putting your jobs and lives on the line? cause thats what kind of damage blind rage can cause to someone that is truly innocent
All of these people have reported similar behavior. Weird /that/ many people have talked about it...
I tried to clarify that, but I doubt it will matter at this point. When I told Sciggles of this, I left out names... and she mentioned that Zaush tried to do something like this to even her. But she mentioned when she said no, despite him keeping asking and insisting, he backed off.
So I can't verify it on every instance, but I didn't agree with Zaush and the accusations concerned me. I just didn't want her getting burned.
I'm not an idiot...
But again, Ferality and Littlebluewolf have had similar stories. It hasn't just been a single incident.
Whether its there or not nothing ever happened between Zaush and I and if the comment is real then I apologize to everyone I've been telling off and I'm going to have to have a chat with my husband...this is rather upsetting for me...
Well to clear it up nothing happened between Zaush and I and he never came onto me. If he did I would be the one speaking up about it not sending my husband to do so...uuuuugh....
Because the whole process is frankly very hard on a person and a lot of them prefer to deal with it by themselves than have to face their abuser over and over again in court.
So again , the fact it hasn't gone to court DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE SHOULD DOUBT THE VICTIM!
If you only had listened.
You could of PREVENTED THIS.
IT'S HAPPENING.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oDClmpvM8Y
This is a pretty good explanation on why people are leaving.
THIS
"There are plenty of good alternatives out there, and now the mindless fucks on here have the perfect opportunity to choose one."
Then the drama started
Not only is he a terrible person in general for what he has done, he is just a shitty person for not being good at anything
He's lost you like half your userbase and isn't even any fucking good at coding
What the fuck is he, like the office fuckdumpster or some shit
He is causing nothing but problems and after a week of this site burning to the ground in every conceivable economic, moral and social fashion your only response is "You're working on it"
what the fuck is wrong with all of you
That's for you!
:D
Best comment I've read all night.
along with that whole comment
just made my night. ~
But the way FA works when it comes to coding and "IM WORKING ON IT!" mentality is like Chris Chan and his Sonichu comics.
"IM WORKING ON IT!!!"
Like, if you get hired and you find out your boss is a rapist, what would you do? are you going to quit? or are you going to quit your job screaming at your bosses face "RAPIST!! I HOPE YOU GET RAPED BACK" or some other things that make you lose more then job
If a furry punches some one in the face.. and it is an admin..
people will leave fa over that?
you guys are bunch of crying drama furs...
:/
Rape != a punch in the face...
I hope you never have to experience a serious traumatic event in your life.
A punch is in no way comparable to date-rape followed by hiring of date-rapist as head of coding and then censorship of critics.
considering you suspend anyone who brings it up as 'harassing staff' even if they aren't, and are just giving their reasons for leaving the site.
but hey, piling on suspensions to anyone who spoke about it really helped the situation and totally didn't drive more people away.
at least weasyl is benefitting.
You MUST make a forth content category (like the GENERAL/MATURE/ADULT ones) for EXTREME fetishes like ero-guro/gore, scat, watersports and other stuff like that.
Valve TimeSoon™Seems like everything on FA these days has to be some long drawn out process. I think you already know what most people are expecting to be done.
I hope that sliding everything under the rug and hoping everyone will eventually accept and move on from it isn't one of the possible resolutions. :/
But I'll withhold my positive comments until I see action taken. Addressing concerns is a nice place to start, but how about addressing that troublesome staff arrangement while we're at it?
Can't help but wonder just how many people have left the site over this mess. I've heard the comment "this has happened before and they'll come back" passed like a joint, but the likelihood that all of the users who left will return is nonexistent. FA's lost a wealth of users and respect over a matter that could have been avoided if they only hadn't tossed promotions to rapists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrdPbgXnMo
I'm looking forward to seeing what Project Phoenix will bring!
BIG BEEFY BACON BUTTS.
Go!
All I can say about the new site design at this stage is it better be worth our whiles.
People need to grow the fuck up and mind their own goddamn buisness.
I just. I can't even wrap my head around some people's responses/viewpoints. At ALL.
Jesus Christ...
It would probably make it worse.
It's pretty fucking unbelievable how some of the people in this thread CANNOT COMPREHEND!
It's called common sense ! But apparently , they weren't there the day it was being passed around.
http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/u.....ope-button.gif
NOPE
Remove the individual and apologise for the attempted cover-up, and maybe some of the more forgiving artists will return.
But yeah I'm super surprised with how fast it still is.
They are responsible for flagging submissions up, but don't actually remove them. If an admin removes the flagged submission, the ferret remains anonymous to the submitter.
My point was it is especially impolite to say "I hope Weasyl's servers explode" considering someone actually was attacking them in that way.
this is not about simple drama, or rumors, or about the interface, it's about the simple fact that dragoneer uses his fame and status as an admin to cover for the rapes and abusive actions of someone; this assists in perpetuating his behavior, so he will hurt more people because he thinks he won't get in trouble. "Well, why don't they call the police?" "Where are my court cases?" "WHERE IS PROOF THAT SOMEONE WAS ASSAULTED!!!! I NEED PROOF"
http://www.rainn.org/get-informatio.....eporting-rates
countless people get away with rape on the regular, for many reasons. one of them is victims being afraid to speak out due to fear of further abuse.
. another is the constant need to legitimize the problem and silence the victims. if you continue to support dragoneer, you are not only hurting individual people, but all victims of rape by communicating to them that they shouldn't say anything because 1) there will be repercussions on them for speaking out, and 2) that their abuser will not be brought to justice because "it wasn't rape enough! you eventually said yes, so it's ok! he was just pushy, that's NOT rape! rape is violent!" and other shitty garbage assumptions about sexual abuse and violence. this is why this is a big deal, and important. putting an abuser in a position of social power and of authority, where he can have his ass covered and be allowed to do whatever he pleases essentially, is how we go backwards, not forwards.
Entire argument ruined.
The majority of you are so oblivious and stupid at obvious logic that the only way you really know how to argue is to parrot words you hear on you SJW tumblr pages. You plug your ears to the fact that there's literally no proof aside from a PM that got leaked that this man has committed rape. It's hilarious to me, because everyone acts like that rape hasn't been faked before, or someone hasn't perceived something as rape when it actually isn't before. Instead when challenged to any argument all you people have to scream is "m-muh rape culturrrre! m-muh rape apologist" as if it's, for some reason, a form of argument. You people are so grossly idiotic that it makes me want to leave the site - not because someone who is being accused of rape without proof is on staff - but because the vast majority of you are simply pants on head retarded and absolutely void of any logic and reasoning skills.
A "suspected rapist" is never a cause to feel unsafe and to leave a website, and if you think so, then you're simply fooling yourself and are looking for any old reason to leave regardless. That or you're just so foolish that any mention of the word "rape" puts you into such a shock and panic that your mind becomes a black hole where logic = light, and it just can't escape it and is completely obliterated, regardless of proof or not.
Hell if it's that easy to win you morons over without proof, I'll just start making journals during the next presidential election where I blame the candidate I dislike of being a rapist. I don't need proof, as shown by you guys.
the fact that you think rape culture doesn't exist is evidence of rape culture
that you think rape is an ulterior motive and excuse for something "more important" to you
do you know what it's like to feel scared because you're in a community that you love a lot, but if you were assaulted, raped, or harmed in any way verbally or physically/emotionally, that you would not be believed, because of people like you delegitimizing how webbed into our system sexual violence is? do you know how rare false rape claims are? if not, watch less tv, fuckhead.
oh no, rapist in the room, better not feel unsafe or i'm stupid! haha
have fun having your ass wiped by your own ignorance lmao
You know what that sentence right there does? It completely negates your argument, and the reason being is that it is designed to make it impossible for the opposition to argue. "You don't think it exists? There's your proof that it does." If only arguing was that easy, right? Unfortunately for you, I'm not a blithering retard and I'm not going to accept that as an argument. Either you give me a logical, reasonable argument that makes total sense, or you simply admit that you have none and you find it easier to parrot words and phrases you see on tumblr rather than make a compelling argument.
"do you know what it's like to feel scared because you're in a community that you love a lot, but if you were assaulted, raped, or harmed in any way verbally or physically/emotionally, that you would not be believed, because of people like you delegitimizing how webbed into our system sexual violence is? do you know how rare false rape claims are? if not, watch less tv, fuckhead."
"People like you" is a pretty hilarious statement, because I haven't done anything of the sort. I fail to see how my disbelief in a completely made-up term has any affect on whether or not someone was raped. False rapes are rare, yes, but that isn't an argument that they do not happen and that this could not be one of the rare moments. Make an argument and quit acting like a moron for once.
"oh no, rapist in the room, better not feel unsafe or i'm stupid! haha"
I never said that. I said it makes no sense to leave a website because someone was suspected of rape and hired onto the staff. If the person is a convicted rapist, then by all means, feel unsafe and leave, but you have zero proof that he has actually committed any crime. Anyone can say anyone did anything to them, but without the evidence and proof, it simply does not make it true. Did you know that someone claims that Bill Murray raped them and they passionately believe it's true? Should I stop watching Bill Murray movies or suddenly feel unsafe to even have him on the television? No, of course not, because it a completely absurd claim and there is zero evidence or proof to back such a claim up. The same logic applies here. I'm not entirely surprised that it's going over your head, given your past replies to me, but hopefully you'll learn to think logically instead of retardedly.
"have fun having your ass wiped by your own ignorance lmao"
It's actually arguably less ignorant to demand proof of a crime than to blindly believe in it.
Here's my proof that someone passionately believes that Bill Murray raped them. It's actually a very largely known rumor and it all stems from this picture. However, that's simply a person's word with zero evidence or proof of any sort to back it up.
Further, to address your point of "She didn't want it but for whatever reason she did it anyway. She wasn't forced to do it." That's just it. You're answering your own question! That is COERCION. Sex that is agreed to by coercion is RAPE. It doesn't HAVE to be about physical overpowering. It doesn't have to be kicking and screaming and fighting. The fact of the matter is that if they agreed after being badgered and hounded and heckled over it, it would wear them down to the point they would say yes just to get it over with. That is RAPE.
http://www.clarku.edu/offices/dos/s.....definition.cfm
One of the definitions state it is done by COERCION. This is done through harassment and/or badgering.
also the fact that they were constantly 'uncomfortable' in his presence...
come on now, if a dude tries to put unwanted moves on me, i don't go back to their house
for 2nds, and forget driving 3 hours. if i'm driving 3 hours its because i WANT to have sex.
and how the hell did dude get turned on by depressed, reluctant vagina ? this dude
has one hell of a screwed-up, sad sex life to be like, yeah mopey socially awkward chic
with no confidence... i'd hit that.
i'm saying they're both pretty pathetic. and i lose all respect for a guy who's tatical
'moves with the ladies' are to promise 'sexual healing' or to guilt them into having sex with him.
i'm not calling it rape, but instead quite possibly the most depressing hook up in fandom history.
to everyone calling it rape, put yourself in her shoes, if you knew was was goin' down would you
drive 3 hours to be around that?
i'm not trying to blame the victim but when you play with snakes...
Right.
Im not saying hes not an ass. Hes a terrible person for the things he says. But ill not stand idly by and watch someone be accused of something they may or may not have done by people that dont even know anything about the incident. Especially something as serious as rape.
"Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken, that harms a person's reputation; decreases the respect, regard, or confidence in which a person is held; or induces disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against a person."
But they mishandled it, and instead just deleted comments and issued bans with little to no explanation. Yes that is something to be angry about. And by all means rant and rave about it. ill probably join you. But the Zaush incident has no bearing on current events. If you are uncomfortable with him being a member of staff say something. But don't go all "OMG HE"S A RAPIST YOU MONSTERS" as that will neither help the issue or reinforce your point, it will only be ignored and deleted by admins.
also do you want to know what often times there aren't police records of rapes? because the victims are too afraid to come forward. by your logic most rapes in history would never come to light because most victims are too fearful or withdrawn to say much of anything.
I'M JUST
LOL
IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO TALK ABOUT WITH ANYBODY, LET ALONE YOUR FAMILY. BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED IS HUMILIATING, GUILT INDUCING, AND LEAVES FEAR IN YOU FOR A LONG TIME
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RAPE, AND NEED TO SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR PAPER-PROOF RAPE ENABLING BULLSHIT
What gives you the right to assume i know nothing of rape or what its like to be sexually abused? Cause what if i was to say i did?
I think you need to quiet down before you make yourself look like more of an idiot than you already have.
That doesn't mean they don't happen you fuckface!
Go on and excuse me of rape .
I mean it's not like I could have raped someone I have never physically met . I'm not the holy spirit for christ's sake!
You are obviously making no attempt to prove anything here, so why should i?
Bravo, once again swing and a miss FA. Not only did it take you nearly a week to say anything at all, this all you come up with....wow. Although i really dont know what i was expecting. I mean for ***** sake, look who im talking about.... Just keep digging that hole FA, cause at this point, you might as well try to reach the other side. Cause you aint going back.
Welp, I can't argue with you there.
Friends or not, if they can't do their job properly, fire and get rid of them. And if the rape case is true, then you should probably also call the police and/or beat said friend with a baseball bat.
Nothing can excuse what was done to handle the recent situations.
I'm so ready for this shit to be done.
If you're leaving, shut up and leave.
If you're staying, shut up and stay.
If you're admin, I'm so fucking sorry you have to deal with this bullshit, you're braver than me.
Can we go back to being an ART site now?
You seem to have gotten lost on the way out last time.
We need some better signage up in here.
Don't waste your breath. <3
HONESTLY if there's a reason to leave this site, it's people like this fuck-nugget right here.
SHOCKING PROOF
See? It's a source! It's most certainly reliable. Plus, my friends said that Dragoneer personally executed 372 hostages. Hearsay is reliable, right?
I'm going to ignore your reasonable responses and insinuate that FA is worse than hitler. They also have been covering up my comments, since I'm pretty sure I posted about this thousands of times (yet can't really remember when I posted and never bothered to record).
Now, I need to go back to righteously informing others that I quit FA for the seventeen THOUSANDTH time today. Toodles!
Besides, it is FAR easier to reach everyone concerned with it this way, and then if someone else doesn't care, they simply need to ignore it.
I'm also wondering if this whole thing will have any effect on associated convention, FA United. Seeing there's no more FurFright, I hope all this BS doesn't but FAU in jeopardy, then there'd be NO cons to go to for me, and NOT WORTH getting a fursuit!
*goes into a RAGE and wastes a few 100 humans!*
Ok.
And this is NOT pimpage, this is actually me loudly expressing my opinions over the behaviour of everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) over this entire issue.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5436855/
Or stay ignorant, who cares. Cheers bud
You don't win arguments by stomping your feet around and NOT knowing what the actual issue is.
You don't make arguments by stomping your feet around and NOT making an argument.
Though highly doubt it;s either imho.
Not that it matters to me, but the trend has become incredibly obvious at this point.
Neither I , nor many people I know , have jumped on those "flee-the-sinking-boat" bandwagons in the past. Yet this time , a lot of people I know have.
We're tired of the BS , and this is the straw that broke the camel's back.
*After all, there are other sites, but they aren't as shiny and new, right? Why not Sofurry, Inkbunny, Deviantart, Tumblr and etc? =P*
,--.!,
__/ -*-
,d08b. '|`
0088MM
`9MMP'
Well no XD but hearing a lot of weasyl, I'd like to give it a try and see it it's true that it's sooo good XP
If Zaush has such terrible PR rep why would you ever consider hiring him for this?
This is a website not a private party. When you look for someone to hire you look at their work and their reputation, not to if they are your buddies or not.
Does anyone here have even the slightest idea how to manage a website staff at all? Cause this is basic knowledge everywhere.
Both Dragoneer and Zaush have responded to this mess in horrendous fashion. If everything was all rainbows and sunshine, their responses should have reflected level-headedness and clarity-- but they did not.
Not to mention hiding comments and suspending users for discussing this issue was a HUGE screw up. That is literally the worst way to handle any situation of this scale.
I hope they clear it all up but in the meantime, I think I might check out some other sites. I've been feeling like I don't enjoy the FA community much anyway and I've never tried other sites so it might be interesting to explore them a bit.
I know it's beating a dead horse at this point, but I'd really recommend Weasyl. It has its flaws, but I believe the pros outweigh the cons and it is a budding young site off to a good start.
Banning such people is completely fine; it's like restraining a person who wants to burn his house down to get attention.
I have no idea what this is about.
It's complicated... I (seriously) wish so as well.
There are always alternatives, that's why everyone insists on weasyl.
2. Not everyone is "bickering" here. People are disagreeing with you and speaking out. There are those doing is aggressively-- on BOTH sides-- but that doesn't override the opinions being expressed.
3. A person's decision to quit is their own choice and should not be seen as a disgraceful action.
Just because you disagree with this "drama" does not mean that it is purposeless.
Oh, that's right, they're at Weasyl, they can't hear us. Who is this journal directed to, exactly?
**Though, excuse me, if I ma have skipped over any others. I sometimes read too fast.
For a second time.
Two years after it was addressed the first time.
Translation: we're still trying to find a rug big enough to sweep this under.
That is the usual "fix" FA likes to use.
Silence the parties responsible and protect its own.
Yep
It gave me a realllllly good way to prune out all the crazy from the people I'm watching.
How about we do this again this time next year? It'll be like... spring cleaning, but for furries.
My suggestion, though, is to do it like The Lottery, sort of: We'll have Dragoneer random.org one of the 11,000+ users and THEY'LL be the one that gets witch hunted against. :D
Or maybe avoiding working with people that have a very shaddy past with "rumors" that yell louder than 2000 speaker-phones wherever they go.
Lol, just kidding back to running a drama circus
I would like to guess that something silly and political and nature is causing drama.
Pretty much this.
I have looked at other sources and have determined that these admins are not very capable at being moderators of social situations.
I argue that these admins have certain aspects of their life which should've been private, and was irrelevant to the administration and development of FurAffinity, and have been bad at diffusing a situation which should not have happened.
Users are also to blame, by creating drama, and doing the "I'M SWITCHING, YOU SWITCHING? YOU BETTER SWITCH." thing, as evidenced by some posts.
Either way the whole situation is stupid, and I expect FA to implode inwards on itself as a result of the actions of its admins and users.
Action advised:
Begin making caches of local FA content that is unique, if you want to keep it.
Idea:
Website which aggregates content from all the known popular furry sites into one content stream, combining the good features of all the sites without the attachment of bad administration or other baggage that any may bring.
Yeah, boyyyeee!
Simon Pegg / Nick Frost / EPIC
*Clear the slot for the accused-saves your asses. trust me even a pollitician would flush that stanky turd.
*Make your code open source and actually get work done for once-trust is not an issue> the damn code getting a decade old is the issue.
doesnt matter what you personally think as an administrator about the guy. bad business is bad business and should be cleaned up.
#1, Project Phoenix just might be a fix to all the problems that FA has had in the past. What's the worst, FA is down? Big surprise!
#2, The new admin is not coming over for dinner, he's not dating our sister or daughter, he's just an admin of the site, that's all. wtf?
If he IS guilty of what was said about him... Him being able to admin the site just means that he's served his time and is a free man now.
Being a convicted criminal should NOT be the end of one's life. Sure, be a little careful if you meet him in a dark alley. Otherwise, harmless.
Just my sarcastic 2-cents worth of drama... I'm not leaving FA... EVER
Not to mention, when these issues came to light, the staff tried to hide comments and suspend users, rather than address them. A person without blame does not sweep issues under the rug.
This isn't just about the rape issue, it's also a matter of trust between site users and staff.
Although, morals are a big part of this issue and not to be ignored. While some crimes do not necessarily condemn a person, rape is not one of those lighthearted crimes so easily forgiven.
It's only what we've heard, and what we've heard is always over exaggerated the longer the distance it has traveled...
And a greater point to make is that, regardless of what happened in the past, what is currently happening is site admins are hiding comments, suspending users, and replying in horrendous fashion to an issue that should have and could have been discussed in a forward manner.
The main focus of this is, who knows the truth? I don't know. And I'll stand humbly corrected if I'm wrong about him. But still, I don't/can't see the difference it makes.
Everyone is acting as if this guy has Leprosy and just being on the same website with him will also make them a rapist. It's not NAMBLA - It's Fur Affinity lmfao!!!
I'm going to vomit.
OH MAN - GROSS!!!
That is the single most HORRENDOUS thing I have heard spoken regarding this issue as a whole and I've seen some low shit.
Honestly, I just want to let you know you need some counseling man, you might be a serious psychopath. If not for the community, but for the people around you...
Psychopath and sociopath are close, but not exactly the same thing. lol
WTF does Christianity have to do with anything?
I'm sorry if I've offended you or anyone else. Sincerely, I'm not here to ruffle any feathers. I'm just stating my opinion, as opposite and controversial as it may be compared to what the masses have to say about this whole mess. As much as you have the right to completely shut this guy out, I also have the rights to say "Maybe we can give him a chance?"
Which is an amusing mindset, because I am highly forgiving of most people. To the point where I've been abused by said people. Yet there are still some things that I will not forgive, no matter who the person is. Or their affiliation with me.
I, myself, am Pagan. And I have no disrespect for anyone for what they believe, what they practice, or what they do, as long as what they believe, what they practice, and what they do, does not hurt another person. When it hurts others, I get angry. As one can exist in this world, with out needing to harm everyone else. And those that run around flinging (or preaching) hate also make me angry. I prefer coexistence. And... being respectful.
You're allowed your opinion. I will say that I don't agree with it, and leave it at that. As I am in no mood to be flinging hate and anger around at the moment. Or in general, really.
I will say this, though. I don't think giving him a chance is an option now. Not as a coder, anyway. There's been too much of an uproar. If they want to site to calm down, they should remove him from the team. 8| But whether they do that or not, is their decision. And theirs to make. They just have to deal with whatever consequences come from the decision they make.
Even tho we won't agree with the whole thing, we're speaking (err-TYPING) like normal people lol. I respect that more than anything... Thanks
And yes. It's nice to be able to talk, without like... insulting each other, or bashing each other. Even if we don't agree, or have issues with anything each other have said. C:
I guess, I can't blame others for being more vocal, of course. or angry. 8| I legit get that.
You're welcome.
Second, I just read your most recent journal and my opinion to you
(as unimportant as it may be to you... and probably everyone else),
you should stay on FA, even if you move on to Weasyl. Don't leave
your friends who decide not to move to Weasyl with the rest of the
lemmings. I'm sorry if I've offended you with the above comment :(
And huzzah better informed people! 8D
But it's okay! Clearly he, and I, both were alerted to it. Because we both initially responded. And, I do enjoy having my knowledge base expanded (as long as it's in a non-overly aggressive manner) So I don't mind at all, that it was sent to me too. lol
My father is a sociopath. Not a psychopath. Either way, I don't enjoy interacting with him.
Stealing a can of pepsi won't TRAUMATISE the store owner for life, you twat!
Omg, this!
Thank you Blizz!
Just because he is a good programmer doesn't mean he is a good person IMO
Have fun reading why the coders that left because of him knows why project phoenix is going to crash and burn =P
...Inkbunny? 8D
I can assure you all that there is no one on their staff that would cause annnnny concern for those of you angry about FA's new coder. No one whatsoever!
(j/k Inkbunny, you know I love you)
You have got to be kidding me!
This is about something serious that needs serious professional action.
The accused party has made clear that something happened or else twitter wouldn't be riddled with the posts this said person made.
I personally love FA and am saddened that it would even need to have a discussion in regards to this.
Until something gets done, I am not setting another foot on this site.
I mean my God, the solution is simple.
Rumor or not, the professional thing to do would be to remove the accused party from a powerful role to save face....
I mean Jesus.....
I mean it is so simple to fix.....people are leaving in waves and FA has to "work to resolve the issues" and "quelling any rumors"
I think Zaush made it clear something happened in his twitter posts but apparently they still need to discuss things.....
K
-Rumors already spewed by social websites and countless journals swept under the rug-
<Answer the communities questions>
-Still awaiting a response 5 days later-
Yup, good going FA.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some bullshit that doesn't concern me to forget.
if you don't discuss something and invite dialouge its as if you're trying to hide it...
they've nor necessarily done either in this case, however.
(well indirectly call attention to it as you've pointed out)
Rumors about rape and people being told not to report them: minor
Guy involved in said rumors having access to data like my IP address which can be traced to my home address: minor/moderate (nothing proven really so will not get heckles up for it)
Guy wanting to use NodeJS and saying he's pro at it (apparently) and then trying to wrap his head around said language when there are better options available: Severe...seriously fucking severe. You don't use a language you don't know that is at best going to be a stop gap for a ground up re-write of the code when there are better options out there. I'm not the best at code but I've dealt with databases enough to know that NodeJS is not what the site is going to need.
It's actually that last one that has made me seriously start using my Weasyl though I don't plan on leaving leaving, I am most certainly going to be using it and SoFurry and DA much much more in the future because if NodeJS is what we are going to be stuck with... in one years time which is likely when the rewrite will be finished FA will be too big to run smoothly on it.
I couldn't give two flying shits about other peoples business.
How exactly does anything that happened effect the way we create, post, buy and share art?
It doesn't.
So I'll just be going back to what I do and draw for a living, And be thankful that this site even exists to let me do such a thing.
And anyone who belittles anyone for staying on the site can shove off. (as can the people belittling others for leaving)
The reasons are varied.
Some people have left because of [redacted] and what they were accused of doing to [redacted].
Others are leaving, not because of [redacted] but because they are tired of how the staff handles things.
In those cases, it's just the 'last nail in the coffin' type thing. They've put up with shit for years.
This recent stuff and the handling of it was just the icing on the 'shit cake'.
Others still are leaving because of how the community is acting, are sickened by the lack of empathy or the belittling of their emotions into 'Just Furry Drama!'
And still others are leaving, because if the allegations against [redacted] do/did turn out to be true, they would feel completely unsafe.
Those mostly being people who have dealt with sexual assault, rape, or molestation.
And that is a valid opinion.
(no I will not go into why, I'm done talking about it at length)Some have left, because when they legitimately voiced concern, without being a dramatic child or insulting, they were 'banned' and their comments hidden.
So, while your opinion is totally valid, and no one should hate on you for sticking around on the site.
People do have legitimate reasons for either being uncomfortable, being fed up, or just outright leaving in general.
Most of it isn't so much bandwagon, as it's a huge reaction to how things have gone, and how they have turned out so far.
And we wish they'd hurry up and just... go... already. Leave us in peace.
Or are you just adding uselessness to a post that was simply informing the other user that there is more than one reason for the mass exodus?
And that their opinions on the matter are as valid as other people's opinions on the matter.
But also. >_> Dunno where you're getting your sources from. No one fostered or encouraged anyone to engage in the 'witch hunt'.
People who went on a witch hunt did so of their own free will. And not at the behest of others.
No one posted the information they did going "Yo, and go attack [redacted] while you're at it. Make his life hell!"
Anyone who went on a witch hunt after [redacted], made that decision and ran with it.
Each person who found out information made their decisions and ran with them too.
For some, that was to ignore it, and also belittle the intelligence of other users.
For some, that was to quickly remove their presence from the site and have nothing more to do with any of it.
For some that was being loud, and sharing information (which was deleted ahaha...)
For some it was, as you said, to go on a witch hunt after the 'issue'.
But, not all decisions were made from the same piece of information.
People are not just leaving because of [redacted]. That is the truth.
And personally, I don't condone witch hunts.
They're as problematic as some of the toxic opinions I've seen from others.
And the attacking of each other, the belittling of each other's intelligence. Pretty disgusting really.
And, by comparison, some of the people leaving are happy to be free of the cesspool and people with toxic ideas, ideals, and opinions.
Soooo... Yay for everyone?? Whether they are leaving or staying????????7
If you're of a like-minded opinion that witch hunting is toxic and such, then you and I are in agreement.
Really, it seems to all come down to a lot of people were unhappy (as happens with any community of a sizeable nature) and... honestly, I don't know. Dammit, I'm falling asleep.
Anyway, I hope I can get back to enjoying art soon. @_@
I'm also of the mind that just turning a blind eye or just calling everything useless drama is toxic. And belittling.
I mean, FA has turned into a cesspool in less than a week. It's kinda scary. And those who are adding to the cessy-ness of it have come from both sides. lol
Over all, I'm just unimpressed with how the staff handled things, and have completely removed my opinion of 'who's telling the truth' and 'who's lying' as far as the Zaush stuff goes. I have my opinion on rape, and all. And I take issue with how belittled it can be. but I'm done fighting that fight. And I'm not going to hunt people down to call them rape apologists. (kinda frustrating that anyone did that in the first place really)
I'm sure you'll be able to get back to art enjoying soon enough. Or... well, for your sake, I suppose, I hope so. lol
I don't know how long this is going to affect the community at large, let alone just on FA.
Ahhh...
Basically all the [redacted] parts are similar to how many of the stories are written.
8| Zaush's recent journal looks much the same, since he had to remove the links.
But yeah. xD I was just trying not to use people's user names.
You already pushed past the boundaries by banning people.
It makes it look like you truly ARE hiding something.
GG... just... GG
Inb4commentshiddenbelow.
You f**ked up. End of story.
Oh, wait, that's not what you're doing - you're encouraging that behavior! Because it's okay to violate the rights of other people as long as sex isn't involved, apparently. 8D
Sometimes aggression is needed for change. If people were docile and submission in the face of adversity, we would still be dealing with segregation and whether or not women should be able to vote.
The answer to any issue is never to just get along and pretend that nothing is wrong. Any relationship requires communication, and sometimes that communication is negative. The fact that the staff tried to hide the issue, rather than discuss it, is VERY problematic.
And it's plain to see that he hasn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPZuYwYxnL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By84_xRCE3U
Smooth mooooooooove!
I can only imagine what the next journal will be like lol
y'all gonna fire zaush and neer both, right?
Thank you, eris!
That being said, I skeptically look forward to seeing how the staff handles this. I'm not getting my hopes up, though. :\
See here!
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
"Sociopaths are masters at influence and deception. Very little of what they say actually checks out in terms of facts or reality, but they're extremely skillful at making the things they say sound believable, even if they're just making them up out of thin air."
"Sociopaths are masters are presenting themselves as heroes with high morals and philosophy, yet underneath it they are the true criminal minds in society who steal, undermine, deceive, and often incite emotional chaos among entire communities."
Referenced from here.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036112_s.....influence.html
Now that you have read this go back and read his Journal.
Things do match up. He's an excellent storyteller, he never addressed the mention of him raping a girl after inebriating her, he never once apologized, his tone seemed very consistent and unaffected, and he tried acting the hero by telling people to "think for themselves." You make a very convincing argument here.
Dragoneer: "Fender! Set damage control levels to maximum!"
Fender: "Aye, aye, sir!"
I don't really get into what passes for new amongst furries in the real world, only amongst role playing circles - which tends to be made up, so a little clarity would be welcome.
T wT
Not to mention, Zaush is now a person in a place of power that many people would rather not trust in a position of power. This is a matter of trust between users of a site and its admins.
Does this mean I shouldn't use phones? I mean....this is so beyond rape.
I'm just going to leave this here. You've read a lot of comments. Take a break. Watch a movie.
Please don't yell at me. :3
If I start harassing people because they do not leave, whine about how horrible it is to stay on FA, then sure, call it drama.
But do not think that you can harass people that leave, call it immature, ridicule those that leave, and think you are above the drama. If you do, then you are as much part of the drama as those you flame.
None of my business. Don't care. Whatever. Furries love their drama and the group of amateurs that run this website do a great job of feeding the drama queens day after day though.
http://ransomdracalis.tumblr.com/po.....-ashes-im-gone
Lol I'm going to wait til you delete this comment FA but you're going to do nothing to change the fact that people already know your dirty little secrets.
Something as big as this? You can't quiet people whether you want them to or not.
"Fighting with thick-skulled, apathetic rape-apologists all weekend has been draining. It's like some people have a 100% immunity to both logic and empathy. However, the support I've received on Fur Affinity, Tumblr, here on Weasyl, and in private has all been very encouraging and heartwarming." ~Ransom From here: https://www.weasyl.com/journal/24575
I am not going to go into whether or not the allegations are true, because the truth is, I don't know and it isn't specifically relevant to what I'm going to say. What I am here to say is this:
The perception of a large section of the user base is that he did something wrong. By deciding to go with him anyway, FA chooses to alienate and offend their user base. It does not matter whether or not he actually did anything.
Either A. He did those things;
B. He made bad choices that led people to believing he did;
or C. He is completely innocent.
The fact is, both A and B are really really bad. And the odds are, these allegations didn't just come from no where - there is a reason they exist. The individual made mistakes, poor judgement, reinforcing the belief that he really did do these things. People don't just willy nilly go around accusing others of things this guy is being accused of. Therefore it seems more likely either A or B is true. As an organization, would you want to be associating with someone like that? Neither one of the two organizations I represent would choose to ally with someone of that nature, because, as stated: BAD PERCEPTION.
Dear furries,
You are not the police on duty, you are not judges in a courtroom, and currently you are not sitting in a jury either. Maybe, just MAYBE going around referring to somebody as a "rapist" when there is no evidence that there was a conviction, no evidence that there was a court hearing, and no evidence that a police report was even filed, isn't a very appropriate or good thing to do. Obviously you're free to continue to go around white knighting, assuming, and slandering, but maybe you should be looking at the real height of your high horses since the slander is pretty friggen' immoral too.
If you're so upset that your threatening and abusive messages left in public journals were hidden, and a 24 hour suspension given to you for your display of immaturity, then go ahead, leave the site. If you're upset that the (non-paying) developer job was given to somebody popular who has a not so great reputation surrounding his personal life instead of some blood-donating, orphan-feeding, super-nun on a (free) website (that you don't even pay for!) that likely even provides you a good percentage of your income (without asking for anything in return), then go ahead, leave the site. If you feel the need to throw insults, spread rumours, and generally act like an ass-hat, just don't. It's possible to boycott something, and let your opinion of why you're boycotting something be known without coming off like such a loud-mouth drama-pedalling moron.
I sincerely hope that IF the accusations are all true that the VICTIM goes to the police like they should have in the first place rather spreading the accusation (even in private) on an internet forum, and gets the help that he or she deserves rather than continuing to see all of this terrible drama over the ordeal plastered over the internet for thousands of people to see in a community that they probably enjoyed up until this point.
Most people do not get their rapists convicted (and even if they try, often the rapist ISN'T convicted)
Most people do not file police reports.
Most people do not even have a chance of it being taken care of by a court of law.
If you are unaware, most people do not do these things because; they will be told they deserve it, by their peers and by law enforcement. People may not, and often do not believe them. Are called sluts, are questioned about what they were wearing. Are asked to relive the entire occurrence in detail (which can be damn difficult). And a slue of other things. And this goes for rape victims of all sexes, genders, and sexualities. 8| There are huge chances of the rapist getting off scott-free, even if they've actually committed the crime. So between shaming, disbelief, and nothing happening anyway, plus being scared... people tend to not do anything, even after being raped, assaulted, etc.
No one left threatening or abusive messages. At least none of the ones that I initially saw hidden, and the users suspended.
I don't know about some of the others. But even people asking about it were being punished for merely asking. That doesn't make much sense.
'You don't even pay for'. People donate, and people run ads. They are technically helping pay for the site via those channels. Though how much money they give or don't give, I have no idea.
The victim didn't 'spread' the accusation. They asked 'Neer in private if they should make it public, or just keep it to themselves, as they were unsure what to do.
'Neer told them to keep quiet about it. It became 'public knowledge' when FA was hacked, and notes were leaked.
Now whether or not I should believe the victim or Zaush. IDK. I've read both accounts. I'm done thinking about it for the time being.
Neither what I said, nor what I was trying to say. But whatever.
Do you know what that product is?
That product is you. When a person buys adspace, they're purchasing exposure to the FA userbase in the hopes that that exposure will pay off in sales. The money for adspace goes back into the running of the site, which allows more adspace to be purchased.
You have a right to be treated respectfully as a vastly important part of why this site exists. Of course you don't have to care about those rights or choose to do anything about it. But you have rights.
Christ it took FA staff three years to take down the link to the broken Commission tab, do you expect them to handle money responsibly?
Regardless of whether you leave or not, you are a product.
Which is to say, there -were- people that actually knew what they were doing, and now they're all gone. It takes a special kind of person to not only get someone who works 70+ hours a week doing enterprise level IT work to VOLUNTEER their time to build a new site, and then proceed to shit all over them.
D:
Fuck you, Poe's Law.
http://benanderson89.tumblr.com/search/zaush
And I will have to take his side, because unfortunately he is supposed to be working alongside Zaush, but it's SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that even he has a strong dislike for him. I mean, one of his comments that I saw waaay before, said something about Zaush basically working on an entirely separate coding team from him and the two other pre-existing coders. I could tell he, and the other coders were not very happy with Zaush being around.
Second off, there is of course a degree of drama involved in this issue, but it is people who made rude, disrespectful, unhelpful comments that are causing it. NOT people deciding to voice their concerns, and NOT people deciding to leave. Again, please do not belittle those who choose to take themselves elsewhere. Would it not be more concerning and rude if the artists you dearly loved up and left without any warning at all? I would think, if you don't care whether they leave or not, you shouldn't bother caring about the journals and just delete them. There are bigger issues at hand here, and I understand it may be annoying to some, but it is belittling the issue at hand, as well.
Third off, whether anyone is guilty of something or not, it is just too vague a subject to quell either way. I have seen posts, comments, journals, etc on both sides. Both have their points. At the end of the day, though, can you REALLY say this person is lying or not? Unfortunately, no. It was a shady event to begin with. Normally, this would not be the business of anyone except those involved. Unfortunately, Zaush HAS this connection to him. Even with him being innocent, it is undeniable he has done questionable actions. It is also common knowledge to those working with him what his reputation is. At the end of the day, it was just a poor choice to decide to have him on your team. I don't even KNOW anything about business, and I can already tell you this is the most unsuccessful decision you could have made! Especially, as I've commented on this matter before, when trying to save face.
Administration, everyone's eyes are on you. Many are already fed up with you over the week's downtime. Everyone in the know, or with a vague idea of your reputation, is fed up with the continuous lack of follow through, of past scandals, of just so many bad choices and decisions. At this point in time, you have to be flawless. You have to stop and think 'have this guy I know can code and is convenient work on rewriting FA so everyone will stop bitching about that, even though he has a bad reputation and past drama surrounding him' OR 'find someone professional, clean rep, and maybe take a bit longer getting it organized to really work on a positive site revamp'--heck, even trying an application process through your users, pretty much ANYTHING. How could you NOT have realized this would blow up in your face?
And, just, how you tried to handle it. How you silenced people, suspended/banned users with no previous offense just trying to share information or ASK about it? WHAT were you THINKING? This community is smart and very large! You can't expect to be able to silence it like that. And you shouldn't even TRY to silence your community. Oppression does nothing good for anyone. It makes people react more, try to be louder.
What you should have done, if you felt Zaush was really that important to your team, was to address it BEFORE hand. Or, dang, the first couple times someone brought it up even. If you had been open about this subject, that you are aware of his reputation, believe him to be innocent, and feel he is good for your team despite this, just, gosh. Things would have been miles better. People could have disagreed, they could have decided to leave. But at least you were honest. At least you would have been forthcoming about it all. Instead you sweep it under the rug! Argh!!!
....Though I am getting off the point I wanted to make. Obviously it's all in the past, and saying 'shoulda' solves nothing. Forgive me for beating a bit of a dead horse there, I'm a little worked up.
But I would perhaps still like to point that out to the viewers who think this is all drama, it's not. It's unjustified silencing, it's cruelty, and it's extremely important to a lot of people.
What I would like to say to the staff, as a personal opinion, is that I feel it would perhaps be best to remove Zaush simply because of this being an issue at all--especially such a big one. I feel it is the only thing you could do to get those who left to want to stay/come back. It would show that you got the message, realize how uncomfortable it makes people, and would be in a way admitting a wrong. I would also suggest unbanning/suspending those that truly did not deserve it. Wanna save face? Own up to bad decision making.
In the end, whether you decide to keep him or not, is of course entirely up to you. But it will be such a bad message, I think, if you do.
Either way, it is too late for many users. There have been enough past discretion to completely drive people away for good with this response. (Including, eventually, myself.) I understand that is probably nothing to you, and I understand FA will go on in the end no matter what. But it will be lesser because of all of this. This moment will forever tarnish your history, and I greatly wish to stress to remember this in your future.
Anyway, thank you for allowing me to share my opinions on this subject. If these reach you at all, I hope it in some way results in some good.
I saw your post below and I agree with your views there, as well.
This isn't even a matter about whether someone was forced into something they wanted to or not (forgive me, I am reluctant to throw a hefty and sensitive word around, but we all know what I'm talking about anyway). It has become a problem about how the staff handles things. A BIG problem. And it's just... things have been handled so bad, for so long. And so many just do not realize this. It's resulting in so much disrespect on both ends and THAT is what I truly hate to see. All this issue needs is the administration taking some gosh darn time to consider the ramifications for their actions IF this site and its users are really in any way important to them.
Because, to me, it honestly just feels like the staff really doesn't care at all. They only try to 'fix' things AFTER its been shoved in their nose a million and one times. It feels disrespectful to their users and just aaaaa;;;
It really bothers me, seeing that sort of attitude/lack of proper reaction.
It makes me entirely uncomfortable, and I know it's the same for many others.
No one WANTS to leave here, but they're making it hard for people to want to stay more. 8(
FA has a bad rep going for them. If they wanna salvage any rep they have left, they should let Zaush go for even if he's a good artist and dragoneer's buddy, his shady background doesn't allow for those using the site to be comfortable. Plus there's others suited for the job that are better.
Plus, it didn't help there was generally years of dissatisfaction. This just made the balloon pop even harder.
I applaud you.
Thank you for putting, pretty much, all my feelings on this into words.
♥
And the subject is way too serious to be laughed at and ridiculed, no matter if he is innocent or not. That is highly unprofessional.
On an aside, I must admit I find it kinda unique that you claim to want off the 'drama train' given the (in my opinion) very aggressive tone of your comments. I think if you would like to see less drama, you should try being more positive! That's just me, though.
Anyway, I hope I cleared that up!
You win.
The site is losing a lot of users right now. The first order of business is to patch that wound up by yanking the zaush dagger out. I do not care what your personal feelings about Zaush and the drama surrounding him is, but it cannot be denied that that drama is one of the central most reasons people are pissed and leaving right now. Honestly, if it was mostly anyone but him, people would just be saying "what's going to come out first, HL3 or this?" Pull him from the project, and people will forget why they were even mad in the first place. There are still people who are maybe willing to help with the project. Hell, if you're feeling real ballsy, you can hire a professional. Someone outside the fandom who doesn't carry a train load of drama with them.
Dragoneer, here is where I need you to do some work. It might sound scary, but I need you to go down to Staples and pick up some sticky notes. When there is something really really important that you need to remember, write it down and put it next to your computer. Know what, fuck it, I'll send you the sticky notes. Pm me your address and I'll have those bad boys flying to your house first class.
Nanuk buddy, mind if I call you Kyle? Kyle, you're the PR guy here and let me tell you that you are off to the roughest start I have ever seen. Put out a journal stating that the Administration apologizes for the suspensions/bans, that it was overline, blah blah blah and whatnot. You don't even have to actually mean any of it!
I'm going to call you Team Zaush. Guys, I have seen you guys talk about the rape stuff far far more then Team Not-Zaush has. Hell, I've seen people bring it up when the subject wasn't even on that. I've also seen some of you say some pretty fucking disturbing stuff about the subject. Tone that down, it makes it kind of hard to stay Neutral. And both of you, TZ and TNZ, I've seen some of you harassing people for leaving or not leaving. Have some respect for where people want to go for their spanking material.
I think that would be a good start, but they don't have to follow my advice, just like I don't have to eat this turkey sandwich. But I'm going to because I bought it.
*quiet, but heartfelt applause*
Enjoy the fuck out of that turkey sandwich.
/furries.
It is being handled terribly.
And the only "recent issue" I'm having is still the fact you guys called your thing "Project Phoenix". XD
by encouraging users to throw fearful fits over members who were banned for being
"accused of sexual misconduct"
"So did you hear about the new transformers? It looks pretty awesome!"
Im not taking any specific sides, so how can anyone be hurt by my decision?
I personally think that leaving FA won't solve very much either. I mean... you guys want this guy gone, so instead of saying or doing something, you just... pack up and go somewhere else? What does that teach him? That he wins? What we SHOULD be doing, is uniting, and fighting together for a common cause.
But.
I stand neutral, because I don't like ANY of what's going on here, very much. Nothing I've read in here, even spread light on any new news.
Everything I've read so far, has just been recaps of past conversations, only paired with the flinging of nasty, rabid insults.
Not to mention everyone is fighting with each other now. Is this all what we really wanted?? To quarrel amongst our own kind?
Maybe I want people to stop, NOT because I think this "drama" should simply just be forgotten about --
but because the way we're all acting is not solving very much.
Plus.... it really is lagging the site. Like, a lot.
I don't know if anybody else noticed that, but I certainly did....
I do agree with you, though, that neutrality is being targeted pretty nastily, and I am a person who is actually in favor of leaving.
I think people are just so tired of dealing with furaffinity that leaving for Weasyl is simply a more realistic way of having a change than expecting the admins to act on the problem.
I literally had to delete a journal earlier, because I posted about my neutrality, hoping that it would just be left at that.
But of course I had that oooooone commenter, who just HAD to mention the rape, and then continue to further bash my decision.
It's just like... you can leave. I honestly don't care at this point. I have a Weasyl too, so I won't be missing much.
But at the same time, if you don't want to leave, I won't patronize you for that, either. Your choice is your choice. It's that simple.
I just don't understand WHY neutrality is being treated like a crime, though.
People keep making this horrid accusation that anyone who's neutral MUST OBVIOUSLY support Zaush, secretly.
But that's just... god, no. That's an awful thing to think.
I don't know for sure whether he is guilty or not, but either way, I've heard nasty things, and I certainly DO NOT support his alleged behavior.
And I mean that on the levels of not just the rape accusations, but also that he's been making vile jokes about it all.
Even if he's innocent (and Im NOT saying he is), he still seems like a jerk.
I think the problem is that sexual harassment it's an extremely important and sensitive topic to many. It triggers a lot of people, and sometimes these people might read a moderately neutral comment as a strong statement, precisely because it's so important to them. (I count myself in this group, and I have been having to make a lot of effort to control myself and not to call a bunch of people on the comments they have made, and how harmful they can be read as).
On the other hand, many others don't understand the importance of the topic and trivializes it, sometimes without even realizing it.
I agree that generalizing is wrong, on whichever side (actually on whichever argument, generalizing is a surefire way to kill dialogue). It's also very important to keep an eye on how things are worded.
It's an extremely delicate argument, and I've recently read people on both sides acting and reacting pretty horribly.
HOWEVER, as much as I do relate, and realize that many others do too, I still don't want to pry in too much.
I mean... think of it this way. Zaush and Dragoneer, and even the woman who was the so-called victim.... they're not just artists. They're not just people who are limited to a site on the internet. They have lives off of the net. REAL LIVES. And this issue has to do with their real lives.
It's trivial for me, because I want to think of the situation as such, but then I have a hard time doing so, because everyone else does.
Well, actually...
Lemme just paraphrase an older comment I made on FA's Facebook page, real quick:
"Their business is their business. It's not some dramatic story that they created for shits and giggles, for the sake of some internet fun.
It's a real, live issue, that these people are dealing with, offline. But we, the people who don't even know them, are trying to stick our noses into their territory, because we're addicted to the drama that accompanies it. How would you feel though, if this situation involved you, in place of one of them? Would YOU enjoy having a shit ton of random strangers trying to settle the score for you? Would you want these people invading your personal space, and trying to dictate a situation that they were never a part of? Because I wouldn't. We're real people, and we all demand our own space to figure things out."
I do think their business is their business, but I still don't want a maybe-maybe-not rapist, and certified douchebag to have access to my personal notes and know the administration staff will have his back covered if he does anything wrong again. <=/
I think at this point, I have more problems with FA administration than with what Zaush may or may not have done, simply because those are concrete and don't require any speculation.
SOMEONE needs to call the police. File a report. Tell somebody. ANYTHING. This is ridiculous to be taking this all this far.
I mean.... what else would you do, if you were in this situation, personally?
If I were in one of their shoes, I'd either contact authorities, or fess up to the public.
but seriously... Whats on the to do list.
just
lol
Playing that game on 1999 Mode made me hear her say that a whole lot more than I would have ever expected
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know whether or not Zaush did anything isn't actually the main issue here anymore.
In the process of it being brought to light, the administration decided to hide/silence/ban/suspend anyone who even mentioned concern over the issue. It has since spiraled completely out of control and made many feel uncomfortable here.
Even if he didn't do it, the scandal surrounding this issue has taken on a life of its own. It's no longer about what he did or did not do, its now about the way the situation is being handled.
It is being handled terribly.
That's what the biggest issue is now. Well among a good chunk of people. Maybe not everyone. Some people might still be completely stuck on Zaush.
Doesn't really pertain to FA or anything, anyway.
Let's hope it's an event worth remembering!
Anyone like that is underresearched, a terrible person, or both.
If you want reference, here's a bunch of messages between Fertility (target of the admin guy) and Dragoneer. Bonus if noticing that Dragoneer pretty much says she shouldn't say anything about the fact this guy raped her because things woud get ugly.
http://faleaks.malicelabs.com/from/Ferality/
And some talk on it from a quick google search. Do your own research.
https://forums.vivisector.org/index.....p?topic=442.20
And stop letting someone go so easy when they have such a bad rep. They do it to themselves. Being "neutral" is just a cryptic way to say you don't really care someone was raped.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u.....s/journal.html
It's really a dick thing of you to do, to label someone a terrible person just because they wont choose a fucking side.
Maybe I don't want to support Zaush. And maybe I don't know what exactly to do. It IS a touchy and perplexing subject, after all.
I just want to hear from either Zaush or Dragoneer, directly.
I want THEM to step up to the plate and say / do something worth-while.
THEY are who this issue revolves around. Not me. Not you.
YOU were not raped by Zaush. Stop acting like he secretly touched your e-junk.
Im willing to bet 75% of the commenters in here didn't even know who the hell Zaush was before this, anyway.
Cause I sure didn't. And Ive been here since 2008.
https://www.change.org/petitions/dr.....velopment-head
Thanks, I'll take a look at it.
It's real easy to see in this digital age now in how surprisingly little everyone does trust each other.
As for this on-again/off-again talk of people moving off FA to other sites... their choice.
I like FA.. and I'm staying!
I truly find Weasyl to be a way nicer place. The admins here have made too many mistakes, and this site has been rolling downhill for far too long.
I really find it a shame that so many people are being held back here because the rely on commission work as their source of income, and their potential clientele are hanging around here.
So I just sincerely hope people still move to places like Weasyl. Especially with these recent events and how poorly they have been handled.
It took a week for this kind of journal to even come up, after a week of oppressing people and trying to simply sweep it under a rug, because if its not being seen, it doesnt have to be dealt with.
I personally have decided to leave for good, and only have plans to use this site for art by friends who cant leave because they need the money, if not for them I would be perfectly happy to not ever open this site in my browser again.
Question though... am I the only one that can't quite figure out how to use Weasyl correctly, yet?
I've had an account there for a few months now, but I've been neglecting to update it because I can't seem to figure out how to get (or if there even are) icons and user links and such, to pop up whenever I upload artwork. Would you happen to know how or if that's possible?
It would also be great if I knew a wider group of people there, too. When I joined, I was like, one of the first few. heh
I actually had to get an invitation just to join. So idk, but I might just not be Weasyl-vanced enough yet. B:
https://www.weasyl.com/journal/2481.....elp-weasyl-out
There is a lot of good info on how to better use Weasyl and if you wish to hit me up there, I can help you further with using folders to manage your gallery and whatever else questions you have that I could somehow answer?? IM NO PRO and still learning a lot myself, but /likes being helpful
As far as icons go, their coding is honestly very strange. To do something like DominoII you do [](user:DominoII) on there. To make it an icon, you add an ! before the []
What's your name on Weasyl?
The journal I posted is mine so p quick link to me.
I didn't send a friend request because Im not sure how you'd feel about that ahah
But I'll certainly be sure to let you know in the future if I need help again!
(ps. your art is fantastic, aaaa)
Thank you so much, I'm glad I'll be seeing you over there! :D
<3
But getting used to Weasyl (especially link/using the icons) takes a little to get it down >u<
As far as knowing more people, I've just been commenting on a lot of profiles and art. I'm eager to start making friends over there.
But I'm definitely going to follow you over there! >u< Your art is lovely ;w;
(off topic but we have similar names >u<)
you're welcome
Have your tickets ready! The Drama-Boner-Bandwagon is now departing for Weasyl-Town and SoFurry-Ville. Fresh portions of hearsay and rumor will be served along the way!
you mean hiding comments, suspending users etc?
You knew it was going to be this goddamn bad, you wouldn't have brought on a PR guy if you hadn't.
Sadly, this means the pies will just end up flying at people's faces instead of being savored and enjoyed properly.
this issue is relevant now. While the event that sparked all of this drama may have occurred quite some time ago, there are issues that stem from it occurring presently. When the rape was brought to light, the staff of FA saw fit to hide comments, suspend, and ban users for simply discussing it and bringing it up. This is a HUGE issue, as something of this caliber needs to be addressed, not simply swept under the rug.
What more, it is highly problematic that the FA admins gave this coding job to a user with such a questionable past when there were already competent people capable of-- and even at work, it would seem-- with reconstructing the site. And while someone might question if these issues pertaining to Zaush are wholeheartedly legitimate, both he and Dragoneer have done little to save face-- both in making horrendous tweets and waiting days to even mention that they will address issues (as they have yet to actually do so.)
This isn't just about the rape. This is about the site hiring a questionable individual for a high power position they likely should not be in, as well as about the general trust between the users and admins of this site being stamped right into the mud.
All the stars must have been aligned if the only person that is qualified to do the job to bring furaffinity back up to speed is the guy with a checkered past and drama.
A person of power was accused of something in the community. Accused of a crime. So members of the community began to investigate it. Said members found information that suggested there might be some truth to the crime. So they decided to spread the information to inform the community of what may be going on.
Thus, they were banned, suspended, comments hidden.
This shows a MUCH bigger problem than the specific case at hand. Crime aside, what matters is that the community was alarmed by allegations towards an important member, and they wanted others to know about it. Whether or not you agree with their spreading of information is irrelevant--whether or not it was right or wrong, the administration should have faced it with respect. Why? Because if your community feels like you're a fair-weather leader, who only respects its members when the members are turning a blind eye to potential wrongdoings, you're doing something wrong. Totally wrong. As members in a high position, they should take such widespread concern seriously, rather than post a vague, two-sentence journal about it, far after the initial damage is done.
I am not going to go into whether or not the allegations are true, because the truth is, I don't know and it isn't specifically relevant to what I'm going to say. What I am here to say is this:
The perception of a large section of the user base is that he did something wrong. By deciding to go with him anyway, FA chooses to alienate and offend their user base. It does not matter whether or not he actually did anything.
Either A. He did those things;
B. He made bad choices that led people to believing he did;
or C. He is completely innocent.
The fact is, both A and B are really really bad. And the odds are, these allegations didn't just come from no where - there is a reason they exist. The individual made mistakes, poor judgement, reinforcing the belief that he really did do these things. People don't just willy nilly go around accusing others of things this guy is being accused of. Therefore it seems more likely either A or B is true. As an organization, would you want to be associating with someone like that? Neither one of the two organizations I represent would choose to ally with someone of that nature, because, as stated: BAD PERCEPTION.
My gripe is that this project was already rolling, with other people. Competent people. It was forgotten about by staff, and they put this guy on the case. I'm wary that he'll be terrible at writing the backend, as the frontend mockup looks like nothing special.
They create the site for our use but, as Rey pointed out, the site is nothing without its users. While catering directly to users and fans can potentially make a system wishy-washy, ignoring the word of the userbase can be extremely problematic. When there are this many people calling for action, action needs to be taken, if only to save face.
Do you know what that product is?
That product is you. When a person buys adspace, they're purchasing exposure to the FA userbase in the hopes that that exposure will pay off in sales. The money for adspace goes back into the running of the site, which allows more adspace to be purchased.
You have a right to be treated respectfully as a vastly important part of why this site exists. Of course you don't have to care about those rights or choose to do anything about it. But you have rights.
I just felt it was appropriate =v
Whether or not you have your mind made up on which side you believe, you should at least all agree that it's an extremely important issue, because it represents the community as a whole. And I don't even mean the specific topic of it--this entire issue is symbolic of a greater one.
A person of power was accused of something in the community. Accused of a crime. So members of the community began to investigate it. Said members found information that suggested there might be some truth to the crime. So they decided to spread the information to inform the community of what may be going on.
Thus, they were banned, suspended, comments hidden.
This shows a MUCH bigger problem than the specific case at hand. Crime aside, what matters is that the community was alarmed by allegations towards an important member, and they wanted others to know about it. Whether or not you agree with their spreading of information is irrelevant--whether or not it was right or wrong, the administration should have faced it with respect. Why? Because if your community feels like you're a fair-weather leader, who only respects its members when the members are turning a blind eye to potential wrongdoings, you're doing something wrong. Totally wrong. As members in a high position, they should take such widespread concern seriously, rather than post a vague, two-sentence journal about it, far after the initial damage is done.
I can understand one's desire to remain neutral in the face of all of this, but the fact that people are going backwards and insisting that it is not important is truly problematic. I feel most of the people going against the this discussion are merely sick of seeing Weasyl journals that inconvenience them .2 seconds out of the day as they remove them from their otherwise normal inbox.
This is a BIG issue. Regardless of what someone thinks of the accusations against Zaush, people need to pay attention to how the staff has acted in the face of this drama and realize that something is seriously amiss.
We could have gotten a heads-up about the prior folks volunteering to make this place work a lot better. Instead they were forgotten about by the administration after authorizing them to work on the project... and only let in on the fact that they were being replaced when they stumbled onto http://forums.furaffinity.net/threa.....riting-attempt this.
That's authentically a good read.
The main bread and butter here is the artists that post things to the site and the more that leave that help drive in ad revenue, etc this place will get to the point of being in trouble. There are alternatives out there now. Not one but atleast two or three that people can be scattered to.
What deals with Zaush as an individual is none of my personal concern; however, it does intimidate me that someone accused of such a thing would be able to access personal details and all that sort of data. But as for the alleged crime, that is for the courts to decide.
It's purely the reason that the administration, instead of confronting the problem head-on, decided to sweep it under the rug and be all 'lol what problem?'
Stay classy FA.
I've only been here for a month or so and I am already sick of this place and its "administration".
I know a few people banned on here myself over some really stupid shit. >.>
Many times these users are demonized,
and their bans are justified by vague comments like
"they are accused of sexual misconduct so they are no good for the fandom's reputation."
this is often followed by near endless waves of furries who are incapable of though for themselves
who praise the administration and are relieved that these people are no longer a threat to them
as if some how through the internet, separated by 1000s of miles they themselves or someone
they know would come under immanent harm or sexual abuse. OH the constant moaning and
wailing it grows tireless as they either recoil in fear or lobbed insults at a silenced furson they
never even met. all the while conducted by FA's Admin, praising the loyal, mindless followers.
and the Admin continues to litter the landscape with promises of threats, and people to fear
and so we must ban those people too. and slowly trained and cultivated the FA user base to
fear and abhor those which were accused, and not even necessarily "found guilty" using the same
logic as can be found in this forum here...yes... they are the enemy, vile and repugnant we must
fear them and run away as far as we can...
so now here's the irony and no one has pointed this out, and i'm extremely disappointed
that no one else sees it from my perspective:
so this culture of fear we've created on FA has turned on the master that has helped to condition its
behavior, by the mere association of what would be an incredibly juicy target instead adopted into the ranks. ALAS there was confusion the mindless scatter in multiple directions, do we fight it ? do we run away in fear as we've been trained ? do we ....defend it?????
FA ADMIN - we will ban you for being accused sexual misconduct,
FA USERS - we will attack you for being banned for being accused of said transgression
IRONY:
FA ADMIN Accused of said transgression
FA USERS - *riots* *heads explode*
----
the only solution is not an apology, but ACTION~!
1st unban ALL banned users. ALL OF THEM.
2nd suspend the program for upgrade
3rd re-evaluate the team
4th open dialouge for CANDID REAL-TALK discussion.
if we don't unban the users we are guilty of the greatest level of hypocrasy
and THAT is the only LEGITIMATE reason to leave FA, not because of some guy who you never met
supposedly did some stuff...
i don't think we should force anyone to step down or change positions that they have taken.
we're again going off of rumors on the internet. my post was only to make the CLEAR DISTINCTION
of the double-standard which is in place at Furaffinity.net today:
We BAN and target users who are not necessarily guilty, but Accused of sexual misconduct.
and then nod and agree with no real investigation into the truth. all the while calling for their
exile from the furry fandom as a whole.
Now we have someone in the same situation, again not necessarily guilty, but accused,
and instead of going with our gut and doing the routine fandom sacrifice, we decide to
investigate the truth, instead of the traditional "BAN now ask questions never" approach.
So yeah turns out he didn't rape, this person, ok y'all can debate that if you want to...
point being are we really going to believe EVERYTHING we read on the internet blindly
and continue to be a group of idiots that attack everyone accused of Rape ? is that what the
fandom has come to ? cause its almost like the ending credits of Benny hill at this point.
The REAL issue at hand is the excessive and Superficial BANs going on here at Furaffinity.net
the fact that someone is given a 2nd chance when no one else gets one, is BLATANT favoritism.
(technically a 1st chance when no one else gets a 1st chance)
THAT is the real injustice, i don't care if there was a legit rapist on staff, it doesn't
change how the administration handled this situation extremely poorly, and for that
proper restitution must be made, starting with unbanning everyone guilty of doing the same
thing that mr.x did... simply being accused.
if you leave this site for any reason other than the BANS and the hypocrasy behind them,
you have missed the point entirely, and are likely a mindless idiot...(i'm talking to you people who are have an irrational paranoid fear of a sexual preditor coming to get you and your family)
That is truly sad, my friend. Rape is one of the most serious, personal, and ruinous crimes, and we should care whether our oft-demonized community is being run by sexual predators.
Furries often claim to be one of the most tolerant and open communities around, but simply looking through the reactions to this debacle, it's apparent that we are incredibly chauvinistic, callous, apathetic, and detached from reality. We should hold our community to the highest standard—even if Zaush is innocent of these allegations, his dismissive and patronizing attitude towards victims of sexual harassment should be enough to make us seriously concerned about his appointment to a position of authority within the community.
If you do not wish to lend your support to the cause, I apologize for taking your time. It is not my intention to badger people into signing, and I won't bother you further.
Still, nothing changes.
1000 furries band together to express their disapproval in a unified voice, an unprecedented caliber of action from the furry community. Apathetic voices are quieted, and the next time action is needed, a foundation has been laid for strong, unified action.
Dragoneer ignores the petition, but perhaps other furry site owners that give a damn take notice, and take steps to ensure that this sort of thing never happens in their administration.
And hundreds, if not thousands of victims, can look and see evidence that hundreds of furries stood up for them and refused to be silent (or silenced) about this disaster. Victims who maybe thought they were in the minority and had no voice.
Doing the right thing isn't always about the most immediate, obvious result. Sometimes it's just about doing the right thing because that is the right thing to do.
So Zaush is suddenly booted from the project... ok, how did this solve what has happened, or rather have anything to do with it in the first place.
People are getting silenced because they are bringing up private affairs that should have been solved between the parties involved, not escalated into the furry tabloids that it is.
If someone truly was raped by another well their are differences in specific circumstances;
Random strangers, police, rape kit, justice.
Relationships, split apart from each other, restraining order, justice.
This isn't hard, and people shouldn't feel ashamed otherwise to do this.
However, more often than not, people claim rape after consensual sex.
In this case, there is nothing but talk. So, since nothing else was done I can't help but label as furry drama. Regardless of what is right or wrong or what happened, this is how things work. It's not likeness to potential victim or defendant, it's just more and more text on a computer screen. The more people telephone this incident around, the more lies and false information pop up. The more crap that piles up, the less actual crimes get brought to the surface.
But no, fuck all of that, my free website usage is being programmed by someone I heard rumors about. As if any of you even know these people.
You also claim that "more often than not", meaning in a majority of cases, women have consensual sex and then claim rape after the fact. I cite this study which shows that in actuality, only 0.6% of rape accusations are false. If you have any studies that you can cite which prove this number false, please share them.
The phrase "innocent until proven guilty" has been thrown around a lot in this debate, and I find this ironic because the victim's testimony, and the testimony of others who have made claims that they were harassed by Wan, are being summarily dismissed without any real reason to do so. Nothing factual is being presented to call their testimony into question.
The evidence against Zaush is not hearsay, because it is on record: first-hand reports from the victims themselves. It is freely viewable and not nearly as easy to dismiss as you claim.
I can say that I sure wouldn't want to be you guys right now. SO yeah, have fun with that.
Oooo yeah cause there is nothing like having a group tightly knit by stepping on fears and hiding opinions. Wooo-eee.
If I've posted a comment in response to yours soliciting your signature and you disagree with the intent of this petition, I apologize. It is not my intent to badger users who do not wish to take action, but merely to give concerned members of the fandom an outlet to do so.
This is a different viewpoint from my Journal because the journal was speaking from the business point of view, relating to the male individual's hiring. If the male in question manages to pull off Project Phoenix successfully, and continues to do good work, then the male involved should stay.
I also want to point out that if this HAD gone to court or the law had been involved -at all- and Dragoneer were to make his decision based on the male's criminal history - or lack thereof if it were - Dragoneer could very easily lose his entire business in a lawsuit. Look up employment law relating to criminal record.
Can we protest? Yes. For those living in the US, you have a right to freely express your opinion. I applaud everyone who exercises that right, but some I disagree with (I won't go into what or why).
All in all, I'm glad that this is drawing to a close.
If your unhappy by all means leave if it helps you, tell your watchers and friends where they can get you but stop with all this finger pointing, I nean who ever you believe just think for one moment if your wrong, now think of how bad you could hurt the people involved and the damage it can do.
I donno who's right, I donno if they both view it differently now they are older I just don't know, but all these petitions are stupid, you have no right to make them and they are just horrible. Things won't change coz you force it you need to WORK at it ( talk and don't insult people) I mean even if he goes who will take him place? Who's to say the guy/lady they take on isn't a child abuser at home? Or a hacker? God knows who anyone is!
Just let him finish the work and then respectively take him off staff.
I'm no longer getting involved in this, if both have moved on I don't wanna scrap this over to harass ether if them, please just get the work finished without anymore trouble.
I am also concerned about how people talking about this in their own personal journals have apparently had those journals removed and there have been apparently been bans as well.
Considering that there has a noticeable number of artists in my feeds that are moving away from FA despite how much FA contributes to their income that is a worrying sign in itself. This is all anecdotal granted but these are people I feel are normally reasonably level headed and they are pushing other options for contact and updates. in essence they are choosing their security and lack of faith in the administration of FA over money and to me that says something.
This after a journal about improved transparency on the site; let's just say that how this is handled will be critical in determining whether to believe this new direction and future progress and support of FA.
243 assholes completely dismissing a genuinely problematic situation as 'drama'
like, for real, fuck all yall, lmao
this shit isn't just 'drama' it is a really serious problem that shouldn't be just brushed aside of people getting their tits in a twist over nothing. dismissing it is bullshit
Anything less than removing the inept rapist from being a member of staff will result in more of the same happening. My accusation is not without research, either. After consulting both a psychologist who works with both victims and offenders, she had concluded that constant pestering for sexual interaction can and has been considered "emotional duress" and therefore nullifies consent. I have done my research on the matter with the evidence at hand, not counting the accused's pattern of being a sleazeball and sexually harassing other females whofit into his "type".
Remove him or the Weasyl Rebellion will continue.
Its kind of why employers do not hire felons. They may make them look bad.
Seeing instability in the admin group including mass banning for people over concerns, even if founded on rumor hasn't helped peoples perception that this place is run by a bunch of clowns. Most of us could care less who is doing what on the site as long as they are chosen for a mix of competence at what they do and trustworthiness not just to the admins but can be trusted with access to users private data. There are artists who depend on this site for getting commisions and income either to live on, or get through rough times. It needs to be up 100% and the admin group should be mostly invisible as they keep things running. Seeing chaos in the ranks and constant site outages is shaking their confidence this place will continue to meet their needs.
That I think is why a lot of people are slipping out the back door with their art in tow. Not so much interpersonal issues, but they are genuinely concerned for the future of this site after Decembers extended outage and this massive blow up is just signs that there are more rocky days ahead for this site.
So in short. I personally don't care what this guy did or didn't do. Its between him, her and John Q Law. Fix your damn site and put together a team that isn't a source of rancor and drama every 5 days and you will stop losing people.
http://i.imgur.com/KxLGUla.jpg
(Also I'm capping this so if I get ANOTHER temp ban despite not naming names or contacting anyone, I will have proof.)
It's so nice seeing all the apologists in this journal though.
And by nice I mean disgusting.
read it again. i think you imagined some words
That's pretty useless. you'rewelcome
I DON'T CARE
I DO NOT CARE
If you don't care don't post b-dawg
I call him a predator because he has attempted to coerce (by harassment) other women into sex acts. That means he is a predator. Do i have to cite case law where the assailant used the same motive?
the only journal you've made in four years, apparently
lol
http://i.imgur.com/KxLGUla.jpg
And with a team this small (literally one developer because his attitude chased the others away) I don't see it coming to much good.
EITHER WAY THIS IS REALLY FUNNY
MY NIPPLES ARE LIKE FUCKING DIAMONDS FROM THIS
HNNNRRRRRRRRRGH FUCK.
No wait, we should care about rumors, especially when, in this fandom, they turn out to be true half the time. Evidence has been presented before. But they were hidden. Supposedly, the victim didn't go to the police because she was unsure and was eventually persuaded not to.
With accusations of crime, I never jump to defend. I keep an open eye. I remain impartial. If stuff turns out to be true, I don't deny it based on a conflict of interest. Evidence is coming out, and it looks troubling. I don't deny evidence either.
The fact that this happens so often in this fandom is depressing. I see pictures of actual convicted child predators at cons, along with known bestialists. I won't name names. A visit to the sex offender registry website would suffice. These people have incontrovertible proof by a court of law that they comitted disgusting crimes, and people STILL jump to their defense. If that can happen, anything can.
With accusations of crime, I never jump to condemn. Keep in mind just because somebody says something, doesn't make it proof of anything. And aside from things people say, what is there to go on? Nothing...
where trouble tickets actually get dealt with
and people are migrating to it.
Why is this a bad thing?
Crimes can happen in any community, accusations can be made by whoever. You've just failed incredibly at handling the situation and the results, be your stance whatever it may be, are visible. Everything's blown up, 4 years later. Totally unresolved.
Gossip may or may not be true but what's happening right now on FA is very real.
So what now? The harm's already done and FA has lost part of its community for the atmosphere created and the very (VERY) serious accusations and rumours you have had no time to deal with because you've been too busy throwing your banhammer around and making rape jokes. Zaush is going to have a lot of shit to live with for a while. And more.
I wouldn't want to be in your place right now. This shit's ugly and you've let it develop.
Again be it true or false, if you don't take care of this shit people don't have anything here holding them back, you're just giving them reasons to move.
But if you mean what the admin should do with Zaush, considering the amount of harm his mere presence causes, he wouldn't be allowed to stay. Even if it is unfair, people don't a shit what is fair because he has as much proof as the victim(s). This issue is so dated, all the DNA proof is gone. And now even himself has nothing to defend himself with but screencaps.
hahahaha holy shit
do you even read what you type
"The FBI estimates that only 37 percent of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26 percent of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials."
Do you know why that is?
Because they're scared. Because they're fucking terrified that no one will believe them.
And look what happened. People don't believe her.
At least online if you open up about this shit you know there will be people around the world in similar situations, or who have been, who understand and can offer support.
Rape is a SERIOUS CRIME. If you or someone you know has been raped PLEASE GO TO THE POLICE. Don't listen to this guy. GO TO THE POLICE.
Think about it: you get sexually assaulted... are you going to post about it online rather than going to the police?
Furries are all about not wanting to be judged, and then they judge the hell out of their own kind. And based on what? what somebody posted online?
I am ashamed of this community...Judgement and name calling based on pure speculation is something I never thought I'd see here.
Wow.
If I came forth with physical and legal evidence that some other site members committed a felony, I'd be told I just made shit up and doctored the evidence.
Meanwhile if I claimed a member of FA or dA's staff groped me at a con neither of us were at I'd be believed.
I've been seeing your comments and opinions pop up here a lot, and if it's alright, I would like to share my opinions back on this matter, and discuss it a little with you.
First off, please try to refrain from mass grouping people together. It is a little insulting, and it is showing a 'quick to judge' tendency, as well. There are many, many different views on this subject, and many people are simply showing concern. A lot of people are doing their best NOT to judge.
It is also difficult to say what someone who has been sexually assaulted, abused, or raped would choose to do. There is a lot of personal trauma involved, and just because someone chooses to discuss it with people whose opinion they value online, over going to a stranger just because he has a badge, is not something to be looked down on either. Whether a person chooses to come forward or not is entirely their choice. Should they choose NOT to, though, does not equate nothing having happened. Please understand, I am not trying to say something DID happen, or that Zaush is guilty of anything. I am speaking on a general stance here.
As far as if Zaush is guilty or not? I couldn't tell you 100%, and it isn't my place to string it along anyway. What is very much undeniable, though, IS that he shows a history of being pushy and rather... unpleasant. Perhaps people are taking this too far, to mean he is guilty of an actual crime. But, either way, it doesn't mean people shouldn't feel concerned--or aren't ALLOWED to feel concerned about the matter. Even if he doesn't have access to personal information--which is a worry of many--it doesn't 100% guarantee he'll never get his hands on it, either. Simply put, he has a reputation either way. This, justifiably, makes some nervous.
What is also, equally not okay as quick-firing to call someone a rapist, is jumping the gun and banning/suspending someone w/o any previous offenses, without ANY warning, and as far as some of the comments read go? Without even really being harassive, in my opinion. Granted this is a private-run site, it is free, and the administration is entirely within their rights to do as they please on their own website. But as a service, and as a place thriving only because it has a community, it is not okay from a user's standpoint.
It would have been in everyone's best interest if the staff had given out warnings or some information on each decision to ban/suspend they made. Instead they didn't, and instead they made themselves look foolish and as though they were attempting to censor their community unjustifiably.
So, anyway, I just wanted to make it clear that the community is not the only one at the wrong here. If the community is being shameful that is your opinion--and perhaps a good portion of them are (for what, though, our opinions may differ on)--but it is also pretty clear the staff isn't doing so well, either. Please keep that in mind, and thank you for your time.
Really? No, just no. This is not how you convince me to be on your side, and quite frankly, i can't even go to that side now anymore because it's gotten to out of hand in a witch-hunt sort of fashion. To me that is just desperate and disrespecting, what's even more is that they are people that I like as artists. (and before anyone say anything, yes I've gotten rid of those psychopaths)
Look, I'll say it here. As a male, I was sexually assaulted by a aggressive female that I was dating in Tech School (I was in that state of trying to figure out if I was gay or stiraght way back then, in order to not piss off my family who was largely homophobic/religious) and almost lost everything thanks to the DON'T ASK DON'T TELL law because of her crass "this guy's a faggot because he didn't do anything to me and was submissive before we broke up" response to everyone in public (along with boring cure therapies/whatnot). But, even if it's hard for me to say this when society sees it as "beta male" style, I've grown past it and moved on to become a better person. Unlike some people, (no offense to them), I don't hold anything against Zaush because I know nothing about his personal life and quite frankly I don't care about digging into it (nothing against him). When other rape victims try to push me to hate Zaush when they are in this aggressive mode, It's pushing me to the point where i can't support them at all.
After looking at everything, I just want to go back to my artwork/enjoying art, because quite frankly I can't even make a sound opinion if there is too much "he said she said" opinions all over the place. To the good people that have left, oh well, e361 will post their stuff (maybe tumblur too). To the others, can we just stop please? I see too many people using rape victims (mostly women) here as a shield, and I've surprisingly gotten it to in private also (to which I want nothing to do with it).
I'll just sum it all before someone belittles me here: I just want art and porn, I just want to make friends with people here. I don't want anymore drama/death threats flung at me for not taking any side on this matter. I do not want to be used a a shield against someone I do not know personally. I don't want to be associated with people who think starting a crusade will start anything. I do not want to be labeled as an evil person for being neutral on this. I want to enjoy FA as an artiste that has furthered my hobby in anthro artwork. and I do not want to go to weasyl just because all the cool kids are doing (there has to be a good reason for me to go anywhere).
And as a result of that, we have so many people going totally crazy and irrational in assuming that everyone that doesn't immediately join in their hate campaign against him, and also against the site he is doing a few days work for, must also be a rapist and need to be hunted down and killed?
I reckon FA might be better off without those people, I'll be honest, if the sorts of things I'm reading here are an accurate representation of the whole state of the fandom right now, I almost feel sorry for Weasyl having all those people heading over there, whilst the ones that go, oh more drama, not my business, are staying right here.
That's why people are fucking terrified of speaking up about that shit, because they're scared that without a fucking feature length video recording of the situation then no one will believe them.
Why does no one accuse the other of being a liar? Why is it always the potential victim that's the one that's lying?
Shit.
The answer is obvious.
Plus your cursing is real cool. I like that.
Thanks for being a rape apologist, real classy.
(also, fuck off)
And a pro-tip for you: try being a bit more civil. Otherwise you come off as uneducated.
Noone's accusing one person or the other of lying, we're saying that we don't know, and can't know, and therefore it's not fair to get involved when we don't have any facts to back up anything.
Either way, there's no evidence, is it still fair to base your entire opinion of not just the person, but a company he happens to be doing a small amount of work for, on the possibility that it happened?
One person, fine I'll give you that. But others? That kinda shows that it's more than just some random accusation.
It's like a tidal wave of drama that doesn't even listen to the sources they're quoting. How does that make any sense? I'm just curious, thanks!
"I tried to clarify that, but I doubt it will matter at this point. When I told Sciggles of this, I left out names... and she mentioned that Zaush tried to do something like this to even her. But she mentioned when she said no, despite him keeping asking and insisting, he backed off.
So I can't verify it on every instance, but I didn't agree with Zaush and the accusations concerned me. I just didn't want her getting burned."
So someone is lying or just can't remember.
That happened for me when, after an outage of 7 days, one month ago, here was the administration's total response to it, as far as I ever saw:
https://twitter.com/furaffinity/sta.....70552139366400
AAAAND WE'RE BACK!
My reaction? 'That's it? That's all you have to say? Wow.' Seriously, screwed up artists' income in the weeks before Christmas and losing them the window to create things for commissioners for holiday gifts, very little in the why it happened in the first place...start to finish, this. Not even an apology for the inconvenience. I said a month ago, 'Furaffinity is free to use, not to lose', and that "hearts and minds" debate was laid to rest over a month ago. Artists were convinced THEN.
Unprofessional, dismissive of the userbase, and oh by the way, they were down for a week before all that. Folks, you don't need this drama. It doesn't even need to be taken elsewhere, because it's not worth caring about. You don't need to see the administration fix anything, and the people who have 'exiled themselves to Siberia' are happily basking in the warm Maui sun and they're not looking back, because you know what? This crap isn't there.
To the hundreds who still wish to believe that 'They'll come back, they always come back'? That only works with a monopoly. There are three major competitors to FA now. It's not a monopoly anymore.
The only question each reader really needs ask themselves now is whether they care to be part of it or not, but let's stop pretending that the alternatives aren't there, already. Not only are they there, but they're thriving.
Whatever may or may not have happened, whether anyone is or isn't guilty of anything, whether anyone's character is in question or not.
The truth is indiscriminate, it doesn't care if you think you're innocent, or guilty, or if you think one point or another matters about something.
It doesn't care if you are responding emotionally to something, or whether you're cold and distant from it. The only thing it ever cares about?
What actually happened. Many in the FA community are claiming to know one way or the other, and a lot of emotions are being ignited.
For what? The truth doesn't care about what you *think* happened, it cares about what *did* happen, and we do not have all of the facts.
Why then are so many people making the judgement call without all of the facts? The fact is that guilt or innocence is something for authorities,
people qualified to investigate claims like this, who make a living off solving these puzzles, they are the ones who will make the final judgement.
I understand people's emotions and emotional responses to this kind of thing, it's incredibly serious and incredibly sensitive, but we must not lose sight of seeking the truth,
not just what someone says is the truth, but what actually is true, whether it hurts or angers people or not.
"Well why don't you just go look it up?"
Everybody's pointing at each other but nobody seems to actually have anything concrete.
This is what the administration should have done a week ago.
Anything less than that proves the inadequacy of this website's administration.
And what about the victim, are we supposed to shame her ?
I am not going to go into whether or not the allegations are true, because the truth is, I don't know and it isn't specifically relevant to what I'm going to say. What I am here to say is this:
The perception of a large section of the user base is that he did something wrong. By deciding to go with him anyway, FA chooses to alienate and offend their user base. It does not matter whether or not he actually did anything.
Either A. He did those things;
B. He made bad choices that led people to believing he did;
or C. He is completely innocent.
The fact is, both A and B are really really bad. And the odds are, these allegations didn't just come from no where - there is a reason they exist. The individual made mistakes, poor judgement, reinforcing the belief that he really did do these things. People don't just willy nilly go around accusing others of things this guy is being accused of. Therefore it seems more likely either A or B is true. As an organization, would you want to be associating with someone like that? Neither one of the two organizations I represent would choose to ally with someone of that nature, because, as stated: BAD PERCEPTION.
Personally, I felt pretty uneasy when I heard that 'there's a sex offender coding the website'... and then I found out it was Zaush they're talking about.
As someone who never really got into the Zaush soap opera back in the day I was always skeptical of the accusations - I'm far too used to the he-said-she-said scenario, and honestly he does not strike me as that kind of guy.
Anyway, I hope you guys can help settle the moods because I, for one, am lookin' forward to seeing changes made to FA.
Until someone shows me an official document PROVING he's a sex offender.. I'm sorry but.. he's innocent. That's why we INVENTED laws as being unbiased and logic-based. The internet is why we invented laws, really o.o
You really compared this to the Birther movement?
You know , ironically , you people defending him are closer to the birthers because you keep asking the victim to provide you with documents that proves he's a rapist.
- I'm not American, and I couldn't give a rats arse whether Obama is Hawaiian, muslim or from Mars, and the whole birther movement strikes me as the silliest political movement ever created.
- I'm sorry but when you make SUCH an accusation to someone you BETTER have some evidence. Don't have enough evidence? That's what the law is for - make a formal complaint, start adressing issues, try to PROVE to the world he is what you say he is.
I value the alleged vicitm's opinion as much as I value the alleged 'rapist''s, but the truth is without evidence or an investigation of some sort we could all just label eachother as we see fit.
How about you? As far as I'm aware you're a communist spy working for the Taleban. Would you really think it's fair if that's what you started being treated as just because I posted those words online?
Law is the absence of emotion in a logical quest for the truth - there's a reason LAW is what convicts people, not here-say and gossip. None of us (well, most of us, considering it's FA) don't like rape. We abolish it. It's a disgusting, selfish act of hedonism that should be punished in the most serious manner, but if let's not let our opinion turn us into a mob of orderless idiots out on a witch hunt everytime the word 'rapist' gets mentioned.
Remember how many Americans died during the cold war because a jealous neighbour didn't like the fact they couldn't afford a BMW and called them out as 'Communists'.
History, people. It repeats itself as much as our ignorance allows it to.
Moving on with life now.
I am not going to go into whether or not the allegations are true, because the truth is, I don't know and it isn't specifically relevant to what I'm going to say. What I am here to say is this:
The perception of a large section of the user base is that he did something wrong. By deciding to go with him anyway, FA chooses to alienate and offend their user base. It does not matter whether or not he actually did anything.
Either A. He did those things;
B. He made bad choices that led people to believing he did;
or C. He is completely innocent.
The fact is, both A and B are really really bad. And the odds are, these allegations didn't just come from no where - there is a reason they exist. The individual made mistakes, poor judgement, reinforcing the belief that he really did do these things. People don't just willy nilly go around accusing others of things this guy is being accused of. Therefore it seems more likely either A or B is true. As an organization, would you want to be associating with someone like that? Neither one of the two organizations I represent would choose to ally with someone of that nature, because, as stated: BAD PERCEPTION.
Life still moves on though. They can keep going on and on about things (which I am sure some people still are, but who am I to say what people are still doing. I wasn't there), but there is no reason anyone else really should be. Or needs to be.
Forums.furaffinity.net/threads/907176-2013-rewriting-attempt
I've been here for years.
And the people who are watching me encourage me to draw more; to entertain them.
They are important to me, and they are my world.
I'm not going to trot off due to personal issues regarding someone else's life, and that is no way supporting them.
Simply because I choose to ignore it.
:)
As far as the public has addressed this, it's obviously rather appauling, even for such a sensitive issue as this. But even then, to brush it off as another "drama" from the fandom itself is not smart, either.
This dilemma does seems like something at least worth the investigation, if at least for the safety of the people in the FA community. But other than that, this is along the lines of "a mountain out of a molehill".
Hopefully, there is an understanding of my expressed opinions, but not suprising to me would be the people that refuse to do so...>.>
Talk is free.
GO NOW!!!
Berry eatin'
I don't exactly mind who is the admin. I don't care about the drama either.
But an admin should know what is the best for the community and step that way to be more effective.
Just handle people as you want to be handled!
I would like to ask the next questions:
When the site will be secured? (Leaked notes, globally collected comments etc...)
How can be killed a HDD by copy? And why this is the only solution usually for problems? :/
If AZ has no time why don't allow other and experienced people to work on the codes?
Why the site is protected and why the source code is so secret? -FA owners should write a contract for applied dev(s) to protect the main code.
What does XY know better with ~2 million pageviews than other who are "never heard on this site" and living from coding?
Why is the global "Read-Only Mode"? (I want to point to that other sites are disabling comments or just an other part when they're fixing bugs to lowering traffic)
Where is all of the unkept promises? :(
By the way, I wonder how many comments a journal page could possibly hold on FA. Shall we find out? xD
It's time to go on an adventure.
Considering the fuckton of posts and tweets about it in the last few days.
I'm just astonished that FA's staff never saw this coming, despite 9 years of experience... It just makes no sense... unbelievable.
Is there even a PR department ON FA? I fucking doubt it. If there is, it's probably more of Dragoneer's "friends".
I will stick around long enough to hear Dragoneer's excuses in the next journal, but until Zaush and the possible dog molester are off FA staff, I won't be part of this continuing stupidity.
already the premature apparent support for someone who is an alleged rapist from some staffers before the legal system worked its course is disheartening
And yes, the support of a possible rapist is just... fucking mind blowing. Ugh. If he's innocent, no one needs to come to his rescue. If he's guilty, well, karma will come around eventually. In the end, just leave him alone or don't go near him.
That's just my impression of the situation though. But perhaps it would make people feel safer using FA and help calm the fire if they saw a new or updated policy put in place that would take better action regarding serious allegations like this.
Just my thoughts though. It's clearly a very sensitive issue for many.
I dont know ANYONE who would keep someone on staff while there pending any such SERIOUS criminal trial and knowing that there guilt is fully possible and keeping them on active staff is ridiculous
i also give a word of warning to anyone in a high position publicly trying to take a side here, it can seriously backlash on you, loosing trust from your fellow employees/volunteers and the community
Look around you, look how broken the community here has become because of the decisions made.
And you guys don't even know why, do you? The core reasons? You're just gonna sum it up as drama and leave it at that.
Dear FA Users,
Go **** yourselves. Allegations are baseless... blah blah blah. He has lots of experience.. blah blah blah He has no access blah blah blah.
Sincerely,
Go **** yourselves.
Owner.
Deleting posts and banning people just make the situation worse and makes it look like a conspiracy. FA is starting to look very bad right now.
They did what they could to remove rumor comments so they wouldn't have ended spreading like wildfire. Odds are the suspended people posted it multiple times even after being told to stop.
The following are circumstances where employment at will may not apply.
Exceptions to Employment at Will
Collective Bargaining Agreements - Employees covered by union or association agreements often have contractual provisions which stipulate when and how an employee can be fired. Unions usually have a well-defined appeals process as recourse for members who believe that they have been wrongly discharged.
Individual Employment Contracts - Workers in industries like sports and the media often have an employment contract which outlines the terms of employment and conditions for discharge.
Public Policy - Most states recognize that certain public policy guidelines limit the exercise of employment at will by employers. For example, employers are prohibited from firing employees who have filed claims for worker compensation, workers who have reported legal transgressions by their employer or employees who refuse to violate laws as they carry out their duties.
Statutory Protections - State and federal laws protect employees from being discriminated against in hiring or firing. Categories of protection include race, national origin, gender, age, religion, pregnancy, family status, veteran status, disability, genetic makeup and sexual orientation (in some states).
Implied Contracts - Well defined company policies on termination, which are clearly outlined in employment manuals, provide protection for some employees. Verbal assertions by management that employees will not be fired without just cause may also hold up in a few instances though these are often hard to prove.
Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing Exception - Eleven states (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, California, Delaware, Idaho, Massachusetts, Nevada, Montana, Utah, Wyoming) consider exceptions to employment at will based on the broad principles of good faith and just cause. Employees in these states can put forward law suits if they believe that their termination was unjust.
So if mob mentality forces a termination, which is what the case seems to be going for, it does break an implied contract or even a fair dealing exception. Then again we do not know what kind of contract or policy is in place with the administration staff on FA.
A very relevant article about what happens when you try to censor information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbra.....reisand_effect
FA IS BUYING ME A NEW MOUSE OR I'M LEAVING FOR -site name redacted- GOD DAMMIT.
I'm not really a furry so I have been gone for quite the period of time on Tumblr and all that e_e'
(All I understand from these messages is that there's something about rape and furry stuff??)
Remember that massive exodus from DA to FA, because FA rebuked DA's censorship? Whoops. What is going on with this police state BS?
Better not ruin my fantasy world/religion/business/lifestyle/etc...
Forever and ever, amen.
I'm sick and tired of hearing about this thing.
Why can't everyone understand FA is their on little world. Don't worry about other stuff like the admins past history and such. You're here this is your on world why are you guys going crazy for something that was not brought up when it actually happened and now that the guy is actually trying to help FA out and let it become better since it has kept the same format through out the years. Are you jealous? Are you upset that it wasn't you who got chosen? Fender and the others are trying their best to actually have something for you guys to enjoy instead of having it to crash every other login the least you guys can do is acknowledge the fact.
I personally don't know any of the admins or Zaush himself I'm just glad that FA is actually modernizing itself and that there will be better features for us to enjoy. This drama is just making it a lot worst in fact. Every time I log in I don't want to because I know there are going to be tons of journals talking about it. If the girl wanted to say something why didn't she say it when it happened and why now?
It's ridiculous...
It would be nice if everything just stopped. At the moment I don't care about it it's none of my business but I enjoy FA and I want you guys to at least understand that. Admins you guys are doing an awesome job can't wait for the new feature and the new FA. I hope this issue stops soon it's really getting out of hand.
2- There's been years of hiding dust under the rug . People are tired of this
3- FA is the biggest (for how long still , we'll have to see but I digress) website devoted to furries , thus the one with the most visibility . Having someone who is suspected of rape in charge of coding and a known zoophile AS WELL on staff is simply horrendous PR. Do you think people would still buy from Apple if they learned that the CEO was a child molester?
4- You are literally selling away your integrity (however little you have left) over a shiny new UI / This is pretty screwed up BTW.
Oh and also, the new UI isn't even really shiny at the moment, looks like a poor example thrown together in a hurry. Can't smell one ounce of creativity from a design that's meant to be for an art website, given the amount of techie furs, artists and web designers within the community it's kinda worrying that it's that bad.
That's why I have my own little world and they have there's
I keep out of it and continue to do what I do and they what they do
Shush the rumors , protect the accused , censor the critics
She still should have reported it the moment it happened if she was that concerned.
The staff hid the issue because they knew once it got out this was going to happen constantly
And also please google rape statistics thank you.
And I don't have to check statistics I've been in situations where my best friend has been there
So just stating thoughts on the situation.
Also, there is much embarrassment and victim blaming that comes with expressing these situations.
But instead of being scared or afraid why not try doing something about it?
My friend did something about it she just got tougher and she's no longer looking back at the past
At least they have the strength to continue instead of lingering in the past
Moving on is always a good thing
I'm not being heartless like I said I'm just stating what I thin like everyone else in the journal
Not starting an argument (which opinions usually do lead to that) just talking that all.
I'm not mean or trying to sound like a girl like I said my friend has been through that and it felt like hell
But I do hope that this doesn't happen again and I do hope that the admins decide to be a bit more open with their members
In order to not cause trouble.
That's all I'm hoping for and also that this is fixed as soon as they can
2. Of course there is I'm not saying there isn't. And yes people are tired of this annoying thing. We are furries we all have our secrets
3. Who knows, don't care it's none of my business. People just need to face the fact that this is the internet and you don't know the person who you're talking to or what they have done on the other side unless everyone releases news of it and rumors start spreading like a fucking plague.
4. I'm not selling my integrity to anyone just saying that it's awesome that the site is changing.
I'm not on anyone's side it's just getting a bit out of hand and ridiculous.
It would be nice for a bit of respect as well you know. Just stating my opinion like every other fur is doing :/
Yes , except mine are not about MOLESTING PEOPLE OR ANIMALS!
"Well, maybe they're enrolled in school to be a physician and are studying the bones god why don't you guys mind your own business"
So that why I said I do't know anyone of the staff
they have their on world
What's up? >8(
By the way, is there any popcorn left?
If you want to catch up on the furry version of game of thrones, you mostly just need to skim the stuff going on in these links.
What do you mean he just forgot?
Remember how successful Project Ferrox was? Well introducing Project Phoenix!
Give us some time so we can think of a way to Weasyl out of this snafu.
I really hope the bbcode works. It doesn't work 80% of the time.
Welp. The bbcode works just fine (although the last link took me right back to this same blog post). But all I can really say is, more furry drama. This will work, seeing as I've been in a sour mood lately and needed something to make me laugh.
But seriously, what the actual hell, FA.
Thanks someone's throwaway account for posting this.
and a PR team too because Dragoneer is just coming in like a giant wrecking ball that would put Miley Cyrus to shame.
But well said my friend, well said. But I think a wrecking ball is a little lighter.
Oh nevermind me i'm just singin here :3
Srsly now
Okay~ i guess, we should all know both sides of a story before starting pointing fingers~ I think this will be nice ^_^
This is really none of our business. We're not even sure of what really happened, the details are pretty vague, and we are online afterall. Shit gets all jumbled up from person to person. I think people just jumped the gun really and the rumors took off from there. But in all actuality, it's none of our business. This potential topic is a serious one, and we don't need a bunch of people posting journals about it and blowing it up into something humongous. It's probably embarrassing for the people involved, and is stressing them out to the point of no return. We weren't there, we don't have conclusive evidence of anything. I feel like this is ALL a serious breach of privacy on all ends :(
I'm trying to limit what I say here, because I don't want to sound like I'm taking anyone's side in this, because I'm not involved. Nobody here is. It's their problem, and they don't need a community raging on and on about it. Let them solve it amongst themselves. This has been my one and only comment on the matter, and I'm going to continue doing what I was doing before, and enjoy creating art and posting it to the site.
Whether or not someone believes the rape occurred, the fact remains that when users tried to bring the issue to light and wanted to discuss it-- the site admins deleted comments, suspended, and banned users rather than actually addressing the issue. This is severely problematic, as it takes all trust between the FA staff and its users and throws it directly in the can.
Also, we're talking about someone with a less-than-perfect record now in quite the position of power for this site. Zaush doesn't even seem like that great of a coder, from what people have voiced-- there were even other people (potentially more competent people) on the job before he was appointed the position.
This isn't just about the rape-- it's about trust.
The notes in question are being posted by Rapeadvocate by copy+paste since the site that has the notes from the FA leak is down due to traffic.
Months worth of unsolved trouble tickets.
Administration is joke with FA as it's clown car.
Last codding team (who were roughly halfway done iirc) are "forgotten" about, along with all their work.
Ironic bannings/suspensions in a journal about having more transparency.
No one trusts zaush because he is a dickbutt, and has been accused of:
lying about working with British Airways,
rape.
being a dickbutt,
and not actually knowing how to code.
What do you mean you forgot about us?
remember how well Ferrox did? Will introducing Pheonix!
Give us some time to find a way to Weasyl our way out of this snafu.
ideally you wouldn't be satisfied about your goals until you've done the work, but when you tell people your goals and they acknowledge it. the mind is kind of tricked into feeling that it's already done. since the mind has felt that satisfaction, you become less motivated o3o
Funny though, the chat logs from a few posts up weren't hidden at all as of yet. Those things are huuuuuge. Can't miss em.
what more do you need , a confession written in blood?
EVEN if Zaush ISN'T what he is accused of being.
The fact is , the guy's reputation follows him.
Putting him in charge on coding the site . Giving him that much visibility on the BIGGEST furry website on the internet means that whomever is not savvy on furry fandom culture looking it up online will get the idea that furries are accepting of having a suspected rapist as part of the management.
Not to mention the other questionable member of staff who likes to bad touch doggies.
Add to this that the management has not too subtly been censoring anyone who were critical of this situation.
To ANYBODY on the outside , it looks like the furry fandom is protecting a sex predator and ACCEPTING their presence in high ranking position on their biggest website.
Personally I do NOT want this kind of bullshit to be associated with me.
https://twitter.com/Dragoneer/statu.....60543783305216
Or did some hack his twitter, actually I wouldn't be surprised.
Dragoneer just seems incredibly incompetent at handling this situation, and it truly shows in those screen caps.
Btw, on that note, you might wanna archive the twitter message string and delete it asap. It could easily get into the wrong hands and then the whole internet will take the piss out of the site.
Sorry if I was a bit loud in the last comment.
The people that found that note were completely unrelated to the people that hacked the site as well.
There's no doubt the notes were forged.
I can imagine that a bunch of money grubbin CEOs and old men running ISPs won't take kindly to furries
Yes, I'm sure that attitude will get you somewhere. Something terrible happened, WELP NOT MY PROBLEM LA DEE DA
"real issues" -_-;;;
Oh hey, here's a bunch of evidence you're probably going to disregard right away if you haven't already.
Here's even more.
Also, 'don't like, don't use' doesn't really apply when it comes to things many on people have no choice but to depend on - say, artists who have to survive on commissions for instance. They can't just run off somewhere else without further notice, as much as many of the ones I know would love to.
The only one who's ignorant here is you.
Does not caring mean I support it?
So that makes me a Sociopath? Seriously?
To both WerewolfNL and mapdark;
Lets not allow this to turn into Kindergarten where random misused words are flung at those who don't agree with the status quo. This is a art site, for you know.... Looking at and uploading art! And I come here to do just that. I would rather put my built up energy into fighting the battles that I feel matter most, such as fighting all the reincarnations of sopa, net neutrality, equal rights for minorities, and how conservative America is responsible for destroying all of it and more. So pardon me if I don't have the patience to deal with furry drama, or the patience to keep seeing all these annual drama bombs keep going off every time an admin around here so much as farts wrong. It's none of my business. Stop making it mine.
Not caring at all about the fact someone got raped by a certain someone who is now in a position to more easily victimise other people in the future does indeed make you a sociopath, shockingly enough. She was coerced into sex against her will - nonconsensual sex of any kind is literally the very definition of rape. If you don't want it to be any of your business so badly, why did you even bother commenting on this in the first place? Since you evidently only care about things that only directly affect you yourself.
ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
noun
noun: sociopath; plural noun: sociopaths
1. A person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.
First off I'm not extremely antisocial or I wouldn't be replying right now, and secondly I obviously don't lack a conscience or I wouldn't be concerned about net neutrality, minority rights, the state of the union, sopa, conservative / religious bigotry, and your right to disagree with me. I just don't think this site needs to erupt in a nuclear hell fire over the current issue. Sure rape is bad, and if it happened it should have been dealt with years ago through the proper channels. I don't see anything that can be done about it at this point, and running away to weasyl is not an option for me, nor would it actually solve anything. And no just because I'm not concerned doesn't mean I must be on the opposite side of the coin from you. I wouldn't even still be replying to this journal if not for people like you who feel compelled to drag every living person on this site into this drama. The user was given this task due to their art skills, not their sexual behavior. And they're not even on the site staff list, so they have no more power or influence then they ever had in the first place. I'm sure once the upgrade is done, things will go right back how they were, until the next drama bomb goes off...
Seeing how you just pulled up the dictionary definition and apparently still don't understand what it means just tells me you're absolutely dreadful at comprehensive reading, but we'll get to that in a little.
For starters, how is going to a different art site not an option for you? You obviously don't rely on commissions to bring you any part of your income (what with the complete lack of anything that could possibly be construed as artistic activity since December 2012), so unless you've already made an account and got banned for whatever reason, nothing is stopping you other than entirely selfish reasons.
Secondly, you clearly know jack shit about rape, so let me educate you. Most rape victims who go to the police aren't taken seriously, thanks to attitudes displayed by many of the people in these comments here, yourself included - either they don't consider it 'real' rape, they think the victim is lying, etc, and nothing happens. Because of this, the victim of this particular case chose to only divulge the info to Dragoneer - who in turn handled this almost as poorly as he possibly could've. Later, at one point when the site was hacked, this exchange was leaked.
With Dragoneer fully in the know of what happened, even admitting it himself yet still hiring Zaush as a coder for this site while at the same time telling the victim to 'keep quiet' about it because her rapist is popular would imply to me (and evidently many others here, not to mention many more who have already left) that he endorses this. Supporting this bullshittery, for that very reason, likewise means saying that this is the proper way to handle these things.
This is where your attitudes come in. The fact that you flatly do not give even a single fuck about what happened, still don't care that a man is being rewarded for forcing himself on a girl against her will, the fact that you have no problem thinking of a completely reasonable outrage over sexual assault as mere drama is what makes you antisocial. Claiming to care about a number of broad issues, most of which you only seem to be in because they directly affect you in some way or another, doesn't make you any more capable of guilt or empathy, either (which, for the record, is what the whole having a conscience thing means.)
Yeah, there's no way you're going to read all the way down to this, so I could as well put just about anything here. I like butts.
You lack any kind of feelings towards issues that do not affect you directly.
The fact that you downplay rape as this "oh well , too bad" thing is troubling.
Normal people would not say this because to normal people , a sexual assault doesn't have an emotional expiration date.
To normal people , the fact that this happened 1 day ago or 12 years ago would not change anything.
Not caring about on-site drama and craptastic administration is perfectly ok.
Not caring about rape is not ok.
I'm sorry you cannot tell the difference.
:I
what did I ask above?
I'm trying to get your opinion on the possible future effects this court decision will hold, like not being able to rant about these issues because your ISP has blocked the website or forced them to pay too much money just to keep up with half the normal speed
give me an honest thought on the matter and I'll give you a cookie *holds up a pizza dish sized chocolate chip cookie*
Like I'm saying for the third time at this point, what you're going on about is utterly off-topic. It's like going to a dentist convention and trying to have a panel there about roller coasters or something. :I
And if you know so much better, why don't you go try and stop rape from happening? Because I'd love to see how that will turn out.
good luck ranting when your internet provider doesn't allow access to furry sites, and I can't stop rape, only an individual moment one time, and i failed when to do so to protect myself before that
but for some reason you remind me of him, anyhow instead of being a DWM brony in a fedora, why not you take your own advice and do something useful towards stopping it?
Either you're just that incredibly stupid, or you're simply trolling at this point. No matter which of those two it is, you can waste your time on other people - enjoy your block. :I
:I rather than blocking because werewolf has no comprehensive skills and began to feel threatened when his hypocrisy was thrown back at him with " why not you take your own advice and do something useful towards stopping it?"
people sorta been sitting like ducks and taking it like ducks in art from this website
The leaked logs don't prove anybody was raped. The best it proves is a poor handling of the issue.
The logs show proof of a simple accusation. And you people call someone a rapist based on nothing more than accusations? Shameful...
As far as "censoring." I fully support FA removing comments calling people rapists. It's childish name-calling.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uplo.....t-70s-Show.gif
She witnessed the same behavior that led up to what happened to her...
This is a SERIOUS issue and dumbing down accusations of rape to the word "childish" is moronic.
why aren't any of these posts being deleted as fast as the other day if you truly give a shit about AUP/TOS
(hint: i know the answer)
I will not help you with the redemption of your pride,
but I will stand by and as you do.
What do you say about that?
We should not act as the judge and jury, but neither should we rush to embrace ignorance.
And hardly anyone is going to want to read through a mountain of text to find out crappy rumors.
It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS WEBSITE'S CODING PERFORMANCE.
Honestly what purpose do I serve?
:P
Anywho, I am knot going anywhere.
holy crap I'm hitting the post button
oh my god this is amazing
World Hunger
World war 3
Worst of all is furry drama.
how is anyone supposed to pay attention to my many and varied opinions D:
Take one opinion and make many people believe it, that's the magical formula of making facts.
- The blatant mismanagement of the site
- The constant string of downtime and slowness (because we all know it's going to happen... again)
- The terrible job the admins are doing at handling trouble tickets (you would think you would fix this issue after it had been brought up like a million times)
- The lack of functionality/features (that pretty much every other art site provides)
- The massive amount "procrastination" (I'm being generous with my word usage here) to the point where it becomes "Oh... it's too late now! Let's promise a different feature that we are never going to release!"
and so on, and so forth...
"We're working on it."
If you are willing to listen to such concerns, why is the administration hiding many comments and even suspending users without really any warning?
Zaush is VERY qualified, go take a look at his portfolio he is willing to share. Don't get your information from "he said she said"
People have no right to question his qualifications until they see his credentials, not rumors.
All of this is a giant grapevine of he said she said. None of this was our business.
People shouldn't be getting upset over friends getting hired. That is how the world is run and how jobs are hired!! NETWORKING In the animation business making friends is how you make connections to get hired. Voice acting business? If you don't know anyone in the industry good look. IN GENERAL making friends and connections is how you find opportunity. There is NOTHING wrong with it.
The more you all complain the more pressure is put on the staff. Would you WANT to work your ass off when there is a tank of bitching uses below you?
Your a victim of rape? Ok I'm sorry but this STILL doesn't involve you, its between the two people in question. Keep calm and get your facts straight before you hate on someone and make assumptions. Your worried that a MAYBE rapist is working with the site and has access to information? THEN GO FIGURE OUT what's the truth before you run around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Why would a rapist make an obvious attempt to get personal information and go around and do stuff. Like, just realize for difficult and obvious that would be.
Mad about how the staff is handling this? Ok well I can understand. But the WHOLE SITE is freaking out. How in the world can you handle that quickly and easily? You can't.
why were they hiding comments and banning people? Because people were attacking the staff members which is in the TOS as bannable, which they have every right to do. Hiding comments? Well because they didn't want this to blow up the way it did. Before you get upset about them not doing anything? Well they did.
"Your a victim of rape? Ok I'm sorry but this STILL doesn't involve you"
I'm sorry but it kind of fucking totally does!
Uhm yeah it fucking does. Victims of sexual abuse need every ounce of support they can get, and aside from Dragoneer assuming the lead role of a sexual crimes detective and seeing "no evidence of rape" instead of handing the information over to the professionals, it is a grave injustice to anyone who has been a victim of Zaush's thirst for girls that do not want to have sex with him.
BAM!
As for the problems with the site... I seriously doubt anyone expected FA to become as popular as it has and the unofficial face of the furry fandom when it was created 9 years ago; particularly as there has been an explosion of growth in submissions within the past two, maybe three years. I'm sure the code is a patched mess just like Second Life's and other places that have been around for awhile and would need some serious cleaning up or possibly to even be redone. Yes the patched mess is ultimately a hindrance that drags down site performance and keeps admins working more on keeping the site running than being able to implement new features. It sounds like the actions that lead immediately to the current situation were in part from the FA staff trying to address some of the physical problems of the site.
Ultimately some official statement is going to have to be given out to quiet rumors and will likely be to the embarrassment of all affected individuals involved.
And a bag of chips.
you did anything but that.
Such an improvement over all the work done against the community up until now.
Still I wonder how exactly there'll be any way to quell with the community (somehow !) what weren't really rumors, yaknow.
Not that I give much of a turd anyway, I'm just stating my amusement over the way things are handled.
NOPE! Zoophilia is a bannable topic unless you're a member of staff, or a popular artist and are told to "lay low".
Listen, I don't really care if Adam Wan/Zaush/Whateverhisface did something, because that's for the Court of Law to look into. What I do care about is that this isn't handled in an adult fashion in any way. If it belongs in a courtroom, then let it go to a courtroom. Last I checked, then FA is not a courtroom. Keep it the fuck away from here. That goes to anyone that's been adding to this heated argument, really (which happens to be what? 3 years old? Get a grip!).
Now... Censorship. You're censoring what things in particular? Posts mentioning his name? Criticizing the course of events here? What? Censorship isn't going to do you any good, you'll just look like the type of dickheads, that the Declaration of Independence was written to protect/distance Americans (read: most of your user base) from. You're effectively working against the freedom of speech by doing this, and it's making you look like idiots.
I thought Project Phoenix was supposed to live up to its name. I guess I was wrong. Even if you do manage to replace this system for another, then I highly doubt that the tone of the administration and their censoring methods here are going to change. FA is heading down the same path of quick solutions and bad choices it has been following for many years.
Whenever I refer to "you" in this post, I mean those (hopefully few) administrators that are allergic to the slightest bit of criticism.
However, I will agree that censoring is not right in this case, and while it is not illegal, it is a horrible PR move on the entire staff's part.
The DoI was heavily inspired by Montesquieu and John Locke (and Thomas Hobbes, but he's more or less irrelevant to my point), and I encourage you to read about their works. Their works were focused on government, the uncivilized state of being and private property rights, true, as there were several tyrannic monarchies in Europe at this time. But if you look beyond that, then they all, to some extent, describe why and how corruption should be avoided. One of the (positive, mind you) consequences of the French Revolution, which exemplifies the core values presented in the bigger philosophical works of the Enlightenment, is the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen. This document was more or less the end of the French king, Louis XVI, and Queen, Marie Antoinette were both executed.
Sometimes it surprises me, that people forgot what the world has looked like due to corruption and misused power. It never ceases to surprise me, that people can't recognize corruption when they see it.
Corruption doesn't only exist on a level of government, it certainly also exists on innumerable sites on the web. If this enforcement of censorship isn't what you'd call corruption, then you'd amaze me.
Speaking ill of the government and having legal action taken against you is a clear violation. Dragoneer banning people is not, as it can be seen as labeling a person as a trespasser on private property. Removing a platform where one can speak is not a violation (see the A&E/Duck Dynasty fiasco of last month).
I agree that corruption is at all levels, but this really is not the place for the Bill of Rights. I agree that the administration of FA *IS* corrupt, and the cronyism is astounding. For fuck's sake, admitting that you are a zoophile on FA is bannable, yet we have someone running the forums who has admitted on FA that he has abused animals. He has done everything to sweep it under the rug, and many people have forgot about it already. I'll probably be banned for posting those links anyways, so take care!
If you make an announcement, you better be able to justify why you're not shitcanning the Zaush project and going with Ben Anderson's (who's been working on an FA 2.0 with a team of actual professionals for three months).
I know that if I was volunteering to rewrite a site, with the endorsement of the FA staff, then I'd be really, really upset if I heard that some other guy is getting the job just because he's a popufur after putting in so much time on a new codebase.
So forget Zaush and whatever drama that goes along with him; I want to see Ben, Myr, and the rest of them working on a new site, not some guy that ostensibly picked up a book on NodeJS and fancies himself a seasoned webdev with only one other coder on the team.
Mmmmm, your avatar.... *stares* >^.=.^<
In the military everyone is judged as members of the same military and bound to the same laws. Rank and role in the army means nothing if done something wrong.
can someone tell me what one might be?
http://susiron.tumblr.com/post/7379.....-was-suspended
What do you mean you plum forgot about us?
Remeber how well project Ferrox went? Well we decided to up the ante with Project Phoenix.
Give us some time while we find a way to Weasyl out of this.
User complaints boil down to:
* The mismanagement of the site.
* The months long backlog of trouble tickets.
* The current administration in general, especially when it comes to cronyism (wanting your friend to be in power instead of qualified people).
* The last coding team (who was roughly half done iirc) being forgotten about by Dragoneer, and then swept under the rug, code and all, to make way for Zaush.
* No one trusting Zaush, who has been accused of being incredibly rude (for lack of better words), lying about his job with British Airways, sexual harassment, rape, and not actually knowing how to code.
* The "moving to Weasyl" journal spam.
* And the really ironic banning/suspensions in the "be more transparent" journal.
A++ for you.
On another note, I see a lot of comments about fa needing folders or thumbnail options where it is built in and don't need to be uploaded separate, an other small useful gallery things....there's a certain website everyone is trying out now that has all those all ready to go! ;o
I don't care about this at all
Look guys I'm not caring so hard hahahaha
(please pay attention to me)
this is so dumb, giving in to drama
look at me telling people to shut up lol
(I'm following this issue intensely)
Step 1: Explode in all-consuming flames.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Emerge gloriously reborn!
FECKEN LEL
Now watch 'em not address any of this~
1 person is rumored and assumed a rapist, and everyone leaves.
Just. Just why? Why is it so important to them?
They aren't being ruled by a gummy tyrant* so why hate 1 guy who's just helping?
[*Not insulting anyone, FA is great]
Not an exaggeration. He IS a rapist. He IS a sexual assailant.
It's important because we don't want him having access to our personal fucking information.
You proved me Right.
If people say, "X, therefore Y!" and you ask how this is, and they respond, "BECAUSE WE SAY SO." That's Bandwagon fallacy.
If you ask why, and people respond, "HERE IS OUR EVIDENCE." Then you have to move on and discuss the evidence at hand.
If you refuse to discuss the evidence, that doesn't make the fact that they posited an actual argument go away. And if you use the fact you're getting a degree in something to say your argument is better and mine isn't, that's an appeal to authority. ;)
A direct example: "Lots of people I know believe in astrology, so there's got to be something to do with it."
Just because someone claims something works and many people believe it doesn't make it necessarily true. This is interesting as it unfolds. Also I'm not trying to start an argument, so I hope it isn't seen that way.
When War of the Worlds was being broadcasted on the radio in 1938 and caused mass hysteria, people were persuaded by one radio station that aliens were in fact invading. While most people didn't panic, others were convinced when they saw other people panicing because they believed this 'evidence' which was actually just a story was true. This was evidence enough to them. Many other individuals failed to consider alternate explanations and jumped on what they believed was true just because other people believed it was true. (Hard to summarize that silly event, lol).
This is bandwagoning. People are believing 'evidence' they believe is true just because a wide range of people believe its true and are leaving because every one else is leaving. You don't have to agree with my opinion, but I don't see 'evidence', I see 'accusations' and actions taken out of hysteria.
A Therefore B.
If A is based on public opinion, that is a bandwagon fallacy.
If A is based on a series of arguments, then A has to be judged on it's supporting evidences.
The argument that the one person wrote takes time to support why the accusations are not just that. Again, that is an argument, and not a fallacy. Now, whether or not the parts of his arguments hold logical fallacies IS up for you to debate.
However, I will admit you are correct - if someone does post without bothering to support why then yeah that is bandwagon. However that doesn't have to do with the arguing document because it does not rely on public opinion - it tries to support itself.
BTW I would prefer not to be quoted in any publications, thanks.
Just another great part of the human condition.
This is an issue that should have never been brought onto FA and should have been settled within the parties involved. Once it has been proved, then people are free to go on a tirade.
Funny though, how victim-blaming journals and comments aren't being hidden, only ones that are trying to "raise awareness" that, oh hey, here's a guy you should probably look out for. To, like, avoid, and know what he could be capable of based on multiple other people coming forward with their personal experiences, or something.
Remaining neutral in a controversial issue has nothing to do with supporting a potential racist and that's a bad viewpoint to take. I would feel pretty shitty getting behind someone before I hear all the facts and it turns out the accused is innocent. It doesn't mean that the accused is innocent and that he is supported, it means you're willing to hear all sides and wait for everything to surface before condemning their already ruined lives - whichever outcome it is.
Actually remaining neutral, i.e. avoiding the problem from either perspective regardless of what happens, CAN be very problematic, however. You see that sort of thing happen in school systems all the time-- kids are bullied, but many kids are too afraid to get involved so they just sit back and watch it happen.
Comments were deleted, and people were suspended and banned simply for bringing up the issue at hand when this mess came to light.
Meanwhile, there are many people making HORRENDOUS comments that attribute to rape culture and harassment towards the victim that remain without deletion or consequence.
This is not a matter of preventing harassment, it's a matter of hiding an issue that the staff would rather not deal with.
If someone brought up a personal situation and slandered the shit out of me without all the appropriate evidence, that is harassment. People keep forgetting: accused is not the same thing as guilty. If you slander someone on this site, it gets hidden. If you are in fact correct and it is to censor the situation, that's fine, good, your correct - BUT! you can't argue against the fact this is direct harassment at the same time.
Also this is so much more than the "supposed" rape case and the admins censoring everything relating to it, it's about mismanagement of the site in general. The admins are not good at what they do, and with the decisions they've been making I can't see it getting any better. But that's just me!
I'm sorry I misunderstood what it meant to be part of a community. Better to ignore everything that happens around you.
Really, sometimes I think, reason, logic, skepticism basically the capability to THINK are truly rare gems in this fandom and you know what? I don't give a flying fuck by now anymore what staying neutral i.e. REASONABLE looks like to a bunch of whiny, over-emotional, hysterical, social justice crusaders and professional victimhood drama queens. If taking a reasonable position is all of a sudden the “most horrendous sin in history” then yes, I'll ride down straight to the 9th circle of Hell on a Harley, honking at top speed.
I have seen debates and reactions the last few days, which have me doubting the sanity of a few people on this site. I'll handle it like this in the future I'll dismiss one's whole viewpoint and argument automatically as soon as one starts playing Tumblr SJ Buzzword Bingo instead of displaying sound reason. Consider it a form of “Godwin's Law” mixed with “You don't talk to crazy.” And if you think this is unfair and mean spirited then congratulations, that's what people get when they severely alienate others with that kind of bullshite. [/rant]
So nice job shoehorning your opinion here, but no cigar.
Your idea of "reasonable" is standing back and giving someone who was already known to be potentially dangerous the benefit of the doubt because someone in a higher position of power hasn't said anything about it. This happens so often with rapists and murderers alike, even if convicted and released on "good behaviour", and always leads to more rapes and murders.
But I wonder, if he was a convicted sex offender, and was still being hired here, would this discussion be any different? Or would people be finding other excuses to not care about it?
I'm not saying he should be locked up, I just don't think it's right for him to have this position on FA, considering the mountain of accusations from people who have experienced being around the guy. (Never mind that it's also been said that he doesn't actually know how to code!) If the stories people are telling are true, then it's a massive security risk to the community. And the administration is not handling the situation very well at all, by deleting journals and comments and banning people. If anything, their lack of other action a week after all this came up speaks volumes about their lack of professionalism.
Also, in my opinion, blowing off people who are not being hysterical, calling them "the crazy" for calmly pointing out a legitimate issue with our society, sounds awfully unreasonable to me. That in itself is a pretty weak argument, and a cheap effort to undermine someone else's viewpoint by using a slur to try to get your weak point across. Oh, wait, you just said something like that, didn't you?
No, my idea of "reasonable" is coming to a conclusion by applying the tools of logic and critical thinking. That's what then leads to positions as "innocent until proven guilty", the burden of proof is on the one asserting a claim, evidence has to be conclusive and reliable and so on and so forth. You know, reasonable positions without succumbing to emotional and confirmation biases. As for your last claim, I don't even have to answer that myself. I'll let someone far more eloquent, intelligent and magnificent do that:
"it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer" - Benjamin Franklin, Works 293 (1970), Letter from Benjamin Franklin to Benjamin Vaughan (14 March 1785)
"I don't think you understand that those "buzzwords" are very real issues outside of tumblr, and existed long before tumblr."
Oh please stop! I probably have read more Feminist Theory than you have. Feminism in Literature was the topic I graduated in, but you know what? Feminism isn't 100% truth. Feminist Theory has merits and weaknesses just like every other Theory, especially this nasty brand of modern day Feminism that has spawned the Tumblr SJ crowd and their ilk.
The “buzzwords” have meaning and they are viable to an extend but to use them as “fighting words” to sabotage every kind of rational discourse on the topic and pretty much turn it into a histrionic circle jerk of self righteous indignation and lynch mob mentality as it has been done a lot in the past few days is the height of intellectual dishonesty and IMHO deplorable. Quite frankly, it disgusts me!
"But I wonder, if he was a convicted sex offender, and was still being hired here, would this discussion be any different? Or would people be finding other excuses to not care about it?"
I can't speak for others, I would never speak for others. I only speak for myself, "YES, FRIGGING YES." If that were the case I'd personally stick the pitchfork in and prepare a roast!
He might be a sleaze ball, I don't know. I never talked to him nor do I know him personally. I don't give much about rumor and gossip. Had enough of that bullshit in school and it pretty much cemented my believe that everyone has to get on my bad side on his own effort not by someone else's busy muzzle. As for his qualifications. Now we got something worth to look at. What I have seen about it, seems like a big chunk of nepotism but that is not the issue that ruffles my feathers and frankly doesn't interest me. That's for Neer and the rest to handle. if he makes FA go "splode" then he and Neer will have to bear the consequences of it.
I can understand the banning of certain individuals and deleting of comments and journals. I would have done the same, if I would have been in the position of the admins or if this was my site. Potentially libelous comments are a tricky and nasty issue and if FA cannot show that they at least try to squash it, they might be held accountable if it could come to a libel lawsuit. It would not be mine nor FA's duty to pay restitution for your free speech rights.
"Also, in my opinion, blowing off people who are not being hysterical, calling them "the crazy" for calmly pointing out a legitimate issue with our society, sounds awfully unreasonable to me. That in itself is a pretty weak argument, and a cheap effort to undermine someone else's viewpoint by using a slur to try to get your weak point across. Oh, wait, you just said something like that, didn't you?"
Right I did and you know what? I did that as a REACTION to what has been happening the past week. It has in a lot of cases not been:
"I believe we should refrain from judgment until there is conclusive evidence and rape needs to be investigated by the proper authorities to obtain such."
"Why good Sir, I really think your point of view is wrong and here are reasons why... "
It has been far more like this:
"I believe we should refrain from judgment until there is conclusive evidence and rape needs to be investigated by the proper authorities to obtain such."
"ZOMG, RAPE APOLOGIST, VICTIM BLAMER BLARGHGGGLLL YOU INSENSITVE SCUM, TO DEMAND PROOF? HOW DARE YOU ARGHHHHLARG"
Quite frankly it has by now reached a state where my future policy discussing the issue will be to dismiss anyone who uses "victim blamer", "rape apologist", "rape enabler", "check your privilege" or "rape culture" in a conversation as being a coo coo for coco puffs SJW... I kind of trigger on these words now. “HOW DARE YOU NOT RESPECT MY EMOTIONAL ANGUISH!” ;) (original comment hidden due copy error)
Though, thinking about it, I guess calling out a fellow member for RL harassment is harassment in itself. And since RL harassment is no one's responsibility here, there is no winning that fight, and your only option is to accept it since there's nothing you can really do about most harassment IRL either. (Although that being said, reporting someone for site-based harassment only seems relevant if you're popular enough. IF they even get to your trouble ticket.)
I'll be honest, I don't really know what you're talking about mentioning this "nasty modern feminism". I see so many differing opinions on the internet I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to and why you feel that way. But this is not the time or place to get into it.
I agree that tumblr SJ gets very, um... mudslingy, and I personally prefer to not get mixed up in it. But that doesn't mean that makes the current situation okay. I'm not saying I'm out for blood or anything like that, it just seems kinda fishy that this guy, who was already well-known as a sleaze bag, even before the 2010 data leak, as well as not knowing how to code (though his tweet about it has since been deleted by the looks), is suddenly... coding for the site. I don't feel the decision makes sense on Neer's part. You'd think Neer would have at least known that this would have caused a shitstorm, considering what happened when the 2010 data leak actually happened.
The more I think about this, the more I find it has less and less to do with headhunting. It's barely anything to actually do with Zaush, when you look objectively. I just read his own journal post on the accusations and everything, he has his side of the story, finally, even if it's three years too late. It doesn't really clear anything up because it's still he-said-she-said, but at least SOMEONE involved isn't pretending nothing's happening, gosh.
I'm not sure it's even about Zaush's ability to code or how much he may or may not have lied about his past employment. Or if it has much to do with Dragoneer directly anymore. But the admins here have done a lot of really, really dumb and unprofessional things. The silent censorship is what scared everyone into feeling like they were trying to cover up a crime.
You know, you're right. I blew up on you even though you're absolutely not the kind of person I have issues with. I guess I have been so irritated about the whole shebang that me reading your comment and seeing you use the words in contention was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm sorry you have been on the receiving end of my ire when there would have been far more deserving targets.
Okay, maybe I need to clarify a bit. You see, I'm not just a Fur, but also a Gamer and an Atheist. While I am not very vocal in either community – Heck, I'm usually not even very vocal in the furry community usually, at least not online – I have had the displeasure of witnessing not one but two communities going down in flames thanks to that brand of Feminism. They devolved into intense infighting, mud slinging and utterly embarrassed themselves on all sides thanks to a certain type of extreme Feminism Now you may ask what this kind of Feminism is, it's the Anita Sarkeesian, Rebecca Watson and Phaedra Starling kind of Feminism. The kind that brought the world such gems as "Schroedinger's Rapist", Elevator and Dongle Gate.
It's an intensely aggressive, vicious and divisive form of retaliatory, trigger happy, social justice mentality completely distorting Feminist Theory. It's at its core incredibly cynic, misandrist, confrontational and sexphobic, paired with an overinflated sense of entitlement and a desire to utterly destroy and ruin anyone this brand of Feminism has identified as an “offender” to its dogma. No matter if said offender is male or female. It is also extremely censorship happy in a fashion that would bring a smile to every right wing nut job out there. To make a long story short, it pretty much split the two communities in half and they really didn't recover very well from it with deep deep trenches separating the sides and I dunno. I really would like not to see that shit go down in the Furry community as well.
I don't really know what to think of this description of feminism. I've not heard of or experienced any of that (or recognize those names), even as much as I've hung around tumblr. Except maybe people being called "radfems" or "radscum", but you get extremists in every group I guess. But then if I see anyone getting too extreme about much of anything I try not to pay attention anymore because watching other people freak out actually sends me into panic attacks. Joy.
At least with me, from looking over... less biased posts, my problem isn't even with Zaush and Neer. Like, I still don't agree with the decision to put him on the team regardless of what the truth is, but my main concern is the complete lack of professionalism from the admins over the years.
Like I said, it was a train wreck and occurred mostly around Free thought Blogs and led to the creation of an atheist social justice movement called A+heism. I would agree with you about the whole "radfem" stuff and the bickering and bitching if it would just stay that way but that "other" brand of Feminism I talked about goes beyond that. They are highly retaliatory and pretty much know no limits. Imagine an extreme feminist version of Anonymous.
Yeah I can agree with that. The FA staff really suffers from food in mouth syndrome from time to time, though I can only imagine what it must be like to have to deal with people like us on a daily basis. I mean lets be honest, Furs ain't exactly the most stable or socially capable people on the planet. In one way or the other we are all a bit coo coo. I guess one thing I would like to see is more think, less feel when it comes to all this stuff but then again, perhaps that is my coo coo side. I'm not very good in the emotions department. Sometimes I can literally not understand why people care so much, to quote '”Sherlock”. Though I gotta give the furry fandom that. It managed to make me flip my lid in a way I haven't had in years.
As for waiting for "someone more qualified," you fail to notice that a grand issue here is that our higher position of power here-- the admins-- are literally doing NOTHING. When the authoritative power is doing nothing, then what do you plan to do-- sit on your ass and call it a day?
We are expressing our opinions because we are bothered by this incident and want to see change. You do not have to be a professional of any caliber to express disdain on a matter you are a part of.
And please do not bring up the fact that a situation such as a rape belongs in a court of law, as this issue extends far beyond the reaches of the accused rape.
There is enough evidence floating around for many people to draw conclusions as they see fit. Now is the time to discuss that information, and hope that the admins will work with us to make a change. Sitting back and waiting for the admins to draw their own conclusions only creates a biased, faulty answer to a large-scale issue.
And i just dont get it when people Leave fA just because of Rumors?
And i think the Site design was s pretty neat. and it can even give something new for the site?!
But my opnion of this Drama and stuff that its not my concern. but why people who dont know anything just leave this place because of this?
I Decided that im staying, if its true or not. :I. Like i say! I keep Arting and they keep hating!
'Dude! YOU coded this thing last month! Why is it throwing exceptions now that 50 users a second are hitting it?'
'How should I know? Give me admin access and I'll try to figure it out.'
( Admin access granted )
In other words. Any website designer in charge of doing a major revamp of any website will have access to everything since he's working on the entire website. They'll access to view everything to test the interaction of the new code working with the existing code to make sure there are no problems and it's consistent with everyone across the board.
So regardless of what anyone says the fact of the matter is that any programmer redesigning a website has full admin access to the website and can make any changes to it fundamental base code of the website. Revamping a website isn't some simple process since there is a lot of code not only for formatting, how information is transferred and shared between users, admins, and guests. There's interactions for people who are members and non-members to a site as well as how the information is tracked for simple things like comments, favorites, and notes passing across the server to different sections. While one might not be given administrative privileges that include viewing notes and other things relating to personal information they will have access to how it's transferred and passed around.
Poorly coded websites will be vulnerable to all sorts of security issues because there are basically poorly coded transactions of interactions across the website's server. If you code something wrong or in certain ways you leave opening to have that particular interaction exploited. Exploitation of poor coding results in people being able to track, trace, and even manipulate data as it passes across the server. What's worse is these kinds of exploits would be undetectable since it's using something that's apart of the core code of the website. Information being passed on a server is usually recorded in a log, but the logging for certain events can be deleted, manipulated, disabled, or even skipped if you know what you're doing.
Coding a website effects EVERYTHING about the website. Having someone re-code the entire thing from the ground up means they alter and make ALL of the rules that make it function. That person would have control over how ALL data is managed, recorded, and passed from person to person that's viewing it at home and on the server. Security of a website is a serious issue and in the wrong hands it can be a setup for a complete and total disaster.
Think for a moment. What would happen if the websites is poorly coded? You can have data loss, data manipulation, data theft, data mining, and server instability. Data manipulation means someone could basically intercept something before it goes somewhere and changes it (Censoring words with filters is a good example of data manipulation since it changes your text into something else). Data mining and data theft go hand-in-hand since data mining collection all the data passing in, out, and through a server and collects it and data theft steals something and makes it that person's own information. Data theft includes a lot of things, but it basically means that anyone would be able to take messages, comments, art, stories, and anything that is considered data on a server and steal that information.
Now, you tell me if it's no big deal on WHO codes a website. Most people on this site don't know anything or very little on how programming works. I understand how to program myself and understand that the interaction of code can be far more complex then you would normally think at first. Reputation of a web designer and coder is taken very seriously in the industries in which they are hired because they need to be trusted with then information they'll have access to. Professionally a website coder and developer is gauged for more then his ability but his merit and ability to be trusted with confidential information.
There is a reason to be concerned with any person involved with coding and redesigning site because they will be doing far more then any common person would ever understand. This is also the reason why website developers are usually used time and time again by the same company because they trust them with handling their information.
Even if he watched it wouldn't matter since he knows nothing of programming or coding himself. So how would tell if something is being done wrong or not? He won't. He has to put his trust into someone to do something he has not a single clue about. If he did know anything it certainly isn't enough to do it himself which means the more complex coding would be lost to him.. which is useless in the end.
Its funny how things disappear.
I'm going to go turn a blind eye just like what everyone does to most issues in the world.
And out of the endless problems in the world to choose form not to care... I choose this one!
*also notices now they might not try so hard for a bunch of people that probably wont appreciate it*
*is saddening but, hopes folders come out of all of this...mah ass needs me some folders so i dont have to make anymore FA accounts to separate the different things i do*
Can't say I've heard too much about that site, but I'll keep it in mind for suggesting to people if they're looking for alternatives.
https://www.sofurry.com
I can type the same few words in and get the same pictures that i just saw on the front page
FA's isnt much better but its something
DA's is way too over complicated for no good reason
it's been real fa
The fandom has spent way too many years trying to defend the fandom against outside sayings of how furries are sick fucks who screw animals, are pedophiles, and are rapists. People keep saying "not EVERYONE in the fandom is like that/I'm not like that!". But these vile people came into this overly open, non-defined fandom, and instead of being pointed out and shamed, people shrug it of and say "how does this effect ME?/it's none of MY business". Now look. You have a huge ass chunk of the fandom filled with despicable people, some of the worst even owning and running this site. And it seems that the people who stick up for this site don't even care about the assholes that stand next to them on here. Thus perpetuating fandom rot. The people who are so damn blindly willing to stay here really seem to miss the point of things too. This site has been behind the times for YEARS and is a piece of shit. But admit it. You don't care about the quality of the site. You don't care how it's run or with what people. You don't even care that artists want to branch out and go to other places and might end up losing business because you won't follow. You don't fucking care about the fandom as a people. All you care about this stupid ass site and your pictures and RP contacts. Thank you for proving the furry fandom has a lot of horrible people in it. Let's see you defend the fandom when people can look all over this site and see all the shit that's come from this event and all the people hugboxing/circlejerking Furaffinity.
The concerns are actually legit and rape is not a joke.
FA's relations with users on the other hand....
At this point it just feels like a huge game and nobody is winning.
If you omitted everything and looked purely at the reaction of the community.. that would be enough for artists to leave and for people to be upset. Callous, cold, and uncaring to the point that it shows a lack of empathy for others is extremely disturbing.
Facts or speculation you should always question somethings and weigh everything equally and with a sense of reason. Based on everything going around there is more negative then positive in this entire situation and ordeal.
Though, in all seriousness, hope all this Adam Wan/Zaush/Whatever drama mess just gets all cleared up and hope Project Phoenix will come to light, if even possible now...
I honestly think this journal is superfluous.
Egh..
I just don't know what to do anymore.
the shit has hit the fan, people.
I haven't seen drama explode THIS big in.. well... never ._.
Looks like the past updates have been effective!
In fact, many people I have seen bail from FA are against the actions and morals the site admins have recently expressed and shown, not the drama bomb as a whole.
People get stonewalled and screwed over. Long time users want to HELP the site but it goes the opposite direction.
We can't have nice things on here! If we try updating stuff we'll just break something else by how badly coded it is.
So true. /fixes box/ OOO noes! Now the comment chain is even WORSE! D;