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IMVU and Art Theft Clarification Journal
10 years ago
I am seeing a LOT of misinformation being spread around so here is a few points I would like to make clear.
-DMCAs do not cost money to file.
-You do not have to have a lawyer to file a DMCA.
-You do not have to have an IMVU account to file a DMCA.
-You do not have to have your copyright registered to file a DMCA.
-Yes, I have filed DMCAs against things on IMVU and yes, the products did get removed.
-It took me less than an hour to write up the DMCAs, it took less than 24 hours to get a response and be notified that the products were removed. It cost me absolutely no amount of money.
-You do not have to pay money to have an IMVU account.
-Theft on IMVU is done by individual users, not IMVU.
-IMVU will remove anything that you file a DMCA against.
-IMVU can not be held responsible for content submitted by 3rd parties.
-IMVU DOES have a furry community.
-There are original and talented artists on IMVU.
-Just because you may not personally like IMVU, does not mean that it doesn't have furries.
-Asking that IMVU gives every artist on FA a free AP account on IMVU is ridiculous.
-IMVU has a large userbase of younger members, they can not risk younger member being able to access content they should not be able to access.
-Art theft has been happening on IMVU for a long time. Just like art theft happens on Second Life, e621, facebook, and every other website that allows people to upload their own images.
-There has not and will not be an increase of art theft because of IMVU buying furaffinity.
-I predict art theft on IMVU will decrease as the artists on Furaffinity are finally paying attention to IMVU.
-Leaving FA will not make people less likely to steal your work, thieves will be thieves, they aren't going to care what site you use.
-If you want help filing a DMCA, you can contact me privately and I will be more than willing to help.
-If you want help viewing things that are restricted content on IMVU, there are many IMVU users who would be more than willing to help out by providing screencaps and product ID numbers.
If there is anything else someone has said and you want to know whether or not is is true (such as things about VIP or AP on IMVU, etc) feel free to ask me and I will address those points as well.
You are also free to link this journal to anyone who is looking for information.
I am a long-term user of both FA and IMVU. On IMVU I am a content creator who specializes in furry stuff.
Added a FAQ:
-What is IMVU?
A 3D chat program where people can buy clothing to dress up an avatar or decorate virtual rooms.
-Do these people make money off this stolen art?
I will say yes because they get IMVU currency, but these type of art thieves probably do not make enough to turn IMVU currency into real money.
-Can't I just flag it as stolen?
Unfortunately no, a DMCA is the only way to get them removed
-Will that cost me money?
Nope.
-Will I need a lawyer?
Nope.
-Do I have to have my copyright registered?
Nope.
-How do I file a DMCA?
By mail
IMVU, inc.
Attn: DMCA Administrator
PO Box 390012
Mountain View, CA 94039
By e-mail
DMCA_agent[at]imvu.com
Example DMCA from IMVU:
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/info/ta.....nnoticehtm.htm
-What? My real life name and information? Is this safe?
Yes, it is safe, the DMCAs go to a lawyer who has the products removed from the catalog. Your personal information will not be shared with anyone, not even the person you are filing the DMCA against.
-I am the commissioner for the art and the artist doesn't care about the art theft, but it's my characters and I care, what do I do?
You get the artists to give you the okay to file a DMCA on their behalf. Then you use the second mandatory statement from the example DMCA.
This journal also has DMCA information:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6603749
-DMCAs do not cost money to file.
-You do not have to have a lawyer to file a DMCA.
-You do not have to have an IMVU account to file a DMCA.
-You do not have to have your copyright registered to file a DMCA.
-Yes, I have filed DMCAs against things on IMVU and yes, the products did get removed.
-It took me less than an hour to write up the DMCAs, it took less than 24 hours to get a response and be notified that the products were removed. It cost me absolutely no amount of money.
-You do not have to pay money to have an IMVU account.
-Theft on IMVU is done by individual users, not IMVU.
-IMVU will remove anything that you file a DMCA against.
-IMVU can not be held responsible for content submitted by 3rd parties.
-IMVU DOES have a furry community.
-There are original and talented artists on IMVU.
-Just because you may not personally like IMVU, does not mean that it doesn't have furries.
-Asking that IMVU gives every artist on FA a free AP account on IMVU is ridiculous.
-IMVU has a large userbase of younger members, they can not risk younger member being able to access content they should not be able to access.
-Art theft has been happening on IMVU for a long time. Just like art theft happens on Second Life, e621, facebook, and every other website that allows people to upload their own images.
-There has not and will not be an increase of art theft because of IMVU buying furaffinity.
-I predict art theft on IMVU will decrease as the artists on Furaffinity are finally paying attention to IMVU.
-Leaving FA will not make people less likely to steal your work, thieves will be thieves, they aren't going to care what site you use.
-If you want help filing a DMCA, you can contact me privately and I will be more than willing to help.
-If you want help viewing things that are restricted content on IMVU, there are many IMVU users who would be more than willing to help out by providing screencaps and product ID numbers.
If there is anything else someone has said and you want to know whether or not is is true (such as things about VIP or AP on IMVU, etc) feel free to ask me and I will address those points as well.
You are also free to link this journal to anyone who is looking for information.
I am a long-term user of both FA and IMVU. On IMVU I am a content creator who specializes in furry stuff.
Added a FAQ:
-What is IMVU?
A 3D chat program where people can buy clothing to dress up an avatar or decorate virtual rooms.
-Do these people make money off this stolen art?
I will say yes because they get IMVU currency, but these type of art thieves probably do not make enough to turn IMVU currency into real money.
-Can't I just flag it as stolen?
Unfortunately no, a DMCA is the only way to get them removed
-Will that cost me money?
Nope.
-Will I need a lawyer?
Nope.
-Do I have to have my copyright registered?
Nope.
-How do I file a DMCA?
By mail
IMVU, inc.
Attn: DMCA Administrator
PO Box 390012
Mountain View, CA 94039
By e-mail
DMCA_agent[at]imvu.com
Example DMCA from IMVU:
http://www.imvu.com/catalog/info/ta.....nnoticehtm.htm
-What? My real life name and information? Is this safe?
Yes, it is safe, the DMCAs go to a lawyer who has the products removed from the catalog. Your personal information will not be shared with anyone, not even the person you are filing the DMCA against.
-I am the commissioner for the art and the artist doesn't care about the art theft, but it's my characters and I care, what do I do?
You get the artists to give you the okay to file a DMCA on their behalf. Then you use the second mandatory statement from the example DMCA.
This journal also has DMCA information:
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6603749
Even more so the hate IMVU journals on here...
I hope more people read this.
So much truth...
- Just speaking.
Yes just speak with the creator of the frame/poster of fur it's depend of the product.
Because a see lot of journal about IMVU creator who selling frame with furries.
But that make a lot of dramas if other people want to attack creators.
So, if one person is hurt by a product, just speak with the creator, the creator can put product invisible or just put an other file.
If you are not rude with him of course, that can happend in peace.
I have just an example yesterday one person send me a message on IMVU just for change a file because it's the art of her sister. She speak with me
very calm, not agressive. So I accept it, and not all of my picture is art by me and only by me.
But an other example yesterday, the bad example, a person make a journal about me. And one person comment with my facebook profil and say " It is fuckin ass french women. " or like that, so very rude things about me. I don't know him, and I don't know how he found my facebook profile so.. oO And he say " It is a fake account for RP" But. It is my real account.. He probably think minene-chan and this facebook profile is a different person. But no. And this man don't speak with me on my FA for just ask if it's me or not. He flag my FB account for a false name.
So. If you have a problem with a person, just don't make that public, if other person see that they can makje more and more problems. And lots of dramas happend.
Sorry for my english language, I'm french and I don't really want to use google translate it is not always clean.
There are those who, if approached politely, will change or hide a product.
Although, no art should be used unless it was by you, for you. A lot of artists see it as disrespectful to not be asked before their art is used.
You could try asking around to see if any artists would be willing to let you use their work. There might be some out there who only ask that you credit them on the product page or something.
I 100% agree that everyone should be polite when they approach someone about something like this. Being rude just makes things more difficult for everyone. As well as people should never get angry at another person for not understanding them perfectly, not everyone grew up speaking the same language.
As long as you live in a country where WIPO is in force you can file a DMCA in the US.
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/Sho.....p;treaty_id=16
Basically, just because IMVU can rely on a safe harbor, doesn't mean it couldn't (or shouldn't) do more than that.
For example, they could agree that if you have a source file for the work in question, or an instances of it published first on another reputable site (especially a site you own), it is reasonable for them to believe that you're the owner, especially if the other person doesn't challenge this. They could even have policies that their staff should investigate a reasonable suspicion that a person was not the author of a work, and hide such work until they receive a reasonable response from the submitter.
It would be possible to try to abuse such a system; but it is possible to file false DMCAs as well, and the chance of getting caught is minimal unless you make a habit of it, in which case it might just be worth them tracking down your IP address and getting you in court. (As a practical matter, my experience is that people tend not to make outright false claims, although they often try to bend the truth to their purposes.)
As it is, IMVU are being as cheap as the law allows, and making it hard to identify infringing content, in ways which directly profit them. Furries are right to call them on it.
As for real names: the submitter gets a copy of a DMCA notice. Guess what? If they're pissed, now everyone knows who you are and what you drew. The issue of having your name associated with porn is a real one for many people - not just artists (and many furry artists are other things besides, including teachers, health workers, etc.). Some people will not hire you, or will fire you, based on such evidence. I say this as someone who chose to associate their real name with their furry activities, and who believes this is a positive choice - but also that it was my choice. Again, this could be avoided if IMVU offered more than the legal minimum to enforce copyright.
The main point remains, which is that you shouldn't have to threaten a lawsuit or reveal your real name for IMVU to take work down, if it can reasonably identify you as the copyright-holder based on other information. The DMCA protects against legal liability; but it shouldn't be confused with respect for content-creators, nor is it the limit of what can reasonably be done.
A DMCA is not a threat of a lawsuit, it is a takedown procedure, what is the difference between sending an email and filing a help ticket.
I KNOW that IMVU won't share your name because I have filed DMCAs for things on IMVU on multiple occasions.
I know other people who have filed them as well, as well as those who have had them filed against them.
For example, they could easily make a mailing list of those submitting DMCA requests, as budding artists who might be interested in university courses at for-profit institutions. (Before you dismiss this, consider how aggressively IMVU has sought revenue in every other opportunity.)
Most furry sites would seek to determine whether there was infringement, which does not require the exposure of your RL identity, just evidence proving your ownership of the material concerned.
I guess it's not really worth arguing about it, though, here or anywhere. IMVU are not likely to change their policies no matter how some furs feel about them.
The person that handles DMCAs is a lawyer.
I have used IMVU for YEARS. I have filed DMCAs and know people who have filed even more than I have.
Your information will not be shared with anyone.
A DMCA is a safe, legal procedure.
If you want to protect a LEGAL copyright. Why are you so afraid of using your LEGAL name?
Nothing in the relevant law makes it illegal to disclose DMCA takedown requests, or to use such material in other ways. In fact, there's a entire website dedicated to publishing such notices - one which IMVU links to repeatedly in its own takedown notice to explain how they work. (The links are, alas, broken - apparently they need to update it.)
Anyone can be a designated agent. It doesn't have to be a lawyer, and I would be surprised if IMVU were spending a lawyer's time on it. What they have is an 'administrator' - a job title, not a profession. Most likely it goes to the support team.
I believe you when you say you have had no problems to date. However, as far as I can see, IMVU has made no public representations that they will avoid sharing or destroy information you provide to them via a DMCA takedown notice. Indeed, if it did come to a lawsuit, they may be legally required to share the information, if they hold it when asked for it. (Even if you were talking to a lawyer on their end, you wouldn't be their client for the purpose of attorney-client privilege.)
Why are people afraid to reveal their real-life information in DMCA requests? Well, to take one example, people can LEGALLY say that you are a furry porn artist, if they obtain a copy of the DMCA notice (say, through a website similar to the one above, or through an inadvertent data disclosure). And they will LEGALLY be correct, and it may LEGALLY be fine for your company to fire you, and your religious relatives to disown you over it. Exaggeration? For many, yes - but ask Disney's managers what they think of their artists spending their spare time on porn.
Addresses can also be used to harass. The classic example is ordering pizza to your house, payable on delivery (I've had this happen), but things have recently got much uglier (as reported today by an Inkbunny user). Most artists don't have a P.O. box that they check regularly to use for this kind of stuff.
As such, while you may be able to prove that you own the work in question, you may feel that you cannot use the DMCA process to take it down without putting yourself at risk, unless you find someone to act as your agent (who must, in turn, be willing to expose their own real-life details). This is one reason why most furry sites (e.g. Fur Affinity, e621) require links and contact information for removal requests, not your real name and address.
The kicker is that the DMCA doesn't require a real name or address on the part of the person issuing the takedown notice, just contact information sufficient for them to receive a counter-notice (which does require a real name and address, so that person can then be sued by the alleged copyright-holder). They could allow a throwaway email address and be done with it. After all, the copyright-holder can hardly complain they didn't get proper notification if that's what they gave.
To sum up: pseudonymous identities are commonly used in furry fandom, for reasons both historical and current, and unless IMVU's process adapts to this there will be a reluctance to use it on the part of many furry artists, regardless of how likely it is that IMVU will actually use or release the information they gather.
IMVU has plainly stated in their privacy policy that they do not share information. And since the DMCA agent works for IMVU, they follow that same policy.
It would be illegal for a company to fire you for what you do in your spare time unless you are an acting company representative (as in, a spokesperson)
And honestly, I have offered to act as an agent for people to do DMCAs, so the agent option is always open.
If an artist wants to stay anonymous, a DMCA being a requirement will not prevent that.
But you know, asking someone to act as your agent is work, which people seem reluctant to ever do.
What you say about employment may be true in certain jurisdictions, but it is not true generally, especially in the USA. Look up at-will employment. The basic idea is that that because you can stop working for any reason, including the fact that you don't like your employer, they can stop employing you if they don't like you. There are limitations (many state-specific), but drawing porn is unlikely to be one of them. Employment contract terms also apply, but where such contracts are in place they tend to be biased towards the interests of the employer.
As you say, it is work to identify infringements of your copyright. I'd say it's up to IMVU, as a commercial party that makes tens of millions of dollars off the back of work created by others, to either police uploads itself or to make it as easy as possible for artists to say "hey, that's mine, stop selling it" - without having to reveal anything more than the proof that you own the work. The DMCA takedown process is nice to have as well, but they do that because it's the minimum required for them not to be legally liable for the infringement, which is quite a different thing.
And honestly, I am tired and done having to say the same things over and over and over again. So please, go find someone new to spew your words at.