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Creeps in the Community
3 years ago
General
In the last three years I've been struggling mightily against myself and the momentum I've built for myself as an artist, and outwardly that struggle has often been expressed in mass deletions, sudden returns, more mass deletions, and alot of weird behaviour that on its surface from an outsider perspective paints the picture of what I imagine is: A very silly, confused, and probably unstable and risky person. And that's not even going into the bad reputation around myself that I've built, earned, and consequently continue to adapt to and learn from in ways that to others may be confusing or outright damning, but are hopefully understandable.
But at the core of those personal struggles is a problem I've been coming to grips with, which is the impact I have socially, with what art I share publicly and how I share it, and who I interact with and how. This has expressed itself in many friendships being (poorly) ended, and me constantly revisitting my gallery to re-rate stuff from general to "mature", or just outright delete it. I'm deeply guilty and ashamed of the way I carried myself socially and artistically on this website since I first joined in 2009, and only in the last three years have I managed to start making progress to change for what I believe is the better.
I've withdrawn substantially from "the community", so to speak, and taken on more of a role of "Observer" and art dispensary, and with this change in attitude I've begun to notice just how creepy this place really is. I don't consider myself a good person, given my history and track record, and I'm guilty of quite alot of immaturity, ineptitude, carelessness, and outright malice in my past, and that may be true to this day. But what I've been seeing happening in "this community" disgusts me. So even though I'm not the best person to say anything about it, and don't particularly want to put myself out there to say it, I need to point something out.
In the last two years I've seen more and more folks inappropriately and publicly interacting with minors on this website, minors who publicly post their age. And it's getting out of hand lately in particular. If you're blocked by me on Twitter or FA, it's almost certainly because you're a minor I know about, or you're an artist or "community member" who I've observed publicly encouraging minors to explore kinks. EDIT: Or you post NSFW content under a general rating, which is absurdly negligent.
And I'm not talking about some "down the grapevine" gossip stuff that inspires me to block folks, I mean easily observable interactions for the public to see. But there is alot of gross stuff happening with minors in the "Toony community" among folks. And I'm disgusted seeing what I do see in public and especially from down the grapevine.
So, to the point I want to make to anybody who reads this and hopefully listens: Please, for the love of god, for the sake of your soul, and the souls of children, check a person's age on their profile or ask them their age, be observant and mindful of WHO you're actually talking and interacting with. And from the deepest pit of hell that my voice cries out from: Stop grooming children into a kink culture.
Minors shouldn't be interacted with at all in any fetish or kink context or scenario, no roleplay, not fetishy art trades, no kinky gifts. Anybody you know and talk to who are encouraging minors to draw kink stuff, drawing kinky gift art for them, roleplaying with them, stuff like that...it would be wise to give them a stern talking to. EDIT: Previously I stated that minors should only be told to go away and be rejected from our community. We clearly cannot prevent the flow of minors into our space because of how free and open the website and social media overall tends to be, and to put up a giant social wall of rejection to them will only leave them open and vulnerable to the worst actors possible. I can't offer up any particularly helpful words for this dilemma, the interactions one takes with minors needs to be given the utmost care though when they make themselves present within our 'community' because situations involving them are delicate and nuanced.
Because the culture that surrounds this community of toons and kinks...it invites creeps, and it invites the lonely and the desparate. It's a catalyst for corruption when not handled with care and maturity, and there are manipulative, narcissistic assholes out here who are just looking for the next thrill, regardless of who they are or what their age is.
The folks guilty of such behaviour I personally consider to have participated in grooming rituals, regardless of their intentions or whatever twisted and warped reasoning they can produce. These are children, and this little pocket of the art world, this "Toony community" is at its core, kink-centric, and that involves all of the intimate feelings associated with kinks, whether they're sexual or not.
So please take it from me, an idiot who started drawing kink art online as a 16 year old and ended up being influenced by manchildren up to twice my age...Take extraordinary care with who you interact with and how, and don't tolerate anybody participating in the grooming of minors or any behaviour that is suspicious and inappropriate around minors.
There are creeps in this community. Don't be one of them.
But at the core of those personal struggles is a problem I've been coming to grips with, which is the impact I have socially, with what art I share publicly and how I share it, and who I interact with and how. This has expressed itself in many friendships being (poorly) ended, and me constantly revisitting my gallery to re-rate stuff from general to "mature", or just outright delete it. I'm deeply guilty and ashamed of the way I carried myself socially and artistically on this website since I first joined in 2009, and only in the last three years have I managed to start making progress to change for what I believe is the better.
I've withdrawn substantially from "the community", so to speak, and taken on more of a role of "Observer" and art dispensary, and with this change in attitude I've begun to notice just how creepy this place really is. I don't consider myself a good person, given my history and track record, and I'm guilty of quite alot of immaturity, ineptitude, carelessness, and outright malice in my past, and that may be true to this day. But what I've been seeing happening in "this community" disgusts me. So even though I'm not the best person to say anything about it, and don't particularly want to put myself out there to say it, I need to point something out.
In the last two years I've seen more and more folks inappropriately and publicly interacting with minors on this website, minors who publicly post their age. And it's getting out of hand lately in particular. If you're blocked by me on Twitter or FA, it's almost certainly because you're a minor I know about, or you're an artist or "community member" who I've observed publicly encouraging minors to explore kinks. EDIT: Or you post NSFW content under a general rating, which is absurdly negligent.
And I'm not talking about some "down the grapevine" gossip stuff that inspires me to block folks, I mean easily observable interactions for the public to see. But there is alot of gross stuff happening with minors in the "Toony community" among folks. And I'm disgusted seeing what I do see in public and especially from down the grapevine.
So, to the point I want to make to anybody who reads this and hopefully listens: Please, for the love of god, for the sake of your soul, and the souls of children, check a person's age on their profile or ask them their age, be observant and mindful of WHO you're actually talking and interacting with. And from the deepest pit of hell that my voice cries out from: Stop grooming children into a kink culture.
Minors shouldn't be interacted with at all in any fetish or kink context or scenario, no roleplay, not fetishy art trades, no kinky gifts. Anybody you know and talk to who are encouraging minors to draw kink stuff, drawing kinky gift art for them, roleplaying with them, stuff like that...it would be wise to give them a stern talking to. EDIT: Previously I stated that minors should only be told to go away and be rejected from our community. We clearly cannot prevent the flow of minors into our space because of how free and open the website and social media overall tends to be, and to put up a giant social wall of rejection to them will only leave them open and vulnerable to the worst actors possible. I can't offer up any particularly helpful words for this dilemma, the interactions one takes with minors needs to be given the utmost care though when they make themselves present within our 'community' because situations involving them are delicate and nuanced.
Because the culture that surrounds this community of toons and kinks...it invites creeps, and it invites the lonely and the desparate. It's a catalyst for corruption when not handled with care and maturity, and there are manipulative, narcissistic assholes out here who are just looking for the next thrill, regardless of who they are or what their age is.
The folks guilty of such behaviour I personally consider to have participated in grooming rituals, regardless of their intentions or whatever twisted and warped reasoning they can produce. These are children, and this little pocket of the art world, this "Toony community" is at its core, kink-centric, and that involves all of the intimate feelings associated with kinks, whether they're sexual or not.
So please take it from me, an idiot who started drawing kink art online as a 16 year old and ended up being influenced by manchildren up to twice my age...Take extraordinary care with who you interact with and how, and don't tolerate anybody participating in the grooming of minors or any behaviour that is suspicious and inappropriate around minors.
There are creeps in this community. Don't be one of them.
I think that's by and large a problem with any even mildly sexual society. Kids exposed to it will ALWAYS have a bad time, especially if groomed by disgusting middle-aged men who just want roleplay partners.
I definitely think the 'toon' aspect is a double edged sword. It's descriptive and accurate, but also draws in children just on the principle of what 'toon' stuff comes from, for the most part.
The whole FA community is kink-centric. To say it isn't, is to blatantly lie and ignore the hundreds, if not thousands of artists who rely on the site for their income. But that doesn't mean people should be interacting with minors willingly. It's easy enough to see the creation date of an account and to be suspect of that.
I feel like the real crock pot of evil are the online chat rooms. That's where things get into real grooming territory.
But all that nastiness aside, this is a problem that's been growing for years, outside of the toon community.
Kids have access to the internet at a younger age than ever before, and parents are being irresponsible by letting their kids freely engage with strangers online.
The argument is always, who's to blame? Is it the kids, for looking this stuff up innocently? Is it the fault of the parents, for not doing ANYTHING to stop this from happening? Is it the Government's fault, for not heavily moderating the internet?
Clearly the problem here, isn't the occasional person who accidentally finds out they've got something kinky going on for toons. It's the people who are actively encouraging children to view this stuff and to engage with people in the community, despite knowing their age and how impressionable they are.
Creeps.
1. I never apologized for anything in this journal. I shared my personal experience and how it related to the observations I've been making, then gave my thoughts and opinions on those observations, and made a plea for decency. If you have a problem with that, then I'd suggest finding better problems to tackle.
2. I don't even know who you are, and if I blocked you on Twitter it can only be for one of two things: either me being exposed to NSFW art you might've uploaded without maturity settings on your account or tweet, or I saw you inappropriately interacting with a minor. Maybe even both. I've got this nifty habit where I check the profiles of people who interact with me on social media, and then make a quick judgement if I see any glaringly red flags or if I want to control what I'm exposed to.
3. That picture is a genuine gift for two friends of mine in celebration of their friendship together, and their personal victories against the toxic environments that bubble up in art and especially kink community, environments which I've labeled "Loon Land". I don't know if you read my whole journal, but the last note about my personal experience might illuminate why I would be happy enough to draw that for them. What am I venting with it exactly though, my joy? How is it vent art?
4. Whatever happened between Mavis and Scumz is their private business and how they handle it is up to them. If you want to get your knickers in a bunch over friends being happy for friends, then good luck with that endeavor.
5. Also, Loon Land is a spiritual place that perverse folks, both corrupt and wholesome, gather to. It's not a server. I don't know what server you're even talking about, but I've never been there, and I previously lived in Loon Land for more than a decade, and still own a condo there for vacations, so I'm pretty certain I don't know what in the Loon Land you're talking about.
And lastly, everything you said after "Loon Land" is honestly a confusing tangle of haughty blustering and silly posturing as far as I can tell. And it's inconsequential. I really don't know who you are, or care who you are, or care what you say about me. I'm not apologizing to a silly person making ridiculous statements with absurd accusations. Nor am I apologizing at all, for anything you might be concerned about regarding me.
I hope you and the people you're speaking for get a kick out of this response.
I'm not going to clear anything up for you, because you likely know far more about whatever you're talking about than I do, and whatever you're talking about doesn't seem like it's my business at all anyway. If you wanted me to unblock you, that's never happening, especially after this exchange.
If you're here to warn me about Scumz and his nefarious nature, then thanks, but no thanks. I'm not some child, I can navigate my relationships with people on my own, and all you've managed to do in the way of Scumz is accuse him of pointless, vague garbage, which makes me doubt any good intentions you may believe yourself to have.
Are you just here to try to make Scumz look bad? Because if you are, well, I have some unpleasant words for you. Sucks for you that he didn't want to be your friend, since I like him quite alot. Sucks for that server of folks that they lost him, he's pretty cool and knows how to not be inappropriately creepy. The fact that you stated he "simped for your sona, but didn't continue to get to know you" implies to me that the likelihood you've formed healthy relationships with people in the furry fandom is scarce.
Whatever this exchange, this conversation is, it's hardly bad at all for me. In complete honesty, you and the people you're speaking for have brought me nothing but great amusement and mild confusion. I feel quite entertained that you've chosen to imply that Mavis is guilty of something by name-dropping them in THIS JOURNAL, of all Journals. Even if you didn't understand what this journal is about to begin with, everybody else seems to have. So you might want to reflect on just what you're feeling, towards who, and for who, and why. And if you find yourself feeling emotions on someone's behalf, you should really question whether it's your battle at all, and if you're doing yourself any favours by publicly involving yourself with it.
Good luck with yourself.
With all due respect, I have absolutely no interest in your personal drama or beef with anyone you have mentioned. I just think that airing personal grievances on an anti-grooming post and derailing a discussion of a serious topic into petty friend-group drama is inappropriate and kind of disgusting and you should perhaps reconsider the context you are posting these messages in. If there is a time and place for such discussions, it is not here.
Thanks for pointing out the paramount principle that I neglected to stick to. I got a little too eager to reply to his craziness.
i do not care for any witty comeback you might try to write in response and do feel free to delete this post,but know that we wont swallow this shitty ego of yours,youre not welcome in this flattening community anymore. we are making sure to spread all this egocentric behavior of yours in the "loon land" like you say,and thats actually already happening everywhere, your own shitty atitude already helped to badmouth you to oblivion.
arent you aware that you blocking people with this last journal of yours,youre calling lots of people that used to be your fans as groomers?
but the cutest part of them all is this notion that you have left that loon land place full of creeps,when the reality is that you are still deep down inside, being one of the biggest creeps of them all. thanks for your time,i hope that your giant ego will be enough to shield you from all the drama that you just created by blocking others,theres still much more to come!
I feel pretty certain that you're Windy on this alt throw-away account, and if not, then that paints a substantially worse picture for this incognito group. Birds of a feather. Come back on another account if you'd like, or send someone else from your group.
There's a lot of signs in the comment itself that shows this is someone stalking you and a few others from discord and acting on some form of anger, such as using some former FA user's current names as opposed to what they were known as publicly in the past.
This is a comment coming from someone who seems to have malicious intent, which brings every sense of it's legitimacy into question, despite those clams of "your circle-jerk of friends will come to defend you". After all, I hardly know you, Tantric.
Really I'm just here for when friends post things.
Good for you for not being a pedophile, though. Congrats on passing the lowest bar you could find to make yourself feel good. Well done. Back pats for you. It must have taken a lot of effort.
I don't have a problem with your goal really, but then I don't think a lot of people would, with the way you've set it up. "Don't let creeps talk to minors" is pretty reasonable.
Unfortunately, I think your definition of what constitutes a creep in this post is a little broad. Very broad, actually. It's basically anyone who talks to them at all, isn't it? A definition like that is easy to grasp, but also lacks a lot of nuance, and, I think, has some ramifications (if adopted by the community) that you wouldn't like.
Because if we all, collectively and individually, choose to strictly abide by this, then a hypothetical minor trying to engage with this community is gonna find a largely cold and uninviting environment - except for the outliers. The people who, despite this rule, choose to seek out and engage with minors anyways. The people who, more likely than not, are the kind of creep you're ACTUALLY worried about.
By making everyone else refuse to engage with a minor, you'd make it even more likely they'll have interactions with these bad seeds. You'd be making it less likely that anyone else will notice these interactions and intervene, or warn them away from certain individuals. And you'd be putting the minor in a situation where they'll be more willing to put up with the creep, since (as you pointed out in your post) a lot of people who come to this community, regardless of age, are lonely. If there's only one person who wants to interact with them, then they WILL put up with them.
Making a simple "don't interact with minors" rule SEEMS like the right thing to do. To err on the side of caution. But imo, it's not gonna shield minors from creeps. It's just gonna shield everyone else from the uncomfortable tightrope walk inherent in actually engaging with these young people. It's the easy way out, basically.
It wasn't the most well thought out part of the journal, I'll freely admit. I'll edit the journal to reflect my intended spirit better, which I illustrated at the end of the journal that folks should be very careful about the nature with which they interact with people, and pay attention to and not tolerate those who would disregard the the boundaries of age.
Thank you for shining light on something I neglected to pay mind to when I first wrote this journal.
I appreciate that your journal now acknowledges that it is a problem without easy, convenient solutions. I think that's always an important thing to keep in mind with subjects like these.
And well, I'm timely if nothing else
Also I apologize if my comment came across as hostile or unnecessarily blunt or anything like that, it's really difficult to not come across that way when you have to give comments in one big chunk of text, while also conveying some kind of point that you're trying to get at
Thank you.