gosh, I'm sorry you're dealing with that ;w;

thank you~
I hope I'm overreacting really

In all honesty, you are having a totally legitimate reason.

Deep relationships takes time to build, and everyone needs to go at their own pace.

Never feel ashamed on what you cannot do, and focus on what you can do.

Thanks a lot~
While I'm introverted and stuff, I usually still know how to deal with people if I have to, I just prefer not having to, you know? x3
I don't mind stating what I think but I have troubles being "harsh enough" so people really understand what I wanna say.

If it is what it is, it is not harshness but simply being honest. And really nothing wrong with that, you are doing your part ;3

Well, what makes you say and feel that way? Are they also trying to message you too?

Well all I can really say is they feel very eager to uphold a relationship that I don't know where they think it's coming from.
And just general way of speaking is... too close at points.

Ahhhhh, I can understand what you mean. While I don't know the context of it all, you probably mean a lot to them which is why they are acting like that. Sometimes that's just how some people are and they can't control it since it brings them joy. Orrrrr, it could be the person has an obsession with you or your style being that you are quite talented and popular and just finds that all very attractive. But all in all, I can understand why you are so uncomfortable about the whole situation. Have you tried confronting them about it?

I'm actually afraid to do that to be honest. I don't wanna go as far as to call them a stalker or anything, just... weirdly obsessed almost. I wanna find a way to talk about that which avoids bigger drama from unfolding.
And yeah some of the things you said they actually admitted

Well, if they are more like the first type I mentioned, a "wake up call" conversation should probably happen. Just lay it out. You are an introvert and these kinds of feelings and emotions just do more harm than good in whatever relationship or friendship they are trying to cultivate and it brings you a lot of anxiety. Sometimes people need to hear that to snap them out of it as they could be in a sort of misleading trance thinking they aren't doing any harm and helping instead.

If is the other type of person I mentioned, you also need to be blunt, but professional about it. State that you are just an artist doing what you love and enjoy. That you (maybe) appreciate the gesture on how your work makes them feel, but that you have no interest in pursuing a relationship of that nature and to keep their (maybe) lusty comments to themselves as it just makes you feel like they are addicted to you

Hun, I'm sorry to hear about this issue. I know what you are feeling, but I myself am not a good artist or anything, and most people don't bother reading my stuff. I honestly just started being able to trust anyone and try to let people in again, but every negative interaction makes me regret trying... and I know how you feel there too. I'm an ambivert, in a way. I can be very vocal and talkative about things I love or show interest in, or with people I "have" to talk to (cops, doctors, etc.) but anyone or anything else I'm basically "don't talk to me, don't bother me, I want to be left alone". I hope things work out, and I hope people see this and understand that you are uncomfortable with them trying to force you into a friendship with them.

I know what you mean, bad interactions just make you wish you held back after all.
In all honesty I've had a lot of luck in that regard over the last few years, only very very rarely was there a bad encounter and people have generally been nice, has helped my depression a lot, but this now doesn't feel right at all.

No, I understand. I really wish people understood that you don't get to force yourself onto someone by just throwing money at the person. It doesn't matter the friendship, you can't just thrust yourself onto someone and assume that it is okay. All friendships need to be mutual.

You should probably make it clear that none of the tiers are a "You'll become friends with me" deal.
I don't know what you offer on patron, but if it offers supporter only streams or hangouts, you should make it clear that they purchased your time not your friendship.

I think that's a good way to put it.
Sometimes I just wish people had this kind of... "common sense" from the get go. Don't know, maybe I'm overreacting is all I can hope.

Just...it's up to you to tell folks no. Some out there think they can buy friendship, if your not comfortable with them let em know. Sometimes folks juat like to Chay. Hopefully they give you space, just don't be afraid to speak your mind. >3

I honestly think I would have the courage to do that with newer patrons, but that person has supported me for a long time now,
hence why I don't really know how to tell them to back off a bit I guess.

You should put this on the Patreon and a clear statement. Yes, it’s money, but but that’s money doesn’t come with an obligatory friendship.

Probably will do. Just wish people had that sort of understanding from the start.

The plight of the artist: I liked your comment; that doesn’t mean I like /you./

A lot of people online are like that - You know, very friendly, but not great at observing personal space. Maybe because the furry fandom is very welcoming. Keeping a polite, professional distance is a smart thing to do!
Hopefully this journal clears that up with people.

I think you're right. Like when I'm answering comments or notes I'm a.. very different version of myself, much more happy and welcoming, cause I wanna be nice to everyone who's interested in my stuff. When they go too far I usually become more distant and they pick up on it, but this time they're reeaaally not picking up on that at all xd

Make it real clear you're not interested. It sucks but sometimes you really just have to say no.
Patreon supports artist, it doesn't buy friendship. They're in the wrong here, not you.

It's really hard though when the person has been a supporter for a few years now.
And just thinking about how much this might happen in the future...

I guess the adage "money can't buy you friendship" didn't stick :v

I don't think it would be too rude to say no to people trying to force you into friendships - and if it is, they were kinda rude first so it's fair play in my book lol

It's kinda rude, but they are not trying to be, is part of the problem, otherwise I could tell them off more easily I suppose xd

If it were me, I'd wanna be told. Yeah there's probably going to be some embarrassment, maybe disappointment on theur part, but in the long run it's better for the offending party to be made aware. You can be assertive and frank without being mean. If they're a decent sort of person they'll back off.

What gets me so much though is I don't wanna be mean anymore and just the frustration that this could all be avoided with a bit more common sense right from the start

If only human interractions were free from awkwardness! ^^ Unfortunately it's part of the whole human-condition-package. We're all cringey at some point in our lives, but without others to point out what we miss, we'll never improve.

If it helps to hear, you're not being mean by being real with them. You're putting yourself out there to help this other person understand the dynamic of parasocial relationships rather than letting them go on believing they have a friendship that doesnt exist.

I've seen people say "parasocial relationship" a lot by now, kind of makes sense, never really thought about it that way.
Maybe cause I wouldn't really do that myself, because again, common sense x3

As small as I am on the internet, I get the random person somehow getting my discord and adding me to try to become friends. Honestly I don't do that, I have a small handful of friends, also on single digits that's I talk to and when someone randomly tries to get friendly quickly, I make small talk and then close the Convo.
They usually don't try again

Yeah that's when people are able to read the room and pick up on you being uninterested/distant about the conversation.
I've tried to be very distant but it's like they don't notice, plus with them being a main patreon supporter I can't just ignore them completely soo I kinda can't be as distant as I'd like.

It's not so much an issue for me but I feel like, as a highly talented artist, people are drawn to you and try to be friendly, either because they're fans and want to be friends with you or because they think if they can be your friend, maybe they'll get some free art some time.
Could be wrong but my best friend was in a similar position. He did amazing work and he got constant messages from people to be his friend but he was and still is shy about that and had trouble telling them no.

Oh yeah, the "Be my friend so I can get the occasional free picture" type of people.
Surprisingly those I've had to deal with a lot in my first years on FA, not so much lately.
Sometimes I wonder if I've gotten big enough where people are a little more scared to do this kinda stuff, but it sounds so egotistic and arrogant that I won't go there x3

If people are trying to form parasocial relationships with you, that’s entirely on them. It’s an unhealthy decision for both parties and you should feel no remorse to remedy the situation however you see fit. It would do well for everyone involved in these kinds of scenarios to remember that things like Patreon and commissions are, ultimately, a business transaction, not a personal get-together.

I know what you mean, but it's hard to be that business-like about something like art where there's a lot of passion involved and a lot of contact to people, even just in the form of answering comments, which I always love to receive. I try to be distant when I notice people getting the wrong idea but sometimes they don't pick up on that at all.

There’s nothing wrong with behaving in a friendly way towards your clients and patrons. Having a friendly disposition towards someone you’re in a professional relationship with and actually maintaining that professional relationship are not mutually exclusive. This art page of yours is your business and your patrons should have the discipline to operate within the professional parameters of said business, not the other way around. If they overstep your boundaries, they’re frankly asking for you to put them back into those boundaries, or to terminate the transaction. They shouldn’t have tried to engage in behavior that is unhealthy for both of you.

Thank you~
Still hoping I might be overreacting after all

That seems to be a trend folks seem to think. That they can buy friendships with money, and that just isn't a thing that is possible who put value in friendships.

I just don't get why people think this would work out. I've brought up "common sense" so much by now that I wonder if this is not as much common sense as I think. Maybe cause I didn't grow up on parasocial relationships as the internet wasn't as big when I was younger.

Honestly, you state that you want to associate with people you've known on a long term basis. People often throw the term "Friend" around very loosely to the point that they don't understand the context. Everyone, including myself are acquaintances. Friendship must be earned.

It's not even a.. long-term kind of thing, there are 2-3 people out there I have clicked with instantly. Sure giving friendship time helps, but after years of me trying to be distant.... you know?

Ah, so you're not much of a people person. Which is understandable. Some people like their privacy and enjoy the occasional conversation.

For me, I tend to build friendships. I learn about the person over time. Get to know them. Asking for Art and RPs get toxic fast.

It's a paranoid thought that you've latched onto, and is only debilitating you.
You need to be able to treat the patreon like a business, and understand there needs to be a professional separation from the individuals who are paying you to support your business. If they use it to become closer, that is not your prerogative to pursue.

I know what you mean, unfortunately I don't have it in me to be, let's say, "that distant" about it all, especially patreon where I'm grateful people support me.
Me trying to say "I do not know where you have this idea from, but we are not friends" is so harsh.
But I AM paranoid about backlash, like them getting angry at me for stating my mind and show up at my door at some point, that's something I'm definitely paranoid about.

That's something I always worry about too... >.>;
So a true friendship takes time to build. u.u

In some cases yeah, in others I click with the person instantly.
But after years of not clicking one would try to stop trying I think xd

Totally~ Xd

I vote you make the tier and have it cost 6969$

And have no limits on how many people can take it x3

Hey, if you need someone to talk to about this in confidence please feel free to reach out to me. This is something I used to really struggle with.

Thanks a lot for the offer, I'll keep it in mind~

Yeah, I'm the same way, I only really have, one, maybe two close friends. So you're not alone on that aspect.

Sometimes, people will just come and say hi, and stuff, and want to be friends, but, they quickly vanish as they arrive, because I'm an introvert, and actually takes a fair bit for me to open up. c.c

As to how to deal with it, uh, I wish I knew heh... same boat there I'm afraid.

I'm usually hard to open up as well, like I'm trying to be nice but distant at the same time to not give anyone any false hopes.
I feel like some people don't pick up on that enough though

*nods* While I can't relate, I can understand that. And I can see how that would be troublesome.

I’ve been through this myself. Being professional is not being unfriendly. Your Patreons are fans of your work and are supporting your work. They are not supporting you. Remember this. If you feel a responsibility, it’s to continue to produce your art.

You have thousands of fans. You need be in an environment that makes your feel productive. If talking with a fan makes you feel nervous, you owe it to all your other fans to step away. It’s not because you don’t care; you’re just being professional. If they take it personally, then you don’t want them as a Patreon.

Also, consider getting an admin (just like celebrated have agents). They should handle communication with fans. If you need any help, feel free to ask. Us artists should always help each other out :3

Thanks a lot for the kind words~
I was able to maintain that "productive feeling environment" ever since I moved irl, without anything too weird on the internet going on, either. Like roughly 2 years at this point,
maybe I just forgot how to deal with these kinda situations better. It can really make me not wanna draw at times and then what I do end up drawing is lower quality, so I guess you're right.

classic parasocial relationship. Just like with YouTubers and streamers, the viewer sees a bunch of stuff made by you, really likes it, and starts to internally register looking at your work like they're interacting with you, even though you experience nothing on the opposite end. They build this "relationship" completely unbeknownst to you, and when you finally get to meet, they feel way closer to you than you do to them. Just clarify that you're not friends (say this without being rude if possible), and maybe link them the wikipedia article if you're feeling extra spicy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paras.....al_interaction)

Thanks a lot for the explanation, I didn't know this was something people do, even if they might not actually do it intentionally.
I mean I've noticed people trying to be... "overly friendly" on occasion, but I tend to be very distant in those cases and they usually pick up on it.
This time it feels like they are trying extra hard, though.

 S2-Freak the strongest thing you did is admit you struggles, so top tier courage there. Secondly, friendships are two way streets, gotta go both ways. Thirdly, Don't rush to make friends until you are friendly with yourself. Once you know yourself, your will be certain on the friends and loves you find.
Even if that means you gotta say "Shut up duke21, your post is bad." You're just getting closer to find the right people to be around.

That's another thing, though. Uh, how do I say this..
It's like when you're a big streamer and from time to time randos pop into the stream, say some weird stuff and end up being banned quickly. Since you're "big" you can afford weeding out certain folks and still have your following. I've already had to ban a lot of people over the years and always I wonder if that could have been avoided, since this kinda furry community ain't exactly "mainstream" and there aren't just infinite people that'll ever show interest in what you do.
But I guess quality of people always goes over quantity. I don't even wanna quantify human beings like that, sounds awful xd

I have never streamed, that is a virtual marathon conversation that you half prepare, and half improvise. So, kudos to you on that one. I assume you put up regulations in chat, at least I hope you are given that option. Some people didn't follow it while other did. Maybe a verbal reminder here and there as you stream.

Besides that, I Watch you mostly because of your storytelling, light humor, and comic art style. I write short stories, but I tried comic art and am not proud of the "concoctions" I sadly created. Again, You have Your interesting stories, Your detailed comics, Your streaming, Your life. And you are not purposely being rude/disrespectful for your own self pleasure. You are caring and sharing Your talents. And They are damn good to say the least.

Quality over quantity, you are not being awful or rude. My comic drawings are awful and rude. Honest Truth.

How do you mean "uncomfortably close?" are people like assuming you'd like to do RP or something?

In that case I'd actually just say no and completely ignore them if they don't accept it.
This is just like... a normal, honest dude trying be friends, just way too hard I feel, like calling me by my real name all the time ( even though I usually NEVER even use it online ), calling me buddy and friend and whatnot, wanting to meet up irl, knowing roughly where I live ( the country at least ) and then randomly speaking my language to appear close to me, and so on.
It's honestly little things to accumulate and go under my skin after a while, like they are... fanboying just a bit too hard.

Damn, I hope you’ll be able to sleep well tonight bub, sometimes getting “too close” is one hell of a risk

I did get 5 hours so I call that an absolute win~

That’s good at least, hope you’ll get more later on

I'm someone who likes to message creators and whatever here and there so let me tell you how I handle it so you can understand the other side of things.

I NEVER expect anyone to interact with me because I messaged them or whatever. It's cool when they do but hey, they are not obligated to interact with me whatsoever. And that's also cool!

You don't need to feel bad or make excuses or whatever. The way you are feeling is totally valid, you don't owe anyone of these people anything. X3

Take care!

Never excuse your discomfort with something by saying, "But it makes me money!"

Is the money really enough to offset how distressed it makes you feel? Your supporters shouldn't expect more of you than you're willing to give, and there's a chance you can neglect your own well-being when trying to please your fans. Your art will suffer if you don't look after yourself.

Yes, customer relations are important, especially with Patrons, those who are repeat customers who really enjoy your work and want to support it. But it's a business relationship, and you should set boundaries, and do your best to be professional. Figure out how close you're willing to let people get, and then draw the line, letting none pass. It make take time, but they'll eventually learn that this relationship is not a personal one, but a professional one between Artist and Supporter.

I'm sure others have given you good advice in the week since you've posted this, but I felt compelled to give my two cents to help out a fellow Creator. If you need more advice on handling customer relations, I'd suggest looking up The Three Jaguars. M.C.A. Hogarth has written some excellent articles on stuff like this, after she had to figure out how to sell her Art as a business. I'd recommend her stuff any day.

Anyway, I should head off to bed. Hope this comment finds you well and that you're able to strike the proper balance with your Supporters. =)