Could maybe partner up with another animator? That way can focus on model creation while they do animations for clients?

For sure - this seems like the fundamental choice in response to the fundamental question. (Similarly, it's what Fuzz ended up doing as his work grew in popularity!)

It's a bit of a crossroads between "do you want to keep growing this into an actual business / start forming partnerships?" or "are you happy with where things are at right now, doing this as a hobby?"

Both answers are great; you just gotta decide which one's right for you. You aren't a publicly-traded company; you're one guy doing art for fun. If that's all you want to be, that's beautiful and wonderful.

I'm sure a lot of people would be delighted to hear that you're expanding, but you don't owe that to anyone if it's not what you're interested in doing.

Opportunity knocks. Will Ru answer and create his porn empire?

I'm assuming these models are not usable anywhere other than whatever you create them in. Or, in other words, these aren't usable for any of the different FaceRig type programs out there, nor VRChat, yeh?

Unfortunately not, the fluff is not real-time compatible at all.

Aww.

Though now I'm wondering what a VRChat capable model from you could look like, still. Take away the realistic fluff, and you've still got an amazing looking rig, I'd bet <3

The fluff is too powerful, is what you're saying :3

team up with p2design to provide discount codes to buy his animation course :P

which btw i think might be on sale still (not shilling, i just really like it)

I mean, I'd probably be down with just commissioning a model from you by itself, and then just have fun making renders with it in Blender from there in my own time.

That might have to be the sort of person I work with going forward!

Well, consider me interested. 💛

Same here! I already use blender for making or modifying models to 3d print... mostly modifying though, as my creating skills are wanting. Could be interesting in learning how to animate though.

This was definitely my primary interest as well!

I would fall into that category as well as I am really slowly digging through blender and having more toys is always fun. :3

I'd be interested in this, your animations are fantastic but with a good model to play with, I could be pretty self-sufficient with Blender afterward :)

I'm fine with this. I wanted the model to get into modeling and animation with a model I like

Maybe...

Model cost
Animation cost

And also have the model comissioners know that their model could be used to spice up the background of other animations? Such as the models walking past in your most recent one could've just been any old models you had laying about.

Prolly doesn't fix the problem though. But I just don't see a great way out of that that isn't unfair to SOMEONE. Especially you.

Though as someone who has only one 2d piece from you (and loves it and would absolutely get another when money allows) I get wanting to return to getting more from an artist you love. Especially since, with a model already done, animation work would presumably be far cheaper and faster.

Animations were already their own separate price, it's more about being available to do them in the first place. I like to be able to say I'll be around to at least occasionally make animations for people once they get a model from me, but if I make enough models eventually that's gonna become hard to keep up with. But I also hate the idea of saying "Here's your model now fuck off and leave me alone", that kinda sucks too. xD

It's a toughie!

What I kind of thought, have openings for models for a potential set schedule, but if you feel like, on occasion, making an animation or two, make a journal post for those who already have one made saying "hey, I'm going to open up for anims, be it ych or comm, and I'll open up a form. It won't be fcfs, but what piques my interest/fits the prompt the best." That way, people who have gotten a model from you before aren't just. Dropped from the earth, and it opens up the occasional cameo/commission. And you could even implement a cool down of sorts for people who have gotten anims from you before, where it gives others a chance.

You could do commissioned ideas but with your own existing models.
Plenty of people who like your characters and would more efficient.

Could also make new models that appeal to many people to maximize time and appeal.
Or maybe simple variations of models like an easy color change to existing model.
Ie: maybe some more general male models /body types and popular characters Renamon, Loona ect.

I think all that fits under the "Don't take model commissions" umbrella, basically what you're describing there. :P I'd like to be able to make other people's specific characters for them but I just dunno how I'd keep up with it.

Sounds like a business expansion is needed. Maybe find a few animators that don't like modeling work and do a referral program. That way you get to create the models and they get to just do animations

I am no pro in this, but at first I would think how much time is needed for the model in average and how much is it for animation. And from there go like 30-30-30 (model-animation-personal work or whatever you decide). I know it will limit "as much as I can" for model creation.
It mas sound bad, but people need to understand that you can burn out yourself, or get into bad state just because it is overwhelming. Let's say model creation takes a month (no idea really, just an example). Short animation is 14 days. And the rest is 14 days for better count. It will give you 6 models with comfortable time, 12 animations and 12 other work of your choice per year. In my opinion, quite a bunch for the quality of your work.
Customers can be demanding, but you are the one to draw a line and keep yourself comfortable and in a good shape for maintaining the quality. And I believe people will understand this, as I know an artist with 2-3 years long queue with people happily waiting, because it is worth. Long waiting? Sure! But it is better to get an amazing model and animation in a year, than not get one at all.
I would start from some time consumption check up, and then divide time to each type of project. It isn't the best to go "as much as possible", because then some less aware people will abuse it. And that's not helpful either.

Additionally, in my opinion your model quality is not that expensive given what you provide with it. And if it bothers someone, they can go get a cheaper, less good one instead. I wish I had money to get a model from you - I don't, which makes me save = I have to wait.
Production of movies take years and people wait. Production of games take years and people wait. Building a house takes months and people wait. Same it is with art - people who know the value will wait. Others? Well, that is not your concern in the end. As bad as it sounds, you will never please everyone, that's how it is.
Anyways, either I was able to help or not... I wish you the best with solving the issue and in life in general. Take care, best of luck and have a superb day! :)

Personally the quality you get for the model in terms of commissions is already more than enough for me. If i ever manage to get a model from you i would be content with just the model and then do renders and animations with it myself in blender.

while not perfect perhaps a cooldown timer, so if you get an animation your put on cooldown until you can get another

That delays the problem until such time as I've made enough models that the cooldown is ending on people before I can get through them all. :P That's the core problem, if I'm to be available for people after making them a model at all, eventually I'll hit a point where I can't keep up with it no matter what limits are put on it.

hmm dang your right that really is just a "kick the can down the road" solution to the overall demand you face, if i recall right in the past you've offered model comissions with a mini looped animation along with it to make sure it works , perhaps do that and then be firm with a "thats your lot", if people want more in future they can use the model but seek other animators or if desperate for your animations auction off an occasional "ych" style animation or patreon raffle it or something

I also like to keep models up to date as I learn new things and improve my rigging and that would also pile on more and more as I make more models for people.

This is the problem, yeah? What if you slightly lowered the price to create a model and animate it, but added a charge to update a model? A commissioner could pay a one-time fee for you to create a model and a separate one-time fee for that model to be put in a single animation. Then, in the future, when they want their model to be put in a new animation, they must not only pay the fee for a new animation, but also a fee to update their character model to whatever your current process looks like.

That way, more people are inclined to purchase models and animations, but if they want animations on an on-going basis, they also need to pay for you to keep the models up-to-date. If they don't, there's no reason for you to keep them up-to-date since you aren't using the models anyway. And if you don't update your process, then people don't pay the update fee.

Win-win?

I don't like the idea of that because a lot of the reason I update models is for my own enjoyment. Working with an out of date rig is a path to frustration, and improving the visuals makes the end product better which is something any artist wants, so I'm a little hesitant to do that. Also I don't really want to nickle and dime people if I can avoid it. :P

I was assuming this would come into effect when you had more models than you could reasonably update for your own enjoyment. You've got your own models, which obviously you're going to keep updated because they're what you want to work with, but it doesn't seem out of the question to charge people to update a model after the point you've got more models than you can handle.

I also assumed that there would be people who would go months or years between getting animations. I would focus on current commissioners and my own projects before updating models that are seeing little-to-no use.

It's not really nickle-and-dime-ing people if you only add the update fee when a model needs to be updated, and also that's why I proposed lowering the initial costs; if model+animation+update equals what you currently charge for model+animation (or, later, animation+update equals what you currently charge for animation), then you're not really adding costs to your customers except when necessary and in fact lowering costs when you don't need to add that additional work of updating a model.

Course, I have no idea how frequently you update models or how much goes into that.

Adding an update fee was also my first-thought to this problem, too. The way I would imagine it working is the update fee isn't optional, it would be required when someone who commissioned you to make a model comes back to you at a later date and asks to commission you for a new animation.

This fee would help you take less volume of works so you can continue to focus on quality of current works, I think. :D

But I do not think you should lower any model costs in accompanying a potential update fee. I think that might exasperate the problem because there would be more models commissioned to you to update later.

I wish you well in whatever you decide works best for you!

I mean -- I'm an animator and have the exact problem of not having models. I can make environments, sims, and animations. But then it gets into the whole collaboration problem, and whether certain interests / time align and is its own problem set too. Don't know if it saves time overall, or costs too much sanity / energy points as it were. Just a thought, tho.

Trying not to repeat the previous points others have made here but I'm a Blender 3d Animator and 3d character maker.
I do cheap 3d animations for people and more often then not I have to create basic characters based off the commissioners character reference for the job. I then use the character for the animation and keep the character after. I give them the character sometimes if they pay a bit extra.

I do struggle to get commissions sometimes so handing the animations out to people like me would take the burden of you Ruaidri. There are enough animators out there that you could turn to who would appreciate learning from your experience as your animations are amazing.

It would be a shame for you to stop offering model commissions. I always look forward to seeing your characters having some good fun.

This sounds like a bit of a supply and demand problem, in that there is a lot of demand and you only have so much supply (which would be time and effort in this case).
Though, take this with a grain of salt since this is coming from an arctic doof who has no experience with comms ^~^;

One way to alleviate some of that would probably be to increase prices on animations or model work moving forwards.
It could alleviate some of that strain or at the very least make ya a little more money for all the work!
Peeps could still get a model or an animation too, it'd just cost a bit more!

Another way might be to alternate between model commissions being open and animation commissions being open.
That could slow down things a bit and make it more manageable with the schedule your working.

Definitely a conundrum.

Perhaps the best thing to do in the long run is just to pace yourself and take it slow?

Thinking about it I don't really see another way to deal with this, particularly if you wish to continue your 2d work, which of course I think you should do as well.

I mean, IMO, if you can supply a model with its rig and controllers then the recipient can just make the animation themselves if they did not pay for it. Blender is free and all that and there do exist fairly open and free motion capture options ranging from camera tracking to using VR tracker setups. Failing that there are AI assisted animation toolsets that are free as well.

I'd say offer modeling only commissions and be a lot more selective about animating. I'm not familiar with your personal work process or how long it takes you to do your work so I won't push one way or another, but do what is most comfortable for your health x.x.

If I were to buy a model I'd definitely do so with the goal of animating it myself, though I'm still trying to convince myself that I can do the modelling and rigging part too, which would help with keeping a consistent style between the main character model and other props/characters/etc. In fact, I'd probably have trouble coming up with an animation for you to do since I most often pair up my characters for most "action" scenes, and getting two (or more) models plus an animation all at once... I'd have to be quite a bit suspiciously wealthier to reasonably make that happen.


I guess in the ideal case there would be a market of animators who could step in and take animation commissions using the models that you've created, but I'm not sure that really exists yet. The market for pretty much anything furry and 3d is pretty limited it feels like.

Or maybe I'm just getting distracted dreaming of an EvilBanana animated, Ru modelled collab...

You know you've posted good tutorials lately. What if you redirect the energy and time you spend on animation commissions towards tutorials and videos for how to animate instead? That way you train a generation to do their own animations with your models (or at least some artists to take commissions for them).

You're only one person and there's a limit on what you can do as a single person. With some teaching that can scale better and you could spend more on models (I would definitely be interested in one 👀).

I think you could just sell the model and rigging separately, even if not tied to animations directly, could still be used to make renders and such

It sounds like not taking model commissions is the smart path. You can’t be all things to all people.

Well, from what I remember another artist did:

You can set a time limit on how often someone can get a model and such. Like, once every 8 months, they can get models and stuff from you. You can set the timetable yourself, but still. But you can also try just limit it to one model per person in total. I can understand some folks wanting, say, 5 or so done to have a story made with them, but limiting the amount someone can get in total can help reduce the amount of work.

Just maybe try a model ground between the two wants. More leaning towards 'everyone is somewhat is happy' mindset.

I was planning on getting one of these eventually and assumed it'd be "Here's the model, have fun" or, with an extra cost, one animation. I guess I'm just good at foreseeing problems after a lifetime of causing so many of them b:

As much as I don't like it, I feel like that might have to be the deal going forward, if I'm going to be able to make models for people at all. Just can't promise being available for continual work for everyone or it'll become impossible to keep that promise almost immediately.

Like others have said, I'd be happy to just get a model from you that I can play with in Blender. I wouldn't be too worried about having it up-to-date or even need an animation to go with it (even though I absolutely do adore your animations).
Maybe if you like to keep people's models up-to-date, you could offer it as a paid update? That way people who really want the newest for their model could still get it if they wanted to pay a little extra for the time and work it would take to update, and then people who are happy with the current version could stick with what they got but still pay for an update in the future if they'd like.

Maybe a bit out-of-the-box, but...what if you created a sort of 'default scene' or two, just something simple with one of your existing models, that you could readily plug any other model into. Then put together a guide for how somebody could integrate their model into that scene.

Basically, give people who commission a model from you an easy entry-point into learning how to make their own animations with their new model. It would be easier for them to ask for help if the 'tutorial scene' is the same for everybody, etc. Could also serve as a good way for other 3D artists to learn how your models are intended to be used, so commissioners could go to them for animation if you're not open.

You should definitely find a rigger to outsource. But I would also say limit the animations to what you want to do - it's not as if there are not other animators to do work with those models after all.

If you want to focus on model work - definitely just say that outright and say "animations aren't open now" or that they'll be open at a later date.

First off, I have to say that I love both your models and your animations. Every time I see one, it's like "Wow!" I've always been tempted to ask for a model from you, because....WOW!


Now, as to your problem...What do you like doing more? Do you feel that at some times you're more into model creation, or more into making animations?
Perhaps when you open commissions, you do so based on how you feel, or what you're in the mood for.
For example:
"I'm now opening 5 commissions for new models to be created by me. Each will come with one animation."
-- or --
"I'm now opening 8 commissions for animations on existing models that I've created in the past for my past customers."
-- or (mix it up) --
"I'm not opening 2 new model creations (with one animation), and 5 new animations for existing models I've made in the past."

Play around with time management, and what tickles your fancy at the time.

Maybe this is my naïve view of the situation but, at least from my perspective, I don't see a problem with being upfront with your clients and saying like, "hey, if I do this for you, that doesn't put you to the front of my queue, and that queue is gonna get longer over time the more people want stuff from me." Your bandwidth to do models and animations isn't gonna get larger, but... it's also not technically gonna get smaller, either, which sort of sounds like the 'feeling' you're getting that's worrying you? You just need to communicate to people that you cannot regularly/continuously do work for them, at the expense of doing work for other new clients too.

That does seem to be the only answer to the situation I think, even if I don't like it. Model commissions might have to become a "You get your model, you get one animation if you want it, then you're on your own" thing. Just feels bad to do that though. :P

Maybe a more concise way of wording this is... It sounds like you're saying "the demand/number of interested people is too high!" And that, emotionally, you're equating the letdown of not being able to satisfy 100% of the demand for your work, with the letdown of just... not doing work for anyone, instead. If that's true, I think it's important to acknowledge that basically no content creator is ever going to be able to satisfy 100% of their demand, and... that's okay.

It's not exactly the demand... it's more that making a model isn't really a one and done situation, it becomes recurring work. Having a small handful of people want to work with me repeatedly is manageable, but it can only grow so far before it becomes the only thing I can do. Or, I just don't let it be recurring work by stating it clearly from the start, you takes your model and you leave. It just sucks to have to do that. x3

Well, it's only reoccurring work if you allow it to be. What's wrong with taking your occasional model commission, occasional model+animation commission, and then once in a while opening up for just an animation in general, and that animation might, or might not, be someone who's commissioned you for a model in the past? It's not like making a model for someone automatically obligates you to regularly take on new work for that person, independently of your queue of other things you want/need to do.

I guess it sounds like you think there's two extreme cases and nothing in the middle: doing a model and one animation for someone, and NOTHING for them after that... or doing a model and animation for someone, and then having to regularly do MORE animations for that person, compounding with all the other stuff you're wanting to do.

var ru = Current.Fuzzbutts["Ruaidri"];
Current.Fuzzbutts.Add(ru.Clone());

have you considered making animations with ONLY adhina from now on

problem solved

Seconding this solution :P

Maybe an approach similar to what I did: "I'd like to fund an animation of your own content. Like a producer. No further action necessary. Finish when you can." (Though a real producer would be like... "TIME LINES! SCHEDULES! GO FAST!"...not me though.)

Orrrrr...do what other people have done. Form a studio. Hire a team. Go Business!

Eugh, business. x3 I've endeavoured to avoid being 'businessy' as much as possible. I just wanna be a dork that makes furry porn! :P

Seems like you've fallen victim to your own skill and fame!

I think this is one of those situations where you can try to balance the outcomes in a way that it tries to squeeze out as much benefit as possible while minimizing the suckage.

So, you have a supply and demand problem, and you could go full capitalist and make an auction for each slot, which, given the high demand, you'd probably fetch crazy prices! But I know you like sharing (such a cool guy <3) and would probably feel bad by the natural status quo of your models and animations ending up in the hands of only the furs with the most disposable income.

Soooo... you could also have a portion of slots that go to a raffle. Fixed price and thus affordable but luck-based, not everyone is going to get one, but at least they have the chance.

By combining both approaches, you...
1.- reap a lot of well-deserved economic benefit
2.- give the furs with $$$ the option to get a guaranteed slot
3.- also give the others a chance to get a model (+1 animation slot if they can afford it) from you at a price they can afford

Seems like the most equitable way to spread out your limited work capacity, while also reaping economic benefit for yourself?

Why not outsource the creation of personalized models by just selling a base model on gumroad and have someone else tweak it to their preferences? You'll miss out on some commissions though, but there's a pretty health market for VRChat avatars.. >.>

I have been thinking about maybe switching more toward just making and selling models instead of doing commissions, to be honest. Bet if I made some interesting characters and featured them in an animation or two there'd be people who wanna snag 'em!

I know I'd want to shag-- err... snag 'em. Sounds like a fun idea. :3

As an option: hire another employee or just try to do 2-3 orders with someone in collaboration (and see what happens). Maybe this will be the first step to organize your own 3d animation studio. Because all people in any industry reach a point where they can't do something simply because: there is a lot of work, one employee, and 1 day is 24 hours (and this will not be enough). The most logical thing is cooperation with someone. Yes, it adds other problems, but solves the main problem. That's why there are specializations: 3d modeler, animator, environment specialist, VFX specialist, leadership positions and so on.
In other words: the industry has long answered what to do when demand significantly exceeds supply. But the main question is: "Will you do it and develop further or will you stay at approximately the same level of productivity?" =)

For example, you can take survival in the forest.
The first situation: One person in the forest. He needs to get water and food, he needs to collect building materials and firewood, he needs to build a camp.
Situation two: Three people in the forest. the 1st person deals with water and food, the 2nd person deals with building materials and firewood, the 3rd person builds a camp.
To summarize: According to research, 3 people consume 3 times more resources, but their productivity for 1 unit of time (well, for example, 1 hour) starts from a value of 3.5-3.6 (or more, it depends on experience) times more. This is the base. =)

Man, I wish I made the kind of money required to hire other people, basically build an animation studio. Gonna need a lot more patreon subscribers for that to work. x3

There are always options.
1. How much are you willing to spend on development?
2. What is needed?
3. What can be optimized and improved at the expense of this money?
For example, he can buy some assets to make the image more interesting, or buy music, and so on).
Improving the quality of the product leads to an improvement in attractiveness, and this leads to an increase in interest and gives more subscribers. That is, if you want it, then you need to sit down exactly on the ass and make a business plan where it will be written what you can order on the side, and what you will have to do yourself.
Well, for example, the environment. It needs to be made by someone or bought. Or can you even say:
"Hey Heni, do you want to make an environment?"
And I'll answer:
"I just installed a Blender a week ago, but yes I want to! And I will even do it for free, but you will help!" XD
Or another option. Ask your friends or good acquaintances who could help you.
Or try to make a collaboration with someone of your skill level, divide the profit in half and see what it will give.

Just look at the indie game developers who somehow develop games and they manage to do cool things. This gives additional profit for the creation of new cool things. Or another example: "Hazbin Hotel". One of the leading animators took orders here for the FA. =)

In general, life is a very multifaceted thing. And if you have set yourself a goal, then you just need to take and deal with organizational issues based on the modest resources that are available. It's just that a 1,000-mile journey begins with a modest first step. =)

You can set yourself a goal to make a short cartoon. For example, for 20 minutes. Okay
1. Need a script. Look who writes what here on FA. For example, I know that one of my subscribers can write a short story for modest money.
2. 3d models. What can I buy? For example, you can buy an expensive scene in the forest. Yes, it's a lot of money, but to make the scenario unfold only in this location.
3. Voice acting.
3.1 Buy a sound card and a microphone (with a filter and so on) of an elementary or intermediate professional level and ask friends to voice it.
3.2 Make an animatic without a voice, but purely with sounds or music (hello Pixar). You can order music again from us here on the FA (or buy it on the corresponding website) and it won't be very expensive.
4. Ideally, still make a storyboard. (We have a lot of people drawing on the FA.)
5. Video editing. This is more problematic, since it is highly specialized. But it is quite solvable.
6. ... okay, I think I'll stop. It's yours and you have to deal with it. And then I got carried away and started writing business boards for you and making estimates "Where to get what and how much it will cost." x)))

What will all this give? This will give a product of a completely new quality. And this will give an influx of subscribers. And this will give you more opportunities. And you will walk 1 mile out of 1000. xD

You have the right to decide what you want to do, who you want to work with, and how much you'll charge! If you're getting overloaded with work, let people know you need some time and ask them to come back later, you've done so with me! And for all the ideas I have, I'm fine waiting to slowly get them done over time, even at double the current cost.

I'm not a fan of referring people to other animators, especially giving peoples models to other artists for them to offer commissions to people. That feels dirty and hikes my anxiety about other people with my models.

I'm also not a fan of outsourcing your animation work to other people, when I commission someone, I expect them to be the one to work on it unless I'm specifically told otherwise.

You could run slot commissions, so every couple of months you release a certain number of slots. Maybe a YCH style, maybe an auction (That could turn expensive fast!), maybe the Patrons get a vote as to how many slots you'll open. Get input on your balance, from your own art with your own characters, to art with other characters from commissioners.

The "You get one animation and then you're done on your on your own" thing kinda sucks, but I think it's perfectly reasonable. Think of it this way. Maybe you haven't taught them how to fish, but you've at least equipped them with a fishing pole, rather than continuing to give them a fish everyday after the first one. Also no reason you can't pick and chose the ones you like to come back to, rather than taking on the whole work load. It's just kinda the reality of a situation where the demand is higher than the supply, there's no way around it. You shouldn't feel bad for not being able to please everyone, and if people happen get upset at you about it if they happen to be the ones that don't make the cut, then they're being a bit naive about the situation.

Might work if you could guarantee a model and one animation then had a collaboration with another animator who could work with your models. You could send people to them so you aren't swamped and nobody has to feel bad about sitting on a useless expensive model.

Could you alternate between the two? So for a couple months you only take new models, then for another couple months you only take animations with existing models? The couple months bit is just an arbitrary figure, I assume there'd be a sweet spot you could find, and it probably wouldn't be an even split

Why not do commissions for them in seasonal blocks? Like, for three months do model commissions. Then for three months do animation commissions, then bounce back and furtho every three months?

Make the model, maybe accept a single animation, then provide the assets for other animators to do the work. If folks don't want that, then it's problem solved for you~

You could focus on model making, and then occasionally open for "YCH" animation auctions for people who already have models from you?
Maybe have an animator that works with the programs you do, so you can send people their way if they want animations more often.

Train someone to do the bulk of commissioned animation work? But that raises quality etc things. It probably would work for you to transition into being a studio.

I'm not sure I want to be a studio, I like making stuff myself, that's half the fun! :P But also I think you vastly overestimate how much money I make, haha. I can't afford to pay anybody else!

I honestly figure your only slightly less broke than me. :P. Could limit to x number of things per.

I honestly think your best solution is to raise your prices in line with demand. It's incredible that you've achieved this level of success - and muchly deserved - but if it's resulting in more work than you can handle, the best non-artificial way of lowering demand placed upon ye might be to quintuple your prices.

As a rigger its been fascinating watching very few of the comments even pay mind to the rigging aspect of this. Its only managing talk regards to the model itself and then animation.

I admire the desire to keep maintenance on the rigs that you are developing but as an individual it can be rough to upkeep them all equally, or at all. I could almost suggest a subscription like service for model/rig maintenance on top of whatever you are charging for creating the geo, rig and the animation, or some extra premium price for rigs to be flagged as maintained for a period of time. That way people who want to have their stuff maintained with your latest skillset can opt into it, while those who just want the initial stuff don't have to worry about it.

Whatever you are charging for these commissions at this point with the work ethic you are showing here is probably way too low and especially for the quality of the work that is being produced, but we are in the 'furry discount' land of things most likely. Unfortunately you are at a point that you probably *should* start price pointing people out in order to naturally drive down the amount of people who can effectively request it, this will suck in a "I want to make things for everyone" standpoint but will leave you with a more likely manageable workload.

I wish you the best mate. Do take care of yourself. Someday I'd live to get an animation of Keathatah, but I don't want to pressure you if this is the weight you have on your shoulders. If you ever want help with voicing the characters, I'm willing to help out.
Best wishes

Ah dang, was wanting to get something from you, but that's definitely a difficult problem to deal with. If you have to do everything, from the modeling to the texturing, and then rigging and animating, I can definitely see why you are hesitant to take on more character commissions, especially if you like to update them too. Having done 3D work myself in the past, I can't even imagine the amount of time and effort required to do all that at your level of quality. The only thing I can really suggest is to just do what is best for you. At the end of the day, what you are providing to people is a luxury, and it shouldn't come at the cost of overworking and stressing yourself out trying to please everyone.

I might still be able to get you something someday, it might just have to come with a "I can't promise anything after that" stipulation, unfortunately. :P

This'll altogether be a problem I'll be facing sooner or later.
But luckily enough my first 3D commission will be a VR Chat Avatar, so I won't have to worry about making a whole animation just yet.

isn't this more of an issue with feeling responsible than you actually are?
if i read it right x3
because it seems to me that you feel responsible to keep doing commissions with the made models that other commissioned for you.

I mean, i would love to get a model commission from you, since they look really awesome and good.
but i see it more like a single art/ character creation.

And if you opened up for an animition slot later, then i would apply for it.

sooo, a bit like Hiro said quote "be down with just commissioning a model from you by itself, and then just have fun making renders with it in Blender from there in my own time."

So i would say, just open up for model commissions and maybe make somewere clear that ppl can apply for an animation slot when you specifically open for them, and not when you're open for regular commisions with the explenation that animation would cost a lot more time than just regular art etc. and that you like to make it more manageble for yourself.

soo uh, in short, announce that if your not opening for animation commissions specifically, then you would not accept them.

Man, I've wanted a model from my OC for freaking ever.
But then I realize how little I know about animation, nor have any other models to do things with, and then I realize I'd much rather have talented people like yourself work on stuff that you enjoy working on. You'll end up making amazing stuff that I definitely enjoy. In fact, you're genuinely my top favourite furry animator.
I do think it'd be a good idea to try and find a knowledgeable someone you can do awesome stuff together with, not enough collaborators in the 3D world.

While I have a vested interest in getting at least one more animation from you, maybe you open for 2-4 big animation commissions per year where you take in commission requests and execute only one, and you open for shorter loops (sub 30 sec) every 2-3 months for people who commissioned your models, that way people have a chance to get the model you made them animated?

And of course, you do provide your models to us when we ask, so we can go to others to negotiate animations from them as well! I think perhaps, there isn't a huge supply of animators just yet, but that may change in the future as more people try blender? I've been toying with the idea of exploring blender myself!

Would you be comfortable with others using your characters in their animations? Requesting your own character models?

I feel like this is sort of the natural 'late-stage' inevitability that also kind of comes just by nature with how 3D stuff functions as opposed to 2D, whatwith compatibility limitations, the sometimes pseudo-back-to-square-one-somewhere thing that comes with updating a model or rig, solvers, render systems, etc. Not to mention sometimes not being able to guarantee certain functions that play a role in building a model or rig a certain way can be guaranteed to work the same way in the same program just in a later version.

As far as I can say the realistic answer mostly comes down to a combination of mostly anchored by simply recognizing that time is finite and you may need to prioritize arranging projects more by what gets your needs cleared before adding on acceptance/availability of smaller types of things on a per-period basis that you're just going to have to sort out on the fly.

My main question that I think takes first answering would be: Do you already plan your schedules and project outlook multiple months/quarters, etc in advance, or are you figuring things out month by month? 'cuz approaching things the latter way is usually the root of most problems once you're far enough into the career, so to speak, especially it is your business.

I *do* think that as much as it can kind of stink especially where the desire to build more work with a previous project to go such a way, there probably should be an implicit "you will likely need to learn to solve your own animation matters once the model is initially built; there can't be a guarantee of regular service, but it's not permanently off the table in occasional cases"

If it were me getting a model, I'd be happy with one simple animation, and I'd happily pay extra to have a version of the model that would be compatible with VRChat, or as a VTuber, so I can still get use out of it even if I can't animate it myself. Personally I would happily pay extra if it meant having more ways to use the model, but whether or not you go that route depends entirely on how much extra work that would be for you, and how much more that would cost.

If you make people models, any reason they cant use them with other animators? No proprietary formats / etc right?

You could also offer the model and animation comms during separate distinct windows? Ie: swapping the workflow every quarter.

Yeah, I give the files to the commissioner specifically so they can do whatever they want with them, but I liked to be able to also make animations for these folks on occasion, it feels kinda cummy to just say "A'ight here's your model take it and go", hah. Still, that might be the only option, realistically.

LOL THAT TYPO THO

Usually when I've come across model commission from other artists, there's no obligation that they make animations. I can understand the pressure, as your animations are high quality and the effort you put into them shows. But for the sake of your health and sanity, you're well within your rights to say no thanks to the extra work. When I got a 3D model of Fern (the last character you painted for me), that's all I got from the artist, and I'm quite happy for the time being ^^

It's not really any different from your watercolors, when you look at it. Not as far as you're concerned, anyway. Like, I'd love to have other commissions from you, with different situations, but your commissions are in demand and I need to compete with everyone else who wants one. That's just how it works. I imagine you'd probably like to do more art for more people, but you've only got so much time to spend on it, so you have to try to allocate that time in a way that makes you happy. 'Cause you can't make everyone happy.

Same thing with the models. If you have the time to do 3 animations a month, just as an example... then you can offer 3 slots that month. People will just have to compete for them.

I guess you could do a package deal, like offer a guaranteed animation slot within a year of the model commission or something, but that means bookkeeping.

If the demand is super-high, you could also institute an "every other offering" rule, so anyone who got a commission slot one time would be excluded from the next. It's a little less bookkeeping as long as you keep the old journal around for a bit, and at least gives more people a chance to rotate through. But it works best if you're offering commissions in bigger batches. One or two slots at a time, it wouldn't make much difference for, but six, it would have a little more impact.

Or you could partner with other animators, I guess. Point your model commissioners their way for other animations.

Finally, you could just limit animation offerings. Make it clear at the outset that you're not offering additional ones, or only one additional per customer, or one per year, or whatever. Something where you feel you can handle the workload, and subject to change if you find you can't.

I’d like to think that if I ever had someone make a model for me, I’d take that and at least try to learn to animate.

I still haven’t even gotten to the point of making my own. I just have no time to make or have the time to learn to. I haven’t even fired up Blender in months.

When I did start to learn to model I did put a “skeleton” in what I did make and experimented with posting. Of course, that was back in late 2016.

Why not charge per animation but give a slight discount for premade models?

I know I have others who animate in blender etc so for me a model works on its own. Ofc getting animations would be fun and I'd bite if opportunities arise but yeah you can only do so much with the time in a day and I think most understand this. Blender is popular enough though models wouldn't have to be just one and done. But certainly there is no perfect answer to that but the fact it's just reality you can only do so much as one person even if it's amazing stuff

Do what you enjoy most while also raising your prices to keep up with demand.

Its a hard thing to figure and balance honestly. Perhaps having separate commission sets? Doing models and later picking animations?

What about possibly having animations take on a sort of raffle/auction style system? Obviously you could have your initial "Here's your model and one animation if you want it" thing but from there, people with existing models have the opportunity to, in the future when you get the itch to do animation work or whatever, you could hold a raffle or auction. Anybody with a preexisting model can throw their hat into the ring and have the possibility of seeing their model you made for them in another piece of work, but it's at a pace that you decide so you're only ever doing the amount of animations you want, just with a wider array of possible characters to show up in.

Maybe with a caveat of, depending on the amount of people in the drawing, you could pick about 5 or so and have them all simultaneously send you their idea for the animation and pick whichever one tickles your fancy? Assuming it's not a YCH type thing where you've already got the scenario picking at your brain and you just need a person to fit the role?

Maybe there's a glaring problem here I'm not seeing but this seeeeeems to be the fairest, least sucky way to do things? You don't have to really tell anybody no, just give them the knowledge that while they have a chance to show up later you have to give that same chance to other people so beyond the first one, it'll just be luck of the draw.

How about instead of ongoing commissions, it's like.. "your character is added to the toybox" and it's almost like a raffle anyone could show up in an animation at any time that you make for any other reason, commissioner willing, they could just be "part of the cast" and part of the value of the commission could be just showing up in other animations Stunt-cock style? (or stunt anything else.)?

it's not a real win win, there's still small kinks i'm sure, but it would kinda keep a balance?

Yanno. . . .

I would be absolutely thrilled just to get a model done that is animation ready. I would consider everything beyond that to be optional and a justifiable extra expense due to the sheer amount of work and time it takes to animate alone.

In the end, there are only so many hours in a day and you are only one person.

I can say for sure I desire to do more cheetah animations in the future.

That said, you should listen to your own feelings on the matter and do what is the most fair for yourself. If that means letting some people down, then that it just how it needs to be, as pushing yourself to breaking will lead to letting everyone down, yourself included.

I am patient as your work is so very, very worth the wait. However, if the animations had so far shall be all I'll ever have from you, that would be just fine, so long as it meant you are in a happy place. You deserve that.

Self-care is vital!

<3

It's a business problem: People are purchasing more than supply permits. You can't raise your rate of production short of setting up an animation studio, so you need to raise prices to reflect the limited supply.

I also understand not liking it but I think one-off model/animation combo comms are extremely valid for you to do, especially considering how much you grow and develop your modelling skills while doing them. It makes sense that people would want to come back for more animations of the same model, but it also makes sense why you'd want to move on and work on a new different one instead to improve your all-around skillset (and to not get caught in an infinite animation making trap). While the models are designed technically capable of being animated in all sorts of ways forever, you shouldn't feel pressure to develop them beyond the scope of their commission. You can basically define that as part of the deal when comming you. Unless you specifically want to play more with a certain model you've made, I think it's fine to make it a general policy that you won't revisit previously completed models for new animations in favor of doing new model commissions (barring exceptions at your discretion).

I think of these comms as being similar to an animation team making a movie for a studio. I would personally want to see them mostly making something new that they want to make after completing their projects rather than just recycling their previous assets in new situations forever. And I would definitely rather they make more content with a limited scope rather than not animate for the studio altogether xP

Alternatively you could decide what your customer pool size will be. Sort of like doctors: they can manage a certain amount of patients. Sometimes the patients don’t come as much (they’re in good health) and then can handle a few more. But they don’t go looking for more than they can handle.

How to find that number? No idea. :/ Slowly ramp it up maybe?

Why not do X amount a year, and cycle through the people you get? And do it that way? Go about it that way? This way, you're still doing models for people, but you aren't overstressing yourself either.

Maybe you can offer them the models to download, give people the chance to animate them themselves? Or perhaps still renders of their characters in different poses?

I also gladly would commission you for models and animations independent of each other ^^

woah mama! that's feedback alright.

Late to the party since it looks like you already got plenty feedback, but I feel the most viable way of doing model commissions is to hand them over as-is. There's lots of people (myself included) who are proficient enough at making the models we get do the things we want them to do, for example animations. Creating models from scratch and rigging them is a whole different beast in my opinion, which, even if many people could technically do, is a process that requires different skills and usually a whole lot of time (especially if you don't already have a "stock" to work with). So there is definitely a demand for pre-made and pre-rigged Blender models that are made to custom designs/rigging specifications. There is obviously also a demand for custom VRChat models or animations or whathaveyou, but those are completely different "markets" if you ask me. Trying to cover everything at once is not a realistic goal for one person imo. Same with trying to provide forever updates and support for the models you finished and delivered. Could you imagine a 2D artist constantly updating and redrawing and adding onto a piece you commissioned from them years ago because their skill improves over time or because you think of additional stuff to add to the picture afterwards? If that sounds ridiculous to expect of a 2D artist to you, don't let people guilt you into doing it as a 3D artist. Cheers, and keep up the great work!

Yeah, that's pretty much the conclusion I came to. It kinda sucks, but I think "Here's your model, good luck" is the best way to do things if I'm going to continue making models for other people, otherwise the work basically becomes infinite which is a bit much, hah.

I mean you could do there Model and one animation, but make sure there recieve the files for there model afterwards, so that, if they want more animations, they could go to other artists, give them the model you made, and they can work witht that.

You have become too good for your own good.