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Question for the "OLD GUARD" & "GREY-MUZZLES" about FURRY...
a month ago
So, for "Grey-Muzzle" I'm going with the people that are 30-35 and above, even though I usually consider someone a grey-muzzle in the 90s and early 2000s sense, which was usually about 40-45 and up.
So, the question(s) for you is:
Has the furry fandom, in general, gotten better or worse over the years? Got any stories to share?
Are you connecting with more people in the fandom, or are you finding it harder and harder?
Do you feel like you can talk about pretty much anything with randoms in the fandom, such as just "hanging out", or do you feel you have to be a lot more "guarded"?
Have you noticed, in general, if people have been more or less social? And I mean holding conversations and chatting or posting journals and comments, not just the occasional "hi" or "buy my YCH" or favoriting and such?
Do you think there is a lack of new "anthro cartoon fans" in the fandom, and more "I'm doing it because it seems strange (in a good way)" types?
Personally, I think it has become worse as it has become bigger and more spread out.
Hear me out...
I've been in it since the late 1990s, and it was very "live and let live" and "agree to disagree" and had very diverse people in it, race, religions, creeds, politics, and so on... sure, it's always had cliques and drama, but that drama was usually some local garbage in real life.
Furry was very "libertarian" and even "punk".
Then, around the advent of social media like 2005 or so, it exploded in popularity, but then with the advent of Patreon and the likes, got more and more cordoned off and "exclusive" with a lot of little pay-2-play furry "clubs", then it got more "political"... not as in like "left vs right" but more "with-us-or-against-us" type mindset instead of "agree to disagree", people started embracing "cancel culture" and "censorship" ((Left AND Right)), and now "furry" seems to be treated more like a business in many places.
What I mean is, things like personal journals and blogs and the likes with people sharing thoughts and opinions and such started vanishing and getting replaced by "BUY MY YCH!" and "I'M TAKING COMMISSIONS!" and "PAY ME A MONTHLY FEE FOR ART YOU HAVE NO CHOICE OF" or the "furry scammers" that promise to deliver something like a game or animation if you subscribe to them only to milk their fans for every dollar possible and deliver constant excuses as to why they can't.
It's like the personality of furry got replaced with people trying to make money from furry because of the internet stereotype that furries are "SUSPICIOUSLY RICH" or "All working in tech". *chuckles*
I see people have gotten more "quiet" about any sort of opinions, and a lot of art has become more tame/homogeneous for the "fear" of "possibly offending" someone, even if that thing is harmless...
Hell, maybe that could even come from the lack of good ANTHRO-CARTOONS for people to grow up with these days?
And then the usual whatever-flavor-of-the-week "furry drama" happening that makes people "virtue signal about leaving" or their apparent "want" to be on the "ground floor" of whatever "new" social media or furry site pops up, thinking "there won't be furry drama at NEW PLACE, right?" before that new thing ultimately fails or becomes overly dramatic, then fractures the fandom more and more as people burn bridges or change personas or never come back.
The fandom is also getting A LOT "younger", like it was "almost" unheard of to see anyone under 16 in person at furry meetups the 90s and early 2000s, now you've got people bringing their single-digit-aged kids to conventions with people in full-on fetish gear and kink shit at the same time, and it just got uncomfortable for me when a lot of conventions went for the "all ages" approach to try and make "the most money", when a rather big portion of people going there are doing it for sex, drugs, and booze ((and don't pretend like it isn't, this has been one of the only constants of the furry fandom ^_^)).
I LOVE the adult side of the fandom, I just don't think kids should be around that, and that cons need to strictly be family-friendly or adult-only (and I don't mean fucking on the dance floor, I just mean only people 18-21+ depending on if there is a bar or not).
I think the worst thing for furry, in general, has been furs jumping onto mainstream "normie" social media to "chase the likes and followers" ((which are often bots)), it's been so toxic for the fandom when those social media sites are just not set up to be "art friendly" let alone "furry friendly" and made more for emotional manipulation and giving people that psychologically addictive "slot machine" feeling of "scrolling for gold".
So, what I am saying is: over the years, between cancel culture ((From the LEFT and RIGHT)), censorship ((be it from within the fandom or outside forces like social media or stupid laws)), monetizing the fandom, pushing it into "normie" spaces, and people constantly fracturing off and leaving the bigger furry spaces, it has definitely become a lot less diverse, less open, and less accepting and is starting to get what I'm calling "human-washed" as the censorship often comes after things like adult art, digitigrade characters, sheaths, quads, toony characters, so on and so forth.
I still love the fandom, but to me, it has felt less social and less "free" as more time goes on.
Also, as a funny side note.... With "The Bad Guys 2" and "Zootopia 2" coming out this year, we are about to see a massive influx of new-furs. *chuckles*
So, the question(s) for you is:
Has the furry fandom, in general, gotten better or worse over the years? Got any stories to share?
Are you connecting with more people in the fandom, or are you finding it harder and harder?
Do you feel like you can talk about pretty much anything with randoms in the fandom, such as just "hanging out", or do you feel you have to be a lot more "guarded"?
Have you noticed, in general, if people have been more or less social? And I mean holding conversations and chatting or posting journals and comments, not just the occasional "hi" or "buy my YCH" or favoriting and such?
Do you think there is a lack of new "anthro cartoon fans" in the fandom, and more "I'm doing it because it seems strange (in a good way)" types?
Personally, I think it has become worse as it has become bigger and more spread out.
Hear me out...
I've been in it since the late 1990s, and it was very "live and let live" and "agree to disagree" and had very diverse people in it, race, religions, creeds, politics, and so on... sure, it's always had cliques and drama, but that drama was usually some local garbage in real life.
Furry was very "libertarian" and even "punk".
Then, around the advent of social media like 2005 or so, it exploded in popularity, but then with the advent of Patreon and the likes, got more and more cordoned off and "exclusive" with a lot of little pay-2-play furry "clubs", then it got more "political"... not as in like "left vs right" but more "with-us-or-against-us" type mindset instead of "agree to disagree", people started embracing "cancel culture" and "censorship" ((Left AND Right)), and now "furry" seems to be treated more like a business in many places.
What I mean is, things like personal journals and blogs and the likes with people sharing thoughts and opinions and such started vanishing and getting replaced by "BUY MY YCH!" and "I'M TAKING COMMISSIONS!" and "PAY ME A MONTHLY FEE FOR ART YOU HAVE NO CHOICE OF" or the "furry scammers" that promise to deliver something like a game or animation if you subscribe to them only to milk their fans for every dollar possible and deliver constant excuses as to why they can't.
It's like the personality of furry got replaced with people trying to make money from furry because of the internet stereotype that furries are "SUSPICIOUSLY RICH" or "All working in tech". *chuckles*
I see people have gotten more "quiet" about any sort of opinions, and a lot of art has become more tame/homogeneous for the "fear" of "possibly offending" someone, even if that thing is harmless...
Hell, maybe that could even come from the lack of good ANTHRO-CARTOONS for people to grow up with these days?
And then the usual whatever-flavor-of-the-week "furry drama" happening that makes people "virtue signal about leaving" or their apparent "want" to be on the "ground floor" of whatever "new" social media or furry site pops up, thinking "there won't be furry drama at NEW PLACE, right?" before that new thing ultimately fails or becomes overly dramatic, then fractures the fandom more and more as people burn bridges or change personas or never come back.
The fandom is also getting A LOT "younger", like it was "almost" unheard of to see anyone under 16 in person at furry meetups the 90s and early 2000s, now you've got people bringing their single-digit-aged kids to conventions with people in full-on fetish gear and kink shit at the same time, and it just got uncomfortable for me when a lot of conventions went for the "all ages" approach to try and make "the most money", when a rather big portion of people going there are doing it for sex, drugs, and booze ((and don't pretend like it isn't, this has been one of the only constants of the furry fandom ^_^)).
I LOVE the adult side of the fandom, I just don't think kids should be around that, and that cons need to strictly be family-friendly or adult-only (and I don't mean fucking on the dance floor, I just mean only people 18-21+ depending on if there is a bar or not).
I think the worst thing for furry, in general, has been furs jumping onto mainstream "normie" social media to "chase the likes and followers" ((which are often bots)), it's been so toxic for the fandom when those social media sites are just not set up to be "art friendly" let alone "furry friendly" and made more for emotional manipulation and giving people that psychologically addictive "slot machine" feeling of "scrolling for gold".
So, what I am saying is: over the years, between cancel culture ((From the LEFT and RIGHT)), censorship ((be it from within the fandom or outside forces like social media or stupid laws)), monetizing the fandom, pushing it into "normie" spaces, and people constantly fracturing off and leaving the bigger furry spaces, it has definitely become a lot less diverse, less open, and less accepting and is starting to get what I'm calling "human-washed" as the censorship often comes after things like adult art, digitigrade characters, sheaths, quads, toony characters, so on and so forth.
I still love the fandom, but to me, it has felt less social and less "free" as more time goes on.
Also, as a funny side note.... With "The Bad Guys 2" and "Zootopia 2" coming out this year, we are about to see a massive influx of new-furs. *chuckles*
Some things haven't changed such as the etiquette of critiques. Only give them if asked.
Just wait'll you hit your sixties!
O.k., since you're asking...
1) "Has the furry fandom, in general, gotten better or worse over the years? Got any stories to share?"
As word spread, I saw things evolve from the 'Furrymuck' (Of which I have/had zero experience with, I simply know it existed.) to sites like this one. Artists, Musicians, Writers and everything else found a place and then things just took off! The Events and Parades/Videos that happened helped to spread the word (Usually for the better, but not always!), and 'Furry' became a living breathing entity.
So, things certainly got 'Better' regarding awareness and evolution/creation. Some things got 'Worse' because there are always SOME PEOPLE who take their personal kinks/fetishes too far, and for whatever reason, decide to make a public display out of it. tsk, tsk, tsk...
2) "Are you connecting with more people in the fandom, or are you finding it harder and harder?"
My contacts are Olde Style 'Pen pals' (ie, emails/Notes). I've only personally met IRL a scant few 'Furries,' but have no regrets thus far. I don't seek to make personal contact with others, but am not against it happening.
3) "Do you feel like you can talk about pretty much anything with randoms in the fandom, such as just "hanging out", or do you feel you have to be a lot more "guarded"?"
'With randoms?' :: Head tilts :: I'm not sure what you mean by that? As far as talking about 'Anything', here (Or on any other Furry site?). No. It is NOT a 'Free Speech' fandom, by any means. I've seen far too many people suffer various 'Witch Hunts' and lies/slander/maligning campaigns, and abandon the fandom entirely (By all accounts.). This is so shameful and egregious I just can't believe it (Or have any tolerance for it). For a genre that by all definitions IS 'Deviant,' seeing folks who have harmed nothing and no one persecuted simply because 'Others/The MOB' didn't share their particular quirks, was a huge Red Flag I've never gotten over. I only remain because of the 'Good things' that still exist, but am forever wary knowing the gigantic potholes that will catch the unwary...
4) "Have you noticed, in general, if people have been more or less social? And I mean holding conversations and chatting or posting journals and comments, not just the occasional "hi" or "buy my YCH" or favoriting and such?"
See above (#3) comments and perspectives. :-/
5) "Do you think there is a lack of new "anthro cartoon fans" in the fandom, and more "I'm doing it because it seems strange (in a good way)" types?"
I don't believe there is a 'Lack.' I'm seeing SO MANY CREATORS, using this amazing technology (Internet and digital art), to flex their imaginations! From Classic Cartoons to 'Anime,' Books and Writing, and of course, Musicians, it's practically a tidal wave, and I LOVE IT! (Can't keep UP WITH IT, but love what I can!).
I share most of what you've shared. I love/adore the simple, 'Clean' side of the Furry Fandom, but as an adult, I also have an appreciation for the Adult/Mature aspects, and I'm not talking JUST about the 'Sex' stuffs. REAL stories with characters that can be related to, the struggles so many of us can empathize with, have a gigantic appeal to me, because that is how I write. The sex stuff is fine, and has it's place, but for myself that is hardly the only or greatest appeal.
Politics? meh. People have their views, and yes, it has become hugely weaponized. I know, personally, a fur who was here WAY BACK, and was permanently shafted/banned over the stupidest topic you could think of (I won't elaborate, because what's the point. The Mod(s) and then Owner made their choice, so that's that.), and it wasn't even 'Furry' related, nor was it about anything illegal. Merely a difference of opinion, and *WHAM,* the 'Ban Hammer' was dropped. Ridiculous, yet that is the world/platform(s) we live in. Can't escape politics when people congregate. That's just a fact of life.
Capitalism always has its good and bad side. Again, just a fact of life. If people can make a living by monetizing their Creation(s), then by all means, have at it! If they LIMIT other people's ability to see/appreciate/follow and support it, I consider that shooting themselves in the foot. If folks can't see/hear/read what you're making, other than the FEW who can/do pay-to-enjoy it, I think that's gutting a huge majority of people who COULD then choose to help fund/support them and their work. It's a personal choice, no doubt.
Kids... Man,,, don't even get me started on THIS one! YES, kids should (And did/do, regardless), have their place here! My gods, imagine NEVER SEEING A CARTOON way back in the 60's/70's, or being aware of the Anthro concept? That's terrible, imho.
Now, keeping the 'Adult/Mature' stuff AWAY from kids? YES! A thousand times, YES!!! Any Event should respect this, and those who don't are begging for the societal whiplash they've gotten, and will continue to get. Why ask for that kind of negative publicity for Pete's sake? :-/
It's an evolving thing.
Where it ends-up is still in question.
'Furry' will never die, by any account. It's been a part of the human condition for as long as recorded history.
How WE treat it, and then how the rest of the world will? That's the real issue.
VERY nice Journal/Topic!
Thank you!
though that was mostly because the internet back then was a lot better overall
interwebnets were very over represented with people who were fans of classic sci-fi and had therefore adopted their political views from the likes of Heinlein, even if they didn't understand any of its basic reasoning
Yeah, it's quaint remembering how 'Yiff' drove so many utterly insane, isn't it?!
I think when the 'Net was new, MOSTLY intelligent/educated people were here, and what they did/said indicated their level of maturity. As the 'Net/PC's became more user friendly, I think brains was replaced with hormones (Mostly balls, but I know of more than a FEW females who also fit this sentiment!), and the insanity that resulted would seem to give credit to that, too.
Alas, we're all people, and people are by-and-large: a mess.
Social media I feel made people far less social, people are either extremely introverted, or insufferable narcissists, and people don't seem eager to comment on art anymore, unless it's a popular artist, or "FA veteran" like anti-dev. Anyone else? People are mostly putting it in their favorites and moving on. I'm guilty of it myself, but I do try and leave comments, but sometimes the artist doesn't respond back, and it can feel like "speaking into the void", like what's the point in commenting?
Since creating my new account, I've tried to do a monthly Ask me Anything journal, and the ones I did for May and July flopped. It discourages me from wanting to continue it. Journals are now just means to announce commissions, or when you're streaming. Hell, people post a pic to announce they're streaming. Oh, vent journals also still exist. The furry community is big, but why does it feel like it's a ghost town?
I appreciate the favorites, but I want people to comment on my content, and people for the most part won't.
Don't even get me started on the furry drama, I remember the scar Kero The Wolf and the Zoo-sadist leaks did to our fandom, the very generalizing video Kothorix made that presented furries as if they were nothing but a bunch of immature, overly sensitive SJWs, that are unable to have a conversation that doesn't involve sex, will cheat on their partners and spread diseases, and that we're all pedophiles and animal rapists. It's like that infamous CSI episode that portrayed furries in a very negative light.
"Furry drama" is always something I see as a reason a furry says they're leaving the fandom, or gating their art off on Telegram, or Discord, which is a pain in the ass because I don't want to join 2,000 servers just to look at art.
When it comes to the monetization of this fandom, this is also a problem with hobbies in general where people feel like if it's something not productive, or making them money, it's a waste of time. I see artists compare themselves to others, complain about their numbers, how they feel like they're not growing enough, but instead of trying to focus on themselves and do art because they enjoy it, they mope and cry and see themselves as "not good enough".
One thing about social media I hate is artists feel the desire to abandon places like here for Twitter (not anymore), and Blue Sky because uploading to an art gallery feels like a chore, and that a social media app is more convenient and a lot of artists see their art blow up on them, despite how terrible of a place those sites are for artists and furries. But I can't blame them too much when most dedicated furry art sites are half-dead (looking at Weasyl), or have embraced the AI "art" train like DeviantArt. Hell, InkBunny now allows AI "art".
I'm sure the rise of AI slop is something else that's negatively impacting our fandom. I see journals from discouraged furs that feel like they should quit art because AI can generate an image in seconds that looks far better than anything they could draw. And it's such bullshit, I've seen AI "art", and while some of it can look good, or look like it can pass for "real art", a lot of it you can very easily see the flaws present, it also lacks any sort of soul to it,
Would it have been around 2015 or thereabouts the social media thing took off? That's when things really started going downhill.
I couldn't quite understand why, I thought it was just me and massive social anxiety problems, but the community started to become hostile, and all the ego and nasty traits in people really started to take over.
This was one of the only things I got along with where I met people, online and in RL, but I had to gradually become totally cut off and recluse, which affected me mentally, a lot. Then of course, things went crazy since 2020.
I feel like there are people in the same generation who are still like-minded. I see people here who seem great and good people to interact with, and there are still things in the fandom I enjoy personally, otherwise I wouldn't be here.
It's a good thing FA is still here and is improving, one of the only independent sites still left, which hasn't turned into a social media clone. It's important we keep this and that some of us who have no other space and nowhere where we dare speak do have somewhere we can connect with, even if it's just lurking.