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I Dislike Trolls ALMOST As Much As I Dislike Grues.
15 years ago
Anti-Drama Llama Movement NewsletterEaster Sunday...
Not everyone celebrates it, and whether you do or don't, that's okay by me. Regardless, I think of holidays as a good time to just get together with friends and family. I also see them as a good time to eat REALLY good food. However you spent today, whether you celebrated or not, I hope you all just had an overall good day anyway.
I wanted to say that before I got into the meat and potatoes of this journal which can be rather...
...touchy for some people.
As you may know, there have been trolls who've stopped by the ADLM to give me or those who participate a hard time. They've been hanging around since the beginning of the ADLM over a year ago, and frankly I don't really care what they say since I know they just want a reaction (any reaction at all).
In fact, I know that there are some community sites trolls particularly like, such as:
http://community.livejournal.com/furrydrama_2/
and
http://lulz.net/
just to name a few. I also know that they often tend to link right to the journals here on the ADLM! In that case, if you came over here from one of those sites, a big HELLO to you all! Hope you had a good day today as well.
(Also, for anyone contemplating clicking on the links, especially Lulz there, I advise that you have the latest anti-virus, anti-spyware, and anti-malware installed on your computer. Who knows what might try and slip through those ads.)
So overall, trolls generally don't bother me. They can say I'm wasting my time, or they can say I'm just masquerading and am going to pull a 180 ANY DAY now to tell all the ADLM followers, "HA! GOTCHA!"
(I'm sure they'd love to see that. It's never going to happen, but I'm sure they'd be just ecstatic if it did.)
And frankly, they can say whatever they want, and I'm not going to change, or change the objectives of the ADLM. I'm still here, the ADLM is still here, and we're still about helping as many people as possible to deal with drama, avoid drama, or get the help they need.
But then I saw this:
http://tv.gawker.com/5506453/trolli.....f-the-internet
Trolling the dead and their families!
Let me repeat that:
HOW, I ask you, HOW can people be so cruel, so cold-hearted, and so blatantly wicked as to make fun of the DEAD AND THEIR FAMILIES?! What kind of sick, twisted person would go and DO such a thing!? What do they get out of it?! WHAT?! If they want a reaction, they aren't going to get one, because the person is DEAD!
It's like beating a dead horse with a stick! In fact, it's almost exactly like that metaphor!
I've heard people defend trolling as a means of maintaining a balance, that its for those who take the internet "Too seriously" and that it gives them a much needed reality check. Okay, but one problem:
THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!
The internet has changed and evolved ever since it went public in 1995, and ever since then, the technology just keeps on advancing. Credit card numbers, business deals, and then some occur on the internet every day. MILLIONS, if not BILLIONS, of dollars, yen, pesos, euros, pounds, rubles, drachmas, etc. change hands EVERY SINGLE DAY! You'd be hard pressed to say THAT is not serious business!
And nothing is more serious than DEATH! It's one of the saddest, awful, horrible, depressing, and painful aspect about Life! People on FA have died, as each month I've been hearing reports of members who have passed away. Our
adlm_daily_spotlight occasionally does dedications with our daily updates to give recognition to those that have died.
It's sad, it's unfortunate, and death is something that scares me to the core.
But to think that there are trolls that would DO this; this horrible, cruel, INHUMAN sort of thing makes my stomach turn! It shows a lack of respect, human decency, and compassion. It makes humans appear to be nothing more than vile, disgusting, twisted creatures; parasites that would feed off other people's misery for their own enjoyment!
I actually don't think so.
If we were all that low, then there wouldn't be anyone supporting this movement. Even after the dust up of the last two journals that were posted, the membership of the ADLM went UP! As of this writing, the ADLM has 811 watchers! In 1 year, 811! That's amazing! And people wouldn't be watching this if they didn't care what was going on here; wanted to make a difference; or learn something.
So there's hope.
It's my hope that as time goes on, these trolls will grow up and out of it. It's my belief that some trolls are just immature kids that get their immature kicks from other people's misfortune. Eventually, I hope they grow up and out of it.
Others I believe are older people who have real life issues that instead of dealing with, they just spread their own misery to others online. If the saying "Misery Loves Company" is true, then trolls are just people running away from the problems and issues that make them miserable and are instead just making other people miserable as a means of trying to cope with their own misfortune.
Also, bear in mind that people I consider trolls are not people who read about drama and then comment about it. I mean people who actually seek out the person who is in the midst of drama, misfortune, etc., and then taunting, mocking, and harassing them directly. Not behind their back on some community site or board.
So what can people do about this?
As people have said to me, trolls are just a part of the internet. There are just as many, if not more, trolls outside of FA, and the furry fandom, as there are inside of it. But just because they exist doesn't mean I have to like them, tolerate them, or accept them. And I will NEVER change my stance on that, especially after seeing trolls go so low as to troll the DEAD!
Cyber-Bullying and Cyber-Harassment are FELONIES!!! If you're in the U.S. and you do something like trolling the dead as I mentioned before, you're doing something ILLEGAL!!! It doesn't matter if you think you're anonymous because of proxies or whatever, that doesn't stop people from tracking you down and charging you!
Don't believe me? See for yourself via these websites! I encourage people to read through these websites and learn a few things. There IS a line that can be crossed by trolls, and if that line is crossed, then it goes beyond "just trolling", it becomes a CRIME!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying
http://stopcyberbullying.org/
http://www.cyberbullying.us/
http://cyberbullying.org/
These are just a few pages with information, as a quick search turned up far too many to list here.
Some people on FA are parents, and what will you do when you find out your kids are trolling or cyber-bullying? What will you do if your kids are victims of cyber-bullies and trolls?
I'm seeing a few Cyber-Bullies on FA, and I even mentioned a few by FA name two journals ago. I WILL NOT LIE DOWN WHILE PEOPLE VERBALLY ABUSE OTHERS ON FA! I don't care what people may have done, and I don't care whether you think some people deserve this sort of treatment or not.
NOBODY DESERVES THIS SORT OF TREATMENT!!!
If you feel someone committed a crime, don't respond with another crime!
From this day forward, I am declaring that the ADLM will not support, tolerate, or accept anymore cyber-bullying on FA or anywhere else. And if you disagree with that, feel free to voice your opinion. It'll be an uphill battle, though.
This has been something that's been on my mind for a while now, and I'm glad I finally got it all out. Oh, and in case you're wondering:
"The grue is a sinister, lurking presence in the dark places of the earth. Its favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale."
So there you have it! Now let's go out there and do some good!
~Otaku-*lights go out*
"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
...Man
Not everyone celebrates it, and whether you do or don't, that's okay by me. Regardless, I think of holidays as a good time to just get together with friends and family. I also see them as a good time to eat REALLY good food. However you spent today, whether you celebrated or not, I hope you all just had an overall good day anyway.
I wanted to say that before I got into the meat and potatoes of this journal which can be rather...
...touchy for some people.
As you may know, there have been trolls who've stopped by the ADLM to give me or those who participate a hard time. They've been hanging around since the beginning of the ADLM over a year ago, and frankly I don't really care what they say since I know they just want a reaction (any reaction at all).
In fact, I know that there are some community sites trolls particularly like, such as:
http://community.livejournal.com/furrydrama_2/
and
http://lulz.net/
just to name a few. I also know that they often tend to link right to the journals here on the ADLM! In that case, if you came over here from one of those sites, a big HELLO to you all! Hope you had a good day today as well.
(Also, for anyone contemplating clicking on the links, especially Lulz there, I advise that you have the latest anti-virus, anti-spyware, and anti-malware installed on your computer. Who knows what might try and slip through those ads.)
So overall, trolls generally don't bother me. They can say I'm wasting my time, or they can say I'm just masquerading and am going to pull a 180 ANY DAY now to tell all the ADLM followers, "HA! GOTCHA!"
(I'm sure they'd love to see that. It's never going to happen, but I'm sure they'd be just ecstatic if it did.)
And frankly, they can say whatever they want, and I'm not going to change, or change the objectives of the ADLM. I'm still here, the ADLM is still here, and we're still about helping as many people as possible to deal with drama, avoid drama, or get the help they need.
But then I saw this:
http://tv.gawker.com/5506453/trolli.....f-the-internet
Trolling the dead and their families!
Let me repeat that:
TROLLING THE DEAD AND THEIR FAMILIES!!!!HOW, I ask you, HOW can people be so cruel, so cold-hearted, and so blatantly wicked as to make fun of the DEAD AND THEIR FAMILIES?! What kind of sick, twisted person would go and DO such a thing!? What do they get out of it?! WHAT?! If they want a reaction, they aren't going to get one, because the person is DEAD!
It's like beating a dead horse with a stick! In fact, it's almost exactly like that metaphor!
I've heard people defend trolling as a means of maintaining a balance, that its for those who take the internet "Too seriously" and that it gives them a much needed reality check. Okay, but one problem:
THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!
The internet has changed and evolved ever since it went public in 1995, and ever since then, the technology just keeps on advancing. Credit card numbers, business deals, and then some occur on the internet every day. MILLIONS, if not BILLIONS, of dollars, yen, pesos, euros, pounds, rubles, drachmas, etc. change hands EVERY SINGLE DAY! You'd be hard pressed to say THAT is not serious business!
And nothing is more serious than DEATH! It's one of the saddest, awful, horrible, depressing, and painful aspect about Life! People on FA have died, as each month I've been hearing reports of members who have passed away. Our
adlm_daily_spotlight occasionally does dedications with our daily updates to give recognition to those that have died.It's sad, it's unfortunate, and death is something that scares me to the core.
But to think that there are trolls that would DO this; this horrible, cruel, INHUMAN sort of thing makes my stomach turn! It shows a lack of respect, human decency, and compassion. It makes humans appear to be nothing more than vile, disgusting, twisted creatures; parasites that would feed off other people's misery for their own enjoyment!
Are we really that low? Are we really that despicable?I actually don't think so.
If we were all that low, then there wouldn't be anyone supporting this movement. Even after the dust up of the last two journals that were posted, the membership of the ADLM went UP! As of this writing, the ADLM has 811 watchers! In 1 year, 811! That's amazing! And people wouldn't be watching this if they didn't care what was going on here; wanted to make a difference; or learn something.
So there's hope.
It's my hope that as time goes on, these trolls will grow up and out of it. It's my belief that some trolls are just immature kids that get their immature kicks from other people's misfortune. Eventually, I hope they grow up and out of it.
Others I believe are older people who have real life issues that instead of dealing with, they just spread their own misery to others online. If the saying "Misery Loves Company" is true, then trolls are just people running away from the problems and issues that make them miserable and are instead just making other people miserable as a means of trying to cope with their own misfortune.
Also, bear in mind that people I consider trolls are not people who read about drama and then comment about it. I mean people who actually seek out the person who is in the midst of drama, misfortune, etc., and then taunting, mocking, and harassing them directly. Not behind their back on some community site or board.
So what can people do about this?
As people have said to me, trolls are just a part of the internet. There are just as many, if not more, trolls outside of FA, and the furry fandom, as there are inside of it. But just because they exist doesn't mean I have to like them, tolerate them, or accept them. And I will NEVER change my stance on that, especially after seeing trolls go so low as to troll the DEAD!
But there is one thing that everyone, even those who proudly admit to being trolls, can do: knowing the difference between trolling, and cyber-bullying and cyber-harassment. Cyber-Bullying and Cyber-Harassment are FELONIES!!! If you're in the U.S. and you do something like trolling the dead as I mentioned before, you're doing something ILLEGAL!!! It doesn't matter if you think you're anonymous because of proxies or whatever, that doesn't stop people from tracking you down and charging you!
Don't believe me? See for yourself via these websites! I encourage people to read through these websites and learn a few things. There IS a line that can be crossed by trolls, and if that line is crossed, then it goes beyond "just trolling", it becomes a CRIME!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying
http://stopcyberbullying.org/
http://www.cyberbullying.us/
http://cyberbullying.org/
These are just a few pages with information, as a quick search turned up far too many to list here.
Some people on FA are parents, and what will you do when you find out your kids are trolling or cyber-bullying? What will you do if your kids are victims of cyber-bullies and trolls?
I'm seeing a few Cyber-Bullies on FA, and I even mentioned a few by FA name two journals ago. I WILL NOT LIE DOWN WHILE PEOPLE VERBALLY ABUSE OTHERS ON FA! I don't care what people may have done, and I don't care whether you think some people deserve this sort of treatment or not.
NOBODY DESERVES THIS SORT OF TREATMENT!!!
If you feel someone committed a crime, don't respond with another crime!
From this day forward, I am declaring that the ADLM will not support, tolerate, or accept anymore cyber-bullying on FA or anywhere else. And if you disagree with that, feel free to voice your opinion. It'll be an uphill battle, though.
This has been something that's been on my mind for a while now, and I'm glad I finally got it all out. Oh, and in case you're wondering:
"The grue is a sinister, lurking presence in the dark places of the earth. Its favorite diet is adventurers, but its insatiable appetite is tempered by its fear of light. No grue has ever been seen by the light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale."
So there you have it! Now let's go out there and do some good!
~Otaku-*lights go out*
"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
...Man
Thank you for Reading! If you want to subscribe to these journals and keep up to date on what's happening, feel free to subscribe by watching 
Anti-Drama_Llama_Movement You can also keep up to date on who needs help on FA at our other newsletter, the ADLM_Daily_Spotlight 
Anti-Drama_Llama_Movement
Trolls must drop their clubs and walk back to their caves to grieve their own lives away.
Cheers to Anti Drama Llama Movement for bringing this to light
I'm sorry but that is just wrong.... trolls doing a public service like that is like terrorists being paid to kill us... That is not efficient way that is just wrong and they know it!
Trolls cannot change me for I am one that has opinions, they dislike a person who thinks differently. They think I am a person who can be pushed around, well sad for them i know my way around things. I pity you...
Tl;dr - Nature's a bitch.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
http://digg.com/design/greater_inte.....dickwad_theory
http://www.pennyarcademerch.com/pat070381.html - The Shirt
~Otaku-Man
The Greater Internet Dickwad Theory is what created the trolls AND the A-holes that you say trolls are there to take down a peg. So which came first though, the A-holes or the Trolls?
Also, I notice you defend the actions of trolls going after A-holes, but what about the trolls I brought up who are trolling the dead? You haven't really said anything about them in any of your comments.
And finally, you also seem to equate humans with predators and prey. However, isn't what makes us human the fact that we are supposed to be beyond that? You seem to take things such as compassion, kindness, generosity, and love out of the equation there. Isn't that kind of myopic when talking about your own species?
~Otaku-Man
~Otaku-Man
First, I think it's funny that this movement is anti-drama, yet I see drama in many of these posts. HOWEVER, I think it's the good kind of drama; the shit that needs to be said.
Second, I have heard about trolling the dead before. My opinion was spot-on with yours when I discovered it. Ever hear of the "Porsche Girl" incident? I'll elaborate if you want, but it's a really tragic, gruesome story that trolls rubbed in the grieving family's face for years.
But remember Sturgeon's Law [That's a link if you don't know what it is.]
I have NEVER seen journals from ADLM posted at Lulz or FD2.
Like...
man, that just angers me.
THOSE WHO RESORT TO CYBER-BULLYING, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE PROUD TO CALL THEMSELVES TROLLS, ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW ON THE BULLYING TOTEM POLE. THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THE GUTS TO SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEONE'S FACE. THEY ARE PATHETIC. AND FURTHERMORE, THOSE WHO WOULD TROLL THE DEAD ARE HAVE. NO. HEART.
Now that we've got that out, I am behind this 100%. Let's get the idiots who have no heart off the internet and unwelcome even in their former social circles.
Seconded.
Thanks. ;D
So, in a way - the trolls will always win.
But that's the thing, if you simply highlight what they do, without pointing names, the trolls will get no internet popularity, and their point will be moot.
See what I did there?
But they always think they win.
That is the sole reason why you should think that you're superior than them - I congratulate you on that, so I'll be on my way now. Good day to you too, good sir *tips hat*
Trolls do it for the same reason bullies do; because they are amused by the attention and by other people reacting to them. The more you react, the more fun they get from you. That means that if you complain about their behaviour, they win. If you tell the admins, they win. If you block them, they win. If you try to ignore them and take their spleen, they win. As soon as they notice you, they win. That's the only rule of their game.
There is a procedure that usually works, eventually.
- Don't care if they win; they'll always win. If you refuse to care, it doesn't matter.
- Do Not Respond; sooner or later they'll get bored and go away.
- Block them after they quit; if you block them before they give up, they'll come back under another account and hit ten times as hard or even bring other trolls against you, too. After, it can help keep them away.
- Use back channels to warn people; if they're already blocked by the easiest targets, trolling is less convenient. But do not advise your friends publicly, that attracts trolls. Use PM or email.
- If you see somebody being trolled, send a Trouble Ticket, then shut up; trolls can't retaliate if they don't know who reported them.
One other thing; by their acts yee shall know them. There are trolls who claim to be furries trying to clean out all the "furfaggotry." Don't buy it. First of all, even if that were their motive, it's not their place to decide who's allowed to be a furry or what Furry fandom is allowed to be like. More importantly, you don't make a group better by steering them towards being more callous and less sympathetic. (That's what bullying is all about. It's also what the procedure above will do to you over time, but it's the only thing that works. Again, the bad guys win.) There's an old saying; a friend who's warm, polite and friendly to you but rude to the waiter is not a friend.
Be safe, everybody. Good luck!
'Nuff said.
You clearly fail to understand trolls, which is fine. Most furs dont. The fact is that by trolling the dead, these trolls have indirectly trolled people like YOU who get reactions like these. I do agree, however, that there should be a line. I support trolling and all, but there's a limit where it just gets kind of extreme. To me, trolling the dead seems kind of excessive and lame. I myself would prefer a more direct reaction whenever I've trolled.
Regardless, just because the internet has high involvement in currency transactions and businesses doesnt mean the internet is serious business. When trolls admonish those who take it too seriously, it's for the social aspect of the internet. Furries are a huge example of that. When I see furs get pissed at each other for making constructive criticism, I see just one more reason we need trolls. People who are THAT easily offended need to be conditioned by more hardcore trolls.
By you even making this journal, you yourself have been trolled by those who've been trolling the dead. Indirect trolling is a fairly new concept to me, and I honestly dont see the point in it, but it clearly worked on you.
I seriously suggest using
I also noticed something upon reading a comment from
You're running the ANTI-Drama Llama Movement, yet all you ever post is dramatic shit. I suggest you keep your trollbait opinions to yourself and quit trying to raise drama awareness on an account based on NO DRAMA!
I watch the ADLM so I can find and give support to furs in need. Not so I can hear someone bitch and moan over a bunch of trollbait bullshit. Keep that shit in your own journal, kthx
Don't confuse addressing drama as creating drama. Acknowledging drama is critical if it's ever going to be dealt with. Not everything can be solved by ignoring it or running away. That was an issue I was addressing in the last journal.
I do want to continue to help those who need financial help, emotional support, tech support, and others. I still do that daily over at the
I've said before, even in my welcome letter that I PM to those that ask how to get in that the ADLM will be a place of discussion. This is just one of them. Already I'm seeing people voicing their experiences, their feelings, their sides, and many are acting civilly, and some are also helping keep others in check.
And frankly, I'm not afraid if some see this as trollbait because frankly...
...the entire existence of the ADLM is trollbait. Anything we do, good, bad, or otherwise, is going to be trollbait. As far as I'm concerned in this situation, the trolls bring the drama and we just address it. You can agree or disagree if you want, but that's how I feel.
Anyway, I better call this a night. I'll be posting this as a submission tomorrow. I wonder what kind of reaction will come because of what I write. I do know one reaction though...
...I showed this to a person I was chatting with. They said that my journal made them cry. Yeah, I know. Even I'm still thinking over on that.
~Otaku-Man
"Do Not Respond; sooner or later they'll get bored and go away."
This rule is crucial. I have gone by the same guidelines as Dotter and I havent been trolled in years. Nobody has even tried to START a trolling attempt on me. I seriously think it would be easier on everyone if you started following the guidelines he posted, at least for the ADLM.
Tell you what, perhaps you can help advise me to some ways on how I can make things a bit more positive. I'd certainly be interested in hearing them. I know for starters is spreading Dotter's tips on troll aversion so that not only can the ADLM practice them, but also those who are ADLM members as well. That there will help curb the tide of drama a great deal.
I think after this, I'll have finished saying my piece on addressing issues, both past and present, and focus more on providing tips and information, akin to what Dotter did. I think that the double edged sword is that while journals like this may be trollbait, they also bring out some really good advice and ideas too. Just look at you and your devil's advocacy. :)
So now that I've addressed the issue, let's work on what can be done. Would you be willing to help with that? :)
~Otaku-Man
However, now that you mention it, I think awareness CAN be a good thing, when put in the right light. To teach furs how to keep from being trolled seems to be a far better method than trying to raise awareness of various trolling acts. I honestly swear by this method of anti-trolling techniques as Dotter mentioned. Being gay, a girlyboi to the extent of having a female fursona, a BABYFUR no less, and still able to avoid trolls for nearly 3 years, it's fairly obvious how effective the guidelines can be :3
I saw you posted your IM info on your profile and sent a request to chat. I'd like to talk with you more since I think I could learn a thing or two from you that can help make the ADLM better.
But as of right now, I am beat and must retire for the evening. I won't be changing this journal, and will still be posting it as a submission tomorrow (as I have the past two journals and something I hope to make a trend of), but after this, I definitely think that a "softer" approach that focuses on more positive aspects of what people can do to make their lives better will be a good thing. I think I've said my piece here, and now that it's out of my system, I think it's time to move on the next step.
Sound good?
Thanks again for the feedback and excellent counter-pointing. I hope to talk with you more.
~Otaku-Man
~Otaku-Man
I do not support trolling.
I can not support trolling.
To me, trolling is not a way to solve drama. It merely bullies the bullies which just makes more bullies. After reading the article, I had to say something. Even if it meant the trolls won, I had to say something, because to me, this is unacceptable behavior for humans. Trolling the dead like that is inhuman. If getting coverage on the Daily Show is a win for the troll, then I don't see how. It just makes for national disgust for trolls. So is the ultimate goal of trolls is for people to eliminate trolls?
Instead of trolls, I'd rather see mediators, negotiators, and peace makers. I may not live to see that, but it is what I hope for. It's what I've wanted since the ADLM's conception.
It's not all the ADLM is about, but it's what I'm focusing on now because of that article. And I want to remind you that if you think, even for an instant, that what those people who trolled the memorial page of the girl that killed herself could possibly justifiable...
...don't forget that those same trolls are being charged for committing felonies for what they did, and are being sought after by the police.
~Otaku-Man
P.S. If I lose your support over this, it's okay. It won't break the movement. But if you ever want to come back, you're more than welcome to.
I never said it was a way to solve drama, and I agree that it doesnt in any way. I find that trolling helps condition people to be less butthurt.
Dont get me wrong- I'm not condoning trolling the dead in any way. I think it's kind of stupid, to be honest, and I completely agree that there's a fine line that needs to be drawn between trolling and illegal cyber-bullying. But to go AWOL like this over any form of trolling, even this form, is just giving those trolls more satisfaction in what they did. As I said, you need to take dotter's guidelines into consideration and just stop reacting over this shit. I think the ADLM could be a lot better if you just stopped spreading drama like this. If the group was made to prevent drama, then you need to learn not to spread it by whining like this. I think you'd find your job of preventing drama a lot easier if the ADLM kept a more positive demeanor.
Also, one thing I don't like is having journals like these being considered "Whining". Who determines where the line is that separates "making my voice heard" and "whining"? For me, whining has always been throwing temper tantrums and being, well, bratty. In this case, I see myself as basically taking a stand, voicing my thoughts and feelings, and trying to spread awareness that there's a line that separates trolling and cyber-bullying.
Another thing I don't like is how "Addressing" drama somehow equates to "Spreading" drama. If anything, this is the kind of thing that won't go away if it's ignored. So how is it supposed to be dealt with, and how else are people going to be made aware and see the links that I posted up there with information and resources about dealing with trolls and cyber-bullying, if I don't say anything.
Could I have said it using gentler words? Probably so. However, like I said, I've been hob nobbing with some hard edged people and have even been told that my approach is "soft". I guess you could say that using the powerful wording that I use here is my way of showing that I'm not soft, and am willing to actually take a stand if necessary.
Going back to Dotter, I think I'll add those in, either as an EDIT to this journal at the end, or as its own journal since they are VERY good pieces of advice.
I also appreciate you clarifying your stance on those who troll the dead. For a minute there, I wasn't quite sure on your stance. And I also want to thank you for providing a counter point to my journal and argument in a well thought out, detailed, and civil manner. If the way you write with comments like these is what you consider "trolling" with other people, then I wish all trolls could be like you.
Educated, well thought out, civil, and honest.
While I did say the ADLM wouldn't break if it lost you, I definitely think it would be a shame since you are definitely one of the most eloquent Devil's Advocates I've seen here.
~Otaku-Man
You'd actually be surprised just how civil most trolls can be, when not out trolling. I troll just like any other when I actually feel like trolling. In fact, it takes quite a bit of intelligence to be a good troll :3 Also, I have no intention of leaving the ADLM, as that would'nt be too far from 'quitting the fandom' style drama xD
And also, I'm very glad you're going to stay with the ADLM. If it's alright, I think I'd like your help with the next journal to give it the "softer" and more "positive" focus that it needs. A powerful journal isn't powerful if it motivates but gives no help or information. I got that in a bit with the links to the cyber-bullying resource sites, but I think I do need to do better when shifting gears from motivating to illuminating.
...okay, I got to get some sleep. It's 3 AM where I am, and my brain is starting to shut down.
Again, thanks for all the comments.
~Otaku-Man
YOU come get the voodoo.
I would agree with Greybrother and suggest a toned down approach. A message about remembering the lines drawn for social interaction doesn't benefit from shouting. And on the internet, caps are shouting. ^^;
It invites more heated discussion, and I don't think that's your aim. (this comes from someone who's guilty of it a hundred times over; I'm just sharing experience, here)
And with ShadeKoba, too: talk as much as possible about the things that are the absolute opposite of everything you don't endorse. Talk about the things you want to encourage. It can take a bit more effort to phrase and find, but it helps cancel out the negativity instead of adding to it.
It's not easy, but it pays off on a personal scale, so I'm sure it pays off on a community scale as well. :)
I doubt trolling averages out to benefit anyone. It's only about feeding ones ego and pooping on others' heads with the bravery of being out of range. In most cases there are other more effective ways of getting the message across. There's no actual need to be a fucktard. Have some class.
That is all.
I don't have much to say to those people, since I don't really understand them.
Wikifaqs explains everything (Read SteriLUEzation to see how fucked up it was)
http://www.wikifaqs.net/index.php?t.....and_Everything
however, there are lines i do not cross. i don't just regurgitate overused memes such as "yiff in hell" or other nonsense. (though, i've used the "u mad" and other ones but those aren't meant to inflame per-se... just depends on who it is and how they act.) and i will never troll someone like in the article posted. (there is a time and a place for everything.)
it's not that i get a thrill, it's that i don't like to tolerate bad behavior. i know i'm not the one to decide what is and what is not acceptable behavior in the grander scheme, i just go with what i've always been taught... such as no whining about something just for the sake of whining (if it's bad, do what you can to fix it) or expecting people to clean up others' messes... that sort of thing. i see people get swept up and taken away by a lot of drama and depending on the situation i might poke at them or i might just facepalm (such as when people abuse the good natures of the fandom and beg... then turn around and abuse said good nature... Allan comes to mind, so do a lot of other "i'm poor and have bills... Help me please" (and then you find them dropping hundreds of dollars on going to conventions or other luxuries which they do not need.)
now, granted, there are times when i will lose my cool and that's when the claws come out, but in a sense, being a mildly trollish person kinda helps me keep that in check. it's better (in my opinion) to express my emotions however that may be as opposed to bottling them up and risking them to overflow. and as for losing my cool, well, everyone gets to that point at some time or another. it's nothing to really be ashamed of so long as you're not actually causing harm (i don't consider people feeling bad at being pointed out for bad behavior as "harm" since one's ego is often the only thing that gets hurt and sometimes it's good to have your ego's bruised occaisionally.)
but, i guess that's where this question comes in... are you talking about trolling or are you talking about internet stalking and bullying? to me there is a difference.
In the dialogue I had with
So what this journal did was sort of stoke the fires to get people motivated about the subject and have a desire to learn more. The journal after this that I'm going to work on with ShadeKoba won't so much stir emotions as it will take the emotions already stirred and give them information, tips, and resources so they can learn more about the differences between trolling and bullying and what they can (or should not do) when dealing with each.
Already, some good tips have come out from some of the posts here, and I intend to use them in the next journal.
Thanks again for the well written comment. I appreciate it.
~Otaku-Man
but yeah, be careful. i'm positive there is a line between trolling and stalking/bullying, but where that line is is up for debate.
and as has been mentioned before, these sorts of journals are troll-bait. my suggestion? if someone comes on as being a blatant troll only out to bait you, just let it slide. most times they're newfags anyway and have not one ounce of creativity or imagination. not worth anyone's time and it's insanely awesome being an oldfag seeing newfags try so very, very hard and fail so very, very miserably (doubly so if they fail to get the reaction they crave.)
I posted this journal as a submission the next day as I've begun doing that for people who have expressed an interest in faving my journals. That submission got slammed pretty hard, and I think one or two people tried posting in defense, but it got pretty troll heavy. I'm not really worried, and am just letting it slide.
One thing I got a bit of was that people said that FD_2 shouldn't have been mentioned since it's a "snark" site. Apparently FD_2 has some rules that need members must follow if they are to continue participating on the board. I'm currently looking into it to find out more about why "Snarking" is different from "Trolling" as it might help define a lesser level of what most would consider "trolling".
For the cyber-bullying, I'm going to be reading up on the websites devoted to stopping and preventing cyber-bullying to try and get their definitions and share them with the ADLM watchers, as well as the tips for what to do when encountering cyber-bullying.
I think it will be very useful.
~Otaku-Man
trolling is usually confronting the person that made whatever it is that is being made fun of.
You don't get the big picture, and frankly asspats and people agreeing just for the simple fact that being a meanie is "bad" aren't helping the situation.
Addressing shit like this is baiting trolls and responding to them. You don't respond, they don't think you're worthy of their time after a while. That's what you don't seem to get through that thick skull of yours. You post drama, there will be drama. FD_2 has the right idea on how to go about it. You set yourself up for the worst kinds of trolls any fandom has to offer. Perhaps you should go back to aiding those in need instead of stepping over boundaries into a battlefield you have barely any knowledge in.
It takes a troll to know a troll, and prey to be prey.
Duh, trolling the dead is bad and pointless, but it happens and we can't stop it, especially not in mindnumbinngly long journal posts on a site that only people part of the furry fandom really know about. It won't do anything, it won't solve anything, it'll just spawn more drama as it already has.
Get off your soapbox using this account and move it to your personal account. That's the most intelligent thing you can do now.
Or feed the trolls, that's your choice.
Don't bother to respond, because you'll just write some long, absent minded wall of text bigger than this on how you missed the point, then put that damn "signature" like it means something.
Trolling the dead is awesome!
The dead are just that... Dead! So troll them all you like they won't mind.
If they troll the dead that uses up their time from annoying the living.
When I'm dead you can say anything you want about me. Troll away!
-Fluf was a complete cunt ass butt munching furfag who cut off dog dicks to rape infants with!
-He did that?
-Fuck yeah! What an ass hole burn in hell douche butt much shit for brain durr head!
Meanwhile, the part that used to be my brain that drew bunnies getting fucked up the ass is being pooped by worms.
I don't think you should be calling out furrydrama_2 like that. Furrydrama is not a community for trolling, it's a snark community, and going offsite to harass people is severely looked down upon. It also has nothing to do with trolls in general, and it feels like you're just trying to call the community out because they insulted you.
As far as the rest of the journal goes. Yes trolling is bad, and trolling the dead is downright disrespectful. But the best way to get rid of a troll is to stop feeding a troll, and most of the trolls are enjoying your journals here because it's giving them attention.