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how to act responsible 101 for artists and their customers
18 years ago
this is stolen from someone else's journal, who stole it from someone else who found it on the net, along with some more comments which make sense. i think you get the picture... this is by no way menat to rise drama, so please, if you read this, be responsible with your comments. thank you.
now, enjoy:
the artist side:
10. Yes, artists deserve the "ridiculous" prices they charge. Consider the fact that your average pic takes about four hours from sketch to final coloring: if you pay $40 that's $10 an hour. So no, $10 is not an appropriate price for a full-color, full length drawing.
9. Just because they draw pr0n doesn't mean they'll draw your pr0n.
8. Bitching at an artist every hour until they do your commission is not a good way to motivate them.
7. Just because she's submissive doesn't mean she wants to submit to you. Just because she's domme doesn't mean she wants you as a pet.
6. It's okay to live and let live. The fact that they don't share your interest doesn't make them a bad person. Pushing your interests on them makes you a jerk.
5. Chatting with someone for five minutes does not mean they love you, nor does it make them your friend, your mate, your buddy, nor even a casual acquaintance.
4. Believing you're actually a dragon in a human body is fine. Thinking this makes you so much better than everyone else out there makes you a narcissistic jerk.
3. It's spelled HUMAN. H-U-M-A-N. If you use "Hyoomon" in serious conversation, you are either a Ferengi or a moron.
2. Buying a commission from an artist does not entitle you to cybor or picz. Buying a book from Barnes and Nobel doesn't entitle you to a free bj from the author.
1. When in doubt, remember Winston Churchill: "A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
* * *
the middle path:
10. Not all fans are fanboys, or at least some of us try not to be.
9. Making snide comments about the physiques, manners, or odor of fans, as a generalization, is something understanding fans will allow. You're under a lot of stress. But if you do, while we may let it slide, we won't forget. Your opinion matters-- and hurts.
8. If we like your work, we'll buy stuff to support you even if we aren't absolutely thrilled by what's on the sale table this time. Believe it or not.
7. A commission is a deal, a deal is a contract, and a contract applies to you as much as it does to us.
6. We don't pay you what it's worth because we can't. Nobody could.
5. If you can't do it, say so before money exchanges hands.
4. It really doesn't make your fan happy if you take a commission and then complain publicly about the subject matter, or the detail level the fan provided you for that commission. Even if you don't name names, the commissioner will still recognize himself.
3. If the commissioner says "Please draw me a horsie," and no more, perhaps it's because the last person he commissioned from likes wide-open, general suggestions. If you prefer more detail, don't stew about it and don't complain about it. Ask.
2. If on the other hand the commissioner specifies everything down to the number of stitches in a saddle girth and the number of horseshoe nails on his horse commission, perhaps it's because the last person he commissioned from wants that much detail. Some do. If you'd rather do something else, please don't complain about it. Ask.
1. After ten years or so of trying to support artists one likes, and of being insulted, talked about, and lumped in as one of a million greasy, stinky fanboys-- we quit. We stop supporting artists. We give up and stay home.
* * *
the customer's side:
10. Spending the money you got from a commission should generally be avoided until you've at least started on it.
9. Your ego should not be proportional to the square of your art skills.
8. Similarly, your level of general assholishness shouldn't increase with your level of art skill.
7. The fact that you have a skill which people will wait in line for is your good fortune and shouldn't be abused.
6. Working on multiple personal projects while customers wait for what they paid for is just as rude when it comes to furry art as it does a retail store.
5. When someone pre-pays for art, their money is their deposit, and your good reputation is yours. If you decide not to do their commission, not only are you a thief, but they have every right to let everyone know that.
4. It's OK to make friends with someone who isn't "as good" of an artist as you, or an artist at all--hopefully there's more going on in your life and making and receiving drawings.
3. Ignoring thoughtful feedback from a no-name art appreciator while responding to mindless feedback from a big-name artist makes you an elitist jerk.
2. When it's already been paid for, six hours for a good drawing is great time, six days is average time, six weeks is bad time, six months is unacceptable.
1. Your drawing skills are no more or less impressive than other skills, such as writing, music, programming, or other skilled creative expression. The only reason you're "better" than most other people is because you perpetuate the view that none of those other skills are worth the years of refinement and practice that go into them. Don't fool yourself into thinking that everyone around you who doesn't draw is skilled only in masturbation.
now, enjoy:
the artist side:
10. Yes, artists deserve the "ridiculous" prices they charge. Consider the fact that your average pic takes about four hours from sketch to final coloring: if you pay $40 that's $10 an hour. So no, $10 is not an appropriate price for a full-color, full length drawing.
9. Just because they draw pr0n doesn't mean they'll draw your pr0n.
8. Bitching at an artist every hour until they do your commission is not a good way to motivate them.
7. Just because she's submissive doesn't mean she wants to submit to you. Just because she's domme doesn't mean she wants you as a pet.
6. It's okay to live and let live. The fact that they don't share your interest doesn't make them a bad person. Pushing your interests on them makes you a jerk.
5. Chatting with someone for five minutes does not mean they love you, nor does it make them your friend, your mate, your buddy, nor even a casual acquaintance.
4. Believing you're actually a dragon in a human body is fine. Thinking this makes you so much better than everyone else out there makes you a narcissistic jerk.
3. It's spelled HUMAN. H-U-M-A-N. If you use "Hyoomon" in serious conversation, you are either a Ferengi or a moron.
2. Buying a commission from an artist does not entitle you to cybor or picz. Buying a book from Barnes and Nobel doesn't entitle you to a free bj from the author.
1. When in doubt, remember Winston Churchill: "A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
* * *
the middle path:
10. Not all fans are fanboys, or at least some of us try not to be.
9. Making snide comments about the physiques, manners, or odor of fans, as a generalization, is something understanding fans will allow. You're under a lot of stress. But if you do, while we may let it slide, we won't forget. Your opinion matters-- and hurts.
8. If we like your work, we'll buy stuff to support you even if we aren't absolutely thrilled by what's on the sale table this time. Believe it or not.
7. A commission is a deal, a deal is a contract, and a contract applies to you as much as it does to us.
6. We don't pay you what it's worth because we can't. Nobody could.
5. If you can't do it, say so before money exchanges hands.
4. It really doesn't make your fan happy if you take a commission and then complain publicly about the subject matter, or the detail level the fan provided you for that commission. Even if you don't name names, the commissioner will still recognize himself.
3. If the commissioner says "Please draw me a horsie," and no more, perhaps it's because the last person he commissioned from likes wide-open, general suggestions. If you prefer more detail, don't stew about it and don't complain about it. Ask.
2. If on the other hand the commissioner specifies everything down to the number of stitches in a saddle girth and the number of horseshoe nails on his horse commission, perhaps it's because the last person he commissioned from wants that much detail. Some do. If you'd rather do something else, please don't complain about it. Ask.
1. After ten years or so of trying to support artists one likes, and of being insulted, talked about, and lumped in as one of a million greasy, stinky fanboys-- we quit. We stop supporting artists. We give up and stay home.
* * *
the customer's side:
10. Spending the money you got from a commission should generally be avoided until you've at least started on it.
9. Your ego should not be proportional to the square of your art skills.
8. Similarly, your level of general assholishness shouldn't increase with your level of art skill.
7. The fact that you have a skill which people will wait in line for is your good fortune and shouldn't be abused.
6. Working on multiple personal projects while customers wait for what they paid for is just as rude when it comes to furry art as it does a retail store.
5. When someone pre-pays for art, their money is their deposit, and your good reputation is yours. If you decide not to do their commission, not only are you a thief, but they have every right to let everyone know that.
4. It's OK to make friends with someone who isn't "as good" of an artist as you, or an artist at all--hopefully there's more going on in your life and making and receiving drawings.
3. Ignoring thoughtful feedback from a no-name art appreciator while responding to mindless feedback from a big-name artist makes you an elitist jerk.
2. When it's already been paid for, six hours for a good drawing is great time, six days is average time, six weeks is bad time, six months is unacceptable.
1. Your drawing skills are no more or less impressive than other skills, such as writing, music, programming, or other skilled creative expression. The only reason you're "better" than most other people is because you perpetuate the view that none of those other skills are worth the years of refinement and practice that go into them. Don't fool yourself into thinking that everyone around you who doesn't draw is skilled only in masturbation.
Very nice.
Respect is a two way street that can lost on a lonely highway to no where but a dead end.
says Konfuzius.
"6. Working on multiple personal projects while customers wait for what they paid for is just as rude when it comes to furry art as it does a retail store."
Whereas I COMPLETELY understand this point, there are exceptions. I *WILL ABSOLUTELY NOT* draw on Sundays or Mondays. Those are my days off. I do not work on those days, and commissions are work. They are my second job, so to speak. I will do commissions Tuesday-Saturday after I get done with work. We artists need breaks, too, and people don't seem to get that. We're working for $1-$3 an hour, usually, and that is slave labor. I personally see nothing wrong with an artist taking their weekend off to work on personal stuff, as long as they do get commissions done during the week AND keep their customers updated constantly about the status of their commission. The artist should also tell the customer that they take these days off. However, if you see the artist uploading absolutely nothing but their own personal work for quiet awhile and you don't see any commissions getting done, *then* you might have a bit of a problem and the customer should contact the artist and go "Hey... what the hell?" As of right now, I'm booked so solid with commissions that I'm pissing paint and hwarfing up sketches. Since I'm so busy, I am now doing commissions on my days off. This is rare for me, though. But since I have so many, I'll make an exception.
"2. When it's already been paid for, six hours for a good drawing is great time, six days is average time, six weeks is bad time, six months is unacceptable."
I disagree, and again, it depends on who you are commissioning. If anyone commissions me right now, they *know* they may be waiting quiet awhile before they get their commission or newest porn to add to their collection. There are SO many factors that go into play in this rule:
A. The artist may be booked solid and you're #18 on the commission list. However, the artist should absolutely tell the customer of his place in line and say, "You're going to be waiting for awhile." If the customer agrees, then he has absolutely no right to bitch at the artist 3 weeks down the road when his piece isn't done. He knew from the start he had a long wait.
B. The artist may work with real media, which can take a long time to work with, especially oils. Also, it depends on WHAT you wanted the artist to draw. If you want a 2 page commission with detailed everything, it's going to take some time, such as a commission I have right now. XD It's taking me awhile but I do not want to rush it. I'd rather my commissions look good in the end instead of crappy because everyone wanted me to hurry.
C. The artist actually has a life outside of drawing which includes family, friends, work, getting sick, household responsibilities, funerals, interviews, etc. We're not machines simply here to draw everyone what they choose. We are living, breathing human beings who have needs and desires, much like the customer. Life gets in the way a lot and can slow down the commission process.
D. The artist would like a little break, and there is nothing wrong with that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the artist stretching out in the sun for a day. Sometimes when example C happens, you really need to just be quiet. However, if the artist is doing nothing BUT laying down day after day after day, then you may have a problem.
On the customer's defense, the artists have some responsibilities, as well, with this example. We artists should always keep our customers updated. It doesn't take long at all to mass email every customer and write down the commission queue. It's also good to provide your customers with a commission queue that is constantly updated, so they can check it to see where they are at on the list. Also, we artists should recognize that the customer is bouncing around like a kid on Christmas morning, so excited to get his commission, and we should feel good that we are able to bring that sort of joy to someone. However, we should realize that because the customer is so excited, he wants his piece now. Instead of getting snippy with the customer, we should simply explain his status and be very patient. However, there is a point when the customer bugs the artist so much that it is called harrassment. In this case, I refund HALF of the money and cancel the commission. It's on my rules and regulations page.
There is a very fine line with this respect. I feel that customers often think of us artists as their machines. Just because you paid us doesn't mean we're here to cater to your every whim and time frame. In fact, the customers should cater to OUR time frame, as long as it is 100% reasonable and fair. However, the artists should not get an ego trip, as you mentioned above, just because they can can draw better than most Disney animators, and be understanding and kind to the overly-excited customers. It is a 2-way street but a lot of yield signs are overlooked. :)
Fantastic post hun. I think I'll take this and expand on it on my own page! :D *hugs*
and thank you for your lengthy explanations. you should include it at the end of your post.
heh* knock yourself out, ma'am. :)
It's not hard to point out who the big ego artists either. You can just skim through their art pages, and everything will fall into place. How do they present themselves? Do they say something along the lines of "I don't do requests for people I don't know very well, or hardly at all. So I almost never give out free art to those I don't know." Or along the lines of "I don't do requests, END OF STORY. Ask me and you'll get banninated. Yeah, I know it's sad, Emo prick." ((pardon my french)) Usually when I see the latter, it immediately sends up red flags on arrogance/humility. Another thing I point out, though not always a dead giveaway, is the popularity of their pages. What is their watch/watching ratio? Usually if it's way high in being watched over watches, it means one of a few. It could mean they're extremely popular and well-known coupled off with business, or they just don't care about his or her viewers, could be a couple examples.
Though there are modest artists, and being an artist commissioner on art pages isn't nessicarily the best job to have. few are low-profile with their art, some draw exclusively, few draw giftfully, few do it for the cash at any cost, and few are very elitist with their art. I hope one day I don't end up being that customer the artist I commission decides to publically embarass, should I ever commission.
A thoughtful thing there, I enjoyed the read.. n.n
Also, I disagree about the watcher/watch ratio. I watch artists who are otherwise good friends of mine (it'd hurt their feelings if I didn't watch them and I want to show them support), or people whom I study for artistic reasons. I don't want my submission box being filled with all sorts of stuff. I want to be able to study the piece. I have 800 watchers. I'm watching about 150. Does that make me a snob? Absolutely not.
There is such a fine line between the respect of artists and customers, and it should be handled carefully. On one hand, as an artist, I will not be treated like a machine to make art or charge very little for my pieces. My time is valuable and I have a life outside of my art. On the other hand, I don't think any artist has the right to act like they are high and mighty and better than anyone. In fact, I think the fantastic omg artists should lend a hand when a beginner artist wants to know tips or tricks. I state very loudly on my main FA page that if anyone ever needs help, to please ask me. :)
So, just because the artist has a lot of watches and doesn't do free art or charge little, doesn't always necessarily make us egotistical snobs. :) Some art, but not all of us. :3
again, noting the posts, the elitist artists, more often than not, give very little respect to their fans, sometimes the ratio being one clue of many. But again, this doesn't apply to every artists, but can definately be a good clue.
Basically in a nutshell, Spiritcreations, is that I'm not implying that an artist's egotism isn't validated by what you disagree with "Which I agree, such factors can be held true", but the way they present themselves. When the artist is asked for a request, which are very underappreciated when actually done I might add.. does he or she kindly decline, or snarl and decline?
Most good artists have watchers that exceed the ones they watch. My good friend mocha is a total sweetheart, and definately has more watchers. You're also an example of having that high rate. Chances are you've earned it. n.n
when i re-entered the fandom after four years of internet absence (i attended cons all the way, i just was cut off the net) i went to IRC and asked people whose names i didn't recognize, and if they had interesting characters, i offered a char pic for free. just to spread the word, get experience, and maybe find new fans. (though i am well aware that my art sucks, and i mostly draw for myself, everyone who likes that stuff gives me the fuzzies) i think it worked.
mostly.
until the day i found someone who was too stupid to answer my definite questions which lead into a drawing of five hours straight fit for the dustbin.
some incident like this can make any artist consider requests from close friends only from now on.
i can understand if someone does not do requests period. maybe that artist had bad experiences with collectors out for cheap art, and whose bitched around or humiliated the artist who spent a considerable amount of life time to draw for someone who doesn't even appreciate the effort? or maybe not. the more popular an artist, the more often someone comes belly up and asks for that part of their lifes. and you get the impression that they just collect without actually liking it.
of course the sound makes the music. and i myself am prone to a hissy fit when facing someone who emanates arrogance like a musky odour.
as the watch vs. watchers list in my personal case, i have many watchers who are no artists themselves. trying not to sound arrogant, i have no means watching someone's page where nothing seems to happen. there are exceptions, though. Wuffamute seems an overall nice guy, and i actually enjoy his exploits in real life he posts every now and then.
additionally i have my own taste in art style, so i wacth whose art i like. and since i want to keep their art on my hard drive (some artists remove stuff every few months or so, so it gets lost to me otherwise) i shovel it down and comment along the line. watching a four-story count of artists simply is too much, so i tend to pick them out. nothing personal.
favs are some other issue, i see it as a special compliment, so i use it rarely.
rest assured that the day i embarass a customer openly without a good cause is the day i lay my pencil aside for good. i got three customers who dodged me on the few euros i take per comission, and still i don't go and make it widely known.
everybody knows them here anyway. :)
Out of curiosity, who'd you get the commissioner's one from? I'm trying to track down where all my original posting has traveled to xP
can't seem to remember where the end part came from, i believe it was a crosslink from some other journal. i tend to remove messages for overview purposes in my control panel. i'm sorry, but you might have to look around.
thanks for your comment, btw. :)