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FUCK Artistic Envy
15 years ago
General
I'm not really proofreading any of this, but here; I'll just spout the silly whining that's on my mind at the moment. I'm sure it's not anything you haven't heard before, as follows:
Apparently, HTTYD hit Korea in a big way, and I was linked to a portal where a ton of korean fan-sites have sprung up. Many of them are chock-full of fantastic fanart.
Among the various links was this board (which I recommend you browse through fully, almost every single submission is fucking incredible stuff) and hidden in there was a short comic that I stumbled upon.
It touches upon some of the same themes I've brought up already in my own project. And even though I don't speak korean, it's mostly silent and it reads very easily.
It's also very moving. In fact, I found it to be amazingly well done, for what it was.
Seeing something like this, which covers essentially the same topic I have been trying to address, and so deftly doing so even across a language barrier...
Well, it's made my attempt look very clumsy and ham-fisted by comparison.
It's frustrating.
Oh, I know that no matter what I do, there will always be artists that are 'better'. And yes, this comic stuff is still new to me. I can only hope to try my best, and push on, right?
I understand all that. It's just that with art, in my experience, there's usually a few degrees of separation between everything. Sure, there are better artists, but they usually have different ideas... or at least, they choose to represent those ideas differently from you. I've never had a moment where I was working on an idea, attempting to realize it; and then suddenly see someone else interpret and render that very same idea, and do so more successfully.
Until now, that is.
On a related point: I know this topic has been discussed to death, (and is prone to sweeping generalizations) but I really do prefer the look of eastern manga-style artwork.
Well, that's probably obvious.
I have been trying to avoid emulating that style in the comic, however. Simply because I know I wouldn't be able do it justice. It would look... forced. I just don't have the knowledge and practice and technical skill to make it feel natural. I have tried before. I imagine it would take many years of trying. It feels foolish, when I try: I wasn't born into that culture, I wasn't taught to draw in that way. It's just the fanboy in me that looks across the pond and ogles at a style that I know I'll never really be able to grasp.
It's silly and irrational, but I know it's true. Especially after it was so deftly demonstrated by this Korean artist, whose name I cannot even read.
Somehow, fundamentally, this Korean artist and I, we stand apart.
*edit* whoops, well apparently my hotlinking has shut down their site for going over bandwidth limits :X
Apparently, HTTYD hit Korea in a big way, and I was linked to a portal where a ton of korean fan-sites have sprung up. Many of them are chock-full of fantastic fanart.
Among the various links was this board (which I recommend you browse through fully, almost every single submission is fucking incredible stuff) and hidden in there was a short comic that I stumbled upon.
It touches upon some of the same themes I've brought up already in my own project. And even though I don't speak korean, it's mostly silent and it reads very easily.
It's also very moving. In fact, I found it to be amazingly well done, for what it was.
Seeing something like this, which covers essentially the same topic I have been trying to address, and so deftly doing so even across a language barrier...
Well, it's made my attempt look very clumsy and ham-fisted by comparison.
It's frustrating.
Oh, I know that no matter what I do, there will always be artists that are 'better'. And yes, this comic stuff is still new to me. I can only hope to try my best, and push on, right?
I understand all that. It's just that with art, in my experience, there's usually a few degrees of separation between everything. Sure, there are better artists, but they usually have different ideas... or at least, they choose to represent those ideas differently from you. I've never had a moment where I was working on an idea, attempting to realize it; and then suddenly see someone else interpret and render that very same idea, and do so more successfully.
Until now, that is.
On a related point: I know this topic has been discussed to death, (and is prone to sweeping generalizations) but I really do prefer the look of eastern manga-style artwork.
Well, that's probably obvious.
I have been trying to avoid emulating that style in the comic, however. Simply because I know I wouldn't be able do it justice. It would look... forced. I just don't have the knowledge and practice and technical skill to make it feel natural. I have tried before. I imagine it would take many years of trying. It feels foolish, when I try: I wasn't born into that culture, I wasn't taught to draw in that way. It's just the fanboy in me that looks across the pond and ogles at a style that I know I'll never really be able to grasp.
It's silly and irrational, but I know it's true. Especially after it was so deftly demonstrated by this Korean artist, whose name I cannot even read.
Somehow, fundamentally, this Korean artist and I, we stand apart.
*edit* whoops, well apparently my hotlinking has shut down their site for going over bandwidth limits :X
And before judging your comic in full, I think I'll wait until it's done. Because a comic is more than just images; it's a story told in images and words. I want to see your comic to be able to appreciate it as a whole. And, right now, it would be comparing a fully cooked and topped pizza with a half-baked pizza crust; one's just not finished nor far along to say it's better or worse than the other.
I think you should give yourself the benefit of the doubt here and make sure that the rests of your comic work ends up better than that. So far, you've proved you have the artistic talent and knowledge to make it so. Now, just gotta work on that narrative and, from what I've seen so far, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.
Keep up the good work, Lando. Keep at it; so far you've proven you're at least as good as those guys.
Prove to yourself you can do even better. :3
*hugs*
You're a great artist Lando, and it's not unnatural for you to feel the way you're feeling but you should let this give you a DRIVE instead of make you feel hopeless. Instead of looking at what you're lacking look at what you're already good at and tell yourself that you can get to any point that you desire. Look back at your much older work and look how far you've come. You can do anything, it's in you.
These people over in Korea and Japan, they really aren't that much different than us. They still have to draw the same things. Why do you think it's so strictly taught in art schools to learn realism before you try and do anything else? Because you have to have a basic knowledge of how things look in reality before you can start to create things that make sense in fantasy and fiction. Any great artist- regardless of where they were born had to start from the same place to be able to do what they do so well already. Sure there are some really great artists out there that never studied realism or went to school, but 9 times out of 10 it took them 3 times as long to get to that point than someone who did studied. There is a man on conceptart.org who went from complete novice- to an incredibly skilled and professional artist in just 7 years. I've been drawing since I was 2 years old and I'm not even 1/4 as good as he is. (This guy here: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sh.....ead.php?t=870)
But I digress.
Animators have to emulate multiple styles to work on certain cartoons and movies. Once you get to a certain point artistically, changing the way you draw things to fit your needs wont seem like such a challenge. The mind is pretty magical thing. I know this sounds cheesey, but- if you tell yourself you can't do something, you most likely cant. However, if you tell yourself that you can achieve something, then you most certainly will. (except for maybe being able to sprout wings and fly... or turn water into wine)
It was even on the History Channel. o.o The Japanese (heck, EVERYONE) didn't start really animating until the 1930s. But Comic books (which originated beforehand) inspired it all.
I will find you documentation. :3
But this explains it decently:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anime
"It may come as a surprise that the classic anime "style" is in fact lifted from American animation. Tezuka was strongly influenced by the work of Walt Disney, and adapted the Disney style to Japanese sensibilities"
*laughs, I am sure no one reading this journal though that - and neither do I !
I love Manga and the eastern look of artwork for Anime and the way they
do stuff like that - but that said - I think your work is hideously
good.
Its silly to compare your work to that of others, don't do it -
your work is your work, and theirs is theirs.
I have worked for years to cultivate my own art skills and I know I am
not ever going to be a "popular" or "godlike" furry artist or whatever -
but I still enjoy drawing, and doing what I do.
I would suggest you enjoy what you can do, strive to improve always,
and have fun with it.
Then attack some Koreans and eats their brains to steal their talent
- Fennec
but only one! >:I
pfft artists~
=P
really tho its how i feel when i look at your or mek's art XD
Also, re the idea that your comic is somehow clumsier because this guy got a similar idea across in two pages. That is not really a valid assessment. Judge and let the readers judge "clumsiness" or deftness based on the finished product. A two page comic vs a longer form comic is like an animated short vs a theatrical release - they may in fact address the same themes as each other, but the shorter product is not better simply because it's shorter. It's a different form entirely. A longer form allows for more development, more artwork, more everything, and can be just as rich or more so as the shorter form. By its nature the shorter form is going to need to be more abstract and to get right to the point, and while sometimes that can be powerful it is also true that sometimes the pleasure is in the journey.
In short, you shouldn't let yourself be frustrated by this stuff, Lando. You're a great artist, one of the best in this fandom, and it's good to see you finally regularly doing artwork again; I would certainly hope you wouldn't let yourself feel stifled or unable to compete or "what's the point of finishing this?" just because you saw some other artwork you liked.
Not with HTTYD... I never even watched the movie... cause I'm affraid it's gona proove to me that everything I imagined in my own story and drawings has already been done on a much higher level and quality.
And a lot of the ideas I came up with on my own... B4 I ever got access to the internet or even to cable tv I discovered ( quite painfully ) that were already done by professionals... that realization... well, it hurt. It really did.
Really kills willpower to know that something you came up with on your own was already put on the spotlight by somebody else with witch you had no conection B4...
You, my friend, have accomplished this. There's plenty of people who envy your style and artistic ability. I just hope one day that I'll be right up there with you.
I do understand what you mean though. I went through the same thing with my photography. In the end I stopped doing it to compete with others and suddenly my work seemed a whole lot better.
On the topic of styles, I like them all. Personally, I've never quite understood what makes manga so much better than western style. Then again, I'm not really an artist, so perhaps I don't understand.
Actually, I like your style because it seems to combine elements of western and eastern.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4262430/
It's healthy however to see things this way since it does keep you striving to keep getting better in different ways.
Bottom line, even if YOU think thier stuff is better than yours, I'll think YOUR stuff is better than thiers.
Pfft.
Someone swings. You swing harder.
Someone shoots for the moon. You shoot for the stars.
Someone beats you to the punch, you work on the kick.
Don't consider it one-upsmenship, think of it as compounding the idea. This ... vision or whatever you have, do you really think that you're tarnishing it by your own attempt? If this thought of yours is also a thought they share, think of how many people more might share it, and just not know it? You owe it to yourself, to this other guy, and to the very idea to spread it as far and as wide as you can.
Those links you posted are already broken, so whatever this grand line you two share, I don't know it yet. Hey. Educate me! You tell me this story in YOUR words, and we'll see who tells it better, eh?
And if you can't tell it better, then look back on what you DID do, when you couldn't done NOTHING and just gave up. And be proud of the effort you put into it.
Within the last year, two books (one on Japanese animation, and one on animals in animation) were published that seemed to cover exactly the same issues as my dissertation. But, having read them, I discovered that they in no way 'got there first' -- inevitably, there was some overlap, but this made me realize where my ideas are original and where they are not. The point is that you should use this as an opportunity to revisit your ideas and see them in a new way, rather become overwhelemed or exasperated. The people on FA love you and believe there's ingenuity and insight in your ideas, and even though we're a bunch of fools and faggots you'll have to take us at our word.
As for artistic skill, I can't offer any advice. I'll only point you towards someone who already covered the issue with a certain amount of sophistication: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1338363/. I think he knows what he's talking about.
But you can't let that get you down. You're a great artist in your own way and you have everyone here on FA hanging on a thread for the updates on your TDYK comic. Yes, there will always be someone who is better, but I think that actually means that you should set a goal for yourself, so buck up and keep at it!
I've been drawing seriously (okay, trying) for ten years and all it got me was burned out -- first, all I could draw was porn, then all I could draw was kinky porn. I did get better, I'll admit, but I can't share anything I draw with people I know now, and the best I can do is about on par with other people's 20 minute doodles. Somehow, I don't let it get me down (beyond the obvious burnout, anyway).
http://cl.ly/0f1b12d39675ce22cba6
http://cl.ly/5bbf43544d60e5b296dc
That aside, I like your style a lot better because it's got this strange, almost dreamlike quality that's explicitly you. You've got something manga-ka lack anymore: uniqueness. Because the style's so popular to do, both there and abroad, it all looks the bloody same! What you're up against, at least in my eyes, is "HTTYD: Just another graphic novel".
Still, if you like it you've done them a big favor by posting this -- maybe TOO big. ;p It's like a google-bomb in artist form!
There might be sth better than your art, but it's the style of your artworks that we like, and it's sth different between you and them but i can't tell...
Don't worry about your route of the TDYK series, Hollywood keep the main idea of movies for centries~ XD
And, as a Chinese know..... Korean people COPY! and even worth, they ROB others!
Ahh... i think i figured out why i felt strange in those korean threads... their hiccup is a little bit...shall we say...feminine
? and....i'd rather not say but... they're famous of their feminine yaoi manga....and they seldom draw standard yaoi p0rn fanart.........
sorry4my poor english..
saying Korean people copy and rob is very funny when China is well known for making fake brand-name products and other stuff! ;D
second, some of Chinese do copy other products all around the world...
but they copy our history documents and try to rob our culture....
i'm here to cheer up Lando and i mean no fight, so watch what you say... you're not a victim in any directions....
sorry... where's my manners...
no need to be sorry at all.
but if you're okay,I'd like to continue this via notes?
Can you explain how Koreans copy history documents? I think you're confused.
李白(Li Bai, 701-762AD) is one of the most beloved Tang Dynasty
Korea Prof said that Li Bai is Korean
Korean was appreared in 918 D.C.
Got it? if not, use your google
I'm Korean,living in Korea right now and I've never heard of anyone who think that Li Bai is Korean.
Li Bai is well-known as a great poet of Chinese,to Koreans.
I do get what you mean by now.I remember hearing the news about it..
that professor thing was total nonsense.even Koreans blamed that 'self-claimed professor' for saying such crap that makes no sense.
I'm glad that this ended without any troubles. :)
and in later days,it is said that professor didn't even exist in the first place,
even Koreans don't know who that professor is! Rumors travels fast,eh?
it's too serius....i'd stop talk about this = =b
there is nothing Korea goverment-related for this issue.
there is no reason for us to insist Li Bai is Korean.we do know that he is Chinese and there are hundreads,thousands,millions of evidence that he is.
why would we insist that he is Korean? to make Korea and China's relationship bad? what would that do good for us?
here is what I know:
環球時報(Huánqiú Shíbào,right?).Huánqiú Shíbào was the first to report the news.
an article in Huánqiú Shíbào insisted that professor 'Kim Byeong Duk(or Whatever name he is called in Chinese)' of Korea's Seoul university said 'Li Bai is Korean'.
Chinese got mad,only then Koreans heard about the news.
Confused Koreans went and looked up for that professor,and 'Kim Byeong Duk' didn't even exist in the first place.there were no such professor in Seoul University.
it was all fake.
but yeah,if you don't get what I mean and I don't get yours,this is going nowhere.let's stop this.
---
I'm Sorry,Lando,for arguing in your journal.
Who knows which gov is lying...
We're just civilian...are't we?
nothing else to argue about....done and done...
李白(Li Bai, 701-762AD) is one of the most beloved Tang Dynasty
Korea Prof said that Li Bai is Korean
Korean was appreared in 918 D.C.
Got it? if not, use your google
I've realized that there is always someone who can do something better than me. Even if its an original idea, its probably been thought of, drawn, created, ate, drunk, sold, and bought 1000 times or more, but thats the curse of living in a world of billions. The only way to distinguish yourself is to continue to practice until others realize that your different and unique(in a good way).
I don't mean it in a bad way, it's just funny the emotion that Dragon has brought out in them.
Myself, Dragon makes me happy. When I have sat down to draw a fan art picture, it's always been happy.
And hey, I don't think you should try and make your art look more manga. That would make your art look more mundane. Your style is very unique, and I think you should celebrate it!
Your TDYK comic is every bit as good as the other works on that forum. And your full color picture of Hiccup reading the dragon book to Toothless has got to be the single BEST HTTYD fan art picture I have seen.
I'm always experimenting with my style and the more I do the more I improve 'cuz I always see artists better then me and they drive me to do better.
And Angelicat is fairly right about Disney and anime. I learned this in animation class...and even before...when I was watching a documentary on Disney...don't remember where I saw it though. hmmm.
Anyways, don't feel bad man. Your art is great. So are theirs too.
I hope i explained what I meant to say well. lol;;