because none of the admins communicate, agree, or follow the rules on this site =/

also that image doesn't violate it. Dragoneer said point blank that DIGIMON AND POKEMON DON'T COUNT and neither do feral animals. God.

that image had a human character in it, so I understand the complaint

ahh alright. Still iritates me. They pick and choose what to follow and when and where. That's not a way a site should be run

I agree with you 100%

second

third

fourteenth

fifth-ed

She cropped the original image with the suicune, I think.

Feral animals do not count as long as you can not tell their age or can tell they are an adult. Porn of a duckling is still bannable under the rule as long as it is recognizably a duckling (you can tell by the plumage).

Likewise, porn of larvae is not allowed (larvae are underaged).

Got that straight from Dragoneer.

That's stupid, honestly. Then it's just a 'let's see what we can get away with and call it adult when it's not/this is adult but doesn't look adult' for the people who draw it, and a hard obstacle for people who have characters like that (different markings, different styles definitely play in here. despite being feral, lots of 'feral' fursonas have unusual colorings so you can't tell anyway. and it'd take it out on people like Lando and losthope who draw a more cuter style)

And how do you count 'maturity' of a feral animal? I mean, then we can argue (since it's not 18 years) that anthromorphic animals' ages don't work the same was as humans, too.. So they may be only four or five and can engage in sexual acts. And back to real animals, Kittens and puppies are physically ready for sex about a year, year and a half of age despite their appearance being the same. So to me, the rules need to be more clearly defined than 'it looks like XYZ' and the admins need to learn to OK artists' styles and stop going around each others backs.

Maturity of a feral animal is quite simple, actually:

If you don't call a dog a pup, it's mature.
If you don't call a cat a kitten, it's mature.
If you don't call a platypus a puggle, it's mature.
If it's obviously not a larvae or nymph, it's mature.
If the adult version of the animal has horns and the young ones don't, and yours has horns (smallish to uberlarge), it's mature.

It's all in what the /artist/ says (or in the last cases, the knowledge of biology on the part of the admin).

Plus the admins are /trying/ to avoid anything that could just be the style. If it's a tossup between "Is it a cute style or is it underage?", they side with "Cute style" and leave it alone.

If the artist USES a word that implies underaged (pup, kitten, cub, puggle, kit, fawn, larvae, nymph, junior, boy, girl, kid, etc), then they assume it's underaged.

Also, if the artist has a history of drawing underage things (and lets face it, Lando does), they may assume underage more often when it comes to that artist's works.


Note: The rules on feral animals do not apply to one species of feral animal: Homo sapiens. That's because for Homo sapiens, the legal thing is a lot different, plus there's the fact it's extremely easy to tell a underaged specimen from one of proper age even in a cute style. Even in Chibi, which makes everything look like kids, you can still tell kids and adults apart.

I'm not stupid, I understand what they're doing. But my point STANDS that REAL LIFE ANIMALS (ie ferals as people here call them) can become sexually mature while still physically immature. So. yeah. The point is where are the lines being drawn? The admins can just pick and choose and say something LOOKS questionable and use it as grounds to ban things and say people are trying to avoid rules. WHICH HAS BEEN HAPPENING. In case you haven't noticed.

Also, humans aren't feral. Look at a dictionary, please. And obviously we're not talking about humans for the most part anyway (as it makes up a slim sliver of the art on this site). Furry anthromorphic creatures=/=humans. And let's be honest, they don't exist so there are no 'laws' about them in their world since it isn't real. (yes, laws have been put in place about the porn in certain countries, but since you're going to try and argue semantics and details here...). So I'm sure you're kind of rambling and preaching to the choir since I wasn't even talking about humans, and they aren't feral so I have no idea where you were trying to go with that. (Yes Lando draws them sometimes, but it wasn't what I was getting at, and I'm not sure you even know what you're getting at. I know the rules, I'm merely saying that they're full of holes and chances at manipulation)

It's not about the "can" part, because humans can do it too. It's about "This is our site, our rules go regardless of what you think is fair. We're trying to cover our asses because the Canadians could ask for Extradition and charge us as pedophiles."

And as far as I'm aware, Feral = "a domesticated animal that has gone wild", so yeah I did use it wrong. But you look at most anyone on this site, they use it wrong too. xD

And humans are animals, so they count. No matter how much you shout "NO" or dislike it, you cannot fight the biology of that fact. To argue they don't count is almost bigoted. After all, an animal is an animal, regardless of which ones you may prefer.


As far as holes and manipulation go...well...it's their site. They probably left the holes in place in case of legal pressure. Or didn't realize there were holes, and are now playing ignorance because they don't want to look like it was a rush job.

that just sucks D:
glad it hasnt happened to me... yet x.x

The one for Charliemon He is so mad about that!!!! and plus your art has been up like that for MONTHS!

cant you repost your art tho? i dont understand...

yeah but if the admins delete it they tend to get really pissed if you reupload it. they see that as trying to overstep their authority. which would make sense if they didn't abuse their power =/

but what if they didnt delete it and it was just some kind of glitch? i mean Lando said they didnt get any notification on why it was deleted.

no, she said they didn't notify her

exactly o.o

that means they did it without tellin her. there was no glitch.

*does not need any clarification* i got it o.o

I thought you said that it was just a glitch. nvm then.

that was earlier... someone already replied to me XP

It was probably a different admin. They don't really coordinate with each other at all.

No doubt it was a different admin

But, since it was deleted shortly after the commissioner's version of the pic was deleted as well; It leads me to believe the other admin was aware of Summercat's decision, and decided to ignore it.

The timeline being:

Commissioner uploads his image

It is deleted

He re-uploads the censored version, and I comment on that iamge that Summercat had cleared the original to be uploaded, and wasn't against the rules

My submission then vanishes

If that is the case, whatever happens next will say a lot about the staff as a whole.

FA needs to invest the time to add extra fields to submissions (IE Metadata). One such file should be a simple check block (yes/no) field that if blank or marked no, means an admin has not yet reviewed a submission, a YES would indicate it's ALREADY been reviewed and should be left alone. This could also be done by adding a simple name field, so that when an admin checks out a submission, they add their name to the field, so OTHER admins can contact them if they have a question, before doing crap like this.

Fairly simple to add, doesn't add much overhead on storage or processing, but WILL add to administration time, but will RESOLVE alot of the DUPLICATE time spent on submission review.

FA has a pretty clunky gallery interface and too few and poorly designed image options IMO >_>

ugh, the lines of code I see to do this though, I would not like to spend time on it

On the back end of the database there's not alot of code to implement. This wouldn't be something normal user would view or be able to modify.

Not that I have anything against FA or the way it works... but something to keep in mind.

- The service is free.
- None of the administration are paid.
- It's all done through volunteer work.
- Say, 4 times out of 5, the only reason they are given the position, is because of a friends reference or some other buddy system.

Therefore:
- Do not expect any level of professionalism, or accountability.
- Do not expect any level of customer service, or uniformity in site management.
- Use of this website is not guaranteed in any way, shape, or form, and your entire experience of it can change without notice or explanation.

This is the same for any company or organization which employs these practices.

The fact that a service may be free does not exempt it from criticism in regards to the service provided, or to the behavior of its staff.

Precicely, but this also means that while you can critisize all you like, they are also under no obligation to make any changes.

I don't necessarily agree with this practice, but it's the way it works aparently.

I'm of the mind that if I say I'm going to do something, paid or not, I'm going to do it. If that means administrating a system with a specific set of rules, then I'll do my best to abide by them because I said I would. That's being professional. Far too often people here let their emotional state get in the way.

Spoken like a true gentlemen.

i just dont understand what the newest submission was about that made it bad... i mean i never got to see it...

How unprofessional.

This site isn't what ismean to be or use to be...

I've had images removed without mention before also.

So this is what happened. That's bullshit. I knew this would start happening. There is no objective way of determining age outside of what the artist explicitly states, and there's a big disclaimer on your profile that says "ALL CHARACTERS DEPICTED ARE OVER 18 YEARS OLD." Did somebody forget how to read or something? Since when do they have some almighty ability to determine what age a character is based on absolutely nothing? It's fucking ridiculous and one of the primary reasons that this policy is so stupidly retarded.

Everybody knows what kind of art you make at this point. There shouldn't be any ambiguity here. Worst case scenario you can still put everything on Inkbunny, but this is still one of many examples of how ridiculous the administration on this website is. It doesn't deserve the immense userbase that it caters to every single day... not when shit like this continues to happen while everybody whistles and twiddles their thumbs when any kind of serious security update needs to be done. Still waiting for that massive list of exploits that Eevee pointed out (and even demonstrated, ffs) to be fixed, btw.

Sad to see that they would do such a thing to such a cute picture... Glad you posted it on IB as well. Keep up the awesome and cute work! They will figure out what they are doing eventually... I hope...

Welcome to FA, where standards and security are not known words.

This. Exactly this, thank you

Well that's a shame, Lando.

agreed.

What a shame. Hope you get things worked out.

The administration is direly lacking in any sense of accountability lately ... and that troubles me.

If they feel they need to do something or come to a decision for good or ill, then so be it ... but own up to it and stand beside it. Justify it. Explain it.

Stealth deletions without any communication towards those affected is just completely inappropriate and DAMAGES the already-shaky level of trust between user and admin. They should be taking steps to REPAIR that relationship, not wound it further. =/

I agree, of course

It really just needs to boil down to betetr communication. Both among themselves AND with the users their decisions affect. Summercat's an exemplary member of the administrative team, but for all the good he tries to do, his efforts will amount to nothing if other admins waltz in and undermine his efforts without even so much as a word just to identify themselves and their reasoning. >_<

oh!!! that's super lame!

i used a greasemonkey script to nab all of the filenames from my gallery. i'm going to compare it to my gallery like a year from now to see if anything gets taken down. i've been a little paranoid for awhile that some of my art would swing in the wrong direction of the "cub line" and that they'd take it down without telling me.

You're right, more pictures might be missing from my gallery. I have no way of checking

i used greasemonkey, and this FA gallery conglomerator plugin to download a list of all the submissions in my gallery. if you're worried about this happening again, you might consider doing something like that!

im starting to hate FA more and more each day.

if ink bunny was able to find a way around alert pay so can furaffinity. this rule id doing nothing but Fing with the artists.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: This site is not a place where standards are kept. The lowest bar to be set wouldn't even be able to be reached in terms of competence from the individuals who comprise this site's administration. Were this site to be run in a proper manner, we wouldn't be having these types of problems. Admins are people -from- the damn site with no prior experience aside from "I was a forum admiinistrator once! LOLOLOLOL"


Honestly, the level of professionalism from this site is so little, one could nearly just denote standard human porn sites with better regulation, organization, and proper coding of their sites. What we have here is a half-assed hodgepodge of failed attempts, all swept under a rug that is the site's layout.

But I digress....I've had a lot of issues with how things are run here.

I suppose it was silly of me to expect more

From people who consider the world a place that owes -them- everything? While it may have been silly, it isn't asking for much at all, by normal standards.

I would have to agree with you if they are going to remove an image that they already cleared is completly wrong.

I'm startng to hate FA more and more because they are getting rid of images that shouldn't be;because I thought art sites were about freedom of expression but apparently I'm wrong and I hate it when good art is ripped away for no good reason.

This site is about freedom of expression. You just have to express it in a way they want or else.

But again I fully believe they could have gotten around alert pay, once again ink bunny did it. They could have just required all cub art to be labeled cub and had an option in the user account to block it if you’re not into cub or you live in the UK. So no more of people bitching about oh I didn’t want to see that. And it would have avoided that bitch getting sigmaxs bambi stuff removed.

This rule has done nothing but give other artist here the go ahead to be asses to those who do cub art, I was surprised how many journals showed up in my watch list they were along the lines of “finally” “sick freaks” “ect ect

Yeah that is the part I hate about this site they limit your creative freedom.

That is my thoughts too I mean inkbunny has gotten around that so why can't FA.I guess they just don't want to spend the time to do that,but I'm glad I've got an inkbunny account so I can see the real art not the edited version.

Yeah I know what you mean,but if people don't like cub art that is fine.I just think it is a waste of their time to hate on things they don't like when they could spend that time looking at art they liked instead of hating on cub artist and lovers.

You sound visibly upset (and rightfully so)

They should have noted you, but didn't the cub aup update say that over time they're going to delete such works? I guess they may consider that enough of a notice.

Why would I have any indication that it should be deleted, if an admin has already personally approved it?

idk. The mods here are pretty retarded sometimes. I wasn't trying to sound like i was against you btw! Please don't think that :c
it's just maybe a reason some older stuff went missing?

Question Time: Does this surprise you?

And they said I was being 'paranoid' when I said the new rules would hurt the site and tick off the userbase.

I can't remember which admin it was that said 'If we lose a few cubfurs, tough'.

ahhhhh summercat one of my least favorite admins

Wasnt there a big migration to inkbunny and some people just quit here period? Because fursecution attacked the cubfurs or something.
What happened to that :D?

Maybe? I don't know. I don't keep up with what you guys do

WOAH WOAH WOAH who are you pairing me up with when you say "you" >:[

yes, that did happen...about half of those folks came back after learning they have to constantly tag correctly on their stuff due to Inkbunny having a blacklisting feature.

That feature is in place to negate the merit of the reasonable argument behind most people who complained about cub porn, with proper tagging (which also makes for a much more accurate and efficient search system) people who don't want to see any particular fetish displayed in their submissions and front page don't have to. It certainly hasn't scared anyone away from using the site, and in fact has kept a number of otherwise naysayers from leaving due what they might view as offensive materials if it remained to the tagging system FA implements :3

they allow within rules, I was asked to assist on making the new version of the SL rules. all is allowed now is Builders, Reskinners and modders showing off their work they did. We still dont allow random screenshots.

While it's possible, perhaps probable, that the other admin knew of summercat's decision and ignored it, it's also possible they didn't. And I doubt the mods message each other with every single decision they make.
Granted, they should have a better ring of communication regardless.

I am looking into this. You should have been sent a notification on the image being removed.

I really need to keep logs of conversations, because I thought I indicated (with horribly rhyme) that the submission that was removed by the other admin was 'iffy', at best. If I failed to follow through on that later on in the conversation, that would have been my fault, however.

The 'edited' version posted is totally acceptable within the rules, removing what made the earlier unedited version 'iffy', which was the apparent erection.

Please remember my final comment from the conversation, though.

I have, and I can take out whatever you see fit, I'd just rather they not disappear without any notification

Thank you for being willing to work with me on this matter, then. I'll put a note into the admin channel that I'll be reviewing your scraps and gallery (doublechecking again), and hopefully will have a list of submissions for you by tomorrow night, if not tonight/this morning.

Whoa, I still have the deleted submission open in another tab.

It was probably another administrator.

The entire issue here is that some admins ban anything that looks young. Others seek confirmation and to clarify and check the rules. That was an issue since /before/ the ban on underage characters.

It wouldn't matter if one admin says "I say it's ok." unless the other admin is a higher rank.

if FA runs like must large sites it contains a memori bank where all the info from all the submissions that only athoruized perzonal can acsouce and delet all info of that existed they can do the same