I noticed this too, at MFF 2010. At past MFFs, the dealers were treated with respect, and the den was run well, but in 2010, it seemed all that went out the window.

First, whoever's idea it was to have the dealer's den on an unmarked floor with no elevator access, it was a terrible one. Even on the last day of the con, I had people coming and saying, "Oh, I didn't even know you guys were down here," and "This is a bad place for the den to be, why isn't it upstairs in the main area?" or "Woah, there's a second dealer's den?"

Yes, people honestly DID think Artist Alley was the dealer's den, and thanks to absolutely zero signage, the convention staff apparently liked it that way. As a paying dealer, I do expect a few things. First, that I'll be treated at least decently for my expense and effort to come out to a con by being rewarded with the better location than those who did not pay to have a table. Dealers are like sales anchors, artist alley is more of a last-minute thing, and most cons respect this. Apparently not MFF.

I did about half the business I did the year before at MFF, and after talking to many other dealers, it appeared to be the same story with them, while those in artist alley did awesome. Coincidence? I don't think so.

If the dealers are going to be so blatantly worked against in 2011, I will not be back to MFF. I love Chicago, I love the people and the pizza, but I do not like being treated as second-class when I paid for first. Put artist alley in the basement, but the dealers in real con-space. Seriously, this should have been a no-brainer.

I would highly recommend Anthrocon.If youre thinking about being a dealer though you better hurry up on getting in.They do sell out.But they do a good job at laying out the dealers room and its in a very clear easy to find place in the convention center.The artist alley is off to the side in the same room near the art show.

Yep I already registered and got my Dealers Den table for Antro con. Ill be there this year. Im actually dropping MFF this year as several other artists who also had attended regularly. I think if dealers boycott the con for a year or so maybe them maybe MFF will finally address our concerns and reconsider their position. I really did like this con and I think the dealers den staff is great but what happened this year was just a slap in the face to paying dealer. So.. for those of you who also had a bad experience you can use your MFF time slot to try out another con that you may have always wanted to attend. Thats what I'm doing, Im not going to risk ending up in the red again this year. Ill come back once I hear things got better and once i know things are fixed and sales are back, maybe, unless I like Antho con better, then in that case I'm dropping MFF from my annual con list

I think you`ll like Anthrocon.In my opinion its the best run con.Its also in my fave city and the only fur con in a real convention center not stuck in some hotel ballroom.So its very well ventilated and spaced out. Granted its nowhere as big as say SanDiego comic con`s convention center but then the attendance of anthrocon is less then 5% of comic con .I`ll have to show you around some if youre interested since I`m from Pittsburgh.

Sure that would be awesome.

They also put it directly next to the art show, directly next to registration. When I asked the staff where the dealer's den was when I arrived, even they didn't know. The art show wasn't just big...it was as big as the dealer's room. There was no reason that the dealer's room couldn't have been there, even if that meant sacrificing a table or two.

All I can say is that even with the cost of the flight being pocket change (Houston and Chicago being continental hubs), I won't bother going unless I have clear confirmation that the situation will be resolved and then some. I made three times the amount at FC, and they're about the same size. Its not like what they did was out of ignorance. How do you put all the art stuff in one place, except for the dealers den, and RIGHT next to registration, without realizing you've fucked up?

In fact, I think they owe returning dealers a significant discount for such a blatant idiot moment.

Oh I agree with you 200%. I'm not going back until I hear things are fixed I'm not risking another bad con because they can't keep the den and artist alley separate.... Just think we are the saps who PAID for tables and they got free tables in a central prime location. There is no reason we couldn't have been in the room the Artemis was in I agree. So honestly why should a dealer bother paying for a dealers table when you can get it for free. I'd glady breakdown every day and with that many tables available id gladly chance getting one in a lottery. The odds are great.

Anyhow, I agree with your point and people need to speak up and respectfully ask for what 's fair. We paying for a spot, so give us the better location seriously is that so unreasonable? if MFF wants us back they need to comp 2010 dealers for their tables because that con for me was the worst dealing con in 2010 I made made way more at oklacon with an attendance of about 300. Anon less than 1/3 of what i made at FC. I barely covered my expenses to go there so it's not worth going back for me.

Seriously Who ever decided to make artist alley that big and put the paying vendors in the basement while the free tables got prime spot needs to be fired. That's no way to treat your paying vendors. So, Because they have chosen to ignore my emails about this ( both the con chair and the dealers den staff) I for one am boycotting MFF in 2011 and also for the forseeable future and I'm encouraging other dealers who had a similar experience to do the same I am trying another con in 2011 to replace MFF and until they acknowledge this issue and make some recompense I wouldn't be back. It's bad enough to get a terrible location but to ignore your customers who have valid concurs is just unconscionable. No disrespect meant MFF but you guys really screwed your loyal paying dealers. You wouldnt see me or several others in 2011. So maybe now you can fill those vacancies with some of the Artist alley artist who can now get paid dealers tabels that way it can free up some more free artist alley space for us dealers. ...... See that doesn't make sense to me either... and that's my point.

I'll shoot them an email too, and hopefully anyone else who thinks that it was beyond incompetence will do the same.

Even if the space for the artist alley would not have worked, there were many other rooms that I saw evengs occurring in that easily would have fit it and are also trafficked well.

Yep I whole heartedly agree. I plan on showing this thread to MFF so if you know other artist or attendees who had the same feelings please direct them here. Honestly im upset because I really liked MFF it was a fun profitable con, I just feel like the cluster F**K in handling this has ruined a good con for me. It doesn't make me want to return, not just so I can barely break even. Not fun.

For the record, I do like the hotel and understand a new hotel can take some adjusting to. I just refuse to believe that this severe layout issue could have been overlooked and unnoticed. I'll certainly point out the journal to those I've spoken to.

I agree. Yeah I'm also letting other artist know about this post.

Out of curiosity, I though this over, and took a look at the original floor map in the MFF 2010 con book.

First of all, I can say as 'an attendee', I didn't really have a problem distinguishing between the Dealer's Den and Artists Alley. But then, I admit I may have a subtle advantage in that I tend to know who is going to be a dealer year to year, so when I see tables with certain layouts and complexity, I can say 'Right, dealer's room'.

I do remember that Artist's Alley was in prime real estate. It was in plain sight from registration, and if you went down the hallway where it was, there were one of two directions to go. Artist's Alley, or the art show.

I didn't have this problem with confusion, but I can imagine that someone who goes down looking for the art show and doesn't know about conventions might think so if there aren't enough signs or signs in the right place.

There might be logistical reasons why they didn't have the Dealer's Room in that upstairs location, like lack of power, space, or whatnot. That might be something to follow up on.

I do think that signage was not ideal. That definitely could be better for 2012 if they keep things in the same rooms. Artist's Alley was also open a later than the Den. There are practical reasons for that, but it brings up the idea in my head about whether the Den wants later hours here and there. Good questions!

Yeah that was the other thing they get better location better hours and they didn't have to pay a dime to get this .. Does anyone else see a problem with that? Lol. I dont think Logistics was a problem they could have easily put the den where the Artist alley was and art show where the artist alley was and artist alley where the dealers den was.. Not rocket science. However I do acknowledge you point.

I think the fact they ignored our concerns was more upsetting. It's as if they refuse to see the problem or think there is no problem. It's just obserd how they laid out the con. No one bothered to say... "Hmm maybe we should put the dealers den in a central area" Instead they opted to centralize artist alley while the people who paid for spots got 2nd place to the free tables. It just makes no logical business sense if you are a reasonable thinking person.

I'm glad you can see it I only wish MFF sees it before it costs them more dealers. I dont think they have a clue how many dealers they actually upset here. I suppose they will find out in November. I personally know about 10 dealers who wouldnt be returning and opted for another con in 2011 (like anthro con, dealers table reg is open new by the way )

Yeah I am just going to chime in here - I agree with just about everything Balto said.

I myself had a hard time finding the dealer's room initially to set up. It is very bad planning to have the dealer's room separate from the main con space.

I do support the alley - it's great experience and a good choice for those who only want to sell for a day, but considering the price the dealer's pay for space, they should be showcased. Artist's Alley seems to get better treatment for free.

Granted, I am a dealer and I view the con differently than others. However, a very large SIGN would be nice. <=) It wouldn't be too hard to get a big arrow set up next to the downstairs escalator showing the way to the den.

Yeah good point some people needed to carry things down the escalators. Some like myself almost killed myself going down the escalators withmy rolling bags. Did they no think their dealers need access to transport items an elevator would have been nice and if there was one they certainly didnt bother to let the dealers know. Good point. Yet another obvious concern overlooked.

this was my worst MFF in 5 years, and i completely blame the location.

Yeah the location sucked. They gave the free tables the best spot... That's fair right? Don't get me wrong I'm all for artist alley but common scenes would tell you to give the people paying to be dealers at the con the best spot to do business. Not the people who didnt pay for being a dealer.

i totally agree!

i hope something is done about this, i would hate to stop attending MFF...

yeah I raised the issue to the MFF dealers den staff and the con chair.. they didn't seem concerned about it. I personally an going to replace antho con with another con this year and not attend until I know this problem is fixed other wise 2011 will just be a repeat of 2010 and Id rather not have another bad con. Ill use my time to attend a con I know I can do good business at. I personally am Boycotting MFF for 2011. Something needs to be done.

At MFF I ended up In the dealersden and the Artists alley. But I was pressing for cash this convention and the artists alley had a lot of cheap commissioners and quite frankly instead of the booth setup the open table setup feels the best to me. Also i love ya Balto always a pleasure seeing you around =) and I just uploaded the badge I commissioned from you at FC2011 thank you doing such a good job =)

please comment if you can:
http://forum.furfest.org/index.php?topic=26.0

Yep I just posted. They really ruined a good dealing con for me.. I am trying AC this year and If i do well there (and I think I will) I probably wouldn't be back to MFF. I know about 9 different dealer who are boycotting MFF this year because of this,

My two cents,

Look around you. NO ONE is spending a lot of money lately. A problem I've noticed with a lot of dealers tables lately is not only the quality of the product available but the prices charged. When i walk through a Dealers room and see $150 "collections" offered, and $35 DVD sets of "furry" items that are on sale for $10 at Amazon I shrug my shoulders and move on.

If your product didn't sell. find something that does and offer some type of value to the buyer. I did walk through the Dealers den all three days and frankly didn't see all that much that interested me anymore. On many of the dealers tables I saw the same product over and over and over again with about the same high price tags while artists in the Alley were offering the same product at lower prices.
(and before the argument begins that they can offer it it lower prices because they are not a business I understand that completely.)

After reading the thread on the MFF forums and then the comments here what I, (as an outside listener and not in the "furry business") hear is the case of someone screaming "sour grapes" because this event did not reach the expectations of the table owner. So the excuse of "bad location" just doesn't wash with me. In fact, what this sounds like is whining that you didn't git first crack at what money there was to be spent so you're not coming back.

People simply didn't have the money to spend, and when they did they were looking for value. The Dealers Den this year didn't offer it. I just got back from another convention in Michigan less then 2 days ago and heard the same complaints there. Slow sales, and people looking but not buying. Same 3 comic book dealers. A few "Name" artists who did alright for themselves and some confused dealers wondering why the 35 tails on the back wall weren't selling.

I applaud you for attending and putting toward the effort it takes to run a successful business. I understand the amount of time it takes to draw a commission. If you chose to offer the same product as your competitors then you must have something other then just the sale to lead people into your product. The artists in Artist's Alley do it by price. You can do it by quality, product, or any other means but you have to offer something different. Any yes, your art, talent, and time is different then everyone else. But when it comes down to it I see far too many "Dealers" wanting to charge Rog Minataur or Usurla Vernon prices for art that, while very nice and respectable, doesn't have the "Named Artist" name attached to it. Art is very subjective. most of us can't tell you why we like a certain artist or style so we buy what we like. The advantage the "Name " artists have is bragging rights. Namely, "oh, like my badge? Usurla drew it for me and it took damn near a year to get it 'cause she was so backed up."

Sell something, new, different, or cheap, and it will get our attention.

I do agree 100% with you on the fact that a lot of artist have raised their prices to ridiculous levels but you a also have to understand some of the prices are raised to control the volume of commissions receives. No one wants to work 2 hours for $5 bucks not when you have over head and travel expenses. Most artist you see with higher prices have their prices higher due to demand, plain and simple. It some times comes down to the artist just not having the time to draw 100 badges at $20 when you can easily get 60 badges for $35 each. While I know this sometimes upsets the fans they need to see it from the artist point of view. Its simple supply and demand. I also agree that product is an issue but you also have to understand that an artist isn't go to spend $2000 on volume 4 of a comic book to sell for $2 and then take 4 years to see a return on your investment thats why prices are set higher. You see the same product over and over because the artist may simply still be trying to re-coop their investment before ramping up a new item.

As for artist alley the simple matter of fact with that issue is not sour grapes its simple bad business and disrespect to vendors by the convention. Its simply unbelievable that the con would charge dealers for a space at MFF to sell art then turn around and give free tables to arts so they can directly compete against their vendors. Sure their stuff is cheaper because they don't have the expenses and over head dealers had to pay to get a table. On top of that to add insult to injury they put the paying dealer (The ones who paid for the right to sell there) in the basement with no signage. Say what you want about people complaining but I don't think any reasonable person would think that was fair. Would you think it fair that you pay for a super sponsor admission and super sponsor dinner and event then when arrived at the con everyone at the con received the same perks and swag you paid extra for? No I don't think you would think thats fair. Thats basically what happened to us in the dealers den.

While I do agree with your points on the prices and product, I disagree with your point on the dealers den vs artist alley. Artist alley should never be in direct competition with the dealers den thats simply bad for business. The reason I personally am not attending is because I want to go where I can get the business I paid to receive. If thats too much to expect then I suppose I am wrong. Also, I think you need to understand the business side of things and not so much from the fan side, Yes I agree there are a ton of artist who charge more than they should for things, while it may be wrong to some they do it because furries will pay it. I agree the solution i those cases is to just not buy their product. I hope understand that not all of us gouge and over charge the fans I for one am opposed to charging more than a reasonable amount for a badge. I have not changed my prices in several years because frankly I don't do this for the money my day job pays me very well, I do this for fun, but there are dealer out there who do this for a living and when the con doesn't give them what they paid for (Prime location) then you have to understand why they are upset when they had to play 2nd fiddle to the people who got the same perks as the people who paid for those perks. The other issues you need to understand is that there are way to many furries who want something for nothing those are the ones who Artist alley was created for. Im sorry if some one thinks $20-25 is too much for a badge then I don't know what to tell you. Yes quality needs to get better, on that I 100% agree with you.

I hope you will not feel I am disagreeing with you, because I do understand your point of view and you do raise some very valid concerns, I only ask that you not view all of us through the spectrum of the wrongs committed by other dealers. Raise the bar demand more from your dealers and boycott those who refuse to see reason just understand that there are some of us out there that do our best to try and be fair with our prices and some times we don't realize our prices are too high. Maybe try suggesting repricing to some of the dealer I know personally I have evaluated my prices but the bottom line for a dealer is this.. if they can meet their expenses and make a profit with their current price and have enough work to keep them busy the entire cone I can assure you their prices will not change. This was not the case in MFF 2010 it clearly the location.. I don't think its a coincidence that multiple dealers had the exact same complaint. While your points remain valid that was clearly not why our sales were down.

Thanks for your feed back I do appreciate it and I personally have taken your concerns to heart and I hope I have not contributed to your feeling of disappointment with dealers, if I have a can assure you I am always striving to get better, we all are.