Do post a link to these artistbewares in a journal would you? Would like to avoid! Thanks!

I haven't gotten around to actually posting on the site yet. I have it bookmarked and I have my information on hand, I just need to actually make the post. I will not however, link to it here. The existing journals on artists I have will stay, but I'll likely from this time forward simply refer to the artist beware site as it is MUCH better and more user friendly than it was a few years back. The posts will happen though.

Hell hath no fury like Ssvanti scorned.

Seconded. I always get the feeling I'm way too lenient with people sometimes, especially compared to this.

Word.

Have you thought about doing the, pay half now and the other half when it's finished?

That's included under prepay. IE money is given up front, in any amount, prior to work starting.

I'm skeptical about that. In my eyes, it's pay some now, the rest after it's done. Because I've heard of most Artists screwing the one who is paying, over.

Wow i thought u have never had any problem with the commisions

I tend to NOT air the laundry, this issue in particular has gone on too long and too often.

guess you are in right to be in rage mode, good luck with your needs

Many of the artists on this site are worth venturing with. Of all my transactions I only have 27 problem children todate. It's the problem children that are killing me right now.

Key points to avoid:
Anyone begging for help, with bills, pets, food, etc. If you want to help out, give a donation, do NOT commission
Anyone with more than 5 people already in a queue - check out their completion record first also
People who do art for paysites, if they have that as a job, you WILL be on the backburner or you will likely be rushed.

I have more to list but that's a general rule :D

Well damn. But you do have a point.

I know this all too well, after commissioning an fursuit maker at AC '11. Have not seen any effort made to work on my project. x.x I've pretty much written it off now. Sad I paid up front in full too.

I totally feel you!!! I keep a list on my FA Page of ones that fall into the never commission category I have encountered.

I feel where you're coming from, but... don't commissioners have the same problem? I know you yourself are going to be a respectable customer and you're known, but... if this was anyone else, I think it'd result in you not wanted to prepay and them not wanting to work without your money, aka no deal.

Not that I don't feel you.

I'm having trouble reading your comment. If I have the gist of it right, I don't really care. I personally, am done "loaning" my money out to artists who can't be responsible or dedicated enough to finish their projects.

Most of the artists that require a pre-payment, regardless of if it is full or partial up front, are actually the ones most likely to run off with your money. The ones who take payments at different stages of completed work, or when it's done, are the least likely to screw you over.

When an artist tells me it shouldn't take too long to complete a commission, then turns around and does image packs, takes additional commissions after mine and pumps those out completed, does Collaboration with other artists, consistantly opens livestreams (additional commissions) and hasn't even bothered with my fully prepaid commission of more than $500?!??!!??!! FUCK THAT NOISE!

Come to think of it, with every commission I've gotten, the artist has requested some form of payment half-way through the process. I guess I figured I'd been paying people up front with good luck, but really it's been during the actual art process.

STATEMENT RESCINDED.

$500
Ouch. For that price, I'd expect the Queen to deliver a physical copy in person.
That really does suck ass.

Hear hear.

OH MAN!!!
I know how you feel. I can't say who I commissioned, other than he's a huskey, but I paid him in late June, it's over 5 months now and he still hasn't done more than the sketches. Price I paid? $212. He'd said on MULTIPLE times that he'd stream it, get to work on it, whatever.

But then, just last a little before last month, he takes on MORE commissions and spits them out one after the other. He's been going through some life problems, but still FIVE months and no more than the sketches are done? Really? ><

Some people just don't know the value of money. Or should I say they have no responsibility at all.

I never reached a hundred spent on commissions and I already felt the bad taste of commissioning certain artists here. What people need to know is that commission, being furry art or not, is still a SERVICE and if the artists have their terms of service, then the customers have their RIGHTS as well. Now, it doesn't matter on what people spend their money. Each one has their own tastes.

I don't know the problems between Ssvanti and artists (and sincerely, I'm not even interested in this kind of stuff), but there's nothing to justify someone taking money and NOT providing the owed service. But now, if he's lying about being scammed and he's actually getting the refunds, then I may agree with you. Well, if that's the case then this journal have no point at all.

well thats what happens when an artist thinks it alright for them to "forget" a commission or two now an again to pocket cash an dont do any work

The furdom does things a bit backwards. In the real world, payment in full before a product is presented isn't common. It usually goes by milestones.

I'm half-way on the other side of things, part of a two man team to deal with commissions, I'm myself getting pretty fed up with the artist I'm working with. I'm likely to not deal with him anymore. Totally understand your frustration.

This has always been an issue with me, but I can't bring it upon myself to enforce it on every single artist I commission. Some are just too nice. Most I try to set up a half-and-half deal so they have at least some motivation, but my favorite artists have always been those that ask for payment afterwards and not until then.

I've had the same problem and have been considering doing the same thing.

I've been going by the policy that I'll refuse any form of payment unless I can work on the project immedtiatley or atleast within the very near future.

Artists need to treat comissions similar to that of a restaurant. Customers pay after they have been satisfied with what they asked for, and pay once it's done.

If someone is pre-paying and it's not done in a timely fassion, it should be refunded immediatley, with compensation ontop. You've wasted that persons time.

I've only gone to people who I know and trust to get the job done, or people who have an outstanding reputation that can be crashed and burned if they mess around like that.
In only one case, it was someone who made the picture before putting it up for sale.

My parents got hit by a similar trick ages back, ordered a large metal garden thingy. Took them over 3 years to get their money back, and still didn't receive what they ordered.

Well shit, I'd expect that if someone relatively well-known in the furry community paid me for a commission that I'd do it just because they thought I was worth the money.

It'd be like some random pizza-hut worker being a complete douchebag to a music star or celebrity when they walk in and ask for food.

a mutually agreeable solution for this, and some other problems, is in the works. :)

The good thing is, you're a reasonably well-known commissioner- people will likely be fine with you paying after the work is finished.

Considering the fact that you have commissioned an astonishingly large variety of artists it's no surprise you've gotten to a point that the ones who show very poor business practices have finally broke the straw on your iksars back. It's unfortunate the amount of people who show very little common sense in their commission handling processes.

However given your account credentials I don't think you'd have TOO much difficulty finding artists who'd agree to work with you on a relative honor system.

And this is why I only commission people at Cons because I get it the next day =P.

Most of my CON commissions have been take homes, for whatever reasons, including not getting booked till last day or because the artist just didn't get it finished by end of CON. So for me, it winds up being pay higher prices for less work, they still take it home and I still wait ;p

Mmhmm. true that.

same happend to me manny times. i also prefer to pay when the commission is finishd.

I honestly am moving toward streaming commissions altogether, the artist is paid then and the art is received then. No waiting on either side.

Smart

It's happened to me as well.

Truth be told, I agree with his point.

Problem is, there's no actual way to enforce a secure transaction without a contract. And in the furry world, there's just not many out there that are capable of getting a contract signed, much less getting it notarized in order to ensure it's legal and binding.

Artists who draw art on here should NEVER try to use it as a method to live off of. The money may be nice, but as much money as they might get? It's all dependent upon how much porn they'll draw, as well as how popular they are. And as we all know: Popularity never lasts.

If they really want to make a lifestyle out of drawing, then they need to take a good hard look at the furry fandom, take three steps back, get themselves that eighty thousand dollar (or more!) slip of paper that says they've taken courses in the required fields, and become a graphic designer, architect, or something that's productive within the society.

The cynicism within the artists circles is often one that seems to lean towards self-entitlement as much as it does in the circles of commissioners who pay them. Both believe that they deserve the right to get what they want, and both are (In a general sense) unwilling to compromise themselves too much to assist the other. This only is exacerbated when an artist gets burned in commissions consistently, or when the commissioner gets burned by lackluster individuals of ill-repute.

I've got an artist whom I encountered at a convention. I paid thirty dollars for a badge, and they had me fill out an entire form of name, address, and phone number in which to make sure the product was delivered. This was last year at MFM/MFF (Can't remember which.)

To my disdain and annoyance, even after all that paperwork was filled out, and the money was given? I've not heard anything from them since. No badge, no refund, nothing. And all the while I'm sitting there thinking "Damn, I was a complete idiot for that".

Not because I trusted an artist with a organized system; But because I as the commissioner didn't take the time to take stock of the artist's name, FA page, or the like. Thus I'm screwed because of my -own- shortcomings.

So truth be told? There's a basis for how he acts being entirely reasonable.
There's also a reasonable reason why artists on FA here prefer being paid up front.
But it's the middle ground in which those of little moral fortitude and lackluster dedication on both sides cause this to happen.

So yes: I support this person's view on this case.
But each issue should truly be viewed on a case by case basis!

To allow general assumptions to take the place of facts about the situation only allows this issue to cause further problems down the line.

For those wondering, the hidden comments were by a troll making accusations, personal attacks and harassing other commentators. If you disagree with my stance, I don't mind. You are free to discuss. When this turns into harassment and attacks I will step in.

I asked a friend I should bother replying and they told me no, they also told me they never really agreed with anything the troll ever had to say. So I hid the comments. I did save the comments prior to hiding so if an admin requests the information I'll provide it, otherwise the saved page is just sitting in my drama folder so I can look back at it in a few years and have a laugh.

It's funny how the troll objects to be called a troll for disagreeing with others... and then turns around and calls someone else a troll... for disagreeing with them...

Hypocrite much? ROFL.

Paypal fees? I'm not sure what you're using but if you send it as "shared expenses", paypal charges me $1 for $100. o_O

$1 isn't that steep, imo.

Steep isn't the issue, the issue is ethics of the artist taking money, agreeing to do work, then not covering the costs associated with refunding so double whammy.

Which is $1. o_O

I'm really glad you are hung up on this simple dollar theory here. I wish it were just a lousy simple dollar, unfortunately it's not. There's actually quite a bit more to it than "oh look he's bitching about a dollar."

I'm not bitching about a dollar. I'm bitching about a person I trusted to give money too for a service, failed to even bother start the service, took the money used it as they pleased, then when they decided they didn't need that cash anymore they refunded me with no work, and then made me incur a fuckton more than a "$1.00" fee because of the way they sent the money back. Lets not consider the money was locked up on that artist, and unavailable to use with another, or that the artist cost me opportunity of interest, had I decided to invest that money into a 401k, a TSP, a savings account, or a CD, etc. I've done this before, if I don't have a project to hire, I instead put my budget for that month into some kind of investment rather than just "Blow" it. Lets consider that these people are taking people's money and holding onto it for more than 6 months, more than 12 months, I still have one over 24months.

So I'm pissed about being lied too, used, uncured costs even further, dragged around for a lengthy period of time, by MULTIPLE people. If it'd just been one, I sures shit wouldn't press this issue.

Some people need to really clean up their act, and get their professional hat on when making business transactions with money up front. In fact the only real issues I seem to have are with artists who require money up front, all the others seem to transact just perfectly fine for both sides.

There's someone we both met at TFF that I've paid $110 to so far for work, and I've not seen a badge that I paid $40 cash for at TFF, nor a reference pic. And they're doing other jobs... so what you're talking about is EXACTLY this sort of thing... so I'm sort of grinding my teeth here...

Ouch.

Well, I posted the badge art. Badge itself still not delivered yet.