If you're just playing flash games, the graphics card doesn't matter; it's going to affect your video watching more than game playing. You probably want to just go for a standard speed multi-core processor and lots of RAM.

Oh, oops. Steam games. xD Missed that part. It depends on the games you're talking about, in that case, but generally that's the only use for which you'd really need a good graphics card.

The command and conquer games occasionally, maybe the torchlight games [though I'm hoping they port the second to 360.] But the gaming would be rare as I hate mouse+keyboard gaming as I never have a comfortable setup so it just hurts too much too soon, much prefer controllers [so maybe play older generation roms :3.]

My priorities are videos [mostly using zoom player or flash based streaming,] flash facebook games like Avengers alliance, Paint tool Sai [and I want to get into streaming the art.]

Would you mind looking at these for me and telling me if they are any good [setting a limit of £350.]

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/adven.....53719-pdt.html
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/adven.....53696-pdt.html

[Downside being no HDMI so not able to get the best from my TV/Monitor, but someday could always get a cheapish graphics card for that? Or would effectively having two sources for graphics processing conflict?]

Oh, sure!

Well, C&C and Torchlight are pretty light-resource games, so your graphics card is pretty much not an issue as long as you get something standard. The onboard cards on these computers will probably be okay for the most part. If you do need to upgrade your card, it would not create a conflict. You simply need to tell the computer which card to use.

So between all these specs, it's sounding like the big things you want to look for are processing power, RAM, and a proper hookup for your display/TV/monitor. However, not having HDMI isn't too big of a deal. Most computers use DVI hookups, which are actually the same pin configuration as HDMI, so if you don't have DVI, a $5 converter is all you need, usually. The big thing is that DVI only supports RGB color, but HDMI also supports YCbCr color. An actual TV is likely to use YCbCr color, a display meant to be a computer monitor will support RGB primarily. Also, to keep in mind with the converter, is that HDMI carries an audio signal whereas DVI does not, so without an HDMI graphics card, you'd have to get externals speakers (though this can just be a pair of headphones).


Okay, so these two computer builds. The first one isn't bad; the graphics card is pretty much the cheapest you can get though, since it has no onboard memory, but instead shares it with the system's memory. That means you might have a problem even just drawing, and Torchlight would definitely be an issue. Otherwise the processor is decent, it's dual-core even though it doesn't mention it. Decent amount of RAM, the hard drive is a bit small for my tastes, but then again I have a lot of crap. xD

The second one does not specify a graphics card at all (well, there's a section for it, but it's clearly mislabeled since they're talking about the RAM), so I'm guessing it doesn't come with one. You'd have to buy your own. The processor is a more powerful dual-core, but the memory you'd definitely want to expand. 4GB is just not enough for a 64-bit system.


Personally, I would keep shopping. To be honest, you get the best deal if you can buy all the parts individually and assemble the computer yourself, but that takes a certain level of know-how. Some questions I'd want to know the answer to if I were buying are first about your monitor. Is it an HDTV? Or is it a monitor meant for a computer? Also, what outputs does it have? You mentioned HDMI; do you know if it has DVI as well? And secondly, do you multitask on your computer a lot?

(I'll note you my AIM in case you'd like to talk more!)

I've built a PC before, frankly it was a massive headache and now I have no-one to help me in person should I get stuck. I'd be happy to keep looking for other pre-built ones but just don't know what I'm looking for XD

This is my TV/monitor http://tinyurl.com/cnph9zt

I do a hell of a lot of multitasking XD Though this would drop me down to only having one screen so I don't know how much I'd do then :P [At the least there would be multiple IM programmes and browsers (each with MANY tabs) open at all times, then you will have me either watching videos, gaming or doing art on top of that.]

Haha, I do that too. xD I've got like... over 100 tabs open at pretty much all times. <.<;;

So in that case, I'd advise that if possible, you get a quad-core processor (provided you're also getting a 64-bit operating system; it won't do as much good with a 32-bit OS).

If you multitask a lot, you'll also want a lot of RAM, but it's pretty cheap to upgrade. The main thing to keep in mind before upgrading is to know the model number of your motherboard and check the RAM manufacturer's site to make sure it's been tested with your motherboard. It's kind of a chore, but I recently had to deal with a RAM/mobo incompatibility, and it is a huge pain. Random freezes, BSODs, etc.

Your monitor has a DVI input, so don't sweat the quality and don't worry about getting a vid card with HDMI. Some people will argue that HDMI is better than DVI, but when it comes down to it, it's the exact same signal. The big thing is to make sure to get a video card with its own memory; that's all. You may have to buy a video card seperately for this, but there are plenty of budget cards that will be just fine. If it does come to that, I'd recommend nVidia over ATI, but you'll find people who swear by each brand.


So here's what I'd look for:
-At least a dual-core processor, preferably a quad-core with about 2.5GHz at least for an AMD processor, and about 3Ghz at least for an Intel (their clock speeds have different performance outputs, which is why you'll see Intel processors at much higher rates than AMD).

-You'll probably want at least 8GB of ram, but if it ships with only 4GB, it's not too big a deal, just make sure you know how much RAM the motherboard supports (It's quite rare to see one that doesn't support at least 8GB, I usually see at least 16GB), and keep in mind the cost of purchasing more.

-Windows 7 64-bit (As unclean as it makes me feel to recommend it, it's not as bad as Vista, and they kinda have a monopoly on the OS market, especially for the less tech-savvy).

-A video card that does not use shared memory, preferably one that has at least 256MB onboard, which isn't unusual. If it doesn't say how much memory is onboard it probably uses shared memory. Either DVI or HDMI input is just fine, but in the off-chance you find a card that doesn't support either, don't bother, it's not worth it.


Aside from those, the other details don't matter too much for what you're using it for!

Looks like the cheapest pc world has with dedicated graphics is http://tinyurl.com/cxtrbvn thought it's confusing to me how it's dedicated when according to this http://tinyurl.com/cu6mmub it's graphics come from a gpu that's built into the processor...

I don't understand how that is any different to how this pc works http://tinyurl.com/c8pgkmu according to this info on it's cpu's graphics abilities http://ark.intel.com/compare/53483,.....17,53426,29760 [should be the centre info. left being the processor for the first PC I lined to you, middle being the second, right being the one my laptop is running now.]

That's the thing, there has to be a graphics card, and that's going to be its only job, so in that sense they're all "dedicated." The main difference in quality is if it has its own onboard RAM or not, which none of those PCs on the comparison link have.

The graphics card is built into the motherboard, not into the processor. The ATI graphics card on that compy uses memory from your RAM sticks, which aside from dividing the RAM you have installed, slows things down as it's trying to manage them both. Furthrmore, dedicated cards typically use a different style of RAM that has higher bandwidth than system RAM (GDDR instead of DDR).

To be honest, unless you're doing CAD or 3D rendering, most of these cards would probably be decent for what you need... if they had their own onboard memory. Take one of nVidia's budget cards, for instance:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/des.....specifications

Note that it has a lower base speed, but a higher maximum, and most importantly, it has 512MB of its own RAM. Now the GeForce 210 costs about $30; that's nothing. That being said, this one isn't going to be able to game pretty much at all. Here's the "bare minimum" gaming card from nVidia:

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/des.....specifications

Same base speed, much higher maximum, and 1GB of its own RAM. Now again, that might not sound like much if it were taken from your system memory, but the big problem is the different style of connection and the nature of sharing RAM: it means lots of swapping and reordering has to be done since the RAM is doing double duty. This card retails for about $50.

*Headdesk* This whole thing is really starting to make my head hurt.

I have one person saying ram doesn't matter much and focus on graphics card and another saying essentially the opposite.

Aheh, ah, yeah I saw their comments. I mean, I wouldn't say s/he's wrong. I think it's more of a mixup of terms. Here's the thing about RAM; it doesn't really add "speed" per se, and you can get along okay with 4 gigs. But it really does depend on how you draw and how much you multitask, and how "clean" you can keep your computer (i.e., how much crap you have running in the background). For instance, if you like to draw in Photoshop with dozens of layers, you'll want more. If you draw in OpenCavas with a single layer, not so much. What it comes down to though is that RAM is fairly cheap, and having too much isn't really going to hurt you. That being said, I wouldn't bother with more than 8GB.

And the graphics card, well, it's kinda variable... here's the thing. You want a decent card, but there's no reason to get a really high-end one, because mostly what those do is add capability to 3D modelling, or things like a PhysX chip (which just helps render real-time physics graphics) or SLI (lets you hook up two cards together). If all you're doing is drawing on a 2D plane with multiple layers, an average graphics card should be just fine. Almost all graphics cards are optimized for gaming, and those that aren't are optimized for video editing or 3D rendering. You, I assume, are doing none of these.

What I think LevLion may be saying (though if this is not, please excuse me for putting words in your mouth, LL) is that you want something better than the integrated graphics cards that are usually on these pre-built systems. And that's what I'd recommend too. But that doesn't mean you have to go out and get a $200 graphics card.

My advice? Find a dual-core with a decent speed, get 8GB of RAM on that, and get something from nVidia's GeForce 600 series to go with it. You should be able to do this for less than $500.

This is the only thing I can find for nvidia 600 on amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gainward-NV.....193&sr=1-4

Problem there is that to keep it under £350 the only way to get that card is by getting a good enough PC for under £280 [unless that's the wrong card, it does seem rather higher-end than what you describe.]

Probably gonna have to find one that will service well enough without a graphics card and someday upgrade. The two PC world links seem to be the best I've been able to find anywhere. :(

Oh no, I didn't mean just the 600, I meant the whole series!

Check out this 610 for instance:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Nvidia.....874&sr=8-1
£30, much better than £70.

So http://tinyurl.com/cj7299b + http://tinyurl.com/bsdu23e ?

I'd expect that combination should do nicely!

Heh, so long as they fit together XD

Levl recommends against it, says air-cooled isn't worth buying and that that card is no better than an onboard really :( *Keeps looking*

Oh! Well he's right about the cooling; my bad, I did not notice that. You'll definitely want one with a fan.

PC sorted. Ordered this: http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/adven.....85300-pdt.html

Now I have £50 [max with shipping] for a compatible card [that other card didn't even say what it's connection slot type was XD.]

"Asus GT610SL1GD3L 1GB PCIE LP 1GB DDR3 810MHZ VGA DVI HDMI IN 90C1CSC1L0UANAYZ Components Video Graphics Cards "
PCI Express. =P Pretty much any card you find these days is going to be PCIe 16x. Much better budget for a card though!

(Sorry for all the double posting, forgot something.)

If you're really strapped, you could also try the GeForce 210, which explicitly doesn't have any game technology support, but will probably be enough for what you need. It's not too much cheaper, though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palit-GeFor.....40&sr=1-13

Actually, another thing. As a comparison benchmark, here are my system's specs. I don't have a super gaming machine, but it's pretty powerful and I can play most games that are a year or two old at max detail:

AMD FX-4100 Quad-Core Processor @ 3.62GHz
16GB RAM (DDR1600)
nVidia G-Force GTX 550 Ti w/ 1024MB RAM (GDDR5)
Windows 7 64-bit

So keep in mind with what you'll be doing, you probably don't need to go beyond about half of what my system specs are. Kinda makes me wish I could let go of PC gaming; it'd be a lot cheaper. xD

Have you not tried just reinstalling the OS all those errors seem more like damaged OS errors even a repair might sort most of it. Would tied you over while you pay off other bills.

I don't even know if I could do that.

Currently the laptop is running windows 7 professional 64bit [which I got via the university, or rather a friend got and didn't use so gave me his free copy.] I have no idea if the code will still be valid to do a reinstall.

My laptop never came with a disk for it's original OS [vista home 32bit.]

The laptop is really starting to struggle to do what's needed of it and it would be at least a year before I'd have my overdraft cleared anyway. Difficult situation or not I think it's time [really can't afford to lose it as I'm horribly isolated as it is and it's hard enough to look for work even with a working computer XD]

Weird my desktops has had 7 pro 64 on it from almost release and its still nippy. But thats the different between keeping on top of things I guess.

If you got hold of a disc they do have a repair option where it reinstalls all the OS system files but doesnt change the structure so when it boots again it looks like normal to you but all the system files have been renewed. That helps if your getting blue screens and things maybe down to corrupted systems.

Alternatively you can use software to extract your code although no matter how it came to you you should still have the code to reinstall it.

What I have is a [legally] downloaded copy from the university's servers, provided to my friend for free as he was on a digital animation course, burned onto a dvd-r with the code for it. I don't know however if that code had a timelimit on it so that it would only be usable for his degree duration [all other software they provided was.]

I'll have to try to find the disk and see if it will repare, but I'm definitely getting a new PC soon [likely ordering it on the 9th, the day after the due date for my credit card so that I'll have 30 days interest free time to get the rest of the money to cover it without any extra charges.]

Would you mind looking at the two links above for me and letting me know what you think regarding my needs and budget limit? Maybe recommend others? [No monitor needed.]

Well if it was a uni copy its only legal for students on the course its intended for anything outside of that isnt legal.

The 2 things look ok, although if you wanna do basic gaming with no need for more AMD with ATI graphics will give you more for less.

Its also worth you looking here http://www.overclockers.co.uk/produ.....amp;subid=2038 usually better for cheaper than mainstream companies like pcworld

I walked to their store in stoke at the end of my first year in Uni [07,] picked pieces and built a PC.... didn't understand it then, don't now and remember it being a massive pain in the ass XD [hell, it wouldn't let me install the OS off the dvd-rw I put in it and instead required me to first use a USB dvd-rw to install it before it would even recognise it....]

I just about understand about choosing the right ram when upgrading [don't mix them,] knowing what cards, processors, whatever to use with the right frame and motherboard.... nope.

The site just doesn't seem userfriendly enough for me to use it, I like how PCworld [ripoffs that they have been in the past and may still be] at least state what the maximum ram each pc can take is [so i could get one with lesser ram but a better processor and later improve the ram.]

I really am thick [and inexperienced] when it comes to hardware. I need all the help I can get.

The link should have taken you to complete systems they sell just like pc world complete systems all ready to go including OS so you dont need to do much at all.

Tbh that proble of not installing from dvd sounded like a bios problem or fault. If you had rang them they would have tlaked you through it they are really helpful and friendly.

Although to be picky its in Newcastle not Stoke :P

Yep, that showed complete systems but the specs info is much more confusing and I see nothing about what ram they are capable of holding or much useful info for plems like me at all XD

Also, looks like it moved, it was in Fenton back then.

Must have been a long time ago then its been on High Carr Business Park for at least 6 years.

But yeah they dont tell you how much ram a motherboard can hold just like PC world dont tell you the max they just tell you what the systems DO come with :P If you want to know the max one can hold then you might as well look up the motherboard number in their product list and it will be in the specs but knowing things like that are pretty pointless. More ram doesnt a faster system make.

Maybe they had two locations for a while then, when I used them in 2007 they were on the Imex business park in Fenton http://tinyurl.com/cjkdsy8 [found that address using "overclockers fenton" as a google search XD.]

Both of the linked PC world considerations state that they can have a maximum of 16GB of ram [2 8GB pieces.] I though that next to processing power ram was THE most vital component? Unless you are using a HUGE brush size in an art programme the processor doesn't tend to struggle, however the more you do in the piece the larger the amount of ram it uses so the more you have the better as you won't suffer system resource issues as soon right? [Like I say, I don't know shit beyond what I've observed over time.]

Ram is important but its not the be all and end all of things now. People just end up sticking loads of ram in and thinking that makes it fast, a balanced system is fast without lots of ram.

I do all my pictures in extremely high resolutions and they usually have about 150 layers and i can put any brush on I like and my computer doesn't blink an eye. I have 4gb of ram!
Likewise my system can play the newly released guild wars 2 on high settings with a good fps even displaying full 3D yet the system is 3 years old now. Because it was a well designed system with a good graphics card it can do all this without loads of one particular thing.

Painting programs can use the GPU for nearly all the processing now which means its better to have better graphics even if your not a gamer. As a lot of GPU's are faster than CPU's for some kinda of programming a lot of visual things like CAD's and 3D rendering software now uses exclusively the GPU if you let it and its much faster for it.

So I would consider spending a little more of the gpu and getting less ram as an option.

Makes sense, though I know nothing at all about balancing components/settings. That is definitely beyond me.

With my limited knowledge I will definitely need more than just 4GB of ram [well, that's fine to start with but I do NEED the ability to upgrade it to a higher number when I can afford to.] My current laptop [the one being replaced] has 4gig and it's constantly reaching maximum usage for the ram just with browsing in most cases.