WotDA - Worst Session of Werewolf in Ages >_<
13 years ago
General
Pissed off fox is pissed. So guys, you get to hear me venting because there's no one online to vent privately to.
Most of you know that I take Werewolf very seriously. I don't like having drunk people play, I don't like too much time spent on silly wtf defenses, etc. That's just the start of what was going wrong tonight, locally. It gets way worse than just the rowdiness. Tonight I had many many instances of people focusing way too much on things like movement at night, people's reactions to getting their cards, people actively ASKING about if they heard anything at night, people making motions at night, people talking at night, people talking after someone gets lynched, people talking before dead bodies are revealed.... You name it, they were pulling it. Oh, and these are not new players misbehaving like this. This was people that knew how to play and were specifically doing every bullshit trick in their fucking book outside of specifically peeking at night. And for all I know, someone could have done that. -___-
I tell them, repeatedly, to knock it off. To keep it focused on the game. To focus on the people being accused. To shut the fuck up once someone gets lynched. To shut the fuck up at night. I mean, seriously, I was livid tonight. And I don't generally get mad at folks. When I do, it's minor enough I can vent to a friend or two and get over it. Some of you know exactly what I'm talking about. Some of you know exactly the type of person I'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, I am okay with people like I--- but I get exhausted by their constant CONSTANT attempts to break through the rules I set in place to try and win. Well it was like I had half a room full of I---'s tonight. These are the overly vocal people that confuse everyone and end up dying early every game because -everyone- wants them dead because they're scared of what they could be. Sure, they are 'good' players, but their playstyle is such that the game ends up suffering when they are around -- it becomes all about them.
I'm no stranger to being in games and basically running them from within. I do that a lot. But as someone who has viewed things from the GM's standpoint, and from an entertainer's standpoint, I do try and leave it in the hands of the others at certain points. I can't be making all of the decisions. I'll accuse people, pressure them, then state if I believe them or not but often I will not try and force my opinion on the village as correct. I will even choose not to lynch someone suspicious. Sometimes I want someone dead but sometimes I let the village figure it out on their own.
This brand of person has no such civility. They go for the throat every time around and they end up taking away the thrill of deduction from the new players -- or worse yet, they confuse the bloody fuck outta the new people to where they can't even follow things. They take away everyone's chance for bluffing, they just... they only care about winning from everything I can tell. Winning is great, especially in a social deception game, but there's a lot of people playing and they all deserve to have a chance at those joys.
So back to the problem. A room full of cutthroat players that are loud, confusing, and take meta-gaming to a whole new level of DOUCHE. I yell at them to stop, I yell at them to focus, and they refuse to listen. Worse, they backtalk to me, the GM, the maker of this variant, the host of the event, the one taking the time and effort and expenses to entertain. >_<; I had one guy, the worst offender of the night, literally start out by glaring at me and demanding I hurry up and start the game, that it was taking too long to get it set up and started. Seriously? I hurry as it is, but the more distracting and impatient you are, the longer it will take. Meanwhile he already knows most of the roles and is disruptive when I'm actually explaining things. Guys, I'm explaining cards. STFU. I know it's hard to do when you know everything, I know you want to be social during the down time, I do know these things. But it makes. It. A pain. In. The. ASS. The new people can't hear, they can't focus, and they end up failing to grasp the game and the roles. Just shut up when I'm trying to talk to everyone and raise your hands to ask questions or remind me if I forgot something. My throat hurts tonight and that's even with a microphone. Granted I was yelling off-mic at various people for being dicks the whole night AND spent 2 hours afterwards venting to someone. Nnnnng.
I had one guy, a friend of a player I tolerate, who cannot play the game. He is bad. Very bad. And he thinks he's good. He gets out of his seat during the night phase, and points with such force that everyone around him can tell he's pointing. He yells at the top of his lungs every time he says anything and doesn't even pay attention to the right things. He's wrong 90% of the time if not more and is basically a total spaz. He was one of the worst irritants tonight when as the Oracle, he's basically slamming into his neighbor trying to point to someone, and tries to stand up at one point. HOW THE FUCK AM I GOING TO TEACH PEOPLE TO IGNORE NIGHT TIME NOISE WHEN YOU ARE ACTING LIKE THAT? FUUUUUUUUUUCK. People are so stupid sometimes! They are in a huge hurry, don't have the patience to take it slow and logical, and end up breaking the game. *SIGH*
Another new player ended up calling out a less-than-new Werewolf because he had moved at night and she heard him. I didn't yell at her then because she was new but it's one of those things where, what can you even do? It's impolite to use that information because of the poor seating quarters. People who have played at Oklacon are MORE than aware of my policies on such things. Ignore it, it's probably true but it might not be. And either way it's not something that's fair to listen for. The night phase is an invisible technical phase. You should not be getting ANY info from the other players or the GM unless it's related to how your role functions.
I start out another game by saying that a silenced person, for this group, normally cannot speak or accuse but in addition should not make motions unless being asked questions. The first two problematic people listen to me. Then the main offender of the night gets silenced and REFUSES to play by the rule I laid down. He's out of his seat about 50% of the long ass day phase, no one can understand his pantomimed defense, and then even after they are done with him he keeps trying to 'say' things. He CANNOT just sit the fuck down and patiently wait until tomorrow. HE HAS to be 'vocal' in every way he can. And he had been that dominating and assholish the entire night. The one who said hurry up and start.
During the entire night I'm training a new GM, someone who had been wanting to help me out so that I could actually play games. Oh I should note, none of these 'good' players have any desire to learn to GM, they just want to play-to-win. This group is completely devoid of anyone with a real nack for GMing. The person I'm training is... not quite cut out for it, but she's willing to try hard. So. Sure. Throughout the night, not only am I getting stressed, but she starts to get pissed off, too. In fact, she resorts to cursing at their idiocy and unruliness far before I do. So it's not like it's just me. It's everyone. I finally get to play a round, last one of the night. This is after I've yelled my lungs out at the problem people and basically said 'I'm sick of it'. I finally explain to them the basics of: "Shut up at night, stop making movement at night, stop listening for movement at night, stop staring at people as they get their cards, and for fuck's sake stop getting distracted during accusations." They still didn't get it. That game I chewed people out for 1. Asking about nighttime movement; 'hearing something at night'. 2. Accusing someone because of a comment they made when getting their card; who the fuck cares what you say when you get your card, it's either unfair to noobs or is TOTAL BULLSHIT AND THUS NOT IMPORTANT SO STFU ABOUT IT. 3. The main asshole of the night acting like he was in charge of the group/game and trying to 'regulate the discussion how he interpreted what I was trying to say' -- You can't talk to each other, only to the accused; you can't ask questions to other people. Just, seriously, you're NOT LISTENING TO WHAT I SAID. I said 'keep it focused around the accused and accuser', which means side discussion between neighbors is fine at a non-distracting volume, and people not involved can be asked questions by the one accused to a reasonable extent. But he was being a total prick about "ooop, nope, can't do that now"... NNNG. STRANGLE SOME PEOPLE.
Anyway, the outcome of the game was crap because the other Werewolf (surprise I was a Werewolf, but I was actually progressing as a Villager because I at least needed to teach them how to stay focused on finding info) was very new and didn't really understand when to go after the Seer who was revealed. I died and couldn't finish the job. :/ And he never really had gotten the chance to learn how to go about things because these I--- type people dominated the game SO MUCH that no one that was new got a real chance to learn. Sure, pretty much everyone was having fun except the two GMs, but it really wasn't 'Werewolf'... It wasn't what I like to see in Werewolf, and I just... I had a really crappy crappy night.
On the bright side, I made $25 in tips despite being super ticked off at half of everyone. Most of that goes to Puppy Chow (made a batch, it all got 'et :P) and to the gas to get there and back but at least I was rewarded for trying. :X
It's tough being a GM, especially when people don't focus on the game. The dead people get bored, the GMs get bored and ticked off, and the game just sits there, going in circles, focusing on silly stuff that half the group thinks is dumb but is too polite to say anything about. Meanwhile no one learns anything about social dynamics because no one has a chance to. Please think of the poor GMs who run the games next time you play. They go through so much to make sure the game stays pure. The day phase from the point someone is announced dead, until the point where hands are raised to carry out a successful lynching, is the only time that the village 'interacts' with each other. That means there should be no talking, no 'bonus' remarks, no strategic mutterings, nothing more than a chuckle or groan, outside of that short amount of time. The night phase is invisible, the GM is invisible, and unless your power tells you something, or you heard it during the day / saw it in the voting patterns, then it's something you should NOT be paying attention to, for the sake of noobs everywhere. We all deserve to have a fun and fair experience. Okay guys?
*sigh* At least I'm a little more chilled now that I've ranted. Insight into the mind of a GM that's had a stressful session of gameplay. And I don't hate I---, or that player type, but these people need to knock off the bullshit of trying to bend the rules of the game. I tell them, over and over and over, and smack them upside the friggin head at times! And they still. Keep. Doing iiiiiiiiiit. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
Most of you know that I take Werewolf very seriously. I don't like having drunk people play, I don't like too much time spent on silly wtf defenses, etc. That's just the start of what was going wrong tonight, locally. It gets way worse than just the rowdiness. Tonight I had many many instances of people focusing way too much on things like movement at night, people's reactions to getting their cards, people actively ASKING about if they heard anything at night, people making motions at night, people talking at night, people talking after someone gets lynched, people talking before dead bodies are revealed.... You name it, they were pulling it. Oh, and these are not new players misbehaving like this. This was people that knew how to play and were specifically doing every bullshit trick in their fucking book outside of specifically peeking at night. And for all I know, someone could have done that. -___-
I tell them, repeatedly, to knock it off. To keep it focused on the game. To focus on the people being accused. To shut the fuck up once someone gets lynched. To shut the fuck up at night. I mean, seriously, I was livid tonight. And I don't generally get mad at folks. When I do, it's minor enough I can vent to a friend or two and get over it. Some of you know exactly what I'm talking about. Some of you know exactly the type of person I'm talking about. Don't get me wrong, I am okay with people like I--- but I get exhausted by their constant CONSTANT attempts to break through the rules I set in place to try and win. Well it was like I had half a room full of I---'s tonight. These are the overly vocal people that confuse everyone and end up dying early every game because -everyone- wants them dead because they're scared of what they could be. Sure, they are 'good' players, but their playstyle is such that the game ends up suffering when they are around -- it becomes all about them.
I'm no stranger to being in games and basically running them from within. I do that a lot. But as someone who has viewed things from the GM's standpoint, and from an entertainer's standpoint, I do try and leave it in the hands of the others at certain points. I can't be making all of the decisions. I'll accuse people, pressure them, then state if I believe them or not but often I will not try and force my opinion on the village as correct. I will even choose not to lynch someone suspicious. Sometimes I want someone dead but sometimes I let the village figure it out on their own.
This brand of person has no such civility. They go for the throat every time around and they end up taking away the thrill of deduction from the new players -- or worse yet, they confuse the bloody fuck outta the new people to where they can't even follow things. They take away everyone's chance for bluffing, they just... they only care about winning from everything I can tell. Winning is great, especially in a social deception game, but there's a lot of people playing and they all deserve to have a chance at those joys.
So back to the problem. A room full of cutthroat players that are loud, confusing, and take meta-gaming to a whole new level of DOUCHE. I yell at them to stop, I yell at them to focus, and they refuse to listen. Worse, they backtalk to me, the GM, the maker of this variant, the host of the event, the one taking the time and effort and expenses to entertain. >_<; I had one guy, the worst offender of the night, literally start out by glaring at me and demanding I hurry up and start the game, that it was taking too long to get it set up and started. Seriously? I hurry as it is, but the more distracting and impatient you are, the longer it will take. Meanwhile he already knows most of the roles and is disruptive when I'm actually explaining things. Guys, I'm explaining cards. STFU. I know it's hard to do when you know everything, I know you want to be social during the down time, I do know these things. But it makes. It. A pain. In. The. ASS. The new people can't hear, they can't focus, and they end up failing to grasp the game and the roles. Just shut up when I'm trying to talk to everyone and raise your hands to ask questions or remind me if I forgot something. My throat hurts tonight and that's even with a microphone. Granted I was yelling off-mic at various people for being dicks the whole night AND spent 2 hours afterwards venting to someone. Nnnnng.
I had one guy, a friend of a player I tolerate, who cannot play the game. He is bad. Very bad. And he thinks he's good. He gets out of his seat during the night phase, and points with such force that everyone around him can tell he's pointing. He yells at the top of his lungs every time he says anything and doesn't even pay attention to the right things. He's wrong 90% of the time if not more and is basically a total spaz. He was one of the worst irritants tonight when as the Oracle, he's basically slamming into his neighbor trying to point to someone, and tries to stand up at one point. HOW THE FUCK AM I GOING TO TEACH PEOPLE TO IGNORE NIGHT TIME NOISE WHEN YOU ARE ACTING LIKE THAT? FUUUUUUUUUUCK. People are so stupid sometimes! They are in a huge hurry, don't have the patience to take it slow and logical, and end up breaking the game. *SIGH*
Another new player ended up calling out a less-than-new Werewolf because he had moved at night and she heard him. I didn't yell at her then because she was new but it's one of those things where, what can you even do? It's impolite to use that information because of the poor seating quarters. People who have played at Oklacon are MORE than aware of my policies on such things. Ignore it, it's probably true but it might not be. And either way it's not something that's fair to listen for. The night phase is an invisible technical phase. You should not be getting ANY info from the other players or the GM unless it's related to how your role functions.
I start out another game by saying that a silenced person, for this group, normally cannot speak or accuse but in addition should not make motions unless being asked questions. The first two problematic people listen to me. Then the main offender of the night gets silenced and REFUSES to play by the rule I laid down. He's out of his seat about 50% of the long ass day phase, no one can understand his pantomimed defense, and then even after they are done with him he keeps trying to 'say' things. He CANNOT just sit the fuck down and patiently wait until tomorrow. HE HAS to be 'vocal' in every way he can. And he had been that dominating and assholish the entire night. The one who said hurry up and start.
During the entire night I'm training a new GM, someone who had been wanting to help me out so that I could actually play games. Oh I should note, none of these 'good' players have any desire to learn to GM, they just want to play-to-win. This group is completely devoid of anyone with a real nack for GMing. The person I'm training is... not quite cut out for it, but she's willing to try hard. So. Sure. Throughout the night, not only am I getting stressed, but she starts to get pissed off, too. In fact, she resorts to cursing at their idiocy and unruliness far before I do. So it's not like it's just me. It's everyone. I finally get to play a round, last one of the night. This is after I've yelled my lungs out at the problem people and basically said 'I'm sick of it'. I finally explain to them the basics of: "Shut up at night, stop making movement at night, stop listening for movement at night, stop staring at people as they get their cards, and for fuck's sake stop getting distracted during accusations." They still didn't get it. That game I chewed people out for 1. Asking about nighttime movement; 'hearing something at night'. 2. Accusing someone because of a comment they made when getting their card; who the fuck cares what you say when you get your card, it's either unfair to noobs or is TOTAL BULLSHIT AND THUS NOT IMPORTANT SO STFU ABOUT IT. 3. The main asshole of the night acting like he was in charge of the group/game and trying to 'regulate the discussion how he interpreted what I was trying to say' -- You can't talk to each other, only to the accused; you can't ask questions to other people. Just, seriously, you're NOT LISTENING TO WHAT I SAID. I said 'keep it focused around the accused and accuser', which means side discussion between neighbors is fine at a non-distracting volume, and people not involved can be asked questions by the one accused to a reasonable extent. But he was being a total prick about "ooop, nope, can't do that now"... NNNG. STRANGLE SOME PEOPLE.
Anyway, the outcome of the game was crap because the other Werewolf (surprise I was a Werewolf, but I was actually progressing as a Villager because I at least needed to teach them how to stay focused on finding info) was very new and didn't really understand when to go after the Seer who was revealed. I died and couldn't finish the job. :/ And he never really had gotten the chance to learn how to go about things because these I--- type people dominated the game SO MUCH that no one that was new got a real chance to learn. Sure, pretty much everyone was having fun except the two GMs, but it really wasn't 'Werewolf'... It wasn't what I like to see in Werewolf, and I just... I had a really crappy crappy night.
On the bright side, I made $25 in tips despite being super ticked off at half of everyone. Most of that goes to Puppy Chow (made a batch, it all got 'et :P) and to the gas to get there and back but at least I was rewarded for trying. :X
It's tough being a GM, especially when people don't focus on the game. The dead people get bored, the GMs get bored and ticked off, and the game just sits there, going in circles, focusing on silly stuff that half the group thinks is dumb but is too polite to say anything about. Meanwhile no one learns anything about social dynamics because no one has a chance to. Please think of the poor GMs who run the games next time you play. They go through so much to make sure the game stays pure. The day phase from the point someone is announced dead, until the point where hands are raised to carry out a successful lynching, is the only time that the village 'interacts' with each other. That means there should be no talking, no 'bonus' remarks, no strategic mutterings, nothing more than a chuckle or groan, outside of that short amount of time. The night phase is invisible, the GM is invisible, and unless your power tells you something, or you heard it during the day / saw it in the voting patterns, then it's something you should NOT be paying attention to, for the sake of noobs everywhere. We all deserve to have a fun and fair experience. Okay guys?
*sigh* At least I'm a little more chilled now that I've ranted. Insight into the mind of a GM that's had a stressful session of gameplay. And I don't hate I---, or that player type, but these people need to knock off the bullshit of trying to bend the rules of the game. I tell them, over and over and over, and smack them upside the friggin head at times! And they still. Keep. Doing iiiiiiiiiit. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
FA+

vanblod the guy who watched and you chatted with at TFF really loved watching the game with you i bet if we went to oklacon hed offer to help GM maybe train under you so he can help at TFF x3 but the same shit happens in D&D so i feel you *pets the poor fox.*
Ian is okay, he varies up his playstyle and makes an effort to share the spotlight and let everyone have fun. He also knows by now that it's more deceptive than not to try and take hints from my GMing [lol the Mystic bluff lolol] and he is nice enough to block out nighttime movement/noise metagaming for the sake of people having fun. :)
The game session was meant to be silly, yes, but I am really apprehensive about our real campaign right now...
Sorry the game sucked for you Tobias, GMing ain't easy, but at the same time running a successful game beats winning one as a player 1000x. Because YOU are the one who made it possible, YOU are the reason people are enjoying themselves. YOU feed them puppy chow.
But anyway, I know how you feel.
Thanks. Again, people were having fun overall, and I felt really bad for being so grouchy. I've been in a great mood overall the last few weeks. Still happy from the convention. But they just. Kept. Being. DIFFICULT. *STRANGLES THE AIR* But yeah, I got $25 in tips, so I didn't do a horrible job. Even though I didn't even help GM half the time due to frustration. Monica did an okay job overall, and I helped her out where I could. I think she'll get it eventually but it's just sad that the 'good' players care way too much about playing to even consider helping me out. "I can't do that, no way!" - Well maybe if you stopped getting smashed like it's a booze-party. AND STOP MAKING IT A BOOZE-PARTY, NNNG, bringing alcohol for 'everyone'. :/ *SIGH* There's a reason I essentially said "stop bringing alcohol to Werewolf" at cons like MFM and Oklacon. It, and the people who insist on being drunk, tend to be the most detrimental part to the game in such environments. It's not a party, guys. It's a mentally engaging activity meant to stimulate and improve your social skills. This is coming from a high-functioning autistic who owes a large amount of his social functionality and people skills to his experience playing and then running Werewolf. >.>