This is so true, I couldn't put it any better.

Pretty much. What also bothers me, is when you are around people who say they have no problem with gay people, and are kool with all things gay, begin to act all weird when you actually do start to bring up things like you had mentioned. And then try to hide it and hope you don't notice.

And I thought they just wanted Bugs Bunny... It is all cool with me. I think they are better people anyway. And so much more fun to hang out with. But the fact Gays will never be accepted fully by the world. There will always be those certain assholes out there. It is still hard enough being BI as well. Gives ya Bugs Hugs. Just be proud of who you are, and glad who you are not....

I think it's also self imposed with how open someone is about it with people around them

If a straight person talks about their family to me at my work on break or what not, I should be allowed to talk about my family in return. And no I'm not saying sexual details or stuff like that, just basic stuff, like "We went out to this italian place for dinner".

i agree, i was just adding my 2 cents that's all, at lest that's what I've noticed from my job with the guys at my job, they always seem afraid to talk about there life i guess for that reason

You shouldn't have to wait for another person to bring up their family. If you are friends with somebody or on a social basis with co-workers then it is a valid topic of discussion whether or not they speak about their family first.

I don't think I'd call it "self-imposed"... It is self-imposed only out of necessity (meaning that it really isn't self-imposed but forced) because people in non-heterosexual relationships do not have the assurance that a heterosexual male or female has that speaking candidly about their relationship won't cost them their job, friends and in some cases family. It's not a matter of being too guarded or "closeted", it's a matter of indoctrinated bigoted ideologies influencing societal norms and what is currently regarded as acceptable. Oddly enough, on a humane and moral level, most of what current society sees as normal and acceptable in this (and many other cases), is completely unacceptable even by the teachings of the figure worshiped by our biggest group of detractors, as Ripner pointed out in his OP. For many (if not most) LGBT oriented people the risk is simply too great to be completely open, so they live in a what may seem like a "self-imposed" closet in fear of safety for their jobs, friends, family, etc, but in reality it is socially-imposed and that is what makes it wrong for someone to have to deal with.

/minirant

i fully agree, and i did mean in my op as in a way that it just seemed like that with my co-workers and people i know around me, i know everywhere is different with what's the "norm"

but i do agree with how people react, i act....well my self at work, and that sometimes gets picked on just because it's out of there "norm" so i understand when any of my gay co-workers only really talk about there life to me when it's not in the group setting, idk, I've never really thought of the impact of losing a job for just being gay or talking about it [then again most, if not all government agencys have very strong rules with treating all as equal]


i was just noting what i see.

If I were to note some biblical ideas, Jesus laid on that hippie stuff pretty thick. He was really into loving your enemy and not wronging those who have wronged you. This is all in that book that the Westboro Baptist Church holds up when they scream at gay people. Most Christians don't seem to act like Christians. There are RL people who have embraced these benevolent and loving Christian teachings. Ghandi was one of them. Ghandi was so fucking Christian, he was Hindu. He once proclaimed that Christianity seemed like a fairly nice idea, but most Christians didn't.

But enough about religion. I think gay people want the same basic things as straight people. They want to experience happiness, health, and well being while simultaneously not depriving those opportunities from others. This is pretty basic. At least, I can certainly say that I want these things.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

Yes, that's it. I didn't bother to look up the quote, I just paraphrased.

It's alright, I really like this quote so I did it for you. :3

Wow.... that is quite a statement to make.

Especially that last sentence.



If it is your honest belief, then I wish more furs would take after you.

I was born and raised Catholic, and that is exactly what I was taught throughout catholic grade school and college. No one ever taught me to hate those who were different in those places, never taught me that the Catholic way was the only way, was just always taught the Golden Rule.

A little surprised to see you talking to me after the other day, very nice to see no grudges are being held.

Heh I really can't hold a grudge. It's just not with me, I'll be mad/butt-hurt/ what have you but I just end up calming down anyway.
Aside from that, I was raised as a baptist christian myself. There, we were taught pretty much the same thing in that little Sunday school. However I was told that there way was the only way, and other sects of Christianity were even wrong.

Growing up I always wondered where the pastor knew what to say, or rather what God wanted him to say. Most of the stuff I heard didn't come from the bible.

I also found it strange how my parents kept on switching churches every so often, generally without a reason.
I really am not a religious person, but the morals I was taught from my parents I still value.

And yes, every now and again I will totally not represent those morals such as the other day....and this morning.

Very good to know.

As for my Catholic High School I even had a yearlong comparative religions classes where we learned about a lot of other religions' beliefs, along with books of the bible that were written but eventually dropped, and a lot of the reasons certain things were included in the bible and later disputed. My teacher of the class, who was a Catholic Priest, taught me that things like birth control not being allowed, and homosexuality being a sin, were originally put in the bible because the religion wanted to grow quickly. Both of those things inhibit growth, by stopping people from having children.

Fascinating, I have never really been taught any sort of theology, so this is like mind blowing.

Very well said.

So true

I agree with what you say, but on the flip-side I feel in the furry fandom at least, sometimes the opposite happens. Either females are degraded because of their genitalia, or straight couples are "ewwied". This has been my experience at least on FA seeing that type of stuff a lot, so unfortunately it seems every side has to be able be more mindful of the other.

In the end I wish people would coexist with one another and not be disgusted or put off because of someone else's gender or orientation.

I agree with that. Don't go to anthrocon because that kind of talk and thinking is rampant. I'm gay but I still don't like when straight couples or women are looked down on. I really don't get it. Homosexuals deal with it everyday in their normal lives, but when they are free to do as they please in an accepting environment (like a con) all some do is do it to others.

Yea it is obnoxious and rude when gays do the same thing in return. It's not something I do, I have many straight and female friends who I treat the same as my gay friends, well without any sexual teasing of course. I think a lot do it to get back at having it done to them, but I've always felt two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree with what you say, but on the flip-side I feel in the furry fandom at least, sometimes the opposite happens. Either females are degraded because of their genitalia, or straight couples are "ewwied". This has been my experience at least on FA seeing that type of stuff a lot, so unfortunately it seems every side has to be able be more mindful of the other.

In the end I wish people would coexist with one another and not be disgusted or put off because of someone else's gender or orientation.

I agree with this 100%. I know there is a lot of issues around openness. I am lucky enough if I don't talk about it my employees will actually ask how Heff and I are doing and when the hell I'm going to visit him. But that's only at work. Outside I'm in a really Christian area. Even though my town has a massive homosexual population we all have to hide it

Not every heterosexual can be open and honest about their life. I can't, if I want to be taken seriously.

Being straight doesn't give one a free ticket to a normal life.

I'd love to hear more on the reasoning for this, I don't really understand.

Let's try this again...

You must also understand that I don't speak for every heterosexual male. I speak only for myself. I realize that I am far from a normal heterosexual male. Even within the furry fandom, I am an anti-social enigma.

I have found that I cannot be open about my lifestyle because the moment I am, people I'm around immediately stop taking me seriously. I'm an extremely introverted thirty year old male that lives by himself, spends the bulk of his free time in the apartment that he owns, playing video games or watching movies/TV shows he's purchased. I also have a fantasy life wherein I assume a character of a trenchcoat sporting anthropomorphic skunk.

I have no wife, no husband, no kids, and no friends besides the cat I own.

That's it. That's my life in its entirety. And with the exception about having no friends or partner, it's the very life I ambitiously worked hard to earn.

I am not only extremely introverted, I'm also extremely selfish. Especially when it comes to friends. In order to be my friend, you have to fulfill something in my life that I am missing.

Examples: One has to understand that video games are my life, and that they can either join me in the lifestyle, or they can silently accept it. Don't ever criticize it, because I won't tolerate it.

Understand that I never want kids. This is a decision that will not change. Accept it.

Unless otherwise expressed by me, I have no desire to travel or be a tourist. I have no interest in partaking in outdoor activities, camping, recreational activities, sports. Again, accept this, otherwise don't waste my time.

If I don't want to do something, one must not pressure me into doing it because they want my company.

One must be capable of critical thought and rational, logical, intelligent debate. I will not tolerate arguments driven by emotion.

One must keep themselves clean and be tidy.

And finally, if one cannot accept any of these things about me, then they must at the very least be willing to sleep with me. If they're not, then they're not worth a second of my time, because their friendship brings no value. In fact, their presence in my life is a burden rather than a boon, and the sooner they get out of my life, the better.

Naturally, one could assume that this personality comes across as very stubborn and uncompromising. And they're right; it is. I'm very stand-offish, and it takes a great deal of patience to tolerate me if you don't share my viewpoints or interests. The number of people that fit into my social circle numbers less than fingers on my hand, including immediate family.

I lost my last friend a couple weeks ago over an argument wherein she criticized my lifestyle. Having no one left to talk too about anything in my life, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I find it absolutely unfair that I worked so hard to live the very life I want to live only to be rewarded with complete isolation within it. It's why I've recently turned to psychological counseling. I don't know how much it will help in the long run, but at least I can tell someone what's bothering me and be heard, be listened to, not be brushed aside dismissively or be told I just need to do X or Y, or be willing to step outside my comfort zone once in a while. I'm hoping at the very least I can earn the courage to accept myself for the kind of person I am and be satisfied with it, because it's very unlikely that as I get older, anyone is going to want to share in this sort of lifestyle with me.

So go ahead and envy heterosexual people. I envy you on the basis that you can at least share your life with someone. In all likelihood, the only thing I'm going to be able to share my life with is my cat.

Thank you for sharing, it's actually given me a lot more to think about that you'd guess. My boyfriend's been battling some severe depression issues, and truthfully I have never researched introverts before, and he has never brought it up but this along with the myths about introverts link on your web page has given me quite a good deal to think about . . .