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Re: The issue of Commission Pricing
12 years ago
Pretty heavy for forum read by 
nai-chan regarding commission prices. Very informative and make a lot of clever points.
(01) Introduction
(02) The first major issue
(03) Over pricing
(04) Why cant anyone get their prices right!?
(05) The going rate
(06) Skilled labor
(07) Underpricing,
(08) Hourly rate
(09) Price points
(10) A good price range
(11) Working for free
(12) Good customer service
(13) Merchandising
(14) Auctions
(15) Donations
(01) Introduction
It's a delicate subject to all of us here in the community and since I've been doing it for almost 8 years now, I thought I might share my thoughts! (I found out recently thanks to Coral checking my records I've had over 190 customers O)x(O~)
I've written, I think, 2 journals on the subject before, but in both journals I got some enlightened replies that made me take a step back and consider my stance on the matter. This time round I want to approach things as fairly as I can from both the perspective of a buyer and an artist.
(02) The first major issue,
The first thing I want to mention is that internet commissions are a new financial structure to the world of art. This means our expectations as sellers and buyers rarely match which will inevitably cause conflict! My first statement here is that, for buyers and sellers alike, we have to be patient while a workable standard makes its self clear.
The hard work here lies on the shoulders of the artist, as we are the price setters, and we either learn to make enough to survive, or we are forced to stop. If our brightest artists can't find ways to reimburse the time they spend working for the people on FA, they quit. End of story. But the artists on FA are testing new business models and pricing strictures all the time! As a customer, please don't be too aggressive with artists who are trying out new pricing models.
(03) Over pricing
Some people are pricing their works too high for the FA market. It can be really upsetting as a customer when something you were hyped to buy is out of your price range. (I bet we all remember the PS3 launch >w<) But unlike a big corporation, you're dealing with an individual and their whole career when you rage at them. They're just one person trying to see what works.
Your aggression is more likely to make our favorite artist leave than it is to make them change their prices. But you're not helpless, you can always vote with your wallet, and money talks! If their prices really are too high, they wont get enough customers to make ends meet. That means they make LESS money in the long run, and trust me, that will change their mind for them.
(04) Why cant anyone get their prices right!?
So why do some artists charge an ass load when others seem fine charging pocket change? Well, the difference between casual and professional pricing is if that artist is using FA to pay BILLS. But art forums and commissioning is available to every age, skill level, and country. This means it is almost impossible to enforce a standard price. I want artists and buyers alike to understand that this is infuriating to everyone, but that diversity is what makes net communities epic.
(05) The going rate
As you all know, many FA artists are new artists, hobbyist, people living with minimal bills (IE with Parents), and people living in countries with a good local to USD exchange rate. Low prices are a great way to establish your customer base and compete with the legions of established, high quality artists.
(06) Skilled labor
To all my talented artist friends who have studied for 5-10+ years to become the masters you are, those guys set the curve for this market and you're just gonna have to deal with it. People WILL compare your prices to theirs, and if you want to make a living on FA, accept that your gonna have to be AMAZINGLY clever about it.
But don't be discouraged! It's all a matter of time in to money out. Even our top tier artists can actually charge 5 bucks for something and make a good living, so long as it doesn't take them more than 5 bucks worth of time. I'm gonna get technical for a second and say, if you, as a professional artist, haven't sorted out your personal hourly rate, then you're in trouble. Making a living through your art means you're a self employed individual, and that makes you a business. Handle your business right and you'll do just fine.
And remember, for every Mc'Donalds, there is another restaurant with a name you can't pronounce charging big and doing fine. People WILL bitch! People will complain about Mc'D's service as much as they will complain about the price at a french restaurant. Just know where your services fall on the scale of parking lot to Marriott and make your price match.
(07) Underpricing,
So how do you know if you're underpricing? Easy answer- Take on your standard commission but know the exact number of hours actively spent working it took to get it into your customers hands. If those hours add up to less than minimum wage, you are under charging for your work. You are literally charging less than a dishwasher, or a parking attendant for what you do. If that's how much you value your time, be my guest.
But just think about the term Minimum wage, because it is literally the number of dollars per hour needed in a standard work day to meet minimum living standards in your country. A lot of well paid people put together that number in order to stop greedy employers from telling you that what you do is not worth a dime.
(08) Hourly rate
So whats a good rate then? Well, more number hassling than you can probably be bothered with. But a quick sloppy way to calculate it is to take your weekly rent, utilities, and grocery bills, add them together, then divide them by a 40 hour working week, and add that number to minimum wage. Working freelance on FA counts as self employment, so your bills count as overheads and the minimum wage is what you charge for the time you spent.
Though most of them are pretty complicated, there are much better and more accurate ways to calculate this number. Trust me when I say, you want to know your hourly rate. It is how you and others value the time you spend. Your hourly rate goes up or down depending on how much people want a piece of your time, and without it you can be pressured into working more or less for free by ANYONE.
(A more detailed calculation can be found here. vvv
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope.....uch-30158.html
Or do some google research, like typing in 'how to calculate what my hourly wage should be'. It really isn't that hard, but it is certainly worth it.)
(09) Price points
So uh, what do you charge then?
Good pricing is a combination of price points and market expectations.*adjusts glasses* Price points are numbers associated with the value of certain objects. It's about how a car is way cheep at 4,000 cause I expect to pay at least 10k, but a stereo system is expensive at 500 cause I know I can get a good one for 100 bucks.
Buyers on Fa know they can get a sketch for 15 dollars, a full color work for 30, and the works for about 50 from artists here. They know they can generally ask for whatever they want in terms of the picture too. (Draw me a 17 headed hydra with this exact Celtic pattern all over his body and don't forget his piercings and head-wings. PS no reference ...etc) But they don't usually expect to be particularly wowed by the service or final results. Commissions are almost always ref for RPs, so it just needs to be close enough to say 'like this but the artist got his tattoos wrong'.
There is room for the FA price points to shift however. Other people value their RP characters, so they want someone who will be careful with the details or some one who's style is just perfect! They also want good friendly service, or to be able to get involved somehow with the artist avatar. It's customers like that who aren't satisfied with 'take what you get' and want to 'get what they can pay for'.
(10) A good price range
There are all sorts of customers and wallet sizes on FA, so when choosing your price points, my advice is to mix it up and offer a range of products for everyone. I've found the safe prices are between 5-150 dollars. Charging lower than that on commissions has no profit and much higher numbers will catch flack.
I template all my commission types as tightly as I can so that my customer knows EXACTLY what they're getting, and because it saves me a lot of extra design work that isn't the character themselves. I build those templates off my preferred price marks i.e. 20,40,60,70,150. When I charge less than that, it's for something I'm mass producing (like the Puppy Love games at $5), and generally I'll use an auction if I think what I'm gonna do will be valued higher than that (Like the Puppy Love Auction slots).
(11) Working for free
I have very little to say here except this, working for free means slavery. If its WORK and someone isn't paying you, they better be your parents, cause there are laws against that, and for good reasons. I had different views on this once, but this is what I've come to now. Do all the gift art and colab's you like, it is a great way to strengthen bonds with people you like! The people who can offer you genuine opportunities in this industry are people who know it well enough to make money from it themselves. If they cant offer you honest pay for honest work, they honestly aren't worth your time.
(12) Good customer service
Stop me if you've heard this one before, 'a guy on FA still waiting for a commission they payed for 5 years ago. Once/If they ever get it, there are sorry's and excuses about time and all these other important things that came up.' Our market is rife with that kinda thing. The people who don't value their time enough to properly charge for it are usually the people who deliver the worst service. Unless the person said, 'this commission will take 5 years, are you okay with that?' there is no excuse for this kind of service.
But for people who do art as a hobby, their life isn't organized around doing things in a professional way. They don't have a space and part of the day allocated solely to serving FA members. Veteran commissioners know reliability is worth forking out for. Many having wasted 100's on one unreliable artist after another, in many cases never to even get what they payed for. It's part of why the odd commissionee will fork out meggabucks for someone with a good reputation.
If you want to be a full time FA commissioner, use customer service to your advantage. Your willingness to give FA a space in your house to draw, and a time slot from your day is a gift to commissioners everywhere. Why? Because its only that kind of commissioner who's page doesn't always say 'COMMISSIONS CLOSED', it's only you guys who deliver within a week, it's only you guys who feel its important to sort out comment drama, or work with hard customers. You are where repeat customers will go, because you want to give them a reason to come back.
For some of us, our price is because we value good service but still want to get payed for our time. We want to give you the best, and not be too bitter or bankrupt to be able to do it again and again.
(13) Merchandising
If you need to flesh out your commission earnings, have a part time job and or an E-store. They take a bit of fluffing around to get up enough merch and getting the store part functional, but they're worth it! Thanks to etsy, Cafepress, Ka-blam, and many more Print On Demand merchandising websites, you don't even have to manage sales. Just advertise what you've got for sale and make money. You can make and sell T-shirts, prints, comics, clocks... even milk bottles. In fact there is a Tanka milk bottle in production as we speak. —w— It's just so easy these days that its not worth missing out on!
(14) Auctions
Auctions are amazing! As artists we are literally charging EXACTLY what the market will bare, and yet they catch more grief from customers than just flat out overpricing. Our customers might dislike the concept of having to pit-fight for what we offer, but no one is telling them to jump in the ring. I also see another use for auctions; they are one of the best ways to see what your going rate is! Not sure what to charge? Auction yourself off! That will tell you what the bulk of people are happy to pay for your services.
(15) Donations
Have a tips jar. Just go ahead and do it. Even if you never draw a day in your life. The internet is creating a world of democratic wealth encouraging people to be more awesome. So do it! Be more awesome and get more money. It's just so easy to do!
After 8 years floating around as a freelancer, I have personally worked with every kind of customer- from kids at carnivals and your standard FA goers, to million dollar companies and pro illustration companies. Pricing is a HARD thing to do! It takes market study and the ability to say no to bad deals.
There's a lot of opinions and advice out there, but before anything else there are three old rules that i put my faith in:
The law of supply and demand,
that ya gotta work to eat,
and that you cant fight human nature.
nai-chan regarding commission prices. Very informative and make a lot of clever points.(01) Introduction
(02) The first major issue
(03) Over pricing
(04) Why cant anyone get their prices right!?
(05) The going rate
(06) Skilled labor
(07) Underpricing,
(08) Hourly rate
(09) Price points
(10) A good price range
(11) Working for free
(12) Good customer service
(13) Merchandising
(14) Auctions
(15) Donations
(01) Introduction
It's a delicate subject to all of us here in the community and since I've been doing it for almost 8 years now, I thought I might share my thoughts! (I found out recently thanks to Coral checking my records I've had over 190 customers O)x(O~)
I've written, I think, 2 journals on the subject before, but in both journals I got some enlightened replies that made me take a step back and consider my stance on the matter. This time round I want to approach things as fairly as I can from both the perspective of a buyer and an artist.
(02) The first major issue,
The first thing I want to mention is that internet commissions are a new financial structure to the world of art. This means our expectations as sellers and buyers rarely match which will inevitably cause conflict! My first statement here is that, for buyers and sellers alike, we have to be patient while a workable standard makes its self clear.
The hard work here lies on the shoulders of the artist, as we are the price setters, and we either learn to make enough to survive, or we are forced to stop. If our brightest artists can't find ways to reimburse the time they spend working for the people on FA, they quit. End of story. But the artists on FA are testing new business models and pricing strictures all the time! As a customer, please don't be too aggressive with artists who are trying out new pricing models.
(03) Over pricing
Some people are pricing their works too high for the FA market. It can be really upsetting as a customer when something you were hyped to buy is out of your price range. (I bet we all remember the PS3 launch >w<) But unlike a big corporation, you're dealing with an individual and their whole career when you rage at them. They're just one person trying to see what works.
Your aggression is more likely to make our favorite artist leave than it is to make them change their prices. But you're not helpless, you can always vote with your wallet, and money talks! If their prices really are too high, they wont get enough customers to make ends meet. That means they make LESS money in the long run, and trust me, that will change their mind for them.
(04) Why cant anyone get their prices right!?
So why do some artists charge an ass load when others seem fine charging pocket change? Well, the difference between casual and professional pricing is if that artist is using FA to pay BILLS. But art forums and commissioning is available to every age, skill level, and country. This means it is almost impossible to enforce a standard price. I want artists and buyers alike to understand that this is infuriating to everyone, but that diversity is what makes net communities epic.
(05) The going rate
As you all know, many FA artists are new artists, hobbyist, people living with minimal bills (IE with Parents), and people living in countries with a good local to USD exchange rate. Low prices are a great way to establish your customer base and compete with the legions of established, high quality artists.
(06) Skilled labor
To all my talented artist friends who have studied for 5-10+ years to become the masters you are, those guys set the curve for this market and you're just gonna have to deal with it. People WILL compare your prices to theirs, and if you want to make a living on FA, accept that your gonna have to be AMAZINGLY clever about it.
But don't be discouraged! It's all a matter of time in to money out. Even our top tier artists can actually charge 5 bucks for something and make a good living, so long as it doesn't take them more than 5 bucks worth of time. I'm gonna get technical for a second and say, if you, as a professional artist, haven't sorted out your personal hourly rate, then you're in trouble. Making a living through your art means you're a self employed individual, and that makes you a business. Handle your business right and you'll do just fine.
And remember, for every Mc'Donalds, there is another restaurant with a name you can't pronounce charging big and doing fine. People WILL bitch! People will complain about Mc'D's service as much as they will complain about the price at a french restaurant. Just know where your services fall on the scale of parking lot to Marriott and make your price match.
(07) Underpricing,
So how do you know if you're underpricing? Easy answer- Take on your standard commission but know the exact number of hours actively spent working it took to get it into your customers hands. If those hours add up to less than minimum wage, you are under charging for your work. You are literally charging less than a dishwasher, or a parking attendant for what you do. If that's how much you value your time, be my guest.
But just think about the term Minimum wage, because it is literally the number of dollars per hour needed in a standard work day to meet minimum living standards in your country. A lot of well paid people put together that number in order to stop greedy employers from telling you that what you do is not worth a dime.
(08) Hourly rate
So whats a good rate then? Well, more number hassling than you can probably be bothered with. But a quick sloppy way to calculate it is to take your weekly rent, utilities, and grocery bills, add them together, then divide them by a 40 hour working week, and add that number to minimum wage. Working freelance on FA counts as self employment, so your bills count as overheads and the minimum wage is what you charge for the time you spent.
Though most of them are pretty complicated, there are much better and more accurate ways to calculate this number. Trust me when I say, you want to know your hourly rate. It is how you and others value the time you spend. Your hourly rate goes up or down depending on how much people want a piece of your time, and without it you can be pressured into working more or less for free by ANYONE.
(A more detailed calculation can be found here. vvv
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope.....uch-30158.html
Or do some google research, like typing in 'how to calculate what my hourly wage should be'. It really isn't that hard, but it is certainly worth it.)
(09) Price points
So uh, what do you charge then?
Good pricing is a combination of price points and market expectations.*adjusts glasses* Price points are numbers associated with the value of certain objects. It's about how a car is way cheep at 4,000 cause I expect to pay at least 10k, but a stereo system is expensive at 500 cause I know I can get a good one for 100 bucks.
Buyers on Fa know they can get a sketch for 15 dollars, a full color work for 30, and the works for about 50 from artists here. They know they can generally ask for whatever they want in terms of the picture too. (Draw me a 17 headed hydra with this exact Celtic pattern all over his body and don't forget his piercings and head-wings. PS no reference ...etc) But they don't usually expect to be particularly wowed by the service or final results. Commissions are almost always ref for RPs, so it just needs to be close enough to say 'like this but the artist got his tattoos wrong'.
There is room for the FA price points to shift however. Other people value their RP characters, so they want someone who will be careful with the details or some one who's style is just perfect! They also want good friendly service, or to be able to get involved somehow with the artist avatar. It's customers like that who aren't satisfied with 'take what you get' and want to 'get what they can pay for'.
(10) A good price range
There are all sorts of customers and wallet sizes on FA, so when choosing your price points, my advice is to mix it up and offer a range of products for everyone. I've found the safe prices are between 5-150 dollars. Charging lower than that on commissions has no profit and much higher numbers will catch flack.
I template all my commission types as tightly as I can so that my customer knows EXACTLY what they're getting, and because it saves me a lot of extra design work that isn't the character themselves. I build those templates off my preferred price marks i.e. 20,40,60,70,150. When I charge less than that, it's for something I'm mass producing (like the Puppy Love games at $5), and generally I'll use an auction if I think what I'm gonna do will be valued higher than that (Like the Puppy Love Auction slots).
(11) Working for free
I have very little to say here except this, working for free means slavery. If its WORK and someone isn't paying you, they better be your parents, cause there are laws against that, and for good reasons. I had different views on this once, but this is what I've come to now. Do all the gift art and colab's you like, it is a great way to strengthen bonds with people you like! The people who can offer you genuine opportunities in this industry are people who know it well enough to make money from it themselves. If they cant offer you honest pay for honest work, they honestly aren't worth your time.
(12) Good customer service
Stop me if you've heard this one before, 'a guy on FA still waiting for a commission they payed for 5 years ago. Once/If they ever get it, there are sorry's and excuses about time and all these other important things that came up.' Our market is rife with that kinda thing. The people who don't value their time enough to properly charge for it are usually the people who deliver the worst service. Unless the person said, 'this commission will take 5 years, are you okay with that?' there is no excuse for this kind of service.
But for people who do art as a hobby, their life isn't organized around doing things in a professional way. They don't have a space and part of the day allocated solely to serving FA members. Veteran commissioners know reliability is worth forking out for. Many having wasted 100's on one unreliable artist after another, in many cases never to even get what they payed for. It's part of why the odd commissionee will fork out meggabucks for someone with a good reputation.
If you want to be a full time FA commissioner, use customer service to your advantage. Your willingness to give FA a space in your house to draw, and a time slot from your day is a gift to commissioners everywhere. Why? Because its only that kind of commissioner who's page doesn't always say 'COMMISSIONS CLOSED', it's only you guys who deliver within a week, it's only you guys who feel its important to sort out comment drama, or work with hard customers. You are where repeat customers will go, because you want to give them a reason to come back.
For some of us, our price is because we value good service but still want to get payed for our time. We want to give you the best, and not be too bitter or bankrupt to be able to do it again and again.
(13) Merchandising
If you need to flesh out your commission earnings, have a part time job and or an E-store. They take a bit of fluffing around to get up enough merch and getting the store part functional, but they're worth it! Thanks to etsy, Cafepress, Ka-blam, and many more Print On Demand merchandising websites, you don't even have to manage sales. Just advertise what you've got for sale and make money. You can make and sell T-shirts, prints, comics, clocks... even milk bottles. In fact there is a Tanka milk bottle in production as we speak. —w— It's just so easy these days that its not worth missing out on!
(14) Auctions
Auctions are amazing! As artists we are literally charging EXACTLY what the market will bare, and yet they catch more grief from customers than just flat out overpricing. Our customers might dislike the concept of having to pit-fight for what we offer, but no one is telling them to jump in the ring. I also see another use for auctions; they are one of the best ways to see what your going rate is! Not sure what to charge? Auction yourself off! That will tell you what the bulk of people are happy to pay for your services.
(15) Donations
Have a tips jar. Just go ahead and do it. Even if you never draw a day in your life. The internet is creating a world of democratic wealth encouraging people to be more awesome. So do it! Be more awesome and get more money. It's just so easy to do!
After 8 years floating around as a freelancer, I have personally worked with every kind of customer- from kids at carnivals and your standard FA goers, to million dollar companies and pro illustration companies. Pricing is a HARD thing to do! It takes market study and the ability to say no to bad deals.
There's a lot of opinions and advice out there, but before anything else there are three old rules that i put my faith in:
The law of supply and demand,
that ya gotta work to eat,
and that you cant fight human nature.
