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Whats up with artists not accepting SL/trad refs?
10 years ago
"I do not accept refs from
SL, character generators, IMVU, 3D modells, traditional media, rendered, not basic (T) pose, chibi, stylized, text description, no backview, not signed by Obama and not danced on by 3 orphan kids"
and my favorite is the 'I only work from digital ref-sheet', which is basically saying all of the above.
I'm genuinely curious, why certain artist's can't work off of a perfectly visible and clear artwork, where the character say sits on a chair.
Like seriously, why is it a bad thing?
I do not believe you couldn't see the exact body-type (you are an artist who learns anatomy after all), or you could just ask...
And the worst is that this is so much of a standard, 2 people confessed to me not long ago they didn't order anything from me, because they didn't have proper ref-sheets.
(to clear it, I accept every kinds of ref-sheets, text description up to 700 words (that's a lot of text already), I only ask it's SFW)
When I'm not sure about the character, I throw together a sketchy semi-refsheet for a few dollars, sometimes free (depends on how complex the character is), as extra service to my commissions. That's just my solution
Have you had any experience with artist's like these, or are you one yourself?
(To clear it, I don't judge or anything, I'm just really confused here)
SL, character generators, IMVU, 3D modells, traditional media, rendered, not basic (T) pose, chibi, stylized, text description, no backview, not signed by Obama and not danced on by 3 orphan kids"
and my favorite is the 'I only work from digital ref-sheet', which is basically saying all of the above.
I'm genuinely curious, why certain artist's can't work off of a perfectly visible and clear artwork, where the character say sits on a chair.
Like seriously, why is it a bad thing?
I do not believe you couldn't see the exact body-type (you are an artist who learns anatomy after all), or you could just ask...
And the worst is that this is so much of a standard, 2 people confessed to me not long ago they didn't order anything from me, because they didn't have proper ref-sheets.
(to clear it, I accept every kinds of ref-sheets, text description up to 700 words (that's a lot of text already), I only ask it's SFW)
When I'm not sure about the character, I throw together a sketchy semi-refsheet for a few dollars, sometimes free (depends on how complex the character is), as extra service to my commissions. That's just my solution
Have you had any experience with artist's like these, or are you one yourself?
(To clear it, I don't judge or anything, I'm just really confused here)
There's so many free base ref sheets people can fill in that using an SL reference makes no sense (because of aforementioned problems).
But I totally get that colors can't be difficult for some folks. Hrm... I only want to help folks. xD
Others do because they're perfectionists and they need what they need.
Example: A misplaced spot on a cheetah character doesn't bother me so long as the artist gets the main concept down.
It's frustrating too because sometimes I have ref sheets in the works and artists that have limited commission spots won't hold one (even though I offer to pay full in advance).
But I guess that's the beauty of being an artist? You can pick and choose sometimes.
The results I've gotten also say you are wrong. If I say someone's stripes run up their back like a river system (mouth at the base of the tail), I get something that looks pretty good. When I tried to draw it out because the artist insisted like you are, I got a horrible looking thing that was a very close copy of the horrible drawing I managed to do despite repeatedly saying it was only the concept and was a terrible representation of what I meant.
Maybe you, personally, can manage to take a terrible reference and turn it into what the non-artist meant, but there are plenty of artists out there that can't and don't even know it.
Nothing in my statement was about what an artist wanted up front or the kind of references demanded up front.
I was told to draw that when the work was half done and already paid for. She didn't even try to draw from the description that was fine when she accepted the commission. If I had been been told up front I she needed a visual would have had no problem with it because I would have known to go elsewhere.
It was bad business. It's also completely irrelevant to the point I was making and you knew I was making.
I was disagreeing with your statement that no artistic skill was required to produce a useable reference because of all the blanks available. I paid for proof your belief is wrong at least some of the time.
I doubt it was personal, and it isn't bad business because at least they doublechecked with you and wanted to be sure it was correct. The artist could have just went along with it, screwed it up, and then you would probably be complaining that they didn't do it right. :/
You really think it's acceptable to demand halfway threw that new references be produced after you agree to a commission? Isn't part of your job as the artist to make sure you can do what the commission demands with what you are given before accepting payment for it? Or at least give the non-artist on the other end a sketch to work with if you need clarification?
Commissioning is NOT just on the artist. It is up to YOU, as the client, to be specific and to work with the artist to make sure they can deliver what you ask for. If it's such an inconvenience for you to work with artists, then you probably should invest in a ref sheet so you don't face this issue with others.
How am I supposed to get a ref sheet without having an artist actually work from only a description when I can not draw?
At some point there has to be a first piece and that has to be from only a description.
If you are told it's only a description, given the description, accept a commission knowing there is no art, it is not fair to the commissioner to turn around and demand a drawn ref half way threw. Whether it's an official ref sheet or not, you are told you are doing the first drawing by the nature of the reference (text only). If you can't work that way, you should not accept those commissions.
If you can't draw something without visuals, don't claim that you can.
If you claim you can draw from only a description, make sure you actually can.
And maybe actually read the description before accepting a commission to make sure you can do it.
I'm up front in what I have and want. I expect an artist to be the same.
I'm honestly not sure why you see it as such a bother, them providing a sketch wouldn't have made a difference if they kept having to go back and edit it a dozen times because they don't understand the visual that you might have in your head. This goes to what I was saying below about why some artists will only accept real ref sheets. Everyone has a different idea and sees things differently, you can't expect other people to imagine or see things exactly the same.
But yes, I fully agree that many artists should and do demand clean references. I never contended that.
I do contend that if you knowingly accept a text-only reference, it is your responsibility to be sure you can actually do it before you start. Whether that is making sure you understand what is being said or an agreement on how much it costs per revision, it is your job to take the words and make it into a drawing. That is what you are being paid to do in that case. Knowing your limits and needs is part of your job.
Every artist is going to do things differently, it doesn't make someone unprofessional or a bad artist to request clarity.
This is just my solution, but if I get a description like "rivers for markings", I do a few sketches of what I imagine of that pattern, and ask the commissioner to link me some images that resemble their idea, if they can.
But asking the commissioner to draw it... umm, they pay me to do it?
It shouldn't be forgotten the the artist's job is to translate other's imagination into 2D visual imagery. If an artist makes the commissioner do the job, what exactly are they getting paid for?
SL "refs" are a huge pain, tried it once, the details are hard to see in a lot of cases so there was a lot of editting, so I would be fine with this one not being accepted, but for me anything that clearly shows the colors and body type of the character would be fine. I would say text references are okay, but I don't want a paragraph, I would much rather have key point descriptions.
Im colour-blind and I approve this comment +1
(I have a hard time with red balance)
worst case I ask the commissioner if the colors are alright. I can edit any colors easily anyway, I'm good with Photoshop luckily
SL/IMVU screenshots can be incredibly difficult to interpret due to the lighting/coloring of the avatar/add-ons euipped or whatever.
People can see the colors/patterns differently [Just remember the blue/black dress craze lol] and a commissioner may be dissatisfied with the way you drew out the character based on what you could see [I've had one of these].
Tradtional References imo are not a problem unless it is difficult to see due to the image being taken by a camera, or the quality is just rather difficult to interpret [had plenty of these as well before].
Also theory.
they only want the people that can afford nice pretty refs therfore they can afford the pricy art.
SL amd Shaded Referance are a pain in the butt to pin colors even if it has a palette.
Ex: Literally yesterday I worked with
http://www.furaffinity.net/full/16418370/
Now there are 2 very similar shades of grey which on the ref due to texturing and shading is a pain to clearly pick out what goes where.
pay in mind yes I can figure it out its just a "bother" for some artists.
Now I did see someone get rejected with a Blk&Wht SL Referance which I found unreasonable since although shaded it was literally black and white.
Drawn sheets get rejected just because some artists don't feel like having someone complain when the color is incorrect due to phote quality or lighting.
This I sort of encountered. The drawing was black and red in photo but actually blue and yellow. (The dress all over again XD)
But I was given digital swatches.
In short. No one wants to be bothered XD
I take everything but text only descriptions. With drawn my policy is give me digital colors or don't complain.
I'm colorblind, I mess up color big time constantly, and I don't think I ever got complained about it.
why would I? The rendering itself changes the fur-color visually. the lights on your scene change the color. WHY would anyone pick on an artistic take on the shading? that doesn't make sense...
if thy don't get it, then I would offer a paid revision where I modify it.
if they touched my art without my permission, I would report and blacklist them from my service for life. depending on their attitude put them on AB. That is violation of my rights as an artist, wouldn't take it lightly.
the exploitation of people there is common, and nightmare clients are almost normal. Sweet client like most of the furries are rare gems.
For me before 2013 clients who got angry over everything and knew everything better was a standard T.T I hated it so much
And people will complain about anything lol. Colors would be an issue mostly on flats
But some artists won't accept those either.
Like if there's an artist that tends to draw canine like muzzles on a lot of things, but then the character turns out to be a rabbit and you drew it like a dog because you couldn't tell because of the first artist's style of drawing. (If that makes sense ;m;)
Like I said, I don't really require a reference sheet I'm just kind of explaining why other people might. x3
not basic (T) pose- 'odd' poses can hide markings, or contort them or something (idk, i find the standard t-pose boring honestly)
chibi, stylized- basically impossible to tell body type, and markings can be hard with chibis since the proportions are way off. i had to work off of a chibi ref sheet once, i detest them now.
text description- a lot of people are not very good at writing clear descriptions, or they'll leave info out; plus it's up to interpretation, which could mean many edits or a disappointed commissioner
no backview- i don't get the point of this unless it's a commission showing the backside of the character and it's not on the ref. if it's a typical front-view commission, i don't get it at all.
basically, it's all going to take a lot of time and back-and-forth with the commissioner, which a lot of people probably don't want to deal with because "time is money".
as artist, I look over the info I got, sort it, and question everything I need.
If there was something I could not count on, it was clearly the commissioner's fault, and thus i require an extra fee for the revision (but I get the extra money, so I don't mind)
for very complex designs where there is only text description, I just do a quick and dirty sketch to see if we are on the same page. it's not a problem for me, they get extra art, we surely got the same idea, everyone is happy
and i've done similar myself when presented with text descriptions.
But of course there are exceptions to the rule.
But gosh, It's easier to get marking of SL screen than on full coloured refsheet sometimes! (though I work with everything, sometimes I'm afraid to do error due to colouring =( )
(Well I can't work with just descritption here, cause my english isn't good for that, but eyh, at least people get a ref, even free base / SL or whatever! ^v^ )
Note: the character anatomy in general is also often unreadable, if a artist realy tryed following such a ref meticulously the resulting drawing would have a character with alot of sharp and odd corners and edges that shouldn't be there.
Note: The refsheet is here: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/15673006/
and my 'sona's current appearance is in my icon (Note the hair)
AH SUCH A BIG CHANGE THAT'S IMPOSSIBRU