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Okay, lets try this again, with clarity: Cub
9 years ago
Okay then. I had some time to think about this and consider this subject and topic further. My last journal apparently, somehow, brought about the disposal of some of my friends due to the viciousness of my words and particularly intolerant, crusader-like approach. Ill be honest i expected to more people to agree with me than tell me that i was handling it improperly but i think i see the point now. So Ill try again and explain in detail with less fire and brimstone and more logic and explanation. And i might as well say, yea i was being a dick. So lets begin.
My reasoning as to why cub is not okay is because even if it is specified to fantasy with animals instead of real human children, the anatomy of a furry child is more or less the same as a human child. This would make it easier for a brain to psychologically generalize the kink from furry children to human children. The scenarios, the paraphernalia, anatomy, all that, can be generalized and expanded. And, as i expressed in this link ( https://youtu.be/LQYChghOkQc?t=5m37s ), that sort of thing can escalate. Now i don't think that someone who casually enjoys cub is absolutely going to forgo their morality and become a pedophile, but i think that they shouldn't even allow themselves to develop that attraction further. I understand that people might be unable to control their attraction as the nature of fetishes is fickle, but when it comes to cub, they should seek help and counseling with suppressing and/or eliminating that attraction. They should not be fantasizing about it, commissioning and jacking off to it. And people should not be telling them its okay to be into it for the sake of tolerance and acceptance. There has to come a point when enough is enough. Its not just about tolerance for peoples sexual tastes anymore, it becomes a moral issue about not propagating something that has the potential to cause serious harm to someone. Even if cub just escalates to nothing more than cp, its still harmful because children are still being victimized and the viewers themselves is subjecting themselves to arrest, imprisonment and social banishment. This subject cannot be accepted or ignored for the sake of tolerance, if one wants to handle it tactfully, then it needs to be politely, but firmly and unambiguously made clear that it is not okay. And if people who like cub want to change and suppress it, then they deserve understanding and the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, i think they need to be called out.
And another thing, some people want to say I shouldn't judge people for their kinks and want to compare cub and fetishes like vore and such as if they are on the same level. There is a huge difference. Honestly i think its stupidly ignorant to think that there is a similar moral dilemma. Yes, cannibalism does exist, yes there are many cases of it, along with pedophilia and child pornography which is a huge black market industry. However the difference is that there are alot more instances of sexual injustices against children (an entire goddamn market!) then lust-filled instances of cannibalism. And yes one may reason that just because one happens more than the other does not mean that one is more immoral than the other. However, with a vore fetish, even in the fantasy scenario where its fatal and hard vore, there is no permanent loss because its just a goddamn fantasy and its usually between two horny adults who, more or less, know what they are doing. And while someone might actually get off to the idea of eating another living/or non living creature or being eaten themselves, most people who enjoy vore don't actually want it to escalate to the point where they actually consume another person. However vore might escalate to where they might swollow a goldfish or a live snake but ive only heard of a few instances of that and people eat livestock anyway so unless your a vegan, there is no real moral issue (well maybe animal cruelty). People who like vore wouldnt even want to deal with the repercussions of engaging in cannibalism because for the most part, even if they eat some of it, its hard to hide a fucking body or a couple of bodies and people generally notice when someone is missing. In essence, there are legal repercussions. I might be going off track but to wrap it up, with cub and the possibility of it escalating into cp and pedophilia, while there are legal reprocussions, most people who engage in it in real life go to other countries where there is no statute against it (Like Jared Fogle did), they might abuse their own children and for the most part keep them from talking about it and etc. and you know, its worse than canibalism because atleast with cannibalism you are dead. dead people dont have to live the rest of their lives dealing with the emotional and psychological repercussions of having their very essence violated and innocence stolen. And if i was more awake i would probably be able to strengthen my argument a little more on why there is a difference between cub and literally EVERY OTHER FETISH, but for now i will just say, dont fucking tell me that they are on the same level.
Now if my logic or organization is even a little bit off, its because im spending an hour writing this without an outline, without anything more than a brainstorm session mostly because i dont think i should spending three days planning this out like a goddamn thesis paper because i shouldn't even have to fucking clarify at all! And i dont think i should be treated as if im intolerant because i think there is a limit to what should be acceptable. Have you met me? Im like the most goddamn tolerant motherfucker i know. Whats my cutoff? Cub and pedophelia. Thats it. Do you like incest? are they both 18+? fine. have at it. I dont care. Do you like snuff? do you keep it a fantasy? Fine, have at it. Do you like watersports? Did you wash your hands? Fine, have fun. Adult babies? All i heard was adult so do what ever the fuck you want.
Yes, maybe i was a vicious asshole in my last journal and maybe i shouldn't have acted that way, im just surprised at how its a controvercy when considering the subject. Some just didnt like the way i handled it but agreed that cub isnt cool. Others want to say that those people have a condition and im attacking them for it. Okay, if they are engaging in it and letting it build, its on them. Like i said, if they try to suppress it, then i empathize with them in their struggle to control themselves, but when they freely allow themselves to engage in it and think its okay, then its not appropriate to treat them as if they have a "condition". It kind of reminds me of back when the Newtown shooting happened and one of my (now former) friends wanted to empathize with the shooter and tell me im an asshole for wishing that child killing cunt was in hell with a hot iron up his ass. Yea, maybe he had mental issues but he threw away any ability for any rational human being to have empathy for him when he decided to take his frustration out on innocent children. There are circumstances where its okay to have "sympathy for the devil" but like i said before, there has to be a limit and a line that cannot be crossed, when someone has to say that its not okay. Now i dont think that people who casually enjoy cub are as bad as a school shooter, but why does anyone feel the need to defend them? If they are supressing and trying to deal with it, thats one thing, but if they engage in it and express their fetish and fantasy, then its not okay, even if it doestn go anything beyond fantasy. There is no rational reason for someone to defend someone who is actively and happily engaging in a highly immoral act.
I remember now that one of my now happily ex-friends told me once that they enjoyed cub sometimes and that i wouldn't be afraid to try it if i could get past the negative social connotation. Wow, really? Thank god we're not friends anymore. Its not about whether its socially acceptable, its about the fact that it is IMMORAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. and to put it as ONLY a social issue instead of a moral issue is frankly....well i dont want to be vicious so ill just say it is ignorant.
And to close, why the controversy? Honestly, only a few people responded back about it but im sure more people read it and had their own opinion about it. with all the people who were talking about how poorly i handled it, i ask them this: If someone who had themselves been sexually abused as a child or had someone in their family sexually abused said any of the stuff i said, would you feel the need to play devil's advocate? Would you blame me? Maybe i was just venting and i was being hateful and vicious concerning a topic that most people i know dont enjoy, but i didnt expect it to escalate and for people to feel the need to butt heads with me on it. Not all of it was about the subject matter however, some of it was concern over the way i handle things and i think that some of those people were reasonably concerned ABOUT ME and i respect and understand that. Regardless this entire journal is a in depth, impromptu, clarification.
I have the right to my opinion and you have the right to judge me for it. All im asking is that you honestly think very careful about it and your own values and the extent of your understanding of morality and tolerance. Maybe i should curb how i handle a subject and how i present my opinions, but i HONESTLY didnt expect it to be a controversy. Regardless i said what i needed to and if need be, ill clarify further in the comments.
Edit: I deleted the other Journal in which i was vicious because 1). I think this journal is a better take on the subject 2). to protect the identities of those involved 3) because it was kind of a dick move journal. If you would like to know exactly what i said, just take what i said here, condense it, add the words fuck and cunt for flavor and you might be able to imagine.
My reasoning as to why cub is not okay is because even if it is specified to fantasy with animals instead of real human children, the anatomy of a furry child is more or less the same as a human child. This would make it easier for a brain to psychologically generalize the kink from furry children to human children. The scenarios, the paraphernalia, anatomy, all that, can be generalized and expanded. And, as i expressed in this link ( https://youtu.be/LQYChghOkQc?t=5m37s ), that sort of thing can escalate. Now i don't think that someone who casually enjoys cub is absolutely going to forgo their morality and become a pedophile, but i think that they shouldn't even allow themselves to develop that attraction further. I understand that people might be unable to control their attraction as the nature of fetishes is fickle, but when it comes to cub, they should seek help and counseling with suppressing and/or eliminating that attraction. They should not be fantasizing about it, commissioning and jacking off to it. And people should not be telling them its okay to be into it for the sake of tolerance and acceptance. There has to come a point when enough is enough. Its not just about tolerance for peoples sexual tastes anymore, it becomes a moral issue about not propagating something that has the potential to cause serious harm to someone. Even if cub just escalates to nothing more than cp, its still harmful because children are still being victimized and the viewers themselves is subjecting themselves to arrest, imprisonment and social banishment. This subject cannot be accepted or ignored for the sake of tolerance, if one wants to handle it tactfully, then it needs to be politely, but firmly and unambiguously made clear that it is not okay. And if people who like cub want to change and suppress it, then they deserve understanding and the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, i think they need to be called out.
And another thing, some people want to say I shouldn't judge people for their kinks and want to compare cub and fetishes like vore and such as if they are on the same level. There is a huge difference. Honestly i think its stupidly ignorant to think that there is a similar moral dilemma. Yes, cannibalism does exist, yes there are many cases of it, along with pedophilia and child pornography which is a huge black market industry. However the difference is that there are alot more instances of sexual injustices against children (an entire goddamn market!) then lust-filled instances of cannibalism. And yes one may reason that just because one happens more than the other does not mean that one is more immoral than the other. However, with a vore fetish, even in the fantasy scenario where its fatal and hard vore, there is no permanent loss because its just a goddamn fantasy and its usually between two horny adults who, more or less, know what they are doing. And while someone might actually get off to the idea of eating another living/or non living creature or being eaten themselves, most people who enjoy vore don't actually want it to escalate to the point where they actually consume another person. However vore might escalate to where they might swollow a goldfish or a live snake but ive only heard of a few instances of that and people eat livestock anyway so unless your a vegan, there is no real moral issue (well maybe animal cruelty). People who like vore wouldnt even want to deal with the repercussions of engaging in cannibalism because for the most part, even if they eat some of it, its hard to hide a fucking body or a couple of bodies and people generally notice when someone is missing. In essence, there are legal repercussions. I might be going off track but to wrap it up, with cub and the possibility of it escalating into cp and pedophilia, while there are legal reprocussions, most people who engage in it in real life go to other countries where there is no statute against it (Like Jared Fogle did), they might abuse their own children and for the most part keep them from talking about it and etc. and you know, its worse than canibalism because atleast with cannibalism you are dead. dead people dont have to live the rest of their lives dealing with the emotional and psychological repercussions of having their very essence violated and innocence stolen. And if i was more awake i would probably be able to strengthen my argument a little more on why there is a difference between cub and literally EVERY OTHER FETISH, but for now i will just say, dont fucking tell me that they are on the same level.
Now if my logic or organization is even a little bit off, its because im spending an hour writing this without an outline, without anything more than a brainstorm session mostly because i dont think i should spending three days planning this out like a goddamn thesis paper because i shouldn't even have to fucking clarify at all! And i dont think i should be treated as if im intolerant because i think there is a limit to what should be acceptable. Have you met me? Im like the most goddamn tolerant motherfucker i know. Whats my cutoff? Cub and pedophelia. Thats it. Do you like incest? are they both 18+? fine. have at it. I dont care. Do you like snuff? do you keep it a fantasy? Fine, have at it. Do you like watersports? Did you wash your hands? Fine, have fun. Adult babies? All i heard was adult so do what ever the fuck you want.
Yes, maybe i was a vicious asshole in my last journal and maybe i shouldn't have acted that way, im just surprised at how its a controvercy when considering the subject. Some just didnt like the way i handled it but agreed that cub isnt cool. Others want to say that those people have a condition and im attacking them for it. Okay, if they are engaging in it and letting it build, its on them. Like i said, if they try to suppress it, then i empathize with them in their struggle to control themselves, but when they freely allow themselves to engage in it and think its okay, then its not appropriate to treat them as if they have a "condition". It kind of reminds me of back when the Newtown shooting happened and one of my (now former) friends wanted to empathize with the shooter and tell me im an asshole for wishing that child killing cunt was in hell with a hot iron up his ass. Yea, maybe he had mental issues but he threw away any ability for any rational human being to have empathy for him when he decided to take his frustration out on innocent children. There are circumstances where its okay to have "sympathy for the devil" but like i said before, there has to be a limit and a line that cannot be crossed, when someone has to say that its not okay. Now i dont think that people who casually enjoy cub are as bad as a school shooter, but why does anyone feel the need to defend them? If they are supressing and trying to deal with it, thats one thing, but if they engage in it and express their fetish and fantasy, then its not okay, even if it doestn go anything beyond fantasy. There is no rational reason for someone to defend someone who is actively and happily engaging in a highly immoral act.
I remember now that one of my now happily ex-friends told me once that they enjoyed cub sometimes and that i wouldn't be afraid to try it if i could get past the negative social connotation. Wow, really? Thank god we're not friends anymore. Its not about whether its socially acceptable, its about the fact that it is IMMORAL AND UNACCEPTABLE. and to put it as ONLY a social issue instead of a moral issue is frankly....well i dont want to be vicious so ill just say it is ignorant.
And to close, why the controversy? Honestly, only a few people responded back about it but im sure more people read it and had their own opinion about it. with all the people who were talking about how poorly i handled it, i ask them this: If someone who had themselves been sexually abused as a child or had someone in their family sexually abused said any of the stuff i said, would you feel the need to play devil's advocate? Would you blame me? Maybe i was just venting and i was being hateful and vicious concerning a topic that most people i know dont enjoy, but i didnt expect it to escalate and for people to feel the need to butt heads with me on it. Not all of it was about the subject matter however, some of it was concern over the way i handle things and i think that some of those people were reasonably concerned ABOUT ME and i respect and understand that. Regardless this entire journal is a in depth, impromptu, clarification.
I have the right to my opinion and you have the right to judge me for it. All im asking is that you honestly think very careful about it and your own values and the extent of your understanding of morality and tolerance. Maybe i should curb how i handle a subject and how i present my opinions, but i HONESTLY didnt expect it to be a controversy. Regardless i said what i needed to and if need be, ill clarify further in the comments.
Edit: I deleted the other Journal in which i was vicious because 1). I think this journal is a better take on the subject 2). to protect the identities of those involved 3) because it was kind of a dick move journal. If you would like to know exactly what i said, just take what i said here, condense it, add the words fuck and cunt for flavor and you might be able to imagine.
Here's the....dilemma for lack of a better word though; does fantasised cub porn make a person LESS likely to do it in real life (i.e. they relieve their urges through fantasy) or MORE likely (as you say, the line is blurred between reality and fantasy.) I couldn't really tell - only way would be to experiment on it which for obvious reasons isn't gonna be done. I would say though that if their lives revolve around these urges (honestly that's the same for sex in general, never mind fetishes) then that's seriously unhealthy - ESPECIALLY if they really do think that real life pedophilia is nothing more than a stigma.
On the other hand...say you're NOT a furry and are a pedo - there's your own fantasies then...then what, pictures of real children? That crosses the line - sorta an invasion of privacy for whoever that child might be. Pictures of them? That's....still too close to reality - ehh, it's a tough one. Thing is the last thing I want to be is a hypocrite (I'm into some weird shit myself) but the fact is, this is something that should NEVER be acted on and perhaps the most widely taboo fetish that IS acted on. That being said I have had fantasies (not cub/pedo) that I have been ashamed to have despite it turning me on and I have for the most part avoided thinking about it but that's with having fantasies I'm okay with
It's actually why despite my loving it so much I'm kinda....ehhhh...about openly liking feral dog farts. Furry farts - well, that's just fantasy but the former transfers into real life and if someone was to ever find out about all these kinks of mine that'd be the one thing I probably couldn't really explain well.
I hope I've explained myself well enough here, it's kinda a morbidly interesting thing to think about. Here's an interesting article that might be of interest though - http://www.salon.com/2015/09/21/im_.....not_a_monster/
As far as empathy, some try to see all sides of a situation if there are any to be seen. Others feel sympathy for those that don't choose to embrace it and hate themselves because they feel the world is judging them for simply existing. For some it's a combination of both. Empathy isn't a bad thing, it's arguably one of the most important if not the most important requirement for any type of counselor be they a school counselor a religious leader or a psychiatrist. Because if you can't trust those people who can you turn to for help?
Concerning what I'd say to someone if they were the victim of an assult if it were someone I cared about I'd advise them to seek counseling because such anger and ferocity is self destructive. In time I'd try to help them understand that while what was done to them is inexcusable those that want to change and haven't hurt anyone are victims of their own mind and don't deserve to be hounded until death seems like a long lost friend. I can't go into details because of a promise I made almost 10 years ago to the only person I've "liked" but I may or may not know a victim of such actions and my stance remains the same despite this.
Funnily enough, though your post is so long, it can be debunked in three or so words.
It lacks objectivity.
No one should care about your personal opinions of their fetishes. You didn't state any facts, you simply highlighted them with more opinions.
I however, can counter you easily, with facts. You said "Do you like snuff? do you keep it a fantasy? Fine, have at it."
Lets consider the snuff person and the paedophile person both escalate and practice their fetishes in reality.
The murderer will get 25 to life if he is caught.
The paedophile will get around 12 years.
Our law system has agreed that murder is worse and should get a harsher penalty than child molestation.
Cub porn also gets all the arguments you gave all the other fetishes (most people don't practice it in reality, it is largely fantasy based and in most cases the cub is able to enjoy themselves which a real child would never be able to do, etc.). The only thing you have is that you think it's more wrong and that that is self-evident, but I will you I'd much rather see cub porn where the characters are enjoying themselves than snuff porn or hard vore.