ITS HYPE SON

A grass ghost? That... is terrible. While the typing is fine on it's own, it was a grass flying, of which there were only two others and only one that was any good (tropious and jumpluff). I'm quite disappointed.

It drops the 4x weakness to Ice though. I kinda like it. Totally unexpected.

Yeah but ice types are a joke in the first place.

You'd be surprised how many off types use Ice beam. Especially with what the XY Players use along with the previous starters.

Don't try to reason with him.

Just let him have his opinions.

I know and people should celebrate that this is THE FIRST GHOST TYPE STARTER like holy balls guys lol.

I'm not angry that it's a ghost/grass. I'm angry that the typing is a bait and switch from what it starts as.

This means that it's a flying/grass for it's first two forms, meaning you get flying moves for STAB, but then when it evolves, you throw out all the flying moves for ghost moves for STAB and suddenly have a completely different table of elements you need to worry about. I mean, i guess it's not vulnerable to rock now, but now it's vulnerable to dark and ghost.

And as I said, the typing isn't bad, treevanant and gourgeist are monsters that are hard to take down, I'm just upset that the vision of "flying around the islands on my starter grass pokemon" is no longer a possibility as Fly will probably not be a good move to keep with it.

... Not that it'll stop me from leaving fly with it.

Now that just sounds like a nitpick

Maybe? i think one of the only other dual type starters from the get go is Bulbasaur as a grass/poison.

And I am possibly being a bit overly harsh as this was a surprise I wasn't ready for and i don't know how to intemperate it just yet.

Forgive me.

It looks like HMs have been removed and replaced with Pokeride, so you wouldn't be flying around on it anyway. Instead you call a Charizard to fly on, which will hopefully work like Lati@s from ORAS.

I sure hope those haven't replaced HMs. I mean, I am okay with them as being an alternative but I don't like the idea of not moving around with your own pokemon.

I think it fits better but some of us expected ground type to be either involved with this or the fire starter so its more disappointing on that notion than finding grass flying being ousted for how many fucking players use pokemon with at least one ice attack. That said I love this grass starter even more.

Also you may wanna dial back on the negativity.

theres also the possibility of it having better stats to balance the weaknesses out
as it seems they try working on having the game more balanced

I just think he's just too negative about things.

I think Decideueye is all about the "You can't hit what's not there." Kind of deal.

there should be like some stat that makes a pokemon more or less easier to dodge

I REALLY hope they re-buff steel then as it's lack of shielding to ghost and dark renders any and all phychic/steel types utterly useless due to the non stop onslaught of shadowball from VERY pokemon in existence.

Steel types aren't useless in the slightest. They still have loads of resistances even though they lost dark and psychic resist. In fact the only steel types that took a huge blow from the nerfs were Metagross, Jirachi and Bronzong. Most of the other steel types dont care and still function perfectly fine.

Solgaleo is a steel/psychic.

Also, a lot of people forgot that steel/psychic wasn't resistant to ghost/dark, it was just neutral, which was still pretty devastating.

I think a lot of people also forget how useless steel types are vs water and electric types as steel moves don't work well against them and water/electricity will punch through their defenses no problem. I feel the nerfing of steel vs dark/ghost was the creators and players completely spacing this fact.

Okay, now you just sound like a Steel fanboy. Steel has 10! resistances and an immunity. It resists over half the types in the game, is completely immune to poison (which happens to be one of the only other counters to "bulky" types) and has only 3 weaknesses. It's meant to be a defensive typing, and is still way stronger than any other defensive type. Yes, it sucks offensively, but it absolutely DID need that nerf. I'd say it's still OP.

I AM a steel fanboy (yet I hate lucario. go figure).

And yes, steel resists a lot, but it was good against all of two things, rock and ice. Rock types are often part ground, which you DON'T send steel against, and Ice types are frequently part water, which you DON'T put steel out against.

Also, in terms of weakness, a big oversight is that most steel types lack special defense. Steel is also not resistant to electricity or water. A half decent slowbro or electivire would DESTROY a metagross without the metagross having anything it could do in return.

Sure they buffed steel to be good against fairy, but the most common fairy, gardevoir, is ALWAYS taught shadow ball, bolsters MASSIVE special attack, and was STILL prone to oneshotting metagross with it when it was a neutral attack, but now? Pfft, metagross doesn't get an attack off unless you literally have it as Bulletpunch: the pokemon, which is telling me the pokemon is broken down so badly it is good for nothing more than the one move.

I blame Bronzong for the nerf steel got. What should have happened was bronzong being forced to ONLY have ONE ability instead of this crippling shot to the whole steel table.

Oh no, steel types have some weaknesses and can't just crush everything? You're right, we should buff them so that nothing can go against them... Like even look at your complaint. Steel type is so powerful that a steel type's biggest weakness comes from its other typing having weaknesses, because it has so few on its own.

Like seriously, steel types are overpowered defensively. 2/3 of their weaknesses are almost exclusively physical attackers, and since steel types generally have really high defense, they can often take a super-effective attack better than non-steel types can take a neutral one. So what if they have sucky special defense if it's still resisted or neutral to most of them anyway?

Metagross is still OU, even without his mega. You can slap an assault vest on him and he's still useable just because of how bulky he is.

And as much as you're complaining about his "lack [of] special defense", Metagross has a whopping 90 base Sp. D. on top of 130 Defense and 80 HP with a still really high 135 Attack. And that's BEFORE he mega evolves. He's an absolute powerhouse.

This is honestly the whiniest thing I've ever heard. The only way it could get worse is if you complained that Rayquaza should get STAB on Extremespeed.

Metagross is in a fair (arguably too good) position right now. The nerfs to steel were totally justified, especially since it was buffed offensively and defensively with the introduction of fairies.

I said in another comment that I DON;T factor mega evolutions and that metagross' mega was to make up for the board wide steel nerf.

I just don't like that something that has been staple for 6-7 generations is suddenly changed because some twat in a tournament found a loophole abuse.

And, as I pointed out, it has amazing stats BEFORE mega evolution, and is still usable with an assault vest instead of a mega stone. Even the "bad special defense" stat you keep complaining about is higher than most other Pokémon. He needed the nerf. Steel in general having 12 resists and an immunity is frankly terrible balance. Even nerfing it to 10 is too high and should be nerfed again.

Like I said, complaining about Metagross is only barely a step above complaining about a Rayquaza having weaknesses. Metagross isn't unusable, and can still be used without its mega no problem. Frankly, you seem like you'd only be happy if Metagross had no weaknesses and could beat everything single-handedly. He's still OU, for pity's sake. He's far from awful just because a small handful of Pokémon can now actually do damage to him. Steel-types overall still dominate defensive positions in the game because even with removing 2 resists, they still have double what other types do. Add burn, and they're basically untouchable by physical attackers.

Yes, their weakness is that they generally are weak against special attacks, but if they weren't, then they'd just be good at everything.

How would you do it without making them OP?

Metagross is naturally vulnerable to fire and ground based attacks, neutral strikes come from dark, ghost, fighting, bug, water, and electricity. Of those, fire, ghost, water, and electricity are primarily special attack based. These techniques are more than enough to put a metagross under. A decent Slowbro will brick a normal metagross as a metagross learns nothing that could naturally be good against a slowbro while the slowbro would very easily punish the lower special def stat and it's average HP stat.

In comparison, Dragonite, who has been around since day 1, is naturally vulnerable to dragon, rock, fairy, and x4 vulnerable to ice, yet also boasts an immunity to ground. It also resists fire, water, grass, fighting, and bug while the rest are neutral and it's stat pool is all huge across the charts with it's lowest stat being Speed at 80.

Dragons got the Fairy type added to the mix since the general type was OP. The dragon type was not changed, rather a new type was added that dragon doesn't work against.

Dragon wasn't weakened for it's resistances or it's attack power, instead they brought something new to the table.

Steel was actually fine and anyone who used steel types in the long run suffered from EVERY opponent having earthquake and some fire move, but also that special attacks would wreck you and you couldn't do shit to water or electric types and you NEVER got to use steel attacks in an offensive way and have them being super effective. you broke neutral all day long.

What I'm saying is that metagross was tough, but not broken and I never wanted it to be buffed. i never wanted it to get a mega form. Gamefreak nerfed the defenses of steep types and now that shadow ball that would destroy a metagross? it WILL OHKO the metagross. no discussion. It's speed is nor stellar (70), neither is it's special defense (90) or HP (80). So instead of, oh, I dunno, changing bronzong's abilities, they did an across the board nerf and found out metagross was completely OUT of the tournament play because of this flaw, so instead of thinking harder on the subject, just gave it a mega form and called it a day, which was fucking lazy as shit.

Also, you keep talking about metagross being OP, has Slowbro been banned from tournaments yet? if not, look up "funbro" matches. Longest one I saw went for somewhere around 700-1,000 turns on the first two pokemon and the Funbro won via the opponent quitting and not having lost a single pokemon.

Dragon only resists 4 types, and is only supereffective against 1 (itself). It's not nearly as strong a type as steel. It was neutral to a lot of types, so it is good offensively, but not as good as steel is defensively. In fact, it's ironic that you complain steel is "only" neutral most of the time, but you're comparing to dragon which is almost never more than neutral.

Funbro is banned in any format worth playing. But that's broken mechanics, it has little do with with his stats or typing. Simply make PP restoring berries not work with Recycle and it's fixed.

Metagross WITHOUT Mega is still OU. That's the tier most people WANT Pokémon to be. I don't get what you're complaining about. Yes, it has checks with wanting to avoid Shadow Ball or Knock Off, or other super-effective moves. Yet only 6 types are neutral to it. What the HECK are you complaining about? The vast, VAST majority of Pokémon have to worry about much more than that.

Oh, boo hoo, he gets hurt by Earthquake. He also has 130 base defense (regular, not mega, because his mega goes up to 150), so it's not like it's the end of the world. Just put something else in your team to counter Shadow Ball or Knock Off, or one of his very few counters. You're acting like it's a fighting game where each individual needs to be able to beat each other individual. But it's not, it's a team of 6. You point out Dragonite, but ignore that he loses 1/4 of his health any time he switches in with stealth rocks, which is on pretty much every team, which also breaks his Marvel Scale ability and usually puts him in range to die, especially since he doesn't resist all that much. Metagross, meanwhile, only takes 1/16.

But I honestly don't see the point in continuing. You're like the people who complained when Bayonetta got nerfed in Smash because she "only" had a 0-to-death combo, which was super easy to do and no one else could do that. It makes even less sense, because it's not like they were ONLY trying to nerf Bronzong and Metagross. Steel was so powerful that you just flat-out could not have them until like the middle of the game. It's not just about competitive, it's about in-game, too. Even a steel type with bad stats would be oppressive for a trainer, and broken for the player at the beginning of the game because of all of its resists. Now it's a little easier to include them, but still hard.

If you really can't see a problem with having double the resistances of every other type AND an immunity, then you're blind.

Actually I don't play smash 4 and we're not talking about smash bros.

However your inability to see how steel was functionally fine tells me that you've never used a steel pokemon in your life as you think a steel type is some sort of be all end all uber tier because it happens to withstand stealth rock and have high physical defenses. Surprise, rock and ground do the same thing.

Also, where am I saying that I want metagross to beat everything? That's something YOU are saying, not me. I'm pointing out how EASY it is to destroy a metagross BEFORE the steel nerf came in and how WORTHLESS all stee/psychic type pokemon are now that the nerf is in

Are you angry you can't poison it? Guess what, you can't earthquake flying types and you can't use electricity against ground types (no thunder wave) and ghost and normal types can't hit eachother, dragon doesn't work on fairy, and, and here is a shocker, psychic attacks don't work on dark types.

try having a team of pokemon that are all part steel in any gen prior to x/y and keep fighting the computer in the battle tower; you will see VERY quickly how steel was anything but overpowered.

I watched a metagross get two shot BY A BLISSEY. And before you ask, the Metagross hit it with hammer arm and DIDN'T OHKO it. It barely broke half hp.

Most of this tells me you are good at reading theories but have put practically nothing into actual practice.

Steel is kind of a double-edged sword for me.

Yeah, you get a lot of resistances and immunity to Poison, but that's by itself.

Dual types with Steel sometimes come with 4x weaknesses. Ferrothron, Scizor, Genesect, Forretress: all 4x weak to fire. Magnezone's entire evo line and Togedamaru 4x to ground. Alolan Sandshrew (I think?) and Alolan Sandslash: 4x weak to fighting.

The only REALLY decent dual Steel-type is Steel/Fairy, though only Kelfki, Mawile, and Magearna have that typing, Steel/Dragon, but only Dialga has that typing, and I would say Steel/Flying but, like with Dialga, only Skarmory has it.

I do like Steel, but I feel it doesn't mesh well with other typings since it has common weaknesses that only get worse when paired up.

I've only felt that it gave bonuses to the type it was pairing with, but yeah, it often created x4 weaknesses with pretty much any mixture. As I stated, steel/psychic was "pretty good" but you were vulnerable to a plethora of neutral strikes that would rip you apart.

And offensively, steel attacks have hardly been good against anything. They are good against rock, but most rock types have ground moves. They are good against ice, but most ice types are part water, and you never want to fight water with a steel.

All of these flaws are why i feel it's not fair to nerf steel because one pokemon bogged down a tournament.

You're forgetting Fairy.

Poison and Steel are more relevant now thanks to Fairy types.

Except most fairy types are dual types or have high special attack. As I stated earlier, the most common fairy is Gardevoir, who generally has shadow ball to cripple ghosts and other psychic types, and I pointed out how that would butcher most any steel type, especially any steel psychic.

Nobody is forgetting that steel/psychic were neutral, and while it was a problem, it wasn't an absolute death sentence back then.

And not being good against water and electric is just fine, it's not like steel was meant to block literally everything. Just having those two as neutral has never, at any point, been enough to render a steel type useless. Scizor still works well, Skarmory still works fine despite gaining two neutrals and being weak to electric. Ferro resists water and electric and still does its job even wither Dark/Ghost neutral. Mega Metagross is still scary even though it's weak to Sucker Punch now.

I really think you're over exaggerating the weakness of steel types.

I normally don't use Mega pokemon as I don't like using them as a crutch when the whole reason mega metagross exists is to counteract the nerfing Steel got, which is why i don't think about it.

I've just been used to using steel as a way to help bolster psychic types against natural threats like ghost and dark, which EVERY pokemon as attacks of. To find that i need a dark type or a fighting type to resist those moves is quite frustrating.

The typing of the three starters make me sooooo happy. Grass/Ghost, Fire/Dark and Water/Fairy are all pretty good typings. There have already existing pokemon with each of those types combos but most of them were never too great, Azumarill being the only good one I recall correctly (water/fairy) Here's hoping these three end up bein real nice to use!

I'm just happy they didn't make a third, or is it fourth? fire/fighting type.

Fourth. We've had Charizard (Fire/Flying), Typhlosion (Fire), Blaziken, Infernape, and Emboar (Fire/Fighting), and Delphox (Fire/Psychic). I personally wouldn't have minded too much if Incineroar was Fire/Fighting, but the fact that it is Fire/Dark and looks like a wrestler really reflects Japanese wrestling culture, and I love that XD

Incineroar looks a lot better in motion than when I first saw him

Actually not a fire/fighting, too

The lovely Cynthia has returned t us.

finally the name for my sexy wrestler<3

Holy crap, the last part of the announcement.

Red and Blue...*packs my shit*

Abandon your dreams now

Mmmm now show us there night evolution. I was told they share something with rokruff, and that's what I assume it is *though I suppose it's possible they have a unique z move*

There is no split evolution for them. If there was, they would have been shown.

I dunno. Might be keeping it a really good secret

Red...

Hngh....


Deez feelz...

Sun and Moon requires ALL of my hype now. >=D

I'm just miffed at the type swapping when i thought it'd be a grass/flying all the way through.

I'm still getting it and i'm sure I'll love it, i just need to get used to it.

BTW: I didn't watch the video, I don't want to see TOO much before game launch. Part of the enjoyment is exploring the world and I find it really silly they are showing off legendary encounters as well as the starters final forms.

I mean, I guess it's to counteract the leaks.

I also want to apologize. I know I come off as a whiner of some sort, but I have a pessimistic attitude. i don't mean to "take it out" in your journals and i'm sorry if I've bothered you in that aspect.

It turns out the reason Decidueye is part Ghost now is because its design is based off Stilt Owls.

Stilt Owls were native to Hawaii, but were hunted to extinction, hence the Ghost typing.

You really need to be a little more optimistic with things, man. It's okay to be pessimistic and have your own opinions, but having so much negativity and put it into those diatribes of yours, it's hard for me not to get upset. I'm the kind of guy who see good things in things that are hated by other. I just choose to say nothing as I feel it won't change anything.

I'm quite glad you've not chosen to ban me and will instead be willing to talk with me.

An extinct owl species? That's pretty sad.

Quietly yells at November 18th to get its ass over here now

OH NO RED AND GARY GOT HOT

I am honestly happy with all three of these results. My favourite is Popplio's line as I love how they have been designed and their typings are lovely. <3

Aloha Persian was a mistake.

Not at all. That giant beachball head will give it the strongest Headbutt and Skull Bash in the game :V

Huh, I thought we'd get another Fire-Fight type from how people perceived this Swat Kat, but hey Houndoom got some competition now

I'm definitely looking forward to getting Decidueye the most, looks so graceful as ever. I can say the same for Primarina (would love to hear it sing) <3

Incineroar looks cool, but not my choice. It'll also be good to face Blue and Red once again :3

At least we now know why this game has no gyms.

So, decidueye might legitimantly be my favourite starter now, and having ghost as a secondary type? Talk about out of nowhere, but i guess it makes sense, gotta make sure luchamon can always beat it!

Still not a fan of luchamon tho, the reason i dislike it is the same reason everone else seems to like it. It's so... simple looking.

Simple looking? I thought it was because it's standing on two legs.

naw, i joke about how all fire types are fire/fighting, but i don't really mind them. (i say that, as the only one of the three final fire/fighting evo's i like is emboar)

but yeah, the whole litten line just has a kind of... gen 1 look? and... "not being the biggest fan of gen1" is a nice way of putting it, i guess.