FA+
Shop
Mike Pence at the Theater...
9 years ago
...And why the Left still doesn't get it.
See, just because they weren't starting fires and breaking windows doesn't mean their speech was acceptable - the best can be said of it is that they perhaps didn't break any laws doing so (though that may not be the case, depending on the details; more below), and thus it was technically not legally actionable. That does not mean, however, that it was appropriate, good, or truthful. See, there's something called 'time and place'. Pence was not playing 'politician' there, he was just being a regular person wanting to watch a play. He likely paid to see it. He was not going to speak, and had no platform in which to do so; no way to address the problems people had with him in any meaningful way. In short, this was certainly NOT the time to shout and boo at him as he entered. There will be plenty of times to do that, either at press conferences or when he is doing Congressional work, etc. Just imagine if, instead, Obama or Biden had gone to a play of "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", and were boo'd by the audience and railed for their anti-Christian stances; the shrieks of 'RACISM' would still be going on to this day!
Even less appropriate - indeed, downright unprofessional - was the behavior of the cast. I keep hearing people say that the play was about diversity, but I'm looking into it and I'm not seeing it - certainly, 'diversity' does not come to mind when I hear the name "Alexander Hamilton".
Now, let's to a thought experiment; I've edited the little speech from the cast to Pence, so it would fit the same scenario with Obama.
The clear implication of this is that Obama is out to get Christians, and outright anti-Christian and seeking to harm Christians' inalienable rights and liberties. Likewise, the assertion against Pence was that he was out to get people of other races and homosexuals, as well as harm their inalienable rights and liberties - which, simply put, is not true. Let's ignore for a moment that Pence has no intention of doing any of that, while Obama has done EXACTLY that;
These are ACTORS, paid to ACT in a PLAY. People do not expect to be singled out when they go to any form of entertainment; at best, it was deceptive and scurrilous to pull that kind of stunt, assuming Pence or his team did not pay for a ticket and was invited. At worst (that is, if he paid for tickets, which was likely) this was an act of fraud. He paid to watch them act. It is true that they have free speech; but they sold their speech when they took the job and got on stage. By the same token that they are paid for their talent of speech, they cannot then use that speech against the one who paid for it. Nor can they accept other members of the audience acting out and verbally harassing other members of the crowd; those that do so need to be kicked out, as they are materially ruining the experience for others.
Oh, and don't get me started on the accusations of racism, sexism, and homophobia (implied, but still quite clear from their little speech); they were ridiculous before the election, and they're even more ridiculous now that the lefties have lost and shown just what kind of violent, intolerant bigots they are by rioting because their candidate didn't get elected.
Keep it up, lefties. I look forward to you winning us the next election with these kind of underhanded, tactless, and dishonest antics.
See, just because they weren't starting fires and breaking windows doesn't mean their speech was acceptable - the best can be said of it is that they perhaps didn't break any laws doing so (though that may not be the case, depending on the details; more below), and thus it was technically not legally actionable. That does not mean, however, that it was appropriate, good, or truthful. See, there's something called 'time and place'. Pence was not playing 'politician' there, he was just being a regular person wanting to watch a play. He likely paid to see it. He was not going to speak, and had no platform in which to do so; no way to address the problems people had with him in any meaningful way. In short, this was certainly NOT the time to shout and boo at him as he entered. There will be plenty of times to do that, either at press conferences or when he is doing Congressional work, etc. Just imagine if, instead, Obama or Biden had gone to a play of "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe", and were boo'd by the audience and railed for their anti-Christian stances; the shrieks of 'RACISM' would still be going on to this day!
Even less appropriate - indeed, downright unprofessional - was the behavior of the cast. I keep hearing people say that the play was about diversity, but I'm looking into it and I'm not seeing it - certainly, 'diversity' does not come to mind when I hear the name "Alexander Hamilton".
Now, let's to a thought experiment; I've edited the little speech from the cast to Pence, so it would fit the same scenario with Obama.
"Thank you so much for joining us tonight. You know, we had a guest in the audience this evening. And President Obama, I see you're walking out but I hope you will hear us just a few more moments. There's nothing to boo here ladies and gentlemen. There's nothing to boo here, we're all here sharing a story of love.
We have a message for you, sir. We hope that you will hear us out. And I encourage everybody to pull out your phones and tweet and post because this message needs to be spread far and wide, OK?
President Obama, we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us here at Hamilton: An American Musical, we really do. We, sir, we are the united America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us — our rights, our liberties, our way of life — or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us. All of us.
Again, we truly thank you for sharing this show. This wonderful American story told by a group of men [and] women of all different races, united in Christ."The clear implication of this is that Obama is out to get Christians, and outright anti-Christian and seeking to harm Christians' inalienable rights and liberties. Likewise, the assertion against Pence was that he was out to get people of other races and homosexuals, as well as harm their inalienable rights and liberties - which, simply put, is not true. Let's ignore for a moment that Pence has no intention of doing any of that, while Obama has done EXACTLY that;
These are ACTORS, paid to ACT in a PLAY. People do not expect to be singled out when they go to any form of entertainment; at best, it was deceptive and scurrilous to pull that kind of stunt, assuming Pence or his team did not pay for a ticket and was invited. At worst (that is, if he paid for tickets, which was likely) this was an act of fraud. He paid to watch them act. It is true that they have free speech; but they sold their speech when they took the job and got on stage. By the same token that they are paid for their talent of speech, they cannot then use that speech against the one who paid for it. Nor can they accept other members of the audience acting out and verbally harassing other members of the crowd; those that do so need to be kicked out, as they are materially ruining the experience for others.
Oh, and don't get me started on the accusations of racism, sexism, and homophobia (implied, but still quite clear from their little speech); they were ridiculous before the election, and they're even more ridiculous now that the lefties have lost and shown just what kind of violent, intolerant bigots they are by rioting because their candidate didn't get elected.
Keep it up, lefties. I look forward to you winning us the next election with these kind of underhanded, tactless, and dishonest antics.
I saw the video. I believe the cast of the Hamilton as well as even the audience were polite and respectful. The actor who played Hamilton went out of his way to be polite, doing his speech at the end of the play as everyone was walking out. That seems like a good unobtrusive time and place to soapbox, especially when it’s your house you’re doing it in.
And Obama is not anti-Christian, especially when you consider he was a member of a Christian church for many years and has never spoken against the doctrine of Christianity. This is not me apologizing for Obama, this is me expressing my disappointment in his lack of a backbone to speak out against Christianity.
And no, the audience was NOT respectful; they were booing him.
As for the cast; again, let's assume it was instead reversed, and it was a cast of conservative Christians delivering that message to Obama. You can see an equivalent example in my original post; would you consider that acceptable, or would it be a breech of contract with Obama? I don't; while I personally agree with the sentiment, I would have to reluctantly concede that doing such would be a violation of their contract with Obama.
As for Obama not being 'anti-Christian' - yes, he really is. He has enacted several pieces of legislation which punish Christians for basically refusing to participate in behavior they find immoral - that is, gay marriage, contraception, etc. He may call himself Christian, but his heart is far from Christ. The fact that the 'pastor' of his 'church' is basically a bigot who tries to wrap his personal ideology in Biblical passages to get it passed of as 'Christian' only makes it more despicable.
I watched the video, sure there were some boos, but most of it were cheers for the cast.
And my reaction would be the same if it were Obama in Pence’s shoes.
Enacting legislation in support of gay marriage and contraception is not anti-Christian, it’s pro-civil rights. Hell, there’s a passage in the bible that describes a ritual to perform and artificial miscarriage, ie an abortion, with terms and conditions, Numbers 5:11-31 The Test for an Unfaithful Wife. So saying contraception is anti-Christian is not biblically supported or at least it proves a contradiction in the bible.
And honestly, I kind of have to agree with you that Obama is not a Christian, or at least not as strong as he publicly claims. He doesn’t seem to spew the same Christian rhetoric the diehard fundamentalists do. At best, he’s a causal Christian like most Americans. But that’s just my unsupported opinion.
Regarding 'support of gay marriage' being 'pro-civil rights' - sorry, no. It is a civil right to be able to freely enter or not enter into contracts with your property; he has eroded this by extending the discrimination laws in this country to force people to enter into contracts they find morally reprehensible. This is NOT in favor of civil rights.
Regarding the passage in the Bible you cited - sorry, that's ridiculous. That is not an abortion; the dust of the tabernacle floor would not conceivably cause a woman to miscarry unless God actually chose to fortify it with a curse. In that case, it is God taking the child's life - and where man may not take the life of their fellow man, God may. Now, I disagree with the Catholic Church's position on contraception in the case of contraception, but they should by no means be forced to fund it.
If the business offers a service to the public, they must serve the public. They cannot arbitrarily deny the rights of the people to access to that service. Denying them this service is the definition of discrimination.
The dust could, and probably did, contain many pathogens, any of which could cause a severe enough illness in the mother to case the mother’s body to miscarry. Ancient cities back then were breeding grounds of disease as you had animals running in the streets, open sewers, and no knowledge of hygiene and sanitation.
By definition, a business offering service to the public except for the case of providing for gay wedding ceremonies is not offering services to the public. Moreover, you do not have the 'right' to access that place; to assume you do shows a sense of entitlement deserving of all possible scorn.
Regarding the dust - no. It's dust on the floor. As for the Jewish people being a 'breeding ground for pathogens' - HAHAHAHAAAAAA. HAH. They were the cleanest people I can imagine, and still are due to their cleanliness mandates in their religion; indeed, the dust of their tabernacle is probably cleaner than the dust on your own floor. I expect the dust was entirely safe to drink, barring some sort of very unlucky circumstances... But all of this is besides the point. The attitude was to put it into God's hands; not man's. It was a curse, not an act of medicine or the strike of a sword, that would take the child - an act of God, not the act of man.
I have every right to have equal access to any service offered to the public as well as every American in this country. This is not entitlement. This is equal opportunity. Freedom. If a business does not wish to serve gays, they are free to close their business and sell privately. No one is forcing them to stay open, but if they do choose to stay open and serve the public, they’d better serve everyone that wishes to partake of their services.
Okay, now I know you’re not being serious. I can’t imagine anyone being so stupid as to believe that random dust on the floor is safe to drink in a place where people congregate in a town with animals within walking distance during a time that lacked even basic sanitation. It’s not just the Jews who were filthy compared to the modern western world, everyone except the elite of the elite were filthy by our standards.
It would have been the disease the mother contracted or her own body that would kill the fetus, not any god. If you have evidence to the contrary, please present it.
Good Faith: In contract law, the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing is a general presumption that the parties to a contract will deal with each other honestly, fairly, and in good faith, so as to not destroy the right of the other party or parties to receive the benefits of the contract.
Mike Pence paid (and paid quite a bit) to enjoy that show; to be criticized in front of the entire assembly at the end is directly counter to his enjoyment thereof; the theater did this knowingly and deliberately for the purpose of furthering their political agenda; this is a violation of the 'good faith' portion implied in every contract.
Does that clear it up?
Regarding the dust on the floor; I'm reasonably certain it was safe to ingest in small quantities. They Jews are and were meticulously clean, and no unclean animals or people were allowed within the tabernacle. Moreover, it does not even say the woman is pregnant, specifically, in the original translation; more information can be found here:
http://christianity.stackexchange.c.....ioned-abortion
The best translation of the curse appears to be, "may thy thigh rot, and thy belly swell till it burst! may these cursed waters enter into thy belly, and, being swelled therewith, may thy thigh putrefy!". It was a curse designed to both achieve justice for a man wronged and to heal the reputation and relationship of an innocent woman; for if she dies (and the curse was meant to kill), she was guilty by the hand of God rather than the hand of Man, but if she lived then she was affirmed as faithful before all.
Regarding 'equal access' - you do NOT have the right to 'equal access' in the sense that you can force anyone who is offering a service to work with you if they do not want to. It is an entitled attitude to think you can. As for 'no one is forcing them to stay open' - so, what, you think they must close down if they won't serve you? That's ridiculous. Just because they won't engage in an economic activity with you doesn't give you the right to force them not to engage in similar economic activities with anyone else.
Moreover, you show yourself as a little tyrant for thinking so; that is, you believe you can bring the full and deadly force of government against someone just because they will not perform services for you. You are willing to ultimately have someone shot because they refuse to serve you; this sort of attitude is entitled and evil, and I have nothing further to say to the likes of you.